Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote
>>> Mattb wrote
>>>> Fran
>>>> <gettingmoredelusionalbythedayistheforger@nutcasewannabeFran.com>
>>>> wrote
>>>>> Falscher Bruce wrote

>>>>>> Disappointing how many votes Hanson got, Palmer failed to get the
>>>>>> RWNJ vote. Early counting has a large swing to ALP in the west,
>>>>>> seems COVID was an issue there but not elsewhere.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't think Covid was an huge issue in WA. I think it was the
>>>>> support
>>>>> the govt gave to the Palmer legal challenge. THAT would have really
>>>>> pissed off the Westies.
>>>>> .
>>>>> Libs lost badly in Victoria, it seems the world's longest lockdown
>>>>> wasn't something that they couldn't take advantage of. Teals have
>>>>> done
>>>>> pretty good, but knocked out moderate Liberals. I can see the
>>>>> religious-right faction of coalition spinning this as people not
>>>>> wanting
>>>>> left-leaning policies. God knows what the senate will look like.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The pervading blokinesss of the whole campaign got the Libs in deep
>>>>> doodoo. They pissed off and took for granted women voters (and
>>>>> especially moderate ones) and that got them the result they deserved.
>>>>> You've seen the sort of comments made here by the LNP troll, the
>>>>> pretzel
>>>>> and Roddles. They are fairly typical of the sort of mentality that
>>>>> pervaded the LNP and that results in turning long time LNP voters to
>>>>> support the teals in socially progressive electorates.
>>>>>
>>>>> The one place where they might still do OK is Gilmore. Constance has
>>>>> shown he's got the ability to learn from bitter experiences, to admit
>>>>> that he has vulnerabilities and to show support and understanding of
>>>>> the
>>>>> experiences of voters in his electorate.
>>>>>
>>>>> I was delighted to see that Bridget Archer got up (no thanks to
>>>>> Morrison
>>>>> there!) and the Keneally went down (YAY!) and the Dai Le got up.
>>>>> Cancerned aobut JOsh though. Now we're gunna get Dutton as
>>>>> Opposition
>>>>> leader no doubt.... The LNP will be out of govt for more than one
>>>>> term
>>>>> onthe basis of this result.
>>>> In your opinion Fran has OZ gone more to the left or right with
>>>> this round of voting?
>>>>
>>>
>>> **It seems abundantly clear to me that Australians have voted that
>>> they want a government to reflect the majority view. IOW: Right down
>>> the middle. Neither far left, nor far right.
>>>
>>> How the Libs will manage with that Nazi, Dutton, in charge, is
>>> anyone's guess.

>> It remains to be seen if he is in chargegiven how marginal his win is
>> likely to be.

> I'm torn on this one. With Dutton as leader, the Libs are fucked.

We'll see...

> So, a good thing.

Only for the drug crazed drunken mindlessly one eyed and bigoted.

Even the stupid flan isnt actually as drug crazed drunken
mindlessly one eyed and bigoted as you. Even a terminal
fuckwit such as yourself should be able to work out that
that wouldnt be anything like a real democracy.

> If the Libs regain a sudden rush of commonsense, they'll elect a
> moderate,

It remains to be seen if they have one stupid enough
want to get involved. Can't even see any stupid woman
that stupid, but there might be one that stupid.

> rather than a Nazi.

You wouldn't know what a real Nazi was if one
bit you on your one eyed bigoted lard arse.

Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote
> Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote

>>>> I was delighted to see that Bridget Archer got up (no thanks to
>>>> Morrison
>>>> there!) and the Keneally went down (YAY!) and the Dai Le got up.
>>>> Cancerned aobut JOsh though. Now we're gunna get Dutton as Opposition
>>>> leader no doubt.... The LNP will be out of govt for more than one
>>>> term
>>>> onthe basis of this result.
>>>
>>> In your opinion Fran has OZ gone more to the left or right with
>>> this round of voting?
>>>
>>>
>>
>> **It seems abundantly clear to me that Australians have voted that they
>> want a government to reflect the majority view. IOW: Right down the
>> middle. Neither far left, nor far right.
>>
>> How the Libs will manage with that Nazi, Dutton, in charge, is anyone's
>> guess.

> Dutton is likely to be the new leader of the Coalition!

That remains to be seen given how marginal his seat is now.

> Albanese will be backstabbed shortly (before Christmas)by freak animal
> Penny Wong, or a similar farm animal.

Not a chance. Even Labor isnt actually THAT stupid.

They only politically assasinate those who look likely to
lose the next election and Xmas will be too early for that.

Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote
> Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote

>>> And even tho Albo is a lefty, none of his policys are.

>> Is that you Roddles? No one else mangles Englishin quite the way you
>> do. It's 'POLICIES' you boob.

> The spelling Nazi has came to get you Rod!

The rotty and shotty will soon fix him.

Falscher Bruce <bruce56@topmail.co.nz> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote

>> Dunno, they have a labor state govt that fucked covid
>> up spectacularly very recently. Doubt covid is relevant.

> I don't see they fucked up.

They opened the borders while covid is still killing 30-40
a day and have been too stupid to have any lockdowns
at all, or even mandate vaccination or masks.

> WA has more cases than NSW, which looksbad, but only one quarter as
> many in hospital.

So far. Bet there will be a big surge due to people voting.

> The vaccine mandates worked.

There is no vaccine mandate there and a huge number of deaths.

Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote
> Oliver Closeoff <commonsense@nospam.org> wrote

>> LOL in the fine sooky ALP tradition, Albo has fought back tears after
>> the election result.

>> True to form - Dud, Shortbum, now Sleazy Albanexi.

>> https://www.news.com.au/national/federal-election/labor-leader-anthony-albanese-speaks-after-scott-morrison-concedes-defeat/news-story/e3ff3d80bdd7d1c59056cb7ad77ae139

> You think the Yanks will allow a commie Nuclear Submarines?

