Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> On 24/07/2023 19:05, Tweed wrote:
>> Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On 24/07/2023 17:48, Sam Wilson wrote:
>>>> Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> https://www.msn.com/en-gb/travel/news/rail-bosses-spend-10-000-a-week-on-flights-because-it-s-cheaper-than-trains/ar-AA1eguGE?cvid=af435715321741b0c7c5fc006593d853&ocid=winp2fptaskbar&ei=28
>>>>>
>>>>> Network rail executives spend £10000 a week on plane travel mainly on
>>>>> routes where they could have taken the train, e.g Birmingham to Glasgow.
>>>>>
>>>>> You couldn't make it up!
>>>>
>>>> That link takes me to a completely (relevant) content free page full of
>>>> scream headlines and adverts.
>>>>
>>>> BTW is there a C missing from the subject line or is this a comment on
>>>> drinking habits? I though most means of transport were considerably less
>>>> generous in that area these days.
>>>>
>>>> Sm
>>>>
>>> I appreciate the humour Sam.
>>>
>>> The link works as intended just now.
>>>
>>> The SOT was to acknowledge the post was indirectly rail related but you
>>> can't please 'em all.
>>>
>>
>> Standard class travel on a long journey is miserable - cramped seating and
>> a fairly high chance of sharing your journey with some anti social
>> specimens. First class travel is extremely expensive unless you are very
>> lucky with Advance tickets. The Birmingham Glasgow EasyJet flight is 40
>> minutes in the air and the seats are comfortable.
>>
> Agreed, but most will see the irony in Notwork Rail execs preferring to
> travel by air rather than the product of the industry they run!
>
NR aren’t directly responsible for the fares and rolling stock quality and
they are probably well aware of the quality of the product the travelling
public endure.

On 24/07/2023 19:34, Tweed wrote:
> Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 24/07/2023 19:05, Tweed wrote:
>>> Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 24/07/2023 17:48, Sam Wilson wrote:
>>>>> Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> https://www.msn.com/en-gb/travel/news/rail-bosses-spend-10-000-a-week-on-flights-because-it-s-cheaper-than-trains/ar-AA1eguGE?cvid=af435715321741b0c7c5fc006593d853&ocid=winp2fptaskbar&ei=28
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Network rail executives spend £10000 a week on plane travel mainly on
>>>>>> routes where they could have taken the train, e.g Birmingham to Glasgow.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You couldn't make it up!
>>>>>
>>>>> That link takes me to a completely (relevant) content free page full of
>>>>> scream headlines and adverts.
>>>>>
>>>>> BTW is there a C missing from the subject line or is this a comment on
>>>>> drinking habits? I though most means of transport were considerably less
>>>>> generous in that area these days.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sm
>>>>>
>>>> I appreciate the humour Sam.
>>>>
>>>> The link works as intended just now.
>>>>
>>>> The SOT was to acknowledge the post was indirectly rail related but you
>>>> can't please 'em all.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Standard class travel on a long journey is miserable - cramped seating and
>>> a fairly high chance of sharing your journey with some anti social
>>> specimens. First class travel is extremely expensive unless you are very
>>> lucky with Advance tickets. The Birmingham Glasgow EasyJet flight is 40
>>> minutes in the air and the seats are comfortable.
>>>
>> Agreed, but most will see the irony in Notwork Rail execs preferring to
>> travel by air rather than the product of the industry they run!
>>
> NR aren’t directly responsible for the fares and rolling stock quality and
> they are probably well aware of the quality of the product the travelling
> public endure.
>
Oh so nothing to do with them then guv'.

Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> On 24/07/2023 19:34, Tweed wrote:
>> Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On 24/07/2023 19:05, Tweed wrote:
>>>> Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> On 24/07/2023 17:48, Sam Wilson wrote:
>>>>>> Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> https://www.msn.com/en-gb/travel/news/rail-bosses-spend-10-000-a-week-on-flights-because-it-s-cheaper-than-trains/ar-AA1eguGE?cvid=af435715321741b0c7c5fc006593d853&ocid=winp2fptaskbar&ei=28
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Network rail executives spend £10000 a week on plane travel mainly on
>>>>>>> routes where they could have taken the train, e.g Birmingham to Glasgow.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You couldn't make it up!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That link takes me to a completely (relevant) content free page full of
>>>>>> scream headlines and adverts.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> BTW is there a C missing from the subject line or is this a comment on
>>>>>> drinking habits? I though most means of transport were considerably less
>>>>>> generous in that area these days.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sm
>>>>>>
>>>>> I appreciate the humour Sam.
>>>>>
>>>>> The link works as intended just now.
>>>>>
>>>>> The SOT was to acknowledge the post was indirectly rail related but you
>>>>> can't please 'em all.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Standard class travel on a long journey is miserable - cramped seating and
>>>> a fairly high chance of sharing your journey with some anti social
>>>> specimens. First class travel is extremely expensive unless you are very
>>>> lucky with Advance tickets. The Birmingham Glasgow EasyJet flight is 40
>>>> minutes in the air and the seats are comfortable.
>>>>
>>> Agreed, but most will see the irony in Notwork Rail execs preferring to
>>> travel by air rather than the product of the industry they run!
>>>
>> NR aren’t directly responsible for the fares and rolling stock quality and
>> they are probably well aware of the quality of the product the travelling
>> public endure.
>>
> Oh so nothing to do with them then guv'.
>

Not really, no.

