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aus+uk / uk.transport.london / Ticketing enquiry

SubjectAuthor
* Ticketing enquiryGraeme Wall
`* Ticketing enquiryRecliner
 `* Ticketing enquiryGraeme Wall
  `* Ticketing enquiryRecliner
   `* Ticketing enquiryGraeme Wall
    +* Ticketing enquiryRoland Perry
    |+- Ticketing enquiryRecliner
    |`* Ticketing enquiryRoland Perry
    | `* extension Ticketing enquiryJohn Levine
    |  +- extension Ticketing enquiryGraeme Wall
    |  +* extension Ticketing enquiryRecliner
    |  |`- extension Ticketing enquiryRoland Perry
    |  `* extension Ticketing enquiryRoland Perry
    |   `* extension Ticketing enquiryGraeme Wall
    |    +* extension Ticketing enquiryRecliner
    |    |`* extension Ticketing enquiryGraeme Wall
    |    | +* extension Ticketing enquiryRecliner
    |    | |`* extension Ticketing enquiryGraeme Wall
    |    | | `* extension Ticketing enquiryRecliner
    |    | |  `* extension Ticketing enquiryGraeme Wall
    |    | |   `* extension Ticketing enquiryRecliner
    |    | |    `* extension Ticketing enquiryGraeme Wall
    |    | |     `- extension Ticketing enquiryRecliner
    |    | +* extension Ticketing enquiryD A Stocks
    |    | |`- extension Ticketing enquiryGraeme Wall
    |    | `- extension Ticketing enquiryRoland Perry
    |    `* extension Ticketing enquiryRoland Perry
    |     `- extension Ticketing enquiryGraeme Wall
    +* Ticketing enquiryRecliner
    |+* Ticketing enquiryGraeme Wall
    ||`* Ticketing enquiryRecliner
    || `* Ticketing enquiryRoland Perry
    ||  `- Ticketing enquiryRecliner
    |`* Ticketing enquiryRoland Perry
    | +* Ticketing enquiryRoland Perry
    | |+* Ticketing enquiryRecliner
    | ||`* Ticketing enquiryGraeme Wall
    | || `* Ticketing enquiryRecliner
    | ||  `- Ticketing enquiryGraeme Wall
    | |`* Ticketing enquiryGraeme Wall
    | | `* Ticketing enquiryRoland Perry
    | |  +- Ticketing enquiryRecliner
    | |  `* Ticketing enquiryGraeme Wall
    | |   +* Ticketing enquiryRecliner
    | |   |`* Ticketing enquiryGraeme Wall
    | |   | `- Ticketing enquiryRecliner
    | |   `* Ticketing enquiryRoland Perry
    | |    +- Ticketing enquiryRoland Perry
    | |    `- Ticketing enquiryGraeme Wall
    | `- Ticketing enquiryRoland Perry
    `* Ticketing enquiryRecliner
     `* Ticketing enquiryGraeme Wall
      `* Ticketing enquiryRecliner
       `- Ticketing enquiryGraeme Wall

Pages:123
Ticketing enquiry

<ul4is1$2n5fs$1@dont-email.me>

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From: rai...@greywall.demon.co.uk (Graeme Wall)
Newsgroups: uk.transport.london
Subject: Ticketing enquiry
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2023 14:44:17 +0000
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Graeme Wall - Sun, 10 Dec 2023 14:44 UTC

I need to travel from Guildford to Chesham (and back) sometime in the
near future, a 1 day travelcard will only get me to Zone 6 (Moor Park).
Is it possible to get an extension before I travel or do I have to bail
at Moor Park and re-enter the system in both directions?

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Re: Ticketing enquiry

<9mlbnit02pbqq22ncipm81r66rbaggd6pl@4ax.com>

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From: recliner...@gmail.com (Recliner)
Newsgroups: uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: Ticketing enquiry
Message-ID: <9mlbnit02pbqq22ncipm81r66rbaggd6pl@4ax.com>
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 by: Recliner - Sun, 10 Dec 2023 15:18 UTC

On Sun, 10 Dec 2023 14:44:17 +0000, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>I need to travel from Guildford to Chesham (and back) sometime in the
>near future, a 1 day travelcard will only get me to Zone 6 (Moor Park).
>Is it possible to get an extension before I travel or do I have to bail
>at Moor Park and re-enter the system in both directions?

I believe you can buy a zonal extension ticket from a TfL TVM:

https://www.london.gov.uk/who-we-are/what-london-assembly-does/questions-mayor/find-an-answer/tube-extension-tickets

Re: Ticketing enquiry

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From: rai...@greywall.demon.co.uk (Graeme Wall)
Newsgroups: uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: Ticketing enquiry
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2023 15:40:56 +0000
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 by: Graeme Wall - Sun, 10 Dec 2023 15:40 UTC

On 10/12/2023 15:18, Recliner wrote:
> On Sun, 10 Dec 2023 14:44:17 +0000, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> I need to travel from Guildford to Chesham (and back) sometime in the
>> near future, a 1 day travelcard will only get me to Zone 6 (Moor Park).
>> Is it possible to get an extension before I travel or do I have to bail
>> at Moor Park and re-enter the system in both directions?
>
> I believe you can buy a zonal extension ticket from a TfL TVM:
>
> https://www.london.gov.uk/who-we-are/what-london-assembly-does/questions-mayor/find-an-answer/tube-extension-tickets

That doesn't seem to cover my case, but thanks for the link.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Re: Ticketing enquiry

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Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2023 16:30:16 GMT
X-Received-Bytes: 1864
 by: Recliner - Sun, 10 Dec 2023 16:30 UTC

Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> On 10/12/2023 15:18, Recliner wrote:
>> On Sun, 10 Dec 2023 14:44:17 +0000, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> I need to travel from Guildford to Chesham (and back) sometime in the
>>> near future, a 1 day travelcard will only get me to Zone 6 (Moor Park).
>>> Is it possible to get an extension before I travel or do I have to bail
>>> at Moor Park and re-enter the system in both directions?
>>
>> I believe you can buy a zonal extension ticket from a TfL TVM:
>>
>> https://www.london.gov.uk/who-we-are/what-london-assembly-does/questions-mayor/find-an-answer/tube-extension-tickets
>
> That doesn't seem to cover my case, but thanks for the link.

