In the recent lists of Great Living Conductors who Don't Do HIP there appears to be no mention of Stephane Deneve. This surprises me. He conducts an American orchestra, and he's recorded for Naxos, to great critical acclaim. And he must be so much better than Rattle. What's the problem? If it's his nationality, he's only *just* French - if he'd been born a few km further north, he'd have been a Belgian.

Or are people confusing him with Catharine?

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

On Thursday, March 24, 2022 at 3:37:54 AM UTC-4, andrewc...@gmail.com wrote:
> In the recent lists of Great Living Conductors who Don't Do HIP there appears to be no mention of Stephane Deneve. This surprises me. He conducts an American orchestra, and he's recorded for Naxos, to great critical acclaim.. And he must be so much better than Rattle. What's the problem? If it's his nationality, he's only *just* French - if he'd been born a few km further north, he'd have been a Belgian.
>
> Or are people confusing him with Catharine?
>
> Andrew Clarke
> Canberra

Would you be referring to this DG recording artist?

https://youtu.be/ozwCdFmE8WM

On Thursday, March 24, 2022 at 7:31:36 PM UTC+11, JohnGavin wrote:
> On Thursday, March 24, 2022 at 3:37:54 AM UTC-4, andrewc...@gmail.com wrote:
> > In the recent lists of Great Living Conductors who Don't Do HIP there appears to be no mention of Stephane Deneve. This surprises me. He conducts an American orchestra, and he's recorded for Naxos, to great critical acclaim. And he must be so much better than Rattle. What's the problem? If it's his nationality, he's only *just* French - if he'd been born a few km further north, he'd have been a Belgian.
> >
> > Or are people confusing him with Catharine?
> >
> > Andrew Clarke
> > Canberra
> Would you be referring to this DG recording artist?
>
> https://youtu.be/ozwCdFmE8WM

Well that flummoxed me! 'Belle de Jour' and 'Un Flic' and 'Le Dernier Metro' I know very well. I only knew about the early three Chansons de Bilitis that Debussy wrote to be sung, not the the later Musique de Scene pour les Chansons, which do not require Mme Deneuve to sing but to recite, which I bet she does perfectly.

She Came A Long Way From St Louys?

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

On 24 Mar 2022 Andrew Clarke wrote:

> In the recent lists of Great Living Conductors who Don't Do HIP there
> appears to be no mention of Stephane Deneve. This surprises me. He
> conducts an American orchestra, and he's recorded for Naxos, to great
> critical acclaim. And he must be so much better than Rattle. What's the
> problem?

Don't know. He even has the right haircut. Well, almost.

https://assets.classicfm.com/2015/03/stphane-denve-1421844372-view-0.jpg

Perhaps he should dye it silver-grey.;-)

Chris

On 3/24/2022 8:22 AM, Chris J. wrote:
> On 24 Mar 2022 Andrew Clarke wrote:
>
>> In the recent lists of Great Living Conductors who Don't Do HIP there
>> appears to be no mention of Stephane Deneve. This surprises me. He
>> conducts an American orchestra, and he's recorded for Naxos, to great
>> critical acclaim. And he must be so much better than Rattle. What's the
>> problem?
>
> Don't know. He even has the right haircut. Well, almost.
>
> https://assets.classicfm.com/2015/03/stphane-denve-1421844372-view-0.jpg
>
> Perhaps he should dye it silver-grey.;-)
>
> Chris
>
>
>

Perhaps in this post-Covid era we will see some recordings from SLSO and Deneve.

Does he know how to pronounce St. Louis in the U.S.?

His recorded repertoire is overwhelmingly French, is it not? Poulenc, Roussel, Debussy, Honegger (I know, he was Swiss), Ravel, Thomas, Saint-Saens, Franck. Soem Prokofiev is the only exception I see. I assume his concert repertoire is more varied.

