On Saturday, July 15, 2023 at 8:26:55 AM UTC-7, Will Dockery wrote:
> On Saturday, July 15, 2023 at 8:51:59 AM UTC-4, Rachel wrote:
> > On Saturday, July 15, 2023 at 3:19:29 AM UTC-7, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > On Saturday, July 15, 2023 at 1:30:34 AM UTC, Rachel wrote:
> > > > On Friday, July 14, 2023 at 5:15:59 AM UTC-7, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > >> On Thursday, July 6, 2023 at 5:53:46 PM UTC-4, Rachel wrote:
> > > > >> On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 10:39:08 PM UTC-7, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > >> On Thursday, July 6, 2023 at 12:16:27 AM UTC-4, Rachel wrote:
> > > > > > >> On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 8:59:58 PM UTC-7, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > >> On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 9:32:37 PM UTC-4, Rachel wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> On Tuesday, July 4, 2023 at 9:25:17 PM UTC-7, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tuesday, July 4, 2023 at 5:08:38 PM UTC-4, Rachel wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > real life doll
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > a little girl
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > plays with her dolly
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > her very own baby
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > to keep her company
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > she holds her
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > carries her around
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > sleeps with her
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > they hug and cuddle
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > maybe even feeds her
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > some dolls even
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > eat and drink
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > then pee and poop...
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > yes, believe it or not
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > it’s really true
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > you can feed them purées
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > and baby bottles of juice,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > then change their diapers
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > when they wet and drop a deuce
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > everybody pees and poops
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > so what was i so uptight about?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > it seems we’re all hollow tubes
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > made to act, eat, and drink
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > put in some food and some liquid
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > then out comes the waste...
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > what’s a person to think?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > who are we, really
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > does anybody know?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > where are we, really?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > where do we go...
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > when we finally leave our bodies
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > this thing they call soul?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > are we just beings
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > in the material world,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > shadowy spirits unseen?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ghosts flying ‘round
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > inside a machine?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > our bodies all sharing
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > one communally-planned dream
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > of hosts floating freely
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > voices dancing on strings?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > where does the soul go
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > after we die?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > i don’t know much
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > about any of these things...
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > i never had a dolly
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > who could dance or sing
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > certainly never one
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > who heeded nature’s call...
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > i never really had
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > a doll of any kind at all
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > but i wasn’t missing anything
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > i never wanted one...
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > to me they didn’t seem
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > like they would be all that much fun
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > i had a few books
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > and some records
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > which i somehow collected,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > and my birds, and my fishes
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > and a few little wishes...
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > and now
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > i don’t have a baby, either
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > my dog is dead
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > i live alone
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > feed myself
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > and wipe my own ass...
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > at least for now
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > as best i can
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > yeah, it’s a real gas
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > yes, i don’t have
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > my very own baby,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > perhaps that was even
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > a good thing...maybe
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > my cousin got hit by a car
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > two cousins, in fact
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > in two separate accidents
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > yet both were still hit
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > one of them lived
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > the other one died
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > i even had a cousin
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > who committed suicide
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > i never played with a dolly
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > what kind of plan is this
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > when judas betrayed jesus
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > he did so with a kiss
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > so i just have to stop and wonder,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > all about me,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > how things might have turned out
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > differently,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > if i had had a doll
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > who poops and pees?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > maybe i would have been more prepared
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > and more willing to play along
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > where the goal of the brain is reproduction,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > in this planet’s never-ending song
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > then again, maybe not
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > it’s probably all just a crock
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ask hitler what he thought
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > when he looked around, too
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > and asked himself, what am i to do
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > with all of these jews?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > i guess i, myself,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > just don’t see...
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > the point of it all,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > this point to be...
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > where everyone plays along
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > and is all but the same
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > making more and more babies
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > human links in a chain
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > never stopping to ask
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > who designed this whole game
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > maybe i’m on the outside
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > of whatever side they’re all on…
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > where every day is a struggle
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > and my troubles weigh a ton
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > what do little girls do
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > with their babies
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > when they grow up?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jolene
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I enjoyed this in stretches, I was appropriately disturbed in most of the right places.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > The duality, yin and yang, and life unkind almost random.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Reminds me of Carl Sandburg in his longer winded moments, which is a good thing, and, of all things, some other early efforts at written/spoken poetry, 1976-77.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for posting, Rachel, as always, thought provoking.
> > > > > > > > > > > > May I asked which parts disturbed you, and why? Just curious. (not immediately obvious to me *at_all!*)
> > > > > > > > > > > Hello again Rachel, I'll go over the poem point by point soon, when time permits.
> > > > > > > > > > jeez wow....you've got me antsy now, i don't think the poem deserves it which makes me think your comments are going to be more insightful than the intention behind the poem itself!!! :)
> > > > > > > > > Do you remember Philo's critique of your poem the original thread?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > A few of my thoughts are derived from his observations.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The disturbing elements come from the simple acceptance of the duality of life and the multiverse.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Could be I've been watching too many Marvel Comics films.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I didn't remember either too well, but re-reading the thread before working with it jogged my memory! i like philo's poems! and i remember he posted a video of his wife's (or partner's) paintings, i THINK !?!!??!? iinm...? something...? an exhibit perhaps? he had good true life stories too, IINM. i'm sorry. my memory is finicky. it only gloms onto certain things, and is not that sharp for later life experiences, except perhaps for me being a one-eyed midget, and that's not necessarily (???) much of an attractive quality. oh well. :(
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > if only i could exercise, too. i am severely injured. :-/// crud. :-(((
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Here is Philo's Facebook page, he's often got something interesting going:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > https://www.facebook.com/philip.kassner?mibextid=ZbWKwL
> > > > > > i'm not on facebook
> > > > > >
> > > > > > but philo, if you're still hanging around, i was wondering what you think of my categorical bad poem now?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > did i bump it out of the dustbin of cultural oblivion? or at least get it taken off the same shelf as rebecca black's friday song?
> > > > > ps seriously anyone....michael, ash, edward, will, nancygene, etc....(george etc...)
> > > > >
> > > > > which ending do you like better? the little girls one or the you one?
> > > > >
> > > > > i don't know WHY, but i would just like to make this as good as it can be. for some reason i keep reading it over and over, it really grabs me.
> > > > >
> > > > > TIA???
> > > > i meant george dance, since zod is apparently back in jail
> > > No, Zod isn't in jail, that's a lie started by the trolls here.
> > >
> > > HTH and HAND.
> > i'm actually think the initial change was a good idea
> >
> > what do liitle girls do
> > with their babies
> > when they grow up?
> > it's just....i can't imagine anyone wanting to waste their time meditating upon that reflection.
> A pretty important topic, really.