I thought it did: "For customers still using paper Travelcard tickets, LU
offers a simple, zonal extension ticket valid for two hours from the time
of issue. This is a fraud prevention measure."

So just buy one of those at a TfL TVM before commencing the journey to
Chesham. On the way back, just buy a paper single ticket from Chesham to
Moor Park.

Re: Ticketing enquiry

<ul6gss$33cbq$4@dont-email.me>

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From: rai...@greywall.demon.co.uk (Graeme Wall)
Newsgroups: uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: Ticketing enquiry
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2023 08:22:52 +0000
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Graeme Wall - Mon, 11 Dec 2023 08:22 UTC

On 10/12/2023 16:30, Recliner wrote:
> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 10/12/2023 15:18, Recliner wrote:
>>> On Sun, 10 Dec 2023 14:44:17 +0000, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I need to travel from Guildford to Chesham (and back) sometime in the
>>>> near future, a 1 day travelcard will only get me to Zone 6 (Moor Park).
>>>> Is it possible to get an extension before I travel or do I have to bail
>>>> at Moor Park and re-enter the system in both directions?
>>>
>>> I believe you can buy a zonal extension ticket from a TfL TVM:
>>>
>>> https://www.london.gov.uk/who-we-are/what-london-assembly-does/questions-mayor/find-an-answer/tube-extension-tickets
>>
>> That doesn't seem to cover my case, but thanks for the link.
>
> I thought it did: "For customers still using paper Travelcard tickets, LU
> offers a simple, zonal extension ticket valid for two hours from the time
> of issue. This is a fraud prevention measure."
>
> So just buy one of those at a TfL TVM before commencing the journey to
> Chesham. On the way back, just buy a paper single ticket from Chesham to
> Moor Park.
>

Can't find any recent information as to whether such extension tickets
still exist, the link is to a 2005 Q&A.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Re: Ticketing enquiry

<W1hFlhgZLudlFA2K@perry.uk>

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From: rol...@perry.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: Ticketing enquiry
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2023 10:22:17 +0000
Organization: Roland Perry
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 by: Roland Perry - Mon, 11 Dec 2023 10:22 UTC

In message <ul6gss$33cbq$4@dont-email.me>, at 08:22:52 on Mon, 11 Dec
2023, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>> I need to travel from Guildford to Chesham (and back) sometime in the
>>>>> near future, a 1 day travelcard will only get me to Zone 6 (Moor Park).
>>>>> Is it possible to get an extension before I travel or do I have to bail
>>>>> at Moor Park and re-enter the system in both directions?
>>>>
>>>> I believe you can buy a zonal extension ticket from a TfL TVM:
>>>>
>>>> https://www.london.gov.uk/who-we-are/what-london-assembly-does/questions-mayor/find-an-answer/tube-extension-tickets
>>>
>>> That doesn't seem to cover my case, but thanks for the link.

>> I thought it did: "For customers still using paper Travelcard
>>tickets, LU offers a simple, zonal extension ticket valid for two
>>hours from the time of issue. This is a fraud prevention measure."

>> So just buy one of those at a TfL TVM before commencing the journey
>>to Chesham. On the way back, just buy a paper single ticket from
>>Chesham to Moor Park.
>
>Can't find any recent information as to whether such extension tickets
>still exist, the link is to a 2005 Q&A.

I have an idea they were scrapped because the scheme was so complicated
no-one understood it (or bought them). But recliner must know, as a
travel expert actually living in London - perhaps he could pop out to
his nearest station and check.

On the other hand, I'll be at a TfL station later today and if I
remember I'll check.

ps <https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/travelcard_extension_fares_2>
might help, but the site is broken at the moment.
--
Roland Perry

Re: Ticketing enquiry

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Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2023 10:40:43 GMT
X-Received-Bytes: 2605
 by: Recliner - Mon, 11 Dec 2023 10:40 UTC

Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> On 10/12/2023 16:30, Recliner wrote:
>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On 10/12/2023 15:18, Recliner wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 10 Dec 2023 14:44:17 +0000, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I need to travel from Guildford to Chesham (and back) sometime in the
>>>>> near future, a 1 day travelcard will only get me to Zone 6 (Moor Park).
>>>>> Is it possible to get an extension before I travel or do I have to bail
>>>>> at Moor Park and re-enter the system in both directions?
>>>>
>>>> I believe you can buy a zonal extension ticket from a TfL TVM:
>>>>
>>>> https://www.london.gov.uk/who-we-are/what-london-assembly-does/questions-mayor/find-an-answer/tube-extension-tickets
>>>
>>> That doesn't seem to cover my case, but thanks for the link.
>>
>> I thought it did: "For customers still using paper Travelcard tickets, LU
>> offers a simple, zonal extension ticket valid for two hours from the time
>> of issue. This is a fraud prevention measure."
>>
>> So just buy one of those at a TfL TVM before commencing the journey to
>> Chesham. On the way back, just buy a paper single ticket from Chesham to
>> Moor Park.
>>
>
> Can't find any recent information as to whether such extension tickets
> still exist, the link is to a 2005 Q&A.

