On 06/10/2023 17:18, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> What's a 'pot'?
>

It's the thing you put your tea bag in :)

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 06/10/2023 19:27, alan_m wrote:
> On 06/10/2023 17:18, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
>> What's a 'pot'?
>>
>
> It's the thing you put your tea bag in :)
>
No, That's a mug.

--
Future generations will wonder in bemused amazement that the early
twenty-first century’s developed world went into hysterical panic over a
globally average temperature increase of a few tenths of a degree, and,
on the basis of gross exaggerations of highly uncertain computer
projections combined into implausible chains of inference, proceeded to
contemplate a rollback of the industrial age.

Richard Lindzen

Chris Green <cl@isbd.net> wrote:
> Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> > Chris Green <cl@isbd.net> wrote:
> > > Robin <rbw@outlook.com> wrote:
> > > > Not true for those of us (see also Bill Wright's post & replies to it)
> > > > who have embraced inverter technology.
> > >
> > > What difference does that make? The inverter is (as far as I'm aware)
> > > just a better way to power the magnetron that produces the microwave
> > > energy. It's still the same old microwave energy that's heating (or
> > > not) your frozen food.
> >
> > In general terms, inverters can modulate the power, whereas transformer
> > systems are on/off.
> >
> But weren't we talking specifically about de-frosting?

With a blast-and-pause microwave you can overcook items on defrost - eg
chicken breast, where the outside starts to go white while the inside is
frozen. I haven't tried an inverter but I'd guess it might be better for
this?

Blast-and-pause mitigate this by having a very short blast time, but that
means it takes a long time to defrost (~20 mins on the defrost setting)

Theo

On 06/10/2023 20:49, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 06/10/2023 19:27, alan_m wrote:
>> On 06/10/2023 17:18, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>
>>> What's a 'pot'?
>>>
>>
>> It's the thing you put your tea bag in :)
>>
> No, That's a mug.
>
Ignorant fucking philistine not making tea in a tea pot!

On 06/10/2023 17:32, Vir Campestris wrote:
> On 06/10/2023 14:09, Robin wrote:
>> Then pray tell from your divine wisdom how long after it switches off
>> will 500ml of water in my double walled Bosch kettle be at 80 degrees?
>
> I want 80 degree or so water in my green tea. So I put a bit of cold in
> the bottom of the mug, then add water from the kettle.
>
> Andy

That was what was always nice staying in business class hotels when I
was out working in Japan... they had a kettles that heated to 80C for
your green tea. Best hotel had one with buttons for 80/90 and 100C. It
also had a super advanced techno-toilet with male/female bidet modes,
heated seat, auto-flush and anti-skid mark mode!

On 06/10/2023 11:35, Robin wrote:
> On 06/10/2023 11:28, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 05/10/2023 17:38, Max Demian wrote:
>>> All I want on a microwave is a timer knob, as I always set it to full
>>> power. Microwaves aren't good at defrosting as they don't heat frozen
>>> water, only liquid water and fat and a few other things.
>> I think you would be surprised what and how they heat. Its not
>> conductivity, its dielectric losses
>> However the fact that you use fiull power is why you get poor
>> defrosting. You have a to heat a bit and then let the heat conduct
>> into the icy bits
>>
>
> Not true for those of us (see also Bill Wright's post & replies to it)
> who have embraced inverter technology.

As TNP has stated, microwaves cook through dielectric loss. This is much
higher in liquid water and quite low in ice.

While I accept a conventional transformer microwave has an off-on
behaviour, whereas an inverter may provide a continuous low power, the
issue of differential dielectric heating between water and ice is
precisely the same.

On 6 Oct 2023 at 19:17:16 BST, Sam Plusnet wrote:

> Microwaves with a knob/dial to set the time are absolutely crap at..
> actually setting a time.
> If you try to set 3 minutes, you will often get 2 minutes... or maybe 4.
> If you just want to warm a small quantity of milk (as I frequently do)
> then you don't have a chance. You don't have a hope of selecting 60
> seconds.

Speaking for the topish of range Panasonic I find the knob makes dialing in
the time easy - 10s increments with a slow turn, then multiples with a faster
turn. Simple to enter say 15m40s. And there's a 30s button - press for
multiples of 30s.

