Short stay in National Trust property. As usual spotlessly clean, well furnished, well equipped with one exception. The SMEG ‘kettle. If you want a f****d up kettle ask SMEG. An electric kettle is a simple thing. Switch to turn it off and on. Not this one. It had two push buttons, a sliding lever and a row of fairy lights around the base. In theory one button turned it on and the sliding lever set the desired temperature as denoted by the fairy lights lights on the base. It never worked for me. I had to boil a saucepan of water on the induction hob:(another masterpiece of modern design) The second button allegedly maintained the temperature for a set period of time. Never got the opportunity to enjoy that.
The induction hob had a mind of its own.Worked occasionally though it was fast to boil the water.
The built in oven beneath this hob was obviously designed to be set mid height.This one was beneath the hob so to interpret the 3 knobs required going down on one knee. WTF
Streuth.
The Panasonic microwave was another delight. With a microwave all I require is a knob ( Yes a knob not a bloody switch) to set the power. Another know to set the timer required and an on/off switch.This has presets for Auto Defrost bread, fish ,and meat.Auto Reheat curry, Chinese, and pasta. And auto cook potatoes, vegetables,and fresh fish. Nothing as simple as what is required.
The haptics if this machine were dreadful. All controls were on a flat panel with zero feedback. It was a struggle to get it to cope with a Marks and Spencer ready meal

On 05/10/2023 15:15, fred wrote:

> The Panasonic microwave was another delight. With a microwave all I require is a knob ( Yes a knob not a bloody switch) to set the power. Another know to set the timer required and an on/off switch.This has presets for Auto Defrost bread, fish ,and meat.Auto Reheat curry, Chinese, and pasta. And auto cook potatoes, vegetables,and fresh fish. Nothing as simple as what is required.
> The haptics if this machine were dreadful. All controls were on a flat panel with zero feedback. It was a struggle to get it to cope with a Marks and Spencer ready meal

All I want on a microwave is a timer knob, as I always set it to full
power. Microwaves aren't good at defrosting as they don't heat frozen
water, only liquid water and fat and a few other things.

I don't need an on/off switch as opening the door stops it temporarily;
the timer can be turned back to zero to switch it off completely.

--
Max Demian

On Thu, 05 Oct 2023 17:38:16 +0100, Max Demian wrote:

> On 05/10/2023 15:15, fred wrote:
>
>> The Panasonic microwave was another delight. With a microwave all I
>> require is a knob ( Yes a knob not a bloody switch) to set the power.
>> Another know to set the timer required and an on/off switch.This has
>> presets for Auto Defrost bread, fish ,and meat.Auto Reheat curry,
>> Chinese, and pasta. And auto cook potatoes, vegetables,and fresh
>> fish. Nothing as simple as what is required.
>> The haptics if this machine were dreadful. All controls were on a flat
>> panel with zero feedback. It was a struggle to get it to cope with a
>> Marks and Spencer ready meal
>
> All I want on a microwave is a timer knob, as I always set it to full
> power. Microwaves aren't good at defrosting as they don't heat frozen
> water, only liquid water and fat and a few other things.
>
> I don't need an on/off switch as opening the door stops it temporarily;
> the timer can be turned back to zero to switch it off completely.

But they do seem to be actually work at defrosting! Little bursts of
power that heat any water or whatever there is and then allowing time for
that heat to spread by conduction. No?

nib

People who don't like microwave ovens haven't learnt to use them properly. They still think in terms of conventional ovens. I have two Panasonic inverter microwaves and I do most of my cooking in them. They are excellent.

Bill

On 6 Oct 2023 at 02:29:55 BST, wrightsaerials@f2s.com wrote:

> People who don't like microwave ovens haven't learnt to use them properly.
> They still think in terms of conventional ovens. I have two Panasonic inverter
> microwaves and I do most of my cooking in them. They are excellent.
>

Indeed - I've got a near top of range Pansonic combi because I wanted the
oven/grill. There is quite a difference in the interface and general build
compared with their cheaper models though - the pricier ones are much better.
As you'd hope/expect.