On Friday, March 25, 2022 at 2:01:12 AM UTC+11, Frank Berger wrote:
> On 3/24/2022 8:22 AM, Chris J. wrote:
> > On 24 Mar 2022 Andrew Clarke wrote:
> >
> >> In the recent lists of Great Living Conductors who Don't Do HIP there
> >> appears to be no mention of Stephane Deneve. This surprises me. He
> >> conducts an American orchestra, and he's recorded for Naxos, to great
> >> critical acclaim. And he must be so much better than Rattle. What's the
> >> problem?
> >
> > Don't know. He even has the right haircut. Well, almost.
> >
> > https://assets.classicfm.com/2015/03/stphane-denve-1421844372-view-0.jpg
> >
> > Perhaps he should dye it silver-grey.;-)
> >
> > Chris
> >
> >
> >
> Perhaps in this post-Covid era we will see some recordings from SLSO and Deneve.
>
> Does he know how to pronounce St. Louis in the U.S.?

He could take lessons in pronunciation from

<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzcloaiOvHs>

and

<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqezXDgObWE>

>
> His recorded repertoire is overwhelmingly French, is it not? Poulenc, Roussel, Debussy, Honegger (I know, he was Swiss), Ravel, Thomas, Saint-Saens, Franck. Soem Prokofiev is the only exception I see. I assume his concert repertoire is more varied.

He hates to see
That Mendelssohn go down ....

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

On Thursday, March 24, 2022 at 11:22:44 PM UTC+11, Chris J. wrote:

> Don't know. He even has the right haircut. Well, almost.
>
> https://assets.classicfm.com/2015/03/stphane-denve-1421844372-view-0.jpg
>
> Perhaps he should dye it silver-grey.;-)
>

I don't think the Dude would like that. I really don't. Even worse, he might have played for Norrington. He does come from the Chalumeau Me State.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

> > > On 24 Mar 2022 Andrew Clarke wrote:
> > >
> He could take lessons in pronunciation from
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzcloaiOvHs>
>
> and
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqezXDgObWE>
> >
And don't forget Allan Sherman --
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ep9fG_ji7T8

On Friday, March 25, 2022 at 9:44:13 AM UTC+11, number_six wrote:
> > > > On 24 Mar 2022 Andrew Clarke wrote:

> And don't forget Allan Sherman --
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ep9fG_ji7T8

That is brilliant - it's up there with 'Shake Hands With Your Uncle Max Me Boy' and 'Bye bye Bloomberg'. I hope the hosts of the bar mitzvah got plenty of royalties for all that canned laughter. For more on Mad King Louis see

<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdEF-Fcm9CM>

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

On Thursday, March 24, 2022 at 3:37:54 AM, Andrew Clarke wrote:
>
> In the recent lists of Great Living Conductors who Don't Do HIP there appears to be no mention of Stephane Deneve.
> This surprises me. He conducts an American orchestra, and he's recorded for Naxos, to great critical acclaim. And
> he must be so much better than Rattle. What's the problem? If it's his nationality, he's only *just* French - if he'd been
> born a few km further north, he'd have been a Belgian.

Munch was born in Alsace, and was a native German speaker. As for Dénève, he is the man! The Midwest is fortunate to have him. Can't wait to see him in person at Powell Hall.

On Friday, March 25, 2022 at 2:57:59 PM UTC+11, Andrew Clarke wrote:
> I hope the hosts of the bar mitzvah got plenty of royalties for all that canned laughter.