--
Cheers, Rob, Sheffield UK

On 6 Oct 2023 at 14:54:31 BST, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> And of course...from a despriotion of an Espresso machine.
>
> "Water at temperature of 200 °F and at a pressure of 9 bars forced the
> 6-7 grams dose of ground coffee for a period of 25 to 30 seconds. The
> average steam in a espresso machine is 86 °C to 95 °C."
>
> gives the lie to you that temperatures of 80°C are *ever* used for coffee.

For instant coffee, the water should be well off the boil - 80-90C.

I'm with Robin on this - the Bosch kettle does what I want and saves energy.
Flipping expensive though.

--
Cheers, Rob, Sheffield UK

On 07/10/2023 06:40, RJH wrote:
> On 6 Oct 2023 at 14:54:31 BST, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
>> And of course...from a despriotion of an Espresso machine.
>>
>> "Water at temperature of 200 °F and at a pressure of 9 bars forced the
>> 6-7 grams dose of ground coffee for a period of 25 to 30 seconds. The
>> average steam in a espresso machine is 86 °C to 95 °C."
>>
>> gives the lie to you that temperatures of 80°C are *ever* used for coffee.
>
> For instant coffee, the water should be well off the boil - 80-90C.
>
> I'm with Robin on this - the Bosch kettle does what I want and saves energy.
> Flipping expensive though.
>
Some of us who put thermometers into boiling water discover than its
seldom above 90°C - it may be right at the base where its heated, and
the bubbles may be, by by the time the kettle is off or than pan is off
the stove its all well less than 100°C.
--
No Apple devices were knowingly used in the preparation of this post.

On 07/10/2023 00:23, mm0fmf wrote:
> On 06/10/2023 17:32, Vir Campestris wrote:
>> On 06/10/2023 14:09, Robin wrote:
>>> Then pray tell from your divine wisdom how long after it switches off
>>> will 500ml of water in my double walled Bosch kettle be at 80 degrees?
>>
>> I want 80 degree or so water in my green tea. So I put a bit of cold
>> in the bottom of the mug, then add water from the kettle.
>>
>> Andy
>
> That was what was always nice staying in business class hotels when I
> was out working in Japan... they had a kettles that heated to 80C for
> your green tea. Best hotel had one with buttons for 80/90 and 100C. It
> also had a super advanced techno-toilet with male/female bidet modes,
> heated seat, auto-flush and anti-skid mark mode!

What a total fucking waste of time.

--
"Nature does not give up the winter because people dislike the cold."

― Confucius

On 07/10/2023 00:15, mm0fmf wrote:
> On 06/10/2023 20:49, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 06/10/2023 19:27, alan_m wrote:
>>> On 06/10/2023 17:18, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>
>>>> What's a 'pot'?
>>>>
>>>
>>> It's the thing you put your tea bag in :)
>>>
>> No, That's a mug.
>>
> Ignorant fucking philistine not making tea in a tea pot!

If God had intended us to make tea in a tea pot he wouldn't have created
mugs

--
"Nature does not give up the winter because people dislike the cold."

― Confucius

On 07/10/2023 06:40, RJH wrote:
> On 6 Oct 2023 at 14:54:31 BST, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
>> And of course...from a despriotion of an Espresso machine.
>>
>> "Water at temperature of 200 °F and at a pressure of 9 bars forced the
>> 6-7 grams dose of ground coffee for a period of 25 to 30 seconds. The
>> average steam in a espresso machine is 86 °C to 95 °C."
>>
>> gives the lie to you that temperatures of 80°C are *ever* used for coffee.
>
> For instant coffee, the water should be well off the boil - 80-90C.

Or just pour the milk in first.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

In article <ufr6iq$29gr3$5@dont-email.me>,
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 07/10/2023 00:15, mm0fmf wrote:
> > On 06/10/2023 20:49, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> >> On 06/10/2023 19:27, alan_m wrote:
> >>> On 06/10/2023 17:18, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> What's a 'pot'?
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> It's the thing you put your tea bag in :)
> >>>
> >> No, That's a mug.
> >>
> > Ignorant fucking philistine not making tea in a tea pot!

> If God had intended us to make tea in a tea pot he wouldn't have created
> mugs

Tea for two?