On Saturday, July 15, 2023 at 9:30:00 AM UTC-7, Will Dockery wrote:
> On Saturday, July 15, 2023 at 1:11:10 AM UTC-4, Rachel wrote:
> > On Friday, July 14, 2023 at 5:15:59 AM UTC-7, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > On Thursday, July 6, 2023 at 5:53:46 PM UTC-4, Rachel wrote:
> > > > On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 10:39:08 PM UTC-7, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > On Thursday, July 6, 2023 at 12:16:27 AM UTC-4, Rachel wrote:
> > > > > > On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 8:59:58 PM UTC-7, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 9:32:37 PM UTC-4, Rachel wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Tuesday, July 4, 2023 at 9:25:17 PM UTC-7, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On Tuesday, July 4, 2023 at 5:08:38 PM UTC-4, Rachel wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > real life doll
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > a little girl
> > > > > > > > > > plays with her dolly
> > > > > > > > > > her very own baby
> > > > > > > > > > to keep her company
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > she holds her
> > > > > > > > > > carries her around
> > > > > > > > > > sleeps with her
> > > > > > > > > > they hug and cuddle
> > > > > > > > > > maybe even feeds her
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > some dolls even
> > > > > > > > > > eat and drink
> > > > > > > > > > then pee and poop...
> > > > > > > > > > yes, believe it or not
> > > > > > > > > > it’s really true
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > you can feed them purées
> > > > > > > > > > and baby bottles of juice,
> > > > > > > > > > then change their diapers
> > > > > > > > > > when they wet and drop a deuce
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > everybody pees and poops
> > > > > > > > > > so what was i so uptight about?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > it seems we’re all hollow tubes
> > > > > > > > > > made to act, eat, and drink
> > > > > > > > > > put in some food and some liquid
> > > > > > > > > > then out comes the waste...
> > > > > > > > > > what’s a person to think?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > who are we, really
> > > > > > > > > > does anybody know?
> > > > > > > > > > where are we, really?
> > > > > > > > > > where do we go...
> > > > > > > > > > when we finally leave our bodies
> > > > > > > > > > this thing they call soul?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > are we just beings
> > > > > > > > > > in the material world,
> > > > > > > > > > shadowy spirits unseen?
> > > > > > > > > > ghosts flying ‘round
> > > > > > > > > > inside a machine?
> > > > > > > > > > our bodies all sharing
> > > > > > > > > > one communally-planned dream
> > > > > > > > > > of hosts floating freely
> > > > > > > > > > voices dancing on strings?
> > > > > > > > > > where does the soul go
> > > > > > > > > > after we die?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > i don’t know much
> > > > > > > > > > about any of these things...
> > > > > > > > > > i never had a dolly
> > > > > > > > > > who could dance or sing
> > > > > > > > > > certainly never one
> > > > > > > > > > who heeded nature’s call...
> > > > > > > > > > i never really had
> > > > > > > > > > a doll of any kind at all
> > > > > > > > > > but i wasn’t missing anything
> > > > > > > > > > i never wanted one...
> > > > > > > > > > to me they didn’t seem
> > > > > > > > > > like they would be all that much fun
> > > > > > > > > > i had a few books
> > > > > > > > > > and some records
> > > > > > > > > > which i somehow collected,
> > > > > > > > > > and my birds, and my fishes
> > > > > > > > > > and a few little wishes...
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > and now
> > > > > > > > > > i don’t have a baby, either
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > my dog is dead
> > > > > > > > > > i live alone
> > > > > > > > > > feed myself
> > > > > > > > > > and wipe my own ass...
> > > > > > > > > > at least for now
> > > > > > > > > > as best i can
> > > > > > > > > > yeah, it’s a real gas
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > yes, i don’t have
> > > > > > > > > > my very own baby,
> > > > > > > > > > perhaps that was even
> > > > > > > > > > a good thing...maybe
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > my cousin got hit by a car
> > > > > > > > > > two cousins, in fact
> > > > > > > > > > in two separate accidents
> > > > > > > > > > yet both were still hit
> > > > > > > > > > one of them lived
> > > > > > > > > > the other one died
> > > > > > > > > > i even had a cousin
> > > > > > > > > > who committed suicide
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > i never played with a dolly
> > > > > > > > > > what kind of plan is this
> > > > > > > > > > when judas betrayed jesus
> > > > > > > > > > he did so with a kiss
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > so i just have to stop and wonder,
> > > > > > > > > > all about me,
> > > > > > > > > > how things might have turned out
> > > > > > > > > > differently,
> > > > > > > > > > if i had had a doll
> > > > > > > > > > who poops and pees?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > maybe i would have been more prepared
> > > > > > > > > > and more willing to play along
> > > > > > > > > > where the goal of the brain is reproduction,
> > > > > > > > > > in this planet’s never-ending song
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > then again, maybe not
> > > > > > > > > > it’s probably all just a crock
> > > > > > > > > > ask hitler what he thought
> > > > > > > > > > when he looked around, too
> > > > > > > > > > and asked himself, what am i to do
> > > > > > > > > > with all of these jews?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > i guess i, myself,
> > > > > > > > > > just don’t see...
> > > > > > > > > > the point of it all,
> > > > > > > > > > this point to be...
> > > > > > > > > > where everyone plays along
> > > > > > > > > > and is all but the same
> > > > > > > > > > making more and more babies
> > > > > > > > > > human links in a chain
> > > > > > > > > > never stopping to ask
> > > > > > > > > > who designed this whole game
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > maybe i’m on the outside
> > > > > > > > > > of whatever side they’re all on…
> > > > > > > > > > where every day is a struggle
> > > > > > > > > > and my troubles weigh a ton
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > what do little girls do
> > > > > > > > > > with their babies
> > > > > > > > > > when they grow up?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Jolene
> > > > > > > > > I enjoyed this in stretches, I was appropriately disturbed in most of the right places.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The duality, yin and yang, and life unkind almost random.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Reminds me of Carl Sandburg in his longer winded moments, which is a good thing, and, of all things, some other early efforts at written/spoken poetry, 1976-77.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Thanks for posting, Rachel, as always, thought provoking.
> > > > > > > > May I asked which parts disturbed you, and why? Just curious. (not immediately obvious to me *at_all!*)
> > > > > > > Hello again Rachel, I'll go over the poem point by point soon, when time permits.
> > > > > > jeez wow....you've got me antsy now, i don't think the poem deserves it which makes me think your comments are going to be more insightful than the intention behind the poem itself!!! :)
> > > > > Do you remember Philo's critique of your poem the original thread?
> > > > >
> > > > > A few of my thoughts are derived from his observations.
> > > > >
> > > > > The disturbing elements come from the simple acceptance of the duality of life and the multiverse.
> > > > >
> > > > > Could be I've been watching too many Marvel Comics films.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > I didn't remember either too well, but re-reading the thread before working with it jogged my memory! i like philo's poems! and i remember he posted a video of his wife's (or partner's) paintings, i THINK !?!!??!? iinm...? something...? an exhibit perhaps? he had good true life stories too, IINM. i'm sorry. my memory is finicky. it only gloms onto certain things, and is not that sharp for later life experiences, except perhaps for me being a one-eyed midget, and that's not necessarily (???) much of an attractive quality. oh well. :(
> > > >
> > > > if only i could exercise, too. i am severely injured. :-/// crud. :-(((
> > >
> > > Here is Philo's Facebook page, he's often got something interesting going:
> > >
> > > https://www.facebook.com/philip.kassner?mibextid=ZbWKwL
> > i'm not on facebook
> >
> > but philo, if you're still hanging around, i was wondering what you think of my categorical bad poem now?
> >
> > did i bump it out of the dustbin of cultural oblivion? or at least get it taken off the same shelf as rebecca black's friday song?
> I can Ping Philo if you want me to.