Add an air fryer and bread maker and that's about it for me - haven't used the
conventional oven in several months.

--
Cheers, Rob, Sheffield UK

On 06/10/2023 02:29, wrights...@f2s.com wrote:
> People who don't like microwave ovens haven't learnt to use them properly. They still think in terms of conventional ovens. I have two Panasonic inverter microwaves and I do most of my cooking in them. They are excellent.
>
> Bill

+1
Panasonic micro/conventional combination here and there is a learning
curve to get things right. Get the cooking ratio between microwave and
conventional wrong and you could end up with something inedible :)

I have some sympathy with the with the OP in that if you have never
encountered the (different) user interface before it's often not
intuitive about the way to drive it.
My previous combination micro/grill/conventional oven did have a big
rotary knob to set the time BUT the same knob also set the microwave
power and the conventional oven temperature. OK if it's your own
appliance and you have first glanced at the manual but going to,say, a
holiday let and seeing it for the first time you may not stand a chance,
even with a bit of trail and error.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 05/10/2023 17:38, Max Demian wrote:
> All I want on a microwave is a timer knob, as I always set it to full
> power. Microwaves aren't good at defrosting as they don't heat frozen
> water, only liquid water and fat and a few other things.
I think you would be surprised what and how they heat. Its not
conductivity, its dielectric losses
However the fact that you use fiull power is why you get poor
defrosting. You have a to heat a bit and then let the heat conduct into
the icy bits

--
If I had all the money I've spent on drink...
...I'd spend it on drink.

Sir Henry (at Rawlinson's End)

On 06/10/2023 11:28, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 05/10/2023 17:38, Max Demian wrote:
>> All I want on a microwave is a timer knob, as I always set it to full
>> power. Microwaves aren't good at defrosting as they don't heat frozen
>> water, only liquid water and fat and a few other things.
> I think you would be surprised what and how they heat. Its not
> conductivity, its dielectric losses
> However the fact that you use fiull power is why you get poor
> defrosting. You have a to heat a bit and then let the heat conduct into
> the icy bits
>

Not true for those of us (see also Bill Wright's post & replies to it)
who have embraced inverter technology.

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 06/10/2023 11:28, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 05/10/2023 17:38, Max Demian wrote:

>> All I want on a microwave is a timer knob, as I always set it to full
>> power. Microwaves aren't good at defrosting as they don't heat frozen
>> water, only liquid water and fat and a few other things.

> I think you would be surprised what and how they heat. Its not
> conductivity, its dielectric losses
> However the fact that you use fiull power is why you get poor
> defrosting. You have a to heat a bit and then let the heat conduct into
> the icy bits

I'm sufficiently organised to transfer things from the freezer section
to the fridge section the day before.

Apart from things that defrost in half an hour or so, like bread slices
or chapattis.

--
Max Demian

Robin <rbw@outlook.com> wrote:
> On 06/10/2023 11:28, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 05/10/2023 17:38, Max Demian wrote:
>>> All I want on a microwave is a timer knob, as I always set it to full
>>> power. Microwaves aren't good at defrosting as they don't heat frozen
>>> water, only liquid water and fat and a few other things.
>> I think you would be surprised what and how they heat. Its not
>> conductivity, its dielectric losses
>> However the fact that you use fiull power is why you get poor
>> defrosting. You have a to heat a bit and then let the heat conduct into
>> the icy bits
>>
>
> Not true for those of us (see also Bill Wright's post & replies to it)
> who have embraced inverter technology.
>

But that’s new fangled stuff. No sign of any inverters in our 40 year old
microwave. ;-)

