In message <1utdd1xa1a40c.dlg@example1357.net>, at 17:17:11 on Sat, 26
Mar 2022, mechanic <mechanic@example.net> remarked:
>On Sat, 26 Mar 2022 13:34:28 +0000, Roland Perry wrote:
>
>>>At that early stage, it was thought Covid would be like flu, and mainly
>>>transmitted through droplets. If that were the case, then almost any mask
>>>would significantly reduce transmission. Later, it was found that Covid was
>>>mainly airborne, so most ordinary masks and shields do little to reduce
>>>transmission, and that includes surgical masks.
>>
>> I won't dispute that those measures were more theatre than anything
>> else. It was apparent to me at the time.
>>
>>>Better ventilation and strong UV lights would be much more useful.
>>
>> Yes, only meeting people outdoors was one of the precautions I felt
>> easiest to deploy.
>>
>>>So it now turns out that the early, well-meaning advice was largely wrong.
>>>But the authorities were very slow to acknowledge the error.
>>
>> There's another aspect - shortages of the better masks meant they didn't
>> want to cause panic buying amongst the general population, which would
>> mean none available for those who most needed them.
>
>Maybe people tired of repeated health messages, and the problem when
>the messages (eventually) changed was that people lost trust in the
>govt advice/messages given out on their tv/radio appearances. Plus
>they pick some unimpressive people to front up the message. And they
>never apologise! Some videos were, and still do, show govt
>spokespeople so shifty it's no surprise that they are not trusted or
>believed.

That may affect some people, but I can see through it when making my own
decisions.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <t1n9n7$sp1$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:58:47 on Sat, 26 Mar
> 2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <gihp3hhuttnadu9d49q08lmnelk2aq2uir@4ax.com>, at 20:40:46 on
>>> Thu, 24 Mar 2022, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
>>> remarked:
>>>> On Thu, 24 Mar 2022 11:00:18 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In message <t1g6oc$m2p$2@dont-email.me>, at 22:25:16 on Wed, 23 Mar
>>>>> 2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If you are susceptible for whatever reason you need to take *your
>>>>>>>>>> own* precautions, wearing proper FFP3 masks and probably reducing
>>>>>>>>>> your contact with others.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What about those who cannot wear FFP3 masks?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's not clear to me who that set comprises. In the early days there
>>>>>>> were some issues with FFP2 masks popping off people's ears all the time,
>>>>>>> but now you can get a gadget that pulls the strings round the back of
>>>>>>> you head instead.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One which I read in a comment on FB today was autistic people who are
>>>>>> hypersensitive to things touching their face.
>>>>>
>>>>> Autistic people who are that sensitive will have many much greater
>>>>> issues to deal with wrt Covid (and I'm not just saying that, a close
>>>>> friend's day job is respite carer for autistic children whose parents
>>>>> can no longer cope with them 24x7).
>>>>>
>>>> Autism can be very variable in the combinations of features and other
>>>> physical or mental conditions which can accompany them.
>>>
>>> Yes I know.
>>>
>>>> Many will have their autism not immediately apparent to those they
>>>> work/live with but with individual elements which are.
>>>
>>> Being hypersensitive about anything touching their face is not something
>>> that's likely to have been overlooked by their carers.
>>
>> Not all autistic people who are sensitive to touch have or need carers
>
> I wonder how many who are so sensitive to touch they can't bear to wear
> a mask, have no-one looking out for them.

The comment I saw about it, which prompted my post above, it was an
autistic mother looking after her own autistic children.

Anna Noyd-Dryver

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <t1n9n8$sp1$2@dont-email.me>, at 14:58:48 on Sat, 26 Mar
> 2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <fd2h3hl91adh3h8qap289cdlulek0i9ppq@4ax.com>, at 14:26:56 on
>>> Mon, 21 Mar 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>
>>>>>>>>> Greater Anglia is currently advertising to potential passengers in East
>>>>>>>>> Anglia (on various TV and catch-up channels) to the effect that "It's
>>>>>>>>> not as dangerous as you think to travel on our trains, because we've
>>>>>>>>> deep-cleaned them".
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That was the slogan for public-transport operators a year ago.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Odd then, I first saw the adverts this weekend.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Things must move very slowly in time-warped Ely.
>>>>>
>>>>> As far as I know the speed of light is still the same, so if I was
>>>>> watching a programme yesterday, it was probably transmitted yesterday.
>>>>> The culprit here is Greater Anglia.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, but they're catering to yokels like you.
>>>
>>> I thought I'd revisit this, because I saw the advert again. The local
>>> demographic splits into three main groups:
>>>
>>> Locals who have been here all their lives.
>>> Townies who have retired to the country <waves>.
>>> Incomers who use it as a dormitory for commuting to higher-waged places.
>>>
>>> There's a ripple effect in the latter, because quite a few people
>>> commute into Ely (where they can't afford to live) from places like
>>> March and Downham Market.
>>>
>>> I don't think any of these three groups is particularly interested in
>>> using trains for leisure purposes, not least because the vast majority
>>> are wedded to their cars.
>>
>> IYO what demographic do use trains for leisure travel? There must be some,
>> because the GWML is packed today!
>
> Not very many from Fenland, I bet. Who were the ones Recliner was having
> a dig at.

