On Thursday, 14 April 2022 at 05:09:55 UTC+1, J. Clarke wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 03:32:12 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
> Heydt) wrote:
> > he lets them talk for maybe ten seconds and then
> >"You're a scammer. Don't call this number again." If they
> >persist, he starts shouting. He has a very loud shout.
>
> The latest one for me is someone informing me that a Macbook Pro has
> been ordered on my Amazon account. Of course Amazon has no record of
> this order.

I had a robot calling me about what would have been
a moderately expensive Amazon Prime video subscription.

If concerned that maybe your Amazon account was
misused - I think that using a trustworthy PC to check
the account for orders made. But basically the scammer
wants you to give account or bank details or password
to the criminal.

Naughty people listening or peeking in your window
!isn't out of the question - people who live in basements,
aside - so don't, you know, sing your password when you
type it, or expose your credentials in public view.

On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 08:13:49 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
<rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote:

>On Thursday, 14 April 2022 at 05:09:55 UTC+1, J. Clarke wrote:
>> On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 03:32:12 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
>> Heydt) wrote:
>> > he lets them talk for maybe ten seconds and then
>> >"You're a scammer. Don't call this number again." If they
>> >persist, he starts shouting. He has a very loud shout.
>>
>> The latest one for me is someone informing me that a Macbook Pro has
>> been ordered on my Amazon account. Of course Amazon has no record of
>> this order.
>
>I had a robot calling me about what would have been
>a moderately expensive Amazon Prime video subscription.
>
>If concerned that maybe your Amazon account was
>misused - I think that using a trustworthy PC to check
>the account for orders made. But basically the scammer
>wants you to give account or bank details or password
>to the criminal.
>
>Naughty people listening or peeking in your window
>!isn't out of the question - people who live in basements,
>aside - so don't, you know, sing your password when you
>type it, or expose your credentials in public view.

One to watch for is saying the word "Yes" to one of these scammers.

J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
>On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 08:13:49 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
><rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote:

>>Naughty people listening or peeking in your window
>>!isn't out of the question - people who live in basements,
>>aside - so don't, you know, sing your password when you
>>type it, or expose your credentials in public view.
>
>One to watch for is saying the word "Yes" to one of these scammers.

Widely considered to be an urban legand.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Can_You_Hear_Me%3F_(telephone_scam)
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/can-you-hear-me-scam/

On Wed, 13 Apr 2022 22:59:46 -0400, J. Clarke
<jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Wed, 13 Apr 2022 19:56:03 -0500, Lynn McGuire
><lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On 4/13/2022 6:46 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>...
>>> Fortunately, my left hand is the dominant. Unfortunately, there
>>> isn't room on the tray for the keyboard and *two* trackballs.
>>> (It's your standard rolling hospital-type tray table.) And I
>>> don't know if I could retrain my left hand to trackball use.
>>> I've used the trackball with my right hand ever since the 1990s,
>>> when I worked for a professor of molecular biology, in whose
>>> lab all the graduate students and postdocs used Macs, and the
>>> secretary had to do the same. They all used mice. There wasn't
>>> room on my desk for a mousepad, but there was a trackball sitting
>>> around in a storage room. That went under my right hand, leaving
>>> my left hand free to take messages. That was a long time ago.
>>
>>Here is a list of speech recognition software, some pay for and some
>>free. Some on PC, Mac, or Linux.
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_speech_recognition_software
>>
>>My 2019 F-150 has speech recognition for the radio, phone, and
>>navigation controls. It sucks. I will press the steering wheel button,
>>and say "call dad". It promptly calls Ryan (not my Dad !). If I say
>>"call Ryan" it calls Ryan's brother Mike. Of course, I do not think
>>that the system was tuned for east Texas Redneck.
>>
>>The worst is navigation. I will press the steering wheel button and say
>>"navigate to the Sheraton Hotel in Oklahoma City". It will come back
>>and say "did you mean navigate to Sherman, Texas ?". It is faster to
>>stop and type in the address on the side of the road.
>
>Just use Google Maps on your phone. If navigation is included free
>with the car fine, but I wouldn't pay a cent extra for a car company's
>navigation system.
>
>My pet peeve is the damned radio. Have to use a voice command to turn
>it on. And the damned thing is deaf as a post. Of course that's
>Microsoft Stink but I suspect that Ford Stink isn't any better.
>
>And Ford thinks that they're going to have a self-driving system
>sometime in this millennium.