Bet they do and that Albo is too stupid pull the plug on submarines.

> Will China will be allowed Nuclear navy bases around Australia?

Australia gets no say on that.

> Will Russia?

They aren't actually stupid enough to want any.

On Sun, 22 May 2022 09:56:47 +1000, Trevor Wilson
<trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote:

>On 22/05/2022 9:47 am, Petzl wrote:
>> On Sun, 22 May 2022 09:13:30 +1000, Trevor Wilson
>> <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote:
>>
>>> On 22/05/2022 9:09 am, Petzl wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 22 May 2022 06:42:38 +1000, Trevor Wilson
>>>> <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>> I was delighted to see that Bridget Archer got up (no thanks to Morrison
>>>>>>> there!) and the Keneally went down (YAY!) and the Dai Le got up.
>>>>>>> Cancerned aobut JOsh though. Now we're gunna get Dutton as Opposition
>>>>>>> leader no doubt.... The LNP will be out of govt for more than one term
>>>>>>> onthe basis of this result.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In your opinion Fran has OZ gone more to the left or right with
>>>>>> this round of voting?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> **It seems abundantly clear to me that Australians have voted that they
>>>>> want a government to reflect the majority view. IOW: Right down the
>>>>> middle. Neither far left, nor far right.
>>>>>
>>>>> How the Libs will manage with that Nazi, Dutton, in charge, is anyone's
>>>>> guess.
>>>>>
>>>> Dutton is likely to be the new leader of the Coalition!
>>>
>>> **Yep. Very likely. A Nazi in charge of a party full of Nazis.
>>>
>>>> Albanese will be backstabbed shortly (before Christmas) by freak
>>>> animal Penny Wong, or a similar farm animal.
>>>
>>> **Not a snowball's chance in Hell. For two reasons:
>>>
>>> 1) Labor will give Albo a chance to work in what is likely to be a
>>> minority government.
>>> 2) Labor has itself structured such that leaders being stabbed in the
>>> back is extremely unlikely.
>>>
>>> That said, we can only hope that Penny Wong is leader at the next
>>> election. She is smart, talented and would make a formidable leader.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Both parties won't acknowledge what a woman or a man is!
>>>
>>> **You're a fucking idiot.
>>>
>> You think you know what a idiot is
>> Hint look in the Mirror!
>
>**I'm not the one praying to some mysterious sky monster that performs
>magic tricks. Allegedly.
>
Miracles actually
>>>
>>>> Answer, get ready to avert ones eyes!!
>>>> A boy has a penis, a girl has a vagina (our creator decides)
>>>
>>> **Yep. I was right. You're a fucking idiot. There is no "creator".
>>>
>> Who made your Mobile phone?
>
>**It EVOLVED from fundamental research and development, starting with
>Tesla and Marconi and was built on the efforts of tens of thousands
>engineers working over the past 100+ years. The manufacturer is Oppo,
>but Oppo, like most manufacturers, purchases the 'building blocks' that
>make up a modern mobile 'phone from dozens of different manufacturers
>all over the planet.
>
How long does your mobile take to cook a egg?
Sounds like it has already cooked your "brain"
--
Petzl
Labor did not 'win' the LNP lost!!
Tough times ahead under this new (one-term) government!!

On 22/05/2022 9:28 am, Petzl wrote:
> On Sat, 21 May 2022 20:34:31 -0000, Oliver Closeoff
> <commonsense@nospam.org> wrote:
>
>> LOL in the fine sooky ALP tradition, Albo has fought back tears after
>> the election result.
>>
>> True to form - Dud, Shortbum, now Sleazy Albanexi.
>>
>> https://www.news.com.au/national/federal-election/labor-leader-anthony-albanese-speaks-after-scott-morrison-concedes-defeat/news-story/e3ff3d80bdd7d1c59056cb7ad77ae139
>>
> You think the Yanks will allow a commie Nuclear Submarines?
> Will China will be allowed Nuclear navy bases around Australia?
> Will Russia?

**You should Scummo's bunch. He sold the Port of Darwin to the Chinese.

On 22/05/2022 9:15 am, Petzl wrote:
> On Sun, 22 May 2022 07:07:32 +1000, Trevor Wilson
> <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote:
>
>> How good is that?
>>
> And Penny Wong replaced him.

**I wish. Penny Wong would make an excellent PM. MUCH better than Albo.
Of course, misogynists (and racists) like you and Roddles would never
like such a thing to occur. You'd rather have a third rate moron, liar
and all-round useless cunt like Scummo to be in charge.

I was bemused again to see one "concession" speach from an AUS politician.
While he seemed able to face the reality of electors in his plum seat
have decided he's reached his used-by date, in at least 2 versions of the
speach shown on TV lsat night and this morning he used the same grab-back
of busted factoids he apparently has used for years.

His claims about Australian emissions -- found by the UN to be
the worst in per capita terms in the world -- was busted earlier
in the week on the ABC's Fact Check.

And his claims about the handling of the pandemic seemed to relate to
the situation from more than a year ago, before the full effect of his
govt's economic priorities were fully realized.

As of yesterday Australia did not have anywhere near the lowest
covid fatality rate (even in per capita terms) in the OECD.
Not in the lowest 10.
Not in the lowest 20.
There are, of course, only 38 members of the OECD.

It is -- of course -- lower than the United Kingdom, until overtaken
recently by Austria, he worst in Europe and the world.

