On Thursday, July 29, 2021 at 10:06:57 AM UTC-6, Kevrob wrote:

> I seem to remember off-hand references to Anglic in Star
> Trek (TOS)

Huh???

> and a little googoling shows that term was used
> in some of the novels.

Ah. That is possible, I suppose.

John Savard

On Thursday, July 29, 2021 at 7:15:13 PM UTC-6, Robert Carnegie wrote:

> apparently is... the "Federation Standard" language
> in _Star Trek_, but there are half a dozen other words
> for it. It may be essentially English, but since French is
> reported as no longer used in the twenty-fourth century,
> it is not "comme il faut" to say so.

Although Jean-Luc Picard still has some acquaintance
with this dead language.

This reminds me of reading one of the Lensman novels;
after several references to the characters speaking a
language called "Standard Interplanetary", we have dialogue
including at least one pun proving that this language is
what we know as English.

John Savard

Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> schrieb:

> This reminds me of reading one of the Lensman novels;
> after several references to the characters speaking a
> language called "Standard Interplanetary", we have dialogue
> including at least one pun proving that this language is
> what we know as English.

There are puns that work in several languages, like "Where do cats
go when they die? To purrrgatory", which apparently works
for English, Spanish, Portugese, Italian and French.

And Standard Interplanetary could also have partially been based
on English, so that puns can be translated easily.

Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> on Thu, 29 Jul 2021 20:54:02 -0700 (PDT)
typed in rec.arts.sf.written the following:
>On Thursday, July 29, 2021 at 10:06:57 AM UTC-6, Kevrob wrote:
>
>> I seem to remember off-hand references to Anglic in Star
>> Trek (TOS)
>
>Huh???

There is always the issue of defining the "Current" language as
"not the English you knew in 1950/2020."
My Old English is not up to it, so you will just have to imagine a
book written in MVI set in the far future (MDC or later) where the
people speak a form of "Anglo-Saxon" which is quite different from
what "we" know the language to be.
>
>> and a little googoling shows that term was used
>> in some of the novels.
>Ah. That is possible, I suppose.

You have to call it something.

I used to refer to a made up alphabet as "Gaelic" ... till I met
some Scots who knew the Gael. I now call it "reformed Martian."
--
pyotr filipivich
This Week's Panel: Us & Them - Eliminating Them.
Next Month's Panel: Having eliminated the old Them(tm)
Selecting who insufficiently Woke(tm) as to serve as the new Them(tm)

In article <mb18ggd6o3ltji5mrkjqg8pqhc6v37rpvj@4ax.com>,
pyotr filipivich <phamp@mindspring.com> wrote:
>Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> on Thu, 29 Jul 2021 20:54:02 -0700 (PDT)
>typed in rec.arts.sf.written the following:
>>On Thursday, July 29, 2021 at 10:06:57 AM UTC-6, Kevrob wrote:
>>
>>> I seem to remember off-hand references to Anglic in Star
>>> Trek (TOS)
>>
>>Huh???
>
> There is always the issue of defining the "Current" language as
>"not the English you knew in 1950/2020."
> My Old English is not up to it, so you will just have to imagine a
>book written in MVI set in the far future (MDC or later) where the
>people speak a form of "Anglo-Saxon" which is quite different from
>what "we" know the language to be.
>>
>>> and a little googoling shows that term was used
>>> in some of the novels.
>>Ah. That is possible, I suppose.
>
> You have to call it something.
>
> I used to refer to a made up alphabet as "Gaelic" ... till I met
>some Scots who knew the Gael. I now call it "reformed Martian."

Clearly, you are a cool dude. Best of luck with your future
conlang construction.

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

Tangent: Graydon Saunders made some different choices in _The Human Dress_
which I think work better. Oxygen => "lifebreath" and nitrogen => "deadair"
for example.

/Bo Lindbergh

In article <seblg5$uju$1@dont-email.me>,
Bo Lindbergh <blgl@stacken.kth.se> wrote:
>Tangent: Graydon Saunders made some different choices in _The Human Dress_
>which I think work better. Oxygen => "lifebreath" and nitrogen => "deadair"
>for example.

By the way: I found my copy of _Homebrew_, the NESFA-published
limited-edition collection of Poul's lesser-known works, many of
which were previously published in fanzines. (It was not in the
fiction room; it was on Hal's desk, buried in 3x5" cards.)