But in general though, if you consider it unlikely that either the always
lived here, the retired here, or the moved here for a job, are going to
travel by train, who does that leave? They definitely weren't imaginary,
and they were definitely full and standing!!

Anna Noyd-Dryver

On Sat, 26 Mar 2022 13:30:00 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
wrote:

>In message <gihp3hhuttnadu9d49q08lmnelk2aq2uir@4ax.com>, at 20:40:46 on
>Thu, 24 Mar 2022, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
>remarked:
>>On Thu, 24 Mar 2022 11:00:18 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>In message <t1g6oc$m2p$2@dont-email.me>, at 22:25:16 on Wed, 23 Mar
>>>2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>
>>>>>>>> If you are susceptible for whatever reason you need to take *your
>>>>>>>> own* precautions, wearing proper FFP3 masks and probably reducing
>>>>>>>> your contact with others.
>>>>>
>>>>>> What about those who cannot wear FFP3 masks?
>>>>>
>>>>> It's not clear to me who that set comprises. In the early days there
>>>>> were some issues with FFP2 masks popping off people's ears all the time,
>>>>> but now you can get a gadget that pulls the strings round the back of
>>>>> you head instead.
>>>>
>>>>One which I read in a comment on FB today was autistic people who are
>>>>hypersensitive to things touching their face.
>>>
>>>Autistic people who are that sensitive will have many much greater
>>>issues to deal with wrt Covid (and I'm not just saying that, a close
>>>friend's day job is respite carer for autistic children whose parents
>>>can no longer cope with them 24x7).
>>>
>>Autism can be very variable in the combinations of features and other
>>physical or mental conditions which can accompany them.
>
>Yes I know.
>
>>Many will have their autism not immediately apparent to those they
>>work/live with but with individual elements which are.
>
>Being hypersensitive about anything touching their face is not something
>that's likely to have been overlooked by their carers.
>
That presumes they have a carer.

On Sat, 26 Mar 2022 15:24:40 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
wrote:

>In message <t1n9n7$sp1$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:58:47 on Sat, 26 Mar
>2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <gihp3hhuttnadu9d49q08lmnelk2aq2uir@4ax.com>, at 20:40:46 on
>>> Thu, 24 Mar 2022, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
>>> remarked:
>>>> On Thu, 24 Mar 2022 11:00:18 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In message <t1g6oc$m2p$2@dont-email.me>, at 22:25:16 on Wed, 23 Mar
>>>>> 2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If you are susceptible for whatever reason you need to take *your
>>>>>>>>>> own* precautions, wearing proper FFP3 masks and probably reducing
>>>>>>>>>> your contact with others.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What about those who cannot wear FFP3 masks?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's not clear to me who that set comprises. In the early days there
>>>>>>> were some issues with FFP2 masks popping off people's ears all the time,
>>>>>>> but now you can get a gadget that pulls the strings round the back of
>>>>>>> you head instead.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One which I read in a comment on FB today was autistic people who are
>>>>>> hypersensitive to things touching their face.
>>>>>
>>>>> Autistic people who are that sensitive will have many much greater
>>>>> issues to deal with wrt Covid (and I'm not just saying that, a close
>>>>> friend's day job is respite carer for autistic children whose parents
>>>>> can no longer cope with them 24x7).
>>>>>
>>>> Autism can be very variable in the combinations of features and other
>>>> physical or mental conditions which can accompany them.
>>>
>>> Yes I know.
>>>
>>>> Many will have their autism not immediately apparent to those they
>>>> work/live with but with individual elements which are.
>>>
>>> Being hypersensitive about anything touching their face is not something
>>> that's likely to have been overlooked by their carers.
>>
>>Not all autistic people who are sensitive to touch have or need carers
>
>I wonder how many who are so sensitive to touch they can't bear to wear
>a mask, have no-one looking out for them.
>
The effect of wearing a face covering can be more subtle than that.
One mask might cause discomfort while another does not because of the
individual design not causing a particular uncomfortable sensation.
There is no general presumption to be made that an autistic person
cannot deal with it themselves.

On Sat, 26 Mar 2022 13:06:52 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
wrote:

>In message <atoe0djbfzse$.dlg@example1357.net>, at 19:37:01 on Thu, 24
>Mar 2022, mechanic <mechanic@example.net> remarked:
>>On Thu, 24 Mar 2022 11:06:55 +0000, Roland Perry wrote:
>>
>>> I first saw them at scale in a pub which had just reopened with
>>> stringent Covid precautions. Tables separated, pre-booked only, one-way
>>> system, one person in toilets at a time, table service only etc. It was
>>> not at all clear what protection they gave either the waitresses or
>>> customers.
>>
>>That was when we were fed the 'droplets' theory, science is now
>>reluctantly moving to the aerosol idea where earlier instructions to
>>clean surfaces and wash hands have given way to more emphasis on
>>ventilation and effective masks.
>
>I suppose I always did think it was mainly transmitted by the smaller
>droplets know trendily known as aerosols, rather than spit and sneeze.
>
>Still wouldn't want a Covid person to spit in my face though.
>
Which is not inevitably a malicious act hence the need to be careful
about others whether knowingly infected or not.

