In article <c3abae50-2f14-4283-b1f8-4cd13fc25821n@googlegroups.com>,
Jack Bohn <jack.bohn64@gmail.com> wrote:
>Among the things peterwezeman@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>> To control
>> costs in some classes of yacht racing materials denser that lead were
>> forbidden.
>
>It's been soooo long since I heard about the America's Cup.

(Hal Heydt)
Since America's Cup races are using hydrofoil catamarans these
days, the composition of ballast is rather irrelevant to it.

*I* say...bring back J Class sloops for *real* America's Cup
races. Or, to be really authentic, one-off designs. I don't
think it's really necessary to make the boats get to the race
site by making a transoceanic trip on their own, though, as used
to be in the rules.

In article <b15c1203-b037-485d-8f9b-e820805c8530n@googlegroups.com>,
pete...@gmail.com <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Saturday, October 15, 2022 at 10:10:02 AM UTC-4, jack....@gmail.com wrote:
>> Among the things peterw...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>
>> > To control
>> > costs in some classes of yacht racing materials denser that lead were
>> > forbidden.
>> It's been soooo long since I heard about the America's Cup.
>
>The boats and speeds have changed a lot. Since 2013 they are now all
>hydrofoils flying
>along at 50 knots, about 60 mph. Quite spectacular.
>
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQsXDdGxk3U
>
>For more than 100 years, the US held the cup, and made the rules. One rule was
>that boat had to sail to the race site, Newport RI, on its own hull
>(usually towed).
>This gave US a huge home team advantage, since non US boats had to be sturdy
>enough to cross open ocean.

(Hal Heydt)
And were often somewhat the worse for wear when they arrived.
Perhaps one should mention Sir Thomas Lipton who made his
reputation as a "good sportsman" by challenging for the Cup five
times with 4 different boats, and losing every time. The
reputation helped his business--tea--though.

For those unfamiliar... The origin of that rule was because the
yacht America sailed from the US to Britain in hopes of making
money by winning bets on races involving her. Because she met,
sailed around, and then sailed over the horizon in four hours,
one of the then crack British yachts, the word got around that
she was really fast and no one would bet against her.

In the end she joined a race around the Isle of Wight, starting
two hours late, and beat the entire field of the Royal Yacht
Squadron, winning the trophy for the race. The owners took the
trophy home and invited the British to come over and try to win
it back. The rest, as they say, is history.

On Friday, 14 October 2022 at 21:42:02 UTC+1, The Horny Goat wrote:
> On Wed, 12 Oct 2022 13:28:30 -0500, Lynn McGuire
> <lynnmc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Critical mass is real bad for the guy holding the bucket, just ask the
> >Japanese guy who died a few days later after unloading the breeder
> >reactor in Japan. But the bucket was mostly uranium, not plutonium. I
> >am fairly sure that it did not matter to him.
> >
> Hmmm must not have been the natural 1/140 U-235 / U-238 breakdown then
> since natural uranium is 99.2% U-238 / .8% U-235 and that wouldn't
> kill you other than if a large block of it fell on your.
>
> Concentrated U-235 is MUCH more radioactive and could be harmful
> though usually when they say "enriched uranium" they mean with a 3-5%
> U-235 content.
>
> 90+% of the US nuclear arsenal is however made from plutonium which is
> made from enriched uranium. "Depleted uranium" is natural uranium with
> the U-235 component taken out

Not all of it, I gather.

> and is a favored metal for armor
> piercing shells though one used infrequently today due to its
> environmental effects. (It's said to penetrate 20% better than
> tungsten carbide against tank armor plating)

On 10/14/2022 10:53 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article <43860a5d-6a78-464c-b4e4-8b7868620997n@googlegroups.com>,
> pete...@gmail.com <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Friday, October 14, 2022 at 6:41:56 PM UTC-4, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>> In article <03ijkh14t253b28nm...@4ax.com>,
>>> The Horny Goat <lcr...@home.ca> wrote:
>>>> 90+% of the US nuclear arsenal is however made from plutonium which is
>>>> made from enriched uranium. "Depleted uranium" is natural uranium with
>>>> the U-235 component taken out and is a favored metal for armor
>>>> piercing shells though one used infrequently today due to its
>>>> environmental effects. (It's said to penetrate 20% better than
>>>> tungsten carbide against tank armor plating)
>>> (Hal Heydt)
>>> Depleted Urainum is also pyrotic, which is to say that when you
>>> slam it through a steel plate it ges hot enough to start burning.
>>> That means that you have burning chunks of Uranium--at around
>>> 3000'C, bouncing around inside your tank, tending to cause other
>>> things to start burning...like ammunition. So...when it all gets
>>> done, not much left of the crew or the tank.
>>
>> Not only that, when used as an armor penetrator, the tip wears in
>> such a way that it remains sharp. Add in the pyrophoric property
>> of self ignition (similar to a lighter flint), and it's not something
>> to stand in front of.
>>
>> W, Pu and U all have densities in the 19-20 range. Lead is only 11. I once
>> picked up a piece of depleted Uranium about the size of a small juice can.
>> [Yes, there was safely equipment involved.] it was far, far heavier than I
>> expected. It's sometimes used in applications like counterweights for
>> airplane flaps, or in sailboat keels.
>
> (Hal Heydt)
> Ever watch someone (or do it yourself) pick up a bottle of
> Mercury? Same thing. Feels like it's nailed in place.
>
> At least for liquids, ones expectation--and thus the "set" for
> muscles--is that they have a specific gravity of about one. If
> something in a bottle is markedly different, it feels much
> farther off what you expect than it actually is.

We used to have gallon jugs of mercury for our old mercury flowtronics
systems. Incredibly heavy. I open a four foot wide by one foot deep
instrument cabinet one day and it was full of mercury to the bottom lip,
one inch tall. We had excursion on the steam boiler and caused all the
transmitters to burp. I carefully closed the door and went in search of
the instrument techs.

Lynn

[lots snippeth]

>> (Hal Heydt)
>> Ever watch someone (or do it yourself) pick up a bottle of
>> Mercury? Same thing. Feels like it's nailed in place.
>>
>> At least for liquids, ones expectation--and thus the "set" for
>> muscles--is that they have a specific gravity of about one. If
>> something in a bottle is markedly different, it feels much
>> farther off what you expect than it actually is.

I still remember, from more than a [time frame deleted] ago,
being in high school and reaching for a small bottle of
liquid mercury. Yes, children, once upon a time this was
a standard item in chem class.. Along with magnesium strips
and thermite...

And yeah, I tried lifting it. Nothing happened. It took
me an embarassingly long moment to realize that yes, it
was metal and a LOT heavier than water...

--
_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
dannyb@panix.com
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]

On Saturday, October 15, 2022 at 8:03:48 PM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> On 10/14/2022 10:53 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> > In article <43860a5d-6a78-464c...@googlegroups.com>,
> > pete...@gmail.com <pete...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Friday, October 14, 2022 at 6:41:56 PM UTC-4, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> >>> In article <03ijkh14t253b28nm...@4ax.com>,
> >>> The Horny Goat <lcr...@home.ca> wrote:
> >>>> 90+% of the US nuclear arsenal is however made from plutonium which is
> >>>> made from enriched uranium. "Depleted uranium" is natural uranium with
> >>>> the U-235 component taken out and is a favored metal for armor
> >>>> piercing shells though one used infrequently today due to its
> >>>> environmental effects. (It's said to penetrate 20% better than
> >>>> tungsten carbide against tank armor plating)
> >>> (Hal Heydt)
> >>> Depleted Urainum is also pyrotic, which is to say that when you
> >>> slam it through a steel plate it ges hot enough to start burning.
> >>> That means that you have burning chunks of Uranium--at around
> >>> 3000'C, bouncing around inside your tank, tending to cause other
> >>> things to start burning...like ammunition. So...when it all gets
> >>> done, not much left of the crew or the tank.
> >>
> >> Not only that, when used as an armor penetrator, the tip wears in
> >> such a way that it remains sharp. Add in the pyrophoric property
> >> of self ignition (similar to a lighter flint), and it's not something
> >> to stand in front of.
> >>
> >> W, Pu and U all have densities in the 19-20 range. Lead is only 11. I once
> >> picked up a piece of depleted Uranium about the size of a small juice can.
> >> [Yes, there was safely equipment involved.] it was far, far heavier than I
> >> expected. It's sometimes used in applications like counterweights for
> >> airplane flaps, or in sailboat keels.
> >
> > (Hal Heydt)
> > Ever watch someone (or do it yourself) pick up a bottle of
> > Mercury? Same thing. Feels like it's nailed in place.
> >
> > At least for liquids, ones expectation--and thus the "set" for
> > muscles--is that they have a specific gravity of about one. If
> > something in a bottle is markedly different, it feels much
> > farther off what you expect than it actually is.
> We used to have gallon jugs of mercury for our old mercury flowtronics
> systems. Incredibly heavy. I open a four foot wide by one foot deep
> instrument cabinet one day and it was full of mercury to the bottom lip,
> one inch tall. We had excursion on the steam boiler and caused all the
> transmitters to burp. I carefully closed the door and went in search of
> the instrument techs.
>
That would be something like ninety pounds per jug. Glass jugs?