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4té²
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 07/10/2023 06:40, RJH wrote:
> On 6 Oct 2023 at 14:54:31 BST, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
>> And of course...from a despriotion of an Espresso machine.
>>
>> "Water at temperature of 200 °F and at a pressure of 9 bars forced the
>> 6-7 grams dose of ground coffee for a period of 25 to 30 seconds. The
>> average steam in a espresso machine is 86 °C to 95 °C."
>>
>> gives the lie to you that temperatures of 80°C are *ever* used for coffee.
>
> For instant coffee, the water should be well off the boil - 80-90C.
>
> I'm with Robin on this - the Bosch kettle does what I want and saves energy.
> Flipping expensive though.
>

How much money does it actually save over a year?

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 07 Oct 2023 at 00:15:39 BST, "mm0fmf" <none@invalid.com> wrote:

> On 06/10/2023 20:49, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 06/10/2023 19:27, alan_m wrote:
>>> On 06/10/2023 17:18, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>
>>>> What's a 'pot'?
>>>
>>> It's the thing you put your tea bag in :)
>>>
>> No, That's a mug.
>>
> Ignorant fucking philistine not making tea in a tea pot!

Even worse, using tea-bags. Should be using loose tea, which is readily
available and can either be used in a tea-pot or a concrete mixer such as this
https://www.amazon.co.uk/MEANTOBE-Infuser-Mulling-Stainless-Strainer/dp/B07RNCP9S5/

Leave to infuse for at least 4 minutes either way.

--
There's no obfuscated Perl contest because it's pointless.

- Jeff Polk

On 07/10/2023 10:15, charles wrote:
> In article <ufr6iq$29gr3$5@dont-email.me>,
> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> On 07/10/2023 00:15, mm0fmf wrote:
>>> On 06/10/2023 20:49, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>> On 06/10/2023 19:27, alan_m wrote:
>>>>> On 06/10/2023 17:18, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> What's a 'pot'?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> It's the thing you put your tea bag in :)
>>>>>
>>>> No, That's a mug.
>>>>
>>> Ignorant fucking philistine not making tea in a tea pot!
>
>> If God had intended us to make tea in a tea pot he wouldn't have created
>> mugs
>
> Tea for two?

"What goes in dry, comes out wet, and can give pleasure to two people?"

--
Max Demian

On 07/10/2023 11:07, Tim Streater wrote:
> On 07 Oct 2023 at 00:15:39 BST, "mm0fmf" <none@invalid.com> wrote:
>
>> On 06/10/2023 20:49, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>> On 06/10/2023 19:27, alan_m wrote:
>>>> On 06/10/2023 17:18, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> What's a 'pot'?
>>>>
>>>> It's the thing you put your tea bag in :)
>>>>
>>> No, That's a mug.
>>>
>> Ignorant fucking philistine not making tea in a tea pot!
>
> Even worse, using tea-bags. Should be using loose tea, which is readily
> available and can either be used in a tea-pot or a concrete mixer such as this
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/MEANTOBE-Infuser-Mulling-Stainless-Strainer/dp/B07RNCP9S5/
>
> Leave to infuse for at least 4 minutes either way.

I use a Bodum Tea press teapot (available for two or three pounds from
charity shops - probably unwanted gifts) The only disadvantage is that
you can't put the hot water in all at once: you have to let some go
through the filter before you add more.

--
Max Demian

On 07/10/2023 11:07, Tim Streater wrote:
> On 07 Oct 2023 at 00:15:39 BST, "mm0fmf" <none@invalid.com> wrote:
>
>> On 06/10/2023 20:49, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>> On 06/10/2023 19:27, alan_m wrote:
>>>> On 06/10/2023 17:18, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> What's a 'pot'?
>>>>
>>>> It's the thing you put your tea bag in :)
>>>>
>>> No, That's a mug.
>>>
>> Ignorant fucking philistine not making tea in a tea pot!
>
> Even worse, using tea-bags. Should be using loose tea, which is readily
> available and can either be used in a tea-pot or a concrete mixer such as this
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/MEANTOBE-Infuser-Mulling-Stainless-Strainer/dp/B07RNCP9S5/
>
> Leave to infuse for at least 4 minutes either way.
>

But only if you want undrinkable tea :)

I tea pot and loose tea is only for the tea snobs who have been brain
washed into believing there is an art in making a drinkable liquid :)

Nothing wrong with tea bags in a mug.