Yes, I can't find a reference to that ticket on the TfL ticketing pages.
But I've seen paper tickets to destinations well outside TfL-land available
on TfL TVMs. What I've never had reason to look for is a zone extension
ticket on the LU network.

Here's an example of a Tube station TVM offering to sell a ticket to a far
away obscure place:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/52115807672/

Re: Ticketing enquiry

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Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2023 10:40:44 GMT
X-Received-Bytes: 2780
 by: Recliner - Mon, 11 Dec 2023 10:40 UTC

Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
> In message <ul6gss$33cbq$4@dont-email.me>, at 08:22:52 on Mon, 11 Dec
> 2023, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>> I need to travel from Guildford to Chesham (and back) sometime in the
>>>>>> near future, a 1 day travelcard will only get me to Zone 6 (Moor Park).
>>>>>> Is it possible to get an extension before I travel or do I have to bail
>>>>>> at Moor Park and re-enter the system in both directions?
>>>>>
>>>>> I believe you can buy a zonal extension ticket from a TfL TVM:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.london.gov.uk/who-we-are/what-london-assembly-does/questions-mayor/find-an-answer/tube-extension-tickets
>>>>
>>>> That doesn't seem to cover my case, but thanks for the link.
>
>>> I thought it did: "For customers still using paper Travelcard
>>> tickets, LU offers a simple, zonal extension ticket valid for two
>>> hours from the time of issue. This is a fraud prevention measure."
>
>>> So just buy one of those at a TfL TVM before commencing the journey
>>> to Chesham. On the way back, just buy a paper single ticket from
>>> Chesham to Moor Park.
>>
>> Can't find any recent information as to whether such extension tickets
>> still exist, the link is to a 2005 Q&A.
>
> I have an idea they were scrapped because the scheme was so complicated
> no-one understood it (or bought them). But recliner must know, as a
> travel expert actually living in London - perhaps he could pop out to
> his nearest station and check.

It's not something I ever need to do personally, so I've never had reason
to search for such tickets. But I'll try to remember to look.

>
> On the other hand, I'll be at a TfL station later today and if I
> remember I'll check.
>
> ps <https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/travelcard_extension_fares_2>
> might help, but the site is broken at the moment.

Re: Ticketing enquiry

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Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2023 10:58:18 GMT
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 by: Recliner - Mon, 11 Dec 2023 10:58 UTC

Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> On 10/12/2023 16:30, Recliner wrote:
>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On 10/12/2023 15:18, Recliner wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 10 Dec 2023 14:44:17 +0000, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I need to travel from Guildford to Chesham (and back) sometime in the
>>>>> near future, a 1 day travelcard will only get me to Zone 6 (Moor Park).
>>>>> Is it possible to get an extension before I travel or do I have to bail
>>>>> at Moor Park and re-enter the system in both directions?
>>>>
>>>> I believe you can buy a zonal extension ticket from a TfL TVM:
>>>>
>>>> https://www.london.gov.uk/who-we-are/what-london-assembly-does/questions-mayor/find-an-answer/tube-extension-tickets
>>>
>>> That doesn't seem to cover my case, but thanks for the link.
>>
>> I thought it did: "For customers still using paper Travelcard tickets, LU
>> offers a simple, zonal extension ticket valid for two hours from the time
>> of issue. This is a fraud prevention measure."
>>
>> So just buy one of those at a TfL TVM before commencing the journey to
>> Chesham. On the way back, just buy a paper single ticket from Chesham to
>> Moor Park.
>>
>
> Can't find any recent information as to whether such extension tickets
> still exist, the link is to a 2005 Q&A.

This suggests that such extension tickets are still available, at PayGo
prices, but provides no information on how to buy them:

https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/transparency/freedom-of-information/foi-request-detail?referenceId=FOI-3569-1819

There's more info in this thread:

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/paper-tfl-travel-card-extension.243726/

Strangely, it suggests that such tickets can be bought from NR rather than
LU machines.

Re: Ticketing enquiry

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From: rai...@greywall.demon.co.uk (Graeme Wall)
Newsgroups: uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: Ticketing enquiry
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2023 11:40:29 +0000
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 by: Graeme Wall - Mon, 11 Dec 2023 11:40 UTC

On 11/12/2023 10:40, Recliner wrote:
> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 10/12/2023 16:30, Recliner wrote:
>>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 10/12/2023 15:18, Recliner wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 10 Dec 2023 14:44:17 +0000, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I need to travel from Guildford to Chesham (and back) sometime in the
>>>>>> near future, a 1 day travelcard will only get me to Zone 6 (Moor Park).
>>>>>> Is it possible to get an extension before I travel or do I have to bail
>>>>>> at Moor Park and re-enter the system in both directions?
>>>>>
>>>>> I believe you can buy a zonal extension ticket from a TfL TVM:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.london.gov.uk/who-we-are/what-london-assembly-does/questions-mayor/find-an-answer/tube-extension-tickets
>>>>
>>>> That doesn't seem to cover my case, but thanks for the link.
>>>
>>> I thought it did: "For customers still using paper Travelcard tickets, LU
>>> offers a simple, zonal extension ticket valid for two hours from the time
>>> of issue. This is a fraud prevention measure."
>>>
>>> So just buy one of those at a TfL TVM before commencing the journey to
>>> Chesham. On the way back, just buy a paper single ticket from Chesham to
>>> Moor Park.
>>>
>>
>> Can't find any recent information as to whether such extension tickets
>> still exist, the link is to a 2005 Q&A.
>
> Yes, I can't find a reference to that ticket on the TfL ticketing pages.
> But I've seen paper tickets to destinations well outside TfL-land available
> on TfL TVMs. What I've never had reason to look for is a zone extension
> ticket on the LU network.
>
> Here's an example of a Tube station TVM offering to sell a ticket to a far
> away obscure place:
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/52115807672/
>