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <pqqo3hh9jfint0oe6npsfmmptq72tu3olk@4ax.com>, at 13:03:39 on
> Thu, 24 Mar 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>
>>>>>> The Flu annual cycle is because they have to try and predict which
>>>>>> variant is likely to be the one going round this year. It's quite
>>>>>> possible that Covid could end up in a similar position.
>>>>>
>>>>> That doesn't quite work, because the flu variants they are immunising
>>>>> against are already in circulation, they just try to predict which might
>>>>> be in the ascendancy six months later.
>>>>>
>>>>> Covid variants are all brand new.
>>>>
>>>> No, they aren't brand new. They evolve from existing successful
>>>> variants, so we do have clues about what might come
>>>> next.
>>>
>>> Timelines again. They are "brand new" compared to the flu viruses which
>>> are selected to be jabbed against each Autumn. And in any event Omicron
>>> for example is still "new" in the timescale of creating, testing and
>>> rolling out a new vaccine.
>>>
>>> See below for the dates the Omicrons were first discovered.
>>>
>>>>> Unless anyone thinks that Alpha (or
>>>>> whatever) will be making a comeback next year.
>>>>
>>>> No, but next winter's dominant variant is very likely to be a
>>>> descendant of the current Omicron BA.2 sub-variant. So, a
>>>> vaccine designed to combat BA.2 is likely to be much more effective
>>>> than one designed to combat Alpha.
>>>
>>> I'm confident that prediction is as unfounded as others of yours. Like
>>> "there won't be a third wave". It doesn't mean there isn't a slim
>>> possibility it'll be true, but you are coming across as over-confident.
>>>
>>>> "Reinfection with BA.2 following infection with BA.1 has been
>>>> documented, however, initial data from population-level
>>>> reinfection studies suggest that infection with BA.1 provides strong
>>>> protection against reinfection with BA.2, at least
>>>> for the limited period for which data are available."
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.who.int/news/item/22-02-2022-statement-on-omicron-subline
>>>> age-ba.2>
>>>
>>> More data on Covid lineages at:
>>>
>>> https://cov-lineages.org/lineage_list.html
>>>
>>> BA.1 mid Sept 2021
>>> BA.2 mid Nov 2021
>>> BA.3 end Nov 2021, also an Omicron; you can read the rest for yourself.
>>
>> The point is that these are close cousins, and prior infection with one
>> provides good protection against its cousins.
>> It's likely that the same will be true of vaccines, so an
>> Omicron-focused vaccine will probably be more effective now
>> than the original formulations, even if the virus has evolved further
>> by the autumn, which is likely.
>
> As ever, I'm disinclined to make such assumptions unless confirmed by a
> qualified epidemiologist.

That's what the trials are evaluating.

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <atoe0djbfzse$.dlg@example1357.net>, at 19:37:01 on Thu, 24
> Mar 2022, mechanic <mechanic@example.net> remarked:
>> On Thu, 24 Mar 2022 11:06:55 +0000, Roland Perry wrote:
>>
>>> I first saw them at scale in a pub which had just reopened with
>>> stringent Covid precautions. Tables separated, pre-booked only, one-way
>>> system, one person in toilets at a time, table service only etc. It was
>>> not at all clear what protection they gave either the waitresses or
>>> customers.
>>
>> That was when we were fed the 'droplets' theory, science is now
>> reluctantly moving to the aerosol idea where earlier instructions to
>> clean surfaces and wash hands have given way to more emphasis on
>> ventilation and effective masks.
>
> I suppose I always did think it was mainly transmitted by the smaller
> droplets know trendily known as aerosols, rather than spit and sneeze.
>
> Still wouldn't want a Covid person to spit in my face though.

Breathing in your direction might be worse.

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <fd2h3hl91adh3h8qap289cdlulek0i9ppq@4ax.com>, at 14:26:56 on
> Mon, 21 Mar 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>
>
>>> What happened to Herd immunity. HaHa! Bonk.
>>
>> We've pretty much reached herd immunity, thanks to the vaccines. That's
>> why most of us don't worry about it any more.
>
> Not even the 1:20 (or whatever) who today have Covid? Some catching
> Omicron for a second time.
>

Sure, though it's probably a different strain each time. Face it: Omicron
is all around us, and we'll all be exposed to it repeatedly. You can't hide
from it, so learn to live with it.

I got pinged today (for the first time). Apparently I encountered a
positive case last Sunday, when I was in busy airports, buses, a full
plane, etc. Did I catch it? I don't know, and am not worried. I rather
hope I did, as it'll act as an Omicron booster shot.

On 26/03/2022 12:48, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <BMKdnRuxocYQJaH_nZ2dnUU7-fvNnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>, at
> 18:29:33 on Thu, 24 Mar 2022, Arthur Figgis <afiggis@example.invalid>
> remarked:
>>> We took a General Studies A Level, for which there was little or no
>>> teaching and everyone got a good grade for turning up.  Universities and
>>> employers were looking for "n A Levels excluding General Studies".
>>> It wasn't entirely trivial.  It had a strong arty bias (whereas my
>>> strengths were scientific) and required recalling to roughly O-Level
>>> standard a modern language that we'd had two years to forget.
>>
>> My school forced people in the lower sixth who weren't doing an A
>> level language to do a spurious GCSE language, which timetabling
>> quirks meant had to be Spanish (continuing with the compulsory French
>> or German from GCSEs would surely have made more sense).
>
> The secondary school my children went to had a significant demand from
> parents for Spanish lessons.
>
> But none of the parents could answer the question "we can only afford
> two language teachers, which of the German or French ones do you want us
> to make redundant".
>
> I did wonder why we couldn't send one of them off to do some evening
> classes in Spanish, but that was above my pay-grade.