On Saturday, July 15, 2023 at 6:18:10 PM UTC-7, Rachel wrote:
> On Saturday, July 15, 2023 at 9:30:00 AM UTC-7, Will Dockery wrote:
> > On Saturday, July 15, 2023 at 1:11:10 AM UTC-4, Rachel wrote:
> > > On Friday, July 14, 2023 at 5:15:59 AM UTC-7, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > On Thursday, July 6, 2023 at 5:53:46 PM UTC-4, Rachel wrote:
> > > > > On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 10:39:08 PM UTC-7, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > On Thursday, July 6, 2023 at 12:16:27 AM UTC-4, Rachel wrote:
> > > > > > > On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 8:59:58 PM UTC-7, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 9:32:37 PM UTC-4, Rachel wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On Tuesday, July 4, 2023 at 9:25:17 PM UTC-7, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > On Tuesday, July 4, 2023 at 5:08:38 PM UTC-4, Rachel wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > real life doll
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > a little girl
> > > > > > > > > > > plays with her dolly
> > > > > > > > > > > her very own baby
> > > > > > > > > > > to keep her company
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > she holds her
> > > > > > > > > > > carries her around
> > > > > > > > > > > sleeps with her
> > > > > > > > > > > they hug and cuddle
> > > > > > > > > > > maybe even feeds her
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > some dolls even
> > > > > > > > > > > eat and drink
> > > > > > > > > > > then pee and poop...
> > > > > > > > > > > yes, believe it or not
> > > > > > > > > > > it’s really true
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > you can feed them purées
> > > > > > > > > > > and baby bottles of juice,
> > > > > > > > > > > then change their diapers
> > > > > > > > > > > when they wet and drop a deuce
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > everybody pees and poops
> > > > > > > > > > > so what was i so uptight about?
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > it seems we’re all hollow tubes
> > > > > > > > > > > made to act, eat, and drink
> > > > > > > > > > > put in some food and some liquid
> > > > > > > > > > > then out comes the waste...
> > > > > > > > > > > what’s a person to think?
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > who are we, really
> > > > > > > > > > > does anybody know?
> > > > > > > > > > > where are we, really?
> > > > > > > > > > > where do we go...
> > > > > > > > > > > when we finally leave our bodies
> > > > > > > > > > > this thing they call soul?
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > are we just beings
> > > > > > > > > > > in the material world,
> > > > > > > > > > > shadowy spirits unseen?
> > > > > > > > > > > ghosts flying ‘round
> > > > > > > > > > > inside a machine?
> > > > > > > > > > > our bodies all sharing
> > > > > > > > > > > one communally-planned dream
> > > > > > > > > > > of hosts floating freely
> > > > > > > > > > > voices dancing on strings?
> > > > > > > > > > > where does the soul go
> > > > > > > > > > > after we die?
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > i don’t know much
> > > > > > > > > > > about any of these things...
> > > > > > > > > > > i never had a dolly
> > > > > > > > > > > who could dance or sing
> > > > > > > > > > > certainly never one
> > > > > > > > > > > who heeded nature’s call...
> > > > > > > > > > > i never really had
> > > > > > > > > > > a doll of any kind at all
> > > > > > > > > > > but i wasn’t missing anything
> > > > > > > > > > > i never wanted one...
> > > > > > > > > > > to me they didn’t seem
> > > > > > > > > > > like they would be all that much fun
> > > > > > > > > > > i had a few books
> > > > > > > > > > > and some records
> > > > > > > > > > > which i somehow collected,
> > > > > > > > > > > and my birds, and my fishes
> > > > > > > > > > > and a few little wishes...
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > and now
> > > > > > > > > > > i don’t have a baby, either
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > my dog is dead
> > > > > > > > > > > i live alone
> > > > > > > > > > > feed myself
> > > > > > > > > > > and wipe my own ass...
> > > > > > > > > > > at least for now
> > > > > > > > > > > as best i can
> > > > > > > > > > > yeah, it’s a real gas
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > yes, i don’t have
> > > > > > > > > > > my very own baby,
> > > > > > > > > > > perhaps that was even
> > > > > > > > > > > a good thing...maybe
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > my cousin got hit by a car
> > > > > > > > > > > two cousins, in fact
> > > > > > > > > > > in two separate accidents
> > > > > > > > > > > yet both were still hit
> > > > > > > > > > > one of them lived
> > > > > > > > > > > the other one died
> > > > > > > > > > > i even had a cousin
> > > > > > > > > > > who committed suicide
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > i never played with a dolly
> > > > > > > > > > > what kind of plan is this
> > > > > > > > > > > when judas betrayed jesus
> > > > > > > > > > > he did so with a kiss
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > so i just have to stop and wonder,
> > > > > > > > > > > all about me,
> > > > > > > > > > > how things might have turned out
> > > > > > > > > > > differently,
> > > > > > > > > > > if i had had a doll
> > > > > > > > > > > who poops and pees?
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > maybe i would have been more prepared
> > > > > > > > > > > and more willing to play along
> > > > > > > > > > > where the goal of the brain is reproduction,
> > > > > > > > > > > in this planet’s never-ending song
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > then again, maybe not
> > > > > > > > > > > it’s probably all just a crock
> > > > > > > > > > > ask hitler what he thought
> > > > > > > > > > > when he looked around, too
> > > > > > > > > > > and asked himself, what am i to do
> > > > > > > > > > > with all of these jews?
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > i guess i, myself,
> > > > > > > > > > > just don’t see...
> > > > > > > > > > > the point of it all,
> > > > > > > > > > > this point to be...
> > > > > > > > > > > where everyone plays along
> > > > > > > > > > > and is all but the same
> > > > > > > > > > > making more and more babies
> > > > > > > > > > > human links in a chain
> > > > > > > > > > > never stopping to ask
> > > > > > > > > > > who designed this whole game
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > maybe i’m on the outside
> > > > > > > > > > > of whatever side they’re all on…
> > > > > > > > > > > where every day is a struggle
> > > > > > > > > > > and my troubles weigh a ton
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > what do little girls do
> > > > > > > > > > > with their babies
> > > > > > > > > > > when they grow up?
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Jolene
> > > > > > > > > > I enjoyed this in stretches, I was appropriately disturbed in most of the right places.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > The duality, yin and yang, and life unkind almost random.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Reminds me of Carl Sandburg in his longer winded moments, which is a good thing, and, of all things, some other early efforts at written/spoken poetry, 1976-77.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Thanks for posting, Rachel, as always, thought provoking.
> > > > > > > > > May I asked which parts disturbed you, and why? Just curious. (not immediately obvious to me *at_all!*)
> > > > > > > > Hello again Rachel, I'll go over the poem point by point soon, when time permits.
> > > > > > > jeez wow....you've got me antsy now, i don't think the poem deserves it which makes me think your comments are going to be more insightful than the intention behind the poem itself!!! :)
> > > > > > Do you remember Philo's critique of your poem the original thread?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > A few of my thoughts are derived from his observations.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The disturbing elements come from the simple acceptance of the duality of life and the multiverse.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Could be I've been watching too many Marvel Comics films.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I didn't remember either too well, but re-reading the thread before working with it jogged my memory! i like philo's poems! and i remember he posted a video of his wife's (or partner's) paintings, i THINK !?!!??!? iinm...? something...? an exhibit perhaps? he had good true life stories too, IINM. i'm sorry. my memory is finicky. it only gloms onto certain things, and is not that sharp for later life experiences, except perhaps for me being a one-eyed midget, and that's not necessarily (???) much of an attractive quality. oh well. :(
> > > > >
> > > > > if only i could exercise, too. i am severely injured. :-/// crud. :-(((
> > > >
> > > > Here is Philo's Facebook page, he's often got something interesting going:
> > > >
> > > > https://www.facebook.com/philip.kassner?mibextid=ZbWKwL
> > > i'm not on facebook
> > >
> > > but philo, if you're still hanging around, i was wondering what you think of my categorical bad poem now?
> > >
> > > did i bump it out of the dustbin of cultural oblivion? or at least get it taken off the same shelf as rebecca black's friday song?
> > I can Ping Philo if you want me to.
> nah...if he wants to come find my sh*t here, then respond, well, he knows where to look.