But will it make a break when pulled over by a cop?
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 03:32:12 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
Heydt) wrote:

>In article <t37rf4$ufj$1@dont-email.me>,
>Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>>On 4/13/2022 6:46 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>...
>>> Fortunately, my left hand is the dominant. Unfortunately, there
>>> isn't room on the tray for the keyboard and *two* trackballs.
>>> (It's your standard rolling hospital-type tray table.) And I
>>> don't know if I could retrain my left hand to trackball use.
>>> I've used the trackball with my right hand ever since the 1990s,
>>> when I worked for a professor of molecular biology, in whose
>>> lab all the graduate students and postdocs used Macs, and the
>>> secretary had to do the same. They all used mice. There wasn't
>>> room on my desk for a mousepad, but there was a trackball sitting
>>> around in a storage room. That went under my right hand, leaving
>>> my left hand free to take messages. That was a long time ago.
>>
>>Here is a list of speech recognition software, some pay for and some
>>free. Some on PC, Mac, or Linux.
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_speech_recognition_software
>>
>>My 2019 F-150 has speech recognition for the radio, phone, and
>>navigation controls. It sucks. I will press the steering wheel button,
>>and say "call dad". It promptly calls Ryan (not my Dad !). If I say
>>"call Ryan" it calls Ryan's brother Mike. Of course, I do not think
>>that the system was tuned for east Texas Redneck.
>
>Probably doesn't speak SF Bay Area either.
>>
>>The worst is navigation. I will press the steering wheel button and say
>>"navigate to the Sheraton Hotel in Oklahoma City". It will come back
>>and say "did you mean navigate to Sherman, Texas ?". It is faster to
>>stop and type in the address on the side of the road.
>
>Ay, ay, ay! See my previous post about muddled speech.
>
>I similarly have to get Hal to talk to pharmacists and such folk.
>
>And for some reason our landline is beset by scammers who
>(mostly) claim to be Medicare (which never calls patients). Then
>there are people who claim to represent MasterCard, Visa, AND
>Discover, those who want to give us discounts on things we don't
>want to buy, and the great-granddaddy of all scammers, Publishers
>Clearing House.

IIRC, some of the PCH calls which are scams ... are not from PCH.

>I no longer attempt to answer the landline when it rings; Hal growls
>"I'll get it," grabs the handset, and gives the following range of
>answers:
>
>If they ask for me, "What did you want to talk to her about? ...
>Medicare never phones anybody, Does your mother know you're a
>scammer?"
>
>Otherwise, he lets them talk for maybe ten seconds and then
>"You're a scammer. Don't call this number again." If they
>persist, he starts shouting. He has a very loud shout.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 00:09:50 -0400, J. Clarke
<jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 03:32:12 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
>Heydt) wrote:
>
>>In article <t37rf4$ufj$1@dont-email.me>,
>>Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>On 4/13/2022 6:46 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>>...
>>>> Fortunately, my left hand is the dominant. Unfortunately, there
>>>> isn't room on the tray for the keyboard and *two* trackballs.
>>>> (It's your standard rolling hospital-type tray table.) And I
>>>> don't know if I could retrain my left hand to trackball use.
>>>> I've used the trackball with my right hand ever since the 1990s,
>>>> when I worked for a professor of molecular biology, in whose
>>>> lab all the graduate students and postdocs used Macs, and the
>>>> secretary had to do the same. They all used mice. There wasn't
>>>> room on my desk for a mousepad, but there was a trackball sitting
>>>> around in a storage room. That went under my right hand, leaving
>>>> my left hand free to take messages. That was a long time ago.
>>>
>>>Here is a list of speech recognition software, some pay for and some
>>>free. Some on PC, Mac, or Linux.
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_speech_recognition_software
>>>
>>>My 2019 F-150 has speech recognition for the radio, phone, and
>>>navigation controls. It sucks. I will press the steering wheel button,
>>>and say "call dad". It promptly calls Ryan (not my Dad !). If I say
>>>"call Ryan" it calls Ryan's brother Mike. Of course, I do not think
>>>that the system was tuned for east Texas Redneck.
>>
>>Probably doesn't speak SF Bay Area either.
>>>
>>>The worst is navigation. I will press the steering wheel button and say
>>>"navigate to the Sheraton Hotel in Oklahoma City". It will come back
>>>and say "did you mean navigate to Sherman, Texas ?". It is faster to
>>>stop and type in the address on the side of the road.
>>
>>Ay, ay, ay! See my previous post about muddled speech.
>>
>>I similarly have to get Hal to talk to pharmacists and such folk.
>>
>>And for some reason our landline is beset by scammers who
>>(mostly) claim to be Medicare (which never calls patients). Then
>>there are people who claim to represent MasterCard, Visa, AND
>>Discover, those who want to give us discounts on things we don't
>>want to buy, and the great-granddaddy of all scammers, Publishers
>>Clearing House.
>>
>>I no longer attempt to answer the landline when it rings; Hal growls
>>"I'll get it," grabs the handset, and gives the following range of
>>answers:
>>
>>If they ask for me, "What did you want to talk to her about? ...
>>Medicare never phones anybody, Does your mother know you're a
>>scammer?"
>>
>>Otherwise, he lets them talk for maybe ten seconds and then
>>"You're a scammer. Don't call this number again." If they
>>persist, he starts shouting. He has a very loud shout.
>
>The latest one for me is someone informing me that a Macbook Pro has
>been ordered on my Amazon account. Of course Amazon has no record of
>this order.

