On 4/01/2023 12:21 am, Scout wrote:
>
>
> "Trevor Wilson" <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
> news:k1gob3Fn22sU2@mid.individual.net...
>> On 3/01/2023 3:41 am, Scout wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> "KKKernal Corn" <vet@invalid.com> wrote in message
>>> news:im84rhh7fv3vigtgplrbfnb84b1159b84f@4ax.com...
>>>> On Mon, 2 Jan 2023 10:40:35 +1100, Trevor Wilson
>>>> <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2/01/2023 8:47 am, KKKernal Corn wrote:
>>>>>> On Sun, 1 Jan 2023 21:27:37 -0000 (UTC), Lars <lars@hotmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Melting sea ice has only a minor impact on sea level rise because
>>>>>>> the ice
>>>>>>> is already in the ocean, but it does cause major changes to the
>>>>>>> planet.
>>>>>>> When sea ice melts, more sunlight is absorbed by the Earth, which
>>>>>>> causes
>>>>>>> more warming.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's a vicious cycle.  And here's how it works:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> When solar radiation hits snow and ice, approximately 90% of it is
>>>>>>> reflected back out to space. As global warming causes more snow
>>>>>>> and ice to
>>>>>>> melt each summer, the ocean underneath the ice is exposed. The
>>>>>>> dark color
>>>>>>> of ocean absorbs more incoming solar radiation, reflecting less
>>>>>>> back out
>>>>>>> to space. In this way, melting ice causes more warming and so
>>>>>>> more ice
>>>>>>> melts. This is known as a feedback. According to a recent
>>>>>>> scientific study
>>>>>>> that used computer models to predict the future of Arctic sea
>>>>>>> ice, there
>>>>>>> may be no more sea ice left in the Arctic Ocean during summer
>>>>>>> within the
>>>>>>> next few decades
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You can make a simple model that shows how the color of ice and
>>>>>>> water
>>>>>>> impacts temperature.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What you need:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2 thermometers
>>>>>>> A photo of what sea ice and ocean look like from a satellite
>>>>>>> (like this
>>>>>>> one from the NASA Earth Observatory)
>>>>>>> Tape
>>>>>>> Watch or stopwatch
>>>>>>> A lamp with a 75-100 watt incandescent bulb (or sunshine)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What you do:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Fix thermometers to the back of the picture using tape. One
>>>>>>> thermometer
>>>>>>> bulb should be under ice and the other under ocean. Place the
>>>>>>> thermometers
>>>>>>> so that when you lay the picture down on a table, they are right
>>>>>>> side up
>>>>>>> and can be read.
>>>>>>> Place the light about a foot above the picture. Don't turn it on
>>>>>>> yet!
>>>>>>> Read the thermometers before the light is turned on.
>>>>>>> Turn on their light and record the start time.
>>>>>>> Read the temperature of both thermometers every two minutes.
>>>>>>> Which warms
>>>>>>> faster: the thermometer under white ice or the one under dark ocean?
>>>>>>> Check out more icy science:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Types of Ice
>>>>>>> Climate and Ice
>>>>>>> Melting Arctic Sea Ice and Ocean Circulation
>>>>>>> Compare Arctic Sea Ice Extent
>>>>>>> A classroom version of the activity above: Looking into Surface
>>>>>>> Albedo
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://scied.ucar.edu/learning-zone/climate-change-impacts/sea-ice-and-
>>>>>>> heat-vicious-cycle
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yebbut how do you explain the next Ice Age?
>>>>>
>>>>> **An ice age is ALWAYS preceded by falling temperatures.
>>>>>
>>>>> The average temperature of the planet is RISING.
>>>>>
>>>>> Therefore, we cannot expect to see an ice age anytime soon.
>>>>
>>>> But there will eventually BE one.
>>>
>>> Actually looking at the historical record.. the next glacial period
>>> can be expected at any time.. indeed.. global warming could be the
>>> trigger for a glacial period.
>>
>> **Nonsense. You can't have a glaciation, whilst temperatures are rising.
>
> Where did I ever suggest otherwise?

**I have no idea if you suggested otherwise. I was responding to Rod
Speed's idiocy. Not your idiocy. That was elsewhere in the thread.

>
> Poor Trevor, so desperate to be as stupid and ignorant as Rudy.

**Lay off the drugs and alcohol for awhile. You'll feel better and,
perhaps, you may present a cogent response.

Or not.

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On 4/01/2023 12:12 am, Scout wrote:
>
>
> "Trevor Wilson" <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
> news:k1gogdFn22sU3@mid.individual.net...
>> On 3/01/2023 3:40 am, Scout wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> "Trevor Wilson" <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
>>> news:k1ejvkFcpsqU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>> On 2/01/2023 8:47 am, KKKernal Corn wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 1 Jan 2023 21:27:37 -0000 (UTC), Lars <lars@hotmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Melting sea ice has only a minor impact on sea level rise because
>>>>>> the ice
>>>>>> is already in the ocean, but it does cause major changes to the
>>>>>> planet.
>>>>>> When sea ice melts, more sunlight is absorbed by the Earth, which
>>>>>> causes
>>>>>> more warming.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It’s a vicious cycle.  And here’s how it works:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When solar radiation hits snow and ice, approximately 90% of it is
>>>>>> reflected back out to space. As global warming causes more snow
>>>>>> and ice to
>>>>>> melt each summer, the ocean underneath the ice is exposed. The
>>>>>> dark color
>>>>>> of ocean absorbs more incoming solar radiation, reflecting less
>>>>>> back out
>>>>>> to space. In this way, melting ice causes more warming and so more
>>>>>> ice
>>>>>> melts. This is known as a feedback. According to a recent
>>>>>> scientific study
>>>>>> that used computer models to predict the future of Arctic sea ice,
>>>>>> there
>>>>>> may be no more sea ice left in the Arctic Ocean during summer
>>>>>> within the
>>>>>> next few decades
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You can make a simple model that shows how the color of ice and water
>>>>>> impacts temperature.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What you need:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2 thermometers
>>>>>> A photo of what sea ice and ocean look like from a satellite (like
>>>>>> this
>>>>>> one from the NASA Earth Observatory)
>>>>>> Tape
>>>>>> Watch or stopwatch
>>>>>> A lamp with a 75-100 watt incandescent bulb (or sunshine)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What you do:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Fix thermometers to the back of the picture using tape. One
>>>>>> thermometer
>>>>>> bulb should be under ice and the other under ocean. Place the
>>>>>> thermometers
>>>>>> so that when you lay the picture down on a table, they are right
>>>>>> side up
>>>>>> and can be read.
>>>>>> Place the light about a foot above the picture. Don’t turn it on yet!
>>>>>> Read the thermometers before the light is turned on.
>>>>>> Turn on their light and record the start time.
>>>>>> Read the temperature of both thermometers every two minutes. Which
>>>>>> warms
>>>>>> faster: the thermometer under white ice or the one under dark ocean?
>>>>>> Check out more icy science:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Types of Ice
>>>>>> Climate and Ice
>>>>>> Melting Arctic Sea Ice and Ocean Circulation
>>>>>> Compare Arctic Sea Ice Extent
>>>>>> A classroom version of the activity above: Looking into Surface
>>>>>> Albedo
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://scied.ucar.edu/learning-zone/climate-change-impacts/sea-ice-and-
>>>>>> heat-vicious-cycle
>>>>>
>>>>> Yebbut how do you explain the next Ice Age?
>>>>
>>>> **An ice age is ALWAYS preceded by falling temperatures.
>>>>
>>>> The average temperature of the planet is RISING.
>>>
>>> Yep, temperatures go up.. until suddenly they start going down.
>>
>> **What causes temperatures to go down?
>
> Solar cycle.. the same thing that makes them go up.

**I see. So, you may care to explain why, when the last couple of Solar
cycles have measured at historically low levels, the the warming on this
planet has INCREASED. Perhaps there are other factors which have
over-ridden the effects of the regular Solar cycle? Maybe CO2 levels,
for instance?

>
>>
>> . that's
>>> why it's called a 'cycle'
>>
>> **Here's the thing:
>>
>> There is insufficient data to suggest that these "cycles" you speak of
>> exist.
>
> Right, let's ignore all the overlapping and interlocked science that
> says the same thing and let's go with BS you pull out of thin air instead.
>
> Yea, according to Trevor the world has always been exactly the way it is
> today

**Keep lying you dumb shit-for-brains. I NEVER made such a claim. In
fact, I have presented clear, unequivocal evidence that this planet has
undergone significant climatic shifts.

and even though he can't prove it to the standards he demands of
> everyone else.. we're suppose to blindly accept this claims despite the
> fact he has absolutely no basis, education, experience, research or even
> experience in this area.

**Here's the thing Mr Shit-For-Brains: _I_ never made any claims. _I_
have always cited the best science available:

www.ipcc.ch

Read the IPCC reports, if you truly want to understand what the subject
entails. If you wish to remain in complete ignorance (which, I suspect,
you do), then don't read the IPCC reports.

>
> Yea.. somehow I find you a far less creditable source than all the
> massive amounts of data and resource by educated, trained and
> experiences people who you say haven't proven anything.

**You mean like the guys who work with:

www.ipcc.ch

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On 4/01/2023 12:17 am, Scout wrote:
>
>
> "Trevor Wilson" <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
> news:k1hc0vFojajU7@mid.individual.net...
>> On 3/01/2023 10:28 am, Rod Speed wrote:
>>> On Tue, 03 Jan 2023 06:10:06 +1100, Trevor Wilson
>>> <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 3/01/2023 3:40 am, Scout wrote:
>>>>>   "Trevor Wilson" <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
>>>>> news:k1ejvkFcpsqU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>> On 2/01/2023 8:47 am, KKKernal Corn wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sun, 1 Jan 2023 21:27:37 -0000 (UTC), Lars <lars@hotmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Melting sea ice has only a minor impact on sea level rise
>>>>>>>> because the ice
>>>>>>>> is already in the ocean, but it does cause major changes to the
>>>>>>>> planet.
>>>>>>>> When sea ice melts, more sunlight is absorbed by the Earth,
>>>>>>>> which causes
>>>>>>>> more warming.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It’s a vicious cycle.  And here’s how it works:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> When solar radiation hits snow and ice, approximately 90% of it is
>>>>>>>> reflected back out to space. As global warming causes more snow
>>>>>>>> and ice to
>>>>>>>> melt each summer, the ocean underneath the ice is exposed. The
>>>>>>>> dark color
>>>>>>>> of ocean absorbs more incoming solar radiation, reflecting less
>>>>>>>> back out
>>>>>>>> to space. In this way, melting ice causes more warming and so
>>>>>>>> more ice
>>>>>>>> melts. This is known as a feedback. According to a recent
>>>>>>>> scientific study
>>>>>>>> that used computer models to predict the future of Arctic sea
>>>>>>>> ice, there
>>>>>>>> may be no more sea ice left in the Arctic Ocean during summer
>>>>>>>> within the
>>>>>>>> next few decades
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You can make a simple model that shows how the color of ice and
>>>>>>>> water
>>>>>>>> impacts temperature.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What you need:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 2 thermometers
>>>>>>>> A photo of what sea ice and ocean look like from a satellite
>>>>>>>> (like this
>>>>>>>> one from the NASA Earth Observatory)
>>>>>>>> Tape
>>>>>>>> Watch or stopwatch
>>>>>>>> A lamp with a 75-100 watt incandescent bulb (or sunshine)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What you do:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Fix thermometers to the back of the picture using tape. One
>>>>>>>> thermometer
>>>>>>>> bulb should be under ice and the other under ocean. Place the
>>>>>>>> thermometers
>>>>>>>> so that when you lay the picture down on a table, they are right
>>>>>>>> side up
>>>>>>>> and can be read.
>>>>>>>> Place the light about a foot above the picture. Don’t turn it on
>>>>>>>> yet!
>>>>>>>> Read the thermometers before the light is turned on.
>>>>>>>> Turn on their light and record the start time.
>>>>>>>> Read the temperature of both thermometers every two minutes.
>>>>>>>> Which warms
>>>>>>>> faster: the thermometer under white ice or the one under dark
>>>>>>>> ocean?
>>>>>>>> Check out more icy science:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Types of Ice
>>>>>>>> Climate and Ice
>>>>>>>> Melting Arctic Sea Ice and Ocean Circulation
>>>>>>>> Compare Arctic Sea Ice Extent
>>>>>>>> A classroom version of the activity above: Looking into Surface
>>>>>>>> Albedo
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://scied.ucar.edu/learning-zone/climate-change-impacts/sea-ice-and-
>>>>>>>> heat-vicious-cycle
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yebbut how do you explain the next Ice Age?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> **An ice age is ALWAYS preceded by falling temperatures.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The average temperature of the planet is RISING.
>>>>>  Yep, temperatures go up.. until suddenly they start going down.
>>>
>>>> What causes temperatures to go down?
>>>
>>> We don't know, but we do know that they
>>> always did and produced a number ice ages.
>>
>> **Until you can explain why temperatures fell, you can't make any
>> predictions about an impending ice age.
>
> That's ok.. you've already proven that global warming is utterly natural
> and thus nothing we do can alter that.
>
> So let's fire up some power plants and let's heat Europe.
>
>

**And why would you want to heat Europe?

https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe/totally-insane-thousands-of-records-shattered-in-historic-winter-heat-20230103-p5ca5i.html

You're not a skier then?