Would it actually sell you a ticket? I can enter the details of my
intended journey on the Nation Rail site and it will take me through all
the steps up to and including specifying my old fogies' card, then it
crashes.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Re: Ticketing enquiry

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From: rai...@greywall.demon.co.uk (Graeme Wall)
Newsgroups: uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: Ticketing enquiry
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2023 11:45:10 +0000
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 by: Graeme Wall - Mon, 11 Dec 2023 11:45 UTC

On 11/12/2023 10:58, Recliner wrote:
> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 10/12/2023 16:30, Recliner wrote:
>>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 10/12/2023 15:18, Recliner wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 10 Dec 2023 14:44:17 +0000, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I need to travel from Guildford to Chesham (and back) sometime in the
>>>>>> near future, a 1 day travelcard will only get me to Zone 6 (Moor Park).
>>>>>> Is it possible to get an extension before I travel or do I have to bail
>>>>>> at Moor Park and re-enter the system in both directions?
>>>>>
>>>>> I believe you can buy a zonal extension ticket from a TfL TVM:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.london.gov.uk/who-we-are/what-london-assembly-does/questions-mayor/find-an-answer/tube-extension-tickets
>>>>
>>>> That doesn't seem to cover my case, but thanks for the link.
>>>
>>> I thought it did: "For customers still using paper Travelcard tickets, LU
>>> offers a simple, zonal extension ticket valid for two hours from the time
>>> of issue. This is a fraud prevention measure."
>>>
>>> So just buy one of those at a TfL TVM before commencing the journey to
>>> Chesham. On the way back, just buy a paper single ticket from Chesham to
>>> Moor Park.
>>>
>>
>> Can't find any recent information as to whether such extension tickets
>> still exist, the link is to a 2005 Q&A.
>
> This suggests that such extension tickets are still available, at PayGo
> prices, but provides no information on how to buy them:
>
> https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/transparency/freedom-of-information/foi-request-detail?referenceId=FOI-3569-1819
>
> There's more info in this thread:
>
> https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/paper-tfl-travel-card-extension.243726/
>
> Strangely, it suggests that such tickets can be bought from NR rather than
> LU machines.

Reading that through, it does seem the best option is to bail out in
Zone 6 and come back in on contactless!
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Re: Ticketing enquiry

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Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2023 11:49:21 GMT
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 by: Recliner - Mon, 11 Dec 2023 11:49 UTC

Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> On 11/12/2023 10:40, Recliner wrote:
>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On 10/12/2023 16:30, Recliner wrote:
>>>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> On 10/12/2023 15:18, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>> On Sun, 10 Dec 2023 14:44:17 +0000, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I need to travel from Guildford to Chesham (and back) sometime in the
>>>>>>> near future, a 1 day travelcard will only get me to Zone 6 (Moor Park).
>>>>>>> Is it possible to get an extension before I travel or do I have to bail
>>>>>>> at Moor Park and re-enter the system in both directions?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I believe you can buy a zonal extension ticket from a TfL TVM:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.london.gov.uk/who-we-are/what-london-assembly-does/questions-mayor/find-an-answer/tube-extension-tickets
>>>>>
>>>>> That doesn't seem to cover my case, but thanks for the link.
>>>>
>>>> I thought it did: "For customers still using paper Travelcard tickets, LU
>>>> offers a simple, zonal extension ticket valid for two hours from the time
>>>> of issue. This is a fraud prevention measure."
>>>>
>>>> So just buy one of those at a TfL TVM before commencing the journey to
>>>> Chesham. On the way back, just buy a paper single ticket from Chesham to
>>>> Moor Park.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Can't find any recent information as to whether such extension tickets
>>> still exist, the link is to a 2005 Q&A.
>>
>> Yes, I can't find a reference to that ticket on the TfL ticketing pages.
>> But I've seen paper tickets to destinations well outside TfL-land available
>> on TfL TVMs. What I've never had reason to look for is a zone extension
>> ticket on the LU network.
>>
>> Here's an example of a Tube station TVM offering to sell a ticket to a far
>> away obscure place:
>>
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/52115807672/
>>
>
> Would it actually sell you a ticket? I can enter the details of my
> intended journey on the Nation Rail site and it will take me through all
> the steps up to and including specifying my old fogies' card, then it
> crashes.
>

I think it would have done, but I wasn't going to spend real money on the
experiment. One problem with doing these tests is that a helpful TfL
employee soon appears alongside what they think is a confused visitor, keen
to help you complete your purchase.