All I get are assertions that $299.00 has been charged to my Amazon
account. I don't even bother checking on this until the next weekend
(I verify all charges with my records each weekend).

The ones I /especially/ enjoy are the attempts to "extend your auto
warranty". I haven't owned a vehiclde since 1982, and /that/ was in
Germany.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 11:36:06 -0400, J. Clarke
<jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 08:13:49 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
><rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote:
>
>>On Thursday, 14 April 2022 at 05:09:55 UTC+1, J. Clarke wrote:
>>> On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 03:32:12 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
>>> Heydt) wrote:
>>> > he lets them talk for maybe ten seconds and then
>>> >"You're a scammer. Don't call this number again." If they
>>> >persist, he starts shouting. He has a very loud shout.
>>>
>>> The latest one for me is someone informing me that a Macbook Pro has
>>> been ordered on my Amazon account. Of course Amazon has no record of
>>> this order.
>>
>>I had a robot calling me about what would have been
>>a moderately expensive Amazon Prime video subscription.
>>
>>If concerned that maybe your Amazon account was
>>misused - I think that using a trustworthy PC to check
>>the account for orders made. But basically the scammer
>>wants you to give account or bank details or password
>>to the criminal.
>>
>>Naughty people listening or peeking in your window
>>!isn't out of the question - people who live in basements,
>>aside - so don't, you know, sing your password when you
>>type it, or expose your credentials in public view.
>
>One to watch for is saying the word "Yes" to one of these scammers.

Just one of the many reasons I let my trusty answer machine take all
incoming calls. Unless I am expecting one (as from a furnace
technician to confirm that I am at home for the annual checkup).

Thanks to the Wonders of Modern Scamming Technology, most of those
calls are ... empty air. It has been suggested (possibly here) that
this is because their autodialer, realizing it's on an answer machine,
drops the call rather than connecting it.

Then there are the days when I get 14 identical taped messages, each
more degraded (that's how I know they are taped -- digital messages
don't degrade, at least not physically) than the last.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

In article <fbb74bc0-6f28-4646-a90d-6b83fcc084b2n@googlegroups.com>,
Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote:
>On Thursday, 14 April 2022 at 05:09:55 UTC+1, J. Clarke wrote:
>> On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 03:32:12 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
>> Heydt) wrote:
>> > he lets them talk for maybe ten seconds and then
>> >"You're a scammer. Don't call this number again." If they
>> >persist, he starts shouting. He has a very loud shout.
>>
>> The latest one for me is someone informing me that a Macbook Pro has
>> been ordered on my Amazon account. Of course Amazon has no record of
>> this order.
>
>I had a robot calling me about what would have been
>a moderately expensive Amazon Prime video subscription.
>
>If concerned that maybe your Amazon account was
>misused - I think that using a trustworthy PC to check
>the account for orders made. But basically the scammer
>wants you to give account or bank details or password
>to the criminal.

Yeah, like that's going to happen.

I consider my PC trustworthy; Hal, my husband and sysadmin,
trained in the Engineering, not the Letters&Science curriculum
at Berkeley, and has fifty-odd years' worth of professional
programmer's distrust of hardware, software, and firmware.

To say nothing of wetware.

>Naughty people listening or peeking in your window
>!isn't out of the question - people who live in basements,
>aside - so don't, you know, sing your password when you
>type it, or expose your credentials in public view.

I don't sing passwords; indeed, I can't sing at all any more.
And the only credentials I expose in public view is my CDC vaxxed
card. I'm willing to show that to anyone who asks.

