On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 16:31:09 -0400, J. Clarke
<jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:

>>I'm trying to remember where I recently saw coverage
>>that indirectly implies it would be a good idea. Quora?
>>That Canadian roofs currently are meant to stand up
>>to quite a lot of snow, but sometimes don't.

Must be talking about Toronto which is one of the few places on the
planet where you can own both a snow blower and air conditionings and
not be considered crazy (Says this smug Vancouverite who spent 4 years
living there 30 years ago and has no desire to go back)

On Thu, 24 Jun 2021 22:11:16 -0700, The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca>
wrote:

>On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 16:31:09 -0400, J. Clarke
><jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>>I'm trying to remember where I recently saw coverage
>>>that indirectly implies it would be a good idea. Quora?
>>>That Canadian roofs currently are meant to stand up
>>>to quite a lot of snow, but sometimes don't.
>
>Must be talking about Toronto which is one of the few places on the
>planet where you can own both a snow blower and air conditionings and
>not be considered crazy (Says this smug Vancouverite who spent 4 years
>living there 30 years ago and has no desire to go back)

I guess Connecticut, Ohio, and Massachusetts are also among those "few
places".

In article <48padgtshnoa2ot4t2mqdb710lkeechs49@4ax.com>,
The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
>On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 16:31:09 -0400, J. Clarke
><jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>>I'm trying to remember where I recently saw coverage
>>>that indirectly implies it would be a good idea. Quora?
>>>That Canadian roofs currently are meant to stand up
>>>to quite a lot of snow, but sometimes don't.
>
>Must be talking about Toronto which is one of the few places on the
>planet where you can own both a snow blower and air conditionings and
>not be considered crazy (Says this smug Vancouverite who spent 4 years
>living there 30 years ago and has no desire to go back)

I think ice storms are more likely to bring down a roof than straight snow
but we get those too. Had a great double whammy a few years back where a
summer windstorm weakened a lot of trees in Kitchener and then an early
winter ice storm overloaded them and finished a bunch off.

--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

In article <48padgtshnoa2ot4t2mqdb710lkeechs49@4ax.com>,
The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
>On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 16:31:09 -0400, J. Clarke
><jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>>I'm trying to remember where I recently saw coverage
>>>that indirectly implies it would be a good idea. Quora?
>>>That Canadian roofs currently are meant to stand up
>>>to quite a lot of snow, but sometimes don't.
>
>Must be talking about Toronto which is one of the few places on the
>planet where you can own both a snow blower and air conditionings and
>not be considered crazy (Says this smug Vancouverite who spent 4 years
>living there 30 years ago and has no desire to go back)

I went to a con in Vancouver once. It was July, and the weather
was perfect. How are you doing up there, heat- and drought-wise?
We're not so well off, down in California.

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

On Fri, 25 Jun 2021 14:44:37 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
Heydt) wrote:

>In article <48padgtshnoa2ot4t2mqdb710lkeechs49@4ax.com>,
>The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
>>On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 16:31:09 -0400, J. Clarke
>><jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>I'm trying to remember where I recently saw coverage
>>>>that indirectly implies it would be a good idea. Quora?
>>>>That Canadian roofs currently are meant to stand up
>>>>to quite a lot of snow, but sometimes don't.
>>
>>Must be talking about Toronto which is one of the few places on the
>>planet where you can own both a snow blower and air conditionings and
>>not be considered crazy (Says this smug Vancouverite who spent 4 years
>>living there 30 years ago and has no desire to go back)
>
>I went to a con in Vancouver once. It was July, and the weather
>was perfect. How are you doing up there, heat- and drought-wise?
>We're not so well off, down in California.

The maps I see stop at the North Border of Washington.

I doubt that the heat does.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

On 2021-06-25, The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 16:31:09 -0400, J. Clarke
><jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>>I'm trying to remember where I recently saw coverage
>>>that indirectly implies it would be a good idea. Quora?
>>>That Canadian roofs currently are meant to stand up
>>>to quite a lot of snow, but sometimes don't.
>
> Must be talking about Toronto which is one of the few places on the
> planet where you can own both a snow blower and air conditionings and
> not be considered crazy (Says this smug Vancouverite who spent 4 years
> living there 30 years ago and has no desire to go back)

Assuming that if you live in the most urban areas, you don't need a snow
blower personally because you expect the city to take care of the streets
and sidewalks...

I'm pretty sure the zone of "snow blower and a/c both desirable" extends
from mid-Maine down through Pennsylvania and westward to the Mississippi.

-dsr-

On Friday, June 25, 2021 at 1:11:21 AM UTC-4, The Horny Goat wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 16:31:09 -0400, J. Clarke
> <jclarke...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>I'm trying to remember where I recently saw coverage
> >>that indirectly implies it would be a good idea. Quora?
> >>That Canadian roofs currently are meant to stand up
> >>to quite a lot of snow, but sometimes don't.
> Must be talking about Toronto which is one of the few places on the
> planet where you can own both a snow blower and air conditionings and
> not be considered crazy (Says this smug Vancouverite who spent 4 years
> living there 30 years ago and has no desire to go back)

My air conditioner is being replaced even as I type. I do need it, but not
as much as I used to. My time in Texas did me good. I can recall thinking that Toronto
summers were very hot, and a Vancouver transplant I knew at the time ran away to Scotland
to avoid them, but they don't seem so bad now.

Until about six years ago I shoveled the driveway (slowly, well aware of the fate of Cyril Kornbluth) but
my neighbor acquired a snowblower and does now does my driveway, among
others. I try to get out with my shovel before he does, but he's a very early
riser and I distinctly am not.