I don't actually know of anyone who uses a tea pot these days

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 07 Oct 2023 at 11:44:10 BST, "alan_m" <junk@admac.myzen.co.uk> wrote:

> On 07/10/2023 11:07, Tim Streater wrote:
>> On 07 Oct 2023 at 00:15:39 BST, "mm0fmf" <none@invalid.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 06/10/2023 20:49, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>> On 06/10/2023 19:27, alan_m wrote:
>>>>> On 06/10/2023 17:18, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> What's a 'pot'?
>>>>>
>>>>> It's the thing you put your tea bag in :)
>>>>>
>>>> No, That's a mug.
>>>>
>>> Ignorant fucking philistine not making tea in a tea pot!
>>
>> Even worse, using tea-bags. Should be using loose tea, which is readily
>> available and can either be used in a tea-pot or a concrete mixer such as this
>> https://www.amazon.co.uk/MEANTOBE-Infuser-Mulling-Stainless-Strainer/dp/B07RNCP9S5/
>>
>> Leave to infuse for at least 4 minutes either way.
>
> But only if you want undrinkable tea :)

How long d'ye leave the tea-bag in, then?

> I tea pot and loose tea is only for the tea snobs who have been brain
> washed into believing there is an art in making a drinkable liquid :)
>
> Nothing wrong with tea bags in a mug.
>
> I don't actually know of anyone who uses a tea pot these days

Well if you don't mind using a non-recyclable item which can't be composted
(due to the plastic in it), then go ahead.

--
"Hard" and "Soft" Brexit are code words for Leaving or Staying in the EU, rather than for the terms of our departure.

Jacob Rees-Mogg MP

On 07/10/2023 11:07, Tim Streater wrote:
> On 07 Oct 2023 at 00:15:39 BST, "mm0fmf" <none@invalid.com> wrote:
>
>> On 06/10/2023 20:49, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>> On 06/10/2023 19:27, alan_m wrote:
>>>> On 06/10/2023 17:18, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> What's a 'pot'?
>>>>
>>>> It's the thing you put your tea bag in :)
>>>>
>>> No, That's a mug.
>>>
>> Ignorant fucking philistine not making tea in a tea pot!
>
> Even worse, using tea-bags. Should be using loose tea, which is readily
> available and can either be used in a tea-pot or a concrete mixer such as this
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/MEANTOBE-Infuser-Mulling-Stainless-Strainer/dp/B07RNCP9S5/
>
> Leave to infuse for at least 4 minutes either way.
>
Really, tea is pretty crap to start with and all that paraphernalia wont
stop it being crap.
sling a bag in the cup top up with boiling water and its ground so fine
that 30 seconds later the bag comes out the milk goes in and that
enough tea for one day

--
Gun Control: The law that ensures that only criminals have guns.

In article <kocr3qF9olbU2@mid.individual.net>,
alan_m <junk@admac.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
> On 07/10/2023 11:07, Tim Streater wrote:
> > On 07 Oct 2023 at 00:15:39 BST, "mm0fmf" <none@invalid.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On 06/10/2023 20:49, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> >>> On 06/10/2023 19:27, alan_m wrote:
> >>>> On 06/10/2023 17:18, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> What's a 'pot'?
> >>>>
> >>>> It's the thing you put your tea bag in :)
> >>>>
> >>> No, That's a mug.
> >>>
> >> Ignorant fucking philistine not making tea in a tea pot!
> >
> > Even worse, using tea-bags. Should be using loose tea, which is readily
> > available and can either be used in a tea-pot or a concrete mixer such as this
> > https://www.amazon.co.uk/MEANTOBE-Infuser-Mulling-Stainless-Strainer/dp/B07RNCP9S5/
> >
> > Leave to infuse for at least 4 minutes either way.
> >

> But only if you want undrinkable tea :)

> I tea pot and loose tea is only for the tea snobs who have been brain
> washed into believing there is an art in making a drinkable liquid :)

> Nothing wrong with tea bags in a mug.

> I don't actually know of anyone who uses a tea pot these days

obviously you don't know me. Tea for one in a mug; tea for two or more in a
pot. Why use more than one bag when you don't need to?