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In alt.global-warming Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote:
> On 4/01/2023 12:24 am, Scout wrote:
>> "Trevor Wilson" <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
....
> **Nope. Cite your proof that I ever made such a claim.
> After all, you can't have anything else
>> when the temperatures are going up and according to you they have NEVER
>> declined.
> **Cite your proof that I ever made such a claim.
>> Since that 'proof' is good enough for your arguments.. it should be good
>> enough for his.
> **If you weren't lying through your dumb, American arsehole, then maybe.
> As it is, you are just another stupid liar.

"Scout" has made the mistake of thinking GW must be "always pushing
temperatures up".

It is of course perfectly correct that greenhouse warming is always occuring
and has always occured since the earth had any notable atmosphere.

Molecules with more than 2 atoms -- e.g. CO2, H2O, CH4, N2O -- have
vibrational modes that interact with infrared heat -- the kind of radiation
that comes up off the earth or ocean after it is hit by sunlight.

So with any kind of atm with greenhouse gases about 1/2 the heat that
comes up off the earth is reflected back down again by the greenhouse gases
(incl of course water vapor) in the atm.

At the Earth's distance from the sun if it were not for greenhouse gases
the global avg temp would have been around -10C to -20C for the past millions
of years. It's estimated with around 280ppmv of CO2 avg global temps have
run around 30C above what they would be otherwise.

I.e. "global warming" is always happening but for many 1000s of years
global temps remained around the same as seen in that treering plot I
showed before.

Truly, hillbillies have no talent at all for reasoning. Their
intuition is crap. They seem to alternate between making not-even-wrong
guesses and their strong suit of endless impotent squeaking they have
been caught pulling fake numbers and facts out of their nether regions.

--
In the coldest part of the last ice age, Earth's average temperature was
4.5??C below the 20th century norm. Let's call a 4.5??C
difference one "Ice Age unit."

[ascii version of graphic:]
temp time
<-- snowball Earth (-4 IAU)
-2 IAU
-1 IAU 20,000 years ago
0 average during modern times
+1 IAU earth in 86 years
+2 IAU cretaceous hothouse earth
+200m SLR

See: 4_5_degrees.png.

On 4/01/2023 12:19 am, Scout wrote:
>
>
> "Trevor Wilson" <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
> news:k1hj2gFqt1hU4@mid.individual.net...
>> On 3/01/2023 12:13 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
>>> On Tue, 03 Jan 2023 11:43:12 +1100, Trevor Wilson
>>> <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 3/01/2023 10:28 am, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, 03 Jan 2023 06:10:06 +1100, Trevor Wilson
>>>>> <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 3/01/2023 3:40 am, Scout wrote:
>>>>>>>   "Trevor Wilson" <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:k1ejvkFcpsqU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>>>> On 2/01/2023 8:47 am, KKKernal Corn wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 1 Jan 2023 21:27:37 -0000 (UTC), Lars <lars@hotmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Melting sea ice has only a minor impact on sea level rise
>>>>>>>>>> because the ice
>>>>>>>>>> is already in the ocean, but it does cause major changes to
>>>>>>>>>> the planet.
>>>>>>>>>> When sea ice melts, more sunlight is absorbed by the Earth,
>>>>>>>>>> which causes
>>>>>>>>>> more warming.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It’s a vicious cycle.  And here’s how it works:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> When solar radiation hits snow and ice, approximately 90% of
>>>>>>>>>> it is
>>>>>>>>>> reflected back out to space. As global warming causes more
>>>>>>>>>> snow and ice to
>>>>>>>>>> melt each summer, the ocean underneath the ice is exposed. The
>>>>>>>>>> dark color
>>>>>>>>>> of ocean absorbs more incoming solar radiation, reflecting
>>>>>>>>>> less back out
>>>>>>>>>> to space. In this way, melting ice causes more warming and so
>>>>>>>>>> more ice
>>>>>>>>>> melts. This is known as a feedback. According to a recent
>>>>>>>>>> scientific study
>>>>>>>>>> that used computer models to predict the future of Arctic sea
>>>>>>>>>> ice, there
>>>>>>>>>> may be no more sea ice left in the Arctic Ocean during summer
>>>>>>>>>> within the
>>>>>>>>>> next few decades
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You can make a simple model that shows how the color of ice
>>>>>>>>>> and water
>>>>>>>>>> impacts temperature.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> What you need:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 2 thermometers
>>>>>>>>>> A photo of what sea ice and ocean look like from a satellite
>>>>>>>>>> (like this
>>>>>>>>>> one from the NASA Earth Observatory)
>>>>>>>>>> Tape
>>>>>>>>>> Watch or stopwatch
>>>>>>>>>> A lamp with a 75-100 watt incandescent bulb (or sunshine)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> What you do:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Fix thermometers to the back of the picture using tape. One
>>>>>>>>>> thermometer
>>>>>>>>>> bulb should be under ice and the other under ocean. Place the
>>>>>>>>>> thermometers
>>>>>>>>>> so that when you lay the picture down on a table, they are
>>>>>>>>>> right side up
>>>>>>>>>> and can be read.
>>>>>>>>>> Place the light about a foot above the picture. Don’t turn it
>>>>>>>>>> on yet!
>>>>>>>>>> Read the thermometers before the light is turned on.
>>>>>>>>>> Turn on their light and record the start time.
>>>>>>>>>> Read the temperature of both thermometers every two minutes.
>>>>>>>>>> Which warms
>>>>>>>>>> faster: the thermometer under white ice or the one under dark
>>>>>>>>>> ocean?
>>>>>>>>>> Check out more icy science:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Types of Ice
>>>>>>>>>> Climate and Ice
>>>>>>>>>> Melting Arctic Sea Ice and Ocean Circulation
>>>>>>>>>> Compare Arctic Sea Ice Extent
>>>>>>>>>> A classroom version of the activity above: Looking into
>>>>>>>>>> Surface Albedo
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> https://scied.ucar.edu/learning-zone/climate-change-impacts/sea-ice-and-
>>>>>>>>>> heat-vicious-cycle
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yebbut how do you explain the next Ice Age?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> **An ice age is ALWAYS preceded by falling temperatures.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The average temperature of the planet is RISING.
>>>>>>>  Yep, temperatures go up.. until suddenly they start going down.
>>>>>
>>>>>> What causes temperatures to go down?
>>>>>  We don't know, but we do know that they
>>>>> always did and produced a number ice ages.
>>>
>>>> Until you can explain why temperatures fell, you can't make any
>>>> predictions about an impending ice age.
>>>
>>> ALL we need to know is that they did fall even when the
>>> CO2 level and temperatures were much higher than they
>>> are now and that they happened more than once.
>>
>> **Wrong. When CO2 levels were higher, so were temperatures.
>
> How do you know that?

**Proxy measurements, via ice cores:

https://www.bas.ac.uk/data/our-data/publication/ice-cores-and-climate-change/

Are you relying an the same people you just claim
> weren't creditable?

**I rely on the scientists who do ice core measurements.

>
> Further how do you know CO2 levels were higher?

**Ice core data.

I mean what made them go
> down?

**Dunno.

> if they are going to go down.. they wouldn’t they be doing so right now.

**Is that a question? CO2 levels aren't going down, because humans are
adding more CO2 into the atmosphere than natural processes can remove it.

>
> Your own arguments, BTW.

**Only in your drug and alcohol addled brain. You manufactured your own
strawman claims. You can burn them down.

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On 3/01/2023 8:41 pm, Joe wrote:
> On Tue, 3 Jan 2023 19:43:29 +1100
> Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote:
>
>
> Can't either of you idiots trim?

**Another denier moron steps up.

>
>>>
>>>>>> * I said that an ice age is impossible, whilst temperatures are
>>>>>> rising.
>>>
>>>>>  And stupidly claimed that temperatures will continue to rise.
>>>
>>>> And, unless CO2 emissions are reduced and CO2 extractedfrom the
>>>> atmosphere, that is precisely what will happen.
>>>
>>> How odd that it didn't when the CO2 and temperatures were
>>> much higher than they are now when CO2 emissions were
>>> not reduced and CO2 was not extracted from the  atmosphere,
>>
>> **When were CO2 levels and temperatures higher than today?
>>
>>>
>>>> It's basic science.
>>>
>>> So is the fact that that didn't when the CO2 and temperatures
>>> were much higher than they are now when CO2 emissions were
>>> not reduced and CO2 was not extracted from the  atmosphere,
>>
>> **When were CO2 levels and temperatures higher than today?
>>
>
> https://helios-i.mashable.com/imagery/articles/04ydR8YmP8QDFQwmtJRGnyU/images-6.fill.size_2000x1820.v1623362063.png
>
> The positive feedback element of the global warming *hypothesis*, not
> theory, was discredited along with the hockey stick, which was simply a
> graphical representation of it. This graph kills it by itself.
> Actually, a simple consideration of the fact that there's life on Earth
> discredits it.

**Nonsense.

>
> According to ice core data, temperature rises *precede* rises in carbon
> dioxide, not the other way around. Of course, that's never mentioned
> today.

**More lies, dressed as nonsense. The true facts are more prosaic. Ice
core data tells us that sometimes, temperature rise precedes CO2 rise
and sometimes it lags. I suggest you study the data CAREFULLY.

RIGHT NOW, we are experiencing a period where CO2 rise is leading
temperature rise. I expect that may change when CO2 levels reach
approximately 500ppm. At that point, we will see an increase in CO2
levels (and methane levels), as the gases are released from oceans and
Arctic regions. Then, of course, temperature levels will increase
further. Then CO2/methane levels and process repeats.

>
> Oh, and track down the so-called 'Climategate' emails, they must still
> be on the Net somewhere, and see for yourself how honest the prophets
> of global warming were.