Peter Wezeman
anti-social Darwinist

On 10/16/2022 7:43 AM, peterwezeman@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Saturday, October 15, 2022 at 8:03:48 PM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>> On 10/14/2022 10:53 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>> In article <43860a5d-6a78-464c...@googlegroups.com>,
>>> pete...@gmail.com <pete...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Friday, October 14, 2022 at 6:41:56 PM UTC-4, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>>>> In article <03ijkh14t253b28nm...@4ax.com>,
>>>>> The Horny Goat <lcr...@home.ca> wrote:
>>>>>> 90+% of the US nuclear arsenal is however made from plutonium which is
>>>>>> made from enriched uranium. "Depleted uranium" is natural uranium with
>>>>>> the U-235 component taken out and is a favored metal for armor
>>>>>> piercing shells though one used infrequently today due to its
>>>>>> environmental effects. (It's said to penetrate 20% better than
>>>>>> tungsten carbide against tank armor plating)
>>>>> (Hal Heydt)
>>>>> Depleted Urainum is also pyrotic, which is to say that when you
>>>>> slam it through a steel plate it ges hot enough to start burning.
>>>>> That means that you have burning chunks of Uranium--at around
>>>>> 3000'C, bouncing around inside your tank, tending to cause other
>>>>> things to start burning...like ammunition. So...when it all gets
>>>>> done, not much left of the crew or the tank.
>>>>
>>>> Not only that, when used as an armor penetrator, the tip wears in
>>>> such a way that it remains sharp. Add in the pyrophoric property
>>>> of self ignition (similar to a lighter flint), and it's not something
>>>> to stand in front of.
>>>>
>>>> W, Pu and U all have densities in the 19-20 range. Lead is only 11. I once
>>>> picked up a piece of depleted Uranium about the size of a small juice can.
>>>> [Yes, there was safely equipment involved.] it was far, far heavier than I
>>>> expected. It's sometimes used in applications like counterweights for
>>>> airplane flaps, or in sailboat keels.
>>>
>>> (Hal Heydt)
>>> Ever watch someone (or do it yourself) pick up a bottle of
>>> Mercury? Same thing. Feels like it's nailed in place.
>>>
>>> At least for liquids, ones expectation--and thus the "set" for
>>> muscles--is that they have a specific gravity of about one. If
>>> something in a bottle is markedly different, it feels much
>>> farther off what you expect than it actually is.
>> We used to have gallon jugs of mercury for our old mercury flowtronics
>> systems. Incredibly heavy. I open a four foot wide by one foot deep
>> instrument cabinet one day and it was full of mercury to the bottom lip,
>> one inch tall. We had excursion on the steam boiler and caused all the
>> transmitters to burp. I carefully closed the door and went in search of
>> the instrument techs.
>>
> That would be something like ninety pounds per jug. Glass jugs?
>
> Peter Wezeman
> anti-social Darwinist

I don't remember. Too many years ago. I left that plant in Feb 1985.

Lynn

On Sunday, October 16, 2022 at 2:34:25 PM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> On 10/16/2022 7:43 AM, peterw...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > On Saturday, October 15, 2022 at 8:03:48 PM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> >> On 10/14/2022 10:53 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> >>> In article <43860a5d-6a78-464c...@googlegroups.com>,
> >>> pete...@gmail.com <pete...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> On Friday, October 14, 2022 at 6:41:56 PM UTC-4, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> >>>>> In article <03ijkh14t253b28nm...@4ax.com>,
> >>>>> The Horny Goat <lcr...@home.ca> wrote:
> >>>>>> 90+% of the US nuclear arsenal is however made from plutonium which is
> >>>>>> made from enriched uranium. "Depleted uranium" is natural uranium with
> >>>>>> the U-235 component taken out and is a favored metal for armor
> >>>>>> piercing shells though one used infrequently today due to its
> >>>>>> environmental effects. (It's said to penetrate 20% better than
> >>>>>> tungsten carbide against tank armor plating)
> >>>>> (Hal Heydt)
> >>>>> Depleted Urainum is also pyrotic, which is to say that when you
> >>>>> slam it through a steel plate it ges hot enough to start burning.
> >>>>> That means that you have burning chunks of Uranium--at around
> >>>>> 3000'C, bouncing around inside your tank, tending to cause other
> >>>>> things to start burning...like ammunition. So...when it all gets
> >>>>> done, not much left of the crew or the tank.
> >>>>
> >>>> Not only that, when used as an armor penetrator, the tip wears in
> >>>> such a way that it remains sharp. Add in the pyrophoric property
> >>>> of self ignition (similar to a lighter flint), and it's not something
> >>>> to stand in front of.
> >>>>
> >>>> W, Pu and U all have densities in the 19-20 range. Lead is only 11. I once
> >>>> picked up a piece of depleted Uranium about the size of a small juice can.
> >>>> [Yes, there was safely equipment involved.] it was far, far heavier than I
> >>>> expected. It's sometimes used in applications like counterweights for
> >>>> airplane flaps, or in sailboat keels.
> >>>
> >>> (Hal Heydt)
> >>> Ever watch someone (or do it yourself) pick up a bottle of
> >>> Mercury? Same thing. Feels like it's nailed in place.
> >>>
> >>> At least for liquids, ones expectation--and thus the "set" for
> >>> muscles--is that they have a specific gravity of about one. If
> >>> something in a bottle is markedly different, it feels much
> >>> farther off what you expect than it actually is.
> >> We used to have gallon jugs of mercury for our old mercury flowtronics
> >> systems. Incredibly heavy. I open a four foot wide by one foot deep
> >> instrument cabinet one day and it was full of mercury to the bottom lip,
> >> one inch tall. We had excursion on the steam boiler and caused all the
> >> transmitters to burp. I carefully closed the door and went in search of
> >> the instrument techs.
> >>
> > That would be something like ninety pounds per jug. Glass jugs?
> >
> > Peter Wezeman
> > anti-social Darwinist
> I don't remember. Too many years ago. I left that plant in Feb 1985.
>
What is or was a mercury flowtronics system? A Google search turned
up nothing that seemed relevant.