Rachel wrote:
> On Saturday, July 15, 2023 at 9:30:00 AM UTC-7, Will Dockery wrote:
> > On Saturday, July 15, 2023 at 1:11:10 AM UTC-4, Rachel wrote:
> > > On Friday, July 14, 2023 at 5:15:59 AM UTC-7, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > On Thursday, July 6, 2023 at 5:53:46 PM UTC-4, Rachel wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > real life doll
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > a little girl
> > > > > > > > > > > > plays with her dolly
> > > > > > > > > > > > her very own baby
> > > > > > > > > > > > to keep her company
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > she holds her
> > > > > > > > > > > > carries her around
> > > > > > > > > > > > sleeps with her
> > > > > > > > > > > > they hug and cuddle
> > > > > > > > > > > > maybe even feeds her
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > some dolls even
> > > > > > > > > > > > eat and drink
> > > > > > > > > > > > then pee and poop...
> > > > > > > > > > > > yes, believe it or not
> > > > > > > > > > > > it’s really true
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > you can feed them purées
> > > > > > > > > > > > and baby bottles of juice,
> > > > > > > > > > > > then change their diapers
> > > > > > > > > > > > when they wet and drop a deuce
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > everybody pees and poops
> > > > > > > > > > > > so what was i so uptight about?
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > it seems we’re all hollow tubes
> > > > > > > > > > > > made to act, eat, and drink
> > > > > > > > > > > > put in some food and some liquid
> > > > > > > > > > > > then out comes the waste...
> > > > > > > > > > > > what’s a person to think?
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > who are we, really
> > > > > > > > > > > > does anybody know?
> > > > > > > > > > > > where are we, really?
> > > > > > > > > > > > where do we go...
> > > > > > > > > > > > when we finally leave our bodies
> > > > > > > > > > > > this thing they call soul?
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > are we just beings
> > > > > > > > > > > > in the material world,
> > > > > > > > > > > > shadowy spirits unseen?
> > > > > > > > > > > > ghosts flying ‘round
> > > > > > > > > > > > inside a machine?
> > > > > > > > > > > > our bodies all sharing
> > > > > > > > > > > > one communally-planned dream
> > > > > > > > > > > > of hosts floating freely
> > > > > > > > > > > > voices dancing on strings?
> > > > > > > > > > > > where does the soul go
> > > > > > > > > > > > after we die?
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > i don’t know much
> > > > > > > > > > > > about any of these things...
> > > > > > > > > > > > i never had a dolly
> > > > > > > > > > > > who could dance or sing
> > > > > > > > > > > > certainly never one
> > > > > > > > > > > > who heeded nature’s call...
> > > > > > > > > > > > i never really had
> > > > > > > > > > > > a doll of any kind at all
> > > > > > > > > > > > but i wasn’t missing anything
> > > > > > > > > > > > i never wanted one...
> > > > > > > > > > > > to me they didn’t seem
> > > > > > > > > > > > like they would be all that much fun
> > > > > > > > > > > > i had a few books
> > > > > > > > > > > > and some records
> > > > > > > > > > > > which i somehow collected,
> > > > > > > > > > > > and my birds, and my fishes
> > > > > > > > > > > > and a few little wishes...
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > and now
> > > > > > > > > > > > i don’t have a baby, either
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > my dog is dead
> > > > > > > > > > > > i live alone
> > > > > > > > > > > > feed myself
> > > > > > > > > > > > and wipe my own ass...
> > > > > > > > > > > > at least for now
> > > > > > > > > > > > as best i can
> > > > > > > > > > > > yeah, it’s a real gas
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > yes, i don’t have
> > > > > > > > > > > > my very own baby,
> > > > > > > > > > > > perhaps that was even
> > > > > > > > > > > > a good thing...maybe
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > my cousin got hit by a car
> > > > > > > > > > > > two cousins, in fact
> > > > > > > > > > > > in two separate accidents
> > > > > > > > > > > > yet both were still hit
> > > > > > > > > > > > one of them lived
> > > > > > > > > > > > the other one died
> > > > > > > > > > > > i even had a cousin
> > > > > > > > > > > > who committed suicide
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > i never played with a dolly
> > > > > > > > > > > > what kind of plan is this
> > > > > > > > > > > > when judas betrayed jesus
> > > > > > > > > > > > he did so with a kiss
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > so i just have to stop and wonder,
> > > > > > > > > > > > all about me,
> > > > > > > > > > > > how things might have turned out
> > > > > > > > > > > > differently,
> > > > > > > > > > > > if i had had a doll
> > > > > > > > > > > > who poops and pees?
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > maybe i would have been more prepared
> > > > > > > > > > > > and more willing to play along
> > > > > > > > > > > > where the goal of the brain is reproduction,
> > > > > > > > > > > > in this planet’s never-ending song
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > then again, maybe not
> > > > > > > > > > > > it’s probably all just a crock
> > > > > > > > > > > > ask hitler what he thought
> > > > > > > > > > > > when he looked around, too
> > > > > > > > > > > > and asked himself, what am i to do
> > > > > > > > > > > > with all of these jews?
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > i guess i, myself,
> > > > > > > > > > > > just don’t see...
> > > > > > > > > > > > the point of it all,
> > > > > > > > > > > > this point to be...
> > > > > > > > > > > > where everyone plays along
> > > > > > > > > > > > and is all but the same
> > > > > > > > > > > > making more and more babies
> > > > > > > > > > > > human links in a chain
> > > > > > > > > > > > never stopping to ask
> > > > > > > > > > > > who designed this whole game
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > maybe i’m on the outside
> > > > > > > > > > > > of whatever side they’re all on…
> > > > > > > > > > > > where every day is a struggle
> > > > > > > > > > > > and my troubles weigh a ton
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > what do little girls do
> > > > > > > > > > > > with their babies
> > > > > > > > > > > > when they grow up?
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Jolene
> > > > > > > > > > > I enjoyed this in stretches, I was appropriately disturbed in most of the right places.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > The duality, yin and yang, and life unkind almost random.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Reminds me of Carl Sandburg in his longer winded moments, which is a good thing, and, of all things, some other early efforts at written/spoken poetry, 1976-77.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for posting, Rachel, as always, thought provoking.
> > > > > > > > > > May I asked which parts disturbed you, and why? Just curious. (not immediately obvious to me *at_all!*)
> > > > > > > > > Hello again Rachel, I'll go over the poem point by point soon, when time permits.
> > > > > > > > jeez wow....you've got me antsy now, i don't think the poem deserves it which makes me think your comments are going to be more insightful than the intention behind the poem itself!!! :)
> > > > > > > Do you remember Philo's critique of your poem the original thread?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > A few of my thoughts are derived from his observations.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The disturbing elements come from the simple acceptance of the duality of life and the multiverse.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Could be I've been watching too many Marvel Comics films.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I didn't remember either too well, but re-reading the thread before working with it jogged my memory! i like philo's poems! and i remember he posted a video of his wife's (or partner's) paintings, i THINK !?!!??!? iinm...? something...? an exhibit perhaps? he had good true life stories too, IINM. i'm sorry. my memory is finicky. it only gloms onto certain things, and is not that sharp for later life experiences, except perhaps for me being a one-eyed midget, and that's not necessarily (???) much of an attractive quality. oh well. :(
> > > > > >
> > > > > > if only i could exercise, too. i am severely injured. :-/// crud. :-(((
> > > > >
> > > > > Here is Philo's Facebook page, he's often got something interesting going:
> > > > >
> > > > > https://www.facebook.com/philip.kassner?mibextid=ZbWKwL
> > > > i'm not on facebook
> > > >
> > > > but philo, if you're still hanging around, i was wondering what you think of my categorical bad poem now?
> > > >
> > > > did i bump it out of the dustbin of cultural oblivion? or at least get it taken off the same shelf as rebecca black's friday song?
> > > I can Ping Philo if you want me to.
> > nah...if he wants to come find my sh*t here, then respond, well, he knows where to look.
> but thanks, tho' !

In article <014dfb73-5d7c-41a6-9506-e5f70b0b680en@googlegroups.com>, vhugofan@gmail.com says...
> But hi there, Rachel..!
>
beware of her venereal warts, asshat

In article <444eb707-180d-40b2-85ca-d7da863f5041n@googlegroups.com>, goldarachel@gmail.com says...
>
> On Sunday, July 16, 2023 at 10:23:38 AM UTC-7, % wrote:
> > In article <014dfb73-5d7c-41a6...@googlegroups.com>, vhug...@gmail.com says...
> > > But hi there, Rachel..!
> > >
> > beware of her venereal warts, asshat
>
> i only had one once
>
> i wonder who gave it to me, way back when ?
>
> or how it got there ?
>
>
skank