**Not interested in out of context, stolen emails. I am much more
interested in this kind of thing:

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/exxon-knew-about-climate-change-almost-40-years-ago/

And:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/10/climate/nyt-climate-newsletter-cei.html

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On 4/01/2023 4:29 am, Rod Speed wrote:
> On Tue, 03 Jan 2023 19:43:29 +1100, Trevor Wilson
> <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote:
>
>> On 3/01/2023 5:22 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
>>> On Tue, 03 Jan 2023 15:36:59 +1100, Trevor Wilson
>>> <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 3/01/2023 3:15 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, 03 Jan 2023 13:22:40 +1100, Trevor Wilson
>>>>> <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 3/01/2023 12:20 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>>> On Tue, 03 Jan 2023 11:52:02 +1100, Trevor Wilson
>>>>>>> <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 3/01/2023 10:42 am, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 03 Jan 2023 06:21:16 +1100, Trevor Wilson
>>>>>>>>> <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 3/01/2023 3:19 am, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 02 Jan 2023 20:32:21 +1100, Trevor Wilson
>>>>>>>>>>> <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/01/2023 7:40 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 02 Jan 2023 15:29:58 +1100, Trevor Wilson
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/01/2023 12:49 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 02 Jan 2023 11:44:04 +1100, Trevor Wilson
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/01/2023 11:19 am, KKKernal Corn wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 2 Jan 2023 10:40:35 +1100, Trevor Wilson
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/01/2023 8:47 am, KKKernal Corn wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 1 Jan 2023 21:27:37 -0000 (UTC), Lars
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <lars@hotmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Melting sea ice has only a minor impact on sea level
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rise because the ice
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is already in the ocean, but it does cause major
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> changes to the planet.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When sea ice melts, more sunlight is absorbed by the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Earth, which causes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more warming.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It’s a vicious cycle.  And here’s how it works:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When solar radiation hits snow and ice,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> approximately 90% of it is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reflected back out to space. As global warming
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> causes more snow and ice to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> melt each summer, the ocean underneath the ice is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> exposed. The dark color
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of ocean absorbs more incoming solar radiation,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reflecting less back out
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to space. In this way, melting ice causes more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> warming and so more ice
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> melts. This is known as a feedback. According to a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> recent scientific study
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that used computer models to predict the future of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Arctic sea ice, there
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> may be no more sea ice left in the Arctic Ocean
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> during summer within the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> next few decades
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You can make a simple model that shows how the color
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of ice and water
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impacts temperature.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What you need:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2 thermometers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A photo of what sea ice and ocean look like from a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> satellite (like this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one from the NASA Earth Observatory)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tape
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Watch or stopwatch
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A lamp with a 75-100 watt incandescent bulb (or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sunshine)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What you do:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fix thermometers to the back of the picture using
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tape. One thermometer
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bulb should be under ice and the other under ocean.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Place the thermometers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so that when you lay the picture down on a table,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they are right side up
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and can be read.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Place the light about a foot above the picture.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Don’t turn it on yet!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Read the thermometers before the light is turned on.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Turn on their light and record the start time.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Read the temperature of both thermometers every two
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> minutes. Which warms
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> faster: the thermometer under white ice or the one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> under dark ocean?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Check out more icy science:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Types of Ice
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Climate and Ice
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Melting Arctic Sea Ice and Ocean Circulation
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Compare Arctic Sea Ice Extent
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A classroom version of the activity above: Looking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> into Surface Albedo
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://scied.ucar.edu/learning-zone/climate-change-impacts/sea-ice-and-
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> heat-vicious-cycle
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yebbut how do you explain the next Ice Age?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> **An ice age is ALWAYS preceded by falling temperatures.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The average temperature of the planet is RISING.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Therefore, we cannot expect to see an ice age anytime
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> soon.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  But there will eventually BE one.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There MIGHT be an ice age. Or not.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  You quite sure you aint one of those rocket scientist
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fellas ?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All present evidence suggests that there is no ice age
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in our future.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  That's just waffle. We don't actually know what
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> produces ice ages
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bullshit. We know EXACTLY what causes an ice age - FALLING
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> temperatures and falling CO2 levels.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  That's not the cause, that's the RESULT, fuckwit.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Prove it.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>  Too obvious to need proving, fuckwit.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>  Whatever produces an ice age cools things down
>>>>>>>>>>> initially only reducing temperatures, and eventually
>>>>>>>>>>> that sees fucking great sheets of ice, stupid.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> What causes an ice age?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  We don't know. But we do know that they have happened.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Then you need to explain why ice ages occur, if we are to accept
>>>>>>>> your claim that an ice age is impending.
>>>>>>>  I never said that one is impending. I JUST rubbed your
>>>>>>> nose in the fact that your proclaimation that we will
>>>>>>> never see another is just another of your terminal stupiditys
>>>>>>> given that we have seen ice ages when the CO2 level and
>>>>>>> temperatures have been much higher than they are now.
>>>>>
>>>>>> * I NEVER said that we will never see another ice age. Not once.
>>>>>  Yes you did.
>>>
>>>> Cite here:
>>>  You just did that yourself with your stupid claim that once
>>> the CO2 gets to 500ppm, temperatures wlll never drop again.
>>>
>>>>>> * I said that an ice age is impossible, whilst temperatures are
>>>>>> rising.
>>>
>>>>>  And stupidly claimed that temperatures will continue to rise.
>>>
>>>> And, unless CO2 emissions are reduced and CO2 extractedfrom the
>>>> atmosphere, that is precisely what will happen.
>
>>>  How odd that it didn't when the CO2 and temperatures were
>>> much higher than they are now when CO2 emissions were
>>> not reduced and CO2 was not extracted from the  atmosphere,
>
>> When were CO2 levels and temperatures higher than today?
>
> Yep, the temperatures dropped and eventually we saw ice ages.

On Wed, 4 Jan 2023 06:04:49 +1100, Trevor Wilson
<trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote:

>On 3/01/2023 8:41 pm, Joe wrote:
>> On Tue, 3 Jan 2023 19:43:29 +1100
>> Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Can't either of you idiots trim?
>
>**Another denier moron steps up.
>
Yes you are a moron loves eating mediea chook food.
>>
>>>>
>>>>>>> * I said that an ice age is impossible, whilst temperatures are
>>>>>>> rising.
>>>>
>>>>>>  And stupidly claimed that temperatures will continue to rise.
>>>>
>>>>> And, unless CO2 emissions are reduced and CO2 extractedfrom the
>>>>> atmosphere, that is precisely what will happen.
>>>>
>>>> How odd that it didn't when the CO2 and temperatures were
>>>> much higher than they are now when CO2 emissions were
>>>> not reduced and CO2 was not extracted from the  atmosphere,
>>>
>>> **When were CO2 levels and temperatures higher than today?
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> It's basic science.
>>>>
>>>> So is the fact that that didn't when the CO2 and temperatures
>>>> were much higher than they are now when CO2 emissions were
>>>> not reduced and CO2 was not extracted from the  atmosphere,
>>>
>>> **When were CO2 levels and temperatures higher than today?
>>>
>>
>> https://helios-i.mashable.com/imagery/articles/04ydR8YmP8QDFQwmtJRGnyU/images-6.fill.size_2000x1820.v1623362063.png
>>
>> The positive feedback element of the global warming *hypothesis*, not
>> theory, was discredited along with the hockey stick, which was simply a
>> graphical representation of it. This graph kills it by itself.
>> Actually, a simple consideration of the fact that there's life on Earth
>> discredits it.
>
>**Nonsense.
>
Reality
>>
>> According to ice core data, temperature rises *precede* rises in carbon
>> dioxide, not the other way around. Of course, that's never mentioned
>> today.
>
>**More lies, dressed as nonsense. The true facts are more prosaic. Ice
>core data tells us that sometimes, temperature rise precedes CO2 rise
>and sometimes it lags. I suggest you study the data CAREFULLY.
>
>RIGHT NOW, we are experiencing a period where CO2 rise is leading
>temperature rise. I expect that may change when CO2 levels reach
>approximately 500ppm. At that point, we will see an increase in CO2
>levels (and methane levels), as the gases are released from oceans and
>Arctic regions. Then, of course, temperature levels will increase
>further. Then CO2/methane levels and process repeats.
>
>>
>> Oh, and track down the so-called 'Climategate' emails, they must still
>> be on the Net somewhere, and see for yourself how honest the prophets
>> of global warming were.
>
>**Not interested in out of context, stolen emails. I am much more
>interested in this kind of thing:
>
>https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/exxon-knew-about-climate-change-almost-40-years-ago/
>
>And:
>
>https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/10/climate/nyt-climate-newsletter-cei.html

Trevor understands nothing just likes eating media chook food!
--
Petzl
The land of the "FREE"
** ballot harvesting
** late-night ballot drops
** massive ballot trafficking
** blocking GOP observers from the counting rooms
** only hiring Democrats to count votes
** ignoring chain of custody laws
** weak Republican lawmakers
** corrupted ballot-counting machines
** Destroying the evidence
** bloated voter rolls

These factors resulted in millions of
fraudulent votes in the 2020 election.

"Trevor Wilson" <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
news:k1jbouF4r3kU4@mid.individual.net...
> On 4/01/2023 12:17 am, Scout wrote:
>>
>>
>> "Trevor Wilson" <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
>> news:k1hc0vFojajU7@mid.individual.net...
>>> On 3/01/2023 10:28 am, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 03 Jan 2023 06:10:06 +1100, Trevor Wilson
>>>> <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 3/01/2023 3:40 am, Scout wrote:
>>>>>> "Trevor Wilson" <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:k1ejvkFcpsqU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>>> On 2/01/2023 8:47 am, KKKernal Corn wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sun, 1 Jan 2023 21:27:37 -0000 (UTC), Lars <lars@hotmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Melting sea ice has only a minor impact on sea level rise because
>>>>>>>>> the ice
>>>>>>>>> is already in the ocean, but it does cause major changes to the
>>>>>>>>> planet.
>>>>>>>>> When sea ice melts, more sunlight is absorbed by the Earth, which
>>>>>>>>> causes
>>>>>>>>> more warming.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It’s a vicious cycle. And here’s how it works:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> When solar radiation hits snow and ice, approximately 90% of it is
>>>>>>>>> reflected back out to space. As global warming causes more snow
>>>>>>>>> and ice to
>>>>>>>>> melt each summer, the ocean underneath the ice is exposed. The
>>>>>>>>> dark color
>>>>>>>>> of ocean absorbs more incoming solar radiation, reflecting less
>>>>>>>>> back out
>>>>>>>>> to space. In this way, melting ice causes more warming and so more
>>>>>>>>> ice
>>>>>>>>> melts. This is known as a feedback. According to a recent
>>>>>>>>> scientific study
>>>>>>>>> that used computer models to predict the future of Arctic sea ice,
>>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>>> may be no more sea ice left in the Arctic Ocean during summer
>>>>>>>>> within the
>>>>>>>>> next few decades
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You can make a simple model that shows how the color of ice and
>>>>>>>>> water
>>>>>>>>> impacts temperature.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> What you need:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 2 thermometers
>>>>>>>>> A photo of what sea ice and ocean look like from a satellite (like
>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>> one from the NASA Earth Observatory)
>>>>>>>>> Tape
>>>>>>>>> Watch or stopwatch
>>>>>>>>> A lamp with a 75-100 watt incandescent bulb (or sunshine)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> What you do:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Fix thermometers to the back of the picture using tape. One
>>>>>>>>> thermometer
>>>>>>>>> bulb should be under ice and the other under ocean. Place the
>>>>>>>>> thermometers
>>>>>>>>> so that when you lay the picture down on a table, they are right
>>>>>>>>> side up
>>>>>>>>> and can be read.
>>>>>>>>> Place the light about a foot above the picture. Don’t turn it on
>>>>>>>>> yet!
>>>>>>>>> Read the thermometers before the light is turned on.
>>>>>>>>> Turn on their light and record the start time.
>>>>>>>>> Read the temperature of both thermometers every two minutes. Which
>>>>>>>>> warms
>>>>>>>>> faster: the thermometer under white ice or the one under dark
>>>>>>>>> ocean?
>>>>>>>>> Check out more icy science:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Types of Ice
>>>>>>>>> Climate and Ice
>>>>>>>>> Melting Arctic Sea Ice and Ocean Circulation
>>>>>>>>> Compare Arctic Sea Ice Extent
>>>>>>>>> A classroom version of the activity above: Looking into Surface
>>>>>>>>> Albedo
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://scied.ucar.edu/learning-zone/climate-change-impacts/sea-ice-and-
>>>>>>>>> heat-vicious-cycle
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yebbut how do you explain the next Ice Age?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> **An ice age is ALWAYS preceded by falling temperatures.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The average temperature of the planet is RISING.
>>>>>> Yep, temperatures go up.. until suddenly they start going down.
>>>>
>>>>> What causes temperatures to go down?
>>>>
>>>> We don't know, but we do know that they
>>>> always did and produced a number ice ages.
>>>
>>> **Until you can explain why temperatures fell, you can't make any
>>> predictions about an impending ice age.
>>
>> That's ok.. you've already proven that global warming is utterly natural
>> and thus nothing we do can alter that.
>>
>> So let's fire up some power plants and let's heat Europe.
>>
>>
>
> **And why would you want to heat Europe?
>
> https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe/totally-insane-thousands-of-records-shattered-in-historic-winter-heat-20230103-p5ca5i.html
>
> You're not a skier then?

