In message <saf5l2$kb6$2@dont-email.me>, at 10:46:10 on Thu, 17 Jun
2021, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk remarked:
>On 17/06/2021 10:35, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <saf4md$ets$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:29:49 on Thu, 17 Jun
>>2021, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk remarked:
>>
>>>>         "Cif is sold under the names Jif, Vim, Viss and Handy Andy,
>>>>          depending on which of the 51 countries it is sold in."
>>>>  But not the same as the white scouring powder in the cardboard
>>>>tube dispenser I recall as Vim. Handy Andy sounds familiar from the
>>>>USA, although probably a chain of DIY stores. The cleaning product
>>>>with that  name is South African.
>>>
>>> I remember Handy Andy in the UK 50 or more years ago.
>>>
>>> Ajax, which was previously mentioned, has not been available for
>>>some years now
>> Ajax was very similar to Vim.
>>
>>> I suspect they've been decreed as too dangerous for today's society.
>> For scrubbing pans, they are just too scratchy, and too hard on
>>people's hands.
>>
>>> and the similar looking Bar Keepers Friend for less years.
>> Still available if you know where to look. Although it appears to
>>have lost its distinctive conical packaging.
>
>I've not found it in my usual haunts but the new packaging may have
>deceived me. What does it look like now?

Cylindrical plastic bottle.
--
Roland Perry

<martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
> On 16/06/2021 21:59, Recliner wrote:
>> Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On Wed, 16 Jun 2021 19:36:07 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
>>>>> "Sam Wilson" <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote in message
>>>>> news:sad8oo$d5s$1@dont-email.me...
>>>>>> According to Wikipedia[1] it’s more complicated than that. I also
>>>>>> remember
>>>>>> MIS types with an IBM background being rather dismissive of anyone saying
>>>>>> “S Q L” rather than “sequel”, in the same sort of way that some Unix
>>>>>> people
>>>>>> snort when someone refers to a particular editor as “vye” rather than
>>>>>> “vee-eye”.
>>>>>
>>>>> And don't let's get started on the GIF debate - "jiff" or "giff". FWIW, I've
>>>>> always pronounced it with a hard g (giff) but I'm quite happy if some people
>>>>> pronounce it jiff - I won't start a little-/big-endian war over it ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> One curiosity is the frequent incorrect capitalisation of 'raw', as in raw
>>>> photographs. You can shoot JPEG and/or raw images, but not RAW images.
>>>
>>> It's capitalised because it's a file extension name, at one time it was
>>> (and in some circles it still is) normal to capitalise file extensions
>>> (eg, .DOC, .XLS, .TXT, .GIF, .COM, .EXE, .RAW, etc) whether or not they
>>> are actually an abbreviation, mainly in order to distinguish them from
>>> words that happen to share the same spelling.
>>>
>>
>> It's a file type, not a file name extension. Raw files have various
>> manufacturer-specific extensions, such as .arw, crw, .nef, .rw2. What they
>> don't have is a .raw enetension.
>
> I have some .raw files on my computer which are associated with
> Audacity, an audio processing and editing program. Raw audio I guess.

I suppose so. It's certainly nothing to do with raw image files.

This article says you can treat any kind of file as a raw data file in
Audacity and play it:
<https://www.techhive.com/article/221800/The_Sound_of_Music_Random_Data_Files_and_Programs.html>

There's an example of the MS-Paint program .exe file being played:
https://youtu.be/2xZgCVG_Bzk

I dare say some clubbers would happily dance to that 'music'!