Re: Ticketing enquiry

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Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2023 11:52:45 GMT
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 by: Recliner - Mon, 11 Dec 2023 11:52 UTC

Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> On 11/12/2023 10:58, Recliner wrote:
>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On 10/12/2023 16:30, Recliner wrote:
>>>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> On 10/12/2023 15:18, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>> On Sun, 10 Dec 2023 14:44:17 +0000, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I need to travel from Guildford to Chesham (and back) sometime in the
>>>>>>> near future, a 1 day travelcard will only get me to Zone 6 (Moor Park).
>>>>>>> Is it possible to get an extension before I travel or do I have to bail
>>>>>>> at Moor Park and re-enter the system in both directions?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I believe you can buy a zonal extension ticket from a TfL TVM:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.london.gov.uk/who-we-are/what-london-assembly-does/questions-mayor/find-an-answer/tube-extension-tickets
>>>>>
>>>>> That doesn't seem to cover my case, but thanks for the link.
>>>>
>>>> I thought it did: "For customers still using paper Travelcard tickets, LU
>>>> offers a simple, zonal extension ticket valid for two hours from the time
>>>> of issue. This is a fraud prevention measure."
>>>>
>>>> So just buy one of those at a TfL TVM before commencing the journey to
>>>> Chesham. On the way back, just buy a paper single ticket from Chesham to
>>>> Moor Park.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Can't find any recent information as to whether such extension tickets
>>> still exist, the link is to a 2005 Q&A.
>>
>> This suggests that such extension tickets are still available, at PayGo
>> prices, but provides no information on how to buy them:
>>
>> https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/transparency/freedom-of-information/foi-request-detail?referenceId=FOI-3569-1819
>>
>> There's more info in this thread:
>>
>> https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/paper-tfl-travel-card-extension.243726/
>>
>> Strangely, it suggests that such tickets can be bought from NR rather than
>> LU machines.
>
> Reading that through, it does seem the best option is to bail out in
> Zone 6 and come back in on contactless!

Just make sure you don't miss the next Chesham train! They're only 2 tph.

Re: Ticketing enquiry

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From: rol...@perry.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: Ticketing enquiry
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2023 13:50:21 +0000
Organization: Roland Perry
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 by: Roland Perry - Mon, 11 Dec 2023 13:50 UTC

In message <LGBdN.1283$RCGb.646@fx10.ams1>, at 10:40:43 on Mon, 11 Dec
2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:

>I can't find a reference to that ticket on the TfL ticketing pages.
>But I've seen paper tickets to destinations well outside TfL-land available
>on TfL TVMs. What I've never had reason to look for is a zone extension
>ticket on the LU network.

I asked one of the "helpers" at a tube station and they first tried to
persuade me to buy a Nationalrail single (from a Nationalrail vendor),
until I insisted it was a tube line.

But we went and looked at the TVM, and on the buy tickets screen there's
four options and the bottom right is for "Travelcard extensions" and a
3-zones single is £6.70

In other news, I've had yet another new parking app inflicted on me
[lookingforcarpark] to add to:

Ringo
PhoneAndPay
Justpark
Paybyphone
Saba

(Plus a different app to pre-book Saba)

And en-route I stumbled over YourParkingSpace.
--
Roland Perry

Re: Ticketing enquiry

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From: rol...@perry.uk (Roland Perry)
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Subject: Re: Ticketing enquiry
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 by: Roland Perry - Mon, 11 Dec 2023 13:59 UTC

In message <5HCdN.141$c8T6.132@fx05.ams1>, at 11:49:21 on Mon, 11 Dec
2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:

>One problem with doing these tests is that a helpful TfL employee soon
>appears alongside what they think is a confused visitor, keen to help
>you complete your purchase.

I presume you are being ironic. At the station I just visited there were
two of them stood gossiping about six feet inside the barrier line and I
had to attract their attention.
--
Roland Perry

Re: Ticketing enquiry

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From: rol...@perry.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: Ticketing enquiry
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2023 14:02:23 +0000
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 by: Roland Perry - Mon, 11 Dec 2023 14:02 UTC

In message <JoQSyJpdOxdlFAlR@perry.uk>, at 13:50:21 on Mon, 11 Dec 2023,
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> remarked:
>In message <LGBdN.1283$RCGb.646@fx10.ams1>, at 10:40:43 on Mon, 11 Dec
>2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>
>>I can't find a reference to that ticket on the TfL ticketing pages.
>>But I've seen paper tickets to destinations well outside TfL-land available
>>on TfL TVMs. What I've never had reason to look for is a zone extension
>>ticket on the LU network.
>
>I asked one of the "helpers" at a tube station and they first tried to
>persuade me to buy a Nationalrail single (from a Nationalrail vendor),
>until I insisted it was a tube line.
>
>But we went and looked at the TVM, and on the buy tickets screen
>there's four options and the bottom right is for "Travelcard
>extensions" and a 3-zones single is £6.70

It's a generic ticket for any tube line, but is perhaps only valid for
3hrs, so buy it wherever you change to the Met.

>In other news, I've had yet another new parking app inflicted on me
>[lookingforcarpark] to add to:
>
>Ringo
>PhoneAndPay
>Justpark
>Paybyphone
>Saba
>
>(Plus a different app to pre-book Saba)
>
>And en-route I stumbled over YourParkingSpace.

--
Roland Perry

Re: Ticketing enquiry

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From: recliner...@gmail.com (Recliner)
Newsgroups: uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: Ticketing enquiry
Message-ID: <277enihh08ncajmn18l0n8ndq70ai68oc3@4ax.com>
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 by: Recliner - Mon, 11 Dec 2023 14:30 UTC

On Mon, 11 Dec 2023 13:59:26 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:

>In message <5HCdN.141$c8T6.132@fx05.ams1>, at 11:49:21 on Mon, 11 Dec
>2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>
>>One problem with doing these tests is that a helpful TfL employee soon
>>appears alongside what they think is a confused visitor, keen to help
>>you complete your purchase.
>
>I presume you are being ironic.