OECD covid fatality rate per mn capita:

1:austria 16.13 WORST
2:unitedkingdom 5.23
3:finland 4.29
4:newzealand 3.16
5:greece 2.36
6:portugal 2.09
7:slovakia 1.95
8:ireland 1.92
9:canada 1.91
10:italy 1.88
11:germany 1.75
12:iceland 1.72
13:norway 1.66
14:australia 1.64 iraq <-- #14 out of 38
15:spain 1.61
16:france 1.45
17:denmark 1.35
18:us 1.15
19:latvia 1.08
20:belgium 0.97
21:luxembourg 0.96
22:sweden 0.94
23:slovenia 0.93
24:hungary 0.88
25:estonia 0.86
26:switzerland 0.75
27:chile 0.70
28:israel 0.68
29:lithuania 0.65
30:costarica 0.62
31:czechia 0.51
32:poland 0.28
33:japan 0.26
34:netherlands 0.19
35:mexico 0.14
36:turkey 0.10
37:colombia 0.04 BEST

We fact checked Josh Frydenberg on emissions reductions compared to NZ,
Canada and the OECD. Here's what we found
RMIT ABC Fact Check, 15 May 2022 22:48Z
Treasurer Josh Frydenberg says Australia has achieved a reduction in
emissions of 20 per cent on 2005 levels, which he says is greater than New
Zealand, Canada and the OECD. RMIT ABC Fact Check investigates.

[Mr Frydenberg has made the claim several times. But the verdict is:
B/S. He uses cherry-picked countries and even then different
cherry-picked periods from each country to compare. For Australia he
used the middle of the pandemic when industry was "off" and nothing to
do with govt climate policy. Fact Check finds 32 OECD countries are
down an avg 20.9% on 2005 levels in 2020, about 1% better than
Australia in the middle of the pandemic. Australia is no way 2x
better than the OECD average. The disparity is worse if we compare
data from the start of monitoring in 1990. On this basis Australia
has INCREASED its emissions even including land use changes by almost
20% -- similar to NZ's performance -- but Canada and the OECD average
is a reduction of around 13%.
And Frydenberg is the fed Treasurer and claims to be a whizz with numbers.
Ironically the peak of emissions in 2005 that Frydenberg uses as his
1998-like reference came during Howard's (conservative) PM-ship and started
to reduce after Rudd (Labor) was elected. The reduction extended under
Gillard (Labor) who brought in a carbon tax that was immed killed off
when Turnbull (conservative) was elected PM].

--
Upcoming events:
11 Jul, 11am EDT: NOAA's Billion Dollar Disasters Q2 release

Israel reports first suspected case of monkeypox in man who returned from Europe
The Times of Israel, 20 May 2022

US airlines cutting training requirements to get more pilots; shortage
Business Insider, 21 May 2022 13:13Z
[What could possibly go wrong?]

A $5 Trillion `Wealth Shock' Is Cracking Americans' Nest Eggs
Yahoo News UK, 21 May 2022 14:12Z

Japan claims China is trying to extract Japanese gas in East China Sea
ABC News, 21 May 2022 16:00Z
Japan lodges an official protest with China after discovering what it
claimed were efforts by Beijing to develop gas fields in disputed waters in
the East China Sea.

This election was the most transformative you can imagine -- and it goes
beyond Albanese's win
ABC/7.30, 21 May 2022 18:44Z
It is the end of the Morrison Government in an election which -- while it
might not have resulted in a landslide for the Opposition -- has seen the
conservative party decimated and shattered, writes Laura Tingle.

Australian Greens hail 'best result ever' with dramatic gains in lower house
The Guardian, 21 May 2022 14:04Z
Leader Adam Bandt celebrates 'massive mandate' and says Greens are willing
to talk to Anthony Albanese if Labor fails to win majority ...
[Greens were elected on a groundswell of support in normally conservative
SE Qld -- the major area hit by on-going flooding over the past 6m].

Morrison couldn't deliver a second miracle to part the teal sea
RN Breakfast, 21 May 2022 13:02Z
A generation of Liberal politicians have been lost and the recriminations
will be wide and deep, writes Patricia Karvelas.
[The signs of desperation as well as a hint of the hand of former
adman Scott Morrison ("Where The Bloody Hell Are Ya?") saw TV adds making
fun of Mr Albanese's surname. In his victory speech Anthony Albanese said
his election showed what Australia is about -- how the son of a single
mother on a disability pension and living in public housing can go on to
become PM. He said his govt will ensure religion, country of origin
or last name will not determine any Australian's course in life].

The 'teal bath' of independents heading to parliament, as Josh Frydenberg
falls
ABC News, 21 May 2022 12:03Z
Several well-funded independents ran against established Liberals on a
promise of climate action and govt integrity. Here's how the night has
turned out for them.

Mars Has Auroras Without a Global Magnetic Field, And We Finally Know How
ScienceAlert, 19 May 2022

[Sooo Cooold!]
Tornado hits western German city; dozens injured
The Associated Press, 21 May 2022 12:55Z

["That's Not My Job":]
Australia Election Results and Live Updates: Scott Morrison Concedes
The New York Times, 21 May 2022 14:41Z

On Sun, 22 May 2022 11:31:01 +1000, Trevor Wilson
<trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote:

> On 22/05/2022 9:28 am, Petzl wrote:
>> On Sat, 21 May 2022 20:34:31 -0000, Oliver Closeoff
>> <commonsense@nospam.org> wrote:
>>
>>> LOL in the fine sooky ALP tradition, Albo has fought back tears after
>>> the election result.
>>>
>>> True to form - Dud, Shortbum, now Sleazy Albanexi.
>>>
>>> https://www.news.com.au/national/federal-election/labor-leader-anthony-albanese-speaks-after-scott-morrison-concedes-defeat/news-story/e3ff3d80bdd7d1c59056cb7ad77ae139
>>>
>> You think the Yanks will allow a commie Nuclear Submarines?
>> Will China will be allowed Nuclear navy bases around Australia?
>> Will Russia?
>
> **You should Scummo's bunch. He sold the Port of Darwin to the Chinese.

Another of your bare faced lies.