Remind me to lock you into a freezer.. in 48 hours we'll see if 20F is warm
enough for you or if you've turned into an ice statute.

"Trevor Wilson" <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
news:k1jc09F4r3kU5@mid.individual.net...
> On 4/01/2023 12:19 am, Scout wrote:
>>
>>
>> "Trevor Wilson" <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
>> news:k1hj2gFqt1hU4@mid.individual.net...
>>> On 3/01/2023 12:13 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 03 Jan 2023 11:43:12 +1100, Trevor Wilson
>>>> <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 3/01/2023 10:28 am, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>> On Tue, 03 Jan 2023 06:10:06 +1100, Trevor Wilson
>>>>>> <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 3/01/2023 3:40 am, Scout wrote:
>>>>>>>> "Trevor Wilson" <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:k1ejvkFcpsqU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>>>>> On 2/01/2023 8:47 am, KKKernal Corn wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 1 Jan 2023 21:27:37 -0000 (UTC), Lars <lars@hotmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Melting sea ice has only a minor impact on sea level rise
>>>>>>>>>>> because the ice
>>>>>>>>>>> is already in the ocean, but it does cause major changes to the
>>>>>>>>>>> planet.
>>>>>>>>>>> When sea ice melts, more sunlight is absorbed by the Earth,
>>>>>>>>>>> which causes
>>>>>>>>>>> more warming.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> It’s a vicious cycle. And here’s how it works:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> When solar radiation hits snow and ice, approximately 90% of it
>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>> reflected back out to space. As global warming causes more snow
>>>>>>>>>>> and ice to
>>>>>>>>>>> melt each summer, the ocean underneath the ice is exposed. The
>>>>>>>>>>> dark color
>>>>>>>>>>> of ocean absorbs more incoming solar radiation, reflecting less
>>>>>>>>>>> back out
>>>>>>>>>>> to space. In this way, melting ice causes more warming and so
>>>>>>>>>>> more ice
>>>>>>>>>>> melts. This is known as a feedback. According to a recent
>>>>>>>>>>> scientific study
>>>>>>>>>>> that used computer models to predict the future of Arctic sea
>>>>>>>>>>> ice, there
>>>>>>>>>>> may be no more sea ice left in the Arctic Ocean during summer
>>>>>>>>>>> within the
>>>>>>>>>>> next few decades
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> You can make a simple model that shows how the color of ice and
>>>>>>>>>>> water
>>>>>>>>>>> impacts temperature.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> What you need:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> 2 thermometers
>>>>>>>>>>> A photo of what sea ice and ocean look like from a satellite
>>>>>>>>>>> (like this
>>>>>>>>>>> one from the NASA Earth Observatory)
>>>>>>>>>>> Tape
>>>>>>>>>>> Watch or stopwatch
>>>>>>>>>>> A lamp with a 75-100 watt incandescent bulb (or sunshine)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> What you do:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Fix thermometers to the back of the picture using tape. One
>>>>>>>>>>> thermometer
>>>>>>>>>>> bulb should be under ice and the other under ocean. Place the
>>>>>>>>>>> thermometers
>>>>>>>>>>> so that when you lay the picture down on a table, they are right
>>>>>>>>>>> side up
>>>>>>>>>>> and can be read.
>>>>>>>>>>> Place the light about a foot above the picture. Don’t turn it on
>>>>>>>>>>> yet!
>>>>>>>>>>> Read the thermometers before the light is turned on.
>>>>>>>>>>> Turn on their light and record the start time.
>>>>>>>>>>> Read the temperature of both thermometers every two minutes.
>>>>>>>>>>> Which warms
>>>>>>>>>>> faster: the thermometer under white ice or the one under dark
>>>>>>>>>>> ocean?
>>>>>>>>>>> Check out more icy science:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Types of Ice
>>>>>>>>>>> Climate and Ice
>>>>>>>>>>> Melting Arctic Sea Ice and Ocean Circulation
>>>>>>>>>>> Compare Arctic Sea Ice Extent
>>>>>>>>>>> A classroom version of the activity above: Looking into Surface
>>>>>>>>>>> Albedo
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> https://scied.ucar.edu/learning-zone/climate-change-impacts/sea-ice-and-
>>>>>>>>>>> heat-vicious-cycle
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Yebbut how do you explain the next Ice Age?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> **An ice age is ALWAYS preceded by falling temperatures.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The average temperature of the planet is RISING.
>>>>>>>> Yep, temperatures go up.. until suddenly they start going down.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What causes temperatures to go down?
>>>>>> We don't know, but we do know that they
>>>>>> always did and produced a number ice ages.
>>>>
>>>>> Until you can explain why temperatures fell, you can't make any
>>>>> predictions about an impending ice age.
>>>>
>>>> ALL we need to know is that they did fall even when the
>>>> CO2 level and temperatures were much higher than they
>>>> are now and that they happened more than once.
>>>
>>> **Wrong. When CO2 levels were higher, so were temperatures.
>>
>> How do you know that?
>
> **Proxy measurements, via ice cores:
>
> https://www.bas.ac.uk/data/our-data/publication/ice-cores-and-climate-change/

Which you tell us isn't adequate proof.... After all the same ice cores are
used to show glaciation has occurred.

So you can't have it both ways.. either they are proof or they aren't/

"Trevor Wilson" <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
news:k1jb0eF4r3kU1@mid.individual.net...
> On 4/01/2023 12:24 am, Scout wrote:
>>
>>
>> "Trevor Wilson" <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
>> news:k1h282FojajU1@mid.individual.net...
>>> On 3/01/2023 8:37 am, Petzl wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 2 Jan 2023 21:17:27 -0000 (UTC), R Kym Horsell
>>>> <kym@kymhorsell.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In alt.global-warming Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote:
>>>>> ...
>>>>>>> Actually they are already calling for the next glacial period.
>>>>>> **Are 'they'?
>>>>>> Who is 'they'?
>>>>>> When will this 'next glacial period' occur?
>>>>>> How will this 'next glacial period occur' whilst temperatures are
>>>>>> rising?
>>>>> ...
>>>>>
>>>>> As you say somewhere else, the earth was headed back into the next
>>>>> glacial cycle until something happened in the 19th cent.
>>>>> That something seemed to put carbon into the atm with zero C14, low
>>>>> C13
>>>>> isotopes. I.e. something that had been out of contact with the
>>>>> biosphere
>>>>> for millions of years yet had once been alive. The decline in C14 and
>>>>> C13
>>>>> we see in atm CO2 and CH4 exactly seems to match the amount of fossil
>>>>> fuels we have been burning -- now ~10 GtC per year.
>>>>>
>>>>> Among many kinds of evidence we've gathered since the greenhouse
>>>>> effect
>>>>> was discovered 200y ago, are changes to global tree ring spacing over
>>>>> the
>>>>> past 5000y.
>>>>>
>>>>> I assembled the available datasets and did some corrections for
>>>>> various biases (e.g. some datasets run for only certain years and they
>>>>> all come from different latitudes and species of trees).
>>>>>
>>>>> Here is the summary plot:
>>>>> <http://kym.massbus.org/ecology/treeringshomog.gif>
>>>>>
>>>>> The "raw data" that are so beloved by hillbillies that dont like
>>>>> "messin widda nummas" looks much the same but more:
>>>>>
>>>>> <http://kym.massbus.org/ecology/treerings.gif>
>>>>>
>>>> Then there is the REAL reson for this global warming scam.
>>>
>>> **"Scam"?
>>>
>>> Prove that global warming is a "scam".
>>>
>>>
>>> Present your scientific evidence here:
>>
>> Easy. You are the proof.... according to you global warming is occurring
>> and has always been occurring.
>
> **Nope. Cite your proof that I ever made such a claim.
>
>
> After all, you can't have anything else
>> when the temperatures are going up and according to you they have NEVER
>> declined.
>
> **Cite your proof that I ever made such a claim.

You're the one claiming that temperature only increases....

>
>>
>> Since that 'proof' is good enough for your arguments.. it should be good
>> enough for his.
>
> **If you weren't lying through your dumb, American arsehole, then maybe.
> As it is, you are just another stupid liar.

Well, you've already shown yourself to a stupid liar..

"Trevor Wilson" <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
news:k1jb5vF4r3kU2@mid.individual.net...
> On 4/01/2023 12:21 am, Scout wrote:
>>
>>
>> "Trevor Wilson" <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
>> news:k1gob3Fn22sU2@mid.individual.net...
>>> On 3/01/2023 3:41 am, Scout wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "KKKernal Corn" <vet@invalid.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:im84rhh7fv3vigtgplrbfnb84b1159b84f@4ax.com...
>>>>> On Mon, 2 Jan 2023 10:40:35 +1100, Trevor Wilson
>>>>> <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2/01/2023 8:47 am, KKKernal Corn wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sun, 1 Jan 2023 21:27:37 -0000 (UTC), Lars <lars@hotmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Melting sea ice has only a minor impact on sea level rise because
>>>>>>>> the ice
>>>>>>>> is already in the ocean, but it does cause major changes to the
>>>>>>>> planet.
>>>>>>>> When sea ice melts, more sunlight is absorbed by the Earth, which
>>>>>>>> causes
>>>>>>>> more warming.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It's a vicious cycle. And here's how it works:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> When solar radiation hits snow and ice, approximately 90% of it is
>>>>>>>> reflected back out to space. As global warming causes more snow and
>>>>>>>> ice to
>>>>>>>> melt each summer, the ocean underneath the ice is exposed. The dark
>>>>>>>> color
>>>>>>>> of ocean absorbs more incoming solar radiation, reflecting less
>>>>>>>> back out
>>>>>>>> to space. In this way, melting ice causes more warming and so more
>>>>>>>> ice
>>>>>>>> melts. This is known as a feedback. According to a recent
>>>>>>>> scientific study
>>>>>>>> that used computer models to predict the future of Arctic sea ice,
>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>> may be no more sea ice left in the Arctic Ocean during summer
>>>>>>>> within the
>>>>>>>> next few decades
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You can make a simple model that shows how the color of ice and
>>>>>>>> water
>>>>>>>> impacts temperature.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What you need:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 2 thermometers
>>>>>>>> A photo of what sea ice and ocean look like from a satellite (like
>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>> one from the NASA Earth Observatory)
>>>>>>>> Tape
>>>>>>>> Watch or stopwatch
>>>>>>>> A lamp with a 75-100 watt incandescent bulb (or sunshine)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What you do:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Fix thermometers to the back of the picture using tape. One
>>>>>>>> thermometer
>>>>>>>> bulb should be under ice and the other under ocean. Place the
>>>>>>>> thermometers
>>>>>>>> so that when you lay the picture down on a table, they are right
>>>>>>>> side up
>>>>>>>> and can be read.
>>>>>>>> Place the light about a foot above the picture. Don't turn it on
>>>>>>>> yet!
>>>>>>>> Read the thermometers before the light is turned on.
>>>>>>>> Turn on their light and record the start time.
>>>>>>>> Read the temperature of both thermometers every two minutes. Which
>>>>>>>> warms
>>>>>>>> faster: the thermometer under white ice or the one under dark
>>>>>>>> ocean?
>>>>>>>> Check out more icy science:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Types of Ice
>>>>>>>> Climate and Ice
>>>>>>>> Melting Arctic Sea Ice and Ocean Circulation
>>>>>>>> Compare Arctic Sea Ice Extent
>>>>>>>> A classroom version of the activity above: Looking into Surface
>>>>>>>> Albedo
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://scied.ucar.edu/learning-zone/climate-change-impacts/sea-ice-and-
>>>>>>>> heat-vicious-cycle
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yebbut how do you explain the next Ice Age?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> **An ice age is ALWAYS preceded by falling temperatures.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The average temperature of the planet is RISING.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Therefore, we cannot expect to see an ice age anytime soon.
>>>>>
>>>>> But there will eventually BE one.
>>>>
>>>> Actually looking at the historical record.. the next glacial period can
>>>> be expected at any time.. indeed.. global warming could be the trigger
>>>> for a glacial period.
>>>
>>> **Nonsense. You can't have a glaciation, whilst temperatures are rising.
>>
>> Where did I ever suggest otherwise?
>
> **I have no idea if you suggested otherwise. I was responding to Rod
> Speed's idiocy. Not your idiocy. That was elsewhere in the thread.