Not at all.

> At the station I just visited there were
>two of them stood gossiping about six feet inside the barrier line and I
>had to attract their attention.

Re: Ticketing enquiry

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From: recliner...@gmail.com (Recliner)
Newsgroups: uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: Ticketing enquiry
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 by: Recliner - Mon, 11 Dec 2023 14:40 UTC

On Mon, 11 Dec 2023 14:02:23 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:

>In message <JoQSyJpdOxdlFAlR@perry.uk>, at 13:50:21 on Mon, 11 Dec 2023,
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> remarked:
>>In message <LGBdN.1283$RCGb.646@fx10.ams1>, at 10:40:43 on Mon, 11 Dec
>>2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>
>>>I can't find a reference to that ticket on the TfL ticketing pages.
>>>But I've seen paper tickets to destinations well outside TfL-land available
>>>on TfL TVMs. What I've never had reason to look for is a zone extension
>>>ticket on the LU network.
>>
>>I asked one of the "helpers" at a tube station and they first tried to
>>persuade me to buy a Nationalrail single (from a Nationalrail vendor),
>>until I insisted it was a tube line.
>>
>>But we went and looked at the TVM, and on the buy tickets screen
>>there's four options and the bottom right is for "Travelcard
>>extensions" and a 3-zones single is £6.70

Good, so it does still exist.

>
>It's a generic ticket for any tube line, but is perhaps only valid for
>3hrs, so buy it wherever you change to the Met.

It should be OK if bought at Waterloo. It's about a 75 minute journey, so three hours allows lots of margin. I had
thought it was only valid for two hours, which should still be plenty.

There's basically two options from Waterloo:

- Bakerloo to Marylebone, Chiltern to Rickmansworth, Met to Chesham (this would be the most comfortable)

- Jubilee to Finchley Rd, then Met to Chesham. If the next Chesham is more than five minutes away, it might be better to
go to Harrow-on-the-Hill and wait there.

The best choice depends on the timing of the relatively infrequent Chiltern and Chesham trains. A journey planner should
be able to advise.

Re: Ticketing enquiry

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From: rai...@greywall.demon.co.uk (Graeme Wall)
Newsgroups: uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: Ticketing enquiry
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2023 14:58:59 +0000
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 by: Graeme Wall - Mon, 11 Dec 2023 14:58 UTC

On 11/12/2023 11:52, Recliner wrote:
> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 11/12/2023 10:58, Recliner wrote:
>>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 10/12/2023 16:30, Recliner wrote:
>>>>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> On 10/12/2023 15:18, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sun, 10 Dec 2023 14:44:17 +0000, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I need to travel from Guildford to Chesham (and back) sometime in the
>>>>>>>> near future, a 1 day travelcard will only get me to Zone 6 (Moor Park).
>>>>>>>> Is it possible to get an extension before I travel or do I have to bail
>>>>>>>> at Moor Park and re-enter the system in both directions?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I believe you can buy a zonal extension ticket from a TfL TVM:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.london.gov.uk/who-we-are/what-london-assembly-does/questions-mayor/find-an-answer/tube-extension-tickets
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That doesn't seem to cover my case, but thanks for the link.
>>>>>
>>>>> I thought it did: "For customers still using paper Travelcard tickets, LU
>>>>> offers a simple, zonal extension ticket valid for two hours from the time
>>>>> of issue. This is a fraud prevention measure."
>>>>>
>>>>> So just buy one of those at a TfL TVM before commencing the journey to
>>>>> Chesham. On the way back, just buy a paper single ticket from Chesham to
>>>>> Moor Park.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Can't find any recent information as to whether such extension tickets
>>>> still exist, the link is to a 2005 Q&A.
>>>
>>> This suggests that such extension tickets are still available, at PayGo
>>> prices, but provides no information on how to buy them:
>>>
>>> https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/transparency/freedom-of-information/foi-request-detail?referenceId=FOI-3569-1819
>>>
>>> There's more info in this thread:
>>>
>>> https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/paper-tfl-travel-card-extension.243726/
>>>
>>> Strangely, it suggests that such tickets can be bought from NR rather than
>>> LU machines.
>>
>> Reading that through, it does seem the best option is to bail out in
>> Zone 6 and come back in on contactless!
>
> Just make sure you don't miss the next Chesham train! They're only 2 tph.
>

That is always a problem!
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Re: Ticketing enquiry

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From: rai...@greywall.demon.co.uk (Graeme Wall)
Newsgroups: uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: Ticketing enquiry
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2023 15:02:32 +0000
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 by: Graeme Wall - Mon, 11 Dec 2023 15:02 UTC

On 11/12/2023 14:02, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <JoQSyJpdOxdlFAlR@perry.uk>, at 13:50:21 on Mon, 11 Dec 2023,
> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> remarked:
>> In message <LGBdN.1283$RCGb.646@fx10.ams1>, at 10:40:43 on Mon, 11 Dec
>> 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>
>>> I can't find a reference to that ticket on the TfL ticketing pages.
>>> But I've seen paper tickets to destinations well outside TfL-land
>>> available
>>> on TfL TVMs. What I've never had reason to look for is a zone extension
>>> ticket on the LU network.
>>
>> I asked one of the "helpers" at a tube station and they first tried to
>> persuade me to buy a Nationalrail single (from a Nationalrail vendor),
>> until I insisted it was a tube line.
>>
>> But we went and looked at the TVM, and on the buy tickets screen
>> there's four options and the bottom right is for "Travelcard
>> extensions" and a 3-zones single is £6.70

That's 13.40 just to get from Moor Park to Chesham and back. I'd be
better off just using contactless from Waterloo and getting a normal day
return from Guildford to Waterloo!