On Sun, 22 May 2022 11:33:18 +1000, Trevor Wilson
<trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote:

>On 22/05/2022 9:15 am, Petzl wrote:
>> On Sun, 22 May 2022 07:07:32 +1000, Trevor Wilson
>> <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote:
>>
>>> How good is that?
>>>
>> And Penny Wong replaced him.
>
>**I wish. Penny Wong would make an excellent PM. MUCH better than Albo.
>Of course, misogynists (and racists) like you and Roddles would never
>like such a thing to occur. You'd rather have a third rate moron, liar
>and all-round useless cunt like Scummo to be in charge.
>
I have always been a Dutton believer just like you the racist Nazi.
--
Petzl
What perfect set of circumstances placed our Sun a
Celestial ball of fire at just the correct distance
from our little blue planet for life to evolve?
All simply conicidence?
The very fact we exist is nothing but the result of a
complex yet inevitable string of chemical accidents
and biological mutations?
There is no Grand meaning? There is no purpose?

If gravity was slightly more powerful
the universe would collapse into a bowl!
If gravity was less powerful the universe would fly apart,
there would be no stars no planets!

Gravity is precisely as strong as it needs to be!
If the ratio of the electromagnetic force to the
strong force wasn't 1% life wouldn't exist!

On Sun, 22 May 2022 12:11:30 +1000, "Rod Speed"
<rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sun, 22 May 2022 11:31:01 +1000, Trevor Wilson
><trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote:
>
>> On 22/05/2022 9:28 am, Petzl wrote:
>>> On Sat, 21 May 2022 20:34:31 -0000, Oliver Closeoff
>>> <commonsense@nospam.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> LOL in the fine sooky ALP tradition, Albo has fought back tears after
>>>> the election result.
>>>>
>>>> True to form - Dud, Shortbum, now Sleazy Albanexi.
>>>>
>>>> https://www.news.com.au/national/federal-election/labor-leader-anthony-albanese-speaks-after-scott-morrison-concedes-defeat/news-story/e3ff3d80bdd7d1c59056cb7ad77ae139
>>>>
>>> You think the Yanks will allow a commie Nuclear Submarines?
>>> Will China will be allowed Nuclear navy bases around Australia?
>>> Will Russia?
>>
>> **You should Scummo's bunch. He sold the Port of Darwin to the Chinese.
>
>Another of your bare faced lies.
>
Clevor Trevor ain't that clever
Bet he has a lot of "number three's" dreaming this shit up!
--
Petzl
The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other
people's money. #Sir Ronald Millar

All governments lie about some things, but Ordogs totalitarian
governments lie about everything.

On March fourteenth, in the year of our Lord. Eighteen eighty three
Karl Marx made his most important contribution to mankind...
He died

There is no difference between communism and socialism,
except in the means of achieving the same ultimate end:
communism proposes to enslave men by force,
socialism - by vote.
It is merely the difference between murder and suicide
#Margaret Thatcher

On Sun, 22 May 2022 12:41:03 +1000, Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sun, 22 May 2022 12:11:30 +1000, "Rod Speed"
> <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 22 May 2022 11:31:01 +1000, Trevor Wilson
>> <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote:
>>
>>> On 22/05/2022 9:28 am, Petzl wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 21 May 2022 20:34:31 -0000, Oliver Closeoff
>>>> <commonsense@nospam.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> LOL in the fine sooky ALP tradition, Albo has fought back tears after
>>>>> the election result.
>>>>>
>>>>> True to form - Dud, Shortbum, now Sleazy Albanexi.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.news.com.au/national/federal-election/labor-leader-anthony-albanese-speaks-after-scott-morrison-concedes-defeat/news-story/e3ff3d80bdd7d1c59056cb7ad77ae139
>>>>>
>>>> You think the Yanks will allow a commie Nuclear Submarines?
>>>> Will China will be allowed Nuclear navy bases around Australia?
>>>> Will Russia?
>>>
>>> **You should Scummo's bunch. He sold the Port of Darwin to the Chinese.
>>
>> Another of your bare faced lies.
>>
> Clevor Trevor ain't that clever
> Bet he has a lot of "number three's" dreaming this shit up!

Yeah, he was warned about his drug crazed drunken fantasys, but wouldn't
listen...

On 22/05/2022 12:13 pm, Petzl wrote:
> On Sun, 22 May 2022 11:33:18 +1000, Trevor Wilson
> <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote:
>
>> On 22/05/2022 9:15 am, Petzl wrote:
>>> On Sun, 22 May 2022 07:07:32 +1000, Trevor Wilson
>>> <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote:
>>>
>>>> How good is that?
>>>>
>>> And Penny Wong replaced him.
>>
>> **I wish. Penny Wong would make an excellent PM. MUCH better than Albo.
>> Of course, misogynists (and racists) like you and Roddles would never
>> like such a thing to occur. You'd rather have a third rate moron, liar
>> and all-round useless cunt like Scummo to be in charge.
>>
> I have always been a Dutton believer just like you the racist Nazi.

