Robert Woodward wrote:

>In article <7a6f3472-27f2-4679-9cf3-6a27277fc97fn@googlegroups.com>,
> Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>
>> On Monday, March 20, 2023 at 7:06:27?AM UTC-6, James Nicoll wrote:
>> > As I recall, Russia abandoned communism
>> > but managed to preserve the unpleasantness.
>>
>> And that was prophetic, since that's exactly what happened!
>>
>
>But it wasn't that much of a stretch, since Russia had abandoned
>Tsarist autocracy, but still preserved the unpleasantness.

It's almost as if the Russians aren't happy unless the government is
throwing people in prison (or worse).

Brian

On 7/27/2023 8:35 PM, Default User wrote:
> Quadibloc wrote:
>
>> On Wednesday, July 26, 2023 at 8:36:30 PM UTC-6, Default User wrote:
>>
>>> Last year I discussed a 1969 story - "Five Way Secret Agent" by
>>> Mack Reynolds. Part of that discussed technology:
>
>> Hmm. Sounds like Mack Reynolds was inspired by 1984, but just decided
>> that he would update the technology by making the telescreens
>> portable.
>
> Well, 1984 was about a lot more than that. In general, things in
> Reynolds's America aren't too bad. It's democratic, at least at the
> time, with a decent dole for those that can't or don't work (although
> you lose the right to vote).
>
> It's best not to leap to conclusions without reading the actual work.
> Of course, some people here seem able to leap to erroneous conclusions
> even AFTER reading the work.
>
Well, patting ourselves on the back and leaping to conclusions are a
major part of our exercise regimen.

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

On Friday, July 28, 2023 at 1:36:48 PM UTC+10, Default User wrote:
> Robert Woodward wrote:
>
> >In article <7a6f3472-27f2-4679...@googlegroups.com>,
> > Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
> >
> >> On Monday, March 20, 2023 at 7:06:27?AM UTC-6, James Nicoll wrote:
> >> > As I recall, Russia abandoned communism
> >> > but managed to preserve the unpleasantness.
> >>
> >> And that was prophetic, since that's exactly what happened!
> >>
> >
> >But it wasn't that much of a stretch, since Russia had abandoned
> >Tsarist autocracy, but still preserved the unpleasantness.
> It's almost as if the Russians aren't happy unless the government is
> throwing people in prison (or worse).
>
How do incarceration rates in Russia compare to the USA?

On Fri, 28 Jul 2023 03:36:45 -0000 (UTC), "Default User"
<defaultuserbr@yahoo.com> wrote:

>>But it wasn't that much of a stretch, since Russia had abandoned
>>Tsarist autocracy, but still preserved the unpleasantness.
>
>It's almost as if the Russians aren't happy unless the government is
>throwing people in prison (or worse).

But HAD Russia actually changed the autocracy or merely changed the
color from white to red? (And added 5 pointed stars to every
official's badge)

On Saturday, July 29, 2023 at 3:13:26 AM UTC-4, The Horny Goat wrote:
> On Fri, 28 Jul 2023 03:36:45 -0000 (UTC), "Default User"
> <defaul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >>But it wasn't that much of a stretch, since Russia had abandoned
> >>Tsarist autocracy, but still preserved the unpleasantness.
> >
> >It's almost as if the Russians aren't happy unless the government is
> >throwing people in prison (or worse).
> But HAD Russia actually changed the autocracy or merely changed the
> color from white to red? (And added 5 pointed stars to every
> official's badge)

Russian moral culture diverged from that of the West due to centuries of
Mongol overlordship. It never recovered.