I now know that all Alan Sherman's successful albums were recorded before a live audience, so no canned laughter was required. My apologies to the ghost of Mr Sherman wherever it may be.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

On Friday, March 25, 2022 at 2:01:12 AM UTC+11, Frank Berger wrote:
> On 3/24/2022 8:22 AM, Chris J. wrote:
> > On 24 Mar 2022 Andrew Clarke wrote:
> >
> >> In the recent lists of Great Living Conductors who Don't Do HIP there
> >> appears to be no mention of Stephane Deneve. This surprises me. He
> >> conducts an American orchestra, and he's recorded for Naxos, to great
> >> critical acclaim. And he must be so much better than Rattle. What's the
> >> problem?
> >
> > Don't know. He even has the right haircut. Well, almost.
> >
> > https://assets.classicfm.com/2015/03/stphane-denve-1421844372-view-0.jpg
> >
> > Perhaps he should dye it silver-grey.;-)
> >
> > Chris
> >
> >
> >
> Perhaps in this post-Covid era we will see some recordings from SLSO and Deneve.
>
> Does he know how to pronounce St. Louis in the U.S.?
>
> His recorded repertoire is overwhelmingly French, is it not? Poulenc, Roussel, Debussy, Honegger (I know, he was Swiss), Ravel, Thomas, Saint-Saens, Franck. Soem Prokofiev is the only exception I see. I assume his concert repertoire is more varied.

I had a look at Presto Classical and so far as I can see, all his recordings have been made with European orchestras.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

On Friday, March 25, 2022 at 1:11:28 PM UTC-7, andrewc...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, March 25, 2022 at 2:01:12 AM UTC+11, Frank Berger wrote:
> > On 3/24/2022 8:22 AM, Chris J. wrote:
> > > On 24 Mar 2022 Andrew Clarke wrote:
> > >
> > >> In the recent lists of Great Living Conductors who Don't Do HIP there
> > >> appears to be no mention of Stephane Deneve. This surprises me. He
> > >> conducts an American orchestra, and he's recorded for Naxos, to great
> > >> critical acclaim. And he must be so much better than Rattle. What's the
> > >> problem?
> > >
> > > Don't know. He even has the right haircut. Well, almost.
> > >
> > > https://assets.classicfm.com/2015/03/stphane-denve-1421844372-view-0.jpg
> > >
> > > Perhaps he should dye it silver-grey.;-)
> > >
> > > Chris
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > Perhaps in this post-Covid era we will see some recordings from SLSO and Deneve.
> >
> > Does he know how to pronounce St. Louis in the U.S.?
> >
> > His recorded repertoire is overwhelmingly French, is it not? Poulenc, Roussel, Debussy, Honegger (I know, he was Swiss), Ravel, Thomas, Saint-Saens, Franck. Soem Prokofiev is the only exception I see. I assume his concert repertoire is more varied.
> I had a look at Presto Classical and so far as I can see, all his recordings have been made with European orchestras.
>
> Andrew Clarke
> Canberra

No surprise. Many American orchestras nowadays prefer to be seen, not heard.

On Fri, 25 Mar 2022, Andrew Clarke wrote:

> On Friday, March 25, 2022 at 2:01:12 AM UTC+11, Frank Berger wrote:
>> On 3/24/2022 8:22 AM, Chris J. wrote:
>>> On 24 Mar 2022 Andrew Clarke wrote:
>>>
>>>> In the recent lists of Great Living Conductors who Don't Do HIP there
>>>> appears to be no mention of Stephane Deneve. This surprises me. He
>>>> conducts an American orchestra, and he's recorded for Naxos, to great
>>>> critical acclaim. And he must be so much better than Rattle. What's the
>>>> problem?
>>>
>>> Don't know. He even has the right haircut. Well, almost.
>>>
>>> https://assets.classicfm.com/2015/03/stphane-denve-1421844372-view-0.jpg
>>>
>>> Perhaps he should dye it silver-grey.;-)
>>>
>>> Chris
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Perhaps in this post-Covid era we will see some recordings from SLSO and Deneve.
>>
>> Does he know how to pronounce St. Louis in the U.S.?
>>
>> His recorded repertoire is overwhelmingly French, is it not? Poulenc, Roussel, Debussy, Honegger (I know, he was Swiss), Ravel, Thomas, Saint-Saens, Franck. Soem Prokofiev is the only exception I see. I assume his concert repertoire is more varied.
>
> I had a look at Presto Classical and so far as I can see, all his recordings have been made with European orchestras.
>
> Andrew Clarke
> Canberra

From the SLSO website, their last recordings were from 2019, with their
previous music director, David Robertson. Aren't recording contracts
for most orchestras tie more to the conductor than to orchestra?