The only idiocy on display is yours.

Now consider.. each year the arctic drops to about -25F.... and later rises
to about 30F..

Are you going to claim that in march the Arctic isn't still a froze waste
land because the temperature has risen to -20F?

Do you take classes to be this stupid or is that God-given stupidity?

And there is glaciation in the arctic and it exists year round..
temperatures go up.. they go down.. and the glaciers are still there.

I might think Rudy is impersonating you, but I don’t think even Rudy is as
stupid as what it showing up from you.

"Trevor Wilson" <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
news:k1jbmiF4r3kU3@mid.individual.net...
> On 4/01/2023 12:12 am, Scout wrote:
>>
>>
>> "Trevor Wilson" <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
>> news:k1gogdFn22sU3@mid.individual.net...
>>> On 3/01/2023 3:40 am, Scout wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Trevor Wilson" <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
>>>> news:k1ejvkFcpsqU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>> On 2/01/2023 8:47 am, KKKernal Corn wrote:
>>>>>> On Sun, 1 Jan 2023 21:27:37 -0000 (UTC), Lars <lars@hotmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Melting sea ice has only a minor impact on sea level rise because
>>>>>>> the ice
>>>>>>> is already in the ocean, but it does cause major changes to the
>>>>>>> planet.
>>>>>>> When sea ice melts, more sunlight is absorbed by the Earth, which
>>>>>>> causes
>>>>>>> more warming.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It’s a vicious cycle. And here’s how it works:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> When solar radiation hits snow and ice, approximately 90% of it is
>>>>>>> reflected back out to space. As global warming causes more snow and
>>>>>>> ice to
>>>>>>> melt each summer, the ocean underneath the ice is exposed. The dark
>>>>>>> color
>>>>>>> of ocean absorbs more incoming solar radiation, reflecting less back
>>>>>>> out
>>>>>>> to space. In this way, melting ice causes more warming and so more
>>>>>>> ice
>>>>>>> melts. This is known as a feedback. According to a recent scientific
>>>>>>> study
>>>>>>> that used computer models to predict the future of Arctic sea ice,
>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>> may be no more sea ice left in the Arctic Ocean during summer within
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> next few decades
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You can make a simple model that shows how the color of ice and
>>>>>>> water
>>>>>>> impacts temperature.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What you need:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2 thermometers
>>>>>>> A photo of what sea ice and ocean look like from a satellite (like
>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>> one from the NASA Earth Observatory)
>>>>>>> Tape
>>>>>>> Watch or stopwatch
>>>>>>> A lamp with a 75-100 watt incandescent bulb (or sunshine)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What you do:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Fix thermometers to the back of the picture using tape. One
>>>>>>> thermometer
>>>>>>> bulb should be under ice and the other under ocean. Place the
>>>>>>> thermometers
>>>>>>> so that when you lay the picture down on a table, they are right
>>>>>>> side up
>>>>>>> and can be read.
>>>>>>> Place the light about a foot above the picture. Don’t turn it on
>>>>>>> yet!
>>>>>>> Read the thermometers before the light is turned on.
>>>>>>> Turn on their light and record the start time.
>>>>>>> Read the temperature of both thermometers every two minutes. Which
>>>>>>> warms
>>>>>>> faster: the thermometer under white ice or the one under dark ocean?
>>>>>>> Check out more icy science:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Types of Ice
>>>>>>> Climate and Ice
>>>>>>> Melting Arctic Sea Ice and Ocean Circulation
>>>>>>> Compare Arctic Sea Ice Extent
>>>>>>> A classroom version of the activity above: Looking into Surface
>>>>>>> Albedo
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://scied.ucar.edu/learning-zone/climate-change-impacts/sea-ice-and-
>>>>>>> heat-vicious-cycle
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yebbut how do you explain the next Ice Age?
>>>>>
>>>>> **An ice age is ALWAYS preceded by falling temperatures.
>>>>>
>>>>> The average temperature of the planet is RISING.
>>>>
>>>> Yep, temperatures go up.. until suddenly they start going down.
>>>
>>> **What causes temperatures to go down?
>>
>> Solar cycle.. the same thing that makes them go up.
>
> **I see. So, you may care to explain why, when the last couple of Solar
> cycles have measured at historically low levels, the the warming on this
> planet has INCREASED. Perhaps there are other factors which have
> over-ridden the effects of the regular Solar cycle? Maybe CO2 levels, for
> instance?

We only know about the short term cycle and we suspect one longer cycle..
Who knows what other harmonics exist.. after all something is causing the
Earth to heat and cool... and if it's not the sun, then you are alone in
that belief.

On Wed, 4 Jan 2023 05:55:06 +1100, Trevor Wilson
<trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote:

>On 4/01/2023 12:19 am, Scout wrote:
>>
>>
>> "Trevor Wilson" <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
>> news:k1hj2gFqt1hU4@mid.individual.net...
>>> On 3/01/2023 12:13 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 03 Jan 2023 11:43:12 +1100, Trevor Wilson
>>>> <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 3/01/2023 10:28 am, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>> On Tue, 03 Jan 2023 06:10:06 +1100, Trevor Wilson
>>>>>> <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 3/01/2023 3:40 am, Scout wrote:
>>>>>>>>   "Trevor Wilson" <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:k1ejvkFcpsqU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>>>>> On 2/01/2023 8:47 am, KKKernal Corn wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 1 Jan 2023 21:27:37 -0000 (UTC), Lars <lars@hotmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Melting sea ice has only a minor impact on sea level rise
>>>>>>>>>>> because the ice
>>>>>>>>>>> is already in the ocean, but it does cause major changes to
>>>>>>>>>>> the planet.
>>>>>>>>>>> When sea ice melts, more sunlight is absorbed by the Earth,
>>>>>>>>>>> which causes
>>>>>>>>>>> more warming.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> It’s a vicious cycle.  And here’s how it works:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> When solar radiation hits snow and ice, approximately 90% of
>>>>>>>>>>> it is
>>>>>>>>>>> reflected back out to space. As global warming causes more
>>>>>>>>>>> snow and ice to
>>>>>>>>>>> melt each summer, the ocean underneath the ice is exposed. The
>>>>>>>>>>> dark color
>>>>>>>>>>> of ocean absorbs more incoming solar radiation, reflecting
>>>>>>>>>>> less back out
>>>>>>>>>>> to space. In this way, melting ice causes more warming and so
>>>>>>>>>>> more ice
>>>>>>>>>>> melts. This is known as a feedback. According to a recent
>>>>>>>>>>> scientific study
>>>>>>>>>>> that used computer models to predict the future of Arctic sea
>>>>>>>>>>> ice, there
>>>>>>>>>>> may be no more sea ice left in the Arctic Ocean during summer
>>>>>>>>>>> within the
>>>>>>>>>>> next few decades
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> You can make a simple model that shows how the color of ice
>>>>>>>>>>> and water
>>>>>>>>>>> impacts temperature.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> What you need:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> 2 thermometers
>>>>>>>>>>> A photo of what sea ice and ocean look like from a satellite
>>>>>>>>>>> (like this
>>>>>>>>>>> one from the NASA Earth Observatory)
>>>>>>>>>>> Tape
>>>>>>>>>>> Watch or stopwatch
>>>>>>>>>>> A lamp with a 75-100 watt incandescent bulb (or sunshine)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> What you do:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Fix thermometers to the back of the picture using tape. One
>>>>>>>>>>> thermometer
>>>>>>>>>>> bulb should be under ice and the other under ocean. Place the
>>>>>>>>>>> thermometers
>>>>>>>>>>> so that when you lay the picture down on a table, they are
>>>>>>>>>>> right side up
>>>>>>>>>>> and can be read.
>>>>>>>>>>> Place the light about a foot above the picture. Don’t turn it
>>>>>>>>>>> on yet!
>>>>>>>>>>> Read the thermometers before the light is turned on.
>>>>>>>>>>> Turn on their light and record the start time.
>>>>>>>>>>> Read the temperature of both thermometers every two minutes.
>>>>>>>>>>> Which warms
>>>>>>>>>>> faster: the thermometer under white ice or the one under dark
>>>>>>>>>>> ocean?
>>>>>>>>>>> Check out more icy science:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Types of Ice
>>>>>>>>>>> Climate and Ice
>>>>>>>>>>> Melting Arctic Sea Ice and Ocean Circulation
>>>>>>>>>>> Compare Arctic Sea Ice Extent
>>>>>>>>>>> A classroom version of the activity above: Looking into
>>>>>>>>>>> Surface Albedo
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> https://scied.ucar.edu/learning-zone/climate-change-impacts/sea-ice-and-
>>>>>>>>>>> heat-vicious-cycle
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Yebbut how do you explain the next Ice Age?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> **An ice age is ALWAYS preceded by falling temperatures.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The average temperature of the planet is RISING.
>>>>>>>>  Yep, temperatures go up.. until suddenly they start going down.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What causes temperatures to go down?
>>>>>>  We don't know, but we do know that they
>>>>>> always did and produced a number ice ages.
>>>>
>>>>> Until you can explain why temperatures fell, you can't make any
>>>>> predictions about an impending ice age.
>>>>
>>>> ALL we need to know is that they did fall even when the
>>>> CO2 level and temperatures were much higher than they
>>>> are now and that they happened more than once.
>>>
>>> **Wrong. When CO2 levels were higher, so were temperatures.
>>
>> How do you know that?
>
>**Proxy measurements, via ice cores:
>
>https://www.bas.ac.uk/data/our-data/publication/ice-cores-and-climate-change/
>
> Are you relying an the same people you just claim
>> weren't creditable?
>
>**I rely on the scientists who do ice core measurements.
>
>>
>> Further how do you know CO2 levels were higher?
>
>**Ice core data.
>
> I mean what made them go
>> down?
>
>**Dunno.
>
>> if they are going to go down.. they wouldn’t they be doing so right now.
>
>**Is that a question? CO2 levels aren't going down, because humans are
>adding more CO2 into the atmosphere than natural processes can remove it.
>
>>
>> Your own arguments, BTW.
>
>**Only in your drug and alcohol addled brain. You manufactured your own
>strawman claims. You can burn them down.

You've run out of ideas and are unable to refute history.

Have another dwink, Twevor. You KNOW it makes sense.