On 24/07/2023 13:25, Recliner wrote:
>> Network rail executives spend £10000 a week on plane travel mainly on
>> routes where they could have taken the train, e.g Birmingham to Glasgow.
>>
>> You couldn't make it up!
>
> I'd have thought they got priv tickets? Maybe they use the plane because it's much faster and more reliable?
Priv isn't to be used for work travel, only leisure. The exception being
Priv season tickets for travelling between home station and work location.
Additionally, newer entrants to NR probably do not receive Privilege
benefits.
Source: worked for the railway for 24 years!
Cheers,
--
Rob
"I have never understood why it should be necessary to become irrational
in order to prove that you care, or, indeed, why it should be necessary
to prove it at all." - Avon, Blake's 7

On 24/07/2023 15:51, Jack Harry Teesdale wrote:

> But can you imagine airline executives travelling by train, with the
> possible exception of HEX?

I've seen pics of O'Leary apparently on a UZ train.
--
Arthur Figgis

In message <u9mfj6$omu5$1@dont-email.me>, at 19:23:31 on Mon, 24 Jul
2023, Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> remarked:
>On 24/07/2023 19:05, Tweed wrote:
>> Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On 24/07/2023 17:48, Sam Wilson wrote:
>>>> Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>https://www.msn.com/en-gb/travel/news/rail-bosses-spend-10-000-a-wee
>>>>>k-on-flights-because-it-s-cheaper-than-trains/ar-AA1eguGE?cvid=af435
>>>>>715321741b0c7c5fc006593d853&ocid=winp2fptaskbar&ei=28
>>>>>
>>>>> Network rail executives spend £10000 a week on plane travel mainly on
>>>>> routes where they could have taken the train, e.g Birmingham to Glasgow.
>>>>>
>>>>> You couldn't make it up!
>>>>
>>>> That link takes me to a completely (relevant) content free page full of
>>>> scream headlines and adverts.
>>>>
>>>> BTW is there a C missing from the subject line or is this a comment on
>>>> drinking habits? I though most means of transport were considerably less
>>>> generous in that area these days.
>>>>
>>>> Sm
>>>>
>>> I appreciate the humour Sam.
>>>
>>> The link works as intended just now.
>>>
>>> The SOT was to acknowledge the post was indirectly rail related but you
>>> can't please 'em all.
>>>
>> Standard class travel on a long journey is miserable - cramped
>>seating and a fairly high chance of sharing your journey with some
>>anti social specimens. First class travel is extremely expensive
>>unless you are very lucky with Advance tickets. The Birmingham
>>Glasgow EasyJet flight is 40 minutes in the air and the seats are
>>comfortable.
>>
>Agreed, but most will see the irony in Notwork Rail execs preferring to
>travel by air rather than the product of the industry they run!

This is the "must use your own product" fallacy. Assembly line workers
at Rolls Royce would be a bit embarrassed it that was all they were
allowed to drive to work, meanwhile the Managing Director of the cycle
factory isn't compelled to pedal to work.

I'm told many train drivers even get a taxi to work. The utter shame of
it!
--
Roland Perry

In message <u9mg3s$om4q$1@dont-email.me>, at 19:32:29 on Mon, 24 Jul
2023, Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> remarked:
>On 24/07/2023 13:25, Recliner wrote:
>> On Mon, 24 Jul 2023 13:08:09 +0100, Jack Harry Teesdale
>><noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>https://www.msn.com/en-gb/travel/news/rail-bosses-spend-10-000-a-week-
>>>on-flights-because-it-s-cheaper-than-trains/ar-AA1eguGE?cvid=af4357153
>>>21741b0c7c5fc006593d853&ocid=winp2fptaskbar&ei=28
>>>
>>> Network rail executives spend £10000 a week on plane travel mainly on
>>> routes where they could have taken the train, e.g Birmingham to Glasgow.
>>>
>>> You couldn't make it up!

>> I'd have thought they got priv tickets? Maybe they use the plane
>>because it's much faster and more reliable?
>
>My first thoughts were does any organisation really need so many "out
>of office" trips each week, when it is often cheaper / easier to
>conduct business via the internet ?

Because Business to Business meetings with comparative strangers
doesn't work as well as IT zealots claim it does. And sometimes
there's absolutely no substitute for site visits.
--
Roland Perry

In message <ki856tF6i4cU1@mid.individual.net>, at 21:28:13 on Mon, 24
Jul 2023, Robert <monstoor@spammedia.com> remarked:
>On 24/07/2023 13:25, Recliner wrote:
>
>>> Network rail executives spend £10000 a week on plane travel mainly on
>>> routes where they could have taken the train, e.g Birmingham to Glasgow.
>>>
>>> You couldn't make it up!

>> I'd have thought they got priv tickets? Maybe they use the plane
>>because it's much faster and more reliable?
>
>Priv isn't to be used for work travel,

Surely you mean "commuting to work"? Travel while *at* work is
traditionally paid for by the employer.

>only leisure. The exception being Priv season tickets for travelling
>between home station and work location.