On Saturday, July 15, 2023 at 6:18:39 PM UTC-7, Rachel wrote:
> On Saturday, July 15, 2023 at 6:18:10 PM UTC-7, Rachel wrote:
> > On Saturday, July 15, 2023 at 9:30:00 AM UTC-7, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > On Saturday, July 15, 2023 at 1:11:10 AM UTC-4, Rachel wrote:
> > > > On Friday, July 14, 2023 at 5:15:59 AM UTC-7, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > On Thursday, July 6, 2023 at 5:53:46 PM UTC-4, Rachel wrote:
> > > > > > On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 10:39:08 PM UTC-7, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > On Thursday, July 6, 2023 at 12:16:27 AM UTC-4, Rachel wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 8:59:58 PM UTC-7, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 9:32:37 PM UTC-4, Rachel wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > On Tuesday, July 4, 2023 at 9:25:17 PM UTC-7, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > On Tuesday, July 4, 2023 at 5:08:38 PM UTC-4, Rachel wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > real life doll
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > a little girl
> > > > > > > > > > > > plays with her dolly
> > > > > > > > > > > > her very own baby
> > > > > > > > > > > > to keep her company
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > she holds her
> > > > > > > > > > > > carries her around
> > > > > > > > > > > > sleeps with her
> > > > > > > > > > > > they hug and cuddle
> > > > > > > > > > > > maybe even feeds her
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > some dolls even
> > > > > > > > > > > > eat and drink
> > > > > > > > > > > > then pee and poop...
> > > > > > > > > > > > yes, believe it or not
> > > > > > > > > > > > it’s really true
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > you can feed them purées
> > > > > > > > > > > > and baby bottles of juice,
> > > > > > > > > > > > then change their diapers
> > > > > > > > > > > > when they wet and drop a deuce
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > everybody pees and poops
> > > > > > > > > > > > so what was i so uptight about?
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > it seems we’re all hollow tubes
> > > > > > > > > > > > made to act, eat, and drink
> > > > > > > > > > > > put in some food and some liquid
> > > > > > > > > > > > then out comes the waste...
> > > > > > > > > > > > what’s a person to think?
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > who are we, really
> > > > > > > > > > > > does anybody know?
> > > > > > > > > > > > where are we, really?
> > > > > > > > > > > > where do we go...
> > > > > > > > > > > > when we finally leave our bodies
> > > > > > > > > > > > this thing they call soul?
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > are we just beings
> > > > > > > > > > > > in the material world,
> > > > > > > > > > > > shadowy spirits unseen?
> > > > > > > > > > > > ghosts flying ‘round
> > > > > > > > > > > > inside a machine?
> > > > > > > > > > > > our bodies all sharing
> > > > > > > > > > > > one communally-planned dream
> > > > > > > > > > > > of hosts floating freely
> > > > > > > > > > > > voices dancing on strings?
> > > > > > > > > > > > where does the soul go
> > > > > > > > > > > > after we die?
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > i don’t know much
> > > > > > > > > > > > about any of these things...
> > > > > > > > > > > > i never had a dolly
> > > > > > > > > > > > who could dance or sing
> > > > > > > > > > > > certainly never one
> > > > > > > > > > > > who heeded nature’s call...
> > > > > > > > > > > > i never really had
> > > > > > > > > > > > a doll of any kind at all
> > > > > > > > > > > > but i wasn’t missing anything
> > > > > > > > > > > > i never wanted one...
> > > > > > > > > > > > to me they didn’t seem
> > > > > > > > > > > > like they would be all that much fun
> > > > > > > > > > > > i had a few books
> > > > > > > > > > > > and some records
> > > > > > > > > > > > which i somehow collected,
> > > > > > > > > > > > and my birds, and my fishes
> > > > > > > > > > > > and a few little wishes...
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > and now
> > > > > > > > > > > > i don’t have a baby, either
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > my dog is dead
> > > > > > > > > > > > i live alone
> > > > > > > > > > > > feed myself
> > > > > > > > > > > > and wipe my own ass...
> > > > > > > > > > > > at least for now
> > > > > > > > > > > > as best i can
> > > > > > > > > > > > yeah, it’s a real gas
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > yes, i don’t have
> > > > > > > > > > > > my very own baby,
> > > > > > > > > > > > perhaps that was even
> > > > > > > > > > > > a good thing...maybe
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > my cousin got hit by a car
> > > > > > > > > > > > two cousins, in fact
> > > > > > > > > > > > in two separate accidents
> > > > > > > > > > > > yet both were still hit
> > > > > > > > > > > > one of them lived
> > > > > > > > > > > > the other one died
> > > > > > > > > > > > i even had a cousin
> > > > > > > > > > > > who committed suicide
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > i never played with a dolly
> > > > > > > > > > > > what kind of plan is this
> > > > > > > > > > > > when judas betrayed jesus
> > > > > > > > > > > > he did so with a kiss
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > so i just have to stop and wonder,
> > > > > > > > > > > > all about me,
> > > > > > > > > > > > how things might have turned out
> > > > > > > > > > > > differently,
> > > > > > > > > > > > if i had had a doll
> > > > > > > > > > > > who poops and pees?
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > maybe i would have been more prepared
> > > > > > > > > > > > and more willing to play along
> > > > > > > > > > > > where the goal of the brain is reproduction,
> > > > > > > > > > > > in this planet’s never-ending song
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > then again, maybe not
> > > > > > > > > > > > it’s probably all just a crock
> > > > > > > > > > > > ask hitler what he thought
> > > > > > > > > > > > when he looked around, too
> > > > > > > > > > > > and asked himself, what am i to do
> > > > > > > > > > > > with all of these jews?
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > i guess i, myself,
> > > > > > > > > > > > just don’t see...
> > > > > > > > > > > > the point of it all,
> > > > > > > > > > > > this point to be...
> > > > > > > > > > > > where everyone plays along
> > > > > > > > > > > > and is all but the same
> > > > > > > > > > > > making more and more babies
> > > > > > > > > > > > human links in a chain
> > > > > > > > > > > > never stopping to ask
> > > > > > > > > > > > who designed this whole game
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > maybe i’m on the outside
> > > > > > > > > > > > of whatever side they’re all on…
> > > > > > > > > > > > where every day is a struggle
> > > > > > > > > > > > and my troubles weigh a ton
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > what do little girls do
> > > > > > > > > > > > with their babies
> > > > > > > > > > > > when they grow up?
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Jolene
> > > > > > > > > > > I enjoyed this in stretches, I was appropriately disturbed in most of the right places.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > The duality, yin and yang, and life unkind almost random.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Reminds me of Carl Sandburg in his longer winded moments, which is a good thing, and, of all things, some other early efforts at written/spoken poetry, 1976-77.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for posting, Rachel, as always, thought provoking.
> > > > > > > > > > May I asked which parts disturbed you, and why? Just curious. (not immediately obvious to me *at_all!*)
> > > > > > > > > Hello again Rachel, I'll go over the poem point by point soon, when time permits.
> > > > > > > > jeez wow....you've got me antsy now, i don't think the poem deserves it which makes me think your comments are going to be more insightful than the intention behind the poem itself!!! :)
> > > > > > > Do you remember Philo's critique of your poem the original thread?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > A few of my thoughts are derived from his observations.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The disturbing elements come from the simple acceptance of the duality of life and the multiverse.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Could be I've been watching too many Marvel Comics films.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I didn't remember either too well, but re-reading the thread before working with it jogged my memory! i like philo's poems! and i remember he posted a video of his wife's (or partner's) paintings, i THINK !?!!??!? iinm...? something...? an exhibit perhaps? he had good true life stories too, IINM. i'm sorry. my memory is finicky. it only gloms onto certain things, and is not that sharp for later life experiences, except perhaps for me being a one-eyed midget, and that's not necessarily (???) much of an attractive quality. oh well. :(
> > > > > >
> > > > > > if only i could exercise, too. i am severely injured. :-/// crud. :-(((
> > > > >
> > > > > Here is Philo's Facebook page, he's often got something interesting going:
> > > > >
> > > > > https://www.facebook.com/philip.kassner?mibextid=ZbWKwL
> > > > i'm not on facebook
> > > >
> > > > but philo, if you're still hanging around, i was wondering what you think of my categorical bad poem now?
> > > >
> > > > did i bump it out of the dustbin of cultural oblivion? or at least get it taken off the same shelf as rebecca black's friday song?
> > > I can Ping Philo if you want me to.
> > nah...if he wants to come find my sh*t here, then respond, well, he knows where to look.
> but thanks, tho' !