On 17/06/2021 11:01, Recliner wrote:
> <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>> On 16/06/2021 21:59, Recliner wrote:
>>> Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 16 Jun 2021 19:36:07 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>> "Sam Wilson" <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:sad8oo$d5s$1@dont-email.me...
>>>>>>> According to Wikipedia[1] it’s more complicated than that. I also
>>>>>>> remember
>>>>>>> MIS types with an IBM background being rather dismissive of anyone saying
>>>>>>> “S Q L” rather than “sequel”, in the same sort of way that some Unix
>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>> snort when someone refers to a particular editor as “vye” rather than
>>>>>>> “vee-eye”.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And don't let's get started on the GIF debate - "jiff" or "giff". FWIW, I've
>>>>>> always pronounced it with a hard g (giff) but I'm quite happy if some people
>>>>>> pronounce it jiff - I won't start a little-/big-endian war over it ;-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> One curiosity is the frequent incorrect capitalisation of 'raw', as in raw
>>>>> photographs. You can shoot JPEG and/or raw images, but not RAW images.
>>>>
>>>> It's capitalised because it's a file extension name, at one time it was
>>>> (and in some circles it still is) normal to capitalise file extensions
>>>> (eg, .DOC, .XLS, .TXT, .GIF, .COM, .EXE, .RAW, etc) whether or not they
>>>> are actually an abbreviation, mainly in order to distinguish them from
>>>> words that happen to share the same spelling.
>>>>
>>>
>>> It's a file type, not a file name extension. Raw files have various
>>> manufacturer-specific extensions, such as .arw, crw, .nef, .rw2. What they
>>> don't have is a .raw enetension.
>>
>> I have some .raw files on my computer which are associated with
>> Audacity, an audio processing and editing program. Raw audio I guess.
>
> I suppose so. It's certainly nothing to do with raw image files.
>
> This article says you can treat any kind of file as a raw data file in
> Audacity and play it:
> <https://www.techhive.com/article/221800/The_Sound_of_Music_Random_Data_Files_and_Programs.html>
>
> There's an example of the MS-Paint program .exe file being played:
> https://youtu.be/2xZgCVG_Bzk
>
> I dare say some clubbers would happily dance to that 'music'!
>
My version of Audacity will strip the audio from video as well and seems
to open any any audio file I throw at it.

On 17/06/2021 10:21, Sam Wilson wrote:
> tim... <timsnews99@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I've had multiple arguments in the past with people over how one should say
>> DEC (Digital Equipment Company)
>
> “digital”

When I used their kit 30+ years ago, we understood that the company
wanted us to say "Digital" but we invariably pronounced it "deck".

Everyone I knew called the editor "vye" rather than "Vee Eye", even
after 20 years' service. The file format was always "Pee En Gee"
("ping" was the comms utility), and I don't recall even hearing /pəŋ/.

In message <saf594$kb6$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:39:47 on Thu, 17 Jun
2021, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk remarked:
>On 16/06/2021 21:59, Recliner wrote:
>> Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On Wed, 16 Jun 2021 19:36:07 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
>>>>> "Sam Wilson" <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote in message
>>>>> news:sad8oo$d5s$1@dont-email.me...
>>>>>> According to Wikipedia[1] it’s more complicated than that. I also
>>>>>> remember
>>>>>> MIS types with an IBM background being rather dismissive of anyone saying
>>>>>> “S Q L” rather than “sequel”, in the same sort of way that some Unix
>>>>>> people
>>>>>> snort when someone refers to a particular editor as “vye” rather than
>>>>>> “vee-eye”.
>>>>>
>>>>> And don't let's get started on the GIF debate - "jiff" or "giff".
>>>>>FWIW, I've
>>>>> always pronounced it with a hard g (giff) but I'm quite happy if
>>>>>some people
>>>>> pronounce it jiff - I won't start a little-/big-endian war over it ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> One curiosity is the frequent incorrect capitalisation of 'raw', as in raw
>>>> photographs. You can shoot JPEG and/or raw images, but not RAW images.
>>>
>>> It's capitalised because it's a file extension name, at one time it was
>>> (and in some circles it still is) normal to capitalise file extensions
>>> (eg, .DOC, .XLS, .TXT, .GIF, .COM, .EXE, .RAW, etc) whether or not they
>>> are actually an abbreviation, mainly in order to distinguish them from
>>> words that happen to share the same spelling.
>>>
>> It's a file type, not a file name extension. Raw files have various
>> manufacturer-specific extensions, such as .arw, crw, .nef, .rw2. What they
>> don't have is a .raw enetension.

There are a couple here:

https://whatext.com/raw

>I have some .raw files on my computer which are associated with
>Audacity, an audio processing and editing program. Raw audio I guess.

See type 3 at the link above.

I have some .RAW files which appear to be associated with Superbase
(although normally their files are *.SB?)

https://winworldpc.com/product/superbase/95-v300
--
Roland Perry

Certes <none@nowhere.net> wrote:
> On 17/06/2021 10:21, Sam Wilson wrote:
>> tim... <timsnews99@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I've had multiple arguments in the past with people over how one should say
>>> DEC (Digital Equipment Company)
>>
>> “digital”
>
> When I used their kit 30+ years ago, we understood that the company
> wanted us to say "Digital" but we invariably pronounced it "deck".