A couple of years ago I was chatting to the ticket office staff at my
local station, and mentioned the unreliability of the service (on that
particular day because network Rail had a one week possession to do
routine repairs on a bridge). "Yes", they cheerfully said. "I used to
get the train to work, but now I drive because I was always arriving
late".

There's a chap in van goes round all the unmanned stations fettling the
TVMs, not doubt because the supplies he needs are too much to hand
carry, and with 1tph he'd spend most of the day waiting 50 minutes for
the following train to the next station (rinse and repeat).

>Additionally, newer entrants to NR probably do not receive Privilege
>benefits.
>
>Source: worked for the railway for 24 years!
>
>Cheers,

--
Roland Perry

On Mon, 24 Jul 2023 19:23:31 +0100, Jack Harry Teesdale
<noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

>On 24/07/2023 19:05, Tweed wrote:
>> Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On 24/07/2023 17:48, Sam Wilson wrote:
>>>> Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> https://www.msn.com/en-gb/travel/news/rail-bosses-spend-10-000-a-week-on-flights-because-it-s-cheaper-than-trains/ar-AA1eguGE?cvid=af435715321741b0c7c5fc006593d853&ocid=winp2fptaskbar&ei=28
>>>>>

>>>
>>
>> Standard class travel on a long journey is miserable - cramped seating and
>> a fairly high chance of sharing your journey with some anti social
>> specimens. First class travel is extremely expensive unless you are very
>> lucky with Advance tickets. The Birmingham Glasgow EasyJet flight is 40
>> minutes in the air and the seats are comfortable.
>>
>Agreed, but most will see the irony in Notwork Rail execs preferring to
>travel by air rather than the product of the industry they run!

But they don't run the industry. They merely provide the
infrastructure and have little to do with the passenger services
beyond providing the paths and managing the largest stations.
Should National Highways staff avoid trains and aircraft?

On Mon, 24 Jul 2023 21:28:13 +0100, Robert <monstoor@spammedia.com>
wrote:

>On 24/07/2023 13:25, Recliner wrote:
>
>>> Network rail executives spend £10000 a week on plane travel mainly on
>>> routes where they could have taken the train, e.g Birmingham to Glasgow.
>>>
>>> You couldn't make it up!
>>
>> I'd have thought they got priv tickets? Maybe they use the plane because it's much faster and more reliable?
>
>Priv isn't to be used for work travel, only leisure. The exception being
>Priv season tickets for travelling between home station and work location.

I assume this would be treated as a taxable benefit in kind?
>
>Additionally, newer entrants to NR probably do not receive Privilege
>benefits.
>
>Source: worked for the railway for 24 years!
>
>Cheers,

On 24/07/2023 17:19, Scott wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Jul 2023 16:12:41 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 24 Jul 2023 17:06:47 +0100
>> Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On 24/07/2023 16:10, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>> In message <mbrsbihspnenggbdtkm4ll2kqtu0cqdagq@4ax.com>, at 13:25:45 on
>>>> Mon, 24 Jul 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>> On Mon, 24 Jul 2023 13:08:09 +0100, Jack Harry Teesdale
>>>>> <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.msn.com/en-gb/travel/news/rail-bosses-spend-10-000-a-week-o
>>>>>> n-flights-because-it-s-cheaper-than-trains/ar-AA1eguGE?cvid=af435715321
>>>>>> 741b0c7c5fc006593d853&ocid=winp2fptaskbar&ei=28
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Network rail executives spend £10000 a week on plane travel mainly on
>>>>>> routes where they could have taken the train, e.g Birmingham to Glasgow.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You couldn't make it up!
>>>>>
>>>>> I'd have thought they got priv tickets?
>>>>
>>>> Whether they do not, I'm pretty sure Network Rail is paying, not the Execs.
>>>>
>>>>> Maybe they use the plane because it's much faster and more reliable?
>>>>
>>>> One of the most egregious wastes of money would be to pay an exec to
>>>> twiddle their thumbs on a long distance train, when flying would take
>>>> half the time, and even allow a day trip rather than two days out of
>>>> their diary.
>>>
>>> We are back to the old argument as to whether it is quicker to travel
>>> between fixed points by rail or air. You need to take into account the
>>> additional time getting to and from airports from and city centres,
>>> these days 'executives' need not be'twiddling their fingers' most now
>>> can make pnone calls and use the internet on the train which is not
>>> always possible in a plane.
>>
>> These days the enviromental cost matters too and the plane fails miserably
>> on that count.
>>
> What about reputational risk if the BBC decides to make a documentary
> about Network Rail's air miles?

They could do one about our UK Prime Minister's air miles at part two.