**I believe Dutton exists too. I guess that makes me a Dutton believer.
Trouble is, he's a Nazi.

On Sunday, 22 May 2022 at 09:56:53 UTC+10, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> On 22/05/2022 9:47 am, Petzl wrote:
> > On Sun, 22 May 2022 09:13:30 +1000, Trevor Wilson
> > <tre...@rageaudio.com.au> wrote:
> >
> >> On 22/05/2022 9:09 am, Petzl wrote:
> >>> On Sun, 22 May 2022 06:42:38 +1000, Trevor Wilson
> >>> <tre...@rageaudio.com.au> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>>> I was delighted to see that Bridget Archer got up (no thanks to Morrison
> >>>>>> there!) and the Keneally went down (YAY!) and the Dai Le got up.
> >>>>>> Cancerned aobut JOsh though. Now we're gunna get Dutton as Opposition
> >>>>>> leader no doubt.... The LNP will be out of govt for more than one term
> >>>>>> onthe basis of this result.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> In your opinion Fran has OZ gone more to the left or right with
> >>>>> this round of voting?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> **It seems abundantly clear to me that Australians have voted that they
> >>>> want a government to reflect the majority view. IOW: Right down the
> >>>> middle. Neither far left, nor far right.
> >>>>
> >>>> How the Libs will manage with that Nazi, Dutton, in charge, is anyone's
> >>>> guess.
> >>>>
> >>> Dutton is likely to be the new leader of the Coalition!
> >>
> >> **Yep. Very likely. A Nazi in charge of a party full of Nazis.
> >>
> >>> Albanese will be backstabbed shortly (before Christmas) by freak
> >>> animal Penny Wong, or a similar farm animal.
> >>
> >> **Not a snowball's chance in Hell. For two reasons:
> >>
> >> 1) Labor will give Albo a chance to work in what is likely to be a
> >> minority government.
> >> 2) Labor has itself structured such that leaders being stabbed in the
> >> back is extremely unlikely.
> >>
> >> That said, we can only hope that Penny Wong is leader at the next
> >> election. She is smart, talented and would make a formidable leader.
> >>
> >>>
> >>> Both parties won't acknowledge what a woman or a man is!
> >>
> >> **You're a fucking idiot.
> >>
> > You think you know what a idiot is
> > Hint look in the Mirror!
> **I'm not the one praying to some mysterious sky monster that performs
> magic tricks. Allegedly.
> >>
> >>> Answer, get ready to avert ones eyes!!
> >>> A boy has a penis, a girl has a vagina (our creator decides)
> >>
> >> **Yep. I was right. You're a fucking idiot. There is no "creator".
> >>
> > Who made your Mobile phone?
> **It EVOLVED from fundamental research and development, starting with
> Tesla and Marconi

Maxwell and Jagadish Chandra Bose, if we go by fundamental research.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEVKdiMQC6w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FvlA9DJTEk

and was built on the efforts of tens of thousands
> engineers working over the past 100+ years. The manufacturer is Oppo,
> but Oppo, like most manufacturers, purchases the 'building blocks' that
> make up a modern mobile 'phone from dozens of different manufacturers
> all over the planet.

On 22/05/2022 5:58 am, Fran wrote:
> On 21/05/2022 1:57 pm, Max wrote:
>> On 21/05/2022 12:18 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
>>> Max <max@val.morgan> wrote
>>>
>>>> If you vote informally, ie. you don't fill in enough boxes, what are
>>>> the chances you get in trouble for this?
>>>
>>> Zero, nada, ziltch, not a chance. It's a secret ballot, stupid.
>>
>> It is still an offence to vote informally,
>
> Cite?   I'm pretty certain you are wrong about that claim but couldn't
> be bothered to find out for sure.
>

You are right. Informal voting used to be illegal, but is no longer.

https://www.stacklaw.com.au/news/human-rights/voting-and-the-law/

On 22/05/2022 7:48 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> On 22/05/2022 7:21 am, Rod Speed wrote:
>> On Sun, 22 May 2022 06:42:38 +1000, Trevor Wilson
>> <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote:
>>
>>> On 22/05/2022 6:27 am, Mattb wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 22 May 2022 06:17:59 +1000, Fran
>>>> <gettingmoredelusionalbythedayistheforger@nutcasewannabeFran.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 21/05/2022 9:42 pm, Falscher Bruce wrote:
>>>>>> Disappointing how many votes Hanson got, Palmer failed to get the
>>>>>> RWNJ vote. Early counting has a large swing to ALP in the west,
>>>>>> seems COVID was an issue there but not elsewhere.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't think Covid was an huge issue in WA.  I think it was the
>>>>> support
>>>>> the govt gave to the Palmer legal challenge.  THAT would have really
>>>>> pissed off the Westies.
>>>>> .
>>>>> Libs lost badly in Victoria, it seems the world's longest lockdown
>>>>> wasn't something that they couldn't take advantage of. Teals have done
>>>>> pretty good, but knocked out moderate Liberals. I can see the
>>>>> religious-right faction of coalition spinning this as people not
>>>>> wanting
>>>>> left-leaning policies. God knows what the senate will look like.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The pervading blokinesss of the whole campaign got the Libs in deep
>>>>> doodoo.  They pissed off and took for granted women voters (and
>>>>> especially moderate ones) and that got them the result they deserved.
>>>>> You've seen the sort of comments made here by the LNP troll, the
>>>>> pretzel
>>>>> and Roddles.  They are fairly typical of the sort of mentality that
>>>>> pervaded the LNP and that results in turning long time LNP voters to
>>>>> support the  teals in socially progressive electorates.
>>>>>
>>>>> The one place where they might still do OK is Gilmore. Constance has
>>>>> shown he's got the ability to learn from bitter experiences, to admit
>>>>> that he has vulnerabilities and to show support and understanding
>>>>> of the
>>>>> experiences of voters in his electorate.
>>>>>
>>>>> I was delighted to see that Bridget Archer got up (no thanks to
>>>>> Morrison
>>>>> there!) and the Keneally went down (YAY!) and the Dai Le got up.
>>>>> Cancerned aobut JOsh though.  Now we're gunna get Dutton as Opposition
>>>>> leader no doubt....  The LNP will be out of govt for more than one
>>>>> term
>>>>> onthe basis of this result.
>>>>      In your opinion Fran has OZ gone more to the left or right with
>>>> this round of voting?

IMO, back towards the centre. Oz is never to comfortabl with extremes
anfd we've been off to the right over the pst decade.
>>>>
>>>
>>> **It seems abundantly clear to me that Australians have voted that
>>> they want a government to reflect the majority view. IOW: Right down
>>> the middle. Neither far left, nor far right.

Yep

>>> How the Libs will manage with that Nazi, Dutton, in charge, is
>>> anyone's guess.