On Wed, 4 Jan 2023 05:49:54 +1100, Trevor Wilson
<trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote:

>On 4/01/2023 12:12 am, Scout wrote:
>>
>>
>> "Trevor Wilson" <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
>> news:k1gogdFn22sU3@mid.individual.net...
>>> On 3/01/2023 3:40 am, Scout wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Trevor Wilson" <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
>>>> news:k1ejvkFcpsqU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>> On 2/01/2023 8:47 am, KKKernal Corn wrote:
>>>>>> On Sun, 1 Jan 2023 21:27:37 -0000 (UTC), Lars <lars@hotmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Melting sea ice has only a minor impact on sea level rise because
>>>>>>> the ice
>>>>>>> is already in the ocean, but it does cause major changes to the
>>>>>>> planet.
>>>>>>> When sea ice melts, more sunlight is absorbed by the Earth, which
>>>>>>> causes
>>>>>>> more warming.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It’s a vicious cycle.  And here’s how it works:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> When solar radiation hits snow and ice, approximately 90% of it is
>>>>>>> reflected back out to space. As global warming causes more snow
>>>>>>> and ice to
>>>>>>> melt each summer, the ocean underneath the ice is exposed. The
>>>>>>> dark color
>>>>>>> of ocean absorbs more incoming solar radiation, reflecting less
>>>>>>> back out
>>>>>>> to space. In this way, melting ice causes more warming and so more
>>>>>>> ice
>>>>>>> melts. This is known as a feedback. According to a recent
>>>>>>> scientific study
>>>>>>> that used computer models to predict the future of Arctic sea ice,
>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>> may be no more sea ice left in the Arctic Ocean during summer
>>>>>>> within the
>>>>>>> next few decades
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You can make a simple model that shows how the color of ice and water
>>>>>>> impacts temperature.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What you need:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2 thermometers
>>>>>>> A photo of what sea ice and ocean look like from a satellite (like
>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>> one from the NASA Earth Observatory)
>>>>>>> Tape
>>>>>>> Watch or stopwatch
>>>>>>> A lamp with a 75-100 watt incandescent bulb (or sunshine)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What you do:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Fix thermometers to the back of the picture using tape. One
>>>>>>> thermometer
>>>>>>> bulb should be under ice and the other under ocean. Place the
>>>>>>> thermometers
>>>>>>> so that when you lay the picture down on a table, they are right
>>>>>>> side up
>>>>>>> and can be read.
>>>>>>> Place the light about a foot above the picture. Don’t turn it on yet!
>>>>>>> Read the thermometers before the light is turned on.
>>>>>>> Turn on their light and record the start time.
>>>>>>> Read the temperature of both thermometers every two minutes. Which
>>>>>>> warms
>>>>>>> faster: the thermometer under white ice or the one under dark ocean?
>>>>>>> Check out more icy science:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Types of Ice
>>>>>>> Climate and Ice
>>>>>>> Melting Arctic Sea Ice and Ocean Circulation
>>>>>>> Compare Arctic Sea Ice Extent
>>>>>>> A classroom version of the activity above: Looking into Surface
>>>>>>> Albedo
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://scied.ucar.edu/learning-zone/climate-change-impacts/sea-ice-and-
>>>>>>> heat-vicious-cycle
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yebbut how do you explain the next Ice Age?
>>>>>
>>>>> **An ice age is ALWAYS preceded by falling temperatures.
>>>>>
>>>>> The average temperature of the planet is RISING.
>>>>
>>>> Yep, temperatures go up.. until suddenly they start going down.
>>>
>>> **What causes temperatures to go down?
>>
>> Solar cycle.. the same thing that makes them go up.
>
>**I see. So, you may care to explain why, when the last couple of Solar
>cycles have measured at historically low levels, the the warming on this
>planet has INCREASED. Perhaps there are other factors which have
>over-ridden the effects of the regular Solar cycle? Maybe CO2 levels,
>for instance?
>
>>
>>>
>>> . that's
>>>> why it's called a 'cycle'
>>>
>>> **Here's the thing:
>>>
>>> There is insufficient data to suggest that these "cycles" you speak of
>>> exist.
>>
>> Right, let's ignore all the overlapping and interlocked science that
>> says the same thing and let's go with BS you pull out of thin air instead.
>>
>> Yea, according to Trevor the world has always been exactly the way it is
>> today
>
>**Keep lying you dumb shit-for-brains. I NEVER made such a claim. In
>fact, I have presented clear, unequivocal evidence that this planet has
>undergone significant climatic shifts.
>
> and even though he can't prove it to the standards he demands of
>> everyone else.. we're suppose to blindly accept this claims despite the
>> fact he has absolutely no basis, education, experience, research or even
>> experience in this area.
>
>**Here's the thing Mr Shit-For-Brains: _I_ never made any claims. _I_
>have always cited the best science available:
>
>www.ipcc.ch
>
>Read the IPCC reports, if you truly want to understand what the subject
>entails. If you wish to remain in complete ignorance (which, I suspect,
>you do), then don't read the IPCC reports.
>
>>
>> Yea.. somehow I find you a far less creditable source than all the
>> massive amounts of data and resource by educated, trained and
>> experiences people who you say haven't proven anything.
>
>**You mean like the guys who work with:
>
>www.ipcc.ch

You're losing it, cobber. Best lie down.

On 4/01/2023 6:46 am, Petzl wrote:
> On Wed, 4 Jan 2023 06:04:49 +1100, Trevor Wilson
> <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote:
>
>> On 3/01/2023 8:41 pm, Joe wrote:
>>> On Tue, 3 Jan 2023 19:43:29 +1100
>>> Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Can't either of you idiots trim?
>>
>> **Another denier moron steps up.
>>
> Yes you are a moron loves eating mediea chook food.

**And once more, you stupid, religious fruitcake:

I read the SCIENCE. I don't read your religious texts and I certainly
don't read popular media when it comes to matters of science.

Fuck off and stick your religious nuttery up your arse.

>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> * I said that an ice age is impossible, whilst temperatures are
>>>>>>>> rising.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>  And stupidly claimed that temperatures will continue to rise.
>>>>>
>>>>>> And, unless CO2 emissions are reduced and CO2 extractedfrom the
>>>>>> atmosphere, that is precisely what will happen.
>>>>>
>>>>> How odd that it didn't when the CO2 and temperatures were
>>>>> much higher than they are now when CO2 emissions were
>>>>> not reduced and CO2 was not extracted from the  atmosphere,
>>>>
>>>> **When were CO2 levels and temperatures higher than today?
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> It's basic science.
>>>>>
>>>>> So is the fact that that didn't when the CO2 and temperatures
>>>>> were much higher than they are now when CO2 emissions were
>>>>> not reduced and CO2 was not extracted from the  atmosphere,
>>>>
>>>> **When were CO2 levels and temperatures higher than today?
>>>>
>>>
>>> https://helios-i.mashable.com/imagery/articles/04ydR8YmP8QDFQwmtJRGnyU/images-6.fill.size_2000x1820.v1623362063.png
>>>
>>> The positive feedback element of the global warming *hypothesis*, not
>>> theory, was discredited along with the hockey stick, which was simply a
>>> graphical representation of it. This graph kills it by itself.
>>> Actually, a simple consideration of the fact that there's life on Earth
>>> discredits it.
>>
>> **Nonsense.
>>
> Reality

**And once more, you stupid, religious fruitcake:

I read the SCIENCE. I don't read your religious texts and I certainly
don't read popular media when it comes to matters of science.

Fuck off and stick your religious nuttery up your arse.

>>>
>>> According to ice core data, temperature rises *precede* rises in carbon
>>> dioxide, not the other way around. Of course, that's never mentioned
>>> today.
>>
>> **More lies, dressed as nonsense. The true facts are more prosaic. Ice
>> core data tells us that sometimes, temperature rise precedes CO2 rise
>> and sometimes it lags. I suggest you study the data CAREFULLY.
>>
>> RIGHT NOW, we are experiencing a period where CO2 rise is leading
>> temperature rise. I expect that may change when CO2 levels reach
>> approximately 500ppm. At that point, we will see an increase in CO2
>> levels (and methane levels), as the gases are released from oceans and
>> Arctic regions. Then, of course, temperature levels will increase
>> further. Then CO2/methane levels and process repeats.
>>
>>>
>>> Oh, and track down the so-called 'Climategate' emails, they must still
>>> be on the Net somewhere, and see for yourself how honest the prophets
>>> of global warming were.
>>
>> **Not interested in out of context, stolen emails. I am much more
>> interested in this kind of thing:
>>
>> https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/exxon-knew-about-climate-change-almost-40-years-ago/
>>
>> And:
>>
>> https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/10/climate/nyt-climate-newsletter-cei.html
>
> Trevor understands nothing just likes eating media chook food!

**And once more, you stupid, religious fruitcake:

I read the SCIENCE. I don't read your religious texts and I certainly
don't read popular media when it comes to matters of science.

Fuck off and stick your religious nuttery up your arse.

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On 4/01/2023 6:56 am, Scout wrote:
>
>
> "Trevor Wilson" <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
> news:k1jb0eF4r3kU1@mid.individual.net...
>> On 4/01/2023 12:24 am, Scout wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> "Trevor Wilson" <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
>>> news:k1h282FojajU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>> On 3/01/2023 8:37 am, Petzl wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 2 Jan 2023 21:17:27 -0000 (UTC), R Kym Horsell
>>>>> <kym@kymhorsell.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> In alt.global-warming Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote:
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>> Actually they are already calling for the next glacial period.
>>>>>>> **Are 'they'?
>>>>>>> Who is 'they'?
>>>>>>> When will this 'next glacial period' occur?
>>>>>>> How will this 'next glacial period occur' whilst temperatures are
>>>>>>> rising?
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As you say somewhere else, the earth was headed back into the next
>>>>>> glacial cycle until something happened in the 19th cent.
>>>>>> That something seemed to put carbon into the atm with zero C14,
>>>>>> low C13
>>>>>> isotopes. I.e. something that had been out of contact with the
>>>>>> biosphere
>>>>>> for millions of years yet had once been alive. The decline in C14
>>>>>> and C13
>>>>>> we see in atm CO2 and CH4 exactly seems to match the amount of fossil
>>>>>> fuels we have been burning -- now ~10 GtC per year.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Among many kinds of evidence we've gathered since the greenhouse
>>>>>> effect
>>>>>> was discovered 200y ago, are changes to global tree ring spacing
>>>>>> over the
>>>>>> past 5000y.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I assembled the available datasets and did some corrections for
>>>>>> various biases (e.g. some datasets run for only certain years and
>>>>>> they
>>>>>> all come from different latitudes and species of trees).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Here is the summary plot:
>>>>>> <http://kym.massbus.org/ecology/treeringshomog.gif>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The "raw data" that are so beloved by hillbillies that dont like
>>>>>> "messin widda nummas" looks much the same but more:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <http://kym.massbus.org/ecology/treerings.gif>
>>>>>>
>>>>> Then there is the REAL reson for this global warming scam.
>>>>
>>>> **"Scam"?
>>>>
>>>> Prove that global warming is a "scam".
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Present your scientific evidence here:
>>>
>>> Easy. You are the proof.... according to you global warming is
>>> occurring and has always been occurring.
>>
>> **Nope. Cite your proof that I ever made such a claim.
>>
>>
>>  After all, you can't have anything else
>>> when the temperatures are going up and according to you they have
>>> NEVER declined.
>>
>> **Cite your proof that I ever made such a claim.
>
> You're the one claiming that temperature only increases....

**Cite your proof that I ever made such a claim.

>
>
>
>>
>>>
>>> Since that 'proof' is good enough for your arguments.. it should be
>>> good enough for his.
>>
>> **If you weren't lying through your dumb, American arsehole, then
>> maybe. As it is, you are just another stupid liar.
>
> Well, you've already shown yourself to a stupid liar..

**So you claim. Cite your proof that I ever claimed: "that temperature
only increases...."

Let's see who lies.