On 24/07/2023 19:05, Tweed wrote:
> Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 24/07/2023 17:48, Sam Wilson wrote:
>>> Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> https://www.msn.com/en-gb/travel/news/rail-bosses-spend-10-000-a-week-on-flights-because-it-s-cheaper-than-trains/ar-AA1eguGE?cvid=af435715321741b0c7c5fc006593d853&ocid=winp2fptaskbar&ei=28
>>>>
>>>> Network rail executives spend £10000 a week on plane travel mainly on
>>>> routes where they could have taken the train, e.g Birmingham to Glasgow.
>>>>
>>>> You couldn't make it up!
>>>
>>> That link takes me to a completely (relevant) content free page full of
>>> scream headlines and adverts.
>>>
>>> BTW is there a C missing from the subject line or is this a comment on
>>> drinking habits? I though most means of transport were considerably less
>>> generous in that area these days.
>>>
>>> Sm
>>>
>> I appreciate the humour Sam.
>>
>> The link works as intended just now.
>>
>> The SOT was to acknowledge the post was indirectly rail related but you
>> can't please 'em all.
>>
>
> Standard class travel on a long journey is miserable - cramped seating and
> a fairly high chance of sharing your journey with some anti social
> specimens. First class travel is extremely expensive unless you are very
> lucky with Advance tickets. The Birmingham Glasgow EasyJet flight is 40
> minutes in the air and the seats are comfortable.
>
It might be 40 minutes in the air but it's much longer when you have to
include early checkin and travel to and from the airport.

In message <s5pubilt4a8ba9a8o7ee8b8urkhq7784g7@4ax.com>, at 07:02:10 on
Tue, 25 Jul 2023, Ken <ken@birchanger.com> remarked:
>On Mon, 24 Jul 2023 19:23:31 +0100, Jack Harry Teesdale
><noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>On 24/07/2023 19:05, Tweed wrote:
>>> Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 24/07/2023 17:48, Sam Wilson wrote:
>>>>> Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>https://www.msn.com/en-gb/travel/news/rail-bosses-spend-10-000-a-we
>>>>>>ek-on-flights-because-it-s-cheaper-than-trains/ar-AA1eguGE?cvid=af4
>>>>>>35715321741b0c7c5fc006593d853&ocid=winp2fptaskbar&ei=28
>>>
>>> Standard class travel on a long journey is miserable - cramped seating and
>>> a fairly high chance of sharing your journey with some anti social
>>> specimens. First class travel is extremely expensive unless you are very
>>> lucky with Advance tickets. The Birmingham Glasgow EasyJet flight is 40
>>> minutes in the air and the seats are comfortable.
>>>
>>Agreed, but most will see the irony in Notwork Rail execs preferring to
>>travel by air rather than the product of the industry they run!
>
>But they don't run the industry. They merely provide the
>infrastructure and have little to do with the passenger services
>beyond providing the paths and managing the largest stations.
>Should National Highways staff avoid trains and aircraft?

Definitely avoid buses (despite them running on the Highways), as
they'll never get to where they need to be, in a timely fashion.
--
Roland Perry

On 25/07/2023 06:07, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <u9mfj6$omu5$1@dont-email.me>, at 19:23:31 on Mon, 24 Jul
> 2023, Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> remarked:
>> Agreed, but most will see the irony in Notwork Rail execs preferring
>> to travel by air rather than the product of the industry they run!
>
> This is the "must use your own product" fallacy. Assembly line workers
> at Rolls Royce would be a bit embarrassed it that was all they were
> allowed to drive to work, meanwhile the Managing Director of the cycle
> factory isn't compelled to pedal to work.

I've learnt a lot by using my department's own products and recommend it
where appropriate. Obviously, if you need to insert a screw but you
only make hammers, you need someone else's product.

> I'm told many train drivers even get a taxi to work. The utter shame of it!

Because there aren't any trains until the drivers turn up.

Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
> On 24/07/2023 17:19, Scott wrote:
>> On Mon, 24 Jul 2023 16:12:41 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 24 Jul 2023 17:06:47 +0100
>>> Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 24/07/2023 16:10, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>> In message <mbrsbihspnenggbdtkm4ll2kqtu0cqdagq@4ax.com>, at 13:25:45 on
>>>>> Mon, 24 Jul 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>> On Mon, 24 Jul 2023 13:08:09 +0100, Jack Harry Teesdale
>>>>>> <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.msn.com/en-gb/travel/news/rail-bosses-spend-10-000-a-week-o
>>>>>>> n-flights-because-it-s-cheaper-than-trains/ar-AA1eguGE?cvid=af435715321
>>>>>>> 741b0c7c5fc006593d853&ocid=winp2fptaskbar&ei=28
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Network rail executives spend £10000 a week on plane travel mainly on
>>>>>>> routes where they could have taken the train, e.g Birmingham to Glasgow.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You couldn't make it up!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'd have thought they got priv tickets?
>>>>>
>>>>> Whether they do not, I'm pretty sure Network Rail is paying, not the Execs.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Maybe they use the plane because it's much faster and more reliable?
>>>>>
>>>>> One of the most egregious wastes of money would be to pay an exec to
>>>>> twiddle their thumbs on a long distance train, when flying would take
>>>>> half the time, and even allow a day trip rather than two days out of
>>>>> their diary.
>>>>
>>>> We are back to the old argument as to whether it is quicker to travel
>>>> between fixed points by rail or air. You need to take into account the
>>>> additional time getting to and from airports from and city centres,
>>>> these days 'executives' need not be'twiddling their fingers' most now
>>>> can make pnone calls and use the internet on the train which is not
>>>> always possible in a plane.
>>>
>>> These days the enviromental cost matters too and the plane fails miserably
>>> on that count.
>>>
>> What about reputational risk if the BBC decides to make a documentary
>> about Network Rail's air miles?
>
> They could do one about our UK Prime Minister's air miles at part two.
>

Which PM? Don't they all fly a lot? Just as one would expected of the CEO
of a large, nationwide organisation.