Yes. I think by that time they’d stopped promoting the DECsystem-10 and
the DECSYSTEM-20 (why they changed the capitalisation I don’t know).
“Isn’t every computer digital?”

> Everyone I knew called the editor "vye" rather than "Vee Eye", even
> after 20 years' service. The file format was always "Pee En Gee"
> ("ping" was the comms utility), and I don't recall even hearing /pəŋ/.

I’ve heard a mixture of vee-eye and vye, without any obvious consistency.
Ping was always the Packet InterNet Groper.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <saf594$kb6$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:39:47 on Thu, 17 Jun
> 2021, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk remarked:
>> On 16/06/2021 21:59, Recliner wrote:
>>> Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 16 Jun 2021 19:36:07 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>> "Sam Wilson" <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:sad8oo$d5s$1@dont-email.me...
>>>>>>> According to Wikipedia[1] it’s more complicated than that. I also
>>>>>>> remember
>>>>>>> MIS types with an IBM background being rather dismissive of anyone saying
>>>>>>> “S Q L” rather than “sequel”, in the same sort of way that some Unix
>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>> snort when someone refers to a particular editor as “vye” rather than
>>>>>>> “vee-eye”.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And don't let's get started on the GIF debate - "jiff" or "giff".
>>>>>> FWIW, I've
>>>>>> always pronounced it with a hard g (giff) but I'm quite happy if
>>>>>> some people
>>>>>> pronounce it jiff - I won't start a little-/big-endian war over it ;-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> One curiosity is the frequent incorrect capitalisation of 'raw', as in raw
>>>>> photographs. You can shoot JPEG and/or raw images, but not RAW images.
>>>>
>>>> It's capitalised because it's a file extension name, at one time it was
>>>> (and in some circles it still is) normal to capitalise file extensions
>>>> (eg, .DOC, .XLS, .TXT, .GIF, .COM, .EXE, .RAW, etc) whether or not they
>>>> are actually an abbreviation, mainly in order to distinguish them from
>>>> words that happen to share the same spelling.
>>>>
>>> It's a file type, not a file name extension. Raw files have various
>>> manufacturer-specific extensions, such as .arw, crw, .nef, .rw2. What they
>>> don't have is a .raw enetension.
>
> There are a couple here:
>
> https://whatext.com/raw

Lots of basic, amateurish mistakes in that piece. Best to ignore the whole
piece.

"Roland Perry" <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote in message
news:V6n8vkK5FlygFAqq@perry.uk...
> In message <sadb27$u27$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:06:15 on Wed, 16 Jun 2021,
> tim... <timsnews99@gmail.com> remarked:
>
>>I've had multiple arguments in the past with people over how one should
>>say DEC (Digital Equipment Company)
>
> I've never heard anyone pronounce it other than 'deck'.

well I did, hence the arguments

:-(

<martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote in message
news:saf4md$ets$1@dont-email.me...
> On 17/06/2021 06:38, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <sadlif$9uo$1@dont-email.me>, at 20:05:35 on Wed, 16 Jun 2021,
>> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <sadaqv$shn$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:01:58 on Wed, 16 Jun
>>>> 2021, NY <me@privacy.invalid> remarked:
>>>>> "Sam Wilson" <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote in message
>>>>> news:sad8oo$d5s$1@dont-email.me...
>>>>>> According to Wikipedia[1] it’s more complicated than that. I also
>>>>>> remember
>>>>>> MIS types with an IBM background being rather dismissive of anyone
>>>>>> saying
>>>>>> “S Q L” rather than “sequel”, in the same sort of way that
>>>>>> some Unix people
>>>>>> snort when someone refers to a particular editor as “vye” rather than
>>>>>> “vee-eye”.
>>>>>
>>>>> And don't let's get started on the GIF debate - "jiff" or "giff".
>>>>> FWIW,
>>>>> I've always pronounced it with a hard g (giff) but I'm quite happy if
>>>>> some people pronounce it jiff - I won't start a little-/big-endian war
>>>>> over it ;-)
>>>>
>>>> Jiff is a household cleaner, or if you are in the USA, peanut butter.
>>>
>>> Jif became Cif twenty years ago (in the UK at least); Jif remains a
>>> brand
>>> of lemon juice from the same manufacturer.
>>
>> Wonky: "Cif is a French brand of household cleaning products owned by
>> the Anglo-Dutch company Unilever, known as Jif in Australia, New
>> Zealand, Japan, Middle East and the Nordic countries."
>> ...
>> "Cif is sold under the names Jif, Vim, Viss and Handy Andy,
>> depending on which of the 51 countries it is sold in."
>>
>> But not the same as the white scouring powder in the cardboard tube
>> dispenser I recall as Vim. Handy Andy sounds familiar from the USA,
>> although probably a chain of DIY stores. The cleaning product with that
>> name is South African.
>
> I remember Handy Andy in the UK 50 or more years ago.
>
> Ajax, which was previously mentioned, has not been available for some
> years now and the similar looking Bar Keepers Friend for less years. I
> suspect they've been decreed as too dangerous for today's society.