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Re: Ticketing enquiry

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From: rai...@greywall.demon.co.uk (Graeme Wall)
Newsgroups: uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: Ticketing enquiry
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2023 15:04:35 +0000
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 by: Graeme Wall - Mon, 11 Dec 2023 15:04 UTC

On 11/12/2023 14:40, Recliner wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Dec 2023 14:02:23 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>
>> In message <JoQSyJpdOxdlFAlR@perry.uk>, at 13:50:21 on Mon, 11 Dec 2023,
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> remarked:
>>> In message <LGBdN.1283$RCGb.646@fx10.ams1>, at 10:40:43 on Mon, 11 Dec
>>> 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>
>>>> I can't find a reference to that ticket on the TfL ticketing pages.
>>>> But I've seen paper tickets to destinations well outside TfL-land available
>>>> on TfL TVMs. What I've never had reason to look for is a zone extension
>>>> ticket on the LU network.
>>>
>>> I asked one of the "helpers" at a tube station and they first tried to
>>> persuade me to buy a Nationalrail single (from a Nationalrail vendor),
>>> until I insisted it was a tube line.
>>>
>>> But we went and looked at the TVM, and on the buy tickets screen
>>> there's four options and the bottom right is for "Travelcard
>>> extensions" and a 3-zones single is £6.70
>
> Good, so it does still exist.
>
>>
>> It's a generic ticket for any tube line, but is perhaps only valid for
>> 3hrs, so buy it wherever you change to the Met.
>
> It should be OK if bought at Waterloo. It's about a 75 minute journey, so three hours allows lots of margin. I had
> thought it was only valid for two hours, which should still be plenty.
>
> There's basically two options from Waterloo:
>
> - Bakerloo to Marylebone, Chiltern to Rickmansworth, Met to Chesham (this would be the most comfortable)
>
> - Jubilee to Finchley Rd, then Met to Chesham. If the next Chesham is more than five minutes away, it might be better to
> go to Harrow-on-the-Hill and wait there.
>
> The best choice depends on the timing of the relatively infrequent Chiltern and Chesham trains. A journey planner should
> be able to advise.

Haven't been able to find a timetable for the Met yet. Must say, I never
thought of using Chiltern

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Re: Ticketing enquiry

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 by: Recliner - Mon, 11 Dec 2023 16:12 UTC

Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> On 11/12/2023 14:40, Recliner wrote:
>> On Mon, 11 Dec 2023 14:02:23 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> In message <JoQSyJpdOxdlFAlR@perry.uk>, at 13:50:21 on Mon, 11 Dec 2023,
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> remarked:
>>>> In message <LGBdN.1283$RCGb.646@fx10.ams1>, at 10:40:43 on Mon, 11 Dec
>>>> 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>
>>>>> I can't find a reference to that ticket on the TfL ticketing pages.
>>>>> But I've seen paper tickets to destinations well outside TfL-land available
>>>>> on TfL TVMs. What I've never had reason to look for is a zone extension
>>>>> ticket on the LU network.
>>>>
>>>> I asked one of the "helpers" at a tube station and they first tried to
>>>> persuade me to buy a Nationalrail single (from a Nationalrail vendor),
>>>> until I insisted it was a tube line.
>>>>
>>>> But we went and looked at the TVM, and on the buy tickets screen
>>>> there's four options and the bottom right is for "Travelcard
>>>> extensions" and a 3-zones single is £6.70
>>
>> Good, so it does still exist.
>>
>>>
>>> It's a generic ticket for any tube line, but is perhaps only valid for
>>> 3hrs, so buy it wherever you change to the Met.
>>
>> It should be OK if bought at Waterloo. It's about a 75 minute journey,
>> so three hours allows lots of margin. I had
>> thought it was only valid for two hours, which should still be plenty.
>>
>> There's basically two options from Waterloo:
>>
>> - Bakerloo to Marylebone, Chiltern to Rickmansworth, Met to Chesham
>> (this would be the most comfortable)
>>
>> - Jubilee to Finchley Rd, then Met to Chesham. If the next Chesham is
>> more than five minutes away, it might be better to
>> go to Harrow-on-the-Hill and wait there.
>>
>> The best choice depends on the timing of the relatively infrequent
>> Chiltern and Chesham trains. A journey planner should
>> be able to advise.
>
> Haven't been able to find a timetable for the Met yet.

https://content.tfl.gov.uk/ttn-44-23-metropolitan-2-oct-23.pdf

But it might be easier to use City Mapper or the TfL Journey Planner.

> Must say, I never thought of using Chiltern

The Chiltern trains are faster and more comfortable than the Met and the
72TS is more comfortable than the 96TS. But there's less walking and no
steps with the Jubilee/Met option. If you take the latter, you get to try
the new Tube mobile phone signal for the first two stops.

I assume you're familiar with the Chesham branch? If not, it's my
favourite bit of the whole LU network: a long, bucolic, single-track rural
branch line to a station that still has its old water tower. It's the most
distant LU station from London, and couldn't be more different to Waterloo.