Peter Wezeman
anti-social Darwinist

On 10/16/2022 3:28 PM, peterwezeman@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, October 16, 2022 at 2:34:25 PM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>> On 10/16/2022 7:43 AM, peterw...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>> On Saturday, October 15, 2022 at 8:03:48 PM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>>> On 10/14/2022 10:53 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>>>> In article <43860a5d-6a78-464c...@googlegroups.com>,
>>>>> pete...@gmail.com <pete...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On Friday, October 14, 2022 at 6:41:56 PM UTC-4, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>>>>>> In article <03ijkh14t253b28nm...@4ax.com>,
>>>>>>> The Horny Goat <lcr...@home.ca> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 90+% of the US nuclear arsenal is however made from plutonium which is
>>>>>>>> made from enriched uranium. "Depleted uranium" is natural uranium with
>>>>>>>> the U-235 component taken out and is a favored metal for armor
>>>>>>>> piercing shells though one used infrequently today due to its
>>>>>>>> environmental effects. (It's said to penetrate 20% better than
>>>>>>>> tungsten carbide against tank armor plating)
>>>>>>> (Hal Heydt)
>>>>>>> Depleted Urainum is also pyrotic, which is to say that when you
>>>>>>> slam it through a steel plate it ges hot enough to start burning.
>>>>>>> That means that you have burning chunks of Uranium--at around
>>>>>>> 3000'C, bouncing around inside your tank, tending to cause other
>>>>>>> things to start burning...like ammunition. So...when it all gets
>>>>>>> done, not much left of the crew or the tank.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not only that, when used as an armor penetrator, the tip wears in
>>>>>> such a way that it remains sharp. Add in the pyrophoric property
>>>>>> of self ignition (similar to a lighter flint), and it's not something
>>>>>> to stand in front of.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> W, Pu and U all have densities in the 19-20 range. Lead is only 11. I once
>>>>>> picked up a piece of depleted Uranium about the size of a small juice can.
>>>>>> [Yes, there was safely equipment involved.] it was far, far heavier than I
>>>>>> expected. It's sometimes used in applications like counterweights for
>>>>>> airplane flaps, or in sailboat keels.
>>>>>
>>>>> (Hal Heydt)
>>>>> Ever watch someone (or do it yourself) pick up a bottle of
>>>>> Mercury? Same thing. Feels like it's nailed in place.
>>>>>
>>>>> At least for liquids, ones expectation--and thus the "set" for
>>>>> muscles--is that they have a specific gravity of about one. If
>>>>> something in a bottle is markedly different, it feels much
>>>>> farther off what you expect than it actually is.
>>>> We used to have gallon jugs of mercury for our old mercury flowtronics
>>>> systems. Incredibly heavy. I open a four foot wide by one foot deep
>>>> instrument cabinet one day and it was full of mercury to the bottom lip,
>>>> one inch tall. We had excursion on the steam boiler and caused all the
>>>> transmitters to burp. I carefully closed the door and went in search of
>>>> the instrument techs.
>>>>
>>> That would be something like ninety pounds per jug. Glass jugs?
>>>
>>> Peter Wezeman
>>> anti-social Darwinist
>> I don't remember. Too many years ago. I left that plant in Feb 1985.
>>
> What is or was a mercury flowtronics system? A Google search turned
> up nothing that seemed relevant.
>
> Peter Wezeman
> anti-social Darwinist

Good luck. Mercury flowmeters have not been installed since the 1950s.
They used mercury since the pressure at the orifice was 850 psig or
more. In the 1980s, we still had three steam boilers (22, 44, and 80
MW) at our power plant in Colorado City, TX built in the 1950s using the
mercury flow and pressure transmitters. The flow transmitters measured
boiler feedwater flowrate, steam flowrate, and pressure of each.

I think that the system was supplied by Flowtronics IIRC, but it has
been many years since I worked there.

Lynn

On Sunday, October 16, 2022 at 4:20:30 PM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> On 10/16/2022 3:28 PM, peterw...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > On Sunday, October 16, 2022 at 2:34:25 PM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> >> On 10/16/2022 7:43 AM, peterw...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >>> On Saturday, October 15, 2022 at 8:03:48 PM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> >>>> On 10/14/2022 10:53 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> >>>>> In article <43860a5d-6a78-464c...@googlegroups.com>,
> >>>>> pete...@gmail.com <pete...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>> On Friday, October 14, 2022 at 6:41:56 PM UTC-4, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> >>>>>>> In article <03ijkh14t253b28nm...@4ax.com>,
> >>>>>>> The Horny Goat <lcr...@home.ca> wrote:
> >>>>>>>> 90+% of the US nuclear arsenal is however made from plutonium which is
> >>>>>>>> made from enriched uranium. "Depleted uranium" is natural uranium with
> >>>>>>>> the U-235 component taken out and is a favored metal for armor
> >>>>>>>> piercing shells though one used infrequently today due to its
> >>>>>>>> environmental effects. (It's said to penetrate 20% better than
> >>>>>>>> tungsten carbide against tank armor plating)
> >>>>>>> (Hal Heydt)
> >>>>>>> Depleted Urainum is also pyrotic, which is to say that when you
> >>>>>>> slam it through a steel plate it ges hot enough to start burning.
> >>>>>>> That means that you have burning chunks of Uranium--at around
> >>>>>>> 3000'C, bouncing around inside your tank, tending to cause other
> >>>>>>> things to start burning...like ammunition. So...when it all gets
> >>>>>>> done, not much left of the crew or the tank.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Not only that, when used as an armor penetrator, the tip wears in
> >>>>>> such a way that it remains sharp. Add in the pyrophoric property
> >>>>>> of self ignition (similar to a lighter flint), and it's not something
> >>>>>> to stand in front of.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> W, Pu and U all have densities in the 19-20 range. Lead is only 11. I once
> >>>>>> picked up a piece of depleted Uranium about the size of a small juice can.
> >>>>>> [Yes, there was safely equipment involved.] it was far, far heavier than I
> >>>>>> expected. It's sometimes used in applications like counterweights for
> >>>>>> airplane flaps, or in sailboat keels.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> (Hal Heydt)
> >>>>> Ever watch someone (or do it yourself) pick up a bottle of
> >>>>> Mercury? Same thing. Feels like it's nailed in place.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> At least for liquids, ones expectation--and thus the "set" for
> >>>>> muscles--is that they have a specific gravity of about one. If
> >>>>> something in a bottle is markedly different, it feels much
> >>>>> farther off what you expect than it actually is.
> >>>> We used to have gallon jugs of mercury for our old mercury flowtronics
> >>>> systems. Incredibly heavy. I open a four foot wide by one foot deep
> >>>> instrument cabinet one day and it was full of mercury to the bottom lip,
> >>>> one inch tall. We had excursion on the steam boiler and caused all the
> >>>> transmitters to burp. I carefully closed the door and went in search of
> >>>> the instrument techs.
> >>>>
> >>> That would be something like ninety pounds per jug. Glass jugs?
> >>>
> >>> Peter Wezeman
> >>> anti-social Darwinist
> >> I don't remember. Too many years ago. I left that plant in Feb 1985.
> >>
> > What is or was a mercury flowtronics system? A Google search turned
> > up nothing that seemed relevant.
> >
> > Peter Wezeman
> > anti-social Darwinist
> Good luck. Mercury flowmeters have not been installed since the 1950s.
> They used mercury since the pressure at the orifice was 850 psig or
> more. In the 1980s, we still had three steam boilers (22, 44, and 80
> MW) at our power plant in Colorado City, TX built in the 1950s using the
> mercury flow and pressure transmitters. The flow transmitters measured
> boiler feedwater flowrate, steam flowrate, and pressure of each.
>
> I think that the system was supplied by Flowtronics IIRC, but it has
> been many years since I worked there.
>
At the present time there are very strict standards regarding human
exposure to mercury vapor, to the extent that we are supposed to
take old fluorescent tubes and mercury switches to special sites
where the mercury can be recovered and recycled. It does seem
that they were much more casual about mercury exposure at the
power plant you describe, where hundreds of pounds of mercury
could be vented into a work space because of a temperature
fluctuation.