I think it ceased to be a useful product when plastic baths became the norm,

It worked well on enamelled baths but completely destroys plastic ones

On Thu, 17 Jun 2021 11:12:33 +0100, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:

>On 17/06/2021 11:01, Recliner wrote:
>> <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>>> On 16/06/2021 21:59, Recliner wrote:
>>>> Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 16 Jun 2021 19:36:07 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>>>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>> "Sam Wilson" <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:sad8oo$d5s$1@dont-email.me...
>>>>>>>> According to Wikipedia[1] it?s more complicated than that. I also
>>>>>>>> remember
>>>>>>>> MIS types with an IBM background being rather dismissive of anyone saying
>>>>>>>> ?S Q L? rather than ?sequel?, in the same sort of way that some Unix
>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>> snort when someone refers to a particular editor as ?vye? rather than
>>>>>>>> ?vee-eye?.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And don't let's get started on the GIF debate - "jiff" or "giff". FWIW, I've
>>>>>>> always pronounced it with a hard g (giff) but I'm quite happy if some people
>>>>>>> pronounce it jiff - I won't start a little-/big-endian war over it ;-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One curiosity is the frequent incorrect capitalisation of 'raw', as in raw
>>>>>> photographs. You can shoot JPEG and/or raw images, but not RAW images.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's capitalised because it's a file extension name, at one time it was
>>>>> (and in some circles it still is) normal to capitalise file extensions
>>>>> (eg, .DOC, .XLS, .TXT, .GIF, .COM, .EXE, .RAW, etc) whether or not they
>>>>> are actually an abbreviation, mainly in order to distinguish them from
>>>>> words that happen to share the same spelling.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It's a file type, not a file name extension. Raw files have various
>>>> manufacturer-specific extensions, such as .arw, crw, .nef, .rw2. What they
>>>> don't have is a .raw enetension.
>>>
>>> I have some .raw files on my computer which are associated with
>>> Audacity, an audio processing and editing program. Raw audio I guess.
>>
>> I suppose so. It's certainly nothing to do with raw image files.
>>
>> This article says you can treat any kind of file as a raw data file in
>> Audacity and play it:
>> <https://www.techhive.com/article/221800/The_Sound_of_Music_Random_Data_Files_and_Programs.html>
>>
>> There's an example of the MS-Paint program .exe file being played:
>> https://youtu.be/2xZgCVG_Bzk
>>
>> I dare say some clubbers would happily dance to that 'music'!
>>
>My version of Audacity will strip the audio from video as well and seems
>to open any any audio file I throw at it.

I'm not surprised that it'll play files containing audio. What is surprising is that it'll play things like program .exe
files as if they were audio files.