The few upcoming concerts from Deneve this spring seem varied (one nicely
couples "La Mer" with RVW's "Sea Symphony" plus a new work), and a digital
concert series is not particularly French (more Russian, if anything).
According to the site, he puts an emphasis on contemporary music - was
that not a trait shared by Robertson and, way back, Slatkin.

If your initial post, Andrew, was a refeence to Hurwitz's two lists, I
don't get the comparison you ade to Rattle. It seems highly unlikely
that Dave would put Rattle on any "best" list.
--
Al Eisner

On Saturday, March 26, 2022 at 10:39:22 AM UTC+11, Al Eisner wrote:
> If your initial post, Andrew, was a refeence to Hurwitz's two lists, I
> don't get the comparison you ade to Rattle. It seems highly unlikely
> that Dave would put Rattle on any "best" list.
> --
> Al Eisner

"And he must be so much better than Rattle" is what I wrote. I'm implying, with my tongue firmly in my cheek, that M. Deneve would have to be regarded as much, much
better than Sir Simon to make it to any of Dave's Top Tens.

I am in the process of constructing a digital Hurwitz Memorial Library, full of Rattle, Eliot Gardiner, Roth et al. I admit to not owning any Norrington - yet.

Not so long ago the record shops - remember those? - were full of recordings by major labels of American orchestras from outside the Top Five. Sadly, those days are gone, and I'm not sure that they are ever coming back, unless they make, and market, their own. Canadian HIP band Tafelmusik used to do this, but these recordings are few in number and are now buried under the "Shop" link on the footer of their website. They used to do downloads too, and I purchased quite a few of them.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

On Saturday, March 26, 2022 at 6:05:25 AM UTC-7, andrewc...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> I am in the process of constructing a
> digital Hurwitz Memorial Library, full
> of Rattle, Eliot Gardiner, Roth et al. I
> admit to not owning any Norrington
> - yet.

Just keep it full of rattle.
Everything else is noise. ;-)

dk

On Sunday, March 27, 2022 at 5:24:32 AM UTC+11, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
> On Saturday, March 26, 2022 at 6:05:25 AM UTC-7, andrewc...@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> > I am in the process of constructing a
> > digital Hurwitz Memorial Library, full
> > of Rattle, Eliot Gardiner, Roth et al. I
> > admit to not owning any Norrington
> > - yet.
> Just keep it full of rattle.
> Everything else is noise. ;-)
>

I'm afraid I'm already beyond redemption, as I possess not only the Rattle Brahms cycle withe Berlin Phil but the Eliot Gardiner one with the ORR as well. I can only plead that I also have the Marin Marais Brahms cycle on Naxos, although the name of the orchestra does, unfortunately, include the L word. Oh yes, and there's the Mackerras recording of Brahms 3rd which Dave likes, which is strange because the SCO uses gut strings and 19th century brass, including Vienna horns.

My next purchase for the HML will be Sir Simon's recordings of the Sibelius symphonies, which will put me as far beyond the pale as it is possible to get.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

On Sunday, March 27, 2022 at 3:52:16 AM UTC-7, andrewc wrote:
My next purchase for the HML will be Sir Simon's recordings of the Sibelius symphonies, which will put me as far beyond the pale as it is possible to get.
>
> Andrew Clarke
> Canberra

Rattle was recently said to have applied for German citizenship.

Assuming he goes dual (that is, does not renounce UK), does he retain his knighthood?