Peter Wezeman
anti-social Darwinist

On Mon, 17 Oct 2022 07:28:52 -0700 (PDT), "peterwezeman@hotmail.com"
<peterwezeman@hotmail.com> wrote:

>On Sunday, October 16, 2022 at 4:20:30 PM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>> On 10/16/2022 3:28 PM, peterw...@hotmail.com wrote:
>> > On Sunday, October 16, 2022 at 2:34:25 PM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>> >> On 10/16/2022 7:43 AM, peterw...@hotmail.com wrote:
>> >>> On Saturday, October 15, 2022 at 8:03:48 PM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>> >>>> On 10/14/2022 10:53 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>> >>>>> In article <43860a5d-6a78-464c...@googlegroups.com>,
>> >>>>> pete...@gmail.com <pete...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>>>> On Friday, October 14, 2022 at 6:41:56 PM UTC-4, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>> >>>>>>> In article <03ijkh14t253b28nm...@4ax.com>,
>> >>>>>>> The Horny Goat <lcr...@home.ca> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>> 90+% of the US nuclear arsenal is however made from plutonium which is
>> >>>>>>>> made from enriched uranium. "Depleted uranium" is natural uranium with
>> >>>>>>>> the U-235 component taken out and is a favored metal for armor
>> >>>>>>>> piercing shells though one used infrequently today due to its
>> >>>>>>>> environmental effects. (It's said to penetrate 20% better than
>> >>>>>>>> tungsten carbide against tank armor plating)
>> >>>>>>> (Hal Heydt)
>> >>>>>>> Depleted Urainum is also pyrotic, which is to say that when you
>> >>>>>>> slam it through a steel plate it ges hot enough to start burning.
>> >>>>>>> That means that you have burning chunks of Uranium--at around
>> >>>>>>> 3000'C, bouncing around inside your tank, tending to cause other
>> >>>>>>> things to start burning...like ammunition. So...when it all gets
>> >>>>>>> done, not much left of the crew or the tank.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Not only that, when used as an armor penetrator, the tip wears in
>> >>>>>> such a way that it remains sharp. Add in the pyrophoric property
>> >>>>>> of self ignition (similar to a lighter flint), and it's not something
>> >>>>>> to stand in front of.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> W, Pu and U all have densities in the 19-20 range. Lead is only 11. I once
>> >>>>>> picked up a piece of depleted Uranium about the size of a small juice can.
>> >>>>>> [Yes, there was safely equipment involved.] it was far, far heavier than I
>> >>>>>> expected. It's sometimes used in applications like counterweights for
>> >>>>>> airplane flaps, or in sailboat keels.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> (Hal Heydt)
>> >>>>> Ever watch someone (or do it yourself) pick up a bottle of
>> >>>>> Mercury? Same thing. Feels like it's nailed in place.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> At least for liquids, ones expectation--and thus the "set" for
>> >>>>> muscles--is that they have a specific gravity of about one. If
>> >>>>> something in a bottle is markedly different, it feels much
>> >>>>> farther off what you expect than it actually is.
>> >>>> We used to have gallon jugs of mercury for our old mercury flowtronics
>> >>>> systems. Incredibly heavy. I open a four foot wide by one foot deep
>> >>>> instrument cabinet one day and it was full of mercury to the bottom lip,
>> >>>> one inch tall. We had excursion on the steam boiler and caused all the
>> >>>> transmitters to burp. I carefully closed the door and went in search of
>> >>>> the instrument techs.
>> >>>>
>> >>> That would be something like ninety pounds per jug. Glass jugs?
>> >>>
>> >>> Peter Wezeman
>> >>> anti-social Darwinist
>> >> I don't remember. Too many years ago. I left that plant in Feb 1985.
>> >>
>> > What is or was a mercury flowtronics system? A Google search turned
>> > up nothing that seemed relevant.
>> >
>> > Peter Wezeman
>> > anti-social Darwinist
>> Good luck. Mercury flowmeters have not been installed since the 1950s.
>> They used mercury since the pressure at the orifice was 850 psig or
>> more. In the 1980s, we still had three steam boilers (22, 44, and 80
>> MW) at our power plant in Colorado City, TX built in the 1950s using the
>> mercury flow and pressure transmitters. The flow transmitters measured
>> boiler feedwater flowrate, steam flowrate, and pressure of each.
>>
>> I think that the system was supplied by Flowtronics IIRC, but it has
>> been many years since I worked there.
>>
>At the present time there are very strict standards regarding human
>exposure to mercury vapor, to the extent that we are supposed to
>take old fluorescent tubes and mercury switches to special sites
>where the mercury can be recovered and recycled. It does seem
>that they were much more casual about mercury exposure at the
>power plant you describe, where hundreds of pounds of mercury
>could be vented into a work space because of a temperature
>fluctuation.

And if you break a CFL, you basically have a HAZMAT site to deal with.

As to the casual attitude of the 60s -- that /is/ strange, considering
the Mad Hatter.
--
"In this connexion, unquestionably the most significant
development was the disintegration, under Christian
influence, of classical conceptions of the family and
of family right."

Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> writes:
>On Mon, 17 Oct 2022 07:28:52 -0700 (PDT), "peterwezeman@hotmail.com"
><peterwezeman@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>>
>>At the present time there are very strict standards regarding human
>>exposure to mercury vapor, to the extent that we are supposed to
>>take old fluorescent tubes and mercury switches to special sites
>>where the mercury can be recovered and recycled. It does seem
>>that they were much more casual about mercury exposure at the
>>power plant you describe, where hundreds of pounds of mercury
>>could be vented into a work space because of a temperature
>>fluctuation.
>
>And if you break a CFL, you basically have a HAZMAT site to deal with.

That is not an accurate characterization:

https://www.epa.gov/mercury/cleaning-broken-cfl

"Don't be alarmed; the steps outlined below are only
precautions that reflect best practices for cleaning up a
broken CFL. Keep in mind that CFLs contain a very small
amount of mercury -- less than 1/100th of the amount
in a mercury thermometer."

Fortunately, it's mainly a problem that we've put behind us
with the advent of LED lighting.

On Monday, October 17, 2022 at 11:52:54 AM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> Paul S Person <pspe...@old.netcom.invalid> writes:
> >On Mon, 17 Oct 2022 07:28:52 -0700 (PDT), "peterw...@hotmail.com"
> ><peterw...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>>
> >>At the present time there are very strict standards regarding human
> >>exposure to mercury vapor, to the extent that we are supposed to
> >>take old fluorescent tubes and mercury switches to special sites
> >>where the mercury can be recovered and recycled. It does seem
> >>that they were much more casual about mercury exposure at the
> >>power plant you describe, where hundreds of pounds of mercury
> >>could be vented into a work space because of a temperature
> >>fluctuation.
> >
> >And if you break a CFL, you basically have a HAZMAT site to deal with.
> That is not an accurate characterization:
>
> https://www.epa.gov/mercury/cleaning-broken-cfl
>
>
> "Don't be alarmed; the steps outlined below are only
> precautions that reflect best practices for cleaning up a
> broken CFL. Keep in mind that CFLs contain a very small
> amount of mercury -- less than 1/100th of the amount
> in a mercury thermometer."
>
> Fortunately, it's mainly a problem that we've put behind us
> with the advent of LED lighting.

I've switched over to all LEDs. The *only* positive aspect of
CFLs (modulo power savings), was that the bulbs in my upstairs
bathroom came on very slowly, not hurting my eyes on a midnight
visit.

pt

On 2022-10-17, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
> Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> writes:
>>On Mon, 17 Oct 2022 07:28:52 -0700 (PDT), "peterwezeman@hotmail.com"
>><peterwezeman@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>
>>>At the present time there are very strict standards regarding human
>>>exposure to mercury vapor, to the extent that we are supposed to
>>>take old fluorescent tubes and mercury switches to special sites
>>>where the mercury can be recovered and recycled. It does seem
>>>that they were much more casual about mercury exposure at the
>>>power plant you describe, where hundreds of pounds of mercury
>>>could be vented into a work space because of a temperature
>>>fluctuation.
>>
>>And if you break a CFL, you basically have a HAZMAT site to deal with.
>
> That is not an accurate characterization:
>
> https://www.epa.gov/mercury/cleaning-broken-cfl
>
>
> "Don't be alarmed; the steps outlined below are only
> precautions that reflect best practices for cleaning up a
> broken CFL. Keep in mind that CFLs contain a very small
> amount of mercury -- less than 1/100th of the amount
> in a mercury thermometer."

Indeed. I knocked over a half-filled case of old 4 ft fluorescent
bulbs, breaking them all. I carefully closed the box and sealed and
bagged the box up and took it to the county hazmat recycling center.
They casually had me open the bags and box and then dumped the broken bulbs
into an open dumpster!

Chris

On 10/17/2022 8:52 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> writes:
>> On Mon, 17 Oct 2022 07:28:52 -0700 (PDT), "peterwezeman@hotmail.com"
>> <peterwezeman@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>
>>> At the present time there are very strict standards regarding human
>>> exposure to mercury vapor, to the extent that we are supposed to
>>> take old fluorescent tubes and mercury switches to special sites
>>> where the mercury can be recovered and recycled. It does seem
>>> that they were much more casual about mercury exposure at the
>>> power plant you describe, where hundreds of pounds of mercury
>>> could be vented into a work space because of a temperature
>>> fluctuation.
>>
>> And if you break a CFL, you basically have a HAZMAT site to deal with.
>
> That is not an accurate characterization:
>
> https://www.epa.gov/mercury/cleaning-broken-cfl
>
>
> "Don't be alarmed; the steps outlined below are only
> precautions that reflect best practices for cleaning up a
> broken CFL. Keep in mind that CFLs contain a very small
> amount of mercury -- less than 1/100th of the amount
> in a mercury thermometer."
>
> Fortunately, it's mainly a problem that we've put behind us
> with the advent of LED lighting.