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

I don't know about the Kettle. I think one who designs a kettle that needs
sight is bonkers. The kettle you mention would be of no use to a blind
person, and it sounds like its of little use to a sighted one either. Get a
cheap MOrphy Richards one as they work.
Microwaves, yes, I use a talking one, MY original was jus allowing simple
settings by a set of buttons that were nice and big, but the new one, which
I might add is less efficient at heating evenly, has more settings and hence
smaller buttons.
Its usable, but buzzes even when on standby. You can now get talking
combination ovens and grills with so many buttons its bewildering, and
talking hobs of the induction kind. The wrong oven seems to have been fitted
in the place you stayed, there are many different panel designs and you
should fit the one that is for the situation the oven its in. I bet it has
been retrofitted cos the original busted.
If you only need bait of boiling water, do it in a plastic jug in the
microwave but remember that it can explode when the surface tension is
broken. I think you can get floats that stop this.
Brian

--

--:
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"fred" <tpmccann@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:bb09b294-c9ba-4d44-ba45-6de0494fcf5bn@googlegroups.com...
Short stay in National Trust property. As usual spotlessly clean, well
furnished, well equipped with one exception. The SMEG 'kettle. If you want a
f****d up kettle ask SMEG. An electric kettle is a simple thing. Switch to
turn it off and on. Not this one. It had two push buttons, a sliding lever
and a row of fairy lights around the base. In theory one button turned it on
and the sliding lever set the desired temperature as denoted by the fairy
lights lights on the base. It never worked for me. I had to boil a saucepan
of water on the induction hob:(another masterpiece of modern design) The
second button allegedly maintained the temperature for a set period of time.
Never got the opportunity to enjoy that.
The induction hob had a mind of its own.Worked occasionally though it was
fast to boil the water.
The built in oven beneath this hob was obviously designed to be set mid
height.This one was beneath the hob so to interpret the 3 knobs required
going down on one knee. WTF
Streuth.
The Panasonic microwave was another delight. With a microwave all I require
is a knob ( Yes a knob not a bloody switch) to set the power. Another know
to set the timer required and an on/off switch.This has presets for Auto
Defrost bread, fish ,and meat.Auto Reheat curry, Chinese, and pasta. And
auto cook potatoes, vegetables,and fresh fish. Nothing as simple as what is
required.
The haptics if this machine were dreadful. All controls were on a flat panel
with zero feedback. It was a struggle to get it to cope with a Marks and
Spencer ready meal

Robin <rbw@outlook.com> wrote:
> On 06/10/2023 11:28, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> > On 05/10/2023 17:38, Max Demian wrote:
> >> All I want on a microwave is a timer knob, as I always set it to full
> >> power. Microwaves aren't good at defrosting as they don't heat frozen
> >> water, only liquid water and fat and a few other things.
> > I think you would be surprised what and how they heat. Its not
> > conductivity, its dielectric losses
> > However the fact that you use fiull power is why you get poor
> > defrosting. You have a to heat a bit and then let the heat conduct into
> > the icy bits
> >
>
> Not true for those of us (see also Bill Wright's post & replies to it)
> who have embraced inverter technology.

What difference does that make? The inverter is (as far as I'm aware)
just a better way to power the magnetron that produces the microwave
energy. It's still the same old microwave energy that's heating (or
not) your frozen food.

--
Chris Green
·

Chris Green <cl@isbd.net> wrote:
> Robin <rbw@outlook.com> wrote:
> > Not true for those of us (see also Bill Wright's post & replies to it)
> > who have embraced inverter technology.
>
> What difference does that make? The inverter is (as far as I'm aware)
> just a better way to power the magnetron that produces the microwave
> energy. It's still the same old microwave energy that's heating (or
> not) your frozen food.

In general terms, inverters can modulate the power, whereas transformer
systems are on/off.

A traditional microwave run at 30% power is at max power for say 10 seconds
and then off for 20 seconds. This can cause overcooking if the item is not
able to spread the energy, and low mass foods can go through unwanted
heat/cool cycles. An inverter is able to ramp the power down so it's
actually running all the time at 30% output.