On 17/06/2021 13:29, Recliner wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Jun 2021 11:12:33 +0100, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
>
>> On 17/06/2021 11:01, Recliner wrote:
>>> <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 16/06/2021 21:59, Recliner wrote:
>>>>> Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> On Wed, 16 Jun 2021 19:36:07 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>>>>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>> "Sam Wilson" <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:sad8oo$d5s$1@dont-email.me...
>>>>>>>>> According to Wikipedia[1] it?s more complicated than that. I also
>>>>>>>>> remember
>>>>>>>>> MIS types with an IBM background being rather dismissive of anyone saying
>>>>>>>>> ?S Q L? rather than ?sequel?, in the same sort of way that some Unix
>>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>>> snort when someone refers to a particular editor as ?vye? rather than
>>>>>>>>> ?vee-eye?.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And don't let's get started on the GIF debate - "jiff" or "giff". FWIW, I've
>>>>>>>> always pronounced it with a hard g (giff) but I'm quite happy if some people
>>>>>>>> pronounce it jiff - I won't start a little-/big-endian war over it ;-)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> One curiosity is the frequent incorrect capitalisation of 'raw', as in raw
>>>>>>> photographs. You can shoot JPEG and/or raw images, but not RAW images.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's capitalised because it's a file extension name, at one time it was
>>>>>> (and in some circles it still is) normal to capitalise file extensions
>>>>>> (eg, .DOC, .XLS, .TXT, .GIF, .COM, .EXE, .RAW, etc) whether or not they
>>>>>> are actually an abbreviation, mainly in order to distinguish them from
>>>>>> words that happen to share the same spelling.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> It's a file type, not a file name extension. Raw files have various
>>>>> manufacturer-specific extensions, such as .arw, crw, .nef, .rw2. What they
>>>>> don't have is a .raw enetension.
>>>>
>>>> I have some .raw files on my computer which are associated with
>>>> Audacity, an audio processing and editing program. Raw audio I guess.
>>>
>>> I suppose so. It's certainly nothing to do with raw image files.
>>>
>>> This article says you can treat any kind of file as a raw data file in
>>> Audacity and play it:
>>> <https://www.techhive.com/article/221800/The_Sound_of_Music_Random_Data_Files_and_Programs.html>
>>>
>>> There's an example of the MS-Paint program .exe file being played:
>>> https://youtu.be/2xZgCVG_Bzk
>>>
>>> I dare say some clubbers would happily dance to that 'music'!
>>>
>> My version of Audacity will strip the audio from video as well and seems
>> to open any any audio file I throw at it.
>
> I'm not surprised that it'll play files containing audio. What is surprising is that it'll play things like program .exe
> files as if they were audio files.
>
This is a windows free zone so I wouldn't know about that.

On Thu, 17 Jun 2021 13:41:59 +0100, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:

>On 17/06/2021 13:29, Recliner wrote:
>> On Thu, 17 Jun 2021 11:12:33 +0100, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
>>
>>> On 17/06/2021 11:01, Recliner wrote:
>>>> <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>>>>> On 16/06/2021 21:59, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>> Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Wed, 16 Jun 2021 19:36:07 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>>>>>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> "Sam Wilson" <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>> news:sad8oo$d5s$1@dont-email.me...
>>>>>>>>>> According to Wikipedia[1] it?s more complicated than that. I also
>>>>>>>>>> remember
>>>>>>>>>> MIS types with an IBM background being rather dismissive of anyone saying
>>>>>>>>>> ?S Q L? rather than ?sequel?, in the same sort of way that some Unix
>>>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>>>> snort when someone refers to a particular editor as ?vye? rather than
>>>>>>>>>> ?vee-eye?.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And don't let's get started on the GIF debate - "jiff" or "giff". FWIW, I've
>>>>>>>>> always pronounced it with a hard g (giff) but I'm quite happy if some people
>>>>>>>>> pronounce it jiff - I won't start a little-/big-endian war over it ;-)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> One curiosity is the frequent incorrect capitalisation of 'raw', as in raw
>>>>>>>> photographs. You can shoot JPEG and/or raw images, but not RAW images.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's capitalised because it's a file extension name, at one time it was
>>>>>>> (and in some circles it still is) normal to capitalise file extensions
>>>>>>> (eg, .DOC, .XLS, .TXT, .GIF, .COM, .EXE, .RAW, etc) whether or not they
>>>>>>> are actually an abbreviation, mainly in order to distinguish them from
>>>>>>> words that happen to share the same spelling.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's a file type, not a file name extension. Raw files have various
>>>>>> manufacturer-specific extensions, such as .arw, crw, .nef, .rw2. What they
>>>>>> don't have is a .raw enetension.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have some .raw files on my computer which are associated with
>>>>> Audacity, an audio processing and editing program. Raw audio I guess.
>>>>
>>>> I suppose so. It's certainly nothing to do with raw image files.
>>>>
>>>> This article says you can treat any kind of file as a raw data file in
>>>> Audacity and play it:
>>>> <https://www.techhive.com/article/221800/The_Sound_of_Music_Random_Data_Files_and_Programs.html>
>>>>
>>>> There's an example of the MS-Paint program .exe file being played:
>>>> https://youtu.be/2xZgCVG_Bzk
>>>>
>>>> I dare say some clubbers would happily dance to that 'music'!
>>>>
>>> My version of Audacity will strip the audio from video as well and seems
>>> to open any any audio file I throw at it.
>>
>> I'm not surprised that it'll play files containing audio. What is surprising is that it'll play things like program .exe
>> files as if they were audio files.
>>
>This is a windows free zone so I wouldn't know about that.