Our Spanish teacher was a GCSE French teacher who "spoke a bit of Spanish".

--
Arthur Figgis

In message <S+NBJpiaByPiFA7N@perry.uk>, at 14:16:58 on Sat, 26 Mar 2022,
Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> remarked:

>I suspect the adverts must be for people in East London wanting to go to
>the seaside via Colchester.
>
>Meanwhile, GA has sawn off the branch it's sitting on, as far as people
>here are concerned, with this news about Easter:
>
> "Railway lines between King's Lynn and London will be blocked
> this Easter bank holiday weekend.
>
> Works are taking place in the East of England, blocking lines
> through Cambridgeshire, Essex and Hertfordshire.
>
> Greater Anglia passengers are set to face a full line closure
> all weekend at Bishop's Stortford - between Cambridge and
> London Liverpool Street.
>
> On Easter Sunday (April 17), works are taking place on the line
> between Ely and King's Lynn.
>
> There will be no Great Northern or Greater Anglia trains to
> Littleport, Downham Market, Watlington or King's Lynn when the
> line is closed."

The railways collectively doing warm-up today:

Reduced service on ECML/GN/TL, crawling round the Hertford Loop.
Buses from Cambridge to Ely.
Buses from Peterborough to Ely.
Ally Pally to Welwyn Garden City bustituted, and separately WGC to
Stevenage and Hertford North to Stevenage (locals)

It's enough to convince our jolly holiday makers (or even just "let's go
see mum on Mothers Day" to buy a car and never try to use a train ever
again.
--
Roland Perry

On Fri, 25 Mar 2022 17:18:52 +0000, "hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk" <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

>On 22/03/2022 19:23, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On 22/03/2022 13:47, Recliner wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 22 Mar 2022 12:06:18 +0000, mechanic <mechanic@example.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, 22 Mar 2022 07:13:01 +0000, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Mainly because it's the only such disease where in plenty of areas 10%
>>>>>> of the population have it during any one week (it's 11% here). Also
>>>>>> apparently the second most infectious one, behind measles.
>>>>>
>>>>> Strange that we've eliminated smallpox, ebola, even measles to some
>>>>> extent, but given up on covid.
>>>>
>>>> Because it's evolved to become a pretty benign disease, much like the
>>>> common cold. We've not tried to eliminate colds,
>>>> either.
>>>
>>> They've been trying to cure colds for around 70 years, they haven't
>>> succeeded yet.
>>>
>>
>> AIUI one of the problems is that there are around 400 different Common
>> Colds with very similar symptoms but caused by at least four totally
>> different classes of virus.
>>
>>
>> Anna Noyd-Dryver
>>
>
>I've heard something similar. And while I understand that some strains
>of the rhinovirus are technically treatable, the proliferation of other
>strains pretty much cancels out any real benefit.
>
>The task, AIUI, is to understand the structure of the rhinovirus itself.
>That would subsequently allow research for treatment across the board.
>Unfortunately, however, they have not successfully cracked that.

What would be the incentive for performing such expensive research?

Would it save a lot of lives? No

Would it make the pharma that developed such products a good financial return? Probably not.

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 25 Mar 2022 17:18:52 +0000, "hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk" <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 22/03/2022 19:23, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
>>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 22/03/2022 13:47, Recliner wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, 22 Mar 2022 12:06:18 +0000, mechanic <mechanic@example.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, 22 Mar 2022 07:13:01 +0000, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Mainly because it's the only such disease where in plenty of areas 10%
>>>>>>> of the population have it during any one week (it's 11% here). Also
>>>>>>> apparently the second most infectious one, behind measles.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Strange that we've eliminated smallpox, ebola, even measles to some
>>>>>> extent, but given up on covid.
>>>>>
>>>>> Because it's evolved to become a pretty benign disease, much like the
>>>>> common cold. We've not tried to eliminate colds,
>>>>> either.
>>>>
>>>> They've been trying to cure colds for around 70 years, they haven't
>>>> succeeded yet.
>>>>
>>>
>>> AIUI one of the problems is that there are around 400 different Common
>>> Colds with very similar symptoms but caused by at least four totally
>>> different classes of virus.
>>>
>>>
>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver
>>>
>>
>> I've heard something similar. And while I understand that some strains
>> of the rhinovirus are technically treatable, the proliferation of other
>> strains pretty much cancels out any real benefit.
>>
>> The task, AIUI, is to understand the structure of the rhinovirus itself.
>> That would subsequently allow research for treatment across the board.
>> Unfortunately, however, they have not successfully cracked that.
>
> What would be the incentive for performing such expensive research?
>
> Would it save a lot of lives? No
>
> Would it make the pharma that developed such products a good financial
> return? Probably not.
>

State backed research may crack the problem. The AZ jab was developed with
UK state funding on a shoe string budget. Vaccine research is really taking
off now, including vaccines against some cancers. Tackling the common cold
viruses might not now be so technically difficult. The best analogy I can
think of is you’d be laughed at thirty years ago if you said everyone would
be making video calls from handheld devices.