Rachel wrote:
> On Saturday, July 15, 2023 at 9:30:00 AM UTC-7, Will Dockery wrote:
> > On Saturday, July 15, 2023 at 1:11:10 AM UTC-4, Rachel wrote:
> > > > > On Friday, July 14, 2023 at 5:15:59 AM UTC-7, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > On Thursday, July 6, 2023 at 5:53:46 PM UTC-4, Rachel wrote:
> > > > > > > On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 10:39:08 PM UTC-7, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Thursday, July 6, 2023 at 12:16:27 AM UTC-4, Rachel wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 8:59:58 PM UTC-7, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 9:32:37 PM UTC-4, Rachel wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > On Tuesday, July 4, 2023 at 9:25:17 PM UTC-7, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > On Tuesday, July 4, 2023 at 5:08:38 PM UTC-4, Rachel wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > real life doll
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > a little girl
> > > > > > > > > > > > > plays with her dolly
> > > > > > > > > > > > > her very own baby
> > > > > > > > > > > > > to keep her company
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > she holds her
> > > > > > > > > > > > > carries her around
> > > > > > > > > > > > > sleeps with her
> > > > > > > > > > > > > they hug and cuddle
> > > > > > > > > > > > > maybe even feeds her
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > some dolls even
> > > > > > > > > > > > > eat and drink
> > > > > > > > > > > > > then pee and poop...
> > > > > > > > > > > > > yes, believe it or not
> > > > > > > > > > > > > it’s really true
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > you can feed them purées
> > > > > > > > > > > > > and baby bottles of juice,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > then change their diapers
> > > > > > > > > > > > > when they wet and drop a deuce
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > everybody pees and poops
> > > > > > > > > > > > > so what was i so uptight about?
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > it seems we’re all hollow tubes
> > > > > > > > > > > > > made to act, eat, and drink
> > > > > > > > > > > > > put in some food and some liquid
> > > > > > > > > > > > > then out comes the waste...
> > > > > > > > > > > > > what’s a person to think?
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > who are we, really
> > > > > > > > > > > > > does anybody know?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > where are we, really?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > where do we go...
> > > > > > > > > > > > > when we finally leave our bodies
> > > > > > > > > > > > > this thing they call soul?
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > are we just beings
> > > > > > > > > > > > > in the material world,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > shadowy spirits unseen?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > ghosts flying ‘round
> > > > > > > > > > > > > inside a machine?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > our bodies all sharing
> > > > > > > > > > > > > one communally-planned dream
> > > > > > > > > > > > > of hosts floating freely
> > > > > > > > > > > > > voices dancing on strings?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > where does the soul go
> > > > > > > > > > > > > after we die?
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > i don’t know much
> > > > > > > > > > > > > about any of these things...
> > > > > > > > > > > > > i never had a dolly
> > > > > > > > > > > > > who could dance or sing
> > > > > > > > > > > > > certainly never one
> > > > > > > > > > > > > who heeded nature’s call...
> > > > > > > > > > > > > i never really had
> > > > > > > > > > > > > a doll of any kind at all
> > > > > > > > > > > > > but i wasn’t missing anything
> > > > > > > > > > > > > i never wanted one...
> > > > > > > > > > > > > to me they didn’t seem
> > > > > > > > > > > > > like they would be all that much fun
> > > > > > > > > > > > > i had a few books
> > > > > > > > > > > > > and some records
> > > > > > > > > > > > > which i somehow collected,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > and my birds, and my fishes
> > > > > > > > > > > > > and a few little wishes...
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > and now
> > > > > > > > > > > > > i don’t have a baby, either
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > my dog is dead
> > > > > > > > > > > > > i live alone
> > > > > > > > > > > > > feed myself
> > > > > > > > > > > > > and wipe my own ass...
> > > > > > > > > > > > > at least for now
> > > > > > > > > > > > > as best i can
> > > > > > > > > > > > > yeah, it’s a real gas
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > yes, i don’t have
> > > > > > > > > > > > > my very own baby,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > perhaps that was even
> > > > > > > > > > > > > a good thing...maybe
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > my cousin got hit by a car
> > > > > > > > > > > > > two cousins, in fact
> > > > > > > > > > > > > in two separate accidents
> > > > > > > > > > > > > yet both were still hit
> > > > > > > > > > > > > one of them lived
> > > > > > > > > > > > > the other one died
> > > > > > > > > > > > > i even had a cousin
> > > > > > > > > > > > > who committed suicide
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > i never played with a dolly
> > > > > > > > > > > > > what kind of plan is this
> > > > > > > > > > > > > when judas betrayed jesus
> > > > > > > > > > > > > he did so with a kiss
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > so i just have to stop and wonder,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > all about me,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > how things might have turned out
> > > > > > > > > > > > > differently,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > if i had had a doll
> > > > > > > > > > > > > who poops and pees?
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > maybe i would have been more prepared
> > > > > > > > > > > > > and more willing to play along
> > > > > > > > > > > > > where the goal of the brain is reproduction,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > in this planet’s never-ending song
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > then again, maybe not
> > > > > > > > > > > > > it’s probably all just a crock
> > > > > > > > > > > > > ask hitler what he thought
> > > > > > > > > > > > > when he looked around, too
> > > > > > > > > > > > > and asked himself, what am i to do
> > > > > > > > > > > > > with all of these jews?
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > i guess i, myself,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > just don’t see...
> > > > > > > > > > > > > the point of it all,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > this point to be...
> > > > > > > > > > > > > where everyone plays along
> > > > > > > > > > > > > and is all but the same
> > > > > > > > > > > > > making more and more babies
> > > > > > > > > > > > > human links in a chain
> > > > > > > > > > > > > never stopping to ask
> > > > > > > > > > > > > who designed this whole game
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > maybe i’m on the outside
> > > > > > > > > > > > > of whatever side they’re all on…
> > > > > > > > > > > > > where every day is a struggle
> > > > > > > > > > > > > and my troubles weigh a ton
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > what do little girls do
> > > > > > > > > > > > > with their babies
> > > > > > > > > > > > > when they grow up?
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Jolene
> > > > > > > > > > > > I enjoyed this in stretches, I was appropriately disturbed in most of the right places.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > The duality, yin and yang, and life unkind almost random.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Reminds me of Carl Sandburg in his longer winded moments, which is a good thing, and, of all things, some other early efforts at written/spoken poetry, 1976-77.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for posting, Rachel, as always, thought provoking.
> > > > > > > > > > > May I asked which parts disturbed you, and why? Just curious. (not immediately obvious to me *at_all!*)
> > > > > > > > > > Hello again Rachel, I'll go over the poem point by point soon, when time permits.
> > > > > > > > > jeez wow....you've got me antsy now, i don't think the poem deserves it which makes me think your comments are going to be more insightful than the intention behind the poem itself!!! :)
> > > > > > > > Do you remember Philo's critique of your poem the original thread?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > A few of my thoughts are derived from his observations.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The disturbing elements come from the simple acceptance of the duality of life and the multiverse.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Could be I've been watching too many Marvel Comics films.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I didn't remember either too well, but re-reading the thread before working with it jogged my memory! i like philo's poems! and i remember he posted a video of his wife's (or partner's) paintings, i THINK !?!!??!? iinm...? something...? an exhibit perhaps? he had good true life stories too, IINM. i'm sorry. my memory is finicky. it only gloms onto certain things, and is not that sharp for later life experiences, except perhaps for me being a one-eyed midget, and that's not necessarily (???) much of an attractive quality. oh well. :(
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > if only i could exercise, too. i am severely injured. :-/// crud. :-(((
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Here is Philo's Facebook page, he's often got something interesting going:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > https://www.facebook.com/philip.kassner?mibextid=ZbWKwL
> > > > > i'm not on facebook
> > > > >
> > > > > but philo, if you're still hanging around, i was wondering what you think of my categorical bad poem now?
> > > > >
> > > > > did i bump it out of the dustbin of cultural oblivion? or at least get it taken off the same shelf as rebecca black's friday song?
> > > > I can Ping Philo if you want me to.
> > > nah...if he wants to come find my sh*t here, then respond, well, he knows where to look.
> > but thanks, tho' !
> of course he's welcome.....all are welcome, it's a public place! not like you can or should or want to be able to control who pops in! ;-) (to rearrange your furniture, comment on your poem, or come to boo at your concerts.....)

On Thursday, July 13, 2023 at 3:47:01 PM UTC-4, Family Guy wrote:
> On Thursday, July 13, 2023 at 12:19:16 AM UTC-4, Rachel wrote:
> > On Wednesday, July 12, 2023 at 8:57:49 PM UTC-7, Rachel wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, July 12, 2023 at 8:53:12 PM UTC-7, Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > > > On Wednesday, July 12, 2023 at 8:57:48 PM UTC-4, Rachel wrote:
> > > > > On Wednesday, July 12, 2023 at 8:37:45 AM UTC-7, Family Guy wrote:
> > > > > > On Wednesday, July 12, 2023 at 12:02:16 AM UTC-4, Rachel wrote:
>
> > > > > > = snip =
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You forgot to take your meds again, Crazy Lady.
> > > > > > Also there is no need for a novel in a poetry group. HTH. FOAD.
> > > > > who is this
> > > > Bob.
> > > for apples ?
> > i wasn't talking to you.
> >
> > i'm asking family guy. still waiting for responses.
>
> My response

Is one of your typical troll one liners.