William Hyde

In article <slrnsdc39o.du2.dsr-usenet@randomstring.org>,
-dsr- <dsr-usenet@randomstring.org> wrote:
>On 2021-06-25, The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
>> On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 16:31:09 -0400, J. Clarke
>><jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>I'm trying to remember where I recently saw coverage
>>>>that indirectly implies it would be a good idea. Quora?
>>>>That Canadian roofs currently are meant to stand up
>>>>to quite a lot of snow, but sometimes don't.
>>
>> Must be talking about Toronto which is one of the few places on the
>> planet where you can own both a snow blower and air conditionings and
>> not be considered crazy (Says this smug Vancouverite who spent 4 years
>> living there 30 years ago and has no desire to go back)
>
>Assuming that if you live in the most urban areas, you don't need a snow
>blower personally because you expect the city to take care of the streets
>and sidewalks...
>
>I'm pretty sure the zone of "snow blower and a/c both desirable" extends
>from mid-Maine down through Pennsylvania and westward to the Mississippi.
>
Here in a part of California that's practically at sea level, we
don't need snow blowers. A/C is something we're supposed to
avoid using, to discourage power shortages. "Use fans" is the
recommendation. We have a fan in the west window, a table fan
pointed at me (as I sit in bed), and a table fan pointed at Hal
(when he comes to bed).

We also have a humongous great oak tree to our west (on the
neighbor's property, but it still shades us), which helps a lot.

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

In article <0f462253-82c7-4278-b44b-9dd3987b24b4n@googlegroups.com>,
William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Friday, June 25, 2021 at 1:11:21 AM UTC-4, The Horny Goat wrote:
>> On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 16:31:09 -0400, J. Clarke
>> <jclarke...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >>I'm trying to remember where I recently saw coverage
>> >>that indirectly implies it would be a good idea. Quora?
>> >>That Canadian roofs currently are meant to stand up
>> >>to quite a lot of snow, but sometimes don't.
>> Must be talking about Toronto which is one of the few places on the
>> planet where you can own both a snow blower and air conditionings and
>> not be considered crazy (Says this smug Vancouverite who spent 4 years
>> living there 30 years ago and has no desire to go back)
>
>My air conditioner is being replaced even as I type. I do need it, but not
>as much as I used to. My time in Texas did me good. I can recall
>thinking that Toronto
>summers were very hot, and a Vancouver transplant I knew at the time ran
>away to Scotland
>to avoid them, but they don't seem so bad now.
>
>
>Until about six years ago I shoveled the driveway (slowly, well aware
>of the fate of Cyril Kornbluth) but
>my neighbor acquired a snowblower and does now does my driveway, among
>others. I try to get out with my shovel before he does, but he's a very early
>riser and I distinctly am not.

Cherish him. Do you bake? Find out what kind of cookies he
likes.

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

On Friday, June 25, 2021 at 3:00:16 PM UTC-4, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article <0f462253-82c7-4278...@googlegroups.com>,
> William Hyde <wthyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Friday, June 25, 2021 at 1:11:21 AM UTC-4, The Horny Goat wrote:
> >> On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 16:31:09 -0400, J. Clarke
> >> <jclarke...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >>I'm trying to remember where I recently saw coverage
> >> >>that indirectly implies it would be a good idea. Quora?
> >> >>That Canadian roofs currently are meant to stand up
> >> >>to quite a lot of snow, but sometimes don't.
> >> Must be talking about Toronto which is one of the few places on the
> >> planet where you can own both a snow blower and air conditionings and
> >> not be considered crazy (Says this smug Vancouverite who spent 4 years
> >> living there 30 years ago and has no desire to go back)
> >
> >My air conditioner is being replaced even as I type. I do need it, but not
> >as much as I used to. My time in Texas did me good. I can recall
> >thinking that Toronto
> >summers were very hot, and a Vancouver transplant I knew at the time ran
> >away to Scotland
> >to avoid them, but they don't seem so bad now.
> >
> >
> >Until about six years ago I shoveled the driveway (slowly, well aware
> >of the fate of Cyril Kornbluth) but
> >my neighbor acquired a snowblower and does now does my driveway, among
> >others. I try to get out with my shovel before he does, but he's a very early
> >riser and I distinctly am not.
> Cherish him. Do you bake? Find out what kind of cookies he
> likes.

I buy him beer and her wine.

They are very nice people. Known them for decades.

The real issue is the guy across the street. Eighty years old with a quadruple bypass, he still insists
on shoveling his driveway. And he is an early riser. Got to move fast to stop him from killing
himself.

William Hyde

On Friday, June 25, 2021 at 5:58:39 AM UTC-4, J. Clarke wrote:
> On Thu, 24 Jun 2021 22:11:16 -0700, The Horny Goat <lcr...@home.ca>
> wrote:
> >On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 16:31:09 -0400, J. Clarke
> ><jclarke...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >>>I'm trying to remember where I recently saw coverage
> >>>that indirectly implies it would be a good idea. Quora?
> >>>That Canadian roofs currently are meant to stand up
> >>>to quite a lot of snow, but sometimes don't.
> >
> >Must be talking about Toronto which is one of the few places on the
> >planet where you can own both a snow blower and air conditionings and
> >not be considered crazy (Says this smug Vancouverite who spent 4 years
> >living there 30 years ago and has no desire to go back)
> I guess Connecticut, Ohio, and Massachusetts are also among those "few
> places".

Add Wisconsin and New York - and downstate New York, at that.
One might get more use out of an ice chopper than a snowblower
on Long Island, most years, but while heavy snow is rare, it happens.
Northern New Jersey, PA, Indiana, Illinois homes might have both forms
of tech.

My dad never bought a snowblower. He had 4 boys, 5 girls and
multiple shovels. We cleared the drives and the walks first, then
went to play in the snow. If one planned ahead, the driveway
snow could be employed in snow fort construction. One year
we turned the back stoop into a "ski jump" for our sleds and coasters.

The more mercenary among us took the shovels and looked
for paying customers elsewhere in the neighborhood.

I remember the 2013 blizzard in CT. The town I lived and
worked in got 38 inches. The hardware item in short supply
a few years earlier when we had several smaller, but still
significant storms, was the "roof rake," used to fight the
buildup of "ice dams."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/February_2013_North_American_blizzard

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_dam_(roof)

Living on the Atlantic, one year can be very light as far as snow goes,
with the next one quite heavy.

--
Kevin R

On Friday, June 25, 2021 at 1:08:06 PM UTC-4, -dsr- wrote:
> On 2021-06-25, The Horny Goat <lcr...@home.ca> wrote:
> > On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 16:31:09 -0400, J. Clarke
> ><jclarke...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >>>I'm trying to remember where I recently saw coverage
> >>>that indirectly implies it would be a good idea. Quora?
> >>>That Canadian roofs currently are meant to stand up
> >>>to quite a lot of snow, but sometimes don't.
> >
> > Must be talking about Toronto which is one of the few places on the
> > planet where you can own both a snow blower and air conditionings and
> > not be considered crazy (Says this smug Vancouverite who spent 4 years
> > living there 30 years ago and has no desire to go back)
> Assuming that if you live in the most urban areas, you don't need a snow
> blower personally because you expect the city to take care of the streets
> and sidewalks...
>

Streets? Yes, though some towns do a poor job of it.

Sidewalks are the responsibility of the property owner.
Landlords may require the tenant to clear the walk,
especially if the building is a single-family residence.
It's a good idea to agree who takes care of that before
moving in. Where I've lived, not clearing the walk can
result in municipal citations and fines. Worst case,
the city clears the snow and adds the cost of doing so
to the owner's property tax bill if the ticket isn't paid
promptly.
> I'm pretty sure the zone of "snow blower and a/c both desirable" extends
> from mid-Maine down through Pennsylvania and westward to the Mississippi.
>

Farther west than that, I'm afraid.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/16/weather/west-heat-wave-records-drought-climate/index.html

--
Kevin R

In article <ce9fbbfd-e948-4ad4-ae3e-6815f9288ff4n@googlegroups.com>,
William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Friday, June 25, 2021 at 3:00:16 PM UTC-4, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>> In article <0f462253-82c7-4278...@googlegroups.com>,
>> William Hyde <wthyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >On Friday, June 25, 2021 at 1:11:21 AM UTC-4, The Horny Goat wrote:
>> >> On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 16:31:09 -0400, J. Clarke
>> >> <jclarke...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >>I'm trying to remember where I recently saw coverage
>> >> >>that indirectly implies it would be a good idea. Quora?
>> >> >>That Canadian roofs currently are meant to stand up
>> >> >>to quite a lot of snow, but sometimes don't.
>> >> Must be talking about Toronto which is one of the few places on the
>> >> planet where you can own both a snow blower and air conditionings and
>> >> not be considered crazy (Says this smug Vancouverite who spent 4 years
>> >> living there 30 years ago and has no desire to go back)
>> >
>> >My air conditioner is being replaced even as I type. I do need it, but not
>> >as much as I used to. My time in Texas did me good. I can recall
>> >thinking that Toronto
>> >summers were very hot, and a Vancouver transplant I knew at the time ran
>> >away to Scotland
>> >to avoid them, but they don't seem so bad now.
>> >
>> >
>> >Until about six years ago I shoveled the driveway (slowly, well aware
>> >of the fate of Cyril Kornbluth) but
>> >my neighbor acquired a snowblower and does now does my driveway, among
>> >others. I try to get out with my shovel before he does, but he's a
>very early
>> >riser and I distinctly am not.
>> Cherish him. Do you bake? Find out what kind of cookies he
>> likes.
>
>I buy him beer and her wine.
>
>They are very nice people. Known them for decades.
>
>The real issue is the guy across the street. Eighty years old with a
>quadruple bypass, he still insists
>on shoveling his driveway. And he is an early riser. Got to move fast
>to stop him from killing
>himself.
>
Well, keep trying. He sounds like one worth preserving.

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

In article <a4e20c7b-d55b-47b4-92cf-f69c7084ef6fn@googlegroups.com>,
Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> wrote:
>On Friday, June 25, 2021 at 1:08:06 PM UTC-4, -dsr- wrote:
>> On 2021-06-25, The Horny Goat <lcr...@home.ca> wrote:
>> > On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 16:31:09 -0400, J. Clarke
>> ><jclarke...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >>>I'm trying to remember where I recently saw coverage
>> >>>that indirectly implies it would be a good idea. Quora?
>> >>>That Canadian roofs currently are meant to stand up
>> >>>to quite a lot of snow, but sometimes don't.
>> >
>> > Must be talking about Toronto which is one of the few places on the
>> > planet where you can own both a snow blower and air conditionings and
>> > not be considered crazy (Says this smug Vancouverite who spent 4 years
>> > living there 30 years ago and has no desire to go back)
>> Assuming that if you live in the most urban areas, you don't need a snow
>> blower personally because you expect the city to take care of the streets
>> and sidewalks...
>>
>
>Streets? Yes, though some towns do a poor job of it.
>
>Sidewalks are the responsibility of the property owner.
>Landlords may require the tenant to clear the walk,
>especially if the building is a single-family residence.
>It's a good idea to agree who takes care of that before
>moving in. Where I've lived, not clearing the walk can
>result in municipal citations and fines. Worst case,
>the city clears the snow and adds the cost of doing so
>to the owner's property tax bill if the ticket isn't paid
>promptly.
>
>> I'm pretty sure the zone of "snow blower and a/c both desirable" extends
>> from mid-Maine down through Pennsylvania and westward to the Mississippi.
>>
>
>Farther west than that, I'm afraid.
>
>https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/16/weather/west-heat-wave-records-drought-climate/index.html
>
But we seldom get snow at sea level; snow is something that you
make sure you have chains for the car, then pack the kids into
warm clothing and drive a couple hundred miles eastward into the
Sierras for.

The last time we had any snow on the ground (and it was a light
dusting) was in 1978 or thereabouts.

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

On Fri, 25 Jun 2021 13:29:29 -0700 (PDT), Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com>
wrote:

>On Friday, June 25, 2021 at 5:58:39 AM UTC-4, J. Clarke wrote:
>> On Thu, 24 Jun 2021 22:11:16 -0700, The Horny Goat <lcr...@home.ca>
>> wrote:
>> >On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 16:31:09 -0400, J. Clarke
>> ><jclarke...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >>>I'm trying to remember where I recently saw coverage
>> >>>that indirectly implies it would be a good idea. Quora?
>> >>>That Canadian roofs currently are meant to stand up
>> >>>to quite a lot of snow, but sometimes don't.
>> >
>> >Must be talking about Toronto which is one of the few places on the
>> >planet where you can own both a snow blower and air conditionings and
>> >not be considered crazy (Says this smug Vancouverite who spent 4 years
>> >living there 30 years ago and has no desire to go back)
>> I guess Connecticut, Ohio, and Massachusetts are also among those "few
>> places".
>
>Add Wisconsin and New York - and downstate New York, at that.
>One might get more use out of an ice chopper than a snowblower
>on Long Island, most years, but while heavy snow is rare, it happens.
>Northern New Jersey, PA, Indiana, Illinois homes might have both forms
>of tech.
>
>My dad never bought a snowblower. He had 4 boys, 5 girls and
>multiple shovels. We cleared the drives and the walks first, then
>went to play in the snow. If one planned ahead, the driveway
>snow could be employed in snow fort construction. One year
>we turned the back stoop into a "ski jump" for our sleds and coasters.
>
>The more mercenary among us took the shovels and looked
>for paying customers elsewhere in the neighborhood.
>
>I remember the 2013 blizzard in CT.

That was the year that some arsewipe stole my snowblower. Knowing the
storm was coming I got it out, tuned it up, made sure it was working,
and left it with a cover on it near the back door. Came out to blow
snow and no snowblower.

The replacement, same brand, is a piece of crap--the old one worked
fine for more than 30 years. The new one reliably throws its drive
belt every fall. Note that it is a well known problem, with multiple
fixes, some official, some not, all of which I have tried and none of
which work. The ultimate fix if I ever get around to it will involve a
lathe a big chunk of barstock although at that point I think I'd be
money ahead to just get a Honda and be done with it.

>The town I lived and
>worked in got 38 inches. The hardware item in short supply
>a few years earlier when we had several smaller, but still
>significant storms, was the "roof rake," used to fight the
>buildup of "ice dams."
>
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/February_2013_North_American_blizzard
>
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_dam_(roof)
>
>Living on the Atlantic, one year can be very light as far as snow goes,
>with the next one quite heavy.

Those ice dams are a pain, especially in a house like mine where
there's no overhang, so they fall on and bust the gas meter, the
electric meter and all kinds of other stuff.

On Friday, June 25, 2021 at 6:45:24 PM UTC-4, J. Clarke wrote:
> On Fri, 25 Jun 2021 13:29:29 -0700 (PDT), Kevrob <kev...@my-deja.com>
> wrote:
> >On Friday, June 25, 2021 at 5:58:39 AM UTC-4, J. Clarke wrote:
> >> On Thu, 24 Jun 2021 22:11:16 -0700, The Horny Goat <lcr...@home.ca>
> >> wrote:
> >> >On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 16:31:09 -0400, J. Clarke
> >> ><jclarke...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >>>I'm trying to remember where I recently saw coverage
> >> >>>that indirectly implies it would be a good idea. Quora?
> >> >>>That Canadian roofs currently are meant to stand up
> >> >>>to quite a lot of snow, but sometimes don't.
> >> >
> >> >Must be talking about Toronto which is one of the few places on the
> >> >planet where you can own both a snow blower and air conditionings and
> >> >not be considered crazy (Says this smug Vancouverite who spent 4 years
> >> >living there 30 years ago and has no desire to go back)
> >> I guess Connecticut, Ohio, and Massachusetts are also among those "few
> >> places".
> >
> >Add Wisconsin and New York - and downstate New York, at that.
> >One might get more use out of an ice chopper than a snowblower
> >on Long Island, most years, but while heavy snow is rare, it happens.
> >Northern New Jersey, PA, Indiana, Illinois homes might have both forms
> >of tech.
> >
> >My dad never bought a snowblower. He had 4 boys, 5 girls and
> >multiple shovels. We cleared the drives and the walks first, then
> >went to play in the snow. If one planned ahead, the driveway
> >snow could be employed in snow fort construction. One year
> >we turned the back stoop into a "ski jump" for our sleds and coasters.
> >
> >The more mercenary among us took the shovels and looked
> >for paying customers elsewhere in the neighborhood.
> >
> >I remember the 2013 blizzard in CT.
> That was the year that some arsewipe stole my snowblower. Knowing the
> storm was coming I got it out, tuned it up, made sure it was working,
> and left it with a cover on it near the back door. Came out to blow
> snow and no snowblower.
>
> The replacement, same brand, is a piece of crap--the old one worked
> fine for more than 30 years. The new one reliably throws its drive
> belt every fall. Note that it is a well known problem, with multiple
> fixes, some official, some not, all of which I have tried and none of
> which work. The ultimate fix if I ever get around to it will involve a
> lathe a big chunk of barstock although at that point I think I'd be
> money ahead to just get a Honda and be done with it.
> >The town I lived and
> >worked in got 38 inches. The hardware item in short supply
> >a few years earlier when we had several smaller, but still
> >significant storms, was the "roof rake," used to fight the
> >buildup of "ice dams."
> >
> >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/February_2013_North_American_blizzard
> >
> >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_dam_(roof)
> >
> >Living on the Atlantic, one year can be very light as far as snow goes,
> >with the next one quite heavy.
> Those ice dams are a pain, especially in a house like mine where
> there's no overhang, so they fall on and bust the gas meter, the
> electric meter and all kinds of other stuff.

I'm a little confused. Roof rakes remove unconsolidated snow, the
weight of which is a risk. An ice dam forms when heat from the house
causes snowmelt to flow down to the snow on overhanging eaves, where
it refreezes. This can build up until water leaks in over the bottom row of
shingles.

Clearing the roof of snow can prevent this, but I've found that electric
heating cables that maintain drain channels through the dams far more
practical. I don't think about roof rakes until the snow on the roof is 3 feet deep.

Pt

On Fri, 25 Jun 2021 16:15:40 -0700 (PDT), "pete...@gmail.com"
<petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Friday, June 25, 2021 at 6:45:24 PM UTC-4, J. Clarke wrote:
>> On Fri, 25 Jun 2021 13:29:29 -0700 (PDT), Kevrob <kev...@my-deja.com>
>> wrote:
>> >On Friday, June 25, 2021 at 5:58:39 AM UTC-4, J. Clarke wrote:
>> >> On Thu, 24 Jun 2021 22:11:16 -0700, The Horny Goat <lcr...@home.ca>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> >On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 16:31:09 -0400, J. Clarke
>> >> ><jclarke...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >>>I'm trying to remember where I recently saw coverage
>> >> >>>that indirectly implies it would be a good idea. Quora?
>> >> >>>That Canadian roofs currently are meant to stand up
>> >> >>>to quite a lot of snow, but sometimes don't.
>> >> >
>> >> >Must be talking about Toronto which is one of the few places on the
>> >> >planet where you can own both a snow blower and air conditionings and
>> >> >not be considered crazy (Says this smug Vancouverite who spent 4 years
>> >> >living there 30 years ago and has no desire to go back)
>> >> I guess Connecticut, Ohio, and Massachusetts are also among those "few
>> >> places".
>> >
>> >Add Wisconsin and New York - and downstate New York, at that.
>> >One might get more use out of an ice chopper than a snowblower
>> >on Long Island, most years, but while heavy snow is rare, it happens.
>> >Northern New Jersey, PA, Indiana, Illinois homes might have both forms
>> >of tech.
>> >
>> >My dad never bought a snowblower. He had 4 boys, 5 girls and
>> >multiple shovels. We cleared the drives and the walks first, then
>> >went to play in the snow. If one planned ahead, the driveway
>> >snow could be employed in snow fort construction. One year
>> >we turned the back stoop into a "ski jump" for our sleds and coasters.
>> >
>> >The more mercenary among us took the shovels and looked
>> >for paying customers elsewhere in the neighborhood.
>> >
>> >I remember the 2013 blizzard in CT.
>> That was the year that some arsewipe stole my snowblower. Knowing the
>> storm was coming I got it out, tuned it up, made sure it was working,
>> and left it with a cover on it near the back door. Came out to blow
>> snow and no snowblower.
>>
>> The replacement, same brand, is a piece of crap--the old one worked
>> fine for more than 30 years. The new one reliably throws its drive
>> belt every fall. Note that it is a well known problem, with multiple
>> fixes, some official, some not, all of which I have tried and none of
>> which work. The ultimate fix if I ever get around to it will involve a
>> lathe a big chunk of barstock although at that point I think I'd be
>> money ahead to just get a Honda and be done with it.
>> >The town I lived and
>> >worked in got 38 inches. The hardware item in short supply
>> >a few years earlier when we had several smaller, but still
>> >significant storms, was the "roof rake," used to fight the
>> >buildup of "ice dams."
>> >
>> >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/February_2013_North_American_blizzard
>> >
>> >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_dam_(roof)
>> >
>> >Living on the Atlantic, one year can be very light as far as snow goes,
>> >with the next one quite heavy.
>> Those ice dams are a pain, especially in a house like mine where
>> there's no overhang, so they fall on and bust the gas meter, the
>> electric meter and all kinds of other stuff.
>
>I'm a little confused. Roof rakes remove unconsolidated snow, the
>weight of which is a risk. An ice dam forms when heat from the house
>causes snowmelt to flow down to the snow on overhanging eaves, where
>it refreezes. This can build up until water leaks in over the bottom row of
>shingles.
>
>Clearing the roof of snow can prevent this, but I've found that electric
>heating cables that maintain drain channels through the dams far more
>practical. I don't think about roof rakes until the snow on the roof is 3 feet deep.

If you get a lot of snow then that makes sense. But in CT we don't.
It comes heavy when it comes but some years we don't get any to speak
of.

On Friday, June 25, 2021 at 9:24:48 PM UTC-4, J. Clarke wrote:
> On Fri, 25 Jun 2021 16:15:40 -0700 (PDT), "pete...@gmail.com"
> <pete...@gmail.com> wrote:
>

[snip]

> >Clearing the roof of snow can prevent this, but I've found that electric
> >heating cables that maintain drain channels through the dams far more
> >practical. I don't think about roof rakes until the snow on the roof is 3 feet deep.
> If you get a lot of snow then that makes sense. But in CT we don't.
> It comes heavy when it comes but some years we don't get any to speak
> of.

We can also have cycles of [snow-melt-snow-] interspersed with rain,
which sometimes freezes. Other times the rain helps wash the melting
snow away. It takes daytime low temperatures below normal for an
extended period to get real accumulation.

The year everyone decided they needed a roof rake the local hardware
stores, garden centers/nurseries and anywhere else that might carry
them ordered their stock based on a _normal_ year's snowfall. Getting
restocked could take awhile. I knew folks who hunted them down at the
remaining "mom-and-pop" shops in some of the more out-of-the-way
towns. Local old-timers already had their own. New arrivals didn't even
know what they were, let alone that they might need one.

If you had sent me to the store for a roof rake in 2009, I would have
suspected that a variant of the "left-handed pipe wrench" gag was in play.
I lived for decades in Milwaukee, and was aware that rooves might collapse
from too much snow, but I was an apartment-dweller. Maintaining the roof
was the landlord's job.

We did have a stalactite of an icicle take out our ground floor flat's
kitchen window in Jan `82. It must have fallen from the metal railing
of the back stairs, five floors up. This was a small-scale annoyance.
The smallest of the 4 bedrooms was off the kitchen, and its inhabitant
could sleep on the living room couch or at his girlfriend's, until the
window was repaired. Ice falling off buildings is a real hazard in
places like Chicago's Loop.

Typing about winter in June! "Winter" is over, as my favorite NHL
team lost game 7 of the Stanley Cup semi-final. {Ice hockey, for
those who don't know/care.}

--
Kevin R

On Fri, 25 Jun 2021 20:13:07 -0700 (PDT), Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com>
wrote:

>On Friday, June 25, 2021 at 9:24:48 PM UTC-4, J. Clarke wrote:
>> On Fri, 25 Jun 2021 16:15:40 -0700 (PDT), "pete...@gmail.com"
>> <pete...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>
>
>[snip]
>
>> >Clearing the roof of snow can prevent this, but I've found that electric
>> >heating cables that maintain drain channels through the dams far more
>> >practical. I don't think about roof rakes until the snow on the roof is 3 feet deep.
>> If you get a lot of snow then that makes sense. But in CT we don't.
>> It comes heavy when it comes but some years we don't get any to speak
>> of.
>
>We can also have cycles of [snow-melt-snow-] interspersed with rain,
>which sometimes freezes. Other times the rain helps wash the melting
>snow away. It takes daytime low temperatures below normal for an
>extended period to get real accumulation.
>
>The year everyone decided they needed a roof rake the local hardware
>stores, garden centers/nurseries and anywhere else that might carry
>them ordered their stock based on a _normal_ year's snowfall. Getting
>restocked could take awhile. I knew folks who hunted them down at the
>remaining "mom-and-pop" shops in some of the more out-of-the-way
>towns. Local old-timers already had their own. New arrivals didn't even
>know what they were, let alone that they might need one.
>
>If you had sent me to the store for a roof rake in 2009, I would have
>suspected that a variant of the "left-handed pipe wrench" gag was in play.
>I lived for decades in Milwaukee, and was aware that rooves might collapse
>from too much snow, but I was an apartment-dweller. Maintaining the roof
>was the landlord's job.
>
>We did have a stalactite of an icicle take out our ground floor flat's
>kitchen window in Jan `82. It must have fallen from the metal railing
>of the back stairs, five floors up. This was a small-scale annoyance.
>The smallest of the 4 bedrooms was off the kitchen, and its inhabitant
>could sleep on the living room couch or at his girlfriend's, until the
>window was repaired. Ice falling off buildings is a real hazard in
>places like Chicago's Loop.
>
>Typing about winter in June! "Winter" is over, as my favorite NHL
>team lost game 7 of the Stanley Cup semi-final. {Ice hockey, for
>those who don't know/care.}

I had an ice dam take out a window air conditioner a few years back.
Of course it took the window with it. When I started looking into the
repair I found the sill rotted out, and the framing underneath it, and
the sheathing, and a couple of studs . . .