This is good for things like milky sauces: a 10 second blast can be enough
to boil hot milk over, whereas a low continuous power keeps it simmering.

(don't know the specifics for microwaves, but I guess the inverter scales
the power by presenting a lower voltage to the magnetron than a transformer
would?)

Theo

Kettles with temperature settings are ideal for those who like to make
some hot drinks with less than boiling water - as is quite common for
coffee, green tea et al. The Bosch kettle I and some others here use
has 2 buttons that set the temperature down or up from the default
boiling. They beep to give audible feedback.

And if the early EU Ecodesign group had had their way you'd probably be
using now a kettle that not just had the option of less than boiling but
defaulted to it. Among other things they pointed out that it was only
the UK where large numbers of people routinely used boiling water for
their black tea.

On 06/10/2023 12:14, Brian Gaff wrote:
> I don't know about the Kettle. I think one who designs a kettle that needs
> sight is bonkers. The kettle you mention would be of no use to a blind
> person, and it sounds like its of little use to a sighted one either. Get a
> cheap MOrphy Richards one as they work.
> Microwaves, yes, I use a talking one, MY original was jus allowing simple
> settings by a set of buttons that were nice and big, but the new one, which
> I might add is less efficient at heating evenly, has more settings and hence
> smaller buttons.
> Its usable, but buzzes even when on standby. You can now get talking
> combination ovens and grills with so many buttons its bewildering, and
> talking hobs of the induction kind. The wrong oven seems to have been fitted
> in the place you stayed, there are many different panel designs and you
> should fit the one that is for the situation the oven its in. I bet it has
> been retrofitted cos the original busted.
> If you only need bait of boiling water, do it in a plastic jug in the
> microwave but remember that it can explode when the surface tension is
> broken. I think you can get floats that stop this.

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 06/10/2023 13:42, Robin wrote:
> Kettles with temperature settings are ideal for those who like to make
> some hot drinks with less than boiling water - as is quite common for
> coffee, green tea et al.  The Bosch kettle I and some others here use
> has 2 buttons that set the temperature down or up from the default
> boiling. They beep to give audible feedback.
>
Christ on a bike, when it boils it switches off. It cools. The water is
not boiling after 5 seconds

> And if the early EU Ecodesign group had had their way you'd probably be
> using now a kettle that not just had the option of less than boiling but
> defaulted to it.  Among other things they pointed out that it was only
> the UK where large numbers of people routinely used boiling water for
> their black tea.

So fuck the UK.

Normal EU reaction.

--
"Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They
always run out of other people's money. It's quite a characteristic of them"

Margaret Thatcher

On 06/10/2023 13:51, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 06/10/2023 13:42, Robin wrote:
>> Kettles with temperature settings are ideal for those who like to make
>> some hot drinks with less than boiling water - as is quite common for
>> coffee, green tea et al.  The Bosch kettle I and some others here use
>> has 2 buttons that set the temperature down or up from the default
>> boiling. They beep to give audible feedback.
>>
> Christ on a bike, when it boils it switches off. It cools. The water is
> not boiling after 5 seconds
>

Then pray tell from your divine wisdom how long after it switches off
will 500ml of water in my double walled Bosch kettle be at 80 degrees?

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 06/10/2023 14:09, Robin wrote:
> On 06/10/2023 13:51, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 06/10/2023 13:42, Robin wrote:
>>> Kettles with temperature settings are ideal for those who like to
>>> make some hot drinks with less than boiling water - as is quite
>>> common for coffee, green tea et al.  The Bosch kettle I and some
>>> others here use has 2 buttons that set the temperature down or up
>>> from the default boiling. They beep to give audible feedback.
>>>
>> Christ on a bike, when it boils it switches off. It cools. The water
>> is not boiling after 5 seconds
>>
>
> Then pray tell from your divine wisdom how long after it switches off
> will 500ml of water in my double walled Bosch kettle be at 80 degrees?
>
>
>
>
>
>
Anyone who makes tea at 80°C doesn't deserve an answer, and that is of
course a straw man,anyway. You said 'not boiling' not '80°C'.