No surprise there.

🙂

Rachel wrote:
>
> > real life doll
> >
> >
> > a little girl
> > plays with her dolly
> > her very own baby
> > to keep her company
> >
> > she holds her
> > carries her around
> > sleeps with her
> > they hug and cuddle
> > maybe even feeds her
> >
> > some dolls even
> > eat and drink
> > then pee and poop...
> > yes, believe it or not
> > it’s really true
> >
> > you can feed them purées
> > and baby bottles of juice,
> > then change their diapers
> > when they wet and drop a deuce
> >
> > everybody pees and poops
> > so what was i so uptight about?
> >
> > it seems we’re all hollow tubes
> > made to act, eat, and drink
> > put in some food and some liquid
> > then out comes the waste...
> > what’s a person to think?
> >
> > who are we, really
> > does anybody know?
> > where are we, really?
> > where do we go...
> > when we finally leave our bodies
> > this thing they call soul?
> >
> > are we just beings
> > in the material world,
> > shadowy spirits unseen?
> > ghosts flying ‘round
> > inside a machine?
> > our bodies all sharing
> > one communally-planned dream
> > of hosts floating freely
> > voices dancing on strings?
> > where does the soul go
> > after we die?
> >
> > i don’t know much
> > about any of these things...
> > i never had a dolly
> > who could dance or sing
> > certainly never one
> > who heeded nature’s call...
> > i never really had
> > a doll of any kind at all
> > but i wasn’t missing anything
> > i never wanted one...
> > to me they didn’t seem
> > like they would be all that much fun
> > i had a few books
> > and some records
> > which i somehow collected,
> > and my birds, and my fishes
> > and a few little wishes...
> >
> > and now
> > i don’t have a baby, either
> >
> > my dog is dead
> > i live alone
> > feed myself
> > and wipe my own ass...
> > at least for now
> > as best i can
> > yeah, it’s a real gas
> >
> > yes, i don’t have
> > my very own baby,
> > perhaps that was even
> > a good thing...maybe
> >
> > my cousin got hit by a car
> > two cousins, in fact
> > in two separate accidents
> > yet both were still hit
> > one of them lived
> > the other one died
> > i even had a cousin
> > who committed suicide
> >
> > i never played with a dolly
> > what kind of plan is this
> > when judas betrayed jesus
> > he did so with a kiss
> >
> > so i just have to stop and wonder,
> > all about me,
> > how things might have turned out
> > differently,
> > if i had had a doll
> > who poops and pees?
> >
> > maybe i would have been more prepared
> > and more willing to play along
> > where the goal of the brain is reproduction,
> > in this planet’s never-ending song
> >
> > then again, maybe not
> > it’s probably all just a crock
> > ask hitler what he thought
> > when he looked around, too
> > and asked himself, what am i to do
> > with all of these jews?
> >
> > i guess i, myself,
> > just don’t see...
> > the point of it all,
> > this point to be...
> > where everyone plays along
> > and is all but the same
> > making more and more babies
> > human links in a chain
> > never stopping to ask
> > who designed this whole game
> >
> > maybe i’m on the outside
> > of whatever side they’re all on…
> > where every day is a struggle
> > and my troubles weigh a ton
> >
> > what do little girls do
> > with their babies
> > when they grow up?
> >
> >
> > Jolene

Like I wrote earlier, I enjoyed this in stretches, I was appropriately disturbed in most of the right places.

The duality, yin and yang, and life unkind almost random.

Reminds me of Carl Sandburg in his longer winded moments, which is a good thing, and, of all things, some other early efforts at written/spoken poetry, 1976-77.

Thanks for posting, Rachel, as always, thought provoking.

HTH and HAND.

On Monday, July 24, 2023 at 3:43:44 PM UTC-7, Will Dockery wrote:
> Rachel wrote:
> >
> > > real life doll
> > >
> > >
> > > a little girl
> > > plays with her dolly
> > > her very own baby
> > > to keep her company
> > >
> > > she holds her
> > > carries her around
> > > sleeps with her
> > > they hug and cuddle
> > > maybe even feeds her
> > >
> > > some dolls even
> > > eat and drink
> > > then pee and poop...
> > > yes, believe it or not
> > > it’s really true
> > >
> > > you can feed them purées
> > > and baby bottles of juice,
> > > then change their diapers
> > > when they wet and drop a deuce
> > >
> > > everybody pees and poops
> > > so what was i so uptight about?
> > >
> > > it seems we’re all hollow tubes
> > > made to act, eat, and drink
> > > put in some food and some liquid
> > > then out comes the waste...
> > > what’s a person to think?
> > >
> > > who are we, really
> > > does anybody know?
> > > where are we, really?
> > > where do we go...
> > > when we finally leave our bodies
> > > this thing they call soul?
> > >
> > > are we just beings
> > > in the material world,
> > > shadowy spirits unseen?
> > > ghosts flying ‘round
> > > inside a machine?
> > > our bodies all sharing
> > > one communally-planned dream
> > > of hosts floating freely
> > > voices dancing on strings?
> > > where does the soul go
> > > after we die?
> > >
> > > i don’t know much
> > > about any of these things...
> > > i never had a dolly
> > > who could dance or sing
> > > certainly never one
> > > who heeded nature’s call...
> > > i never really had
> > > a doll of any kind at all
> > > but i wasn’t missing anything
> > > i never wanted one...
> > > to me they didn’t seem
> > > like they would be all that much fun
> > > i had a few books
> > > and some records
> > > which i somehow collected,
> > > and my birds, and my fishes
> > > and a few little wishes...
> > >
> > > and now
> > > i don’t have a baby, either
> > >
> > > my dog is dead
> > > i live alone
> > > feed myself
> > > and wipe my own ass...
> > > at least for now
> > > as best i can
> > > yeah, it’s a real gas
> > >
> > > yes, i don’t have
> > > my very own baby,
> > > perhaps that was even
> > > a good thing...maybe
> > >
> > > my cousin got hit by a car
> > > two cousins, in fact
> > > in two separate accidents
> > > yet both were still hit
> > > one of them lived
> > > the other one died
> > > i even had a cousin
> > > who committed suicide
> > >
> > > i never played with a dolly
> > > what kind of plan is this
> > > when judas betrayed jesus
> > > he did so with a kiss
> > >
> > > so i just have to stop and wonder,
> > > all about me,
> > > how things might have turned out
> > > differently,
> > > if i had had a doll
> > > who poops and pees?
> > >
> > > maybe i would have been more prepared
> > > and more willing to play along
> > > where the goal of the brain is reproduction,
> > > in this planet’s never-ending song
> > >
> > > then again, maybe not
> > > it’s probably all just a crock
> > > ask hitler what he thought
> > > when he looked around, too
> > > and asked himself, what am i to do
> > > with all of these jews?
> > >
> > > i guess i, myself,
> > > just don’t see...
> > > the point of it all,
> > > this point to be...
> > > where everyone plays along
> > > and is all but the same
> > > making more and more babies
> > > human links in a chain
> > > never stopping to ask
> > > who designed this whole game
> > >
> > > maybe i’m on the outside
> > > of whatever side they’re all on…
> > > where every day is a struggle
> > > and my troubles weigh a ton
> > >
> > > what do little girls do
> > > with their babies
> > > when they grow up?
> > >
> > >
> > > Jolene
> Like I wrote earlier, I enjoyed this in stretches, I was appropriately disturbed in most of the right places.
> The duality, yin and yang, and life unkind almost random.
>
> Reminds me of Carl Sandburg in his longer winded moments, which is a good thing, and, of all things, some other early efforts at written/spoken poetry, 1976-77.
>
> Thanks for posting, Rachel, as always, thought provoking.
> HTH and HAND.

Of course! Silly, silly, silly me.