It'll send the Libs into the wilderness if he's incapable of chance. i
personally thik Dutton is as cunning a an outhouse rat and woulnd't be
at all surprised to see a cnversio from him.

>> It remains to be seen if he is in charge given how marginal his win is
>> likely to be.
>
> **I'm torn on this one. With Dutton as leader, the Libs are fucked.

Yep.

So,
> a good thing. If the Libs regain a sudden rush of common sense, they'll
> elect a moderate, rather than a Nazi.

Yep. But they need to rebuild from the ground up.

dolf <dolfboek@hotmail.com> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> dolf <dolfboek@hotmail.com> wrote

>>> My reasonable conclusion was a "proposition of power which is asserted
>>> by a larger population having a prevalence of a sexual disease"

>> Try that again in english, even google translate doesnt do
>> gobbledegook yet.

> Which word beyond "is" was too difficult for you?

The entire sentence is a steaming meaningless turd.

>>> is a natural intuition drawn from the historical context itself.

>> Ditto.

>>> Which then doesn't need a coerced justification of gender based
>>> political
>>> diatribe.

>> You wouldn't know what a gender based political diatribe was if it bit
>> you on your lard arse.

>>> It's much like asking if Boris was teleported to 18 century London
>>> would he
>>> have girded loins and be of sound mind since he has a "Let them eat
>>> cake"
>>> attitude...

>> Bullshit he has.

> I cannot ignore this wilful stupidity since here is evidence that Boris
> has a "Let them eat cake" attitude:

Bullshit he has.

> "Prime Minister Boris Johnson pictured holding up a birthday cake as he
> visits Bovingdon Primary Academy in Hertfordshire, a few hours before he
> received another cake back in London"
>
> <https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/15D22/production/_122987398_50022889771_54db72f28e_c.jpg>
>
> ACTUAL NEWS ARTICLE:
>
> <https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-60121572>

Even sillier than you usually manage and that's saying something.

>>> YOUTUBE: "Let Them Eat Cake - The Pox"
>>>
>>> <https://youtu.be/5yWJKi0UOwQ>

>> Just because some fool claims something...