On Sat, 26 Mar 2022 13:27:41 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:

>In message <kjcm3hpkbjgcv7cbmjo0k7k118f006k2bs@4ax.com>, at 14:56:58 on
>Wed, 23 Mar 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>> Masks stop droplets, which is almost irrelevant for Covid.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> They stop 95% of virus sized particulates, too.
>>>>>
>>>>> Not most masks. Only a tiny minority of the public, or even hospital staff,
>>>>> wear properly fitted N95 respirator masks.
>>>
>>>Here we go again "properly fitted". Maybe you don't know how to
>>>properly fit one, but others do.
>>
>>Really? It's not in evidence.
>
>Snip, basic arse-covering advice at about the level of "Pop tarts might
>be hot when heated".

You, of course, inevitably exhibit perfection, with your professionally fitted, new N95 masks, worn whenever you're
within sight of members of the public, but you've obviously not noticed that most members of the public and medical
staff, don't wear N95 masks, and many members of the public didn't cover their noses (such members of the public have
probably stopped wearing masks at all now).

On Sat, 26 Mar 2022 13:24:20 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:

>In message <t1f13m$rl6$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:42:46 on Wed, 23 Mar
>2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <t1es95$lln$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:20:21 on Wed, 23 Mar
>>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>
>>>>> As for new vaccines, they seem to have dropped off the news cycle. Last
>>>>> I heard (and I'm not following it closely) they were declining to play
>>>>> "whack a mole" with new variants, on the basis by the time a new vaccine
>>>>> was on the streets that variant would have come and gone.
>>>>
>>>> Not so. In your diligent study of the scientific literature, this must
>>>> have escaped you:
>>>> <https://www.clinicaltrialsarena.com/news/pfizer-omicron-vaccine-trial/>
>>>
>>> Timelines never were your strong point, but good for Pfizer trying.
>>
>>As always, you're surly and ungrateful when someone educates you.
>
>I'm always grateful for well informed education.

Never, not once, have you done so!

>
>>I'm sure you were really popular among your colleagues when you were
>>still employed!
>
>Ad-hom noted (did you take the same approach with colleagues when you
>were working), I've always been very popular with colleagues as it
>happens, and quite unusually with colleagues both up and down the food
>chain.

That's why your jobs never lasted long?

>
>> No wonder you had so many, short-lived jobs in your brief period of
>>employment.
>
>Ad-hom noted (sure sign of clutching at straws). My employment
>continues, so that's around 48 years now. More than enough to have
>earned a full state pension.

Make your mind up: are you retired or not? You keep changing your story. I take it you're involuntarily long-term
unemployed, but occasionally get some minimum wage, low value work.

>
>Of course, the way my career evolved (always seeking out the latest
>bleeding edge technologies) is inherent in my ability to adapt and learn
>about multiple industries. I know people who spent a lifetime in just
>one industry find it hard to understand why someone could know so much
>about so many, but after a year or two one can get stuck in a rut, and
>it's time to move on.
>
>>>> Masks stop droplets, which is almost irrelevant for Covid.
>>>
>>> They stop 95% of virus sized particulates, too.
>>
>>Not most masks. Only a tiny minority of the public, or even hospital staff,
>>wear properly fitted N95 respirator masks.
>
>But isn't an argument against those of us who wear properly fitted
>ones. I have to admire the way you so easily dismiss the ability of
>professionals to do something as trivial as wearing mask properly.

So, are you telling us that all medical staff wear properly fitting N95 masks whenever they're on duty? Surely, even
you don't think that?

>
>How do any of them even manage to tie their shoelaces?

How do you manage to exhibit such stupidity?

On Sun, 27 Mar 2022 12:18:26 -0000 (UTC), Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:

>Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, 25 Mar 2022 17:18:52 +0000, "hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk" <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> On 22/03/2022 19:23, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
>>>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> On 22/03/2022 13:47, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>> On Tue, 22 Mar 2022 12:06:18 +0000, mechanic <mechanic@example.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, 22 Mar 2022 07:13:01 +0000, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Mainly because it's the only such disease where in plenty of areas 10%
>>>>>>>> of the population have it during any one week (it's 11% here). Also
>>>>>>>> apparently the second most infectious one, behind measles.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Strange that we've eliminated smallpox, ebola, even measles to some
>>>>>>> extent, but given up on covid.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Because it's evolved to become a pretty benign disease, much like the
>>>>>> common cold. We've not tried to eliminate colds,
>>>>>> either.
>>>>>
>>>>> They've been trying to cure colds for around 70 years, they haven't
>>>>> succeeded yet.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> AIUI one of the problems is that there are around 400 different Common
>>>> Colds with very similar symptoms but caused by at least four totally
>>>> different classes of virus.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver
>>>>
>>>
>>> I've heard something similar. And while I understand that some strains
>>> of the rhinovirus are technically treatable, the proliferation of other
>>> strains pretty much cancels out any real benefit.
>>>
>>> The task, AIUI, is to understand the structure of the rhinovirus itself.
>>> That would subsequently allow research for treatment across the board.
>>> Unfortunately, however, they have not successfully cracked that.
>>
>> What would be the incentive for performing such expensive research?
>>
>> Would it save a lot of lives? No
>>
>> Would it make the pharma that developed such products a good financial
>> return? Probably not.
>>
>
>State backed research may crack the problem. The AZ jab was developed with
>UK state funding on a shoe string budget. Vaccine research is really taking
>off now, including vaccines against some cancers. Tackling the common cold
>viruses might not now be so technically difficult.