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4té²
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 07 Oct 2023 at 11:44:10 BST, "alan_m" <junk@admac.myzen.co.uk> wrote:

> On 07/10/2023 11:07, Tim Streater wrote:
>> On 07 Oct 2023 at 00:15:39 BST, "mm0fmf" <none@invalid.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 06/10/2023 20:49, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>> On 06/10/2023 19:27, alan_m wrote:
>>>>> On 06/10/2023 17:18, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> What's a 'pot'?
>>>>>
>>>>> It's the thing you put your tea bag in :)
>>>>>
>>>> No, That's a mug.
>>>>
>>> Ignorant fucking philistine not making tea in a tea pot!
>>
>> Even worse, using tea-bags. Should be using loose tea, which is readily
>> available and can either be used in a tea-pot or a concrete mixer such as this
>> https://www.amazon.co.uk/MEANTOBE-Infuser-Mulling-Stainless-Strainer/dp/B07RNCP9S5/
>>
>> Leave to infuse for at least 4 minutes either way.
>
> But only if you want undrinkable tea :)

Of course it's not undrinkable, unless you're my nephew or his mother, for
both of whom tea is a pale, almost milk-coloured, fluid. And when we were last
there we had to rant at my SiL, as the concept of saving money / reducing
pollution by dint of *sharing* a tea-bag between more than one mug had passed
her by. A typical urban do-gooder, I'm afraid - talks up a storm about saving
the planet but does nothing practical about it.

--
When I saw how the European Union was developing, it was very obvious what they had in mind was not democratic. In Britain you vote for a government so the government has to listen to you, and if you don't like it you can change it.

Tony Benn

On 7 Oct 2023 at 10:50:46 BST, alan_m wrote:

> On 07/10/2023 06:40, RJH wrote:
>> On 6 Oct 2023 at 14:54:31 BST, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>
>>> And of course...from a despriotion of an Espresso machine.
>>>
>>> "Water at temperature of 200 °F and at a pressure of 9 bars forced the
>>> 6-7 grams dose of ground coffee for a period of 25 to 30 seconds. The
>>> average steam in a espresso machine is 86 °C to 95 °C."
>>>
>>> gives the lie to you that temperatures of 80°C are *ever* used for coffee.
>>
>> For instant coffee, the water should be well off the boil - 80-90C.
>>
>> I'm with Robin on this - the Bosch kettle does what I want and saves energy.
>> Flipping expensive though.
>>
>
> How much money does it actually save over a year?

Couple of quid a year maybe? But if every household did it, scale that up by
about 20 million . . .
--
Cheers, Rob, Sheffield UK

On Fri, 6 Oct 2023 14:39:13 +0100, Robin wrote:

>>> Then pray tell from your divine wisdom how long after it
>>> switches off will 500ml of water in my double walled Bosch
>>> kettle be at 80 degrees?

How would the liquid inside a double walled metal Bosch kettle ever
see the microwaves?

On 07/10/2023 10:50, alan_m wrote:
> On 07/10/2023 06:40, RJH wrote:
>> On 6 Oct 2023 at 14:54:31 BST, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>
>>> And of course...from a despriotion of an Espresso machine.
>>>
>>> "Water at temperature of 200 °F and at a pressure of 9 bars forced the
>>> 6-7 grams dose of ground coffee for a period of 25 to 30 seconds. The
>>> average steam in a espresso machine is 86 °C to 95 °C."
>>>
>>> gives the lie to you that temperatures of 80°C are *ever* used for
>>> coffee.
>>
>> For instant coffee, the water should be well off the boil - 80-90C.
>>
>> I'm with Robin on this - the Bosch kettle does what I want and saves
>> energy.
>> Flipping expensive though.
>>
>
> How much money does it actually save over a year?
>

Depends what you are comparing it with. A really cheap kettle will have
an immersed rather than concealed element so need a bigger minimum
amount; may not be easy to judge how much water is in it; be single
walled; and may overboil for longer. It certainly wont have the ability
to set a lower temperature. Compared with one of them I reckon we save
£10 to £15 a year on electricity. That more than covers the admittedly
horrible price difference. But then we are retired, and use it for a
lot of coffee (including instant @ 80C), other infusions and misc stuff.
--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid