On Fri, 2 Jul 2021 14:05:35 -0600, Chrysi Cat <chrysicat@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On 7/2/2021 1:03 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>> On 7/2/2021 11:33 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
>>> On Thu, 1 Jul 2021 17:36:56 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In article <82rrdg5naher5pcmqjlm82m3d04e4ehv2s@4ax.com>,
>>>> Paul S Person  <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 30 Jun 2021 22:05:42 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
>>>>> <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Saturday, June 26, 2021 at 4:10:04 PM UTC-6, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>>>>>> In article <sb83v3$sa7$1...@dont-email.me>,
>>>>>>> Dimensional Traveler <dtr...@sonic.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> A bit west of you I've already seen several 100+ days this month.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dear me. West of me (in Vallejo)? Would that be in Marin
>>>>>>> County? I should have expected anybody nearer the sea to have a
>>>>>>> cooler climate ... but I've never lived in Marin, so what do I
>>>>>>> know.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I live in Edmonton Alberta. Much chillier in the winter than
>>>>>> California.
>>>>
>>>> Well, yes.  More accurately, you're north-by-west of me.
>>>>
>>>> /googles map
>>>>
>>>> I sit corrected; you're north-by-EAST of me.  West of me is not
>>>> much (San Rafael, e.g.) before you're in the Pacific Ocean.
>>>>
>>>>>> But today the temperature got up to 99 degrees, due to a very unusual
>>>>>> weather system, and it is expected to get there tomorrow, before
>>>>>> starting
>>>>>> to cool off somewhat.
>>>>>
>>>>> Is that the same thing that gave Seattle 3 100+ days in a row?
>>>>>
>>>>> If so, you can have it -- but I suggest you send it on its way ASAP.
>>>>>
>>>>> 99 is nasty.
>>>>
>>>> Damn right.  So far, we've had a few days in the low 80s, and
>>>> we're shaded from the south by a huge California live oak.  So it
>>>> hasn't been too bad.  /cross fingers
>>>
>>> I managed to ... survive ... an internal temp of 96 for the last day,
>>> but I hope to /never/ have to do that again. Well, in this life,
>>> anyway.
>>>
>>> I find anything up to 86 tolerable. 80 is, of course, a lot better.
>>
>> Sitting here in my 73 F office with 94 F / 70% humidity outside.  All
>> air conditioners are in the blue and freely running even though they are
>> 17 years old.
>>
>> Lynn
>>
>
>You say that as though it were an old A/C unit.
>
>As far as I remember, we've never replaced the central-air compressor
>for this house.
>
>The house was built with central air in '90 or '91 and my parents have
>been the homeowners since '98.
>
>(IF we ever had anyone in to replace it, it would be back around the
>time you bought yours. The thermostats are about a decade old or newer
>[they're even that blue-tone background that most single-colour LCD is
>these days], but they went in, I *think*, when the *furnaces* got
>swapped out, not the A/C).
>
>It keeps the hall with the thermostat at the requested temp, and would
>likely do so even if we requested 60.
>
>But we never _will_ because that's way too much electricity we'd be
>asking of it. And that bit about "the hall with the thermostat" is
>significant, too, because the living room is 20-plus feet high and has
>windows all over the south, southwest, and west walls. And since the
>thermostat _isn't_ there, the main living area is always 4-5 degrees in
>the undesirable direction from the temperature at the thermostat. Still,
>that's not an A/C unit problem, that's a "stupid placement for the
>thermostat" problem.

IIRC, there is a concept called "zonal heating" that might apply to
A/C as well and which appears to be designed to solve such problems.

Or you could just /move/ the thermostat to the room you most want to
control precisely. Easy to say than to do, however, I expect.

I once took a lot of fun out of one of my brother's lives by insisting
that the upstairs smoke alarm be moved from one side of a wall to
another (this was above a doorway through the wall, so it was very
much in the same general area). This meant that he could no longer
produce as much steam as possible while showering, open the bathroom
door, and take delight in our reaction when the smoke detector went
off. Because, now being behind the wall and empty door frame below, it
/didn't/ go off.

Moving things can be a /suprisingly/ effective method of controlling
the environment.

Unfortunately moving the thermostat would probably involve "pulling
wire", which is likely to cost a bit. And zonal heating involves
multiple thermostats (more wire-pulling, presumably) and (no doubt) a
more sophisticated blower/duct system.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

On Sat, 3 Jul 2021 10:06:26 +1200, Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> wrote:

>On 3/07/21 9:07 am, William Hyde wrote:
>snippage for brevity
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The previous Canadian heat record dated from the 1930s. That has been
>>>>>> shattered as
>>>>>> several places have beaten the old record by more than a degree. Lytton
>>>>>> BC hit 49+C or
>>>>>> about 120F. It is now well over 451F in spots.
>>>>>
>>>>> Uh... it's gone past that. Lytton is in flames. It appears that
>>>>> all the inhabitants got out in time.
>> All but two people accounted for, out of about a thousand in the village and immediate surroundings.
>>
>> Not much is left of the town, apparently. Even the bridges are damaged.
>>
>> Some towns in the area are experiencing both fire and flood. The heat wave is
>> causing a vastly greater melt of the snow pack so water levels are rising. One town
>> is busy raising the banks along it's reservoir which would otherwise have flooded the town.
>> And still may.
>>
>> The lower snow pack may lead to water shortages later in the summer.
>>
>> We haven't got a full count of the heat-related deaths in a part of the country where
>> AC is scarce, but it seems to be in the hundreds.
>>
>> If only someone had predicted this.
>>
>
>The background is explained in layman's terms at:
>
>https://www.economist.com/the-economist-explains/2021/06/29/why-are-the-north-western-united-states-and-british-columbia-suffering-a-heatwave
>
>Due to climate change, they predict that such heat domes will become
>more common and more extreme.

Well, of course they do. And some may even be claiming that the
warnings about climate change /were/ predictions of this.

What I found interesting is that one account blamed the "dome" of the
Jet Stream. I haven't seen/heard the Jet Stream invoked to explain our
weather since the New Weather Gods (El Nino and La Nina) were
discovered.

>There is also an article on the world wide
>situation and future problems:
>https://www.economist.com/leaders/2021/07/03/the-danger-posed-by-heatwaves-deserves-to-be-taken-more-seriously

The articles require mucking about with cookie policies and/or
establishing an account, so The Economist is useless as a reference.
Sorry about that.

But the solution is obvious to anyone who has seen the Wells-written
/Things to Come/: move underground. Use the surface to raise crops,
cattle, fruit and as very large areas set apart for wildlife.

Don't bother with the normal reasons it can't be done. Necessity is
the mother of invention, and I suspect that the survivors will have
done it before this is over.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

In article <bd21egtehjjmi57majktukcte2130rtuoh@4ax.com>,
Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:

> On Fri, 2 Jul 2021 17:04:30 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
> wrote:
>
> >In article <j8gudg1cjk92b9249kdbod6fg45hjpcsce@4ax.com>,
> >Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>OK, it's probably meant for smaller communities likely to find
> >>themselves in the path (or the midst) of fire, not for houses like
> >>ours, which is in the midst of a major city. The biggest threat /here/
> >>is the haze, which people got the vapors about last year even though
> >>it took three days of seeing yellow skies on the Weather App
> >>(symbolizing haze) before any haze was actually visible.
> >
> >Where is it you live, again? Your last-year's experience sounds
> >a lot like ours, which is why I have the air quality site
> >bookmarked right under the weather forecast.
>
> I'm in Seattle, WA.
>
> During the recent unpleasantness, I activated the Weather app on my
> Fire HD 6 and activated Location Services for it. It then offered
> "Ravenna, WA" as an alternative. I don't know where that data comes
> from (perhaps the UW), but it matched what I was experiencing a lot
> better than the Seattle, WA data from SeaTac.
>

SeaTac tends to be a bit drier and warmer than the Lake Union station
that had been used as the official Seattle weather station.

> When I activated the Mapping app and activated Location Services for
> it it showed /my house/ and my neighborhood. Searching Bing for
> "Ravenna, WA" brought up only articles on my area, at least on the
> first page. I was raised here, and have known for decades that our
> house was build nearly 100 years ago in "Wassom's addition to Ravenna
> Park", and (of course) played in Ravenna Park and explored the Ravine,
> but I don't recall ever encountering "Ravenna, WA" as a location
> before. Perhaps that's how Realtors think of us.
>
> We had haze from BC fires, IIRC, two (or was it three?) years ago.
> Last year we had haze from our own fires, including (IIRC) some on the
> /west/ of the Cascades (the fires are usually east of the Cascades,
> that is, in eastern Washington).

It was 3 years ago; I was tempted to post a description under the title
"Life under a Red Star" at the time. IIRC, the upper level haze knocked
5-10 degrees Fahrenheit off the daily highs. The only other time I had
seen daylight look that odd was during the maximum partiality of the
solar eclipse a year early.

--
"We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_.
-------------------------------------------------------
Robert Woodward robertaw@drizzle.com

In article <bd21egtehjjmi57majktukcte2130rtuoh@4ax.com>,
Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>On Fri, 2 Jul 2021 17:04:30 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
>wrote:
>
>>In article <j8gudg1cjk92b9249kdbod6fg45hjpcsce@4ax.com>,
>>Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>OK, it's probably meant for smaller communities likely to find
>>>themselves in the path (or the midst) of fire, not for houses like
>>>ours, which is in the midst of a major city. The biggest threat /here/
>>>is the haze, which people got the vapors about last year even though
>>>it took three days of seeing yellow skies on the Weather App
>>>(symbolizing haze) before any haze was actually visible.
>>
>>Where is it you live, again? Your last-year's experience sounds
>>a lot like ours, which is why I have the air quality site
>>bookmarked right under the weather forecast.
>
>I'm in Seattle, WA.

Oh, wow. Trust you're doing ok?
>
>During the recent unpleasantness, I activated the Weather app on my
>Fire HD 6 and activated Location Services for it. It then offered
>"Ravenna, WA" as an alternative. I don't know where that data comes
>from (perhaps the UW), but it matched what I was experiencing a lot
>better than the Seattle, WA data from SeaTac.
>
>When I activated the Mapping app and activated Location Services for
>it it showed /my house/ and my neighborhood. Searching Bing for
>"Ravenna, WA" brought up only articles on my area, at least on the
>first page. I was raised here, and have known for decades that our
>house was build nearly 100 years ago in "Wassom's addition to Ravenna
>Park", and (of course) played in Ravenna Park and explored the Ravine,
>but I don't recall ever encountering "Ravenna, WA" as a location
>before. Perhaps that's how Realtors think of us.
>
>We had haze from BC fires, IIRC, two (or was it three?) years ago.
>Last year we had haze from our own fires, including (IIRC) some on the
>/west/ of the Cascades (the fires are usually east of the Cascades,
>that is, in eastern Washington).

Hang in there.

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> writes:
>On 3/07/21 9:07 am, William Hyde wrote:
>snippage for brevity
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The previous Canadian heat record dated from the 1930s. That has been
>>>>>> shattered as
>>>>>> several places have beaten the old record by more than a degree. Lytton
>>>>>> BC hit 49+C or
>>>>>> about 120F. It is now well over 451F in spots.
>>>>>
>>>>> Uh... it's gone past that. Lytton is in flames. It appears that
>>>>> all the inhabitants got out in time.
>> All but two people accounted for, out of about a thousand in the village and immediate surroundings.
>>
>> Not much is left of the town, apparently. Even the bridges are damaged.
>>
>> Some towns in the area are experiencing both fire and flood. The heat wave is
>> causing a vastly greater melt of the snow pack so water levels are rising. One town
>> is busy raising the banks along it's reservoir which would otherwise have flooded the town.
>> And still may.
>>
>> The lower snow pack may lead to water shortages later in the summer.
>>
>> We haven't got a full count of the heat-related deaths in a part of the country where
>> AC is scarce, but it seems to be in the hundreds.
>>
>> If only someone had predicted this.
>>
>
>The background is explained in layman's terms at:

I don't believe Dr. Hyde can be considered a layman with respect to this
particular topic.

On Saturday, July 3, 2021 at 12:47:56 PM UTC-4, Paul S Person wrote:
> On Sat, 3 Jul 2021 10:06:26 +1200, Titus G <no...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
> >On 3/07/21 9:07 am, William Hyde wrote:
> >snippage for brevity
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The previous Canadian heat record dated from the 1930s. That has been
> >>>>>> shattered as
> >>>>>> several places have beaten the old record by more than a degree. Lytton
> >>>>>> BC hit 49+C or
> >>>>>> about 120F. It is now well over 451F in spots.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Uh... it's gone past that. Lytton is in flames. It appears that
> >>>>> all the inhabitants got out in time.
> >> All but two people accounted for, out of about a thousand in the village and immediate surroundings.
> >>
> >> Not much is left of the town, apparently. Even the bridges are damaged.
> >>
> >> Some towns in the area are experiencing both fire and flood. The heat wave is
> >> causing a vastly greater melt of the snow pack so water levels are rising. One town
> >> is busy raising the banks along it's reservoir which would otherwise have flooded the town.
> >> And still may.
> >>
> >> The lower snow pack may lead to water shortages later in the summer.
> >>
> >> We haven't got a full count of the heat-related deaths in a part of the country where
> >> AC is scarce, but it seems to be in the hundreds.
> >>
> >> If only someone had predicted this.
> >>
> >
> >The background is explained in layman's terms at:
> >
> >https://www.economist.com/the-economist-explains/2021/06/29/why-are-the-north-western-united-states-and-british-columbia-suffering-a-heatwave
> >
> >Due to climate change, they predict that such heat domes will become
> >more common and more extreme.
> Well, of course they do. And some may even be claiming that the
> warnings about climate change /were/ predictions of this.

From IPCC:

"Fire frequency is expected to increase with human-induced climate change, especially where precipitation remains the same or is reduced (Stocks et al., 1998). "

Note that this refers to forest fires, not grass fires. Grass fires are decreasing, as the amount of grassland
decreases. Eventually the same will happen with forest fires, I assume. Problem solved!

> What I found interesting is that one account blamed the "dome" of

"on"?

the
> Jet Stream. I haven't seen/heard the Jet Stream invoked to explain our
> weather since the New Weather Gods (El Nino and La Nina) were
> discovered.

Actually we've known about ENSO for over a century. And our weather in midlatitudes is
always a function of the jet stream to some degree.

The midlatitude jet stream (one of several) depends on the pole to equator temperature gradient for
both it's intensity and consistency. As the arctic is warming much faster than the tropics, the
Jet Stream will be changing. What we are seeing now is more or less the same category of event as the
"polar vortex" outbreaks of a few years ago, as flow gets particularly non-zonal. Doesn't tell us anything
about the rest of the summer, though. Could be cold and wet in the same area. Or not.

William Hyde

On Saturday, July 3, 2021 at 1:38:57 PM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> Titus G <no...@nowhere.com> writes:
> >On 3/07/21 9:07 am, William Hyde wrote:
> >snippage for brevity
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The previous Canadian heat record dated from the 1930s. That has been
> >>>>>> shattered as
> >>>>>> several places have beaten the old record by more than a degree. Lytton
> >>>>>> BC hit 49+C or
> >>>>>> about 120F. It is now well over 451F in spots.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Uh... it's gone past that. Lytton is in flames. It appears that
> >>>>> all the inhabitants got out in time.
> >> All but two people accounted for, out of about a thousand in the village and immediate surroundings.
> >>
> >> Not much is left of the town, apparently. Even the bridges are damaged.
> >>
> >> Some towns in the area are experiencing both fire and flood. The heat wave is
> >> causing a vastly greater melt of the snow pack so water levels are rising. One town
> >> is busy raising the banks along it's reservoir which would otherwise have flooded the town.
> >> And still may.
> >>
> >> The lower snow pack may lead to water shortages later in the summer.
> >>
> >> We haven't got a full count of the heat-related deaths in a part of the country where
> >> AC is scarce, but it seems to be in the hundreds.
> >>
> >> If only someone had predicted this.
> >>
> >
> >The background is explained in layman's terms at:
> I don't believe Dr. Hyde can be considered a layman with respect to this
> particular topic.

The way I'm forgetting things, I'll be back to "See Spot Run" any day now.

I console myself with the fact that Mikhail Tal, the world chess champion, used to watch beginners'
chess programs even when in his prime. "It never hurts to brush up on the fundamentals" he said (whether
in Russian, Latvian, Yiddish, German, or English I do not know).

Or maybe he was avoiding doing the laundry.

William Hyde

On 7/2/2021 3:05 PM, Chrysi Cat wrote:
> On 7/2/2021 1:03 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>> On 7/2/2021 11:33 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
>>> On Thu, 1 Jul 2021 17:36:56 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In article <82rrdg5naher5pcmqjlm82m3d04e4ehv2s@4ax.com>,
>>>> Paul S Person  <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 30 Jun 2021 22:05:42 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
>>>>> <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Saturday, June 26, 2021 at 4:10:04 PM UTC-6, Dorothy J Heydt
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> In article <sb83v3$sa7$1...@dont-email.me>,
>>>>>>> Dimensional Traveler <dtr...@sonic.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> A bit west of you I've already seen several 100+ days this month.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dear me. West of me (in Vallejo)? Would that be in Marin
>>>>>>> County? I should have expected anybody nearer the sea to have a
>>>>>>> cooler climate ... but I've never lived in Marin, so what do I
>>>>>>> know.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I live in Edmonton Alberta. Much chillier in the winter than
>>>>>> California.
>>>>
>>>> Well, yes.  More accurately, you're north-by-west of me.
>>>>
>>>> /googles map
>>>>
>>>> I sit corrected; you're north-by-EAST of me.  West of me is not
>>>> much (San Rafael, e.g.) before you're in the Pacific Ocean.
>>>>
>>>>>> But today the temperature got up to 99 degrees, due to a very unusual
>>>>>> weather system, and it is expected to get there tomorrow, before
>>>>>> starting
>>>>>> to cool off somewhat.
>>>>>
>>>>> Is that the same thing that gave Seattle 3 100+ days in a row?
>>>>>
>>>>> If so, you can have it -- but I suggest you send it on its way ASAP.
>>>>>
>>>>> 99 is nasty.
>>>>
>>>> Damn right.  So far, we've had a few days in the low 80s, and
>>>> we're shaded from the south by a huge California live oak.  So it
>>>> hasn't been too bad.  /cross fingers
>>>
>>> I managed to ... survive ... an internal temp of 96 for the last day,
>>> but I hope to /never/ have to do that again. Well, in this life,
>>> anyway.
>>>
>>> I find anything up to 86 tolerable. 80 is, of course, a lot better.
>>
>> Sitting here in my 73 F office with 94 F / 70% humidity outside.  All
>> air conditioners are in the blue and freely running even though they
>> are 17 years old.
>>
>> Lynn
>>
>
> You say that as though it were an old A/C unit.
>
> As far as I remember, we've never replaced the central-air compressor
> for this house.
>
> The house was built with central air in '90 or '91 and my parents have
> been the homeowners since '98.
>
> (IF we ever had anyone in to replace it, it would be back around the
> time you bought yours. The thermostats are about a decade old or newer
> [they're even that blue-tone background that most single-colour LCD is
> these days], but they went in, I *think*, when the *furnaces* got
> swapped out, not the A/C).
>
> It keeps the hall with the thermostat at the requested temp, and would
> likely do so even if we requested 60.
>
> But we never _will_ because that's way too much electricity we'd be
> asking of it. And that bit about "the hall with the thermostat" is
> significant, too, because the living room is 20-plus feet high and has
> windows all over the south, southwest, and west walls. And since the
> thermostat _isn't_ there, the main living area is always 4-5 degrees in
> the undesirable direction from the temperature at the thermostat. Still,
> that's not an A/C unit problem, that's a "stupid placement for the
> thermostat" problem.

I don't know where you live but here in the Houston, Texas area, air
conditioners work extra hard to remove the average 70% humidity from the
air. 17 years is fairly old for a/c units here.

Lynn

On 4/07/21 5:38 am, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> writes:
>> snippage for brevity
>
>> The background is explained in layman's terms at:
>
> I don't believe Dr. Hyde can be considered a layman with respect to this
> particular topic.
>

Agreed. But I am, and was posting to the group and the issue of no
predictions which the Economist articles addressed. I was not aware that
that implied that I considered William Hyde to be a layman. I do not.

On Sat, 3 Jul 2021 17:08:56 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
wrote:

>In article <bd21egtehjjmi57majktukcte2130rtuoh@4ax.com>,
>Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>>On Fri, 2 Jul 2021 17:04:30 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
>>wrote:
>>
>>>In article <j8gudg1cjk92b9249kdbod6fg45hjpcsce@4ax.com>,
>>>Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>OK, it's probably meant for smaller communities likely to find
>>>>themselves in the path (or the midst) of fire, not for houses like
>>>>ours, which is in the midst of a major city. The biggest threat /here/
>>>>is the haze, which people got the vapors about last year even though
>>>>it took three days of seeing yellow skies on the Weather App
>>>>(symbolizing haze) before any haze was actually visible.
>>>
>>>Where is it you live, again? Your last-year's experience sounds
>>>a lot like ours, which is why I have the air quality site
>>>bookmarked right under the weather forecast.
>>
>>I'm in Seattle, WA.
>
>Oh, wow. Trust you're doing ok?

I am now (indoor temp 78 -- and that's next to the computer!).

>>
>>During the recent unpleasantness, I activated the Weather app on my
>>Fire HD 6 and activated Location Services for it. It then offered
>>"Ravenna, WA" as an alternative. I don't know where that data comes
>>from (perhaps the UW), but it matched what I was experiencing a lot
>>better than the Seattle, WA data from SeaTac.
>>
>>When I activated the Mapping app and activated Location Services for
>>it it showed /my house/ and my neighborhood. Searching Bing for
>>"Ravenna, WA" brought up only articles on my area, at least on the
>>first page. I was raised here, and have known for decades that our
>>house was build nearly 100 years ago in "Wassom's addition to Ravenna
>>Park", and (of course) played in Ravenna Park and explored the Ravine,
>>but I don't recall ever encountering "Ravenna, WA" as a location
>>before. Perhaps that's how Realtors think of us.
>>
>>We had haze from BC fires, IIRC, two (or was it three?) years ago.
>>Last year we had haze from our own fires, including (IIRC) some on the
>>/west/ of the Cascades (the fires are usually east of the Cascades,
>>that is, in eastern Washington).
>
>Hang in there.

Will do.

You do the same.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

On Sat, 03 Jul 2021 10:16:20 -0700, Robert Woodward
<robertaw@drizzle.com> wrote:

>In article <bd21egtehjjmi57majktukcte2130rtuoh@4ax.com>,
> Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 2 Jul 2021 17:04:30 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
>> wrote:
>>
>> >In article <j8gudg1cjk92b9249kdbod6fg45hjpcsce@4ax.com>,
>> >Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>OK, it's probably meant for smaller communities likely to find
>> >>themselves in the path (or the midst) of fire, not for houses like
>> >>ours, which is in the midst of a major city. The biggest threat /here/
>> >>is the haze, which people got the vapors about last year even though
>> >>it took three days of seeing yellow skies on the Weather App
>> >>(symbolizing haze) before any haze was actually visible.
>> >
>> >Where is it you live, again? Your last-year's experience sounds
>> >a lot like ours, which is why I have the air quality site
>> >bookmarked right under the weather forecast.
>>
>> I'm in Seattle, WA.
>>
>> During the recent unpleasantness, I activated the Weather app on my
>> Fire HD 6 and activated Location Services for it. It then offered
>> "Ravenna, WA" as an alternative. I don't know where that data comes
>> from (perhaps the UW), but it matched what I was experiencing a lot
>> better than the Seattle, WA data from SeaTac.
>>
>
>SeaTac tends to be a bit drier and warmer than the Lake Union station
>that had been used as the official Seattle weather station.

SeaTac, being an airport, also has a /lot/ of cement and a /lack/ of
foliage. So it's no suprise that a closer source (UW or Lake Union or
wherever, with less concrete and more trees) was more accurate.

>> When I activated the Mapping app and activated Location Services for
>> it it showed /my house/ and my neighborhood. Searching Bing for
>> "Ravenna, WA" brought up only articles on my area, at least on the
>> first page. I was raised here, and have known for decades that our
>> house was build nearly 100 years ago in "Wassom's addition to Ravenna
>> Park", and (of course) played in Ravenna Park and explored the Ravine,
>> but I don't recall ever encountering "Ravenna, WA" as a location
>> before. Perhaps that's how Realtors think of us.
>>
>> We had haze from BC fires, IIRC, two (or was it three?) years ago.
>> Last year we had haze from our own fires, including (IIRC) some on the
>> /west/ of the Cascades (the fires are usually east of the Cascades,
>> that is, in eastern Washington).
>
>It was 3 years ago; I was tempted to post a description under the title
>"Life under a Red Star" at the time. IIRC, the upper level haze knocked
>5-10 degrees Fahrenheit off the daily highs. The only other time I had
>seen daylight look that odd was during the maximum partiality of the
>solar eclipse a year early.

What got me was that the Win10 Weather App showed orange skies last
year for our fires when the skies were, in fact, perfectly normal. It
took three days before haze was apparent, and even then it always
seemed to be rather far off which, of course, is to say that you had
to be looking through several hundred feet of it to notice it.

Locals seemed to be very upset. I mean, it's not as if were a killer
fog or something /really/ serious. I guess decades of very clean and
clear air have raised people's expectations.

--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

On Sat, 3 Jul 2021 14:30:43 -0700 (PDT), William Hyde
<wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Saturday, July 3, 2021 at 12:47:56 PM UTC-4, Paul S Person wrote:
>> On Sat, 3 Jul 2021 10:06:26 +1200, Titus G <no...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On 3/07/21 9:07 am, William Hyde wrote:
>> >snippage for brevity
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> The previous Canadian heat record dated from the 1930s. That has been
>> >>>>>> shattered as
>> >>>>>> several places have beaten the old record by more than a degree. Lytton
>> >>>>>> BC hit 49+C or
>> >>>>>> about 120F. It is now well over 451F in spots.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Uh... it's gone past that. Lytton is in flames. It appears that
>> >>>>> all the inhabitants got out in time.
>> >> All but two people accounted for, out of about a thousand in the village and immediate surroundings.
>> >>
>> >> Not much is left of the town, apparently. Even the bridges are damaged.
>> >>
>> >> Some towns in the area are experiencing both fire and flood. The heat wave is
>> >> causing a vastly greater melt of the snow pack so water levels are rising. One town
>> >> is busy raising the banks along it's reservoir which would otherwise have flooded the town.
>> >> And still may.
>> >>
>> >> The lower snow pack may lead to water shortages later in the summer.
>> >>
>> >> We haven't got a full count of the heat-related deaths in a part of the country where
>> >> AC is scarce, but it seems to be in the hundreds.
>> >>
>> >> If only someone had predicted this.
>> >>
>> >
>> >The background is explained in layman's terms at:
>> >
>> >https://www.economist.com/the-economist-explains/2021/06/29/why-are-the-north-western-united-states-and-british-columbia-suffering-a-heatwave
>> >
>> >Due to climate change, they predict that such heat domes will become
>> >more common and more extreme.
>> Well, of course they do. And some may even be claiming that the
>> warnings about climate change /were/ predictions of this.
>
>From IPCC:
>
>"Fire frequency is expected to increase with human-induced climate change, especially where precipitation remains the same or is reduced (Stocks et al., 1998). "
>
>Note that this refers to forest fires, not grass fires. Grass fires are decreasing, as the amount of grassland
>decreases. Eventually the same will happen with forest fires, I assume. Problem solved!
>
>
>> What I found interesting is that one account blamed the "dome" of
>
>"on"?

Indeed. Thanks.

> the
>> Jet Stream. I haven't seen/heard the Jet Stream invoked to explain our
>> weather since the New Weather Gods (El Nino and La Nina) were
>> discovered.
>
>Actually we've known about ENSO for over a century. And our weather in midlatitudes is
>always a function of the jet stream to some degree.

But they haven't been treated as Weather Gods for nearly that long.

In the 50s/60s, before the new Weather Gods, the Jet Stream was the
explainer of /all/ our weather:

-- when it got cold, the Jet Stream had moved South, pushing cold air
into our area
-- when it got warm (as recently), the Jet Stream had moved North,
pulling hot air into our area

Simple, clear, unambiguous, and always available. A natural
phenomenon, not a Weather God.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

In article <92q3egpglmshhkpebhuji3f3e6hh0d83ok@4ax.com>,
Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>On Sat, 3 Jul 2021 17:08:56 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
>wrote:
>
>>In article <bd21egtehjjmi57majktukcte2130rtuoh@4ax.com>,
>>Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>>>On Fri, 2 Jul 2021 17:04:30 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>In article <j8gudg1cjk92b9249kdbod6fg45hjpcsce@4ax.com>,
>>>>Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>OK, it's probably meant for smaller communities likely to find
>>>>>themselves in the path (or the midst) of fire, not for houses like
>>>>>ours, which is in the midst of a major city. The biggest threat /here/
>>>>>is the haze, which people got the vapors about last year even though
>>>>>it took three days of seeing yellow skies on the Weather App
>>>>>(symbolizing haze) before any haze was actually visible.
>>>>
>>>>Where is it you live, again? Your last-year's experience sounds
>>>>a lot like ours, which is why I have the air quality site
>>>>bookmarked right under the weather forecast.
>>>
>>>I'm in Seattle, WA.
>>
>>Oh, wow. Trust you're doing ok?
>
>I am now (indoor temp 78 -- and that's next to the computer!).
>
>>>
>>>During the recent unpleasantness, I activated the Weather app on my
>>>Fire HD 6 and activated Location Services for it. It then offered
>>>"Ravenna, WA" as an alternative. I don't know where that data comes
>>>from (perhaps the UW), but it matched what I was experiencing a lot
>>>better than the Seattle, WA data from SeaTac.
>>>
>>>When I activated the Mapping app and activated Location Services for
>>>it it showed /my house/ and my neighborhood. Searching Bing for
>>>"Ravenna, WA" brought up only articles on my area, at least on the
>>>first page. I was raised here, and have known for decades that our
>>>house was build nearly 100 years ago in "Wassom's addition to Ravenna
>>>Park", and (of course) played in Ravenna Park and explored the Ravine,
>>>but I don't recall ever encountering "Ravenna, WA" as a location
>>>before. Perhaps that's how Realtors think of us.
>>>
>>>We had haze from BC fires, IIRC, two (or was it three?) years ago.
>>>Last year we had haze from our own fires, including (IIRC) some on the
>>>/west/ of the Cascades (the fires are usually east of the Cascades,
>>>that is, in eastern Washington).
>>
>>Hang in there.
>
>Will do.
>
>You do the same.

Not wishing to hurt anybody's feelings, but ... the local weather
site says it's 66 F outside. I'm sitting under a blanket with my
feet on a heating pad, so they're okay, but my hands are cold.

Hal is sitting next to an open* window with the fan blasting on
him. He's a polar bear.

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

On Sunday, July 4, 2021 at 1:16:14 PM UTC-4, Paul S Person wrote:
> On Sat, 3 Jul 2021 14:30:43 -0700 (PDT), William Hyde
> <wthyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Saturday, July 3, 2021 at 12:47:56 PM UTC-4, Paul S Person wrote:
> >> On Sat, 3 Jul 2021 10:06:26 +1200, Titus G <no...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >On 3/07/21 9:07 am, William Hyde wrote:
> >> >snippage for brevity
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> The previous Canadian heat record dated from the 1930s. That has been
> >> >>>>>> shattered as
> >> >>>>>> several places have beaten the old record by more than a degree. Lytton
> >> >>>>>> BC hit 49+C or
> >> >>>>>> about 120F. It is now well over 451F in spots.
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> Uh... it's gone past that. Lytton is in flames. It appears that
> >> >>>>> all the inhabitants got out in time.
> >> >> All but two people accounted for, out of about a thousand in the village and immediate surroundings.
> >> >>
> >> >> Not much is left of the town, apparently. Even the bridges are damaged.
> >> >>
> >> >> Some towns in the area are experiencing both fire and flood. The heat wave is
> >> >> causing a vastly greater melt of the snow pack so water levels are rising. One town
> >> >> is busy raising the banks along it's reservoir which would otherwise have flooded the town.
> >> >> And still may.
> >> >>
> >> >> The lower snow pack may lead to water shortages later in the summer.
> >> >>
> >> >> We haven't got a full count of the heat-related deaths in a part of the country where
> >> >> AC is scarce, but it seems to be in the hundreds.
> >> >>
> >> >> If only someone had predicted this.
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >The background is explained in layman's terms at:
> >> >
> >> >https://www.economist.com/the-economist-explains/2021/06/29/why-are-the-north-western-united-states-and-british-columbia-suffering-a-heatwave
> >> >
> >> >Due to climate change, they predict that such heat domes will become
> >> >more common and more extreme.
> >> Well, of course they do. And some may even be claiming that the
> >> warnings about climate change /were/ predictions of this.
> >
> >From IPCC:
> >
> >"Fire frequency is expected to increase with human-induced climate change, especially where precipitation remains the same or is reduced (Stocks et al., 1998). "
> >
> >Note that this refers to forest fires, not grass fires. Grass fires are decreasing, as the amount of grassland
> >decreases. Eventually the same will happen with forest fires, I assume. Problem solved!
> >
> >
> >> What I found interesting is that one account blamed the "dome" of
> >
> >"on"?
> Indeed. Thanks.
> > the
> >> Jet Stream. I haven't seen/heard the Jet Stream invoked to explain our
> >> weather since the New Weather Gods (El Nino and La Nina) were
> >> discovered.
> >
> >Actually we've known about ENSO for over a century. And our weather in midlatitudes is
> >always a function of the jet stream to some degree.
> But they haven't been treated as Weather Gods for nearly that long.

Yes, I think it was the 83 el Nino that broke into public awareness. People started blaming
any intense event (hurricanes aside) on it (heard on an SF radio "Is this rainstorm an El Nino rainstorm?").

This may be because the idea of teleconnection - predictable effects from a cause at great distance,
was becoming more widely known and applied to ENSO. So that a month of heavy snow, if not one
snowstorm, in Kentucky could be blamed on it.

When I went to NASA in 86 I think three of the first four seminars I attended were on ENSO and it's
far-reaching effects.

ISTR that the 75/76 El Nino got some mention - we had huge snowstorms in Kitchener/Waterloo and someone at the
university uttered the magic words (I said "Hun? El what?) but it didn't catch on.

When I made the switch to climate, I was very surprised at just how long people had been analyzing
what we now cal ENSO.

>
> In the 50s/60s, before the new Weather Gods, the Jet Stream was the
> explainer of /all/ our weather:
>
> -- when it got cold, the Jet Stream had moved South, pushing cold air
> into our area
> -- when it got warm (as recently), the Jet Stream had moved North,
> pulling hot air into our area
>
> Simple, clear, unambiguous, and always available. A natural
> phenomenon, not a Weather God.

ENSO was pretty mysterious for a long time. The jet streams were better understood.

William Hyde

In article <2uq3eg1achidft8i3t29q0f3pfoggojhgo@4ax.com>,
Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>On Sat, 3 Jul 2021 14:30:43 -0700 (PDT), William Hyde
><wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Saturday, July 3, 2021 at 12:47:56 PM UTC-4, Paul S Person wrote:
>>> On Sat, 3 Jul 2021 10:06:26 +1200, Titus G <no...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> >On 3/07/21 9:07 am, William Hyde wrote:
>>> >snippage for brevity
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> The previous Canadian heat record dated from the 1930s. That
>has been
>>> >>>>>> shattered as
>>> >>>>>> several places have beaten the old record by more than a
>degree. Lytton
>>> >>>>>> BC hit 49+C or
>>> >>>>>> about 120F. It is now well over 451F in spots.
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> Uh... it's gone past that. Lytton is in flames. It appears that
>>> >>>>> all the inhabitants got out in time.
>>> >> All but two people accounted for, out of about a thousand in the
>village and immediate surroundings.
>>> >>
>>> >> Not much is left of the town, apparently. Even the bridges are damaged.
>>> >>
>>> >> Some towns in the area are experiencing both fire and flood. The
>heat wave is
>>> >> causing a vastly greater melt of the snow pack so water levels
>are rising. One town
>>> >> is busy raising the banks along it's reservoir which would
>otherwise have flooded the town.
>>> >> And still may.
>>> >>
>>> >> The lower snow pack may lead to water shortages later in the summer.
>>> >>
>>> >> We haven't got a full count of the heat-related deaths in a part
>of the country where
>>> >> AC is scarce, but it seems to be in the hundreds.
>>> >>
>>> >> If only someone had predicted this.
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >The background is explained in layman's terms at:
>>> >
>>>
>>https://www.economist.com/the-economist-explains/2021/06/29/why-are-the-north-western-united-states-and-british-columbia-suffering-a-heatwave
>>> >
>>> >Due to climate change, they predict that such heat domes will become
>>> >more common and more extreme.
>>> Well, of course they do. And some may even be claiming that the
>>> warnings about climate change /were/ predictions of this.
>>
>>From IPCC:
>>
>>"Fire frequency is expected to increase with human-induced climate
>change, especially where precipitation remains the same or is reduced
>(Stocks et al., 1998). "
>>
>>Note that this refers to forest fires, not grass fires. Grass fires
>are decreasing, as the amount of grassland
>>decreases. Eventually the same will happen with forest fires, I
>assume. Problem solved!
>>
>>
>>> What I found interesting is that one account blamed the "dome" of
>>
>>"on"?
>
>Indeed. Thanks.
>
>> the
>>> Jet Stream. I haven't seen/heard the Jet Stream invoked to explain our
>>> weather since the New Weather Gods (El Nino and La Nina) were
>>> discovered.
>>
>>Actually we've known about ENSO for over a century. And our weather
>in midlatitudes is
>>always a function of the jet stream to some degree.
>
>But they haven't been treated as Weather Gods for nearly that long.
>
>In the 50s/60s, before the new Weather Gods, the Jet Stream was the
>explainer of /all/ our weather:
>
>-- when it got cold, the Jet Stream had moved South, pushing cold air
>into our area
>-- when it got warm (as recently), the Jet Stream had moved North,
>pulling hot air into our area
>
>Simple, clear, unambiguous, and always available. A natural
>phenomenon, not a Weather God.
>--
>"I begin to envy Petronius."
>"I have envied him long since."

This fire might have been started by a train.
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
Yahweh, Queen & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism https://www.empire.kred/ROOTNK?t=94a1f39b
Punishing the law-abiding will have zero impact on crime. -unknown Beware https://mindspring.com

On 7/3/2021 12:39 PM, Paul S Person wrote:
> On Fri, 2 Jul 2021 14:05:35 -0600, Chrysi Cat <chrysicat@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 7/2/2021 1:03 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>> On 7/2/2021 11:33 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 1 Jul 2021 17:36:56 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In article <82rrdg5naher5pcmqjlm82m3d04e4ehv2s@4ax.com>,
>>>>> Paul S Person  <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>> On Wed, 30 Jun 2021 22:05:42 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
>>>>>> <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Saturday, June 26, 2021 at 4:10:04 PM UTC-6, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>>>>>>> In article <sb83v3$sa7$1...@dont-email.me>,
>>>>>>>> Dimensional Traveler <dtr...@sonic.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> A bit west of you I've already seen several 100+ days this month.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Dear me. West of me (in Vallejo)? Would that be in Marin
>>>>>>>> County? I should have expected anybody nearer the sea to have a
>>>>>>>> cooler climate ... but I've never lived in Marin, so what do I
>>>>>>>> know.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I live in Edmonton Alberta. Much chillier in the winter than
>>>>>>> California.
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, yes.  More accurately, you're north-by-west of me.
>>>>>
>>>>> /googles map
>>>>>
>>>>> I sit corrected; you're north-by-EAST of me.  West of me is not
>>>>> much (San Rafael, e.g.) before you're in the Pacific Ocean.
>>>>>
>>>>>>> But today the temperature got up to 99 degrees, due to a very unusual
>>>>>>> weather system, and it is expected to get there tomorrow, before
>>>>>>> starting
>>>>>>> to cool off somewhat.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is that the same thing that gave Seattle 3 100+ days in a row?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If so, you can have it -- but I suggest you send it on its way ASAP.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 99 is nasty.
>>>>>
>>>>> Damn right.  So far, we've had a few days in the low 80s, and
>>>>> we're shaded from the south by a huge California live oak.  So it
>>>>> hasn't been too bad.  /cross fingers
>>>>
>>>> I managed to ... survive ... an internal temp of 96 for the last day,
>>>> but I hope to /never/ have to do that again. Well, in this life,
>>>> anyway.
>>>>
>>>> I find anything up to 86 tolerable. 80 is, of course, a lot better.
>>>
>>> Sitting here in my 73 F office with 94 F / 70% humidity outside.  All
>>> air conditioners are in the blue and freely running even though they are
>>> 17 years old.
>>>
>>> Lynn
>>>
>>
>> You say that as though it were an old A/C unit.
>>
>> As far as I remember, we've never replaced the central-air compressor
>> for this house.
>>
>> The house was built with central air in '90 or '91 and my parents have
>> been the homeowners since '98.
>>
>> (IF we ever had anyone in to replace it, it would be back around the
>> time you bought yours. The thermostats are about a decade old or newer
>> [they're even that blue-tone background that most single-colour LCD is
>> these days], but they went in, I *think*, when the *furnaces* got
>> swapped out, not the A/C).
>>
>> It keeps the hall with the thermostat at the requested temp, and would
>> likely do so even if we requested 60.
>>
>> But we never _will_ because that's way too much electricity we'd be
>> asking of it. And that bit about "the hall with the thermostat" is
>> significant, too, because the living room is 20-plus feet high and has
>> windows all over the south, southwest, and west walls. And since the
>> thermostat _isn't_ there, the main living area is always 4-5 degrees in
>> the undesirable direction from the temperature at the thermostat. Still,
>> that's not an A/C unit problem, that's a "stupid placement for the
>> thermostat" problem.
>
> IIRC, there is a concept called "zonal heating" that might apply to
> A/C as well and which appears to be designed to solve such problems.
>
> Or you could just /move/ the thermostat to the room you most want to
> control precisely. Easy to say than to do, however, I expect.
>
> I once took a lot of fun out of one of my brother's lives by insisting
> that the upstairs smoke alarm be moved from one side of a wall to
> another (this was above a doorway through the wall, so it was very
> much in the same general area). This meant that he could no longer
> produce as much steam as possible while showering, open the bathroom
> door, and take delight in our reaction when the smoke detector went
> off. Because, now being behind the wall and empty door frame below, it
> /didn't/ go off.
>
> Moving things can be a /suprisingly/ effective method of controlling
> the environment.
>
> Unfortunately moving the thermostat would probably involve "pulling
> wire", which is likely to cost a bit. And zonal heating involves
> multiple thermostats (more wire-pulling, presumably) and (no doubt) a
> more sophisticated blower/duct system.
>

Down here in Miami the weather is like the movie
Groundhogs day.

All winter long it's 78-82 deg with clear bright
sunny skies and mild breeze.

All summer long it's 88-92 deg with isolated
afternoon thunderstorms.

I keep the ac at 64 deg during the day and 62 at night.
Love it cold. My apartment is an engineering freak
as the pool deck is on the 7th floor, I'm on the
6th floor so to make room for the depth of the pool
they had to make the 6th floor with double high ceilings.

It's great.

The 6th floor hallways and apartments all have 16 foot
high ceilings. Kinda echoes insides~
The apartment is almost as tall as it is wide.

Thing is the ac vents and lights need a crew to
come inside to adjust them or change a bulb.

And the view with the 16 feet of glass on the
entire side is great. Even the shower stall
has 16 foot high all glass walls and a massive
14 foot high glass door.

Every time I open it I get a mental vision
of the big door at Jurassic Park.

--
https://twitter.com/Non_Linear1

On 7/4/2021 4:30 PM, William Hyde wrote:
> On Sunday, July 4, 2021 at 1:16:14 PM UTC-4, Paul S Person wrote:
>> On Sat, 3 Jul 2021 14:30:43 -0700 (PDT), William Hyde
>> <wthyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Saturday, July 3, 2021 at 12:47:56 PM UTC-4, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 3 Jul 2021 10:06:26 +1200, Titus G <no...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 3/07/21 9:07 am, William Hyde wrote:
>>>>> snippage for brevity
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The previous Canadian heat record dated from the 1930s. That has been
>>>>>>>>>> shattered as
>>>>>>>>>> several places have beaten the old record by more than a degree. Lytton
>>>>>>>>>> BC hit 49+C or
>>>>>>>>>> about 120F. It is now well over 451F in spots.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Uh... it's gone past that. Lytton is in flames. It appears that
>>>>>>>>> all the inhabitants got out in time.
>>>>>> All but two people accounted for, out of about a thousand in the village and immediate surroundings.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not much is left of the town, apparently. Even the bridges are damaged.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Some towns in the area are experiencing both fire and flood. The heat wave is
>>>>>> causing a vastly greater melt of the snow pack so water levels are rising. One town
>>>>>> is busy raising the banks along it's reservoir which would otherwise have flooded the town.
>>>>>> And still may.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The lower snow pack may lead to water shortages later in the summer.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We haven't got a full count of the heat-related deaths in a part of the country where
>>>>>> AC is scarce, but it seems to be in the hundreds.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If only someone had predicted this.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The background is explained in layman's terms at:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.economist.com/the-economist-explains/2021/06/29/why-are-the-north-western-united-states-and-british-columbia-suffering-a-heatwave
>>>>>
>>>>> Due to climate change, they predict that such heat domes will become
>>>>> more common and more extreme.
>>>> Well, of course they do. And some may even be claiming that the
>>>> warnings about climate change /were/ predictions of this.
>>>
>> >From IPCC:
>>>
>>> "Fire frequency is expected to increase with human-induced climate change, especially where precipitation remains the same or is reduced (Stocks et al., 1998). "
>>>
>>> Note that this refers to forest fires, not grass fires. Grass fires are decreasing, as the amount of grassland
>>> decreases. Eventually the same will happen with forest fires, I assume. Problem solved!
>>>
>>>
>>>> What I found interesting is that one account blamed the "dome" of
>>>
>>> "on"?
>> Indeed. Thanks.
>>> the
>>>> Jet Stream. I haven't seen/heard the Jet Stream invoked to explain our
>>>> weather since the New Weather Gods (El Nino and La Nina) were
>>>> discovered.
>>>
>>> Actually we've known about ENSO for over a century. And our weather in midlatitudes is
>>> always a function of the jet stream to some degree.
>> But they haven't been treated as Weather Gods for nearly that long.
>
>
> Yes, I think it was the 83 el Nino that broke into public awareness. People started blaming
> any intense event (hurricanes aside) on it (heard on an SF radio "Is this rainstorm an El Nino rainstorm?").
>
> This may be because the idea of teleconnection - predictable effects from a cause at great distance,
> was becoming more widely known and applied to ENSO. So that a month of heavy snow, if not one
> snowstorm, in Kentucky could be blamed on it.
>
> When I went to NASA in 86 I think three of the first four seminars I attended were on ENSO and it's
> far-reaching effects.
>
> ISTR that the 75/76 El Nino got some mention - we had huge snowstorms in Kitchener/Waterloo and someone at the
> university uttered the magic words (I said "Hun? El what?) but it didn't catch on.
>
> When I made the switch to climate, I was very surprised at just how long people had been analyzing
> what we now cal ENSO.
>

The Worst Places for Hurricanes

1) Southeast Florida (Miami-Fort Lauderdale-West Palm Beach)
https://www.bestplaces.net/docs/studies/hurricane_hotspots.aspx

Living in Miami since 92 I've noticed hurricane
seasons wax and wane kinda like solar cycles.
We'll go 10 years or so with few major storms
coming through, then have a couple years with
one after another.

We've had a long lull that seems to have ended
with the 2020 record, and since the current
tropical storm ELSA is the first time in history
five names storms have happened by this date it
looks like the next couple years they'll return
with a vengeance.

If you scroll down the Wiki page on florida
hurricanes by year you can see the trend

List of Florida hurricanes
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Florida_hurricanes_(2000%E2%80%93present)

2005 Atlantic hurricane season
The 2005 Atlantic hurricane season was, at the time, the
most active Atlantic hurricane season on record until
the record was surpassed in 2020.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_Atlantic_hurricane_season

I'll never forget 2005, the eye of Katrina went over
my apartment on it's way to New Orleans. First time
I heard, and...felt, an approaching eye wall.

You could feel it approaching from the thunderbolts
steadily marching closer and shaking the ground
more and more.

And Wilma also made a direct hit. Wilma was an incredible
storm. Ya know they told us it was a Cat 1 as it approached
the coast and that as usual it would weaken once on land.

Boy were they wrong. Wilma, like Katrina, was so large
in size hitting land only pissed it off and it
exploded into a Cat 3 in no time.

Some of the experiences from Wilma were memorable.
Sitting in the bathtub slowly bouncing my shoulders
off one side then the other from the ground moving
back and forth due to wind against all the buildings.

Loving weather I just had to look outside near
peak winds, 110 or so, just to see what it
looked like. The squall lines were moving so
fast it looked like a time lapse video.

And it appears while peeking out the door I witnessed
a micro-burst. I stopped looking up and looked
horizontal and all I saw is what looked like a huge
wall of water, all looking like the spray from the
end of a water hose, coming my way in a hurry.

I just managed to slam the door when it hit with
a huge splash like a wave hitting.

And later while the storm was 100 plus, making a racket
banging like hammers, whistling through the windows, roaring
noises you couldn't posibly shout over, all of sudden
for about five or ten seconds you could hear a pin drop.

And it happened again about five minutes later.
The noise returned just as fast as it stopped for
those seconds. Only possible explanation is a
couple of tornadoes went overhead. Pretty sure
in between successive squall lines tornadoes spin up
from the differential wind speeds between squall lines.

I counted around 35 successive squall lines come through.
Where as in Andrew, a small storm in size, I only
counted 3 or 4.

I learned in the eye of a large tornado you can hear a
pin drop.

I remember even after Wilma was long gone for a couple
of hours, clear blue skies. it was still blowing 50 knots
from the wake of the thing. And outside the buildings
and ground were cold to the touch, the wind sucked all the
heat out of them even though the air temp was in the 80's.

The sizes of these storms needs to be taken into
account somehow with the Samfir-Simpson scale.

Not just wind speeds but geographical size too.

Andrew spanned maybe half a county, Wilma and
Katrina spanned half the STATE. They are clearly
different categories of storms in that sense.

I think climate change will be bringing larger
sized storms too, not just stronger or more
numerous storms.

You can't evacuate from a super-storm like Katrina
or Wilma. You CAN'T. By the time it's close enough
to be fairly sure of its path, it's too late
to evacuate since you'd have to drive so far to
get out of it's path. You'll just ending up
getting caught out on the highway.

A small size storm like Andrew you can get out of
it's path, but not a super-storm when you almost
have to leave the state.

On 7/4/2021 6:06 PM, The Doctor wrote:
> In article <2uq3eg1achidft8i3t29q0f3pfoggojhgo@4ax.com>,
> Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>> On Sat, 3 Jul 2021 14:30:43 -0700 (PDT), William Hyde
>> <wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Saturday, July 3, 2021 at 12:47:56 PM UTC-4, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 3 Jul 2021 10:06:26 +1200, Titus G <no...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 3/07/21 9:07 am, William Hyde wrote:
>>>>> snippage for brevity
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The previous Canadian heat record dated from the 1930s. That
>> has been
>>>>>>>>>> shattered as
>>>>>>>>>> several places have beaten the old record by more than a
>> degree. Lytton
>>>>>>>>>> BC hit 49+C or
>>>>>>>>>> about 120F. It is now well over 451F in spots.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Uh... it's gone past that. Lytton is in flames. It appears that
>>>>>>>>> all the inhabitants got out in time.
>>>>>> All but two people accounted for, out of about a thousand in the
>> village and immediate surroundings.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not much is left of the town, apparently. Even the bridges are damaged.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Some towns in the area are experiencing both fire and flood. The
>> heat wave is
>>>>>> causing a vastly greater melt of the snow pack so water levels
>> are rising. One town
>>>>>> is busy raising the banks along it's reservoir which would
>> otherwise have flooded the town.
>>>>>> And still may.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The lower snow pack may lead to water shortages later in the summer.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We haven't got a full count of the heat-related deaths in a part
>> of the country where
>>>>>> AC is scarce, but it seems to be in the hundreds.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If only someone had predicted this.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The background is explained in layman's terms at:
>>>>>
>>>>
>>> https://www.economist.com/the-economist-explains/2021/06/29/why-are-the-north-western-united-states-and-british-columbia-suffering-a-heatwave
>>>>>
>>>>> Due to climate change, they predict that such heat domes will become
>>>>> more common and more extreme.
>>>> Well, of course they do. And some may even be claiming that the
>>>> warnings about climate change /were/ predictions of this.
>>>
>> >From IPCC:
>>>
>>> "Fire frequency is expected to increase with human-induced climate
>> change, especially where precipitation remains the same or is reduced
>> (Stocks et al., 1998). "
>>>
>>> Note that this refers to forest fires, not grass fires. Grass fires
>> are decreasing, as the amount of grassland
>>> decreases. Eventually the same will happen with forest fires, I
>> assume. Problem solved!
>>>
>>>
>>>> What I found interesting is that one account blamed the "dome" of
>>>
>>> "on"?
>>
>> Indeed. Thanks.
>>
>>> the
>>>> Jet Stream. I haven't seen/heard the Jet Stream invoked to explain our
>>>> weather since the New Weather Gods (El Nino and La Nina) were
>>>> discovered.
>>>
>>> Actually we've known about ENSO for over a century. And our weather
>> in midlatitudes is
>>> always a function of the jet stream to some degree.
>>
>> But they haven't been treated as Weather Gods for nearly that long.
>>
>> In the 50s/60s, before the new Weather Gods, the Jet Stream was the
>> explainer of /all/ our weather:
>>
>> -- when it got cold, the Jet Stream had moved South, pushing cold air
>> into our area
>> -- when it got warm (as recently), the Jet Stream had moved North,
>> pulling hot air into our area
>>
>> Simple, clear, unambiguous, and always available. A natural
>> phenomenon, not a Weather God.
>> --
>> "I begin to envy Petronius."
>> "I have envied him long since."
>
> This fire might have been started by a train.
>

When it comes to things like El Nino the concept
I preach, emergence, is a core concept for
understanding such weather events.

For instance El-Nino is NOT cyclical or predictable
but can spontaneously self-organize once a critical
threshold is reached. SO knowing the concepts of
emergence and self-organization is entry level
requirements.

If you aren't well-versed on say, the difference
between type 2 and type 3 emergence, tunneling
emergence etc, or the concept of self-organization
such events will remain a mystery.

As will most complex systems from the universe
itself, to life, society and mind.

Here is the textbook on emergence. If you
want to understand the true underlying
processes of nature one must know this
material backwards and forwards.

How many do?

Types and Forms of Emergence

Jochen Fromm
Distributed Systems Group,
Electrical Engineering & Computer Science,
Universität Kassel, Germany
https://arxiv.org/ftp/nlin/papers/0506/0506028.pdf

Self-organizing Faq

The main current scientific theory related to self-organization
is Complexity Theory, which states:

Critically interacting components self-organize to form
potentially evolving structures exhibiting a hierarchy
of emergent system properties.
https://naturalorder.info/self-organizingsystems.html

But don't take my word for it...

From...

The world's most viewed site on global warming and
climate change

Emergent Climate Phenomena
Guest Post by Willis Eschenbach

Emergent Climate Phenomena
8 years ago Willis Eschenbach
Guest Post by Willis Eschenbach

In a recent post, I described how the El Nino/La Nina
alteration operates as a giant pump. Whenever the
Pacific Ocean gets too warm across its surface, the
Nino/Nina pump kicks in and removes the warm water
from the Pacific, pumping it first west and thence
poleward. I also wrote about dolphins in a piece
called “Here There Be Dragons“.

Fulfilling an obligation I incurred in the latter paper by
saying I would write about emergence and climate, let me
take a larger overview of the situation by noting that
both the El Nino pump and the dolphins are examples
of a special class of things that are called
“emergent” phenomena.

Emergence is a very important concept. Systems with
emergent phenomena operate under radically different rules
than those without. Today I want to talk about emergent
systems, and why they need to be analyzed in different
ways than systems which do not contain emergent phenomena.

Examples of natural emergent phenomena with which we are
familiar include sand dunes, the behavior of flocks of birds,
vortexes of all kinds, termite mounds, consciousness, and
indeed, life itself. Familiar emergent climate phenomena
include thunderstorms, tornadoes, clouds, cyclones, El Ninos,
and dust devils.

Generally speaking, we recognize emergent phenomena because
they surprise us. By that, I mean emergent phenomena are
those which are not readily predictable from the
underlying configuration and physics of the situation.
Looking at a termite, if you didn’t know about their mounds
there’s no way you’d say “I bet these bugs build highly
complex structures a thousand times taller than they are,
with special air passages designed to keep them cool”.
You wouldn’t predict mounds from looking at termites,
no way. Termite mounds are an emergent phenomenon.

The El Nino phenomenon is another excellent example of
emergent phenomena. Looking at a basin of water like the
Pacific, there’s no way you would say “Hey, I’ll bet that
ocean has this complex natural system that kicks in
whenever the ocean overheats, and it pumps millions of
cubic kilometers of warm water up to the poles.”
You wouldn’t predict the existence of the El Nino
from the existence of the Pacific Ocean. It also is
an emergent phenomenon.

In addition to their surprising emergence from the
background, what other characteristics do emergent
phenomena possess to allow us to tell them from other
non-emergent phenomena?

One common property of emergent phenomena is that they are
flow systems which are far from equilibrium. As a result,
they need to evolve and change in order to survive.
They are mobile and mutable, not fixed and unchanging.
And locally (but of course not globally) they can reverse
entropy (organize the local environment). Indeed, another
name for emergent phenomena is “self-organized phenomena”.

On 7/3/2021 5:35 PM, William Hyde wrote:
> On Saturday, July 3, 2021 at 1:38:57 PM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> Titus G <no...@nowhere.com> writes:
>>> On 3/07/21 9:07 am, William Hyde wrote:
>>> snippage for brevity
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The previous Canadian heat record dated from the 1930s. That has been
>>>>>>>> shattered as
>>>>>>>> several places have beaten the old record by more than a degree. Lytton
>>>>>>>> BC hit 49+C or
>>>>>>>> about 120F. It is now well over 451F in spots.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Uh... it's gone past that. Lytton is in flames. It appears that
>>>>>>> all the inhabitants got out in time.
>>>> All but two people accounted for, out of about a thousand in the village and immediate surroundings.
>>>>
>>>> Not much is left of the town, apparently. Even the bridges are damaged.
>>>>
>>>> Some towns in the area are experiencing both fire and flood. The heat wave is
>>>> causing a vastly greater melt of the snow pack so water levels are rising. One town
>>>> is busy raising the banks along it's reservoir which would otherwise have flooded the town.
>>>> And still may.
>>>>
>>>> The lower snow pack may lead to water shortages later in the summer.
>>>>
>>>> We haven't got a full count of the heat-related deaths in a part of the country where
>>>> AC is scarce, but it seems to be in the hundreds.
>>>>
>>>> If only someone had predicted this.
>>>>
>>>
>>> The background is explained in layman's terms at:
>> I don't believe Dr. Hyde can be considered a layman with respect to this
>> particular topic.
>
> The way I'm forgetting things, I'll be back to "See Spot Run" any day now.
>
> I console myself with the fact that Mikhail Tal, the world chess champion, used to watch beginners'
> chess programs even when in his prime. "It never hurts to brush up on the fundamentals" he said (whether
> in Russian, Latvian, Yiddish, German, or English I do not know).
>
> Or maybe he was avoiding doing the laundry.
>
> William Hyde
>

In my job for a German auto maker I get assigned cases
when the dealer is stumped diagnosing a problem, especially
on a new product.

I find most mistakes start off on step 1 or 2, and once
missed the rest is fruitless. So it's helpful to review
the 101 stuff from time to time.

In a car that has some 36 networked computers, radars, sonars,
infrared detectors, 48 volt hybrid systems and really
truly badly over-engineered seats, sometimes technicians
get a little overwhelmed.

I mean honestly does a seat really need to have
8 electric cooling fans, 6 electric motors, 2 airbags
2 control units, 2 electric heaters, electric and
pyrotechnic belt and headrest tensioners?

And a sensor mat that can tell if an adult or child
is sitting there by computing the distance between
the center of mass of each butt cheek?
Short distance equals child of course.

Or be able to determine the difference between a cat, bag
of groceries or cell phone sitting there?

And even monitor the humidity inside the seat cushion
just in case Rex just peed into it or junior
has on a wet bathing suit?

And that's just the right front seat, for crying out loud.

--
https://twitter.com/Non_Linear1

On 7/3/2021 11:39 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
....
>> It keeps the hall with the thermostat at the requested temp, and would
>> likely do so even if we requested 60.
>>
>> But we never_will_ because that's way too much electricity we'd be
>> asking of it. And that bit about "the hall with the thermostat" is
>> significant, too, because the living room is 20-plus feet high and has
>> windows all over the south, southwest, and west walls. And since the
>> thermostat_isn't_ there, the main living area is always 4-5 degrees in
>> the undesirable direction from the temperature at the thermostat. Still,
>> that's not an A/C unit problem, that's a "stupid placement for the
>> thermostat" problem.

We have two air conditioners in our single story 3,300 ft2 house. The
same four ton unit cools/heats all four bedrooms even though the
bedrooms are not all on the same hallway.

Last winter, I had my a/c guy split the system in two and moved the hall
thermostat to my bedroom and put a thermostat outside my daughter's
bedroom. Instant zoned comfort ! It cost me $2,500 and was well worth it.

Lynn

On Sunday, July 4, 2021 at 7:45:20 PM UTC-4, Jonathan wrote:
> On 7/4/2021 4:30 PM, William Hyde wrote:
> > On Sunday, July 4, 2021 at 1:16:14 PM UTC-4, Paul S Person wrote:
> >> On Sat, 3 Jul 2021 14:30:43 -0700 (PDT), William Hyde
> >> <wthyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Saturday, July 3, 2021 at 12:47:56 PM UTC-4, Paul S Person wrote:
> >>>> On Sat, 3 Jul 2021 10:06:26 +1200, Titus G <no...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> On 3/07/21 9:07 am, William Hyde wrote:
> >>>>> snippage for brevity
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> The previous Canadian heat record dated from the 1930s. That has been
> >>>>>>>>>> shattered as
> >>>>>>>>>> several places have beaten the old record by more than a degree. Lytton
> >>>>>>>>>> BC hit 49+C or
> >>>>>>>>>> about 120F. It is now well over 451F in spots.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Uh... it's gone past that. Lytton is in flames. It appears that
> >>>>>>>>> all the inhabitants got out in time.
> >>>>>> All but two people accounted for, out of about a thousand in the village and immediate surroundings.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Not much is left of the town, apparently. Even the bridges are damaged.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Some towns in the area are experiencing both fire and flood. The heat wave is
> >>>>>> causing a vastly greater melt of the snow pack so water levels are rising. One town
> >>>>>> is busy raising the banks along it's reservoir which would otherwise have flooded the town.
> >>>>>> And still may.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The lower snow pack may lead to water shortages later in the summer.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> We haven't got a full count of the heat-related deaths in a part of the country where
> >>>>>> AC is scarce, but it seems to be in the hundreds.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> If only someone had predicted this.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The background is explained in layman's terms at:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> https://www.economist.com/the-economist-explains/2021/06/29/why-are-the-north-western-united-states-and-british-columbia-suffering-a-heatwave
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Due to climate change, they predict that such heat domes will become
> >>>>> more common and more extreme.
> >>>> Well, of course they do. And some may even be claiming that the
> >>>> warnings about climate change /were/ predictions of this.
> >>>
> >> >From IPCC:
> >>>
> >>> "Fire frequency is expected to increase with human-induced climate change, especially where precipitation remains the same or is reduced (Stocks et al., 1998). "
> >>>
> >>> Note that this refers to forest fires, not grass fires. Grass fires are decreasing, as the amount of grassland
> >>> decreases. Eventually the same will happen with forest fires, I assume. Problem solved!
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> What I found interesting is that one account blamed the "dome" of
> >>>
> >>> "on"?
> >> Indeed. Thanks.
> >>> the
> >>>> Jet Stream. I haven't seen/heard the Jet Stream invoked to explain our
> >>>> weather since the New Weather Gods (El Nino and La Nina) were
> >>>> discovered.
> >>>
> >>> Actually we've known about ENSO for over a century. And our weather in midlatitudes is
> >>> always a function of the jet stream to some degree.
> >> But they haven't been treated as Weather Gods for nearly that long.
> >
> >
> > Yes, I think it was the 83 el Nino that broke into public awareness. People started blaming
> > any intense event (hurricanes aside) on it (heard on an SF radio "Is this rainstorm an El Nino rainstorm?").
> >
> > This may be because the idea of teleconnection - predictable effects from a cause at great distance,
> > was becoming more widely known and applied to ENSO. So that a month of heavy snow, if not one
> > snowstorm, in Kentucky could be blamed on it.
> >
> > When I went to NASA in 86 I think three of the first four seminars I attended were on ENSO and it's
> > far-reaching effects.
> >
> > ISTR that the 75/76 El Nino got some mention - we had huge snowstorms in Kitchener/Waterloo and someone at the
> > university uttered the magic words (I said "Hun? El what?) but it didn't catch on.
> >
> > When I made the switch to climate, I was very surprised at just how long people had been analyzing
> > what we now cal ENSO.
> >
> The Worst Places for Hurricanes
>
> 1) Southeast Florida (Miami-Fort Lauderdale-West Palm Beach)
> https://www.bestplaces.net/docs/studies/hurricane_hotspots.aspx
>
>
> Living in Miami since 92 I've noticed hurricane
> seasons wax and wane kinda like solar cycles.
> We'll go 10 years or so with few major storms
> coming through, then have a couple years with
> one after another.
>
> We've had a long lull that seems to have ended
> with the 2020 record, and since the current
> tropical storm ELSA is the first time in history
> five names storms have happened by this date it
> looks like the next couple years they'll return
> with a vengeance.
>
> If you scroll down the Wiki page on florida
> hurricanes by year you can see the trend
>
> List of Florida hurricanes
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Florida_hurricanes_(2000%E2%80%93present)
>
> 2005 Atlantic hurricane season
> The 2005 Atlantic hurricane season was, at the time, the
> most active Atlantic hurricane season on record until
> the record was surpassed in 2020.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_Atlantic_hurricane_season
>
>
> I'll never forget 2005, the eye of Katrina went over
> my apartment on it's way to New Orleans. First time
> I heard, and...felt, an approaching eye wall.
>
> You could feel it approaching from the thunderbolts
> steadily marching closer and shaking the ground
> more and more.
>
> And Wilma also made a direct hit. Wilma was an incredible
> storm. Ya know they told us it was a Cat 1 as it approached
> the coast and that as usual it would weaken once on land.
>
> Boy were they wrong. Wilma, like Katrina, was so large
> in size hitting land only pissed it off and it
> exploded into a Cat 3 in no time.
>
> Some of the experiences from Wilma were memorable.
> Sitting in the bathtub slowly bouncing my shoulders
> off one side then the other from the ground moving
> back and forth due to wind against all the buildings.
>
> Loving weather I just had to look outside near
> peak winds, 110 or so, just to see what it
> looked like. The squall lines were moving so
> fast it looked like a time lapse video.
>
> And it appears while peeking out the door I witnessed
> a micro-burst. I stopped looking up and looked
> horizontal and all I saw is what looked like a huge
> wall of water, all looking like the spray from the
> end of a water hose, coming my way in a hurry.
>
> I just managed to slam the door when it hit with
> a huge splash like a wave hitting.
>
> And later while the storm was 100 plus, making a racket
> banging like hammers, whistling through the windows, roaring
> noises you couldn't posibly shout over, all of sudden
> for about five or ten seconds you could hear a pin drop.
>
> And it happened again about five minutes later.
> The noise returned just as fast as it stopped for
> those seconds. Only possible explanation is a
> couple of tornadoes went overhead. Pretty sure
> in between successive squall lines tornadoes spin up
> from the differential wind speeds between squall lines.
>
> I counted around 35 successive squall lines come through.
> Where as in Andrew, a small storm in size, I only
> counted 3 or 4.
>
> I learned in the eye of a large tornado you can hear a
> pin drop.
>
> I remember even after Wilma was long gone for a couple
> of hours, clear blue skies. it was still blowing 50 knots
> from the wake of the thing. And outside the buildings
> and ground were cold to the touch, the wind sucked all the
> heat out of them even though the air temp was in the 80's.
>
> The sizes of these storms needs to be taken into
> account somehow with the Samfir-Simpson scale.
>
> Not just wind speeds but geographical size too.
>
> Andrew spanned maybe half a county, Wilma and
> Katrina spanned half the STATE. They are clearly
> different categories of storms in that sense.
>
> I think climate change will be bringing larger
> sized storms too, not just stronger or more
> numerous storms.
>
> You can't evacuate from a super-storm like Katrina
> or Wilma. You CAN'T. By the time it's close enough
> to be fairly sure of its path, it's too late
> to evacuate since you'd have to drive so far to
> get out of it's path. You'll just ending up
> getting caught out on the highway.
>

On Tue, 6 Jul 2021 15:08:44 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 7/3/2021 11:39 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
>...
>>> It keeps the hall with the thermostat at the requested temp, and would
>>> likely do so even if we requested 60.
>>>
>>> But we never_will_ because that's way too much electricity we'd be
>>> asking of it. And that bit about "the hall with the thermostat" is
>>> significant, too, because the living room is 20-plus feet high and has
>>> windows all over the south, southwest, and west walls. And since the
>>> thermostat_isn't_ there, the main living area is always 4-5 degrees in
>>> the undesirable direction from the temperature at the thermostat. Still,
>>> that's not an A/C unit problem, that's a "stupid placement for the
>>> thermostat" problem.
>
>We have two air conditioners in our single story 3,300 ft2 house. The
>same four ton unit cools/heats all four bedrooms even though the
>bedrooms are not all on the same hallway.
>
>Last winter, I had my a/c guy split the system in two and moved the hall
>thermostat to my bedroom and put a thermostat outside my daughter's
>bedroom. Instant zoned comfort ! It cost me $2,500 and was well worth it.

I find the pricing encouragingly low.

Here's hoping the OP is encouraged to investigate!

Because I didn't say that.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

On 7/6/2021 8:12 PM, Kevrob wrote:
> On Sunday, July 4, 2021 at 7:45:20 PM UTC-4, Jonathan wrote:
>

>>
>> You can't evacuate from a super-storm like Katrina
>> or Wilma. You CAN'T. By the time it's close enough
>> to be fairly sure of its path, it's too late
>> to evacuate since you'd have to drive so far to
>> get out of it's path. You'll just ending up
>> getting caught out on the highway.
>>
>
> [snip]
>
> While it (Hurricane Sandy) was a Category 2 hurricane off the coast of the
> Northeastern United States, the storm became the largest Atlantic hurricane
> on record as measured by diameter, with tropical-storm-force winds spanning
> 1,150 miles (1,850 km)
>

I remember Sandy, it was also a huge storm.
And the effects of a hurricane are much worse
when it goes through a region that's not
used to them.

For instance down here just about anything that
couldn't take a 60 mph wind or so has long been
disposed of or destroyed. And a cat 1 won't take
out much of the electrical grid due to the
repeated 'testing' of it's weak spots.

But in a place like NY anything more than say 40 knots
will tear an incredible amount of debris loose
amplifying the damage done by the wind especially
to the very difficult to repair electrical grid.

> [/quote]
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Sandy
>
> This storm made landfall in the States "just to the Northeast of
> Atlantic City [NJ]" and I rode it out in a coastal Connecticut town,
> within walking distance of the LI Sound. It wasn't the first hurricane
> nor tropical storm I ever lived through, but none of the others that
> made it up to Long Island or CT in my lifetime were as dangerous.
> Hurricane Belle (1976) was the last storm I experienced before moving
> to the Midwest for ~ 3 decades, blizzards and the occasional tornado
> warning excepted.
>
> Evacuating _through_ New York City never made any sense.
> All you could do was hunker down. Hurricanes have changed
> the coastal inlets, especially where Fire Island defines
> the Great South Bay. Two of three breaches were filled with sand,
> but as for the third:

And even if you can evacuate are you any safer in some
cheesy hotel than at home?

I think about 15 years ago Florida had a hurricane
that was expected to hit the southern most Keys.

So everyone in the Keys were told to evacuate to Miami.

Then it turned north to Miami instead, so
the evacuees from the Keys were told to head
north to Orlando.

Then the storm made another unexpected turn
towards Orlando. So the evacuees from the Keys
were told to evacuate back to the Keys.

They got the nick-name 'boomerang evacuees'.
Roaming aimlessly around the state dodging
this hurricane.

>

> https://www.longislandpress.com/2017/10/11/fire-island-breach-stable-5-years-after-sandy-study-finds/
>
> https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2013/11/on-long-island-coast-an-unexpected-gift-from-hurricane-sandy/281423/ OR
>
> https://outline.com/9t3ySK
>
> Cleaner water, more flooding risk when the next big storm comes?
>
> I spent 16+ years of my childhood living in villages abutting the GSB,
> and the rest of my teen/college years in a village on the Sound.
>
> I can remember catching it from my parents when I wanted to
> stand out in the yard and experience the winds, if not the eye itself,
> of one of the storms in the mid-60s. We grew up on this stuff.
>
> "Q.) Dad, why do we have the ruins of stairs on the cliff
> down to the beach?
>
> A.) They got wrecked in the hurricane of `38, and we decided
> not to replace it. The cliff has eroded too much to support new
> stairs that would be up to code."
>
> So, if we wanted to take stairs, we had to use our the ones our Uncle
> and Aunt had put in two lots over. Usually we walked down the hill
> on the public road. Life's tough, sometimes. :)
>

--
https://twitter.com/Non_Linear1

Further to that recent thread, there was a picture essay in theguardium
online today:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/25/lytton-canada-heat-wildfire-record-temperatures

On Fri, 25 Jun 2021 14:44:37 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
Heydt) wrote:

>In article <48padgtshnoa2ot4t2mqdb710lkeechs49@4ax.com>,
>The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
>>On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 16:31:09 -0400, J. Clarke
>><jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>I'm trying to remember where I recently saw coverage
>>>>that indirectly implies it would be a good idea. Quora?
>>>>That Canadian roofs currently are meant to stand up
>>>>to quite a lot of snow, but sometimes don't.
>>
>>Must be talking about Toronto which is one of the few places on the
>>planet where you can own both a snow blower and air conditionings and
>>not be considered crazy (Says this smug Vancouverite who spent 4 years
>>living there 30 years ago and has no desire to go back)
>
>I went to a con in Vancouver once. It was July, and the weather
>was perfect. How are you doing up there, heat- and drought-wise?
>We're not so well off, down in California.

We had some brutal days in July and early August - even some deaths
due to heat stroke - but we're now at the point SWMBO (Google if you
don't know the acronym from Rumpole of the Bailey) has put away all
the floor fans but has left the table fans out. We have had a little
rain so our lawn is about 1/4 green 3/4 brown as opposed to all brown
2 weeks ago.

No major forest fires this year on the coast though it has been a bad
year for the fire crews inland.