--
"In our post-modern world, climate science is not powerful because it is
true: it is true because it is powerful."

Lucas Bergkamp

On 06/10/2023 14:21, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 06/10/2023 14:09, Robin wrote:
>> On 06/10/2023 13:51, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>> On 06/10/2023 13:42, Robin wrote:
>>>> Kettles with temperature settings are ideal for those who like to
>>>> make some hot drinks with less than boiling water - as is quite
>>>> common for coffee, green tea et al.  The Bosch kettle I and some
>>>> others here use has 2 buttons that set the temperature down or up
>>>> from the default boiling. They beep to give audible feedback.
>>>>
>>> Christ on a bike, when it boils it switches off. It cools. The water
>>> is not boiling after 5 seconds
>>>
>>
>> Then pray tell from your divine wisdom how long after it switches off
>> will 500ml of water in my double walled Bosch kettle be at 80 degrees?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
> Anyone who makes tea at 80°C doesn't deserve an answer, and that is of
> course a straw man,anyway. You said 'not boiling' not '80°C'.
>

My actual words were "less than boiling water - as is quite
common for coffee, green tea et al". If you don't know what temperatures
are widely used for coffee, green tea et al you could have just asked.

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 06/10/2023 14:39, Robin wrote:
> On 06/10/2023 14:21, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 06/10/2023 14:09, Robin wrote:
>>> On 06/10/2023 13:51, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>> On 06/10/2023 13:42, Robin wrote:
>>>>> Kettles with temperature settings are ideal for those who like to
>>>>> make some hot drinks with less than boiling water - as is quite
>>>>> common for coffee, green tea et al.  The Bosch kettle I and some
>>>>> others here use has 2 buttons that set the temperature down or up
>>>>> from the default boiling. They beep to give audible feedback.
>>>>>
>>>> Christ on a bike, when it boils it switches off. It cools. The water
>>>> is not boiling after 5 seconds
>>>>
>>>
>>> Then pray tell from your divine wisdom how long after it switches off
>>> will 500ml of water in my double walled Bosch kettle be at 80 degrees?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Anyone who makes tea at 80°C doesn't deserve an answer, and that is of
>> course a straw man,anyway. You said 'not boiling' not '80°C'.
>>
>
> My actual words were "less than boiling water - as is quite
> common for coffee, green tea et al". If you don't know what temperatures
> are widely used for coffee, green tea et al you could have just asked.
>
In my world, temperatures normally used for all of them are boiling or
a shade less after its been poured into a cup.

I take it you preheat the cup to 80°C too? And it is fully insulated to
prevent heat loss?

And of course...from a despriotion of an Espresso machine.

"Water at temperature of 200 °F and at a pressure of 9 bars forced the
6-7 grams dose of ground coffee for a period of 25 to 30 seconds. The
average steam in a espresso machine is 86 °C to 95 °C."

gives the lie to you that temperatures of 80°C are *ever* used for coffee.

95°C to 98°C is the correct and normal temperature for black tea.

Only some elevated little finger snoflakes consider that green teas
should be cooler.

--
“Ideas are inherently conservative. They yield not to the attack of
other ideas but to the massive onslaught of circumstance"

- John K Galbraith

On 6 Oct 2023 at 13:04:49 BST, Theo wrote:

> Chris Green <cl@isbd.net> wrote:
>> Robin <rbw@outlook.com> wrote:
>>> Not true for those of us (see also Bill Wright's post & replies to it)
>>> who have embraced inverter technology.
>>
>> What difference does that make? The inverter is (as far as I'm aware)
>> just a better way to power the magnetron that produces the microwave
>> energy. It's still the same old microwave energy that's heating (or
>> not) your frozen food.
>
> In general terms, inverters can modulate the power, whereas transformer
> systems are on/off.
>
> A traditional microwave run at 30% power is at max power for say 10 seconds
> and then off for 20 seconds. This can cause overcooking if the item is not
> able to spread the energy, and low mass foods can go through unwanted
> heat/cool cycles. An inverter is able to ramp the power down so it's
> actually running all the time at 30% output.
>
> This is good for things like milky sauces: a 10 second blast can be enough
> to boil hot milk over, whereas a low continuous power keeps it simmering.
>
> (don't know the specifics for microwaves, but I guess the inverter scales
> the power by presenting a lower voltage to the magnetron than a transformer
> would?)
>