It's an executable program file. It's definitely not an audio file. It doesn't matter what OS it runs on.

In message <safdka$flm$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:02:18 on Thu, 17 Jun
2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <saf594$kb6$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:39:47 on Thu, 17 Jun
>> 2021, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk remarked:
>>> On 16/06/2021 21:59, Recliner wrote:
>>>> Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 16 Jun 2021 19:36:07 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>>>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>> "Sam Wilson" <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:sad8oo$d5s$1@dont-email.me...
>>>>>>>> According to Wikipedia[1] it’s more complicated than that. I also
>>>>>>>> remember
>>>>>>>> MIS types with an IBM background being rather dismissive of
>>>>>>>>anyone saying
>>>>>>>> “S Q L” rather than “sequel”, in the same sort of way
>>>>>>>>that some Unix
>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>> snort when someone refers to a particular editor as “vye”
>>>>>>>>rather than
>>>>>>>> “vee-eye”.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And don't let's get started on the GIF debate - "jiff" or "giff".
>>>>>>> FWIW, I've
>>>>>>> always pronounced it with a hard g (giff) but I'm quite happy if
>>>>>>> some people
>>>>>>> pronounce it jiff - I won't start a little-/big-endian war over it ;-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One curiosity is the frequent incorrect capitalisation of 'raw',
>>>>>>as in raw
>>>>>> photographs. You can shoot JPEG and/or raw images, but not RAW images.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's capitalised because it's a file extension name, at one time it was
>>>>> (and in some circles it still is) normal to capitalise file extensions
>>>>> (eg, .DOC, .XLS, .TXT, .GIF, .COM, .EXE, .RAW, etc) whether or not they
>>>>> are actually an abbreviation, mainly in order to distinguish them from
>>>>> words that happen to share the same spelling.
>>>>>
>>>> It's a file type, not a file name extension. Raw files have various
>>>> manufacturer-specific extensions, such as .arw, crw, .nef, .rw2. What they
>>>> don't have is a .raw enetension.
>>
>> There are a couple here:
>>
>> https://whatext.com/raw
>
>Lots of basic, amateurish mistakes in that piece. Best to ignore the whole
>piece.

If we did that than everything from Wikipedia to the Daily Telegraph,
would disappear in a puff of logic.
--
Roland Perry

"Sam Wilson" <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:safdji$fgk$1@dont-email.me...
> Certes <none@nowhere.net> wrote:
>> Everyone I knew called the editor "vye" rather than "Vee Eye", even
>> after 20 years' service. The file format was always "Pee En Gee"
>> ("ping" was the comms utility), and I don't recall even hearing /pəŋ/.
>
> I’ve heard a mixture of vee-eye and vye, without any obvious consistency.
> Ping was always the Packet InterNet Groper.

Yes, the presence of the ping command on UNIX and Windows (and no doubt
other OSes) is a good reason not to pronounce the PNG file format/extension
as "ping" and instead to pronounce the letters.

On Thu, 17 Jun 2021 13:48:57 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:

>In message <safdka$flm$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:02:18 on Thu, 17 Jun
>2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <saf594$kb6$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:39:47 on Thu, 17 Jun
>>> 2021, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk remarked:
>>>> On 16/06/2021 21:59, Recliner wrote:
>>>>> Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> On Wed, 16 Jun 2021 19:36:07 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>>>>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>> "Sam Wilson" <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:sad8oo$d5s$1@dont-email.me...
>>>>>>>>> According to Wikipedia[1] it’s more complicated than that. I also
>>>>>>>>> remember
>>>>>>>>> MIS types with an IBM background being rather dismissive of
>>>>>>>>>anyone saying
>>>>>>>>> “S Q L” rather than “sequel”, in the same sort of way
>>>>>>>>>that some Unix
>>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>>> snort when someone refers to a particular editor as “vye”
>>>>>>>>>rather than
>>>>>>>>> “vee-eye”.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And don't let's get started on the GIF debate - "jiff" or "giff".
>>>>>>>> FWIW, I've
>>>>>>>> always pronounced it with a hard g (giff) but I'm quite happy if
>>>>>>>> some people
>>>>>>>> pronounce it jiff - I won't start a little-/big-endian war over it ;-)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> One curiosity is the frequent incorrect capitalisation of 'raw',
>>>>>>>as in raw
>>>>>>> photographs. You can shoot JPEG and/or raw images, but not RAW images.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's capitalised because it's a file extension name, at one time it was
>>>>>> (and in some circles it still is) normal to capitalise file extensions
>>>>>> (eg, .DOC, .XLS, .TXT, .GIF, .COM, .EXE, .RAW, etc) whether or not they
>>>>>> are actually an abbreviation, mainly in order to distinguish them from
>>>>>> words that happen to share the same spelling.
>>>>>>
>>>>> It's a file type, not a file name extension. Raw files have various
>>>>> manufacturer-specific extensions, such as .arw, crw, .nef, .rw2. What they
>>>>> don't have is a .raw enetension.
>>>
>>> There are a couple here:
>>>
>>> https://whatext.com/raw
>>
>>Lots of basic, amateurish mistakes in that piece. Best to ignore the whole
>>piece.
>
>If we did that than everything from Wikipedia to the Daily Telegraph,
>would disappear in a puff of logic.