On Sunday, March 27, 2022 at 5:52:16 AM UTC-5, andrewc...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, March 27, 2022 at 5:24:32 AM UTC+11, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Saturday, March 26, 2022 at 6:05:25 AM UTC-7, andrewc...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >
> > > I am in the process of constructing a
> > > digital Hurwitz Memorial Library, full
> > > of Rattle, Eliot Gardiner, Roth et al. I
> > > admit to not owning any Norrington
> > > - yet.
> > Just keep it full of rattle.
> > Everything else is noise. ;-)
> >
> I'm afraid I'm already beyond redemption, as I possess not only the Rattle Brahms cycle withe Berlin Phil but the Eliot Gardiner one with the ORR as well. I can only plead that I also have the Marin Marais Brahms cycle on Naxos, although the name of the orchestra does, unfortunately, include the L word. Oh yes, and there's the Mackerras recording of Brahms 3rd which Dave likes, which is strange because the SCO uses gut strings and 19th century brass, including Vienna horns.
>
> My next purchase for the HML will be Sir Simon's recordings of the Sibelius symphonies, which will put me as far beyond the pale as it is possible to get.
>
> Andrew Clarke
> Canberra

Marin Alsop's Brahms cycle?

On Tuesday, March 29, 2022 at 8:51:56 AM UTC+11, number_six wrote:
> On Sunday, March 27, 2022 at 3:52:16 AM UTC-7, andrewc wrote:
> My next purchase for the HML will be Sir Simon's recordings of the Sibelius symphonies, which will put me as far beyond the pale as it is possible to get.
> >
> > Andrew Clarke
> > Canberra
> Rattle was recently said to have applied for German citizenship.
>
> Assuming he goes dual (that is, does not renounce UK), does he retain his knighthood?

I would think so, unless Germany, like the USA, does not allow its citizens to use titles bestowed by other countries. Cf Bob Hope, Georg Solti and other foreign nationals who were given honorary knighthoods in the past. Solti later became a British citizen and was able to style himself Sir Georg. Sir Simon may of course choose to renounce the title or not style himself "Sir".

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

On Tuesday, March 29, 2022 at 11:36:04 AM UTC+11, ljk...@aol.com wrote:
> On Sunday, March 27, 2022 at 5:52:16 AM UTC-5, andrewc...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Sunday, March 27, 2022 at 5:24:32 AM UTC+11, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Saturday, March 26, 2022 at 6:05:25 AM UTC-7, andrewc...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I am in the process of constructing a
> > > > digital Hurwitz Memorial Library, full
> > > > of Rattle, Eliot Gardiner, Roth et al. I
> > > > admit to not owning any Norrington
> > > > - yet.
> > > Just keep it full of rattle.
> > > Everything else is noise. ;-)
> > >
> > I'm afraid I'm already beyond redemption, as I possess not only the Rattle Brahms cycle withe Berlin Phil but the Eliot Gardiner one with the ORR as well. I can only plead that I also have the Marin Marais Brahms cycle on Naxos, although the name of the orchestra does, unfortunately, include the L word. Oh yes, and there's the Mackerras recording of Brahms 3rd which Dave likes, which is strange because the SCO uses gut strings and 19th century brass, including Vienna horns.
> >
> > My next purchase for the HML will be Sir Simon's recordings of the Sibelius symphonies, which will put me as far beyond the pale as it is possible to get.
> >
> > Andrew Clarke
> > Canberra
> Marin Alsop's Brahms cycle?