Chaos theory in Panasonics, apparently:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/chaos-theory-serves-up-solution-to-speedy-defrosting-in-microwaves-102308.html

--
Cheers, Rob, Sheffield UK

Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> Chris Green <cl@isbd.net> wrote:
> > Robin <rbw@outlook.com> wrote:
> > > Not true for those of us (see also Bill Wright's post & replies to it)
> > > who have embraced inverter technology.
> >
> > What difference does that make? The inverter is (as far as I'm aware)
> > just a better way to power the magnetron that produces the microwave
> > energy. It's still the same old microwave energy that's heating (or
> > not) your frozen food.
>
> In general terms, inverters can modulate the power, whereas transformer
> systems are on/off.
>
But weren't we talking specifically about de-frosting?

--
Chris Green
·

On 06/10/2023 14:54, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 06/10/2023 14:39, Robin wrote:
>> On 06/10/2023 14:21, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>> On 06/10/2023 14:09, Robin wrote:
>>>> On 06/10/2023 13:51, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>> On 06/10/2023 13:42, Robin wrote:
>>>>>> Kettles with temperature settings are ideal for those who like to
>>>>>> make some hot drinks with less than boiling water - as is quite
>>>>>> common for coffee, green tea et al.  The Bosch kettle I and some
>>>>>> others here use has 2 buttons that set the temperature down or up
>>>>>> from the default boiling. They beep to give audible feedback.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Christ on a bike, when it boils it switches off. It cools. The
>>>>> water is not boiling after 5 seconds
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Then pray tell from your divine wisdom how long after it switches
>>>> off will 500ml of water in my double walled Bosch kettle be at 80
>>>> degrees?

>>> Anyone who makes tea at 80°C doesn't deserve an answer, and that is
>>> of course a straw man,anyway. You said 'not boiling' not '80°C'.

>> My actual words were "less than boiling water - as is quite
>> common for coffee, green tea et al". If you don't know what
>> temperatures are widely used for coffee, green tea et al you could
>> have just asked.
>>
> In my world, temperatures  normally used for all of them are boiling or
> a shade less after its been poured into a cup.
>
> I take it you preheat the cup to 80°C too? And it is fully insulated to
> prevent heat loss?
>
> And of course...from a despriotion of an Espresso machine.
>
> "Water at temperature of 200 °F and at a pressure of 9 bars forced the
> 6-7 grams dose of ground coffee for a period of 25 to 30 seconds. The
> average steam in a espresso machine is 86 °C to 95 °C."
>
> gives the lie to you that temperatures of 80°C are *ever* used for coffee.
>
> 95°C to 98°C is the correct and normal temperature for black tea.
>
> Only some elevated little finger snoflakes consider that green teas
> should be cooler.

They used to say that you should always take the pot to the kettle
rather than the other way round, so the water was properly boiling to
make the tea. And special blends of tea were made for mountaineers so
the tea would taste good in the thin air where water boils at less than
100 C.

I don't suppose you guys put in "one for the pot" either.