Or will be behind us when we've physically _replaced_ all the CFLs with
LEDs....

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

pete...@gmail.com <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Monday, October 17, 2022 at 11:52:54 AM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> Paul S Person <pspe...@old.netcom.invalid> writes:
>> >On Mon, 17 Oct 2022 07:28:52 -0700 (PDT), "peterw...@hotmail.com"
>> ><peterw...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >>>
>> >>At the present time there are very strict standards regarding human
>> >>exposure to mercury vapor, to the extent that we are supposed to
>> >>take old fluorescent tubes and mercury switches to special sites
>> >>where the mercury can be recovered and recycled. It does seem
>> >>that they were much more casual about mercury exposure at the
>> >>power plant you describe, where hundreds of pounds of mercury
>> >>could be vented into a work space because of a temperature
>> >>fluctuation.
>> >
>> >And if you break a CFL, you basically have a HAZMAT site to deal with.
>> That is not an accurate characterization:
>>
>> https://www.epa.gov/mercury/cleaning-broken-cfl
>>
>>
>> "Don't be alarmed; the steps outlined below are only
>> precautions that reflect best practices for cleaning up a
>> broken CFL. Keep in mind that CFLs contain a very small
>> amount of mercury -- less than 1/100th of the amount
>> in a mercury thermometer."
>>
>> Fortunately, it's mainly a problem that we've put behind us
>> with the advent of LED lighting.
>
> I've switched over to all LEDs. The *only* positive aspect of
> CFLs (modulo power savings), was that the bulbs in my upstairs
> bathroom came on very slowly, not hurting my eyes on a midnight
> visit.

I have the ceiling lights on Z-Wave dimmers...they can be preconfigured with
fade-on and fade-off times between 0 and 127 seconds or between 1 and 128
minutes (although i've never tested the latter).
My issue is finding LED bulbs that have anything approaching decent dimming
support. The cheap "Amazon Basics" are definitely not in that category. There
are points where they suddenly jump in brightness and others where they
flicker badly.

Robert
--
Robert K. Shull Email: rkshull at rosettacon dot com

On Monday, October 17, 2022 at 11:42:07 AM UTC-4, Paul S Person wrote:
> On Mon, 17 Oct 2022 07:28:52 -0700 (PDT), "peterw...@hotmail.com"
> <peterw...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Sunday, October 16, 2022 at 4:20:30 PM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> >> On 10/16/2022 3:28 PM, peterw...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >> > On Sunday, October 16, 2022 at 2:34:25 PM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> >> >> On 10/16/2022 7:43 AM, peterw...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >> >>> On Saturday, October 15, 2022 at 8:03:48 PM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> >> >>>> On 10/14/2022 10:53 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> >> >>>>> In article <43860a5d-6a78-464c...@googlegroups.com>,
> >> >>>>> pete...@gmail.com <pete...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >>>>>> On Friday, October 14, 2022 at 6:41:56 PM UTC-4, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> >> >>>>>>> In article <03ijkh14t253b28nm...@4ax.com>,
> >> >>>>>>> The Horny Goat <lcr...@home.ca> wrote:
> >> >>>>>>>> 90+% of the US nuclear arsenal is however made from plutonium which is
> >> >>>>>>>> made from enriched uranium. "Depleted uranium" is natural uranium with
> >> >>>>>>>> the U-235 component taken out and is a favored metal for armor
> >> >>>>>>>> piercing shells though one used infrequently today due to its
> >> >>>>>>>> environmental effects. (It's said to penetrate 20% better than
> >> >>>>>>>> tungsten carbide against tank armor plating)
> >> >>>>>>> (Hal Heydt)
> >> >>>>>>> Depleted Urainum is also pyrotic, which is to say that when you
> >> >>>>>>> slam it through a steel plate it ges hot enough to start burning.
> >> >>>>>>> That means that you have burning chunks of Uranium--at around
> >> >>>>>>> 3000'C, bouncing around inside your tank, tending to cause other
> >> >>>>>>> things to start burning...like ammunition. So...when it all gets
> >> >>>>>>> done, not much left of the crew or the tank.
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> Not only that, when used as an armor penetrator, the tip wears in
> >> >>>>>> such a way that it remains sharp. Add in the pyrophoric property
> >> >>>>>> of self ignition (similar to a lighter flint), and it's not something
> >> >>>>>> to stand in front of.
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> W, Pu and U all have densities in the 19-20 range. Lead is only 11. I once
> >> >>>>>> picked up a piece of depleted Uranium about the size of a small juice can.
> >> >>>>>> [Yes, there was safely equipment involved.] it was far, far heavier than I
> >> >>>>>> expected. It's sometimes used in applications like counterweights for
> >> >>>>>> airplane flaps, or in sailboat keels.
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> (Hal Heydt)
> >> >>>>> Ever watch someone (or do it yourself) pick up a bottle of
> >> >>>>> Mercury? Same thing. Feels like it's nailed in place.
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> At least for liquids, ones expectation--and thus the "set" for
> >> >>>>> muscles--is that they have a specific gravity of about one. If
> >> >>>>> something in a bottle is markedly different, it feels much
> >> >>>>> farther off what you expect than it actually is.
> >> >>>> We used to have gallon jugs of mercury for our old mercury flowtronics
> >> >>>> systems. Incredibly heavy. I open a four foot wide by one foot deep
> >> >>>> instrument cabinet one day and it was full of mercury to the bottom lip,
> >> >>>> one inch tall. We had excursion on the steam boiler and caused all the
> >> >>>> transmitters to burp. I carefully closed the door and went in search of
> >> >>>> the instrument techs.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>> That would be something like ninety pounds per jug. Glass jugs?
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Peter Wezeman
> >> >>> anti-social Darwinist
> >> >> I don't remember. Too many years ago. I left that plant in Feb 1985.
> >> >>
> >> > What is or was a mercury flowtronics system? A Google search turned
> >> > up nothing that seemed relevant.
> >> >
> >> > Peter Wezeman
> >> > anti-social Darwinist
> >> Good luck. Mercury flowmeters have not been installed since the 1950s.
> >> They used mercury since the pressure at the orifice was 850 psig or
> >> more. In the 1980s, we still had three steam boilers (22, 44, and 80
> >> MW) at our power plant in Colorado City, TX built in the 1950s using the
> >> mercury flow and pressure transmitters. The flow transmitters measured
> >> boiler feedwater flowrate, steam flowrate, and pressure of each.
> >>
> >> I think that the system was supplied by Flowtronics IIRC, but it has
> >> been many years since I worked there.
> >>
> >At the present time there are very strict standards regarding human
> >exposure to mercury vapor, to the extent that we are supposed to
> >take old fluorescent tubes and mercury switches to special sites
> >where the mercury can be recovered and recycled. It does seem
> >that they were much more casual about mercury exposure at the
> >power plant you describe, where hundreds of pounds of mercury
> >could be vented into a work space because of a temperature
> >fluctuation.
> And if you break a CFL, you basically have a HAZMAT site to deal with.
>
> As to the casual attitude of the 60s -- that /is/ strange, considering
> the Mad Hatter.

In the 60s I used to play with mercury. Finger lickin good!