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

In article <orig5hpmh2o2i7kksnu1ubagcfa76l8lok@4ax.com>,
Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 00:09:50 -0400, J. Clarke

[schnipp, we've all seen the context]
>
>
>The ones I /especially/ enjoy are the attempts to "extend your auto
>warranty". I haven't owned a vehiclde since 1982, and /that/ was in
>Germany.

Heh. I have never owned a vehicle in my life; never learned to
drive (but that's another story).

Hal owns two vehicles: a Nissan pickup inherited from his sister,
and a huge Dodge van that I saw on the street, offered for sale
for $900.00, which by happy coincidence was the amount I had just
sold a story to MZB for. They were built in 1985 and 1968,
respectively, and they're both falling apart. Warranties? it is
to laugh.

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

In article <opig5h50mo6doceon3oeicbnh46dg18641@4ax.com>,
Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 03:32:12 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
>Heydt) wrote:
>
>>And for some reason our landline is beset by scammers who
>>(mostly) claim to be Medicare (which never calls patients). Then
>>there are people who claim to represent MasterCard, Visa, AND
>>Discover, those who want to give us discounts on things we don't
>>want to buy, and the great-granddaddy of all scammers, Publishers
>>Clearing House.
>
>IIRC, some of the PCH calls which are scams ... are not from PCH.

This does not surprise me. Makes no difference.
>

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

On Wednesday, April 13, 2022 at 11:24:08 PM UTC-6, grschm...@gmail.com wrote:
> On 13/04/2022 23:44, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:

> > Another title inspired by a quotation: from "Gaudeamus Igitur,"
> > whose text is medieval but whose music is Classical.
> >
> > Vita nostra brevis est,
> > Brevi finietur;
> > Venit mors velociter,
> > Rapit nos atrociter,
> > Nemini parceter.
> >
> > Our life is short,
> > It ends quickly;
> > Death comes rapidly,
> > It seizes us cruelly,
> > It spares no one.
> >
> >
> It's been over forty years, but (not claiming the spelling is accurate!)...
>
> Gaudeamus igitur,
> Juvenes dum sumus,
> Gaudeamus igitur,
> Juvenes dum sumus.
> Post jucundam juventutem,
> Post selectam senectutem,
> Nos habebit humus,
> Nos habebit humus.
>
> Vivat acadaemia,
> Vivant professores,
> Vivat acadaemia,
> Vivant professores,
> Vivat membram quaelibet,
> Vivant membra quadlibet,
> Semper sint in flores,
> Semper sint in flores.

There are other verses -

Vivat et respublica,
Et qui illam regit,
Vivat nostra civitas,
Mecaentum caritas,
Quae nos hic protegit.

Pereat tristitia,
Pereant ossores,
Pereat diabolus,
Quivis Antiburshius,
Atque irrisores.

And, of course, the _most_ memorable verse:

Vivant omnes virgines
Faciles, formosae
Vivant et mulieres,
Bonae, laboriosae.

Where five lines are shown, the first two are
repeated twice and the last one; where there are only
four, the first two were combined into the first, I think...

John Savard

On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 16:17:52 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

>J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
>>On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 08:13:49 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
>><rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote:
>
>>>Naughty people listening or peeking in your window
>>>!isn't out of the question - people who live in basements,
>>>aside - so don't, you know, sing your password when you
>>>type it, or expose your credentials in public view.
>>
>>One to watch for is saying the word "Yes" to one of these scammers.
>
>Widely considered to be an urban legand.
>
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Can_You_Hear_Me%3F_(telephone_scam)
>https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/can-you-hear-me-scam/

I used to believe it, but still avoid saying "yes" since it confuses
and winds up the scammers, presumably because they stall on their
script and can't proceed without a "yes".

--
Jerry Brown

A cat may look at a king
(but probably won't bother)

On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 09:29:33 -0700, Paul S Person
<psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:

