On Thursday, March 31, 2022 at 7:57:42 AM UTC+11, Graham wrote:

> Menuhin, a long-term UK resident, was given an honorary knighthood but
> couldn't use the title until he took out citizenship. He was later ennobled.

'Oh I'll tak' the High Tinck an' you tak' the Low Tinck,
An' I'll get a knighthood afore ye ...'

Bernard Haitinck - the Dutch conductor, not Frank's cousin in Mamaroneck - received not only an honorary knighthood, but, I've just discovered, an honorary Companion of Honour as well. Again, the CH is often seen as more valuable than a knighthood, being in the sovereign's gift and not subject to political pressures.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

On 2022-03-31 6:41 p.m., Andrew Clarke wrote:
> On Thursday, March 31, 2022 at 7:57:42 AM UTC+11, Graham wrote:
>
>> Menuhin, a long-term UK resident, was given an honorary knighthood but
>> couldn't use the title until he took out citizenship. He was later ennobled.
>
> 'Oh I'll tak' the High Tinck an' you tak' the Low Tinck,
> An' I'll get a knighthood afore ye ...'
>
> Bernard Haitinck - the Dutch conductor, not Frank's cousin in Mamaroneck - received not only an honorary knighthood, but, I've just discovered, an honorary Companion of Honour as well. Again, the CH is often seen as more valuable than a knighthood, being in the sovereign's gift and not subject to political pressures.
>
And the number of honorees is strictly limited whereas knighthoods are
dispensed like confetti.

On Friday, April 1, 2022 at 3:20:43 AM UTC+11, Frank Berger wrote:
> On 3/30/2022 11:26 PM, Andrew Clarke wrote:
> > On Thursday, March 31, 2022 at 1:56:18 PM UTC+11, Bob Harper wrote:
> >
> >> But Andrew, courtesy so so old-fashioned, innit? No, not really; more
> >> courtesy would make this a better world, as I think you and I both
> >> understand.
> >>
> >
> > The most effortlessly courteous people I've ever met were members of a male voice choir from Chattanooga.
> >
> > Andrew Clarke
> > Canberra
> Among the set of all character traits, I'm not sure courtesy ranks very high. Besides, courtesy can be faked and it can be shallow.

I'd much rather have a fake courteous conversation than a sincere flame war.
Isn't courtesy more a question of accepted social convention rather than a character trait?

Incidentally, I suspect that future historians of the late twentieth century might well consider how Usenet, a golden opportunity for courteous cooperation, rapidly turned into a conduit for personal abuse between strangers.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

On Friday, April 1, 2022 at 2:58:26 AM UTC+11, MickeyBoy wrote:
> On Wednesday, March 30, 2022 at 10:26:57 PM UTC-5, andrewc...@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> > The most effortlessly courteous people I've ever met were members of a male voice choir from Chattanooga.
> >
> > Andrew Clarke
> > Canberra
> Agreed about the triumph of woke offense and the demise of simple courtesy. The most naturally and openly courteous exchange I ever had was with a few members of the University of Oklahoma wrestling team on a flight to St Louis. The conversation was so engaging that the stewardess thought I was their coach. This was well before woke progressivism overtook American higher education.

Maybe they thought you were Leonard Slatkin?

Mr Slatkin also has a knighthood, btw, as he's a Chevalier of the French Legion of Honour, and rightly so. I've just discovered, btw, that Mr Slatkin, Marin Alsop and Kenneth Jean are the only American conductors in my collection ...

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

On Friday, April 1, 2022 at 11:52:04 AM UTC+11, Graham wrote:
> On 2022-03-31 6:41 p.m., Andrew Clarke wrote:
> > On Thursday, March 31, 2022 at 7:57:42 AM UTC+11, Graham wrote:
> >
> >> Menuhin, a long-term UK resident, was given an honorary knighthood but
> >> couldn't use the title until he took out citizenship. He was later ennobled.
> >
> > 'Oh I'll tak' the High Tinck an' you tak' the Low Tinck,
> > An' I'll get a knighthood afore ye ...'
> >
> > Bernard Haitinck - the Dutch conductor, not Frank's cousin in Mamaroneck - received not only an honorary knighthood, but, I've just discovered, an honorary Companion of Honour as well. Again, the CH is often seen as more valuable than a knighthood, being in the sovereign's gift and not subject to political pressures.
> >
> And the number of honorees is strictly limited whereas knighthoods are
> dispensed like confetti.

Sir Michael Jagger does give one pause for thought, not to mention the late Dame Barbara Windsor. I wonder if anybody at all addresses the former as 'Sir Mick'?