The essay under discussion was originally titled "Uncleavish
Truethinking," and was published in ... well, I'll quote it,
because it gives a few Anglish forms that don't appear in the
essay itself.

"_Uncleavish Truethinking_, firstly in THE ANGLO-SAXON CHRONICLE,
book 922, tale 7. Outgiverright (c) 1960 by Hardrada Bookwright
Fellowship."

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) on Tue, 3 Aug 2021 15:24:45 GMT
typed in rec.arts.sf.written the following:
>In article <seblg5$uju$1@dont-email.me>,
>Bo Lindbergh <blgl@stacken.kth.se> wrote:
>>Tangent: Graydon Saunders made some different choices in _The Human Dress_
>>which I think work better. Oxygen => "lifebreath" and nitrogen => "deadair"
>>for example.
>
>By the way: I found my copy of _Homebrew_, the NESFA-published
>limited-edition collection of Poul's lesser-known works, many of
>which were previously published in fanzines. (It was not in the
>fiction room; it was on Hal's desk, buried in 3x5" cards.)
>
>The essay under discussion was originally titled "Uncleavish
>Truethinking," and was published in ... well, I'll quote it,
>because it gives a few Anglish forms that don't appear in the
>essay itself.
>
>"_Uncleavish Truethinking_, firstly in THE ANGLO-SAXON CHRONICLE,
>book 922, tale 7. Outgiverright (c) 1960 by Hardrada Bookwright
>Fellowship."

Danke.

pyotr

--
pyotr filipivich
This Week's Panel: Us & Them - Eliminating Them.
Next Month's Panel: Having eliminated the old Them(tm)
Selecting who insufficiently Woke(tm) as to serve as the new Them(tm)

On Wednesday, August 4, 2021 at 12:20:32 AM UTC-4, pyotr filipivich wrote:
> djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) on Tue, 3 Aug 2021 15:24:45 GMT
> typed in rec.arts.sf.written the following:
> >In article <seblg5$uju$1...@dont-email.me>,
> >Bo Lindbergh <bl...@stacken.kth.se> wrote:
> >>Tangent: Graydon Saunders made some different choices in _The Human Dress_
> >>which I think work better. Oxygen => "lifebreath" and nitrogen => "deadair"
> >>for example.
> >
> >By the way: I found my copy of _Homebrew_, the NESFA-published
> >limited-edition collection of Poul's lesser-known works, many of
> >which were previously published in fanzines. (It was not in the
> >fiction room; it was on Hal's desk, buried in 3x5" cards.)
> >
> >The essay under discussion was originally titled "Uncleavish
> >Truethinking," and was published in ... well, I'll quote it,
> >because it gives a few Anglish forms that don't appear in the
> >essay itself.
> >
> >"_Uncleavish Truethinking_, firstly in THE ANGLO-SAXON CHRONICLE,
> >book 922, tale 7. Outgiverright (c) 1960 by Hardrada Bookwright
> >Fellowship."
> Danke.
>

"Chronicle" is a bit Latinate, isn't it? hat would the Angle, Saxons &
Jutes have called a chronicle?

https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=chronicle

--
Kevin R

On 2021-08-06, Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> wrote:

>> >"_Uncleavish Truethinking_, firstly in THE ANGLO-SAXON CHRONICLE,
>> >book 922, tale 7. Outgiverright (c) 1960 by Hardrada Bookwright
>> >Fellowship."
>
> "Chronicle" is a bit Latinate, isn't it? hat would the Angle, Saxons &
> Jutes have called a chronicle?

You mean how _did_ they call the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle in Old English?
Oddly, the Wikipedia articles--I checked several languages--don't
say so. I guess the surviving manuscripts don't include a title?

--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de

In article <slrnsgqv57.15n5.naddy@lorvorc.mips.inka.de>,
Christian Weisgerber <naddy@mips.inka.de> wrote:
>On 2021-08-06, Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
>>> >"_Uncleavish Truethinking_, firstly in THE ANGLO-SAXON CHRONICLE,
>>> >book 922, tale 7. Outgiverright (c) 1960 by Hardrada Bookwright
>>> >Fellowship."
>>
>> "Chronicle" is a bit Latinate, isn't it? hat would the Angle, Saxons &
>> Jutes have called a chronicle?
>
>You mean how _did_ they call the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle in Old English?
>Oddly, the Wikipedia articles--I checked several languages--don't
>say so. I guess the surviving manuscripts don't include a title?
>
And if there were a label on the back of the codex (not always
the case; if you had five books in your library you'd know them
by their size, shape, and color), it probably said "Historia" or
"Annalia".