--
Max Demian

On 06/10/2023 17:04, Max Demian wrote:
> On 06/10/2023 14:54, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 06/10/2023 14:39, Robin wrote:
>>> On 06/10/2023 14:21, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>> On 06/10/2023 14:09, Robin wrote:
>>>>> On 06/10/2023 13:51, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>>> On 06/10/2023 13:42, Robin wrote:
>>>>>>> Kettles with temperature settings are ideal for those who like to
>>>>>>> make some hot drinks with less than boiling water - as is quite
>>>>>>> common for coffee, green tea et al.  The Bosch kettle I and some
>>>>>>> others here use has 2 buttons that set the temperature down or up
>>>>>>> from the default boiling. They beep to give audible feedback.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Christ on a bike, when it boils it switches off. It cools. The
>>>>>> water is not boiling after 5 seconds
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Then pray tell from your divine wisdom how long after it switches
>>>>> off will 500ml of water in my double walled Bosch kettle be at 80
>>>>> degrees?
>
>>>> Anyone who makes tea at 80°C doesn't deserve an answer, and that is
>>>> of course a straw man,anyway. You said 'not boiling' not '80°C'.
>
>>> My actual words were "less than boiling water - as is quite
>>> common for coffee, green tea et al". If you don't know what
>>> temperatures are widely used for coffee, green tea et al you could
>>> have just asked.
>>>
>> In my world, temperatures  normally used for all of them are boiling
>> or a shade less after its been poured into a cup.
>>
>> I take it you preheat the cup to 80°C too? And it is fully insulated
>> to prevent heat loss?
>>
>> And of course...from a despriotion of an Espresso machine.
>>
>> "Water at temperature of 200 °F and at a pressure of 9 bars forced the
>> 6-7 grams dose of ground coffee for a period of 25 to 30 seconds. The
>> average steam in a espresso machine is 86 °C to 95 °C."
>>
>> gives the lie to you that temperatures of 80°C are *ever* used for
>> coffee.
>>
>> 95°C to 98°C is the correct and normal temperature for black tea.
>>
>> Only some elevated little finger snoflakes consider that green teas
>> should be cooler.
>
> They used to say that you should always take the pot to the kettle
> rather than the other way round, so the water was properly boiling to
> make the tea. And special blends of tea were made for mountaineers so
> the tea would taste good in the thin air where water boils at less than
> 100 C.
>
> I don't suppose you guys put in "one for the pot" either.
>
What's a 'pot'?

--
Truth welcomes investigation because truth knows investigation will lead
to converts. It is deception that uses all the other techniques.

On 06/10/2023 14:09, Robin wrote:
> Then pray tell from your divine wisdom how long after it switches off
> will 500ml of water in my double walled Bosch kettle be at 80 degrees?

I want 80 degree or so water in my green tea. So I put a bit of cold in
the bottom of the mug, then add water from the kettle.

Andy

On 05-Oct-23 17:38, Max Demian wrote:
> On 05/10/2023 15:15, fred wrote:
>
>>   The Panasonic microwave was another delight. With a microwave all I
>> require is a knob ( Yes a knob not a bloody switch) to set the power.
>> Another know to set the timer required and an on/off switch.This has
>> presets for Auto Defrost bread, fish ,and meat.Auto Reheat curry,
>> Chinese, and pasta. And auto cook potatoes, vegetables,and fresh fish.
>> Nothing as simple as what is required.
>> The haptics if this machine were dreadful. All controls were on a flat
>> panel with zero feedback. It was a struggle to get it to cope with a
>> Marks and Spencer ready meal
>
> All I want on a microwave is a timer knob, as I always set it to full
> power. Microwaves aren't good at defrosting as they don't heat frozen
> water, only liquid water and fat and a few other things.
>
> I don't need an on/off switch as opening the door stops it temporarily;
> the timer can be turned back to zero to switch it off completely.
>

Microwaves with a knob/dial to set the time are absolutely crap at..
actually setting a time.
If you try to set 3 minutes, you will often get 2 minutes... or maybe 4.
If you just want to warm a small quantity of milk (as I frequently do)
then you don't have a chance. You don't have a hope of selecting 60
seconds.

I do agree that flat panel "touch" switches which actually require you
to jab them so hard that the whole microwave moves - are somewhat less
than ideal.

--
Sam Plusnet