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

On 3/31/2022 8:15 PM, Andrew Clarke wrote:
> On Friday, April 1, 2022 at 1:25:39 AM UTC+11, Frank Berger wrote:
>> On 3/31/2022 12:28 AM, Graham wrote:
>>> On 2022-03-30 9:08 p.m., Andrew Clarke wrote:
>>>> On Thursday, March 31, 2022 at 8:37:32 AM UTC+11, Frank Berger wrote:
>>>>> On 3/30/2022 3:33 PM, Andrew Clarke wrote:
>>>>>> On Thursday, March 31, 2022 at 4:37:24 AM UTC+11, Owen wrote:
>>>>>>> On 3/29/22 2:26 PM, number_six wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, March 29, 2022 at 7:13:02 AM UTC-7, MINe109 wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 3/29/22 8:52 AM, Frank Berger wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 3/28/2022 9:58 PM, Andrew Clarke wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I would think so, unless Germany, like the USA, does not allow its
>>>>>>>>>>> citizens to use titles bestowed by other countries. Cf Bob Hope, Georg
>>>>>>>>>>> Solti and other foreign nationals who were given honorary knighthoods
>>>>>>>>>>> in the past. Solti later became a British citizen and was able to
>>>>>>>>>>> style himself Sir Georg. Sir Simon may of course choose to renounce
>>>>>>>>>>> the title or not style himself "Sir".
>>>>>>>>>> Wait. Is there really a law in the U.S. preventing me from calling
>>>>>>>>>> myself Sir Frank?
>>>>>>>>> I hope this doesn't affect Sir Mix-A-Lot or the late Sir Douglas of
>>>>>>>>> Quintet fame.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Frank and Sir Mix A-Lot are not affected. However, under the foreign emoluments clause --
>>>>>>>> Article I
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Section 9
>>>>>>>> Clause 8
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> No Title of Nobility shall be granted by the United States: And no Person holding any Office of Profit or Trust under them, shall, without the Consent of the Congress, accept of any present, Emolument, Office, or Title, of any kind whatever, from any King, Prince, or foreign State.
>>>>>>> Damn! And I paid ten bucks to purchase a square foot of land in
>>>>>>> Scotland, so now I have to relinquish my Lordship?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -Lord Owen
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> P.S. What about the Lord Almighty? Does he have to give that up too?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -O
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Owning a square foot of land in Scotland, even in the ancestral lands of the Clan McQuoren, may make you a laird but not a lord. You have to be a baron, viscount, earl or marquess to style yourself Lord Anything and unless you're a British citizen, you ain't going to get a peerage.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Meanwhile, Rattle has also been awarded the Order of Merit, which is generally regarded as more valuable than a knighthood as recipients of the latter are recommended to the sovereign by the Prime Minister of the day, and so are likely to be awarded for political reasons.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When push comes to shove, if I ever get to meet the President of the United States, which is unlikely, I shall address him as Mr President and not Sleepy Joe, Old Fishface or any other soubriquet, derogatory or otherwise, because that is the courteous thing to do. If I ever meet Sir John Eliot Gardiner - even less likely - I shall address him as Sir John, because that is the courteous thing to do also. Mind you, Sir Charles Groves, an excellent conductor long forgotten, was addressed by members of his orchestras as 'Charlie' both before and after his knighthood, but that, you see, was his decision.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Andrew Clarke
>>>>>> Canberra
>>>>> In the mid 50's I, along with thousands of others, acquired, from a Quaker Oats cereal box, a deed showing ownership of 1 square inch of land in Alaska. A little research shows the deed said the owners were obligated to pay Alaskan property taxes, and that, failing to do so, ownership of the "property" would revert to Alaska. I suppose that is what happened to my property. Thing is, I never received a bill for those taxes. How could I pay without being billed? I'm going to hire a lawyer and get my property back and, to the point, declare myself lord. Maybe that square inch is directly under a pipeline and they will have to pay back, and future, rent. Yeah.
>>>>
>>>> Baron Berger of Ketchican - addressed as Lord Berger - does have a certain ring to it, except you would be endlessly parodied as Baron Hamburger of Ketchup. I'm afraid this is the best we can do, as the British Sovereign has only created barons in the past forty years.
>>>
>>> Apart from the hereditary Earldom given to Harold MacMillan in 1984.
>>>
>>> These are now always Life Peerages, which end at the recipient's death so your oldest surviving son will not inherit.
>>>>
>>>> Andrew Clarke
>>>> Canberra
>>>>
>>>
>> We are talking about my title in my one square inch domain in Alaska. I don't care about no stinkin' British title. And as I have no son, my title will pass to one of my daughters. I don't know which one. I haven't yet determined the rules of succession.
>
> Unfortunately the Rules of Succession have already been determined, and if you have no male issue, the title goes to your nearest male relative, e.g. your cousin Bernie in Mamaroneck. If you had been given an hereditary title your daughters would already be called either The Honourable Sonia Berger or Lady Sonia Berger, but not Lady Berger, who would be the wife of a knight. Magdalena could use this style if she wanted to, but as yet I've never heard of her doing this. Kissin' Kozenas yes, Lady Rattle, no.
>
> Andrew Clarke
> Canberra

Again, those are GB rules not mine.

On 3/31/2022 9:00 PM, Andrew Clarke wrote:
> On Friday, April 1, 2022 at 3:20:43 AM UTC+11, Frank Berger wrote:
>> On 3/30/2022 11:26 PM, Andrew Clarke wrote:
>>> On Thursday, March 31, 2022 at 1:56:18 PM UTC+11, Bob Harper wrote:
>>>
>>>> But Andrew, courtesy so so old-fashioned, innit? No, not really; more
>>>> courtesy would make this a better world, as I think you and I both
>>>> understand.
>>>>
>>>
>>> The most effortlessly courteous people I've ever met were members of a male voice choir from Chattanooga.
>>>
>>> Andrew Clarke
>>> Canberra
>> Among the set of all character traits, I'm not sure courtesy ranks very high. Besides, courtesy can be faked and it can be shallow.
>
> I'd much rather have a fake courteous conversation than a sincere flame war.

I think there would be no point to such a conversation.

> Isn't courtesy more a question of accepted social convention rather than a character trait?

Not necessarily.

>
> Incidentally, I suspect that future historians of the late twentieth century might well consider how Usenet, a golden opportunity for courteous cooperation, rapidly turned into a conduit for personal abuse between strangers.
>

Simple. You can't get punched in the nose over the internet. The threat of being banned is less of a deterrent.

> Andrew Clarke
> Canberra

On 3/31/2022 11:58 AM, MickeyBoy wrote:
> On Wednesday, March 30, 2022 at 10:26:57 PM UTC-5, andrewc...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> The most effortlessly courteous people I've ever met were members of a male voice choir from Chattanooga.
>>
>> Andrew Clarke
>> Canberra
>
> Agreed about the triumph of woke offense and the demise of simple courtesy. The most naturally and openly courteous exchange I ever had was with a few members of the University of Oklahoma wrestling team on a >flight to St Louis. The conversation was so engaging that the stewardess thought I was their coach. This was well before woke progressivism overtook American higher education.

I once had a very civil conversation about the legality of the second Iraq war with a very pleasant record store clerk in Madison, Wisconsin. He, of course, took the position that the war was illegal and that George Bush was a war criminal. I trotted out my argument that as the Iraqi government was not representative and ours is, we had every moral right to overthrow it, if we felt like it. (Whether that was a good idea is a different question). I don't remember the details of the conversation, but it was respectful.