Re: Ticketing enquiry

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From: rai...@greywall.demon.co.uk (Graeme Wall)
Newsgroups: uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: Ticketing enquiry
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2023 17:20:44 +0000
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 by: Graeme Wall - Mon, 11 Dec 2023 17:20 UTC

On 11/12/2023 16:12, Recliner wrote:
> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 11/12/2023 14:40, Recliner wrote:
>>> On Mon, 11 Dec 2023 14:02:23 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In message <JoQSyJpdOxdlFAlR@perry.uk>, at 13:50:21 on Mon, 11 Dec 2023,
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> remarked:
>>>>> In message <LGBdN.1283$RCGb.646@fx10.ams1>, at 10:40:43 on Mon, 11 Dec
>>>>> 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I can't find a reference to that ticket on the TfL ticketing pages.
>>>>>> But I've seen paper tickets to destinations well outside TfL-land available
>>>>>> on TfL TVMs. What I've never had reason to look for is a zone extension
>>>>>> ticket on the LU network.
>>>>>
>>>>> I asked one of the "helpers" at a tube station and they first tried to
>>>>> persuade me to buy a Nationalrail single (from a Nationalrail vendor),
>>>>> until I insisted it was a tube line.
>>>>>
>>>>> But we went and looked at the TVM, and on the buy tickets screen
>>>>> there's four options and the bottom right is for "Travelcard
>>>>> extensions" and a 3-zones single is £6.70
>>>
>>> Good, so it does still exist.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> It's a generic ticket for any tube line, but is perhaps only valid for
>>>> 3hrs, so buy it wherever you change to the Met.
>>>
>>> It should be OK if bought at Waterloo. It's about a 75 minute journey,
>>> so three hours allows lots of margin. I had
>>> thought it was only valid for two hours, which should still be plenty.
>>>
>>> There's basically two options from Waterloo:
>>>
>>> - Bakerloo to Marylebone, Chiltern to Rickmansworth, Met to Chesham
>>> (this would be the most comfortable)
>>>
>>> - Jubilee to Finchley Rd, then Met to Chesham. If the next Chesham is
>>> more than five minutes away, it might be better to
>>> go to Harrow-on-the-Hill and wait there.
>>>
>>> The best choice depends on the timing of the relatively infrequent
>>> Chiltern and Chesham trains. A journey planner should
>>> be able to advise.
>>
>> Haven't been able to find a timetable for the Met yet.
>
> https://content.tfl.gov.uk/ttn-44-23-metropolitan-2-oct-23.pdf
>
> But it might be easier to use City Mapper or the TfL Journey Planner.
>
>> Must say, I never thought of using Chiltern
>
> The Chiltern trains are faster and more comfortable than the Met and the
> 72TS is more comfortable than the 96TS. But there's less walking and no
> steps with the Jubilee/Met option. If you take the latter, you get to try
> the new Tube mobile phone signal for the first two stops.
>
> I assume you're familiar with the Chesham branch? If not, it's my
> favourite bit of the whole LU network: a long, bucolic, single-track rural
> branch line to a station that still has its old water tower. It's the most
> distant LU station from London, and couldn't be more different to Waterloo.
>

I used to go to school in Amersham but I've never used the Chesham
branch, except once back in 1968/9 when I was doing the whole of the
then Underground network. Don't remember it at all. I will look out for
the water tower.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Re: Ticketing enquiry

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From: rol...@perry.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: Ticketing enquiry
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2023 20:54:12 +0000
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 by: Roland Perry - Mon, 11 Dec 2023 20:54 UTC

In message <ul78a8$36tqt$2@dont-email.me>, at 15:02:32 on Mon, 11 Dec
2023, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>On 11/12/2023 14:02, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <JoQSyJpdOxdlFAlR@perry.uk>, at 13:50:21 on Mon, 11 Dec
>>2023, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> remarked:
>>> In message <LGBdN.1283$RCGb.646@fx10.ams1>, at 10:40:43 on Mon, 11
>>>Dec 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>
>>>> I can't find a reference to that ticket on the TfL ticketing pages.
>>>>But I've seen paper tickets to destinations well outside TfL-land
>>>>available on TfL TVMs. What I've never had reason to look for is a
>>>>zone extension ticket on the LU network.
>>>
>>> I asked one of the "helpers" at a tube station and they first tried
>>>to persuade me to buy a Nationalrail single (from a Nationalrail
>>>vendor), until I insisted it was a tube line.
>>>
>>> But we went and looked at the TVM, and on the buy tickets screen
>>>there's four options and the bottom right is for "Travelcard
>>>extensions" and a 3-zones single is £6.70
>
>That's 13.40 just to get from Moor Park to Chesham and back. I'd be
>better off just using contactless from Waterloo and getting a normal
>day return from Guildford to Waterloo!

Quite probably, but that wasn't your original question.

When I travel to London by train, I always look at the relative pricing
of an outboundary travelcard vs a return to London Terminals and then
using Oyster.
--
Roland Perry

Re: Ticketing enquiry

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From: rol...@perry.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: Ticketing enquiry
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2023 20:56:48 +0000
Organization: Roland Perry
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 by: Roland Perry - Mon, 11 Dec 2023 20:56 UTC

In message <JoQSyJpdOxdlFAlR@perry.uk>, at 13:50:21 on Mon, 11 Dec 2023,
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> remarked:

>In other news, I've had yet another new parking app inflicted on me
>[lookingforcarpark] to add to:
>
>Ringo
>PhoneAndPay
>Justpark
>Paybyphone
>Saba
>
>(Plus a different app to pre-book Saba)
>
>And en-route I stumbled over YourParkingSpace.

And the new LFCP app wouldn't let me create an account. Having typed the
details in, it just threw them away and gave me a new blank form to
fill in. Three times, so I gave up.
--
Roland Perry


aus+uk / uk.transport.london / Ticketing enquiry

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