On Mon, 24 Jul 2023 18:05:27 +0100, Jack Harry Teesdale
<noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

>On 24/07/2023 18:04, Scott wrote:
>> On Mon, 24 Jul 2023 17:57:05 +0100, Jack Harry Teesdale
>> <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> On 24/07/2023 17:44, Scott wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 24 Jul 2023 17:23:16 +0100, Jack Harry Teesdale
>>>> <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 24/07/2023 17:19, Scott wrote:
>>>>>> On Mon, 24 Jul 2023 16:12:41 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, 24 Jul 2023 17:06:47 +0100
>>>>>>> Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 24/07/2023 16:10, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>>>> In message <mbrsbihspnenggbdtkm4ll2kqtu0cqdagq@4ax.com>, at 13:25:45 on
>>>>>>>>> Mon, 24 Jul 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 24 Jul 2023 13:08:09 +0100, Jack Harry Teesdale
>>>>>>>>>> <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.msn.com/en-gb/travel/news/rail-bosses-spend-10-000-a-week-o
>>>>>>>>>>> n-flights-because-it-s-cheaper-than-trains/ar-AA1eguGE?cvid=af435715321
>>>>>>>>>>> 741b0c7c5fc006593d853&ocid=winp2fptaskbar&ei=28
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Network rail executives spend £10000 a week on plane travel mainly on
>>>>>>>>>>> routes where they could have taken the train, e.g Birmingham to Glasgow.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> You couldn't make it up!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I'd have thought they got priv tickets?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Whether they do not, I'm pretty sure Network Rail is paying, not the Execs.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Maybe they use the plane because it's much faster and more reliable?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> One of the most egregious wastes of money would be to pay an exec to
>>>>>>>>> twiddle their thumbs on a long distance train, when flying would take
>>>>>>>>> half the time, and even allow a day trip rather than two days out of
>>>>>>>>> their diary.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We are back to the old argument as to whether it is quicker to travel
>>>>>>>> between fixed points by rail or air. You need to take into account the
>>>>>>>> additional time getting to and from airports from and city centres,
>>>>>>>> these days 'executives' need not be'twiddling their fingers' most now
>>>>>>>> can make pnone calls and use the internet on the train which is not
>>>>>>>> always possible in a plane.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> These days the enviromental cost matters too and the plane fails miserably
>>>>>>> on that count.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> What about reputational risk if the BBC decides to make a documentary
>>>>>> about Network Rail's air miles?
>>>>>
>>>>> Do Notwork Rail have much reputation left to protect?
>>>>
>>>> Yes, I am quite impressed with them.
>>>
>>> You must be easily impressed, most rail users think they are pants!
>>
>> I remember BR the 1960s when everything was run down and half the
>> network was either closed or about to close.
>
>Much like today then LOL

My recollection is of 'Withdrawal of Railway Passenger Services'
notices all over the place, moratorium on maintenance and a general
run down feel.

In message <u9ofor$146lq$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:38:51 on Tue, 25 Jul
2023, Certes <Certes@example.org> remarked:
>On 25/07/2023 06:07, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <u9mfj6$omu5$1@dont-email.me>, at 19:23:31 on Mon, 24 Jul
>>2023, Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> remarked:
>>> Agreed, but most will see the irony in Notwork Rail execs preferring
>>>to travel by air rather than the product of the industry they run!

>> This is the "must use your own product" fallacy. Assembly line
>>workers at Rolls Royce would be a bit embarrassed it that was all
>>they were allowed to drive to work, meanwhile the Managing Director
>>of the cycle factory isn't compelled to pedal to work.
>
>I've learnt a lot by using my department's own products and recommend it
>where appropriate. Obviously, if you need to insert a screw but you
>only make hammers, you need someone else's product.

It depends a bit how the company's products by happenstance align with
the company's requirments in-house requirements.

Famously, the "Joyce" word processor we designed in the mid-80's was
targeted at folk like the Chairman's PA, who could be more productive if
given a typewriter replacement. And the firm would never have spent the
equivalent of Joyce's annual wage buying her an IBM PC, Centronics
Printer and a copy of a precursor to Microsoft Word (WordStar would have
been the main candidate).

The rest, as they say, is history.

>> I'm told many train drivers even get a taxi to work. The utter shame of it!
>
>Because there aren't any trains until the drivers turn up.

Similarly, the Network Rail employees will probably find that by the
time they've done their day's work in Glasgow (having only arrived at
lunchtime because it's a five and a half hour outbound trip) they've
missed the last useful train back to Milton Keynes. But might be able to
make he last flight from the airport (20:30 M'lud).
--
Roland Perry