On Monday, July 24, 2023 at 7:09:28 PM UTC-4, Rachel wrote:
> On Monday, July 24, 2023 at 3:43:44 PM UTC-7, Will Dockery wrote:
> > Rachel wrote:
> > >
> > > > real life doll
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > a little girl
> > > > plays with her dolly
> > > > her very own baby
> > > > to keep her company
> > > >
> > > > she holds her
> > > > carries her around
> > > > sleeps with her
> > > > they hug and cuddle
> > > > maybe even feeds her
> > > >
> > > > some dolls even
> > > > eat and drink
> > > > then pee and poop...
> > > > yes, believe it or not
> > > > it’s really true
> > > >
> > > > you can feed them purées
> > > > and baby bottles of juice,
> > > > then change their diapers
> > > > when they wet and drop a deuce
> > > >
> > > > everybody pees and poops
> > > > so what was i so uptight about?
> > > >
> > > > it seems we’re all hollow tubes
> > > > made to act, eat, and drink
> > > > put in some food and some liquid
> > > > then out comes the waste...
> > > > what’s a person to think?
> > > >
> > > > who are we, really
> > > > does anybody know?
> > > > where are we, really?
> > > > where do we go...
> > > > when we finally leave our bodies
> > > > this thing they call soul?
> > > >
> > > > are we just beings
> > > > in the material world,
> > > > shadowy spirits unseen?
> > > > ghosts flying ‘round
> > > > inside a machine?
> > > > our bodies all sharing
> > > > one communally-planned dream
> > > > of hosts floating freely
> > > > voices dancing on strings?
> > > > where does the soul go
> > > > after we die?
> > > >
> > > > i don’t know much
> > > > about any of these things...
> > > > i never had a dolly
> > > > who could dance or sing
> > > > certainly never one
> > > > who heeded nature’s call...
> > > > i never really had
> > > > a doll of any kind at all
> > > > but i wasn’t missing anything
> > > > i never wanted one...
> > > > to me they didn’t seem
> > > > like they would be all that much fun
> > > > i had a few books
> > > > and some records
> > > > which i somehow collected,
> > > > and my birds, and my fishes
> > > > and a few little wishes...
> > > >
> > > > and now
> > > > i don’t have a baby, either
> > > >
> > > > my dog is dead
> > > > i live alone
> > > > feed myself
> > > > and wipe my own ass...
> > > > at least for now
> > > > as best i can
> > > > yeah, it’s a real gas
> > > >
> > > > yes, i don’t have
> > > > my very own baby,
> > > > perhaps that was even
> > > > a good thing...maybe
> > > >
> > > > my cousin got hit by a car
> > > > two cousins, in fact
> > > > in two separate accidents
> > > > yet both were still hit
> > > > one of them lived
> > > > the other one died
> > > > i even had a cousin
> > > > who committed suicide
> > > >
> > > > i never played with a dolly
> > > > what kind of plan is this
> > > > when judas betrayed jesus
> > > > he did so with a kiss
> > > >
> > > > so i just have to stop and wonder,
> > > > all about me,
> > > > how things might have turned out
> > > > differently,
> > > > if i had had a doll
> > > > who poops and pees?
> > > >
> > > > maybe i would have been more prepared
> > > > and more willing to play along
> > > > where the goal of the brain is reproduction,
> > > > in this planet’s never-ending song
> > > >
> > > > then again, maybe not
> > > > it’s probably all just a crock
> > > > ask hitler what he thought
> > > > when he looked around, too
> > > > and asked himself, what am i to do
> > > > with all of these jews?
> > > >
> > > > i guess i, myself,
> > > > just don’t see...
> > > > the point of it all,
> > > > this point to be...
> > > > where everyone plays along
> > > > and is all but the same
> > > > making more and more babies
> > > > human links in a chain
> > > > never stopping to ask
> > > > who designed this whole game
> > > >
> > > > maybe i’m on the outside
> > > > of whatever side they’re all on…
> > > > where every day is a struggle
> > > > and my troubles weigh a ton
> > > >
> > > > what do little girls do
> > > > with their babies
> > > > when they grow up?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Jolene
> > Like I wrote earlier, I enjoyed this in stretches, I was appropriately disturbed in most of the right places.
> > The duality, yin and yang, and life unkind almost random.
> >
> > Reminds me of Carl Sandburg in his longer winded moments, which is a good thing, and, of all things, some other early efforts at written/spoken poetry, 1976-77.
> >
> > Thanks for posting, Rachel, as always, thought provoking.
> > HTH and HAND.
> Of course! Silly, silly, silly me.

So, my next comments will build on, continue from, these.

Changes in the poem may change my perspective, I'm not sure.

🙂

On Monday, July 24, 2023 at 6:43:44 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> Rachel wrote:
> >
> > > real life doll
> > >
> > >
> > > a little girl
> > > plays with her dolly
> > > her very own baby
> > > to keep her company
> > >
> > > she holds her
> > > carries her around
> > > sleeps with her
> > > they hug and cuddle
> > > maybe even feeds her
> > >
> > > some dolls even
> > > eat and drink
> > > then pee and poop...
> > > yes, believe it or not
> > > it’s really true
> > >
> > > you can feed them purées
> > > and baby bottles of juice,
> > > then change their diapers
> > > when they wet and drop a deuce
> > >
> > > everybody pees and poops
> > > so what was i so uptight about?
> > >
> > > it seems we’re all hollow tubes
> > > made to act, eat, and drink
> > > put in some food and some liquid
> > > then out comes the waste...
> > > what’s a person to think?
> > >
> > > who are we, really
> > > does anybody know?
> > > where are we, really?
> > > where do we go...
> > > when we finally leave our bodies
> > > this thing they call soul?
> > >
> > > are we just beings
> > > in the material world,
> > > shadowy spirits unseen?
> > > ghosts flying ‘round
> > > inside a machine?
> > > our bodies all sharing
> > > one communally-planned dream
> > > of hosts floating freely
> > > voices dancing on strings?
> > > where does the soul go
> > > after we die?
> > >
> > > i don’t know much
> > > about any of these things...
> > > i never had a dolly
> > > who could dance or sing
> > > certainly never one
> > > who heeded nature’s call...
> > > i never really had
> > > a doll of any kind at all
> > > but i wasn’t missing anything
> > > i never wanted one...
> > > to me they didn’t seem
> > > like they would be all that much fun
> > > i had a few books
> > > and some records
> > > which i somehow collected,
> > > and my birds, and my fishes
> > > and a few little wishes...
> > >
> > > and now
> > > i don’t have a baby, either
> > >
> > > my dog is dead
> > > i live alone
> > > feed myself
> > > and wipe my own ass...
> > > at least for now
> > > as best i can
> > > yeah, it’s a real gas
> > >
> > > yes, i don’t have
> > > my very own baby,
> > > perhaps that was even
> > > a good thing...maybe
> > >
> > > my cousin got hit by a car
> > > two cousins, in fact
> > > in two separate accidents
> > > yet both were still hit
> > > one of them lived
> > > the other one died
> > > i even had a cousin
> > > who committed suicide
> > >
> > > i never played with a dolly
> > > what kind of plan is this
> > > when judas betrayed jesus
> > > he did so with a kiss
> > >
> > > so i just have to stop and wonder,
> > > all about me,
> > > how things might have turned out
> > > differently,
> > > if i had had a doll
> > > who poops and pees?
> > >
> > > maybe i would have been more prepared
> > > and more willing to play along
> > > where the goal of the brain is reproduction,
> > > in this planet’s never-ending song
> > >
> > > then again, maybe not
> > > it’s probably all just a crock
> > > ask hitler what he thought
> > > when he looked around, too
> > > and asked himself, what am i to do
> > > with all of these jews?
> > >
> > > i guess i, myself,
> > > just don’t see...
> > > the point of it all,
> > > this point to be...
> > > where everyone plays along
> > > and is all but the same
> > > making more and more babies
> > > human links in a chain
> > > never stopping to ask
> > > who designed this whole game
> > >
> > > maybe i’m on the outside
> > > of whatever side they’re all on…
> > > where every day is a struggle
> > > and my troubles weigh a ton
> > >
> > > what do little girls do
> > > with their babies
> > > when they grow up?
> > >
> > >
> > > Jolene
> Like I wrote earlier, I enjoyed this in stretches, I was appropriately disturbed in most of the right places.
> The duality, yin and yang, and life unkind almost random.
>
> Reminds me of Carl Sandburg in his longer winded moments, which is a good thing, and, of all things, some other early efforts at written/spoken poetry, 1976-77.
>
> Thanks for posting, Rachel, as always, thought provoking.
> HTH and HAND.

Well put Doc, somewhat agree....