William Hyde

On Monday, October 17, 2022 at 5:03:25 PM UTC-4, William Hyde wrote:
> On Monday, October 17, 2022 at 11:42:07 AM UTC-4, Paul S Person wrote:
> > On Mon, 17 Oct 2022 07:28:52 -0700 (PDT), "peterw...@hotmail.com"
> > <peterw...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > >On Sunday, October 16, 2022 at 4:20:30 PM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> > >> On 10/16/2022 3:28 PM, peterw...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > >> > On Sunday, October 16, 2022 at 2:34:25 PM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> > >> >> On 10/16/2022 7:43 AM, peterw...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > >> >>> On Saturday, October 15, 2022 at 8:03:48 PM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> > >> >>>> On 10/14/2022 10:53 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> > >> >>>>> In article <43860a5d-6a78-464c...@googlegroups.com>,
> > >> >>>>> pete...@gmail.com <pete...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> >>>>>> On Friday, October 14, 2022 at 6:41:56 PM UTC-4, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> > >> >>>>>>> In article <03ijkh14t253b28nm...@4ax.com>,
> > >> >>>>>>> The Horny Goat <lcr...@home.ca> wrote:
> > >> >>>>>>>> 90+% of the US nuclear arsenal is however made from plutonium which is
> > >> >>>>>>>> made from enriched uranium. "Depleted uranium" is natural uranium with
> > >> >>>>>>>> the U-235 component taken out and is a favored metal for armor
> > >> >>>>>>>> piercing shells though one used infrequently today due to its
> > >> >>>>>>>> environmental effects. (It's said to penetrate 20% better than
> > >> >>>>>>>> tungsten carbide against tank armor plating)
> > >> >>>>>>> (Hal Heydt)
> > >> >>>>>>> Depleted Urainum is also pyrotic, which is to say that when you
> > >> >>>>>>> slam it through a steel plate it ges hot enough to start burning.
> > >> >>>>>>> That means that you have burning chunks of Uranium--at around
> > >> >>>>>>> 3000'C, bouncing around inside your tank, tending to cause other
> > >> >>>>>>> things to start burning...like ammunition. So...when it all gets
> > >> >>>>>>> done, not much left of the crew or the tank.
> > >> >>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>> Not only that, when used as an armor penetrator, the tip wears in
> > >> >>>>>> such a way that it remains sharp. Add in the pyrophoric property
> > >> >>>>>> of self ignition (similar to a lighter flint), and it's not something
> > >> >>>>>> to stand in front of.
> > >> >>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>> W, Pu and U all have densities in the 19-20 range. Lead is only 11. I once
> > >> >>>>>> picked up a piece of depleted Uranium about the size of a small juice can.
> > >> >>>>>> [Yes, there was safely equipment involved.] it was far, far heavier than I
> > >> >>>>>> expected. It's sometimes used in applications like counterweights for
> > >> >>>>>> airplane flaps, or in sailboat keels.
> > >> >>>>>
> > >> >>>>> (Hal Heydt)
> > >> >>>>> Ever watch someone (or do it yourself) pick up a bottle of
> > >> >>>>> Mercury? Same thing. Feels like it's nailed in place.
> > >> >>>>>
> > >> >>>>> At least for liquids, ones expectation--and thus the "set" for
> > >> >>>>> muscles--is that they have a specific gravity of about one. If
> > >> >>>>> something in a bottle is markedly different, it feels much
> > >> >>>>> farther off what you expect than it actually is.
> > >> >>>> We used to have gallon jugs of mercury for our old mercury flowtronics
> > >> >>>> systems. Incredibly heavy. I open a four foot wide by one foot deep
> > >> >>>> instrument cabinet one day and it was full of mercury to the bottom lip,
> > >> >>>> one inch tall. We had excursion on the steam boiler and caused all the
> > >> >>>> transmitters to burp. I carefully closed the door and went in search of
> > >> >>>> the instrument techs.
> > >> >>>>
> > >> >>> That would be something like ninety pounds per jug. Glass jugs?
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> Peter Wezeman
> > >> >>> anti-social Darwinist
> > >> >> I don't remember. Too many years ago. I left that plant in Feb 1985.
> > >> >>
> > >> > What is or was a mercury flowtronics system? A Google search turned
> > >> > up nothing that seemed relevant.
> > >> >
> > >> > Peter Wezeman
> > >> > anti-social Darwinist
> > >> Good luck. Mercury flowmeters have not been installed since the 1950s.
> > >> They used mercury since the pressure at the orifice was 850 psig or
> > >> more. In the 1980s, we still had three steam boilers (22, 44, and 80
> > >> MW) at our power plant in Colorado City, TX built in the 1950s using the
> > >> mercury flow and pressure transmitters. The flow transmitters measured
> > >> boiler feedwater flowrate, steam flowrate, and pressure of each.
> > >>
> > >> I think that the system was supplied by Flowtronics IIRC, but it has
> > >> been many years since I worked there.
> > >>
> > >At the present time there are very strict standards regarding human
> > >exposure to mercury vapor, to the extent that we are supposed to
> > >take old fluorescent tubes and mercury switches to special sites
> > >where the mercury can be recovered and recycled. It does seem
> > >that they were much more casual about mercury exposure at the
> > >power plant you describe, where hundreds of pounds of mercury
> > >could be vented into a work space because of a temperature
> > >fluctuation.
> > And if you break a CFL, you basically have a HAZMAT site to deal with.
> >
> > As to the casual attitude of the 60s -- that /is/ strange, considering
> > the Mad Hatter.
> In the 60s I used to play with mercury. Finger lickin good!

One of the lost wonders of childhood.

Poke your finger in, and it pushes back unnaturally and sucks the heat
out of you. Pull it back out and your fingerprint remains on the surface.

Pour a little into your palm, and it is far heavier than any liquid has a right
to be (13.6x as dense as water). Again, it sucks the heat out your hand,
and seems to be almost sentient in its efforts to escape your fingers and
fall down.

This is safe, if done in a fume closet, and you wash your hands afterwards.

pt

On Monday, October 17, 2022 at 4:03:06 PM UTC-4, rksh...@rosettacondot.com wrote:
> pete...@gmail.com <pete...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Monday, October 17, 2022 at 11:52:54 AM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> >> Paul S Person <pspe...@old.netcom.invalid> writes:
> >> >On Mon, 17 Oct 2022 07:28:52 -0700 (PDT), "peterw...@hotmail.com"
> >> ><peterw...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >>>
> >> >>At the present time there are very strict standards regarding human
> >> >>exposure to mercury vapor, to the extent that we are supposed to
> >> >>take old fluorescent tubes and mercury switches to special sites
> >> >>where the mercury can be recovered and recycled. It does seem
> >> >>that they were much more casual about mercury exposure at the
> >> >>power plant you describe, where hundreds of pounds of mercury
> >> >>could be vented into a work space because of a temperature
> >> >>fluctuation.
> >> >
> >> >And if you break a CFL, you basically have a HAZMAT site to deal with.
> >> That is not an accurate characterization:
> >>
> >> https://www.epa.gov/mercury/cleaning-broken-cfl
> >>
> >>
> >> "Don't be alarmed; the steps outlined below are only
> >> precautions that reflect best practices for cleaning up a
> >> broken CFL. Keep in mind that CFLs contain a very small
> >> amount of mercury -- less than 1/100th of the amount
> >> in a mercury thermometer."
> >>
> >> Fortunately, it's mainly a problem that we've put behind us
> >> with the advent of LED lighting.
> >
> > I've switched over to all LEDs. The *only* positive aspect of
> > CFLs (modulo power savings), was that the bulbs in my upstairs
> > bathroom came on very slowly, not hurting my eyes on a midnight
> > visit.
> I have the ceiling lights on Z-Wave dimmers...they can be preconfigured with
> fade-on and fade-off times between 0 and 127 seconds or between 1 and 128
> minutes (although i've never tested the latter).
> My issue is finding LED bulbs that have anything approaching decent dimming
> support. The cheap "Amazon Basics" are definitely not in that category. There
> are points where they suddenly jump in brightness and others where they
> flicker badly.