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On 4/01/2023 6:53 am, Scout wrote:
>
>
> "Trevor Wilson" <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
> news:k1jb5vF4r3kU2@mid.individual.net...
>> On 4/01/2023 12:21 am, Scout wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> "Trevor Wilson" <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
>>> news:k1gob3Fn22sU2@mid.individual.net...
>>>> On 3/01/2023 3:41 am, Scout wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "KKKernal Corn" <vet@invalid.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:im84rhh7fv3vigtgplrbfnb84b1159b84f@4ax.com...
>>>>>> On Mon, 2 Jan 2023 10:40:35 +1100, Trevor Wilson
>>>>>> <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2/01/2023 8:47 am, KKKernal Corn wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sun, 1 Jan 2023 21:27:37 -0000 (UTC), Lars <lars@hotmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Melting sea ice has only a minor impact on sea level rise
>>>>>>>>> because the ice
>>>>>>>>> is already in the ocean, but it does cause major changes to the
>>>>>>>>> planet.
>>>>>>>>> When sea ice melts, more sunlight is absorbed by the Earth,
>>>>>>>>> which causes
>>>>>>>>> more warming.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It's a vicious cycle.  And here's how it works:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> When solar radiation hits snow and ice, approximately 90% of it is
>>>>>>>>> reflected back out to space. As global warming causes more snow
>>>>>>>>> and ice to
>>>>>>>>> melt each summer, the ocean underneath the ice is exposed. The
>>>>>>>>> dark color
>>>>>>>>> of ocean absorbs more incoming solar radiation, reflecting less
>>>>>>>>> back out
>>>>>>>>> to space. In this way, melting ice causes more warming and so
>>>>>>>>> more ice
>>>>>>>>> melts. This is known as a feedback. According to a recent
>>>>>>>>> scientific study
>>>>>>>>> that used computer models to predict the future of Arctic sea
>>>>>>>>> ice, there
>>>>>>>>> may be no more sea ice left in the Arctic Ocean during summer
>>>>>>>>> within the
>>>>>>>>> next few decades
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You can make a simple model that shows how the color of ice and
>>>>>>>>> water
>>>>>>>>> impacts temperature.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> What you need:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 2 thermometers
>>>>>>>>> A photo of what sea ice and ocean look like from a satellite
>>>>>>>>> (like this
>>>>>>>>> one from the NASA Earth Observatory)
>>>>>>>>> Tape
>>>>>>>>> Watch or stopwatch
>>>>>>>>> A lamp with a 75-100 watt incandescent bulb (or sunshine)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> What you do:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Fix thermometers to the back of the picture using tape. One
>>>>>>>>> thermometer
>>>>>>>>> bulb should be under ice and the other under ocean. Place the
>>>>>>>>> thermometers
>>>>>>>>> so that when you lay the picture down on a table, they are
>>>>>>>>> right side up
>>>>>>>>> and can be read.
>>>>>>>>> Place the light about a foot above the picture. Don't turn it
>>>>>>>>> on yet!
>>>>>>>>> Read the thermometers before the light is turned on.
>>>>>>>>> Turn on their light and record the start time.
>>>>>>>>> Read the temperature of both thermometers every two minutes.
>>>>>>>>> Which warms
>>>>>>>>> faster: the thermometer under white ice or the one under dark
>>>>>>>>> ocean?
>>>>>>>>> Check out more icy science:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Types of Ice
>>>>>>>>> Climate and Ice
>>>>>>>>> Melting Arctic Sea Ice and Ocean Circulation
>>>>>>>>> Compare Arctic Sea Ice Extent
>>>>>>>>> A classroom version of the activity above: Looking into Surface
>>>>>>>>> Albedo
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://scied.ucar.edu/learning-zone/climate-change-impacts/sea-ice-and-
>>>>>>>>> heat-vicious-cycle
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yebbut how do you explain the next Ice Age?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> **An ice age is ALWAYS preceded by falling temperatures.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The average temperature of the planet is RISING.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Therefore, we cannot expect to see an ice age anytime soon.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But there will eventually BE one.
>>>>>
>>>>> Actually looking at the historical record.. the next glacial period
>>>>> can be expected at any time.. indeed.. global warming could be the
>>>>> trigger for a glacial period.
>>>>
>>>> **Nonsense. You can't have a glaciation, whilst temperatures are
>>>> rising.
>>>
>>> Where did I ever suggest otherwise?
>>
>> **I have no idea if you suggested otherwise. I was responding to Rod
>> Speed's idiocy. Not your idiocy. That was elsewhere in the thread.
>
> The only idiocy on display is yours.

**Lemme see: I cite science, whilst you promulgate lies and complete
bullshit.

>
> Now consider.. each year the arctic drops to about -25F.... and later
> rises to about 30F..
>
> Are you going to claim that in march the Arctic isn't still a froze
> waste land because the temperature has risen to -20F?

**I fail to see what seasonal weather variations have to do with
anything. However, if you want to keep beating that drum, feel free to
do so.

>
> Do you take classes to be this stupid or is that God-given stupidity?

**Points:

* I discuss science, not religion. Religion is stupid.
* There is no God you moron. God is a human invention.

>
> And there is glaciation in the arctic and it exists year round..
> temperatures go up.. they go down.. and the glaciers are still there.

**What point are you attempting to make?

>
> I might think Rudy is impersonating you, but I don’t think even Rudy is
> as stupid as what it showing up from you.

**I discuss science and you discuss religion. You are an idiot.

And, once more: I was responding to Rod Speed's stupidity, not your
stupidity. I have addressed your stupidity elsewhere in this thread.

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On 4/01/2023 6:44 am, Scout wrote:
>
>
> "Trevor Wilson" <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
> news:k1jc09F4r3kU5@mid.individual.net...
>> On 4/01/2023 12:19 am, Scout wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> "Trevor Wilson" <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
>>> news:k1hj2gFqt1hU4@mid.individual.net...
>>>> On 3/01/2023 12:13 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, 03 Jan 2023 11:43:12 +1100, Trevor Wilson
>>>>> <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 3/01/2023 10:28 am, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>>> On Tue, 03 Jan 2023 06:10:06 +1100, Trevor Wilson
>>>>>>> <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 3/01/2023 3:40 am, Scout wrote:
>>>>>>>>>   "Trevor Wilson" <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>> news:k1ejvkFcpsqU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>>>>>> On 2/01/2023 8:47 am, KKKernal Corn wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 1 Jan 2023 21:27:37 -0000 (UTC), Lars <lars@hotmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Melting sea ice has only a minor impact on sea level rise
>>>>>>>>>>>> because the ice
>>>>>>>>>>>> is already in the ocean, but it does cause major changes to
>>>>>>>>>>>> the planet.
>>>>>>>>>>>> When sea ice melts, more sunlight is absorbed by the Earth,
>>>>>>>>>>>> which causes
>>>>>>>>>>>> more warming.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> It’s a vicious cycle.  And here’s how it works:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> When solar radiation hits snow and ice, approximately 90% of
>>>>>>>>>>>> it is
>>>>>>>>>>>> reflected back out to space. As global warming causes more
>>>>>>>>>>>> snow and ice to
>>>>>>>>>>>> melt each summer, the ocean underneath the ice is exposed.
>>>>>>>>>>>> The dark color
>>>>>>>>>>>> of ocean absorbs more incoming solar radiation, reflecting
>>>>>>>>>>>> less back out
>>>>>>>>>>>> to space. In this way, melting ice causes more warming and
>>>>>>>>>>>> so more ice
>>>>>>>>>>>> melts. This is known as a feedback. According to a recent
>>>>>>>>>>>> scientific study
>>>>>>>>>>>> that used computer models to predict the future of Arctic
>>>>>>>>>>>> sea ice, there
>>>>>>>>>>>> may be no more sea ice left in the Arctic Ocean during
>>>>>>>>>>>> summer within the
>>>>>>>>>>>> next few decades
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> You can make a simple model that shows how the color of ice
>>>>>>>>>>>> and water
>>>>>>>>>>>> impacts temperature.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> What you need:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> 2 thermometers
>>>>>>>>>>>> A photo of what sea ice and ocean look like from a satellite
>>>>>>>>>>>> (like this
>>>>>>>>>>>> one from the NASA Earth Observatory)
>>>>>>>>>>>> Tape
>>>>>>>>>>>> Watch or stopwatch
>>>>>>>>>>>> A lamp with a 75-100 watt incandescent bulb (or sunshine)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> What you do:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Fix thermometers to the back of the picture using tape. One
>>>>>>>>>>>> thermometer
>>>>>>>>>>>> bulb should be under ice and the other under ocean. Place
>>>>>>>>>>>> the thermometers
>>>>>>>>>>>> so that when you lay the picture down on a table, they are
>>>>>>>>>>>> right side up
>>>>>>>>>>>> and can be read.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Place the light about a foot above the picture. Don’t turn
>>>>>>>>>>>> it on yet!
>>>>>>>>>>>> Read the thermometers before the light is turned on.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Turn on their light and record the start time.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Read the temperature of both thermometers every two minutes.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Which warms
>>>>>>>>>>>> faster: the thermometer under white ice or the one under
>>>>>>>>>>>> dark ocean?
>>>>>>>>>>>> Check out more icy science:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Types of Ice
>>>>>>>>>>>> Climate and Ice
>>>>>>>>>>>> Melting Arctic Sea Ice and Ocean Circulation
>>>>>>>>>>>> Compare Arctic Sea Ice Extent
>>>>>>>>>>>> A classroom version of the activity above: Looking into
>>>>>>>>>>>> Surface Albedo
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://scied.ucar.edu/learning-zone/climate-change-impacts/sea-ice-and-
>>>>>>>>>>>> heat-vicious-cycle
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Yebbut how do you explain the next Ice Age?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> **An ice age is ALWAYS preceded by falling temperatures.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The average temperature of the planet is RISING.
>>>>>>>>>  Yep, temperatures go up.. until suddenly they start going down.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What causes temperatures to go down?
>>>>>>>  We don't know, but we do know that they
>>>>>>> always did and produced a number ice ages.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Until you can explain why temperatures fell, you can't make any
>>>>>> predictions about an impending ice age.
>>>>>
>>>>> ALL we need to know is that they did fall even when the
>>>>> CO2 level and temperatures were much higher than they
>>>>> are now and that they happened more than once.
>>>>
>>>> **Wrong. When CO2 levels were higher, so were temperatures.
>>>
>>> How do you know that?
>>
>> **Proxy measurements, via ice cores:
>>
>> https://www.bas.ac.uk/data/our-data/publication/ice-cores-and-climate-change/
>
> Which you tell us isn't adequate proof.

**Liar. I never suggested that ice core data was not adequate.

.... After all the same ice cores
> are used to show glaciation has occurred.
>
> So you can't have it both ways.. either they are proof or they aren't/