I think this took place at the Exclusive Co. which still exists, but I believe does not have a store in Madison.

On 2022-03-31 7:12 p.m., Andrew Clarke wrote:
> On Friday, April 1, 2022 at 11:52:04 AM UTC+11, Graham wrote:
>> On 2022-03-31 6:41 p.m., Andrew Clarke wrote:
>>> On Thursday, March 31, 2022 at 7:57:42 AM UTC+11, Graham wrote:
>>>
>>>> Menuhin, a long-term UK resident, was given an honorary knighthood but
>>>> couldn't use the title until he took out citizenship. He was later ennobled.
>>>
>>> 'Oh I'll tak' the High Tinck an' you tak' the Low Tinck,
>>> An' I'll get a knighthood afore ye ...'
>>>
>>> Bernard Haitinck - the Dutch conductor, not Frank's cousin in Mamaroneck - received not only an honorary knighthood, but, I've just discovered, an honorary Companion of Honour as well. Again, the CH is often seen as more valuable than a knighthood, being in the sovereign's gift and not subject to political pressures.
>>>
>> And the number of honorees is strictly limited whereas knighthoods are
>> dispensed like confetti.
>
> Sir Michael Jagger does give one pause for thought, not to mention the late Dame Barbara Windsor. I wonder if anybody at all addresses the former as 'Sir Mick'?
>

Only when they're taking it!

On Friday, April 1, 2022 at 1:32:49 PM UTC+11, Frank Berger wrote:
> On 3/31/2022 8:15 PM, Andrew Clarke wrote:
> > On Friday, April 1, 2022 at 1:25:39 AM UTC+11, Frank Berger wrote:
> >> On 3/31/2022 12:28 AM, Graham wrote:
> >>> On 2022-03-30 9:08 p.m., Andrew Clarke wrote:
> >>>> On Thursday, March 31, 2022 at 8:37:32 AM UTC+11, Frank Berger wrote:
> >>>>> On 3/30/2022 3:33 PM, Andrew Clarke wrote:
> >>>>>> On Thursday, March 31, 2022 at 4:37:24 AM UTC+11, Owen wrote:
> >>>>>>> On 3/29/22 2:26 PM, number_six wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On Tuesday, March 29, 2022 at 7:13:02 AM UTC-7, MINe109 wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> On 3/29/22 8:52 AM, Frank Berger wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> On 3/28/2022 9:58 PM, Andrew Clarke wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> I would think so, unless Germany, like the USA, does not allow its
> >>>>>>>>>>> citizens to use titles bestowed by other countries. Cf Bob Hope, Georg
> >>>>>>>>>>> Solti and other foreign nationals who were given honorary knighthoods
> >>>>>>>>>>> in the past. Solti later became a British citizen and was able to
> >>>>>>>>>>> style himself Sir Georg. Sir Simon may of course choose to renounce
> >>>>>>>>>>> the title or not style himself "Sir".
> >>>>>>>>>> Wait. Is there really a law in the U.S. preventing me from calling
> >>>>>>>>>> myself Sir Frank?
> >>>>>>>>> I hope this doesn't affect Sir Mix-A-Lot or the late Sir Douglas of
> >>>>>>>>> Quintet fame.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Frank and Sir Mix A-Lot are not affected. However, under the foreign emoluments clause --
> >>>>>>>> Article I
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Section 9
> >>>>>>>> Clause 8
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> No Title of Nobility shall be granted by the United States: And no Person holding any Office of Profit or Trust under them, shall, without the Consent of the Congress, accept of any present, Emolument, Office, or Title, of any kind whatever, from any King, Prince, or foreign State.
> >>>>>>> Damn! And I paid ten bucks to purchase a square foot of land in
> >>>>>>> Scotland, so now I have to relinquish my Lordship?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> -Lord Owen
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> P.S. What about the Lord Almighty? Does he have to give that up too?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> -O
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Owning a square foot of land in Scotland, even in the ancestral lands of the Clan McQuoren, may make you a laird but not a lord. You have to be a baron, viscount, earl or marquess to style yourself Lord Anything and unless you're a British citizen, you ain't going to get a peerage.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Meanwhile, Rattle has also been awarded the Order of Merit, which is generally regarded as more valuable than a knighthood as recipients of the latter are recommended to the sovereign by the Prime Minister of the day, and so are likely to be awarded for political reasons.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> When push comes to shove, if I ever get to meet the President of the United States, which is unlikely, I shall address him as Mr President and not Sleepy Joe, Old Fishface or any other soubriquet, derogatory or otherwise, because that is the courteous thing to do. If I ever meet Sir John Eliot Gardiner - even less likely - I shall address him as Sir John, because that is the courteous thing to do also. Mind you, Sir Charles Groves, an excellent conductor long forgotten, was addressed by members of his orchestras as 'Charlie' both before and after his knighthood, but that, you see, was his decision.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Andrew Clarke
> >>>>>> Canberra
> >>>>> In the mid 50's I, along with thousands of others, acquired, from a Quaker Oats cereal box, a deed showing ownership of 1 square inch of land in Alaska. A little research shows the deed said the owners were obligated to pay Alaskan property taxes, and that, failing to do so, ownership of the "property" would revert to Alaska. I suppose that is what happened to my property. Thing is, I never received a bill for those taxes. How could I pay without being billed? I'm going to hire a lawyer and get my property back and, to the point, declare myself lord. Maybe that square inch is directly under a pipeline and they will have to pay back, and future, rent. Yeah.
> >>>>
> >>>> Baron Berger of Ketchican - addressed as Lord Berger - does have a certain ring to it, except you would be endlessly parodied as Baron Hamburger of Ketchup. I'm afraid this is the best we can do, as the British Sovereign has only created barons in the past forty years.
> >>>
> >>> Apart from the hereditary Earldom given to Harold MacMillan in 1984.
> >>>
> >>> These are now always Life Peerages, which end at the recipient's death so your oldest surviving son will not inherit.
> >>>>
> >>>> Andrew Clarke
> >>>> Canberra
> >>>>
> >>>
> >> We are talking about my title in my one square inch domain in Alaska. I don't care about no stinkin' British title. And as I have no son, my title will pass to one of my daughters. I don't know which one. I haven't yet determined the rules of succession.
> >
> > Unfortunately the Rules of Succession have already been determined, and if you have no male issue, the title goes to your nearest male relative, e..g. your cousin Bernie in Mamaroneck. If you had been given an hereditary title your daughters would already be called either The Honourable Sonia Berger or Lady Sonia Berger, but not Lady Berger, who would be the wife of a knight. Magdalena could use this style if she wanted to, but as yet I've never heard of her doing this. Kissin' Kozenas yes, Lady Rattle, no.
> >
> > Andrew Clarke
> > Canberra
> Again, those are GB rules not mine.