>>> dolf <dolfboek@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>> dolf <dolfboek@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> I don't need to reply further because you ignored the historical
>>>>> context of
>>>>> a Syphilis pandemic would obviously have such a reasoned cause as
>>>>> probably known to Freud ...
>>>>>
>>>>> And I won't pander to your narcissistic self justification--you were
>>>>> in
>>>>> error.
>>>>>
>>>>> I posited that the "Victorian sexual morality" was a response to the
>>>>> historical reality that reasonably some 60 - 80% of Londoners within
>>>>> the
>>>>> 18th century might have a sexually transmitted disease.
>>>>
>>>> And we know from Captain Cook's travel diaries that there wasn't
>>>> sufficient
>>>> medical supplies on the ship to treat the rampant sexual diseases
>>>> amongst
>>>> the sailors and throughout the pacific islands who prostituted even
>>>> their
>>>> wives.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> That was the basis of my claim a "vagina with teeth" is a
>>>>> proposition of
>>>>> power which is asserted by a larger population having a prevalence of
>>>>> disease
>>>>>
>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> dolf <dolfboek@hotmail.com> wrote
>>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>>>> dolf <dolfboek@hotmail.com> wrote
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Surely Sigmund Freud was a student of history
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Nope.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It might be more correct to suggest that the VICTORIAN(20 June
>>>>>>> 1837 –
>>>>>>> 22 Jan 1901) era attitudes are a responseto the sexual disease and
>>>>>>> deprivations of the age prior.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not really. Just read
>>>>>> Lock, Joan. Scotland Yard Casebook (p. 204). Lume Books.
>>>>>> Interesting that quite a few of the toffs were into quite literally
>>>>>> whipping and torturing children in organised events. Hard
>>>>>> to see that that could be due to the sexual disease and
>>>>>> deprivations of the age prior.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If one in five persons within London had Syphilis and a far greater
>>>>>>> number had gonorrhea or chlamydia then it is reasonable to
>>>>>>> concludethat
>>>>>>> between 3 / 5th (60%) to 4 / 5th (80%) percent of the population
>>>>>>> possessed a long term venereal disease and such professional
>>>>>>> knowledge
>>>>>>> would no doubt have permeated amongst the intelligentsia as to
>>>>>>> view a
>>>>>>> "more rigorous form of Victorian sexual morality than England" as
>>>>>>> being
>>>>>>> prudent.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The reality is that Victorian sexual morality
>>>>>> was much more just a fascade than reality.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Freud lived and worked in Vienna, having set up his clinical
>>>>>>> practice
>>>>>>> there in 1886. In 1938, Freud left Austria to escape Nazi
>>>>>>> persecution.
>>>>>>> He died in exile in the United Kingdom in 1939--It is not for me to
>>>>>>> extrapolate or research whether his association with the UK was
>>>>>>> before
>>>>>>> 1938 entirely non-existent.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But it is clear from his biographys that before 1938 entirely
>>>>>> non-existent.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> His Five Lectures on Psychoanalysis and Civilization and its
>>>>>>> Discontents
>>>>>>> belong to two distinct phases of Freud’s thought—a thought which
>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>> always changing, expanding, and being revised , and which has as
>>>>>>> many
>>>>>>> discontinuities as continuities. Both texts rest written from
>>>>>>> Freud’s
>>>>>>> basic psychoanalytic perspective; each reflects the general
>>>>>>> *historical*, philosophical, and scientific movements in which
>>>>>>> Freud
>>>>>>> found himself when he developed psychoanalysis.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Freud’s Austria of the second half of the nineteenth century was
>>>>>>> characterized by an even more rigorous form of Victorian sexual
>>>>>>> morality
>>>>>>> than England, whose sexual delicacy and frigidity is often
>>>>>>> caricatured.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Even that isn't clear at all.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This rigorous sexual morality did not, however,prevent Victorians
>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>> speaking about sexuality.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And doing it with children in spades.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The large, urban, professional middle class—the bourgeoisie—had an
>>>>>>> intense moral preoccupation with sexuality, particularly in women
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> children. Their sexual interests, and sexual knowledge, were
>>>>>>> understood
>>>>>>> to be naturally limited; however, in the case of exceptions, this
>>>>>>> interest and knowledge were carefully regulated.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not really.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Young women were expected to be chaste before marriage;
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nothing unusual about that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> and the private sexual experimentation of children and
>>>>>>> adolescents—for
>>>>>>> example, masturbation—were assiduously suppressed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thats bullshit with the dregs of their society.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Additionally, a *growing* *knowledge* *of* *sexual* *diseases*,
>>>>>>> *like*
>>>>>>> *syphilis*, created, in the public mind, an association between
>>>>>>> *sexual*
>>>>>>> *promiscuity* *and* *catastrophic* *epidemics*. Sexuality not only
>>>>>>> needed to be regulatedby personal morality, or by the vigilance
>>>>>>> of the
>>>>>>> family, but, since it could affect entire populations, was a
>>>>>>> political
>>>>>>> and social concern.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But the reality is that raping of children and servants was rife.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> At the same time the nascent field of sexology was developing. A
>>>>>>> number
>>>>>>> of medical researchers, like Havelock Ellis and Richard von
>>>>>>> Krafft-Ebing—whom Feud knew and who publicly commented on one of
>>>>>>> Freud’s
>>>>>>> earliest papers—gave detailed and meticulous accounts of the forms
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> varieties of sexual behaviors and identities, regardless of their
>>>>>>> rarity
>>>>>>> or apparent perversity.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And with Ellis, showed that it was nothing even remotely like rare.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> They also tried to connect facts about sexuality to other facts,
>>>>>>> which
>>>>>>> had no self-evident relationship to sexuality; they asked, for
>>>>>>> example,
>>>>>>> how sexuality relates to class,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It was well known that the dregs fucked like rabbits and
>>>>>> that abortion was rife.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> or how sexuality relates to criminality.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thats more complicated given that what was illegal changed so much.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The late nineteenth century was, therefore, characterized by an
>>>>>>> interesting constellation of trends: a personal, familial, and
>>>>>>> political
>>>>>>> regulation of sexuality, on the one hand, and a proliferation of
>>>>>>> scientific writing which showed how that problematic sexuality
>>>>>>> nevertheless had a secure and extensive place in human nature,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Corse it did.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> on the other hand. This constellation served as an auspicious
>>>>>>> context
>>>>>>> for Freud to develop his theories. Freud described how all kinds of
>>>>>>> unusual, or “perverse,” sexual desires dominate the mind—in
>>>>>>> children, in
>>>>>>> neurotic adults, but also in normal adults. Freud also showed how
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> mind finds itself in an irrevocable conflict with its own
>>>>>>> sexuality: how
>>>>>>> it fears its sexuality, and tries to avoid and eliminate it, or,
>>>>>>> most
>>>>>>> importantly, how it tries to forget it, or remove it from conscious
>>>>>>> awareness.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thats silly with the dregs of society that just got on with fucking
>>>>>> like
>>>>>> rabbits.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For Freud, this meant that unusual, “perverse” sexuality had a
>>>>>>> peculiar
>>>>>>> fate. Regulated by morality, removed from conscious awareness, but
>>>>>>> still
>>>>>>> very much extant, it became “unconscious”: no longer under the
>>>>>>> control
>>>>>>> of a person’s self-conscious and voluntary choices, it manifested
>>>>>>> in a
>>>>>>> person’s involuntary actions, like mistakes and slips of the
>>>>>>> tongues, as
>>>>>>> well as in mental pathologies, like obsession, paranoia, hysteria,
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> anxiety.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That is all just another mindless wank.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <https://www.college.columbia.edu/core/content/writings-sigmund-freud/context>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>

On 22/05/2022 9:13 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> On 22/05/2022 9:09 am, Petzl wrote:

>> Albanese will be backstabbed shortly (before Christmas) by freak
>> animal Penny Wong, or a similar farm animal.

Jesus wept. Wong is in the Senate yu booby!
>
> **Not a snowball's chance in Hell. For two reasons:
>
> 1) Labor will give Albo a chance to work in what is likely to be a
> minority government.
> 2) Labor has itself structured such that leaders being stabbed in the
> back is extremely unlikely.

And, c) Wong is in the Senate.
>
> That said, we can only hope that Penny Wong is leader at the next
> election. She is smart, talented and would make a formidable leader.

SHE'S A SENATOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PMs are members of the Reps!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

On 22/05/2022 7:07 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> How good is that?

An excellent result.

On 22/05/2022 11:33 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> On 22/05/2022 9:15 am, Petzl wrote:
>> On Sun, 22 May 2022 07:07:32 +1000, Trevor Wilson
>> <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote:
>>
>>> How good is that?
>>>
>> And Penny Wong replaced him.

No, she's a Senator!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> **I wish. Penny Wong would make an excellent PM.

Except she's in the Senate.........

MUCH better than Albo.
> Of course, misogynists (and racists) like you and Roddles would never
> like such a thing to occur. You'd rather have a third rate moron, liar
> and all-round useless cunt like Scummo to be in charge.

Unfortunately she's gt an uncertain temper. Although I think she'll
make a good Foreign Minister, even if she was in the Reps, I'd not want
to see her as PM.