Madge Alsop. I apologise to Ms Marais for the confusion.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

On Tuesday, March 29, 2022 at 12:58:10 PM UTC+11, Andrew Clarke wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 29, 2022 at 8:51:56 AM UTC+11, number_six wrote:
> > On Sunday, March 27, 2022 at 3:52:16 AM UTC-7, andrewc wrote:
> > My next purchase for the HML will be Sir Simon's recordings of the Sibelius symphonies, which will put me as far beyond the pale as it is possible to get.
> > >
> > > Andrew Clarke
> > > Canberra
> > Rattle was recently said to have applied for German citizenship.
> >
> > Assuming he goes dual (that is, does not renounce UK), does he retain his knighthood?
> I would think so, unless Germany, like the USA, does not allow its citizens to use titles bestowed by other countries. Cf Bob Hope, Georg Solti and other foreign nationals who were given honorary knighthoods in the past. Solti later became a British citizen and was able to style himself Sir Georg. Sir Simon may of course choose to renounce the title or not style himself "Sir".
>

It turns out that Ritter von Rattel is already a German citizen and a recipient of Germany's highest award, the Order of Merit. This step was to enable him to more freely move about the EU without the paperwork required for post-Brexit Britons. He also seems to believe that Brexit supporters are innately insular and anti-European, a very dubious assumption. I think that if the EU had stuck to what it originally was, namely a free trade zone, the UK would still be a member.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra
or is it Ratter von Rittel?

On 3/28/2022 9:58 PM, Andrew Clarke wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 29, 2022 at 8:51:56 AM UTC+11, number_six wrote:
>> On Sunday, March 27, 2022 at 3:52:16 AM UTC-7, andrewc wrote:
>> My next purchase for the HML will be Sir Simon's recordings of the Sibelius symphonies, which will put me as far beyond the pale as it is possible to get.
>>>
>>> Andrew Clarke
>>> Canberra
>> Rattle was recently said to have applied for German citizenship.
>>
>> Assuming he goes dual (that is, does not renounce UK), does he retain his knighthood?
>
> I would think so, unless Germany, like the USA, does not allow its citizens to use titles bestowed by other countries. Cf Bob Hope, Georg Solti and other foreign nationals who were given honorary knighthoods in the past. Solti later became a British citizen and was able to style himself Sir Georg. Sir Simon may of course choose to renounce the title or not style himself "Sir".
>
> Andrew Clarke
> Canberra

Wait. Is there really a law in the U.S. preventing me from calling myself Sir Frank?

On 3/29/22 8:52 AM, Frank Berger wrote:
> On 3/28/2022 9:58 PM, Andrew Clarke wrote:

>> I would think so, unless Germany, like the USA, does not allow its
>> citizens to use titles bestowed by other countries. Cf Bob Hope, Georg
>> Solti and other foreign nationals who were given honorary knighthoods
>> in the past. Solti later became a British citizen and was able to
>> style himself Sir Georg. Sir Simon may of course choose to renounce
>> the title or not style himself "Sir".

> Wait.  Is there really a law in the U.S. preventing me from calling
> myself Sir Frank?

I hope this doesn't affect Sir Mix-A-Lot or the late Sir Douglas of
Quintet fame.

On Tuesday, March 29, 2022 at 7:13:02 AM UTC-7, MINe109 wrote:
> On 3/29/22 8:52 AM, Frank Berger wrote:
> > On 3/28/2022 9:58 PM, Andrew Clarke wrote:
>
> >> I would think so, unless Germany, like the USA, does not allow its
> >> citizens to use titles bestowed by other countries. Cf Bob Hope, Georg
> >> Solti and other foreign nationals who were given honorary knighthoods
> >> in the past. Solti later became a British citizen and was able to
> >> style himself Sir Georg. Sir Simon may of course choose to renounce
> >> the title or not style himself "Sir".
> > Wait. Is there really a law in the U.S. preventing me from calling
> > myself Sir Frank?
> I hope this doesn't affect Sir Mix-A-Lot or the late Sir Douglas of
> Quintet fame.

Frank and Sir Mix A-Lot are not affected. However, under the foreign emoluments clause --
Article I

Section 9
Clause 8

No Title of Nobility shall be granted by the United States: And no Person holding any Office of Profit or Trust under them, shall, without the Consent of the Congress, accept of any present, Emolument, Office, or Title, of any kind whatever, from any King, Prince, or foreign State.