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> on Thu, 5 Aug 2021 21:49:32 -0700 (PDT)
typed in rec.arts.sf.written the following:
>
>> >
>> >"_Uncleavish Truethinking_, firstly in THE ANGLO-SAXON CHRONICLE,
>> >book 922, tale 7. Outgiverright (c) 1960 by Hardrada Bookwright
>> >Fellowship."
>> Danke.
>>
>
>"Chronicle" is a bit Latinate, isn't it? hat would the Angle, Saxons &
>Jutes have called a chronicle?

Saga?
--
pyotr filipivich
This Week's Panel: Us & Them - Eliminating Them.
Next Month's Panel: Having eliminated the old Them(tm)
Selecting who insufficiently Woke(tm) as to serve as the new Them(tm)

On Fri, 06 Aug 2021 12:27:15 -0700, pyotr filipivich
<phamp@mindspring.com> wrote:

>Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> on Thu, 5 Aug 2021 21:49:32 -0700 (PDT)
>typed in rec.arts.sf.written the following:
>>
>>> >
>>> >"_Uncleavish Truethinking_, firstly in THE ANGLO-SAXON CHRONICLE,
>>> >book 922, tale 7. Outgiverright (c) 1960 by Hardrada Bookwright
>>> >Fellowship."
>>> Danke.
>>>
>>
>>"Chronicle" is a bit Latinate, isn't it? hat would the Angle, Saxons &
>>Jutes have called a chronicle?
>
> Saga?

Would they have called it anything before the Romans showed up and
introduced them to the concept?

On Friday, 6 August 2021 at 20:05:03 UTC+1, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article <slrnsgqv57...@lorvorc.mips.inka.de>,
> Christian Weisgerber <na...@mips.inka.de> wrote:
> >On 2021-08-06, Kevrob <kev...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> >
> >>> >"_Uncleavish Truethinking_, firstly in THE ANGLO-SAXON CHRONICLE,
> >>> >book 922, tale 7. Outgiverright (c) 1960 by Hardrada Bookwright
> >>> >Fellowship."
> >>
> >> "Chronicle" is a bit Latinate, isn't it? hat would the Angle, Saxons &
> >> Jutes have called a chronicle?
> >
> >You mean how _did_ they call the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle in Old English?
> >Oddly, the Wikipedia articles--I checked several languages--don't
> >say so. I guess the surviving manuscripts don't include a title?
> >
> And if there were a label on the back of the codex (not always
> the case; if you had five books in your library you'd know them
> by their size, shape, and color), it probably said "Historia" or
> "Annalia".

I don't have a copy, but options seem to include
"Early English Annals" and "The Bilingual Canterbury
Epitome"!

Some newspapers have strange names: there was
a "Leicester Daily Mercury". I don't imagine that on
Mercury there's a "Daily Leicester".

Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> writes:
>On Friday, 6 August 2021 at 20:05:03 UTC+1, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>> In article <slrnsgqv57...@lorvorc.mips.inka.de>,

>> And if there were a label on the back of the codex (not always
>> the case; if you had five books in your library you'd know them
>> by their size, shape, and color), it probably said "Historia" or
>> "Annalia".
>
>I don't have a copy, but options seem to include
>"Early English Annals" and "The Bilingual Canterbury
>Epitome"!
>
>Some newspapers have strange names: there was
>a "Leicester Daily Mercury". I don't imagine that on
>Mercury there's a "Daily Leicester".

Although in this case, Mercury likely refers to the god
of communciations, not the planet.

On Friday, August 6, 2021 at 3:05:03 PM UTC-4, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article <slrnsgqv57...@lorvorc.mips.inka.de>,
> Christian Weisgerber <na...@mips.inka.de> wrote:
> >On 2021-08-06, Kevrob <kev...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> >
> >>> >"_Uncleavish Truethinking_, firstly in THE ANGLO-SAXON CHRONICLE,
> >>> >book 922, tale 7. Outgiverright (c) 1960 by Hardrada Bookwright
> >>> >Fellowship."
> >>
> >> "Chronicle" is a bit Latinate, isn't it? [W]hat would the Angle[s],
> >> Saxons & Jutes have called a chronicle?
> >
> >You mean how _did_ they call the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle in Old English?
> >Oddly, the Wikipedia articles--I checked several languages--don't
> >say so. I guess the surviving manuscripts don't include a title?
> >
> And if there were a label on the back of the codex (not always
> the case; if you had five books in your library you'd know them
> by their size, shape, and color), it probably said "Historia" or
> "Annalia".
> --

Both foreign loanwords (Greek through Latin, Latin)

--
Kevin R

On Friday, August 6, 2021 at 12:30:09 PM UTC-6, Christian Weisgerber wrote:

> Oddly, the Wikipedia articles--I checked several languages--don't
> say so. I guess the surviving manuscripts don't include a title?