Pt

On 2023-07-26, Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> wrote:
> On 25/03/23 14:02, Titus G wrote:
>>> On 22/03/23 11:31, Chris Buckley wrote:snip
>>>> If you want a very quirky, heavily political, very ambitious series, try
>>>> _Terra Ignota_ by Ada Palmer. snip
>>>> I'm not sure whether to recommend it. I admire it greatly, but for
>>>> whatever reason have only read the first three books of the four book
>>>> quartet. I think too many ideas...
>>
>> Having read only 4 or 5 chapters of book 1, Too Like The Lightning, I
>> see what you mean. The "too many ideas" is making reading rather slow
>> because of the distractions and I am already aware that there will be
>> levels beyond my literary comprehension. But I am fascinated being a
>> fish out of water in an amazing environment with intense characters in a
>> stateless society with such precise social mores. I hope this
>> fascination lasts for me longer than it did for you.
>
> Sometimes I wish I was as clever and articulate as Ada Palmer. Book one
> was amazing for ideas and concepts especially the world building of
> society with no nation states. But by book three, my growing familiarity
> with characters and understanding of how society operated made the slow
> moving plot and philosophies more important. I finished the third book a
> few months ago but it was a bit of a struggle with little happening but
> mainly interpretation of events from different perspectives so have been
> hesitant to start book four which is close to 1,000 pages.
>
>>
>> snip>> The author is a University of Chicago historian, and the some of the
>>>> politics are greatly influenced by the 18th century Age of Enlightenment.
>>>> Perhaps if I knew that era better, I would appreciate more of the
>>>> clashes between philosophies.
>
> The influence of De Sade was too pronounced for my taste later in book
> one making events and the associations of the Hive leaders less
> plausible but that was the only negative.
>
> snip
>>>> I'm also not sure whether to tell you to read the Wikipedia page
>>>> on it. It would have helped me understand what was going on a lot
>>>> sooner than I did, but that was intentional on the part of the author.
>>>> She definitely believes in just throwing you into the world.
>
> Yes. I chose that way and am glad I did. I have read the Wikipedia page
> since and found it a useful summary.
> snip

Thanks for the update! It sounds like your experience so far is much
the same as mine. I enjoyed the world-building and conflicts set up
in the first two books (though there were too many of them), but the
third book didn't sharpen those conflicts. It instead added still
more philosophical facets and things just got "muddied up" for me -
there were too many character actions and plot items I just couldn't
predict.

Oh well, I don't think I'm going to venture reading the 4th book, especially
since I would probably have to re-read the 3rd book by now.

Chris

On Sunday, March 19, 2023 at 2:04:45 PM UTC-4, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
> In article <tv7i12$2gihk$1...@newsreader4.netcologne.de>,
> Thomas Koenig <tko...@netcologne.de> wrote:
> >Suppose you're an aspiring SF writer 60 years ago, 1963.
> >Through some *hand wave*, you get access to information about
> >what has happened in the meantime - technology, major events,
> >social changes etc, Internet, social media, you name it, and
> >you decide to write a major novel set in 2023.
> >
> >What would you write about?
> Well, I said a while ago that everybody prognosticating missed
> Cellphone Culture. So that. Probably weave the Musk "Delos D. Harriman"
> story in as the plot. That lets you bring in Space, Social Media, War,
> Cars, & Politics. Hopefully since it's 1963, we don't get a 70s ending..
> --
> columbiaclosings.com
> What's not in Columbia anymore..

Christopher Anvil "Handhelds" collected in _RX for Cgaos_ from Baen, fairly recently.

On Monday, March 20, 2023 at 4:40:45 AM UTC-4, David Johnston wrote:
> On 2023-03-19 11:31 p.m., Andrew McDowell wrote:

....

> Not every technological advance has narrative value. mRNA vaccines are
> actually pretty dull stuff. The COVID outbreak itself has narrative
> potential as a backdrop. You could do a story along the lines of a
> person confined for months by quarantining, turning to online gaming and
> and ending up addicted to virtual experience while afraid to leave their
> house.

Poul Anderson "The Saturn Game".

On 30/07/23 14:12, Chris Buckley wrote:
snip

> Thanks for the update! It sounds like your experience so far is much
> the same as mine. I enjoyed the world-building and conflicts set up
> in the first two books (though there were too many of them), but the
> third book didn't sharpen those conflicts. It instead added still
> more philosophical facets and things just got "muddied up" for me -
> there were too many character actions and plot items I just couldn't
> predict.
>
> Oh well, I don't think I'm going to venture reading the 4th book, especially
> since I would probably have to re-read the 3rd book by now.

Book 4, "Perhaps the Stars", had far too much detail about how the war
in the stateless society began and progressed which failed to retain my
attention. I managed 200 pages of 800+ interrupted by an Elmore Leonard
western and a Ruth Rendell weird criminal mind mystery which were far
more fun. Today I decided not to continue so skimmed chapter headings
and read parts of the final chapter. The first book was brilliant, a
solid 4 stars and book 2 was also rewarding. Perhaps if I was more
interested in the mechanics of politics I would have persevered. Or
maybe my brain is too small.

Minor spoiler follows.

Spoiler space.

Although the plot was secondary to the operation of a stateless society,
you may be interested to know that MASON decreed that Utopia would be
banished from Mars in 200 years time, 2654 when it would be fully
developed, to seek their fortune in other solar systems to prevent the
next anticipated war between Utopia on Mars and the other hives on Earth.