I now have two lights - the ceiling light is only two (2) watts, and is an effective
nightlight, while the main light is over the sink. Still a bit of a blast in the eyes when
the main light comes on, but if its the middle of the night, I don't use it. A 2W LED
is enough to operate by, if you don't need to read.

pt

pete...@gmail.com <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Monday, October 17, 2022 at 4:03:06 PM UTC-4, rksh...@rosettacondot.com wrote:
>> pete...@gmail.com <pete...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > On Monday, October 17, 2022 at 11:52:54 AM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> >> Paul S Person <pspe...@old.netcom.invalid> writes:
>> >> >On Mon, 17 Oct 2022 07:28:52 -0700 (PDT), "peterw...@hotmail.com"
>> >> ><peterw...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>At the present time there are very strict standards regarding human
>> >> >>exposure to mercury vapor, to the extent that we are supposed to
>> >> >>take old fluorescent tubes and mercury switches to special sites
>> >> >>where the mercury can be recovered and recycled. It does seem
>> >> >>that they were much more casual about mercury exposure at the
>> >> >>power plant you describe, where hundreds of pounds of mercury
>> >> >>could be vented into a work space because of a temperature
>> >> >>fluctuation.
>> >> >
>> >> >And if you break a CFL, you basically have a HAZMAT site to deal with.
>> >> That is not an accurate characterization:
>> >>
>> >> https://www.epa.gov/mercury/cleaning-broken-cfl
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> "Don't be alarmed; the steps outlined below are only
>> >> precautions that reflect best practices for cleaning up a
>> >> broken CFL. Keep in mind that CFLs contain a very small
>> >> amount of mercury -- less than 1/100th of the amount
>> >> in a mercury thermometer."
>> >>
>> >> Fortunately, it's mainly a problem that we've put behind us
>> >> with the advent of LED lighting.
>> >
>> > I've switched over to all LEDs. The *only* positive aspect of
>> > CFLs (modulo power savings), was that the bulbs in my upstairs
>> > bathroom came on very slowly, not hurting my eyes on a midnight
>> > visit.
>> I have the ceiling lights on Z-Wave dimmers...they can be preconfigured with
>> fade-on and fade-off times between 0 and 127 seconds or between 1 and 128
>> minutes (although i've never tested the latter).
>> My issue is finding LED bulbs that have anything approaching decent dimming
>> support. The cheap "Amazon Basics" are definitely not in that category. There
>> are points where they suddenly jump in brightness and others where they
>> flicker badly.
>
> I now have two lights - the ceiling light is only two (2) watts, and is an effective
> nightlight, while the main light is over the sink. Still a bit of a blast in the eyes when
> the main light comes on, but if its the middle of the night, I don't use it. A 2W LED
> is enough to operate by, if you don't need to read.

I like the ability to have lots of light when and where I want it...the
dimmers are essential when I don't. The den area is 28x21 feet and has,
in various forms, 15 12W LEDs (2700K out of deference to my wife). When the
room is dark the motion sensors turn on three of them at 10% with a 3 second
fade in. There are 9W color LEDs in the kitchen and entryway that are set to
red and 10% brightness at night.

Robert
--
Robert K. Shull Email: rkshull at rosettacon dot com

On 10/10/22 10:41, pete...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, October 10, 2022 at 10:00:01 AM UTC-4, Chris Buckley wrote:
>> On 2022-10-10, Dimensional Traveler <dtr...@sonic.net> wrote:
>>> On 10/9/2022 5:50 PM, pete...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> On Sunday, October 9, 2022 at 4:15:02 PM UTC-4, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>>>> On 10/9/2022 2:54 AM, Charles Packer wrote:
>>>>>> On Sat, 08 Oct 2022 15:46:57 -0500, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks for the review. We do have a tremendous visionary in today's
>>>>>>> society, Elon Musk. He has managed to build on the knowledge of others
>>>>>>> and is creating new knowledge of his own.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And as the saying goes, "there's no such thing as bad publicity" for
>>>>>> the campaign to get people to switch to electric cars...
>>>>> Uh, not so fast there. “Electric vehicles are exploding from water
>>>>> damage after Hurricane Ian, Florida official warns”
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.fox5ny.com/news/electric-vehicles-are-exploding-from-water-damage-after-hurricane-ian
>>>>
>>>> Lets see.
>>>>
>>>> It's Fox "News".
>>>> No numbers given.
>>>> Aside from a single video clip, nothing confirmable or checkable.
>>>> Opinions from CEI, which is about as regressive an advocate as possible.
>>>> Pro tobacco
>>>> Pro coal
>>>> Climate denialism
>>>> Opposing fuel efficiency.
>>>> Supporting big pharma
>>>> Funded Koch Bros and Tabacco industry, among others.
>>>>
>>>> https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Competitive_Enterprise_Institute
>>>>
>>>> You call this article "fair and balanced"?
>>>>
>>> Yes, _Lynn_ does.
>> Hmmm... Who exactly is showing their bias and prejudice here?
>>
>> https://nbc-2.com/news/environment/2022/10/08/electric-vehicle-fires-spark-in-southwest-florida-following-hurricane-ian/
>>
>> According to North Collier Fire Rescue District, there have been
>> 10 EV fires in all of Collier County since Hurricane Ian.
>> “If you have one of these vehicles, and it was submerged in
>> saltwater storm surge, be sure to move it out of your garage and
>> call the manufacturer for the next steps,” the Cape Coral Fire
>> Department shared on their Facebook page.
>>
>> I fail to see how this is not a problem that people in Florida need
>> to be aware of.
>
> That's a much better article, and yes, it sounds like there's a problem.
>
> Lynn's article was much more of a hit piece, and going to CEI, and
> only CEI, for commentary was a very red flag.
>
> It's still a bit over the top - the affected cars aren't 'exploding'. They're
> catching fire, which is bad enough, and it certainly sounds like you
> don't want to keep an EV that's been flooded inside a garage.
>
> To get geeky, Tesla is moving to a 'Structural battery pack', in which the
> batter is hermetically sealed (and essentially unmaintainable once sealed).
> This will probably reduce the chance of water incursion
>
> In normal use, Teslas catch fire at about 1/10th the rate per mile
> driven as ICE cars.
>
> pt

I am happy to say that I never had to fight a fire involving Lithium/Ion
batteries or involving titanium. We did have some training on EV fires,
but not nearly enough, and that was for me, 7 years ago. Things have
evolved since then. I do know that our plan was basically "surround and
drown" and protect the exposures because we sure as hell weren't going
to put it out. The chance of a titanium fire was not nil since Lockheed
had/has the Rocket Ranch up above us in Bonnydoon. All sorts of exotic
things come through town.

Since others mentioned magnesium, I did fight a couple of those types of
fires. It is occasionally found in engines, and some power tools. It
will definitely get your attention when you hit it with a hose stream.
Also very hard to put out with just water. It is generally easier to
just let it burn.

--
Dave Scruggs
Captain, Boulder Creek Fire (Retired)
Sr. Software Engineer - Stellar Solutions (Definitely Retired)

In article <tikmij$8kle$1@memoryalpha.rosettacon.com>,
<rkshullat@rosettacondot.com> wrote:
>pete...@gmail.com <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Monday, October 17, 2022 at 4:03:06 PM UTC-4,
>rksh...@rosettacondot.com wrote:
>>> pete...@gmail.com <pete...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > On Monday, October 17, 2022 at 11:52:54 AM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>> >> Paul S Person <pspe...@old.netcom.invalid> writes:
>>> >> >On Mon, 17 Oct 2022 07:28:52 -0700 (PDT), "peterw...@hotmail.com"
>>> >> ><peterw...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>At the present time there are very strict standards regarding human
>>> >> >>exposure to mercury vapor, to the extent that we are supposed to
>>> >> >>take old fluorescent tubes and mercury switches to special sites
>>> >> >>where the mercury can be recovered and recycled. It does seem
>>> >> >>that they were much more casual about mercury exposure at the
>>> >> >>power plant you describe, where hundreds of pounds of mercury
>>> >> >>could be vented into a work space because of a temperature
>>> >> >>fluctuation.
>>> >> >
>>> >> >And if you break a CFL, you basically have a HAZMAT site to deal with.
>>> >> That is not an accurate characterization:
>>> >>
>>> >> https://www.epa.gov/mercury/cleaning-broken-cfl
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> "Don't be alarmed; the steps outlined below are only
>>> >> precautions that reflect best practices for cleaning up a
>>> >> broken CFL. Keep in mind that CFLs contain a very small
>>> >> amount of mercury -- less than 1/100th of the amount
>>> >> in a mercury thermometer."
>>> >>
>>> >> Fortunately, it's mainly a problem that we've put behind us
>>> >> with the advent of LED lighting.
>>> >
>>> > I've switched over to all LEDs. The *only* positive aspect of
>>> > CFLs (modulo power savings), was that the bulbs in my upstairs
>>> > bathroom came on very slowly, not hurting my eyes on a midnight
>>> > visit.
>>> I have the ceiling lights on Z-Wave dimmers...they can be preconfigured with
>>> fade-on and fade-off times between 0 and 127 seconds or between 1 and 128
>>> minutes (although i've never tested the latter).
>>> My issue is finding LED bulbs that have anything approaching decent dimming
>>> support. The cheap "Amazon Basics" are definitely not in that
>category. There
>>> are points where they suddenly jump in brightness and others where they
>>> flicker badly.
>>
>> I now have two lights - the ceiling light is only two (2) watts, and
>is an effective
>> nightlight, while the main light is over the sink. Still a bit of a
>blast in the eyes when
>> the main light comes on, but if its the middle of the night, I don't
>use it. A 2W LED
>> is enough to operate by, if you don't need to read.
>
>I like the ability to have lots of light when and where I want it...the
>dimmers are essential when I don't. The den area is 28x21 feet and has,
>in various forms, 15 12W LEDs (2700K out of deference to my wife). When the
>room is dark the motion sensors turn on three of them at 10% with a 3 second
>fade in. There are 9W color LEDs in the kitchen and entryway that are set to
>red and 10% brightness at night.