**Ice core data represents the best proxy data we have for climate
information going back almost 1 million years.

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On 4/01/2023 6:43 am, Scout wrote:
>
>
> "Trevor Wilson" <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
> news:k1jbouF4r3kU4@mid.individual.net...
>> On 4/01/2023 12:17 am, Scout wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> "Trevor Wilson" <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
>>> news:k1hc0vFojajU7@mid.individual.net...
>>>> On 3/01/2023 10:28 am, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, 03 Jan 2023 06:10:06 +1100, Trevor Wilson
>>>>> <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 3/01/2023 3:40 am, Scout wrote:
>>>>>>>   "Trevor Wilson" <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:k1ejvkFcpsqU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>>>> On 2/01/2023 8:47 am, KKKernal Corn wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 1 Jan 2023 21:27:37 -0000 (UTC), Lars <lars@hotmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Melting sea ice has only a minor impact on sea level rise
>>>>>>>>>> because the ice
>>>>>>>>>> is already in the ocean, but it does cause major changes to
>>>>>>>>>> the planet.
>>>>>>>>>> When sea ice melts, more sunlight is absorbed by the Earth,
>>>>>>>>>> which causes
>>>>>>>>>> more warming.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It’s a vicious cycle.  And here’s how it works:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> When solar radiation hits snow and ice, approximately 90% of
>>>>>>>>>> it is
>>>>>>>>>> reflected back out to space. As global warming causes more
>>>>>>>>>> snow and ice to
>>>>>>>>>> melt each summer, the ocean underneath the ice is exposed. The
>>>>>>>>>> dark color
>>>>>>>>>> of ocean absorbs more incoming solar radiation, reflecting
>>>>>>>>>> less back out
>>>>>>>>>> to space. In this way, melting ice causes more warming and so
>>>>>>>>>> more ice
>>>>>>>>>> melts. This is known as a feedback. According to a recent
>>>>>>>>>> scientific study
>>>>>>>>>> that used computer models to predict the future of Arctic sea
>>>>>>>>>> ice, there
>>>>>>>>>> may be no more sea ice left in the Arctic Ocean during summer
>>>>>>>>>> within the
>>>>>>>>>> next few decades
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You can make a simple model that shows how the color of ice
>>>>>>>>>> and water
>>>>>>>>>> impacts temperature.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> What you need:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 2 thermometers
>>>>>>>>>> A photo of what sea ice and ocean look like from a satellite
>>>>>>>>>> (like this
>>>>>>>>>> one from the NASA Earth Observatory)
>>>>>>>>>> Tape
>>>>>>>>>> Watch or stopwatch
>>>>>>>>>> A lamp with a 75-100 watt incandescent bulb (or sunshine)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> What you do:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Fix thermometers to the back of the picture using tape. One
>>>>>>>>>> thermometer
>>>>>>>>>> bulb should be under ice and the other under ocean. Place the
>>>>>>>>>> thermometers
>>>>>>>>>> so that when you lay the picture down on a table, they are
>>>>>>>>>> right side up
>>>>>>>>>> and can be read.
>>>>>>>>>> Place the light about a foot above the picture. Don’t turn it
>>>>>>>>>> on yet!
>>>>>>>>>> Read the thermometers before the light is turned on.
>>>>>>>>>> Turn on their light and record the start time.
>>>>>>>>>> Read the temperature of both thermometers every two minutes.
>>>>>>>>>> Which warms
>>>>>>>>>> faster: the thermometer under white ice or the one under dark
>>>>>>>>>> ocean?
>>>>>>>>>> Check out more icy science:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Types of Ice
>>>>>>>>>> Climate and Ice
>>>>>>>>>> Melting Arctic Sea Ice and Ocean Circulation
>>>>>>>>>> Compare Arctic Sea Ice Extent
>>>>>>>>>> A classroom version of the activity above: Looking into
>>>>>>>>>> Surface Albedo
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> https://scied.ucar.edu/learning-zone/climate-change-impacts/sea-ice-and-
>>>>>>>>>> heat-vicious-cycle
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yebbut how do you explain the next Ice Age?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> **An ice age is ALWAYS preceded by falling temperatures.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The average temperature of the planet is RISING.
>>>>>>>  Yep, temperatures go up.. until suddenly they start going down.
>>>>>
>>>>>> What causes temperatures to go down?
>>>>>
>>>>> We don't know, but we do know that they
>>>>> always did and produced a number ice ages.
>>>>
>>>> **Until you can explain why temperatures fell, you can't make any
>>>> predictions about an impending ice age.
>>>
>>> That's ok.. you've already proven that global warming is utterly
>>> natural and thus nothing we do can alter that.
>>>
>>> So let's fire up some power plants and let's heat Europe.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> **And why would you want to heat Europe?
>>
>> https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe/totally-insane-thousands-of-records-shattered-in-historic-winter-heat-20230103-p5ca5i.html
>>
>> You're not a skier then?
>
> Remind me to lock you into a freezer.. in 48 hours we'll see if 20F is
> warm enough for you or if you've turned into an ice statute.
>
>
>

**Why would you want to heat Europe?

https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe/totally-insane-thousands-of-records-shattered-in-historic-winter-heat-20230103-p5ca5i.html

Why do you avoid answering questions?

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On Wed, 04 Jan 2023 05:07:41 +1100, R Kym Horsell <kym@kymhorsell.com>
wrote:

> In alt.global-warming Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, 03 Jan 2023 20:10:00 +1100, R Kym Horsell <kym@kymhorsell.com>
>> wrote:
>>> In alt.global-warming Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 03 Jan 2023 18:52:44 +1100, R Kym Horsell <kym@kymhorsell.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>> ...
>>>> So Wilson's mindless hyperventilation is just that.
>>> You're projecting again.
>> You never could bullshit your way out of a wet paper bag.
>> I have never ever hyperventilated about anything at
>> all, ever, you pathetic excuse for a lying bullshit artist.

> Sounds like you're caught in a projection loop again.

You never could bullshit your way out of a wet paper bag.

<reams of your shit any 2 year old could leave for dead flushed where it
belongs>

On 4/01/2023 7:08 am, KKKernal Corn wrote:
> On Wed, 4 Jan 2023 05:49:54 +1100, Trevor Wilson
> <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote:
>
>> On 4/01/2023 12:12 am, Scout wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> "Trevor Wilson" <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
>>> news:k1gogdFn22sU3@mid.individual.net...
>>>> On 3/01/2023 3:40 am, Scout wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Trevor Wilson" <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
>>>>> news:k1ejvkFcpsqU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>> On 2/01/2023 8:47 am, KKKernal Corn wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sun, 1 Jan 2023 21:27:37 -0000 (UTC), Lars <lars@hotmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Melting sea ice has only a minor impact on sea level rise because
>>>>>>>> the ice
>>>>>>>> is already in the ocean, but it does cause major changes to the
>>>>>>>> planet.
>>>>>>>> When sea ice melts, more sunlight is absorbed by the Earth, which
>>>>>>>> causes
>>>>>>>> more warming.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It’s a vicious cycle.  And here’s how it works:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> When solar radiation hits snow and ice, approximately 90% of it is
>>>>>>>> reflected back out to space. As global warming causes more snow
>>>>>>>> and ice to
>>>>>>>> melt each summer, the ocean underneath the ice is exposed. The
>>>>>>>> dark color
>>>>>>>> of ocean absorbs more incoming solar radiation, reflecting less
>>>>>>>> back out
>>>>>>>> to space. In this way, melting ice causes more warming and so more
>>>>>>>> ice
>>>>>>>> melts. This is known as a feedback. According to a recent
>>>>>>>> scientific study
>>>>>>>> that used computer models to predict the future of Arctic sea ice,
>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>> may be no more sea ice left in the Arctic Ocean during summer
>>>>>>>> within the
>>>>>>>> next few decades
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You can make a simple model that shows how the color of ice and water
>>>>>>>> impacts temperature.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What you need:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 2 thermometers
>>>>>>>> A photo of what sea ice and ocean look like from a satellite (like
>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>> one from the NASA Earth Observatory)
>>>>>>>> Tape
>>>>>>>> Watch or stopwatch
>>>>>>>> A lamp with a 75-100 watt incandescent bulb (or sunshine)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What you do:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Fix thermometers to the back of the picture using tape. One
>>>>>>>> thermometer
>>>>>>>> bulb should be under ice and the other under ocean. Place the
>>>>>>>> thermometers
>>>>>>>> so that when you lay the picture down on a table, they are right
>>>>>>>> side up
>>>>>>>> and can be read.
>>>>>>>> Place the light about a foot above the picture. Don’t turn it on yet!
>>>>>>>> Read the thermometers before the light is turned on.
>>>>>>>> Turn on their light and record the start time.
>>>>>>>> Read the temperature of both thermometers every two minutes. Which
>>>>>>>> warms
>>>>>>>> faster: the thermometer under white ice or the one under dark ocean?
>>>>>>>> Check out more icy science:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Types of Ice
>>>>>>>> Climate and Ice
>>>>>>>> Melting Arctic Sea Ice and Ocean Circulation
>>>>>>>> Compare Arctic Sea Ice Extent
>>>>>>>> A classroom version of the activity above: Looking into Surface
>>>>>>>> Albedo
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://scied.ucar.edu/learning-zone/climate-change-impacts/sea-ice-and-
>>>>>>>> heat-vicious-cycle
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yebbut how do you explain the next Ice Age?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> **An ice age is ALWAYS preceded by falling temperatures.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The average temperature of the planet is RISING.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yep, temperatures go up.. until suddenly they start going down.
>>>>
>>>> **What causes temperatures to go down?
>>>
>>> Solar cycle.. the same thing that makes them go up.
>>
>> **I see. So, you may care to explain why, when the last couple of Solar
>> cycles have measured at historically low levels, the the warming on this
>> planet has INCREASED. Perhaps there are other factors which have
>> over-ridden the effects of the regular Solar cycle? Maybe CO2 levels,
>> for instance?
>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> . that's
>>>>> why it's called a 'cycle'
>>>>
>>>> **Here's the thing:
>>>>
>>>> There is insufficient data to suggest that these "cycles" you speak of
>>>> exist.
>>>
>>> Right, let's ignore all the overlapping and interlocked science that
>>> says the same thing and let's go with BS you pull out of thin air instead.
>>>
>>> Yea, according to Trevor the world has always been exactly the way it is
>>> today
>>
>> **Keep lying you dumb shit-for-brains. I NEVER made such a claim. In
>> fact, I have presented clear, unequivocal evidence that this planet has
>> undergone significant climatic shifts.
>>
>> and even though he can't prove it to the standards he demands of
>>> everyone else.. we're suppose to blindly accept this claims despite the
>>> fact he has absolutely no basis, education, experience, research or even
>>> experience in this area.
>>
>> **Here's the thing Mr Shit-For-Brains: _I_ never made any claims. _I_
>> have always cited the best science available:
>>
>> www.ipcc.ch
>>
>> Read the IPCC reports, if you truly want to understand what the subject
>> entails. If you wish to remain in complete ignorance (which, I suspect,
>> you do), then don't read the IPCC reports.
>>
>>>
>>> Yea.. somehow I find you a far less creditable source than all the
>>> massive amounts of data and resource by educated, trained and
>>> experiences people who you say haven't proven anything.
>>
>> **You mean like the guys who work with:
>>
>> www.ipcc.ch
>
> You're losing it, cobber. Best lie down.

**I realise that you have no functioning neurons left in your noggin. I
suggest you listen to those who know more than you do (which is mostly
everyone).

If you cannot present any scientific arguments, then shut the fuck up.

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In alt.global-warming Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 04 Jan 2023 05:07:41 +1100, R Kym Horsell <kym@kymhorsell.com>
> wrote:
>
>> In alt.global-warming Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Tue, 03 Jan 2023 20:10:00 +1100, R Kym Horsell <kym@kymhorsell.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> In alt.global-warming Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, 03 Jan 2023 18:52:44 +1100, R Kym Horsell <kym@kymhorsell.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>> ...
>>>>> So Wilson's mindless hyperventilation is just that.
>>>> You're projecting again.
>>> You never could bullshit your way out of a wet paper bag.
>>> I have never ever hyperventilated about anything at
>>> all, ever, you pathetic excuse for a lying bullshit artist.
>
>> Sounds like you're caught in a projection loop again.
>
> You never could bullshit your way out of a wet paper bag.
>
> <reams of your shit any 2 year old could leave for dead flushed where it
> belongs>

Translation: squeak squeak squeak squeak squeak.

--
The Brazilian Amazon has been a net carbon emitter since 2016
The Economist, 21 May 2022
Over the past 20 years, the Brazilian Amazon has lost 350,000 square km and
emitted 13% more CO2 than it absorbed. The trend shows little sign of
reversing soon.

Amazonia as a carbon source linked to deforestation and climate ...
Nature, 14 July 2021
The Amazon forest contains about 123 +- 23 petagrams carbon (Pg C) of
above- and belowground biomass, which can be released rapidly and may thus ...

[Not exactly pleasing, but this completes a finding from early AI
programs I worked on 10y back that detected a flip from sequestering
to carbon emission in the Congo and Brazil. The "official" finding on the
Congo was also published in Nature a couple years back].

In article <bh29rh5q5o9moe339k97162ubgprm8cs7k@4ax.com>,
sick old nazoid paedo Andrew 'Andrzej' Baron ("KKKernal Corn") wrote:

> Have another dwink, Twevor. You KNOW it makes sense.

Suck another muzzie dick, Andrzej. You KNOW it makes sense.

In article <5o29rhtjnhvhjlf8t6i3oic95dtnsl9k7m@4ax.com>,
sick old nazoid paedo Andrew 'Andrzej' Baron ("KKKernal Corn") wrote:

> You're losing it, cobber. Best lie down.

Sigh. Andrzej, you're such a stupid little cockroach.