>
>--
>Kevin R

On Friday, June 25, 2021 at 5:20:03 PM UTC-4, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article <ce9fbbfd-e948-4ad4...@googlegroups.com>,
> William Hyde <wthyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Friday, June 25, 2021 at 3:00:16 PM UTC-4, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> >> In article <0f462253-82c7-4278...@googlegroups.com>,
> >> William Hyde <wthyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >On Friday, June 25, 2021 at 1:11:21 AM UTC-4, The Horny Goat wrote:
> >> >> On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 16:31:09 -0400, J. Clarke
> >> >> <jclarke...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >>I'm trying to remember where I recently saw coverage
> >> >> >>that indirectly implies it would be a good idea. Quora?
> >> >> >>That Canadian roofs currently are meant to stand up
> >> >> >>to quite a lot of snow, but sometimes don't.
> >> >> Must be talking about Toronto which is one of the few places on the
> >> >> planet where you can own both a snow blower and air conditionings and
> >> >> not be considered crazy (Says this smug Vancouverite who spent 4 years
> >> >> living there 30 years ago and has no desire to go back)
> >> >
> >> >My air conditioner is being replaced even as I type. I do need it, but not
> >> >as much as I used to. My time in Texas did me good. I can recall
> >> >thinking that Toronto
> >> >summers were very hot, and a Vancouver transplant I knew at the time ran
> >> >away to Scotland
> >> >to avoid them, but they don't seem so bad now.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >Until about six years ago I shoveled the driveway (slowly, well aware
> >> >of the fate of Cyril Kornbluth) but
> >> >my neighbor acquired a snowblower and does now does my driveway, among
> >> >others. I try to get out with my shovel before he does, but he's a
> >very early
> >> >riser and I distinctly am not.
> >> Cherish him. Do you bake? Find out what kind of cookies he
> >> likes.
> >
> >I buy him beer and her wine.
> >
> >They are very nice people. Known them for decades.
> >
> >The real issue is the guy across the street. Eighty years old with a
> >quadruple bypass, he still insists
> >on shoveling his driveway. And he is an early riser. Got to move fast
> >to stop him from killing
> >himself.
> >
> Well, keep trying. He sounds like one worth preserving.

We must. If we lose him and a small number of others, I'll be the oldest person
on the street!

William Hyde

djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) writes:
>In article <slrnsdc39o.du2.dsr-usenet@randomstring.org>,
>-dsr- <dsr-usenet@randomstring.org> wrote:
>>On 2021-06-25, The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
>>> On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 16:31:09 -0400, J. Clarke
>>><jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>I'm trying to remember where I recently saw coverage
>>>>>that indirectly implies it would be a good idea. Quora?
>>>>>That Canadian roofs currently are meant to stand up
>>>>>to quite a lot of snow, but sometimes don't.
>>>
>>> Must be talking about Toronto which is one of the few places on the
>>> planet where you can own both a snow blower and air conditionings and
>>> not be considered crazy (Says this smug Vancouverite who spent 4 years
>>> living there 30 years ago and has no desire to go back)
>>
>>Assuming that if you live in the most urban areas, you don't need a snow
>>blower personally because you expect the city to take care of the streets
>>and sidewalks...
>>
>>I'm pretty sure the zone of "snow blower and a/c both desirable" extends
>>from mid-Maine down through Pennsylvania and westward to the Mississippi.
>>
>Here in a part of California that's practically at sea level, we
>don't need snow blowers. A/C is something we're supposed to
>avoid using, to discourage power shortages. "Use fans" is the
>recommendation. We have a fan in the west window, a table fan
>pointed at me (as I sit in bed), and a table fan pointed at Hal
>(when he comes to bed).

I've lived in California for almost forty years and have never
lived in a home with air conditioning. It really depends on
_where_ in the state you reside and how well designed your
domicile is (wide overhangs, well insulated, good windows
and cool (57-62F) evenings 98% of the time).

In article <QqLBI.117312$431.19809@fx39.iad>,
Scott Lurndal <slp53@pacbell.net> wrote:
>djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) writes:
>>In article <slrnsdc39o.du2.dsr-usenet@randomstring.org>,
>>-dsr- <dsr-usenet@randomstring.org> wrote:
>>>On 2021-06-25, The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 16:31:09 -0400, J. Clarke
>>>><jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>I'm trying to remember where I recently saw coverage
>>>>>>that indirectly implies it would be a good idea. Quora?
>>>>>>That Canadian roofs currently are meant to stand up
>>>>>>to quite a lot of snow, but sometimes don't.
>>>>
>>>> Must be talking about Toronto which is one of the few places on the
>>>> planet where you can own both a snow blower and air conditionings and
>>>> not be considered crazy (Says this smug Vancouverite who spent 4 years
>>>> living there 30 years ago and has no desire to go back)
>>>
>>>Assuming that if you live in the most urban areas, you don't need a snow
>>>blower personally because you expect the city to take care of the streets
>>>and sidewalks...
>>>
>>>I'm pretty sure the zone of "snow blower and a/c both desirable" extends
>>>from mid-Maine down through Pennsylvania and westward to the Mississippi.
>>>
>>Here in a part of California that's practically at sea level, we
>>don't need snow blowers. A/C is something we're supposed to
>>avoid using, to discourage power shortages. "Use fans" is the
>>recommendation. We have a fan in the west window, a table fan
>>pointed at me (as I sit in bed), and a table fan pointed at Hal
>>(when he comes to bed).
>
>I've lived in California for almost forty years and have never
>lived in a home with air conditioning. It really depends on
>_where_ in the state you reside and how well designed your
>domicile is (wide overhangs, well insulated, good windows
>and cool (57-62F) evenings 98% of the time).

Well, we're living in a house built in 1878, with an adapted
basement/in-law apartment built maybe in the 1950s? it's hard to
tell. There is an A/C unit in the master bedroom upstairs; we
use fans that blow cool (because shaded by that great big ol'
oak tree I mentioned upthread) into the main room, and two other
fans that redirect that air to Hal's and my sides of the bed,
respectively.

Currently we're getting temps in the high 70s, with occasional
days in the low 80s. We may be getting into the 90s as the
summer/fall goes on.