My guess for the reason might be it wasn't collected into a single
volume, or considered a single work, until later?

John Savard

In article <5fd67d44-6d91-47f7-a91e-0420b3f47484n@googlegroups.com>,
Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> wrote:
>On Friday, August 6, 2021 at 3:05:03 PM UTC-4, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>> In article <slrnsgqv57...@lorvorc.mips.inka.de>,
>> Christian Weisgerber <na...@mips.inka.de> wrote:
>> >On 2021-08-06, Kevrob <kev...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >>> >"_Uncleavish Truethinking_, firstly in THE ANGLO-SAXON CHRONICLE,
>> >>> >book 922, tale 7. Outgiverright (c) 1960 by Hardrada Bookwright
>> >>> >Fellowship."
>> >>
>> >> "Chronicle" is a bit Latinate, isn't it? [W]hat would the Angle[s],
>> >> Saxons & Jutes have called a chronicle?
>> >
>> >You mean how _did_ they call the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle in Old English?
>> >Oddly, the Wikipedia articles--I checked several languages--don't
>> >say so. I guess the surviving manuscripts don't include a title?
>> >
>> And if there were a label on the back of the codex (not always
>> the case; if you had five books in your library you'd know them
>> by their size, shape, and color), it probably said "Historia" or
>> "Annalia".
>> --
>
>Both foreign loanwords (Greek through Latin, Latin)

Yes. But remember where the books were kept: in monasteries.

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

On Friday, August 6, 2021 at 7:25:09 PM UTC-4, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article <5fd67d44-6d91-47f7...@googlegroups.com>,
> Kevrob <kev...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> >On Friday, August 6, 2021 at 3:05:03 PM UTC-4, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> >> In article <slrnsgqv57...@lorvorc.mips.inka.de>,
> >> Christian Weisgerber <na...@mips.inka.de> wrote:
> >> >On 2021-08-06, Kevrob <kev...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >>> >"_Uncleavish Truethinking_, firstly in THE ANGLO-SAXON CHRONICLE,
> >> >>> >book 922, tale 7. Outgiverright (c) 1960 by Hardrada Bookwright
> >> >>> >Fellowship."
> >> >>
> >> >> "Chronicle" is a bit Latinate, isn't it? [W]hat would the Angle[s],
> >> >> Saxons & Jutes have called a chronicle?
> >> >
> >> >You mean how _did_ they call the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle in Old English?
> >> >Oddly, the Wikipedia articles--I checked several languages--don't
> >> >say so. I guess the surviving manuscripts don't include a title?
> >> >
> >> And if there were a label on the back of the codex (not always
> >> the case; if you had five books in your library you'd know them
> >> by their size, shape, and color), it probably said "Historia" or
> >> "Annalia".
> >> --
> >
> >Both foreign loanwords (Greek through Latin, Latin)
> Yes. But remember where the books were kept: in monasteries.
> --

Would "tale" work for those without Latin?

https://www.etymonline.com/word/tale

--
Kevin R

J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> on Fri, 06 Aug 2021 16:01:46
-0400 typed in rec.arts.sf.written the following:
>On Fri, 06 Aug 2021 12:27:15 -0700, pyotr filipivich
><phamp@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> on Thu, 5 Aug 2021 21:49:32 -0700 (PDT)
>>typed in rec.arts.sf.written the following:
>>>> >"_Uncleavish Truethinking_, firstly in THE ANGLO-SAXON CHRONICLE,
>>>> >book 922, tale 7. Outgiverright (c) 1960 by Hardrada Bookwright
>>>> >Fellowship."
>>>> Danke.
>>>>
>>>
>>>"Chronicle" is a bit Latinate, isn't it? hat would the Angle, Saxons &
>>>Jutes have called a chronicle?
>>
>> Saga?
>
>Would they have called it anything before the Romans showed up and
>introduced them to the concept?