(Hal Heydt)
The only "smart" illumination I have is my "alarm clock". Since
it's actually a Raspberry Pi Pi2Bv1.1 with a 7" RPF display, I
set the backlight using commands in crontab. On 0-255 scale, it
is set to 200 during the day and 14 at night, with a transistion
at each end at 50. You can read the time in a dark room without
it being enough light to keep you awake. The daytime setting is
visible no matter what ambient light exists. When the backlight
settings change varies by day.

I dare that Dorothy has described it from time to time.

In article <tikqvs$17bf$1@gioia.aioe.org>, BCFD36 <bcfd36@cruzio.com> wrote:
>On 10/10/22 10:41, pete...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Monday, October 10, 2022 at 10:00:01 AM UTC-4, Chris Buckley wrote:
>>> On 2022-10-10, Dimensional Traveler <dtr...@sonic.net> wrote:
>>>> On 10/9/2022 5:50 PM, pete...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>> On Sunday, October 9, 2022 at 4:15:02 PM UTC-4, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>>>>> On 10/9/2022 2:54 AM, Charles Packer wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sat, 08 Oct 2022 15:46:57 -0500, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks for the review. We do have a tremendous visionary in today's
>>>>>>>> society, Elon Musk. He has managed to build on the knowledge of others
>>>>>>>> and is creating new knowledge of his own.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And as the saying goes, "there's no such thing as bad publicity" for
>>>>>>> the campaign to get people to switch to electric cars...
>>>>>> Uh, not so fast there. “Electric vehicles are exploding from water
>>>>>> damage after Hurricane Ian, Florida official warns”
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>https://www.fox5ny.com/news/electric-vehicles-are-exploding-from-water-damage-after-hurricane-ian
>>>>>
>>>>> Lets see.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's Fox "News".
>>>>> No numbers given.
>>>>> Aside from a single video clip, nothing confirmable or checkable.
>>>>> Opinions from CEI, which is about as regressive an advocate as possible.
>>>>> Pro tobacco
>>>>> Pro coal
>>>>> Climate denialism
>>>>> Opposing fuel efficiency.
>>>>> Supporting big pharma
>>>>> Funded Koch Bros and Tabacco industry, among others.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Competitive_Enterprise_Institute
>>>>>
>>>>> You call this article "fair and balanced"?
>>>>>
>>>> Yes, _Lynn_ does.
>>> Hmmm... Who exactly is showing their bias and prejudice here?
>>>
>>>
>https://nbc-2.com/news/environment/2022/10/08/electric-vehicle-fires-spark-in-southwest-florida-following-hurricane-ian/
>>>
>>> According to North Collier Fire Rescue District, there have been
>>> 10 EV fires in all of Collier County since Hurricane Ian.
>>> “If you have one of these vehicles, and it was submerged in
>>> saltwater storm surge, be sure to move it out of your garage and
>>> call the manufacturer for the next steps,” the Cape Coral Fire
>>> Department shared on their Facebook page.
>>>
>>> I fail to see how this is not a problem that people in Florida need
>>> to be aware of.
>>
>> That's a much better article, and yes, it sounds like there's a problem.
>>
>> Lynn's article was much more of a hit piece, and going to CEI, and
>> only CEI, for commentary was a very red flag.
>>
>> It's still a bit over the top - the affected cars aren't 'exploding'. They're
>> catching fire, which is bad enough, and it certainly sounds like you
>> don't want to keep an EV that's been flooded inside a garage.
>>
>> To get geeky, Tesla is moving to a 'Structural battery pack', in which the
>> batter is hermetically sealed (and essentially unmaintainable once sealed).
>> This will probably reduce the chance of water incursion
>>
>> In normal use, Teslas catch fire at about 1/10th the rate per mile
>> driven as ICE cars.
>>
>> pt
>
>I am happy to say that I never had to fight a fire involving Lithium/Ion
>batteries or involving titanium. We did have some training on EV fires,
>but not nearly enough, and that was for me, 7 years ago. Things have
>evolved since then. I do know that our plan was basically "surround and
>drown" and protect the exposures because we sure as hell weren't going
>to put it out. The chance of a titanium fire was not nil since Lockheed
>had/has the Rocket Ranch up above us in Bonnydoon. All sorts of exotic
>things come through town.
>
>Since others mentioned magnesium, I did fight a couple of those types of
>fires. It is occasionally found in engines, and some power tools. It
>will definitely get your attention when you hit it with a hose stream.
>Also very hard to put out with just water. It is generally easier to
>just let it burn.

(Hal Heydt)
Did you also train on how to put out an oil fire with water?

On Monday, 17 October 2022 at 19:04:50 UTC+1, Chris Buckley wrote:
> On 2022-10-17, Scott Lurndal <sc...@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
> > Paul S Person <pspe...@old.netcom.invalid> writes:
> >>On Mon, 17 Oct 2022 07:28:52 -0700 (PDT), "peterw...@hotmail.com"
> >><peterw...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>>
> >>>At the present time there are very strict standards regarding human
> >>>exposure to mercury vapor, to the extent that we are supposed to
> >>>take old fluorescent tubes and mercury switches to special sites
> >>>where the mercury can be recovered and recycled. It does seem
> >>>that they were much more casual about mercury exposure at the
> >>>power plant you describe, where hundreds of pounds of mercury
> >>>could be vented into a work space because of a temperature
> >>>fluctuation.
> >>
> >>And if you break a CFL, you basically have a HAZMAT site to deal with.
> >
> > That is not an accurate characterization:
> >
> > https://www.epa.gov/mercury/cleaning-broken-cfl
> >
> >
> > "Don't be alarmed; the steps outlined below are only
> > precautions that reflect best practices for cleaning up a
> > broken CFL. Keep in mind that CFLs contain a very small
> > amount of mercury -- less than 1/100th of the amount
> > in a mercury thermometer."
> Indeed. I knocked over a half-filled case of old 4 ft fluorescent
> bulbs, breaking them all. I carefully closed the box and sealed and
> bagged the box up and took it to the county hazmat recycling center.
> They casually had me open the bags and box and then dumped the broken bulbs
> into an open dumpster!

Well, I suppose the mercury vapour by then was spread
through your house, and in your lungs. Not in the
broken tubes. It's the release in an enclosed space
that's risky. And then they're mainly anxious about
mercury if you're pregnant.

On 18/10/22 13:11, BCFD36 wrote:
snip
>
> Since others mentioned magnesium, I did fight a couple of those types of
> fires. It is occasionally found in engines,

1950's 60's Volkswagens crankcases were made of magnesium and at the end
of their life were dumped or given away. Filed down and mixed with
potassium permanganate, (available for purchase from a Chemist, they
used to sell chemicals, in small quantities to suit a schoolboy's
budget), compressed into a spent bullet shell or shotgun cartridge with
model aeroplane fuse would destroy a letterbox but not begin a fire.
One disadvantage of free range kids.

and some power tools. It
> will definitely get your attention when you hit it with a hose stream.
> Also very hard to put out with just water. It is generally easier to
> just let it burn.
>