>On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 00:09:50 -0400, J. Clarke
><jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 03:32:12 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
>>Heydt) wrote:
>>
>>>In article <t37rf4$ufj$1@dont-email.me>,
>>>Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>On 4/13/2022 6:46 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>>>...
>>>>> Fortunately, my left hand is the dominant. Unfortunately, there
>>>>> isn't room on the tray for the keyboard and *two* trackballs.
>>>>> (It's your standard rolling hospital-type tray table.) And I
>>>>> don't know if I could retrain my left hand to trackball use.
>>>>> I've used the trackball with my right hand ever since the 1990s,
>>>>> when I worked for a professor of molecular biology, in whose
>>>>> lab all the graduate students and postdocs used Macs, and the
>>>>> secretary had to do the same. They all used mice. There wasn't
>>>>> room on my desk for a mousepad, but there was a trackball sitting
>>>>> around in a storage room. That went under my right hand, leaving
>>>>> my left hand free to take messages. That was a long time ago.
>>>>
>>>>Here is a list of speech recognition software, some pay for and some
>>>>free. Some on PC, Mac, or Linux.
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_speech_recognition_software
>>>>
>>>>My 2019 F-150 has speech recognition for the radio, phone, and
>>>>navigation controls. It sucks. I will press the steering wheel button,
>>>>and say "call dad". It promptly calls Ryan (not my Dad !). If I say
>>>>"call Ryan" it calls Ryan's brother Mike. Of course, I do not think
>>>>that the system was tuned for east Texas Redneck.
>>>
>>>Probably doesn't speak SF Bay Area either.
>>>>
>>>>The worst is navigation. I will press the steering wheel button and say
>>>>"navigate to the Sheraton Hotel in Oklahoma City". It will come back
>>>>and say "did you mean navigate to Sherman, Texas ?". It is faster to
>>>>stop and type in the address on the side of the road.
>>>
>>>Ay, ay, ay! See my previous post about muddled speech.
>>>
>>>I similarly have to get Hal to talk to pharmacists and such folk.
>>>
>>>And for some reason our landline is beset by scammers who
>>>(mostly) claim to be Medicare (which never calls patients). Then
>>>there are people who claim to represent MasterCard, Visa, AND
>>>Discover, those who want to give us discounts on things we don't
>>>want to buy, and the great-granddaddy of all scammers, Publishers
>>>Clearing House.
>>>
>>>I no longer attempt to answer the landline when it rings; Hal growls
>>>"I'll get it," grabs the handset, and gives the following range of
>>>answers:
>>>
>>>If they ask for me, "What did you want to talk to her about? ...
>>>Medicare never phones anybody, Does your mother know you're a
>>>scammer?"
>>>
>>>Otherwise, he lets them talk for maybe ten seconds and then
>>>"You're a scammer. Don't call this number again." If they
>>>persist, he starts shouting. He has a very loud shout.
>>
>>The latest one for me is someone informing me that a Macbook Pro has
>>been ordered on my Amazon account. Of course Amazon has no record of
>>this order.
>
>All I get are assertions that $299.00 has been charged to my Amazon
>account. I don't even bother checking on this until the next weekend
>(I verify all charges with my records each weekend).
>
>The ones I /especially/ enjoy are the attempts to "extend your auto
>warranty". I haven't owned a vehiclde since 1982, and /that/ was in
>Germany.

I used to get those at work. I always tried to be helpful. I would
ask which vehicle. The response "*the* vehicle". I would explain
that there were over 4,000 cars and light trucks, an assortment of
earthmoving equipment, and two helicopters at that location, so I
really needed to know which one in order to properly direct their
call. They would then ask to speak to the person in charge. I would
tell them that they had to call the main switchboard and gave them the
name of the CEO.

This amused my coworkers no end.

On Wed, 13 Apr 2022 21:10:40 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
Heydt) wrote:

<snippo>

>I've got a trackball already. (I don't have room on my tray for
>a mousepad.) But my right thumb is the one that's *supposed* to
>depress the left button, and the muscle that would make that
>happen was the second casualty of my ALS. (The first was my
>legs.) A secondary thumb muscle still works to depress the
>button, if I put the thumb exactly on the correct quarter of a
>square inch of the one-by-two-inches left button, which means I
>have to look at the trackball to find it. I then have to reach
>over with my left hand to move the ball *exactly* across the line
>I want to copy. This task grows less worth the effort as time
>passes.

I just did a test in Agent:
-- move the mouse cursor over the link
-- press the popup menu button
-- select "Launch" by pressing the highlighted letter "L"
.... and the link comes right up!

The point of this is, you may not need to click the mouse, at least
not to follow a link, depending on how the program you are using
behaves. Other actions may be possible. There may be software out
there that can allow you to map, say, a function key to produce a left
button click.

The product looks like a very nice trackball. But so is my trusty
Logitech TrackMan Marble, purchsed 10.5 years ago and still going
strong.

Note: the "popup menu button" is that weird-looking thing that brings
the same menu as pressing the right button on the mouse. The
difference being that, when accessed through the keyboard the "hot
keys" are underlined (or otherwise emphasized), while when accessed
through the right mouse button, they usually are not.