Not sure what the Britons would have called it. Most cultures
have the "history", be it in ballad or poem, or a "written" version
(which may not be letters, but images of the year's significant
events.)
--
pyotr filipivich
This Week's Panel: Us & Them - Eliminating Them.
Next Month's Panel: Having eliminated the old Them(tm)
Selecting who insufficiently Woke(tm) as to serve as the new Them(tm)

On Fri, 06 Aug 2021 16:01:46 -0400, J. Clarke
<jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Fri, 06 Aug 2021 12:27:15 -0700, pyotr filipivich
><phamp@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>>Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> on Thu, 5 Aug 2021 21:49:32 -0700 (PDT)
>>typed in rec.arts.sf.written the following:
>>>
>>>> >
>>>> >"_Uncleavish Truethinking_, firstly in THE ANGLO-SAXON CHRONICLE,
>>>> >book 922, tale 7. Outgiverright (c) 1960 by Hardrada Bookwright
>>>> >Fellowship."
>>>> Danke.
>>>>
>>>
>>>"Chronicle" is a bit Latinate, isn't it? hat would the Angle, Saxons &
>>>Jutes have called a chronicle?
>>
>> Saga?
>
>Would they have called it anything before the Romans showed up and
>introduced them to the concept?

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Saxon_Chronicle> states that

The original manuscript of the Chronicle was created late in the 9th
century, probably in Wessex, during the reign of Alfred the Great (r.
871–899). Multiple copies were made of that one original and then
distributed to monasteries across England, where they were
independently updated. In one case, the Chronicle was still being
actively updated in 1154.

which was long after the Romans had come and gone.

Perhaps, even at that time, "Chronicle" was a loan-word.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

In article <kv7tggt34gttaqp32h4aqcnjspjgf55l75@4ax.com>,
pyotr filipivich <phamp@mindspring.com> wrote:
>J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> on Fri, 06 Aug 2021 16:01:46
>-0400 typed in rec.arts.sf.written the following:
>>On Fri, 06 Aug 2021 12:27:15 -0700, pyotr filipivich
>><phamp@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>>Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> on Thu, 5 Aug 2021 21:49:32 -0700 (PDT)
>>>typed in rec.arts.sf.written the following:
>>>>> >"_Uncleavish Truethinking_, firstly in THE ANGLO-SAXON CHRONICLE,
>>>>> >book 922, tale 7. Outgiverright (c) 1960 by Hardrada Bookwright
>>>>> >Fellowship."
>>>>> Danke.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Chronicle" is a bit Latinate, isn't it? hat would the Angle, Saxons &
>>>>Jutes have called a chronicle?
>>>
>>> Saga?
>>
>>Would they have called it anything before the Romans showed up and
>>introduced them to the concept?
>
> Not sure what the Britons would have called it. Most cultures
>have the "history", be it in ballad or poem, or a "written" version
>(which may not be letters, but images of the year's significant
>events.)

True. There are all those Aztec codices, which do have some
writing, but only to identify the main characters.

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

In article <2rdtgg1kf3jva45gkgdgdq94k6p9mfg39v@4ax.com>,
Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>On Fri, 06 Aug 2021 16:01:46 -0400, J. Clarke
><jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 06 Aug 2021 12:27:15 -0700, pyotr filipivich
>><phamp@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> on Thu, 5 Aug 2021 21:49:32 -0700 (PDT)
>>>typed in rec.arts.sf.written the following:
>>>>
>>>>> >
>>>>> >"_Uncleavish Truethinking_, firstly in THE ANGLO-SAXON CHRONICLE,
>>>>> >book 922, tale 7. Outgiverright (c) 1960 by Hardrada Bookwright
>>>>> >Fellowship."
>>>>> Danke.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Chronicle" is a bit Latinate, isn't it? hat would the Angle, Saxons &
>>>>Jutes have called a chronicle?
>>>
>>> Saga?
>>
>>Would they have called it anything before the Romans showed up and
>>introduced them to the concept?
>
><https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Saxon_Chronicle> states that
>
>The original manuscript of the Chronicle was created late in the 9th
>century, probably in Wessex, during the reign of Alfred the Great (r.
>871�899). Multiple copies were made of that one original and then
>distributed to monasteries across England, where they were
>independently updated. In one case, the Chronicle was still being
>actively updated in 1154.
>
>which was long after the Romans had come and gone.
>
>Perhaps, even at that time, "Chronicle" was a loan-word.