True, but why would I have a higher priority than the many diseases that do shorten lives?

> The best analogy I can
>think of is you’d be laughed at thirty years ago if you said everyone would
>be making video calls from handheld devices.

Yes, but that was driven by the commercial returns available to device manufacturers and telcos.

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 26 Mar 2022 13:27:41 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> In message <kjcm3hpkbjgcv7cbmjo0k7k118f006k2bs@4ax.com>, at 14:56:58 on
>> Wed, 23 Mar 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>> Masks stop droplets, which is almost irrelevant for Covid.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> They stop 95% of virus sized particulates, too.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not most masks. Only a tiny minority of the public, or even hospital staff,
>>>>>> wear properly fitted N95 respirator masks.
>>>>
>>>> Here we go again "properly fitted". Maybe you don't know how to
>>>> properly fit one, but others do.
>>>
>>> Really? It's not in evidence.
>>
>> Snip, basic arse-covering advice at about the level of "Pop tarts might
>> be hot when heated".
>
> You, of course, inevitably exhibit perfection, with your professionally
> fitted, new N95 masks, worn whenever you're
> within sight of members of the public, but you've obviously not noticed
> that most members of the public and medical
> staff, don't wear N95 masks, and many members of the public didn't cover
> their noses (such members of the public have
> probably stopped wearing masks at all now).
>

One thing I read amused me: “seeing how many people wear their masks
explains how contraception frequently fails”.

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 27 Mar 2022 12:18:26 -0000 (UTC), Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Fri, 25 Mar 2022 17:18:52 +0000, "hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk"
>>> <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 22/03/2022 19:23, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
>>>>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> On 22/03/2022 13:47, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>> On Tue, 22 Mar 2022 12:06:18 +0000, mechanic <mechanic@example.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tue, 22 Mar 2022 07:13:01 +0000, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Mainly because it's the only such disease where in plenty of areas 10%
>>>>>>>>> of the population have it during any one week (it's 11% here). Also
>>>>>>>>> apparently the second most infectious one, behind measles.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Strange that we've eliminated smallpox, ebola, even measles to some
>>>>>>>> extent, but given up on covid.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Because it's evolved to become a pretty benign disease, much like the
>>>>>>> common cold. We've not tried to eliminate colds,
>>>>>>> either.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> They've been trying to cure colds for around 70 years, they haven't
>>>>>> succeeded yet.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> AIUI one of the problems is that there are around 400 different Common
>>>>> Colds with very similar symptoms but caused by at least four totally
>>>>> different classes of virus.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I've heard something similar. And while I understand that some strains
>>>> of the rhinovirus are technically treatable, the proliferation of other
>>>> strains pretty much cancels out any real benefit.
>>>>
>>>> The task, AIUI, is to understand the structure of the rhinovirus itself.
>>>> That would subsequently allow research for treatment across the board.
>>>> Unfortunately, however, they have not successfully cracked that.
>>>
>>> What would be the incentive for performing such expensive research?
>>>
>>> Would it save a lot of lives? No
>>>
>>> Would it make the pharma that developed such products a good financial
>>> return? Probably not.
>>>
>>
>> State backed research may crack the problem. The AZ jab was developed with
>> UK state funding on a shoe string budget. Vaccine research is really taking
>> off now, including vaccines against some cancers. Tackling the common cold
>> viruses might not now be so technically difficult.
>
> True, but why would I have a higher priority than the many diseases that do shorten lives?
>

Lots of state funded research isn’t done on the basis of priorities, or as
it is commonly known as “picking winners”. For all the criticism, UK
research funding does quite well in its outputs.

On Sun, 27 Mar 2022 12:42:10 -0000 (UTC), Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:

>Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sun, 27 Mar 2022 12:18:26 -0000 (UTC), Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 25 Mar 2022 17:18:52 +0000, "hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk"
>>>> <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 22/03/2022 19:23, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
>>>>>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 22/03/2022 13:47, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Tue, 22 Mar 2022 12:06:18 +0000, mechanic <mechanic@example.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 22 Mar 2022 07:13:01 +0000, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Mainly because it's the only such disease where in plenty of areas 10%
>>>>>>>>>> of the population have it during any one week (it's 11% here). Also
>>>>>>>>>> apparently the second most infectious one, behind measles.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Strange that we've eliminated smallpox, ebola, even measles to some
>>>>>>>>> extent, but given up on covid.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Because it's evolved to become a pretty benign disease, much like the
>>>>>>>> common cold. We've not tried to eliminate colds,
>>>>>>>> either.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> They've been trying to cure colds for around 70 years, they haven't
>>>>>>> succeeded yet.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> AIUI one of the problems is that there are around 400 different Common
>>>>>> Colds with very similar symptoms but caused by at least four totally
>>>>>> different classes of virus.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I've heard something similar. And while I understand that some strains
>>>>> of the rhinovirus are technically treatable, the proliferation of other
>>>>> strains pretty much cancels out any real benefit.
>>>>>
>>>>> The task, AIUI, is to understand the structure of the rhinovirus itself.
>>>>> That would subsequently allow research for treatment across the board.
>>>>> Unfortunately, however, they have not successfully cracked that.
>>>>
>>>> What would be the incentive for performing such expensive research?
>>>>
>>>> Would it save a lot of lives? No
>>>>
>>>> Would it make the pharma that developed such products a good financial
>>>> return? Probably not.
>>>>
>>>
>>> State backed research may crack the problem. The AZ jab was developed with
>>> UK state funding on a shoe string budget. Vaccine research is really taking
>>> off now, including vaccines against some cancers. Tackling the common cold
>>> viruses might not now be so technically difficult.
>>
>> True, but why would I have a higher priority than the many diseases that do shorten lives?
>>
>
>Lots of state funded research isn’t done on the basis of priorities, or as
>it is commonly known as “picking winners”. For all the criticism, UK
>research funding does quite well in its outputs.