Frank, you can't go around behaving like a Berger King!

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

On Friday, April 1, 2022 at 1:40:42 PM UTC+11, Frank Berger wrote:
> On 3/31/2022 9:00 PM, Andrew Clarke wrote:
> > On Friday, April 1, 2022 at 3:20:43 AM UTC+11, Frank Berger wrote:
> >> On 3/30/2022 11:26 PM, Andrew Clarke wrote:
> >>> On Thursday, March 31, 2022 at 1:56:18 PM UTC+11, Bob Harper wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> But Andrew, courtesy so so old-fashioned, innit? No, not really; more
> >>>> courtesy would make this a better world, as I think you and I both
> >>>> understand.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> The most effortlessly courteous people I've ever met were members of a male voice choir from Chattanooga.
> >>>
> >>> Andrew Clarke
> >>> Canberra
> >> Among the set of all character traits, I'm not sure courtesy ranks very high. Besides, courtesy can be faked and it can be shallow.
> >
> > I'd much rather have a fake courteous conversation than a sincere flame war.
> I think there would be no point to such a conversation.

I think there is a whole lot of point in a courteous conversation in a group like this one, especially where we have representatives of two nations divided by a common language. The recent example of the use of 'fine' as in 'a fine performance' is very much a case in point. There would have been no point in my losing my temper about 'typical bloody Yanks who don't understand that the rest of the world doesn't necessarily use the English language the same way that they do' ;-) for example. You have to step back, analyse the situation and attempt a reasonably considerate response.

> > Isn't courtesy more a question of accepted social convention rather than a character trait?
> Not necessarily.

I am beginning to think that people use the word "courteous" in more than one way. I mean good manners and restraint, and the use of certain conventions which have evolved over centuries to prevent unnecessary conflict when, very often, none is justified.

> >
> > Incidentally, I suspect that future historians of the late twentieth century might well consider how Usenet, a golden opportunity for courteous cooperation, rapidly turned into a conduit for personal abuse between strangers.
> >
> Simple. You can't get punched in the nose over the internet. The threat of being banned is less of a deterrent.

But why on earth would any reasonably well brought-up or reasonably educated person want to start a flame war in the first place? People who can appreciate opera who turned their own newsgroup into a sewer? It's behaviour more appropriate to a schoolyard in a crime-ridden neighbourhood where nobody's graduated from high school in fifty years. All this wonderful technology being used as verbal toilet paper. What a waste.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

On Thursday, March 31, 2022 at 11:57:07 PM UTC-7, andrewc...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> But why on earth would any reasonably
> well brought-up or reasonably educated
> person want to start a flame war in the
> first place?

Ask Nero ...... ;-)

dk

On Friday, April 1, 2022 at 9:50:32 PM UTC+11, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, March 31, 2022 at 11:57:07 PM UTC-7, andrewc...@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> > But why on earth would any reasonably
> > well brought-up or reasonably educated
> > person want to start a flame war in the
> > first place?
> Ask Nero ...... ;-)
>
> dk

The metaphor is apt. Times are hard and will get harder. Even Philippe Jaroussky has had to take a job in a car wash to make ends meet:

<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYc_rHlNz7U>

This is, btw a brilliant production.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

On 3/31/2022 11:57 PM, Andrew Clarke wrote:
> On Friday, April 1, 2022 at 1:32:49 PM UTC+11, Frank Berger wrote:
>> On 3/31/2022 8:15 PM, Andrew Clarke wrote:
>>> On Friday, April 1, 2022 at 1:25:39 AM UTC+11, Frank Berger wrote:
>>>> On 3/31/2022 12:28 AM, Graham wrote:
>>>>> On 2022-03-30 9:08 p.m., Andrew Clarke wrote:
>>>>>> On Thursday, March 31, 2022 at 8:37:32 AM UTC+11, Frank Berger wrote:
>>>>>>> On 3/30/2022 3:33 PM, Andrew Clarke wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Thursday, March 31, 2022 at 4:37:24 AM UTC+11, Owen wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 3/29/22 2:26 PM, number_six wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, March 29, 2022 at 7:13:02 AM UTC-7, MINe109 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/29/22 8:52 AM, Frank Berger wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/28/2022 9:58 PM, Andrew Clarke wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would think so, unless Germany, like the USA, does not allow its
>>>>>>>>>>>>> citizens to use titles bestowed by other countries. Cf Bob Hope, Georg
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Solti and other foreign nationals who were given honorary knighthoods
>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the past. Solti later became a British citizen and was able to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> style himself Sir Georg. Sir Simon may of course choose to renounce
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the title or not style himself "Sir".
>>>>>>>>>>>> Wait. Is there really a law in the U.S. preventing me from calling
>>>>>>>>>>>> myself Sir Frank?
>>>>>>>>>>> I hope this doesn't affect Sir Mix-A-Lot or the late Sir Douglas of
>>>>>>>>>>> Quintet fame.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Frank and Sir Mix A-Lot are not affected. However, under the foreign emoluments clause --
>>>>>>>>>> Article I
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Section 9
>>>>>>>>>> Clause 8
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> No Title of Nobility shall be granted by the United States: And no Person holding any Office of Profit or Trust under them, shall, without the Consent of the Congress, accept of any present, Emolument, Office, or Title, of any kind whatever, from any King, Prince, or foreign State.
>>>>>>>>> Damn! And I paid ten bucks to purchase a square foot of land in
>>>>>>>>> Scotland, so now I have to relinquish my Lordship?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -Lord Owen
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> P.S. What about the Lord Almighty? Does he have to give that up too?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -O
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Owning a square foot of land in Scotland, even in the ancestral lands of the Clan McQuoren, may make you a laird but not a lord. You have to be a baron, viscount, earl or marquess to style yourself Lord Anything and unless you're a British citizen, you ain't going to get a peerage.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Meanwhile, Rattle has also been awarded the Order of Merit, which is generally regarded as more valuable than a knighthood as recipients of the latter are recommended to the sovereign by the Prime Minister of the day, and so are likely to be awarded for political reasons.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> When push comes to shove, if I ever get to meet the President of the United States, which is unlikely, I shall address him as Mr President and not Sleepy Joe, Old Fishface or any other soubriquet, derogatory or otherwise, because that is the courteous thing to do. If I ever meet Sir John Eliot Gardiner - even less likely - I shall address him as Sir John, because that is the courteous thing to do also. Mind you, Sir Charles Groves, an excellent conductor long forgotten, was addressed by members of his orchestras as 'Charlie' both before and after his knighthood, but that, you see, was his decision.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Andrew Clarke
>>>>>>>> Canberra
>>>>>>> In the mid 50's I, along with thousands of others, acquired, from a Quaker Oats cereal box, a deed showing ownership of 1 square inch of land in Alaska. A little research shows the deed said the owners were obligated to pay Alaskan property taxes, and that, failing to do so, ownership of the "property" would revert to Alaska. I suppose that is what happened to my property. Thing is, I never received a bill for those taxes. How could I pay without being billed? I'm going to hire a lawyer and get my property back and, to the point, declare myself lord. Maybe that square inch is directly under a pipeline and they will have to pay back, and future, rent. Yeah.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Baron Berger of Ketchican - addressed as Lord Berger - does have a certain ring to it, except you would be endlessly parodied as Baron Hamburger of Ketchup. I'm afraid this is the best we can do, as the British Sovereign has only created barons in the past forty years.
>>>>>
>>>>> Apart from the hereditary Earldom given to Harold MacMillan in 1984.
>>>>>
>>>>> These are now always Life Peerages, which end at the recipient's death so your oldest surviving son will not inherit.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Andrew Clarke
>>>>>> Canberra
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> We are talking about my title in my one square inch domain in Alaska. I don't care about no stinkin' British title. And as I have no son, my title will pass to one of my daughters. I don't know which one. I haven't yet determined the rules of succession.
>>>
>>> Unfortunately the Rules of Succession have already been determined, and if you have no male issue, the title goes to your nearest male relative, e.g. your cousin Bernie in Mamaroneck. If you had been given an hereditary title your daughters would already be called either The Honourable Sonia Berger or Lady Sonia Berger, but not Lady Berger, who would be the wife of a knight. Magdalena could use this style if she wanted to, but as yet I've never heard of her doing this. Kissin' Kozenas yes, Lady Rattle, no.
>>>
>>> Andrew Clarke
>>> Canberra
>> Again, those are GB rules not mine.
>
> Frank, you can't go around behaving like a Berger King!
>
> Andrew Clarke
> Canberra

You will have to invade my 1 square inch kingdom to stop me.

On 4/1/2022 2:57 AM, Andrew Clarke wrote:
> On Friday, April 1, 2022 at 1:40:42 PM UTC+11, Frank Berger wrote:
>> On 3/31/2022 9:00 PM, Andrew Clarke wrote:
>>> On Friday, April 1, 2022 at 3:20:43 AM UTC+11, Frank Berger wrote:
>>>> On 3/30/2022 11:26 PM, Andrew Clarke wrote:
>>>>> On Thursday, March 31, 2022 at 1:56:18 PM UTC+11, Bob Harper wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> But Andrew, courtesy so so old-fashioned, innit? No, not really; more
>>>>>> courtesy would make this a better world, as I think you and I both
>>>>>> understand.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The most effortlessly courteous people I've ever met were members of a male voice choir from Chattanooga.
>>>>>
>>>>> Andrew Clarke
>>>>> Canberra
>>>> Among the set of all character traits, I'm not sure courtesy ranks very high. Besides, courtesy can be faked and it can be shallow.
>>>
>>> I'd much rather have a fake courteous conversation than a sincere flame war.
>> I think there would be no point to such a conversation.
>
> I think there is a whole lot of point in a courteous conversation in a group like this one, especially where we have representatives of two nations divided by a common language. The recent example of the use of 'fine' as in 'a fine performance' is very much a case in point. There would have been no point in my losing my temper about 'typical bloody Yanks who don't understand that the rest of the world doesn't necessarily use the English language the same way that they do' ;-) for example. You have to step back, analyse the situation and attempt a reasonably considerate response.
>
>>> Isn't courtesy more a question of accepted social convention rather than a character trait?
>> Not necessarily.
>
> I am beginning to think that people use the word "courteous" in more than one way. I mean good manners and restraint, and the use of certain conventions which have evolved over centuries to prevent unnecessary conflict when, very often, none is justified.
>
>>>
>>> Incidentally, I suspect that future historians of the late twentieth century might well consider how Usenet, a golden opportunity for courteous cooperation, rapidly turned into a conduit for personal abuse between strangers.
>>>
>> Simple. You can't get punched in the nose over the internet. The threat of being banned is less of a deterrent.
>
> But why on earth would any reasonably well brought-up or reasonably educated person want to start a flame war in the first place? People who can appreciate opera who turned their own newsgroup into a sewer? It's behaviour more appropriate to a schoolyard in a crime-ridden neighbourhood where nobody's graduated from high school in fifty years. All this wonderful technology being used as verbal toilet paper. What a waste.
>
>
> Andrew Clarke
> Canberra

A person can act in a courteous manner because it comes innately to him. A person can act in a courteous manner because he is trying to behave in a way he wants to improve himself. He act in a courteous manner because he thinks it is socially acceptable. He can also be faking for ulterior motives. I don't think conversations with each of these individuals is likely to be equally productive. I agree that screaming and yelling and name calling and demonizing people who disagree with you is never productive, though I suppose it might make you feel better.

On 3/31/22 7:18 PM, Frank Berger wrote:
> On 3/31/2022 4:19 PM, Owen wrote:
>> On 3/31/22 10:25 AM, Frank Berger wrote:
>>> On 3/31/2022 12:28 AM, Graham wrote:
>>>> On 2022-03-30 9:08 p.m., Andrew Clarke wrote:
>>>>> On Thursday, March 31, 2022 at 8:37:32 AM UTC+11, Frank Berger wrote:
>>>>>> On 3/30/2022 3:33 PM, Andrew Clarke wrote:
>>>>>>> On Thursday, March 31, 2022 at 4:37:24 AM UTC+11, Owen wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 3/29/22 2:26 PM, number_six wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, March 29, 2022 at 7:13:02 AM UTC-7, MINe109 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 3/29/22 8:52 AM, Frank Berger wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/28/2022 9:58 PM, Andrew Clarke wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I would think so, unless Germany, like the USA, does not
>>>>>>>>>>>> allow its
>>>>>>>>>>>> citizens to use titles bestowed by other countries. Cf Bob
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hope, Georg
>>>>>>>>>>>> Solti and other foreign nationals who were given honorary
>>>>>>>>>>>> knighthoods
>>>>>>>>>>>> in the past. Solti later became a British citizen and was
>>>>>>>>>>>> able to
>>>>>>>>>>>> style himself Sir Georg. Sir Simon may of course choose to
>>>>>>>>>>>> renounce
>>>>>>>>>>>> the title or not style himself "Sir".
>>>>>>>>>>> Wait. Is there really a law in the U.S. preventing me from
>>>>>>>>>>> calling
>>>>>>>>>>> myself Sir Frank?
>>>>>>>>>> I hope this doesn't affect Sir Mix-A-Lot or the late Sir
>>>>>>>>>> Douglas of
>>>>>>>>>> Quintet fame.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Frank and Sir Mix A-Lot are not affected. However, under the
>>>>>>>>> foreign emoluments clause --
>>>>>>>>> Article I
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Section 9
>>>>>>>>> Clause 8
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> No Title of Nobility shall be granted by the United States: And
>>>>>>>>> no Person holding any Office of Profit or Trust under them,
>>>>>>>>> shall, without the Consent of the Congress, accept of any
>>>>>>>>> present, Emolument, Office, or Title, of any kind whatever,
>>>>>>>>> from any King, Prince, or foreign State.
>>>>>>>> Damn! And I paid ten bucks to purchase a square foot of land in
>>>>>>>> Scotland, so now I have to relinquish my Lordship?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -Lord Owen
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> P.S. What about the Lord Almighty? Does he have to give that up
>>>>>>>> too?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -O
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Owning a square foot of land in Scotland, even in the ancestral
>>>>>>> lands of the Clan McQuoren, may make you a laird but not a lord.
>>>>>>> You have to be a baron, viscount, earl or marquess to style
>>>>>>> yourself Lord Anything and unless you're a British citizen, you
>>>>>>> ain't going to get a peerage.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Meanwhile, Rattle has also been awarded the Order of Merit, which
>>>>>>> is generally regarded as more valuable than a knighthood as
>>>>>>> recipients of the latter are recommended to the sovereign by the
>>>>>>> Prime Minister of the day, and so are likely to be awarded for
>>>>>>> political reason  As.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> When push comes to shove, if I ever get to meet the President of
>>>>>>> the United States, which is unlikely, I shall address him as Mr
>>>>>>> President and not Sleepy Joe, Old Fishface or any other
>>>>>>> soubriquet, derogatory or otherwise, because that is the
>>>>>>> courteous thing to do. If I ever meet Sir John Eliot Gardiner -
>>>>>>> even less likely - I shall address him as Sir John, because that
>>>>>>> is the courteous thing to do also. Mind you, Sir Charles Groves,
>>>>>>> an excellent conductor long forgotten, was addressed by members
>>>>>>> of his orchestras as 'Charlie' both before and after his
>>>>>>> knighthood, but that, you see, was his decision.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Andrew Clarke
>>>>>>> Canberra
>>>>>> In the mid 50's I, along with thousands of others, acquired, from
>>>>>> a Quaker Oats cereal box, a deed showing ownership of 1 square
>>>>>> inch of land in Alaska. A little research shows the deed said the
>>>>>> owners were obligated to pay Alaskan property taxes, and that,
>>>>>> failing to do so, ownership of the "property" would revert to
>>>>>> Alaska. I suppose that is what happened to my property. Thing is,
>>>>>> I never received a bill for those taxes. How could I pay without
>>>>>> being billed? I'm going to hire a lawyer and get my property back
>>>>>> and, to the point, declare myself lord. Maybe that square inch is
>>>>>> directly under a pipeline and they will have to pay back, and
>>>>>> future, rent. Yeah.
>>>>>
>>>>> Baron Berger of Ketchican - addressed as Lord Berger - does have a
>>>>> certain ring to it, except you would be endlessly parodied as Baron
>>>>> Hamburger of Ketchup.  I'm afraid this is the best we can do, as
>>>>> the British Sovereign has only created barons in the past forty years.
>>>>
>>>> Apart from the hereditary Earldom given to Harold MacMillan in 1984.
>>>>
>>>> These are now always Life Peerages, which end at the recipient's
>>>> death so your oldest surviving son will not inherit.
>>>>>
>>>>> Andrew Clarke
>>>>> Canberra
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> We are talking about my title in my one square inch domain in
>>> Alaska.  I don't care about no stinkin' British title.  And as I have
>>> no son, my title will pass to one of my daughters.  I don't know
>>> which one.  I haven't yet determined the rules of succession.
>>
>> Since you didn't pay your taxes (not getting a bill is no excuse!),
>> your inch has probably been taken for tax title and is not under any
>> pipeline but a grizzly bear has left some former personal property on it.
>>
>> -Owen
>
>
> How am I supposed to pay my taxes without getting a bill.  The whole
> thing was a fraud. After I sue and win, I will be able afford cleaning
> up the bear poop.

I'm afraid that the legal mechanism for resolving this is arbitration,
requiring a personal appearance by both you and the bear.

-Owen

On 4/1/2022 11:44 AM, Owen wrote:
> On 3/31/22 7:18 PM, Frank Berger wrote:
>> On 3/31/2022 4:19 PM, Owen wrote:
>>> On 3/31/22 10:25 AM, Frank Berger wrote:
>>>> On 3/31/2022 12:28 AM, Graham wrote:
>>>>> On 2022-03-30 9:08 p.m., Andrew Clarke wrote:
>>>>>> On Thursday, March 31, 2022 at 8:37:32 AM UTC+11, Frank Berger wrote:
>>>>>>> On 3/30/2022 3:33 PM, Andrew Clarke wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Thursday, March 31, 2022 at 4:37:24 AM UTC+11, Owen wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 3/29/22 2:26 PM, number_six wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, March 29, 2022 at 7:13:02 AM UTC-7, MINe109 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/29/22 8:52 AM, Frank Berger wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/28/2022 9:58 PM, Andrew Clarke wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would think so, unless Germany, like the USA, does not allow its
>>>>>>>>>>>>> citizens to use titles bestowed by other countries. Cf Bob Hope, Georg
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Solti and other foreign nationals who were given honorary knighthoods
>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the past. Solti later became a British citizen and was able to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> style himself Sir Georg. Sir Simon may of course choose to renounce
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the title or not style himself "Sir".
>>>>>>>>>>>> Wait. Is there really a law in the U.S. preventing me from calling
>>>>>>>>>>>> myself Sir Frank?
>>>>>>>>>>> I hope this doesn't affect Sir Mix-A-Lot or the late Sir Douglas of
>>>>>>>>>>> Quintet fame.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Frank and Sir Mix A-Lot are not affected. However, under the foreign emoluments clause --
>>>>>>>>>> Article I
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Section 9
>>>>>>>>>> Clause 8
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> No Title of Nobility shall be granted by the United States: And no Person holding any Office of Profit or Trust under them, shall, without the Consent of the Congress, accept of any present, Emolument, Office, or Title, of any kind whatever, from any King, Prince, or foreign State.
>>>>>>>>> Damn! And I paid ten bucks to purchase a square foot of land in
>>>>>>>>> Scotland, so now I have to relinquish my Lordship?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -Lord Owen
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> P.S. What about the Lord Almighty? Does he have to give that up too?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -O
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Owning a square foot of land in Scotland, even in the ancestral lands of the Clan McQuoren, may make you a laird but not a lord. You have to be a baron, viscount, earl or marquess to style yourself Lord Anything and unless you're a British citizen, you ain't going to get a peerage.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Meanwhile, Rattle has also been awarded the Order of Merit, which is generally regarded as more valuable than a knighthood as recipients of the latter are recommended to the sovereign by the Prime Minister of the day, and so are likely to be awarded for political reason  As.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> When push comes to shove, if I ever get to meet the President of the United States, which is unlikely, I shall address him as Mr President and not Sleepy Joe, Old Fishface or any other soubriquet, derogatory or otherwise, because that is the courteous thing to do. If I ever meet Sir John Eliot Gardiner - even less likely - I shall address him as Sir John, because that is the courteous thing to do also. Mind you, Sir Charles Groves, an excellent conductor long forgotten, was addressed by members of his orchestras as 'Charlie' both before and after his knighthood, but that, you see, was his decision.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Andrew Clarke
>>>>>>>> Canberra
>>>>>>> In the mid 50's I, along with thousands of others, acquired, from a Quaker Oats cereal box, a deed showing ownership of 1 square inch of land in Alaska. A little research shows the deed said the owners were obligated to pay Alaskan property taxes, and that, failing to do so, ownership of the "property" would revert to Alaska. I suppose that is what happened to my property. Thing is, I never received a bill for those taxes. How could I pay without being billed? I'm going to hire a lawyer and get my property back and, to the point, declare myself lord. Maybe that square inch is directly under a pipeline and they will have to pay back, and future, rent. Yeah.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Baron Berger of Ketchican - addressed as Lord Berger - does have a certain ring to it, except you would be endlessly parodied as Baron Hamburger of Ketchup.  I'm afraid this is the best we can do, as the British Sovereign has only created barons in the past forty years.
>>>>>
>>>>> Apart from the hereditary Earldom given to Harold MacMillan in 1984.
>>>>>
>>>>> These are now always Life Peerages, which end at the recipient's death so your oldest surviving son will not inherit.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Andrew Clarke
>>>>>> Canberra
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We are talking about my title in my one square inch domain in Alaska.  I don't care about no stinkin' British title.  And as I have no son, my title will pass to one of my daughters.  I don't know which one.  I haven't yet determined the rules of succession.
>>>
>>> Since you didn't pay your taxes (not getting a bill is no excuse!), your inch has probably been taken for tax title and is not under any pipeline but a grizzly bear has left some former personal property on it.
>>>
>>> -Owen
>>
>>
>> How am I supposed to pay my taxes without getting a bill.  The whole thing was a fraud. After I sue and win, I will be able afford cleaning up the bear poop.
>
>
> I'm afraid that the legal mechanism for resolving this is arbitration, requiring a personal appearance by both you and the bear.
>
> -Owen

Seriously, I suppose this has been dealt with. Sounds like a class action suit to me.

On Saturday, April 2, 2022 at 3:25:36 AM UTC+11, Frank Berger wrote:
> On 4/1/2022 11:44 AM, Owen wrote:
> > On 3/31/22 7:18 PM, Frank Berger wrote:
> >> On 3/31/2022 4:19 PM, Owen wrote:
> >>> On 3/31/22 10:25 AM, Frank Berger wrote:
> >>>> On 3/31/2022 12:28 AM, Graham wrote:
> >>>>> On 2022-03-30 9:08 p.m., Andrew Clarke wrote:
> >>>>>> On Thursday, March 31, 2022 at 8:37:32 AM UTC+11, Frank Berger wrote:
> >>>>>>> On 3/30/2022 3:33 PM, Andrew Clarke wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On Thursday, March 31, 2022 at 4:37:24 AM UTC+11, Owen wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> On 3/29/22 2:26 PM, number_six wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, March 29, 2022 at 7:13:02 AM UTC-7, MINe109 wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>> On 3/29/22 8:52 AM, Frank Berger wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/28/2022 9:58 PM, Andrew Clarke wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I would think so, unless Germany, like the USA, does not allow its
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> citizens to use titles bestowed by other countries. Cf Bob Hope, Georg
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Solti and other foreign nationals who were given honorary knighthoods
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> in the past. Solti later became a British citizen and was able to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> style himself Sir Georg. Sir Simon may of course choose to renounce
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> the title or not style himself "Sir".
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Wait. Is there really a law in the U.S. preventing me from calling
> >>>>>>>>>>>> myself Sir Frank?
> >>>>>>>>>>> I hope this doesn't affect Sir Mix-A-Lot or the late Sir Douglas of
> >>>>>>>>>>> Quintet fame.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Frank and Sir Mix A-Lot are not affected. However, under the foreign emoluments clause --
> >>>>>>>>>> Article I
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Section 9
> >>>>>>>>>> Clause 8
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> No Title of Nobility shall be granted by the United States: And no Person holding any Office of Profit or Trust under them, shall, without the Consent of the Congress, accept of any present, Emolument, Office, or Title, of any kind whatever, from any King, Prince, or foreign State.
> >>>>>>>>> Damn! And I paid ten bucks to purchase a square foot of land in
> >>>>>>>>> Scotland, so now I have to relinquish my Lordship?
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> -Lord Owen
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> P.S. What about the Lord Almighty? Does he have to give that up too?
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> -O
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Owning a square foot of land in Scotland, even in the ancestral lands of the Clan McQuoren, may make you a laird but not a lord. You have to be a baron, viscount, earl or marquess to style yourself Lord Anything and unless you're a British citizen, you ain't going to get a peerage.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Meanwhile, Rattle has also been awarded the Order of Merit, which is generally regarded as more valuable than a knighthood as recipients of the latter are recommended to the sovereign by the Prime Minister of the day, and so are likely to be awarded for political reason As.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> When push comes to shove, if I ever get to meet the President of the United States, which is unlikely, I shall address him as Mr President and not Sleepy Joe, Old Fishface or any other soubriquet, derogatory or otherwise, because that is the courteous thing to do. If I ever meet Sir John Eliot Gardiner - even less likely - I shall address him as Sir John, because that is the courteous thing to do also. Mind you, Sir Charles Groves, an excellent conductor long forgotten, was addressed by members of his orchestras as 'Charlie' both before and after his knighthood, but that, you see, was his decision.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Andrew Clarke
> >>>>>>>> Canberra
> >>>>>>> In the mid 50's I, along with thousands of others, acquired, from a Quaker Oats cereal box, a deed showing ownership of 1 square inch of land in Alaska. A little research shows the deed said the owners were obligated to pay Alaskan property taxes, and that, failing to do so, ownership of the "property" would revert to Alaska. I suppose that is what happened to my property. Thing is, I never received a bill for those taxes. How could I pay without being billed? I'm going to hire a lawyer and get my property back and, to the point, declare myself lord. Maybe that square inch is directly under a pipeline and they will have to pay back, and future, rent. Yeah.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Baron Berger of Ketchican - addressed as Lord Berger - does have a certain ring to it, except you would be endlessly parodied as Baron Hamburger of Ketchup. I'm afraid this is the best we can do, as the British Sovereign has only created barons in the past forty years.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Apart from the hereditary Earldom given to Harold MacMillan in 1984..
> >>>>>
> >>>>> These are now always Life Peerages, which end at the recipient's death so your oldest surviving son will not inherit.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Andrew Clarke
> >>>>>> Canberra
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> We are talking about my title in my one square inch domain in Alaska.. I don't care about no stinkin' British title. And as I have no son, my title will pass to one of my daughters. I don't know which one. I haven't yet determined the rules of succession.
> >>>
> >>> Since you didn't pay your taxes (not getting a bill is no excuse!), your inch has probably been taken for tax title and is not under any pipeline but a grizzly bear has left some former personal property on it.
> >>>
> >>> -Owen
> >>
> >>
> >> How am I supposed to pay my taxes without getting a bill. The whole thing was a fraud. After I sue and win, I will be able afford cleaning up the bear poop.
> >
> >
> > I'm afraid that the legal mechanism for resolving this is arbitration, requiring a personal appearance by both you and the bear.
> >
> > -Owen
> Seriously, I suppose this has been dealt with. Sounds like a class action suit to me.

Bears with class used to be a feature of rec.music.opera in the good old days ....

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

On Thursday, March 31, 2022 at 10:25:39 AM UTC-4, Frank Berger wrote:

> We are talking about my title in my one square inch domain in Alaska. I don't care about no stinkin' British title. And as I have no son, my title will pass to one of my daughters. I don't know which one. I haven't yet determined the rules of succession.

An interesting way to divide such an inheritance might be to ask your daughters to say which doth love you most.

Joe Markley
Plantsville, Connecticut

On 4/4/2022 3:35 PM, Joe wrote:
> On Thursday, March 31, 2022 at 10:25:39 AM UTC-4, Frank Berger wrote:
>
>> We are talking about my title in my one square inch domain in Alaska. I don't care about no stinkin' British title. And as I have no son, my title will pass to one of my daughters. I don't know which one. I haven't yet determined the rules of succession.
>
> An interesting way to divide such an inheritance might be to ask your daughters to say which doth love you most.

I am going to tell each of them that she is the inheritor and not to believe it if any of here sisters claim otherwise.
>
> Joe Markley
> Plantsville, Connecticut