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

On 6/26/2021 1:07 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article <QqLBI.117312$431.19809@fx39.iad>,
> Scott Lurndal <slp53@pacbell.net> wrote:
>> djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) writes:
>>> In article <slrnsdc39o.du2.dsr-usenet@randomstring.org>,
>>> -dsr- <dsr-usenet@randomstring.org> wrote:
>>>> On 2021-06-25, The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 16:31:09 -0400, J. Clarke
>>>>> <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm trying to remember where I recently saw coverage
>>>>>>> that indirectly implies it would be a good idea. Quora?
>>>>>>> That Canadian roofs currently are meant to stand up
>>>>>>> to quite a lot of snow, but sometimes don't.
>>>>>
>>>>> Must be talking about Toronto which is one of the few places on the
>>>>> planet where you can own both a snow blower and air conditionings and
>>>>> not be considered crazy (Says this smug Vancouverite who spent 4 years
>>>>> living there 30 years ago and has no desire to go back)
>>>>
>>>> Assuming that if you live in the most urban areas, you don't need a snow
>>>> blower personally because you expect the city to take care of the streets
>>>> and sidewalks...
>>>>
>>>> I'm pretty sure the zone of "snow blower and a/c both desirable" extends
>>> >from mid-Maine down through Pennsylvania and westward to the Mississippi.
>>>>
>>> Here in a part of California that's practically at sea level, we
>>> don't need snow blowers. A/C is something we're supposed to
>>> avoid using, to discourage power shortages. "Use fans" is the
>>> recommendation. We have a fan in the west window, a table fan
>>> pointed at me (as I sit in bed), and a table fan pointed at Hal
>>> (when he comes to bed).
>>
>> I've lived in California for almost forty years and have never
>> lived in a home with air conditioning. It really depends on
>> _where_ in the state you reside and how well designed your
>> domicile is (wide overhangs, well insulated, good windows
>> and cool (57-62F) evenings 98% of the time).
>
> Well, we're living in a house built in 1878, with an adapted
> basement/in-law apartment built maybe in the 1950s? it's hard to
> tell. There is an A/C unit in the master bedroom upstairs; we
> use fans that blow cool (because shaded by that great big ol'
> oak tree I mentioned upthread) into the main room, and two other
> fans that redirect that air to Hal's and my sides of the bed,
> respectively.
>
> Currently we're getting temps in the high 70s, with occasional
> days in the low 80s. We may be getting into the 90s as the
> summer/fall goes on.
>
A bit west of you I've already seen several 100+ days this month.

--
Troll, troll, troll your post gently down the thread
Angrily, angrily, angrily, the net's a nut's scream.

In article <sb83v3$sa7$1@dont-email.me>,
Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>On 6/26/2021 1:07 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>> In article <QqLBI.117312$431.19809@fx39.iad>,
>> Scott Lurndal <slp53@pacbell.net> wrote:
>>> djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) writes:
>>>> In article <slrnsdc39o.du2.dsr-usenet@randomstring.org>,
>>>> -dsr- <dsr-usenet@randomstring.org> wrote:
>>>>> On 2021-06-25, The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
>>>>>> On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 16:31:09 -0400, J. Clarke
>>>>>> <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm trying to remember where I recently saw coverage
>>>>>>>> that indirectly implies it would be a good idea. Quora?
>>>>>>>> That Canadian roofs currently are meant to stand up
>>>>>>>> to quite a lot of snow, but sometimes don't.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Must be talking about Toronto which is one of the few places on the
>>>>>> planet where you can own both a snow blower and air conditionings and
>>>>>> not be considered crazy (Says this smug Vancouverite who spent 4 years
>>>>>> living there 30 years ago and has no desire to go back)
>>>>>
>>>>> Assuming that if you live in the most urban areas, you don't need a snow
>>>>> blower personally because you expect the city to take care of the streets
>>>>> and sidewalks...
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm pretty sure the zone of "snow blower and a/c both desirable" extends
>>>> >from mid-Maine down through Pennsylvania and westward to the Mississippi.
>>>>>
>>>> Here in a part of California that's practically at sea level, we
>>>> don't need snow blowers. A/C is something we're supposed to
>>>> avoid using, to discourage power shortages. "Use fans" is the
>>>> recommendation. We have a fan in the west window, a table fan
>>>> pointed at me (as I sit in bed), and a table fan pointed at Hal
>>>> (when he comes to bed).
>>>
>>> I've lived in California for almost forty years and have never
>>> lived in a home with air conditioning. It really depends on
>>> _where_ in the state you reside and how well designed your
>>> domicile is (wide overhangs, well insulated, good windows
>>> and cool (57-62F) evenings 98% of the time).
>>
>> Well, we're living in a house built in 1878, with an adapted
>> basement/in-law apartment built maybe in the 1950s? it's hard to
>> tell. There is an A/C unit in the master bedroom upstairs; we
>> use fans that blow cool (because shaded by that great big ol'
>> oak tree I mentioned upthread) into the main room, and two other
>> fans that redirect that air to Hal's and my sides of the bed,
>> respectively.
>>
>> Currently we're getting temps in the high 70s, with occasional
>> days in the low 80s. We may be getting into the 90s as the
>> summer/fall goes on.
>>
>A bit west of you I've already seen several 100+ days this month.
>
Dear me. West of me (in Vallejo)? Would that be in Marin
County? I should have expected anybody nearer the sea to have a
cooler climate ... but I've never lived in Marin, so what do I
know.

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

On Fri, 25 Jun 2021 13:07:04 -0400, -dsr-
<dsr-usenet@randomstring.org> wrote:

> I'm pretty sure the zone of "snow blower and a/c both desirable" extends
> from mid-Maine down through Pennsylvania and westward to the Mississippi.

Here in northern Indiana, we have whole-house air conditioning (which
has been essential for people in their eighties of late) but we don't
own a snow blower.

We hire a guy with a snow plow to clear our drive.

--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at centurylink dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/