Note to the ultra-PC: I am using "left" and "right" because my reading
of her description leads me to believe she is using the trackball with
her right hand and with the left button as "primary".
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

Paul S Person wrote:
>
> Note to the ultra-PC: I am using "left" and "right" because my reading
> of her description leads me to believe she is using the trackball with
> her right hand and with the left button as "primary".

Oh, what sort of buttons does the trackball on the Ultra PC have? I'm picturing one under each finger... no, three: the fingers naturally rest on the home row of buttons, but can reach up or down for additional ones!

--
-Jack

In article <gs5j5hpeuj6uldn57kkfj7266ud8ditquq@4ax.com>,
Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>On Wed, 13 Apr 2022 21:10:40 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
>Heydt) wrote:
>
><snippo>
>
>>I've got a trackball already. (I don't have room on my tray for
>>a mousepad.) But my right thumb is the one that's *supposed* to
>>depress the left button, and the muscle that would make that
>>happen was the second casualty of my ALS. (The first was my
>>legs.) A secondary thumb muscle still works to depress the
>>button, if I put the thumb exactly on the correct quarter of a
>>square inch of the one-by-two-inches left button, which means I
>>have to look at the trackball to find it. I then have to reach
>>over with my left hand to move the ball *exactly* across the line
>>I want to copy. This task grows less worth the effort as time
>>passes.
>
>I just did a test in Agent:
>-- move the mouse cursor over the link
>-- press the popup menu button
>-- select "Launch" by pressing the highlighted letter "L"
>... and the link comes right up!

If I have anything like Agent on my several-years-old Win7 box,
nobody has ever told me about it. Nor does my trackball (also
built by Logitech) have a popup menu button: just left, right,
and the ball.
>
>The point of this is, you may not need to click the mouse, at least
>not to follow a link, depending on how the program you are using
>behaves. Other actions may be possible. There may be software out
>there that can allow you to map, say, a function key to produce a left
>button click.
>
>The product looks like a very nice trackball. But so is my trusty
>Logitech TrackMan Marble, purchsed 10.5 years ago and still going
>strong.
>
>Note: the "popup menu button" is that weird-looking thing that brings
>the same menu as pressing the right button on the mouse. The
>difference being that, when accessed through the keyboard the "hot
>keys" are underlined (or otherwise emphasized), while when accessed
>through the right mouse button, they usually are not.

I'm fairly certain there's nothing like that on my box or my
trackball.
>
>Note to the ultra-PC: I am using "left" and "right" because my reading
>of her description leads me to believe she is using the trackball with
>her right hand and with the left button as "primary".

And you're right^H^H^H^H^Hcorrect.

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

On Friday, April 15, 2022 at 12:19:07 PM UTC-6, jack....@gmail.com wrote:
> Paul S Person wrote:
> >
> > Note to the ultra-PC: I am using "left" and "right" because my reading
> > of her description leads me to believe she is using the trackball with
> > her right hand and with the left button as "primary".

> Oh, what sort of buttons does the trackball on the Ultra PC have?

I believe that a parsing error has taken place. "ultra-PC" in what you
have quoted refers to those individuals who are very politically
correct, specifically in relation to vocabulary related to left-handedness,
it is not the brand name of a computer compatible with the IBM Personal
Computer.

John Savard

In article <376a2868-0b30-4fb8-844c-5d385cb50e92n@googlegroups.com>,
Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>On Friday, April 15, 2022 at 12:19:07 PM UTC-6, jack....@gmail.com wrote:
>> Paul S Person wrote:
>> >
>> > Note to the ultra-PC: I am using "left" and "right" because my reading
>> > of her description leads me to believe she is using the trackball with
>> > her right hand and with the left button as "primary".
>
>> Oh, what sort of buttons does the trackball on the Ultra PC have?
>
>I believe that a parsing error has taken place. "ultra-PC" in what you
>have quoted refers to those individuals who are very politically
>correct, specifically in relation to vocabulary related to left-handedness,
>it is not the brand name of a computer compatible with the IBM Personal
>Computer.

Thanks for clearing that up. It turns out I guessed right, but
you never can tell.

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

On Friday, April 15, 2022 at 10:16:50 PM UTC-6, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:

> Thanks for clearing that up. It turns out I guessed right, but
> you never can tell.

I was worried that I would be criticized for failing to recognize
obvious sarcasm.

But I didn't think you had to guess; Paul S. Person was talking about
the trackball attached to your computer, so you would know if you had
any "Ultra PC" branded components in your setup. (The phrasing definitely
wasn't compatible with a suggestion that you should replace your existing
trackball with the improved Ultra PC trackball, so that possibility didn't
even cross my mind.)