Yes, definitely. It's the commercialisation of our academic research where we tend to fall down. Or, our innovative
start-ups sell out to foreign companies very early. Even if they go public, it's more likely to be on NASDAQ than in
London.

On Sun, 27 Mar 2022 12:39:08 -0000 (UTC), Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:

>Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, 26 Mar 2022 13:27:41 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> In message <kjcm3hpkbjgcv7cbmjo0k7k118f006k2bs@4ax.com>, at 14:56:58 on
>>> Wed, 23 Mar 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>> Masks stop droplets, which is almost irrelevant for Covid.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> They stop 95% of virus sized particulates, too.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Not most masks. Only a tiny minority of the public, or even hospital staff,
>>>>>>> wear properly fitted N95 respirator masks.
>>>>>
>>>>> Here we go again "properly fitted". Maybe you don't know how to
>>>>> properly fit one, but others do.
>>>>
>>>> Really? It's not in evidence.
>>>
>>> Snip, basic arse-covering advice at about the level of "Pop tarts might
>>> be hot when heated".
>>
>> You, of course, inevitably exhibit perfection, with your professionally
>> fitted, new N95 masks, worn whenever you're
>> within sight of members of the public, but you've obviously not noticed
>> that most members of the public and medical
>> staff, don't wear N95 masks, and many members of the public didn't cover
>> their noses (such members of the public have
>> probably stopped wearing masks at all now).
>>
>
>One thing I read amused me: “seeing how many people wear their masks
>explains how contraception frequently fails”.

<chuckle>

On Sun, 27 Mar 2022 00:57:48 -0000 (UTC), Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:

>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <fd2h3hl91adh3h8qap289cdlulek0i9ppq@4ax.com>, at 14:26:56 on
>> Mon, 21 Mar 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>
>>
>>>> What happened to Herd immunity. HaHa! Bonk.
>>>
>>> We've pretty much reached herd immunity, thanks to the vaccines. That's
>>> why most of us don't worry about it any more.
>>
>> Not even the 1:20 (or whatever) who today have Covid? Some catching
>> Omicron for a second time.
>>
>
>Sure, though it's probably a different strain each time. Face it: Omicron
>is all around us, and we'll all be exposed to it repeatedly. You can't hide
>from it, so learn to live with it.
>
>I got pinged today (for the first time). Apparently I encountered a
>positive case last Sunday, when I was in busy airports, buses, a full
>plane, etc. Did I catch it? I don't know, and am not worried. I rather
>hope I did, as it'll act as an Omicron booster shot.

Follow-up:

I did a LFT test today, and tested positive (for the first time). I'm delighted, as it will act as my Omicron booster
shot, and my immunity level will be even higher than before. Needless to say, the symptoms are no more than minor winter
sniffles.

Excellent!

On Sun, 27 Mar 2022 11:33:55 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:

>In message <S+NBJpiaByPiFA7N@perry.uk>, at 14:16:58 on Sat, 26 Mar 2022,
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> remarked:
>
>>I suspect the adverts must be for people in East London wanting to go to
>>the seaside via Colchester.
>>
>>Meanwhile, GA has sawn off the branch it's sitting on, as far as people
>>here are concerned, with this news about Easter:
>>
>> "Railway lines between King's Lynn and London will be blocked
>> this Easter bank holiday weekend.
>>
>> Works are taking place in the East of England, blocking lines
>> through Cambridgeshire, Essex and Hertfordshire.
>>
>> Greater Anglia passengers are set to face a full line closure
>> all weekend at Bishop's Stortford - between Cambridge and
>> London Liverpool Street.
>>
>> On Easter Sunday (April 17), works are taking place on the line
>> between Ely and King's Lynn.
>>
>> There will be no Great Northern or Greater Anglia trains to
>> Littleport, Downham Market, Watlington or King's Lynn when the
>> line is closed."
>
>The railways collectively doing warm-up today:
>
>Reduced service on ECML/GN/TL, crawling round the Hertford Loop.
>Buses from Cambridge to Ely.
>Buses from Peterborough to Ely.
>Ally Pally to Welwyn Garden City bustituted, and separately WGC to
> Stevenage and Hertford North to Stevenage (locals)
>
>It's enough to convince our jolly holiday makers (or even just "let's go
>see mum on Mothers Day" to buy a car and never try to use a train ever
>again.