In message <u9o65p$1369u$2@dont-email.me>, at 10:55:05 on Tue, 25 Jul
2023, Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> remarked:
>On 24/07/2023 19:05, Tweed wrote:
>> Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On 24/07/2023 17:48, Sam Wilson wrote:
>>>> Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>https://www.msn.com/en-gb/travel/news/rail-bosses-spend-10-000-a-wee
>>>>>k-on-flights-because-it-s-cheaper-than-trains/ar-AA1eguGE?cvid=af435
>>>>>715321741b0c7c5fc006593d853&ocid=winp2fptaskbar&ei=28
>>>>>
>>>>> Network rail executives spend £10000 a week on plane travel mainly on
>>>>> routes where they could have taken the train, e.g Birmingham to Glasgow.
>>>>>
>>>>> You couldn't make it up!
>>>>
>>>> That link takes me to a completely (relevant) content free page full of
>>>> scream headlines and adverts.
>>>>
>>>> BTW is there a C missing from the subject line or is this a comment on
>>>> drinking habits? I though most means of transport were considerably less
>>>> generous in that area these days.
>>>>
>>>> Sm
>>>>
>>> I appreciate the humour Sam.
>>>
>>> The link works as intended just now.
>>>
>>> The SOT was to acknowledge the post was indirectly rail related but you
>>> can't please 'em all.
>>>
>> Standard class travel on a long journey is miserable - cramped
>>seating and a fairly high chance of sharing your journey with some
>>anti social specimens. First class travel is extremely expensive
>>unless you are very lucky with Advance tickets. The Birmingham
>>Glasgow EasyJet flight is 40 minutes in the air and the seats are
>>comfortable.
>>
>It might be 40 minutes in the air but it's much longer when you have to
>include early checkin and travel to and from the airport.

<Yawn> Domestic flights don't require you to be at regional airports
more than 45 minutes ahead - and obviously you'd have no checked
baggage.

An airport like Edinburgh or Glasgow isn't necessarily any more
lengthy to get to from a typical client site than the railway
stations, especially by taxi.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
> In message <u9o65p$1369u$2@dont-email.me>, at 10:55:05 on Tue, 25 Jul
> 2023, Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> remarked:
>> On 24/07/2023 19:05, Tweed wrote:
>>> Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 24/07/2023 17:48, Sam Wilson wrote:
>>>>> Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.msn.com/en-gb/travel/news/rail-bosses-spend-10-000-a-wee
>>>>>> k-on-flights-because-it-s-cheaper-than-trains/ar-AA1eguGE?cvid=af435
>>>>>> 715321741b0c7c5fc006593d853&ocid=winp2fptaskbar&ei=28
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Network rail executives spend £10000 a week on plane travel mainly on
>>>>>> routes where they could have taken the train, e.g Birmingham to Glasgow.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You couldn't make it up!
>>>>>
>>>>> That link takes me to a completely (relevant) content free page full of
>>>>> scream headlines and adverts.
>>>>>
>>>>> BTW is there a C missing from the subject line or is this a comment on
>>>>> drinking habits? I though most means of transport were considerably less
>>>>> generous in that area these days.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sm
>>>>>
>>>> I appreciate the humour Sam.
>>>>
>>>> The link works as intended just now.
>>>>
>>>> The SOT was to acknowledge the post was indirectly rail related but you
>>>> can't please 'em all.
>>>>
>>> Standard class travel on a long journey is miserable - cramped
>>> seating and a fairly high chance of sharing your journey with some
>>> anti social specimens. First class travel is extremely expensive
>>> unless you are very lucky with Advance tickets. The Birmingham
>>> Glasgow EasyJet flight is 40 minutes in the air and the seats are
>>> comfortable.
>>>
>> It might be 40 minutes in the air but it's much longer when you have to
>> include early checkin and travel to and from the airport.
>
> <Yawn> Domestic flights don't require you to be at regional airports
> more than 45 minutes ahead - and obviously you'd have no checked
> baggage.
>
> An airport like Edinburgh or Glasgow isn't necessarily any more
> lengthy to get to from a typical client site than the railway
> stations, especially by taxi.

And despite all the comments about airports, I find waiting in them more
pleasant than waiting around in railway stations.

On Tue, 25 Jul 2023 17:05:23 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
<usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:

>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>> In message <u9o65p$1369u$2@dont-email.me>, at 10:55:05 on Tue, 25 Jul
>> 2023, Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> remarked:
>>> On 24/07/2023 19:05, Tweed wrote:
>>>> Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> On 24/07/2023 17:48, Sam Wilson wrote:
>>>>>> Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.msn.com/en-gb/travel/news/rail-bosses-spend-10-000-a-wee
>>>>>>> k-on-flights-because-it-s-cheaper-than-trains/ar-AA1eguGE?cvid=af435
>>>>>>> 715321741b0c7c5fc006593d853&ocid=winp2fptaskbar&ei=28
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Network rail executives spend £10000 a week on plane travel mainly on
>>>>>>> routes where they could have taken the train, e.g Birmingham to Glasgow.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You couldn't make it up!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That link takes me to a completely (relevant) content free page full of
>>>>>> scream headlines and adverts.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> BTW is there a C missing from the subject line or is this a comment on
>>>>>> drinking habits? I though most means of transport were considerably less
>>>>>> generous in that area these days.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sm
>>>>>>
>>>>> I appreciate the humour Sam.
>>>>>
>>>>> The link works as intended just now.
>>>>>
>>>>> The SOT was to acknowledge the post was indirectly rail related but you
>>>>> can't please 'em all.
>>>>>
>>>> Standard class travel on a long journey is miserable - cramped
>>>> seating and a fairly high chance of sharing your journey with some
>>>> anti social specimens. First class travel is extremely expensive
>>>> unless you are very lucky with Advance tickets. The Birmingham
>>>> Glasgow EasyJet flight is 40 minutes in the air and the seats are
>>>> comfortable.
>>>>
>>> It might be 40 minutes in the air but it's much longer when you have to
>>> include early checkin and travel to and from the airport.
>>
>> <Yawn> Domestic flights don't require you to be at regional airports
>> more than 45 minutes ahead - and obviously you'd have no checked
>> baggage.
>>
>> An airport like Edinburgh or Glasgow isn't necessarily any more
>> lengthy to get to from a typical client site than the railway
>> stations, especially by taxi.
>
>And despite all the comments about airports, I find waiting in them more
>pleasant than waiting around in railway stations.