John Savard

On Saturday, 16 April 2022 at 03:04:09 UTC+1, Quadibloc wrote:
> On Friday, April 15, 2022 at 12:19:07 PM UTC-6, jack....@gmail.com wrote:
> > Paul S Person wrote:
> > >
> > > Note to the ultra-PC: I am using "left" and "right" because my reading
> > > of her description leads me to believe she is using the trackball with
> > > her right hand and with the left button as "primary".
>
> > Oh, what sort of buttons does the trackball on the Ultra PC have?
> I believe that a parsing error has taken place. "ultra-PC" in what you
> have quoted refers to those individuals who are very politically
> correct, specifically in relation to vocabulary related to left-handedness,
> it is not the brand name of a computer compatible with the IBM Personal
> Computer.

Well, it /is/, several, but that wasn't your point.

On Saturday, April 16, 2022 at 4:51:08 AM UTC-6, Robert Carnegie wrote:
> On Saturday, 16 April 2022 at 03:04:09 UTC+1, Quadibloc wrote:
> > On Friday, April 15, 2022 at 12:19:07 PM UTC-6, jack....@gmail.com wrote:
> > > Paul S Person wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Note to the ultra-PC: I am using "left" and "right" because my reading
> > > > of her description leads me to believe she is using the trackball with
> > > > her right hand and with the left button as "primary".
> >
> > > Oh, what sort of buttons does the trackball on the Ultra PC have?
> > I believe that a parsing error has taken place. "ultra-PC" in what you
> > have quoted refers to those individuals who are very politically
> > correct, specifically in relation to vocabulary related to left-handedness,
> > it is not the brand name of a computer compatible with the IBM Personal
> > Computer.
> Well, it /is/, several, but that wasn't your point.

A brand of computers called "Ultra PC" may exist without it being false that
"ultra-PC" was not the brand name of a computer in the specific quote from
Paul Person.

So I did not make a false statement there.

John Savard

On Saturday, April 16, 2022 at 6:00:04 AM UTC-4, Quadibloc wrote:
> On Friday, April 15, 2022 at 10:16:50 PM UTC-6, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>
> > Thanks for clearing that up. It turns out I guessed right, but
> > you never can tell.
> I was worried that I would be criticized for failing to recognize
> obvious sarcasm.

I should apologize. My mutant superpower is that people tend to think I know what I'm talking about. I haven't sworn to use my power only for good, but I do try to mitigate it by throwing out things that should make people wonder if I even know what I'm saying; it doesn't always work.

Dorothy, did you mention once having an old, firmly-clicking keys style keyboard? It may not have the newfangled windows key or pop-up menu key. If you do, they are down amongst the Shift, Alt, and Ctrl keys. The windows key has a symbol that looks like the Windows logo (I don't know what I'm talking about, but I guess each one is different enough from Windows' trademark, or Microsoft allows a lot of latitude, having found its path to fortune did not involve being the exclusive hardware manufacturer.) the menu key has a box with a stack of horizontal lines, emulating the menu window with its column of command choices (itself emulating a sheet of paper with meal choices, and so on back to the mists of time). If there aren't two window keys, the one is generally on the left-hand side of the keyboard, if there aren't two menu keys, the one is generally on the right-hand side of the keyboard, in any case to the right of the windows key, emulating its function as the right button on a trackball or mouse. (That "right" being direction, not correctness of any stripe.)

This is, alas, taking the left hand off its keys to do the job of one finger on the right hand, but getting old will probably always be suboptimal, to keep people from doing it all the time.

What this lead me to thinking was to replicate the right-hand side of the keyboard on top of the mouse for people who find it inconvenient to take their hand off the mouse to type (the exact opposite of sensible people who find it inconvenient to take their hand off the keyboard to mouse), we then replicate the left-hand side of the keyboard on a second mouse -we either have to find a need for a second mouse, or just leave it free-rolling. Fortunately, this Paul S person left a possible name for this mythical computer, so I started pointing down that trail.