As always, you've only looked at your local TOCs. It turns out that other routes are disrupted, too, even Manchester
Metrolink (the trams weren't serving Piccadilly yesterday).

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 27 Mar 2022 00:57:48 -0000 (UTC), Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <fd2h3hl91adh3h8qap289cdlulek0i9ppq@4ax.com>, at 14:26:56 on
>>> Mon, 21 Mar 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>
>>>
>>>>> What happened to Herd immunity. HaHa! Bonk.
>>>>
>>>> We've pretty much reached herd immunity, thanks to the vaccines. That's
>>>> why most of us don't worry about it any more.
>>>
>>> Not even the 1:20 (or whatever) who today have Covid? Some catching
>>> Omicron for a second time.
>>>
>>
>> Sure, though it's probably a different strain each time. Face it: Omicron
>> is all around us, and we'll all be exposed to it repeatedly. You can't hide
>> from it, so learn to live with it.
>>
>> I got pinged today (for the first time). Apparently I encountered a
>> positive case last Sunday, when I was in busy airports, buses, a full
>> plane, etc. Did I catch it? I don't know, and am not worried. I rather
>> hope I did, as it'll act as an Omicron booster shot.
>
> Follow-up:
>
> I did a LFT test today, and tested positive (for the first time). I'm
> delighted, as it will act as my Omicron booster
> shot, and my immunity level will be even higher than before. Needless to
> say, the symptoms are no more than minor winter
> sniffles.
>
> Excellent!
>

It may get worse before it gets better, but I doubt it might get much
worse. I had a colleague at work who tested positive and proclaimed in the
morning he was fine. In a late afternoon video call he was bright red and
moaning that it was getting worse. He’s fully recovered now. Keep us
informed how it goes…

On Sun, 27 Mar 2022 13:39:49 -0000 (UTC), Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:

>Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sun, 27 Mar 2022 00:57:48 -0000 (UTC), Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <fd2h3hl91adh3h8qap289cdlulek0i9ppq@4ax.com>, at 14:26:56 on
>>>> Mon, 21 Mar 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> What happened to Herd immunity. HaHa! Bonk.
>>>>>
>>>>> We've pretty much reached herd immunity, thanks to the vaccines. That's
>>>>> why most of us don't worry about it any more.
>>>>
>>>> Not even the 1:20 (or whatever) who today have Covid? Some catching
>>>> Omicron for a second time.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Sure, though it's probably a different strain each time. Face it: Omicron
>>> is all around us, and we'll all be exposed to it repeatedly. You can't hide
>>> from it, so learn to live with it.
>>>
>>> I got pinged today (for the first time). Apparently I encountered a
>>> positive case last Sunday, when I was in busy airports, buses, a full
>>> plane, etc. Did I catch it? I don't know, and am not worried. I rather
>>> hope I did, as it'll act as an Omicron booster shot.
>>
>> Follow-up:
>>
>> I did a LFT test today, and tested positive (for the first time). I'm
>> delighted, as it will act as my Omicron booster
>> shot, and my immunity level will be even higher than before. Needless to
>> say, the symptoms are no more than minor winter
>> sniffles.
>>
>> Excellent!
>>
>
>It may get worse before it gets better, but I doubt it might get much
>worse. I had a colleague at work who tested positive and proclaimed in the
>morning he was fine. In a late afternoon video call he was bright red and
>moaning that it was getting worse. He’s fully recovered now. Keep us
>informed how it goes…

Well, I probably caught it at least a week ago, while travelling, so I'm probably already past the worst. I simply
wouldn't have known had the NHS Covid app not pinged me yesterday (when I was on a train), prompting me to take a test
today. It's probably not the first time I've been infected, I just wouldn't know.

In message <t1pkmi$eed$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:18:26 on Sun, 27 Mar
2022, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:

>>> The task, AIUI, is to understand the structure of the rhinovirus itself.
>>> That would subsequently allow research for treatment across the board.
>>> Unfortunately, however, they have not successfully cracked that.
>>
>> What would be the incentive for performing such expensive research?
>>
>> Would it save a lot of lives? No
>>
>> Would it make the pharma that developed such products a good financial
>> return? Probably not.
>
>State backed research may crack the problem. The AZ jab was developed with
>UK state funding on a shoe string budget. Vaccine research is really taking
>off now, including vaccines against some cancers. Tackling the common cold
>viruses might not now be so technically difficult. The best analogy I can
>think of is you’d be laughed at thirty years ago if you said everyone would
>be making video calls from handheld devices.

Development cycles aren't the same in different industries/technologies.

To pick a hook to hang this on, Orange launched 27 years ago, and by
then there were plenty of people using mobile phones as modems. BT
launched landline videophones in 1993, so that's 29 years ago.

It doesn't take much to envisage the possibility of those two converging
within 20yrs, perhaps the surprise was it took so long.

On the other hand, fusion power has been "just around the corner" for
more than 50yrs.

Luckily, this graphic spans pretty much the 30yrs in question - lots of
food for thought. Now, where can I get that 3D video conferencing?

http://www.perry.co.uk/images/The-Future.jpg

"Higher resolution scanner" seems to be missing from their list.

And look! It has a train.
--
Roland Perry