I disagree. Stations are more interesting places for people watching!

On 25.07.23 07:07, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <u9mfj6$omu5$1@dont-email.me>, at 19:23:31 on Mon, 24 Jul
> 2023, Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> remarked:
>> On 24/07/2023 19:05, Tweed wrote:
>>> Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 24/07/2023 17:48, Sam Wilson wrote:
>>>>> Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.msn.com/en-gb/travel/news/rail-bosses-spend-10-000-a-wee
>>>>>> k-on-flights-because-it-s-cheaper-than-trains/ar-AA1eguGE?cvid=af435
>>>>>> 715321741b0c7c5fc006593d853&ocid=winp2fptaskbar&ei=28
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Network rail executives spend £10000 a week on plane travel mainly on
>>>>>> routes where they could have taken the train, e.g Birmingham to
>>>>>> Glasgow.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You couldn't make it up!
>>>>>
>>>>> That link takes me to a completely (relevant) content free page
>>>>> full of
>>>>> scream headlines and adverts.
>>>>>
>>>>> BTW is there a C missing from the subject line or is this a comment on
>>>>> drinking habits?  I though most means of transport were
>>>>> considerably less
>>>>> generous in that area these days.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sm
>>>>>
>>>> I appreciate the humour Sam.
>>>>
>>>> The link works as intended just now.
>>>>
>>>> The SOT was to acknowledge the post was indirectly rail related but you
>>>> can't please 'em all.
>>>>
>>>  Standard class travel on a long journey is miserable - cramped
>>> seating and  a fairly high chance of sharing your journey with some
>>> anti social  specimens. First class travel is extremely expensive
>>> unless you are very  lucky with Advance tickets. The Birmingham
>>> Glasgow EasyJet flight is 40  minutes in the air and the seats are
>>> comfortable.
>>>
>> Agreed, but most will see the irony in Notwork Rail execs preferring
>> to travel by air rather than the product of the industry they run!
>
> This is the "must use your own product" fallacy. Assembly line workers
> at Rolls Royce would be a bit embarrassed it that was all they were
> allowed to drive to work

I doubt many assembly line workers at Rolls Royce own their own jet
aircraft, nuclear submarines, or fast ferries.

Robin

On Tue, 25 Jul 2023 19:07:24 +0200, Bob <bob@domain.com> wrote:

>On 25.07.23 07:07, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <u9mfj6$omu5$1@dont-email.me>, at 19:23:31 on Mon, 24 Jul
>> 2023, Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> remarked:
>>> On 24/07/2023 19:05, Tweed wrote:
>>>> Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> On 24/07/2023 17:48, Sam Wilson wrote:
>>>>>> Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.msn.com/en-gb/travel/news/rail-bosses-spend-10-000-a-wee
>>>>>>> k-on-flights-because-it-s-cheaper-than-trains/ar-AA1eguGE?cvid=af435
>>>>>>> 715321741b0c7c5fc006593d853&ocid=winp2fptaskbar&ei=28
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Network rail executives spend £10000 a week on plane travel mainly on
>>>>>>> routes where they could have taken the train, e.g Birmingham to
>>>>>>> Glasgow.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You couldn't make it up!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That link takes me to a completely (relevant) content free page
>>>>>> full of
>>>>>> scream headlines and adverts.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> BTW is there a C missing from the subject line or is this a comment on
>>>>>> drinking habits?  I though most means of transport were
>>>>>> considerably less
>>>>>> generous in that area these days.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sm
>>>>>>
>>>>> I appreciate the humour Sam.
>>>>>
>>>>> The link works as intended just now.
>>>>>
>>>>> The SOT was to acknowledge the post was indirectly rail related but you
>>>>> can't please 'em all.
>>>>>
>>>>  Standard class travel on a long journey is miserable - cramped
>>>> seating and  a fairly high chance of sharing your journey with some
>>>> anti social  specimens. First class travel is extremely expensive
>>>> unless you are very  lucky with Advance tickets. The Birmingham
>>>> Glasgow EasyJet flight is 40  minutes in the air and the seats are
>>>> comfortable.
>>>>
>>> Agreed, but most will see the irony in Notwork Rail execs preferring
>>> to travel by air rather than the product of the industry they run!
>>
>> This is the "must use your own product" fallacy. Assembly line workers
>> at Rolls Royce would be a bit embarrassed it that was all they were
>> allowed to drive to work
>
>I doubt many assembly line workers at Rolls Royce own their own jet
>aircraft, nuclear submarines, or fast ferries.
>
Are you suggesting that Network Rail bosses own their own aircraft?
This seems an unlikely proposition.

Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Jul 2023 13:35:14 +0100, Jack Harry Teesdale
> <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 24/07/2023 13:29, Scott wrote:
>>> On Mon, 24 Jul 2023 13:08:09 +0100, Jack Harry Teesdale
>>> <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> https://www.msn.com/en-gb/travel/news/rail-bosses-spend-10-000-a-week-on-flights-because-it-s-cheaper-than-trains/ar-AA1eguGE?cvid=af435715321741b0c7c5fc006593d853&ocid=winp2fptaskbar&ei=28
>>>>
>>>> Network rail executives spend £10000 a week on plane travel mainly on
>>>> routes where they could have taken the train, e.g Birmingham to Glasgow.
>>>>
>>>> You couldn't make it up!
>>>
>>> Maybe they are nervous about being recognised by irate passengers :-)
>>
>> That's hardly likely even in First Class, I wouldn't be able to
>> recognise any of them, would you?
>
> When Mary Dickson managed First ScotRail the joke was that nothing was
> published by ScotRail without her photo picture. I met her last year
> at an event and she confirmed people spoke to her wherever she went.
>

Alison Forster was pretty well recognised during her time at the head of
fGW; I suspect a percentage of regular travellers would recognise Mark
Hopwood, too.

But those are TOC bosses, not Network Rail bosses; I'm pretty sure I
wouldn't recognise any NR management. And TBH even with the three TOC
examples quoted above, who would recognise their second-in-command, or any
other board members?

Anna Noyd-Dryver

In message <oh5tbi5k56eagv4p566advq8f7ngulbjut@4ax.com>, at 16:19:08 on
Mon, 24 Jul 2023, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> remarked:
>On Mon, 24 Jul 2023 16:10:06 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
>wrote:
>
>>In message <mbrsbihspnenggbdtkm4ll2kqtu0cqdagq@4ax.com>, at 13:25:45 on
>>Mon, 24 Jul 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>On Mon, 24 Jul 2023 13:08:09 +0100, Jack Harry Teesdale
>>><noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>>https://www.msn.com/en-gb/travel/news/rail-bosses-spend-10-000-a-week-o
>>>>n-flights-because-it-s-cheaper-than-trains/ar-AA1eguGE?cvid=af435715321
>>>>741b0c7c5fc006593d853&ocid=winp2fptaskbar&ei=28
>>>>
>>>>Network rail executives spend £10000 a week on plane travel mainly on
>>>>routes where they could have taken the train, e.g Birmingham to Glasgow.
>>>>
>>>>You couldn't make it up!
>>>
>>>I'd have thought they got priv tickets?
>>
>>Whether they do not, I'm pretty sure Network Rail is paying, not the
>>Execs.
>>
>>>Maybe they use the plane because it's much faster and more reliable?
>>
>>One of the most egregious wastes of money would be to pay an exec to
>>twiddle their thumbs on a long distance train, when flying would take
>>half the time, and even allow a day trip rather than two days out of
>>their diary.
>
>I though First Class was promoted as a place to do work, with table,
>WiFi and charging point.

Not if your work can't be done at a table. But it's a reason some
organisations pay the extra for First Class, they get slated for it as
bad value for money (apparently the public would rather the execs sat in
Standard staring out of the window).
--
Roland Perry

In message <d39tbi5p3eu3la3nrki04eannlr0im0280@4ax.com>, at 17:19:39 on
Mon, 24 Jul 2023, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> remarked:
>On Mon, 24 Jul 2023 16:12:41 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
>wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 24 Jul 2023 17:06:47 +0100
>>Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>On 24/07/2023 16:10, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>> In message <mbrsbihspnenggbdtkm4ll2kqtu0cqdagq@4ax.com>, at 13:25:45 on
>>>> Mon, 24 Jul 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>> On Mon, 24 Jul 2023 13:08:09 +0100, Jack Harry Teesdale
>>>>> <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.msn.com/en-gb/travel/news/rail-bosses-spend-10-000-a-week-o
>>>>>> n-flights-because-it-s-cheaper-than-trains/ar-AA1eguGE?cvid=af435715321
>>>>>> 741b0c7c5fc006593d853&ocid=winp2fptaskbar&ei=28
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Network rail executives spend £10000 a week on plane travel mainly on
>>>>>> routes where they could have taken the train, e.g Birmingham to Glasgow.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You couldn't make it up!
>>>>>
>>>>> I'd have thought they got priv tickets?
>>>>
>>>> Whether they do not, I'm pretty sure Network Rail is paying, not the Execs.
>>>>
>>>>> Maybe they use the plane because it's much faster and more reliable?
>>>>
>>>> One of the most egregious wastes of money would be to pay an exec to
>>>> twiddle their thumbs on a long distance train, when flying would take
>>>> half the time, and even allow a day trip rather than two days out of
>>>> their diary.
>>>
>>>We are back to the old argument as to whether it is quicker to travel
>>>between fixed points by rail or air. You need to take into account the
>>>additional time getting to and from airports from and city centres,
>>>these days 'executives' need not be'twiddling their fingers' most now
>>>can make pnone calls and use the internet on the train which is not
>>>always possible in a plane.
>>
>>These days the enviromental cost matters too and the plane fails miserably
>>on that count.
>>
>What about reputational risk if the BBC decides to make a documentary
>about Network Rail's air miles?

As long as the BBC doesn't fly the production team around the country to
make the programme.
--
Roland Perry