--
-Jack

On Saturday, April 16, 2022 at 7:27:27 AM UTC-4, Quadibloc wrote:
> On Saturday, April 16, 2022 at 4:51:08 AM UTC-6, Robert Carnegie wrote:
> > On Saturday, 16 April 2022 at 03:04:09 UTC+1, Quadibloc wrote:
> > > On Friday, April 15, 2022 at 12:19:07 PM UTC-6, jack....@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > Paul S Person wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Note to the ultra-PC: I am using "left" and "right" because my reading
> > > > > of her description leads me to believe she is using the trackball with
> > > > > her right hand and with the left button as "primary".
> > >
> > > > Oh, what sort of buttons does the trackball on the Ultra PC have?
> > > I believe that a parsing error has taken place. "ultra-PC" in what you
> > > have quoted refers to those individuals who are very politically
> > > correct, specifically in relation to vocabulary related to left-handedness,
> > > it is not the brand name of a computer compatible with the IBM Personal
> > > Computer.
> > Well, it /is/, several, but that wasn't your point.
> A brand of computers called "Ultra PC" may exist without it being false that
> "ultra-PC" was not the brand name of a computer in the specific quote from
> Paul Person.
>
> So I did not make a false statement there.

It's sorta special pleading, but: https://www.ultrapc.ma/

That's .ma as in Morocco.

Pt

On Fri, 15 Apr 2022 19:04:07 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
<jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:

>On Friday, April 15, 2022 at 12:19:07 PM UTC-6, jack....@gmail.com wrote:
>> Paul S Person wrote:
>> >
>> > Note to the ultra-PC: I am using "left" and "right" because my reading
>> > of her description leads me to believe she is using the trackball with
>> > her right hand and with the left button as "primary".
>
>> Oh, what sort of buttons does the trackball on the Ultra PC have?
>
>I believe that a parsing error has taken place. "ultra-PC" in what you
>have quoted refers to those individuals who are very politically
>correct, specifically in relation to vocabulary related to left-handedness,
>it is not the brand name of a computer compatible with the IBM Personal
>Computer.

One might almost say "excessively politically correct".

Indeed, I wouldn't be surprised to learn that it has been deemed a
Term of Abuse. By the ultra-PC, of course.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

On Fri, 15 Apr 2022 21:32:36 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
Heydt) wrote:

>In article <gs5j5hpeuj6uldn57kkfj7266ud8ditquq@4ax.com>,
>Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>>On Wed, 13 Apr 2022 21:10:40 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
>>Heydt) wrote:
>>
>><snippo>
>>
>>>I've got a trackball already. (I don't have room on my tray for
>>>a mousepad.) But my right thumb is the one that's *supposed* to
>>>depress the left button, and the muscle that would make that
>>>happen was the second casualty of my ALS. (The first was my
>>>legs.) A secondary thumb muscle still works to depress the
>>>button, if I put the thumb exactly on the correct quarter of a
>>>square inch of the one-by-two-inches left button, which means I
>>>have to look at the trackball to find it. I then have to reach
>>>over with my left hand to move the ball *exactly* across the line
>>>I want to copy. This task grows less worth the effort as time
>>>passes.
>>
>>I just did a test in Agent:
>>-- move the mouse cursor over the link
>>-- press the popup menu button
>>-- select "Launch" by pressing the highlighted letter "L"
>>... and the link comes right up!
>
>If I have anything like Agent on my several-years-old Win7 box,
>nobody has ever told me about it. Nor does my trackball (also
>built by Logitech) have a popup menu button: just left, right,
>and the ball.

Agent is a newsreader (which also does email). Since you post here,
you must have "something like it".

Whether it works the same way, of course, remains to be seen. But, if
you are using a trackball to select the link, it must be able to
respond to the trackball, including a right-click popping up the
context-sensitive menu.

>>The point of this is, you may not need to click the mouse, at least
>>not to follow a link, depending on how the program you are using
>>behaves. Other actions may be possible. There may be software out
>>there that can allow you to map, say, a function key to produce a left
>>button click.
>>
>>The product looks like a very nice trackball. But so is my trusty
>>Logitech TrackMan Marble, purchsed 10.5 years ago and still going
>>strong.
>>
>>Note: the "popup menu button" is that weird-looking thing that brings
>>the same menu as pressing the right button on the mouse. The
>>difference being that, when accessed through the keyboard the "hot
>>keys" are underlined (or otherwise emphasized), while when accessed
>>through the right mouse button, they usually are not.
>
>I'm fairly certain there's nothing like that on my box or my
>trackball.

The button is on the keyboard. Well, provided the keyboard is modern
enough. If it isn't, there /might/ be a way to map it to a function
key or multi-key combo (that can be done with one hand, since one is
on the mouse leaving only one for the keyboard, I presume).

Ctl and Shift, after all, are already able to interact with the
trackball. So there is some precedent for this.

>>Note to the ultra-PC: I am using "left" and "right" because my reading
>>of her description leads me to believe she is using the trackball with
>>her right hand and with the left button as "primary".
>
>And you're right^H^H^H^H^Hcorrect.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."