On 12/8/2022 10:55 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article <suipohtuhgss9ttkksqmhcve9dt0iigtsg@4ax.com>,
> Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>> On Sat, 3 Dec 2022 20:42:16 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
>> wrote:
>>
>>> In article <i8r9oh5313imsoa485uf7q87gp0ajarc14@4ax.com>,
>>> Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>>>> n Sun, 27 Nov 2022 21:35:09 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In article <tlhr3e$3nihq$2@newsreader4.netcologne.de>,
>>>>> Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> wrote:
>>>>>> An iPad has 3GB RAM these days, it is astonishing that serious
>>>>>> business work can be done in a 2GB address space. But I suspect
>>>>>> that many applications come from earlier times, when 2GB was
>>>>>> luxury undreamt of.
>>>>>
>>>>> (Hal Heydt)
>>>>> Raspberry Pi 4 Model B comes with up to 8GB. I run the DunDraCon
>>>>> con reg on a pair (replicated database) of 4GB models. I used to
>>>>> run it on 1GB SBCs. The shift was because the Pi4B finally got
>>>>> fast enough I/O to suit me. Con reg kind of rattles around loose
>>>>> with that much RAM. I suspect that MariaDB just sucks the entire
>>>>> database into memory.
>>>>
>>>> My HP Envy has 12GB (IIRC, the HP Pavilion has 8GB).
>>>
>>> (Hal Heydt)
>>> Ah...but do either of those machines sell for $55? (Ganted,
>>> that's without PSU, keyboard, mouse/tracball, mass storage
>>> device, cables, or monitor. But with a KVM switch, some of that
>>> can be shared. Since I'm using 120GB SSDs for mass storage, the
>>> *total* outlay for each Pi4B-4 is right about $100 since I
>>> already had some of the required devices on hand.)
>>
>> Of course not.
>>
>> Even though I bought a desktop version [1] through Office Depot at a
>> discount. (This had two video outputs, DVI and VGA, rather than one
>> HDMI. As it happened, my existing monitors were both VGA, but one of
>> them had a DVI port and even included a DVI cable. OTOH, I had no
>> choice between wired and wireless mouse/keyboard; I got wireless and
>> so kept the existing trackball/keyboard.)
>>
>> [1] It has been a while since I checked but, at least at one time, a
>> /portable/ version of the HP Envy existed -- at a much higher price
>> than the HP Pavilion I eventually bought or the desktop HP Envy.
>
> (Hal Heydt)
> DVI-D is signal compatable with HDMI. All you need is--a quite
> inexpensive--HDMI to DVI adapter. Or you can get HDMI to DVI
> cables. I've got a good sized collection of monitors that all
> have at least DVI input. Last batch of adapters I got were less
> than $2 each.
>
> VGA is a whole 'nother animal. Conversion requires an active
> device and most of the cheap devices to do that aren't very
> good. Plus converters are one way only. You get *either* HDMI to
> VGA *or* VGA to HDMI.
>
> The other headache that's coming along is DisplyPort (DP). Like
> VGA conversion, any given device is either DP to HDMI or HDMI to
> DP. DP to HDMI are very common. To find an HDMI to DP, you've
> got to sift through a lot of entries. And, again, there are
> quality issues as well as having to be an active device.

I have already been fighting the DisplayPort battle with my new PCs with
MSI motherboards and LG monitors. I bought about five of the cables
plus converters.

Lynn

On Fri, 9 Dec 2022 04:55:53 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
wrote:

>In article <suipohtuhgss9ttkksqmhcve9dt0iigtsg@4ax.com>,
>Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>>On Sat, 3 Dec 2022 20:42:16 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
>>wrote:
>>
>>>In article <i8r9oh5313imsoa485uf7q87gp0ajarc14@4ax.com>,
>>>Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>>>>n Sun, 27 Nov 2022 21:35:09 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>In article <tlhr3e$3nihq$2@newsreader4.netcologne.de>,
>>>>>Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> wrote:
>>>>>>An iPad has 3GB RAM these days, it is astonishing that serious
>>>>>>business work can be done in a 2GB address space. But I suspect
>>>>>>that many applications come from earlier times, when 2GB was
>>>>>>luxury undreamt of.
>>>>>
>>>>>(Hal Heydt)
>>>>>Raspberry Pi 4 Model B comes with up to 8GB. I run the DunDraCon
>>>>>con reg on a pair (replicated database) of 4GB models. I used to
>>>>>run it on 1GB SBCs. The shift was because the Pi4B finally got
>>>>>fast enough I/O to suit me. Con reg kind of rattles around loose
>>>>>with that much RAM. I suspect that MariaDB just sucks the entire
>>>>>database into memory.
>>>>
>>>>My HP Envy has 12GB (IIRC, the HP Pavilion has 8GB).
>>>
>>>(Hal Heydt)
>>>Ah...but do either of those machines sell for $55? (Ganted,
>>>that's without PSU, keyboard, mouse/tracball, mass storage
>>>device, cables, or monitor. But with a KVM switch, some of that
>>>can be shared. Since I'm using 120GB SSDs for mass storage, the
>>>*total* outlay for each Pi4B-4 is right about $100 since I
>>>already had some of the required devices on hand.)
>>
>>Of course not.
>>
>>Even though I bought a desktop version [1] through Office Depot at a
>>discount. (This had two video outputs, DVI and VGA, rather than one
>>HDMI. As it happened, my existing monitors were both VGA, but one of
>>them had a DVI port and even included a DVI cable. OTOH, I had no
>>choice between wired and wireless mouse/keyboard; I got wireless and
>>so kept the existing trackball/keyboard.)
>>
>>[1] It has been a while since I checked but, at least at one time, a
>>/portable/ version of the HP Envy existed -- at a much higher price
>>than the HP Pavilion I eventually bought or the desktop HP Envy.
>
>(Hal Heydt)
>DVI-D is signal compatable with HDMI. All you need is--a quite
>inexpensive--HDMI to DVI adapter. Or you can get HDMI to DVI
>cables. I've got a good sized collection of monitors that all
>have at least DVI input. Last batch of adapters I got were less
>than $2 each.

I'm sorry to hear that; the impression I had was that, at least with a
computer, the DVI plug would work in the HDMI socket.

>VGA is a whole 'nother animal. Conversion requires an active
>device and most of the cheap devices to do that aren't very
>good. Plus converters are one way only. You get *either* HDMI to
>VGA *or* VGA to HDMI.

The one I purchased back in 2016
[https://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-HDMI-VGA-Adapter-1920x1080/dp/B00BUKO4WY?psc=1&pd_rd_w=4NiFO&content-id=amzn1.sym.9b6c7c5b-711f-47e9-8510-2ca3ff59483f&pf_rd_p=9b6c7c5b-711f-47e9-8510-2ca3ff59483f&pf_rd_r=ZZ6PVN2GGX6RT0M0QJAB&pd_rd_wg=HBXvO&pd_rd_r=2db6983d-164b-40ee-811e-5c670e83b40d&ref_=sspa_dk_rhf_yoy_pt_sub_3&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEzUFJZOTNNMTJIUzFaJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNTEwMzE4TVVHNVFJU1JGR0lYJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTAyMDU0NDIyQURQUk1OWEZMRUZKJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfcmhmX3lveSZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=]
is powered by the HDMI input, no dongle required. For non-HD
programming, it works with my laptop (presumably because the laptop is
smart enough to not require HDCP for non-HD programming, as opposed to
the BD Player, which requires it for its own menu). For the BD Player
and HD programming on the laptop, HDCP must be provided.

This is not one of the "cheap" ones but is not all that expensive
either.

So an HDMI splitter with two outputs and one of these and an HDMI to
DVI convertor should work with a new computer.

I have no idea whether the monitors provide HDCP or not. If they
don't, then I will need to finesse that, just as I did for video.

>The other headache that's coming along is DisplyPort (DP). Like
>VGA conversion, any given device is either DP to HDMI or HDMI to
>DP. DP to HDMI are very common. To find an HDMI to DP, you've
>got to sift through a lot of entries. And, again, there are
>quality issues as well as having to be an active device.

My first stop on Amazon would be /StarTech/ devices. They may not be
"cheap", but they do seem to work.

For example,
[https://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-DisplayPort-HDMI-Adapter-1920x1200/dp/B0035PS57M/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=3G96231Y36T8J&keywords=startech%2Bhdmi%2Bto%2Bdisplayport%2Badapter&qid=1670606753&s=electronics&sprefix=StarTech%2Bhdmi%2Bto%2Celectronics%2C143&sr=1-1-spons&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExN0Y5VzJQRUNaMllCJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUExMDM1MDY2T1M5SUVTR1NHQkMmZW5jcnlwdGVkQWRJZD1BMDM5MjcyMDNOSzFZTEI1T1YzODkmd2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGYmYWN0aW9uPWNsaWNrUmVkaXJlY3QmZG9Ob3RMb2dDbGljaz10cnVl&th=1]
may or may not be what you are after. "startech hdmi to displayport"
brings up other choices, some of which accomodate 4K.

When dealing with East Asian Technotrash, restricting yourself to a
brand (or brands) you know are reliable is one way to cut down the
clutter and avoid the el-cheapo losers.
--
"In this connexion, unquestionably the most significant
development was the disintegration, under Christian
influence, of classical conceptions of the family and
of family right."