That, I can't say. Wish I could.

But St. Augustine of Canterbury re-established the Church in
England in 597 CE, and Latin loan-words came with it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augustine_of_Canterbury

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

On Saturday, August 7, 2021 at 1:40:03 PM UTC-4, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article <2rdtgg1kf3jva45gk...@4ax.com>,
> Paul S Person <pspe...@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
> >On Fri, 06 Aug 2021 16:01:46 -0400, J. Clarke
> ><jclarke...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >>On Fri, 06 Aug 2021 12:27:15 -0700, pyotr filipivich
> >><ph...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>>Kevrob <kev...@my-deja.com> on Thu, 5 Aug 2021 21:49:32 -0700 (PDT)
> >>>typed in rec.arts.sf.written the following:
> >>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> >"_Uncleavish Truethinking_, firstly in THE ANGLO-SAXON CHRONICLE,
> >>>>> >book 922, tale 7. Outgiverright (c) 1960 by Hardrada Bookwright
> >>>>> >Fellowship."
> >>>>> Danke.
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>"Chronicle" is a bit Latinate, isn't it? hat would the Angle, Saxons &
> >>>>Jutes have called a chronicle?
> >>>
> >>> Saga?
> >>
> >>Would they have called it anything before the Romans showed up and
> >>introduced them to the concept?
> >
> ><https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Saxon_Chronicle> states that
> >
> >The original manuscript of the Chronicle was created late in the 9th
> >century, probably in Wessex, during the reign of Alfred the Great (r.
> >871–899). Multiple copies were made of that one original and then
> >distributed to monasteries across England, where they were
> >independently updated. In one case, the Chronicle was still being
> >actively updated in 1154.
> >
> >which was long after the Romans had come and gone.
> >
> >Perhaps, even at that time, "Chronicle" was a loan-word.
> That, I can't say. Wish I could.
>
> But St. Augustine of Canterbury re-established the Church in
> England in 597 CE, and Latin loan-words came with it.

Nitpick: Christianity was still common in the west, while Northumbria's population had a substantial Christian element, due to Irish missionaries (our SF connection, of course, being De Camp's "The Wheels
of If").

St Augustine re-established the Catholic church, thereby ensuring, as it turned out,
almost a thousand years of revenue for Rome, and forever altering the calculation
of the date of Easter in the UK.

William Hyde

On Saturday, August 7, 2021 at 1:40:03 PM UTC-4, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article <2rdtgg1kf3jva45gk...@4ax.com>,
> Paul S Person <pspe...@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
> >On Fri, 06 Aug 2021 16:01:46 -0400, J. Clarke
> ><jclarke...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >>On Fri, 06 Aug 2021 12:27:15 -0700, pyotr filipivich
> >><ph...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>>Kevrob <kev...@my-deja.com> on Thu, 5 Aug 2021 21:49:32 -0700 (PDT)
> >>>typed in rec.arts.sf.written the following:
> >>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> >"_Uncleavish Truethinking_, firstly in THE ANGLO-SAXON CHRONICLE,
> >>>>> >book 922, tale 7. Outgiverright (c) 1960 by Hardrada Bookwright
> >>>>> >Fellowship."
> >>>>> Danke.
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>"Chronicle" is a bit Latinate, isn't it? hat would the Angle, Saxons &
> >>>>Jutes have called a chronicle?
> >>>
> >>> Saga?
> >>
> >>Would they have called it anything before the Romans showed up and
> >>introduced them to the concept?
> >
> ><https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Saxon_Chronicle> states that
> >
> >The original manuscript of the Chronicle was created late in the 9th
> >century, probably in Wessex, during the reign of Alfred the Great (r.
> >871–899). Multiple copies were made of that one original and then
> >distributed to monasteries across England, where they were
> >independently updated. In one case, the Chronicle was still being
> >actively updated in 1154.
> >
> >which was long after the Romans had come and gone.
> >
> >Perhaps, even at that time, "Chronicle" was a loan-word.
> That, I can't say. Wish I could.
>
> But St. Augustine of Canterbury re-established the Church in
> England in 597 CE, and Latin loan-words came with it.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augustine_of_Canterbury

Christianity existed in Britain at least back to the early 3rd Century.
There is good evidence of continuity up until Augustine's arrival.

Pt