On 22/05/2022 1:51 pm, Max wrote:
> On 22/05/2022 5:58 am, Fran wrote:
>> On 21/05/2022 1:57 pm, Max wrote:
>>> On 21/05/2022 12:18 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>> Max <max@val.morgan> wrote
>>>>
>>>>> If you vote informally, ie. you don't fill in enough boxes, what
>>>>> are the chances you get in trouble for this?
>>>>
>>>> Zero, nada, ziltch, not a chance. It's a secret ballot, stupid.
>>>
>>> It is still an offence to vote informally,
>>
>> Cite?   I'm pretty certain you are wrong about that claim but couldn't
>> be bothered to find out for sure.
>>
>
> You are right. Informal voting used to be illegal, but is no longer.
>
> https://www.stacklaw.com.au/news/human-rights/voting-and-the-law/

Thanks. Suicide also used to be illegal. Dumb to make either of those
things 'illegal' IMO.

On 22/05/2022 6:42 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> On 22/05/2022 6:27 am, Mattb wrote:
>> On Sun, 22 May 2022 06:17:59 +1000, Fran
>> <gettingmoredelusionalbythedayistheforger@nutcasewannabeFran.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 21/05/2022 9:42 pm, Falscher Bruce wrote:
>>>> Disappointing how many votes Hanson got, Palmer failed to get the
>>>> RWNJ vote. Early counting has a large swing to ALP in the west,
>>>> seems COVID was an issue there but not elsewhere.
>>>
>>> I don't think Covid was an huge issue in WA.  I think it was the support
>>> the govt gave to the Palmer legal challenge.  THAT would have really
>>> pissed off the Westies.
>>> .
>>> Libs lost badly in Victoria, it seems the world's longest lockdown
>>> wasn't something that they couldn't take advantage of. Teals have done
>>> pretty good, but knocked out moderate Liberals. I can see the
>>> religious-right faction of coalition spinning this as people not wanting
>>> left-leaning policies. God knows what the senate will look like.
>>>>
>>>
>>> The pervading blokinesss of the whole campaign got the Libs in deep
>>> doodoo.  They pissed off and took for granted women voters (and
>>> especially moderate ones) and that got them the result they deserved.
>>> You've seen the sort of comments made here by the LNP troll, the pretzel
>>> and Roddles.  They are fairly typical of the sort of mentality that
>>> pervaded the LNP and that results in turning long time LNP voters to
>>> support the  teals in socially progressive electorates.
>>>
>>> The one place where they might still do OK is Gilmore. Constance has
>>> shown he's got the ability to learn from bitter experiences, to admit
>>> that he has vulnerabilities and to show support and understanding of the
>>> experiences of voters in his electorate.
>>>
>>> I was delighted to see that Bridget Archer got up (no thanks to Morrison
>>> there!) and the Keneally went down (YAY!) and the Dai Le got up.
>>> Cancerned aobut JOsh though.  Now we're gunna get Dutton as Opposition
>>> leader no doubt....  The LNP will be out of govt for more than one term
>>> onthe basis of this result.
>>
>>     In your opinion Fran has OZ gone more to the left or right with
>> this round of voting?
>>
>>
>
> **It seems abundantly clear to me that Australians have voted that they
> want a government to reflect the majority view. IOW: Right down the
> middle. Neither far left, nor far right.

I think there is an element of "a pox on both your houses" in the vote.

Labor could have been much more daring IMO but I can understand why they
weren't
>
> How the Libs will manage with that Nazi, Dutton, in charge, is anyone's
> guess.

It'll screw the LNP for a several terms if he doesn't change his ways
and the LNP don't take notice of the messages this election has given
them.

Fran <gettingmoredelusionalbythedayistheforger@nutcasewannabeFran.com>
wrote in news:t6ce1p$fb6$4@dont-email.me:

> On 22/05/2022 1:51 pm, Max wrote:
>> On 22/05/2022 5:58 am, Fran wrote:
>>> On 21/05/2022 1:57 pm, Max wrote:
>>>> On 21/05/2022 12:18 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>> Max <max@val.morgan> wrote
>>>>>
>>>>>> If you vote informally, ie. you don't fill in enough boxes, what
>>>>>> are the chances you get in trouble for this?
>>>>>
>>>>> Zero, nada, ziltch, not a chance. It's a secret ballot, stupid.
>>>>
>>>> It is still an offence to vote informally,
>>>
>>> Cite?   I'm pretty certain you are wrong about that claim but
>>> couldn't be bothered to find out for sure.
>>>
>>
>> You are right. Informal voting used to be illegal, but is no longer.
>>
>> https://www.stacklaw.com.au/news/human-rights/voting-and-the-law/
>
>
> Thanks. Suicide also used to be illegal. Dumb to make either of
> those things 'illegal' IMO.
>

What was the penalty for Suicide ?

I take it not the death penalty

On 22/05/2022 3:04 pm, Whatawonderfulworld wrote:
> Fran <gettingmoredelusionalbythedayistheforger@nutcasewannabeFran.com>
> wrote in news:t6ce1p$fb6$4@dont-email.me:
>
>> On 22/05/2022 1:51 pm, Max wrote:
>>> On 22/05/2022 5:58 am, Fran wrote:
>>>> On 21/05/2022 1:57 pm, Max wrote:
>>>>> On 21/05/2022 12:18 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>> Max <max@val.morgan> wrote
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you vote informally, ie. you don't fill in enough boxes, what
>>>>>>> are the chances you get in trouble for this?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Zero, nada, ziltch, not a chance. It's a secret ballot, stupid.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is still an offence to vote informally,
>>>>
>>>> Cite?   I'm pretty certain you are wrong about that claim but
>>>> couldn't be bothered to find out for sure.
>>>>
>>>
>>> You are right. Informal voting used to be illegal, but is no longer.
>>>
>>> https://www.stacklaw.com.au/news/human-rights/voting-and-the-law/
>>
>>
>> Thanks. Suicide also used to be illegal. Dumb to make either of
>> those things 'illegal' IMO.
>>
>
> What was the penalty for Suicide ?
>
> I take it not the death penalty

**Since religion pervaded our society back then, probably eternal
damnation, or something similarly daft.