If you knew anything about photography, you'd know how bad that piece is, and would not have cited it. Just about every
sentence is wrong. It's not remotely comparable to Wikipedia and the Daily Telegraph, where you have to look for
errors.

In message <nnjmcgld5t86lcsga81fdeuq0nk3nq92e2@4ax.com>, at 14:37:18 on
Thu, 17 Jun 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>On Thu, 17 Jun 2021 13:48:57 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>In message <safdka$flm$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:02:18 on Thu, 17 Jun
>>2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <saf594$kb6$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:39:47 on Thu, 17 Jun
>>>> 2021, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk remarked:
>>>>> On 16/06/2021 21:59, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>> Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Wed, 16 Jun 2021 19:36:07 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>>>>>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> "Sam Wilson" <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>> news:sad8oo$d5s$1@dont-email.me...
>>>>>>>>>> According to Wikipedia[1] it’s more complicated than that. I also
>>>>>>>>>> remember
>>>>>>>>>> MIS types with an IBM background being rather dismissive of
>>>>>>>>>>anyone saying
>>>>>>>>>> “S Q L” rather than “sequel”, in the same sort of way
>>>>>>>>>>that some Unix
>>>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>>>> snort when someone refers to a particular editor as “vye”
>>>>>>>>>>rather than
>>>>>>>>>> “vee-eye”.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And don't let's get started on the GIF debate - "jiff" or "giff".
>>>>>>>>> FWIW, I've
>>>>>>>>> always pronounced it with a hard g (giff) but I'm quite happy if
>>>>>>>>> some people
>>>>>>>>> pronounce it jiff - I won't start a little-/big-endian war over it ;-)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> One curiosity is the frequent incorrect capitalisation of 'raw',
>>>>>>>>as in raw
>>>>>>>> photographs. You can shoot JPEG and/or raw images, but not RAW images.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's capitalised because it's a file extension name, at one time it was
>>>>>>> (and in some circles it still is) normal to capitalise file extensions
>>>>>>> (eg, .DOC, .XLS, .TXT, .GIF, .COM, .EXE, .RAW, etc) whether or not they
>>>>>>> are actually an abbreviation, mainly in order to distinguish them from
>>>>>>> words that happen to share the same spelling.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's a file type, not a file name extension. Raw files have various
>>>>>> manufacturer-specific extensions, such as .arw, crw, .nef, .rw2.
>>>>>>What they
>>>>>> don't have is a .raw enetension.
>>>>
>>>> There are a couple here:
>>>>
>>>> https://whatext.com/raw
>>>
>>>Lots of basic, amateurish mistakes in that piece. Best to ignore the whole
>>>piece.
>>
>>If we did that than everything from Wikipedia to the Daily Telegraph,
>>would disappear in a puff of logic.
>
>If you knew anything about photography, you'd know how bad that piece
>is, and would not have cited it. Just about every sentence is wrong.
>It's not remotely comparable to Wikipedia and the Daily Telegraph,
>where you have to look for errors.

Actually, errors in the Daily Telegraph leap out every single day.

Getting back to raw image files, is it your proposition that none of
"Panasonic, Leica, and Casio cameras" ever produced files of this
extension? If so, what's your source.
--
Roland Perry

On 2021-06-16 09:30:08 +0000, Mark Goodge said:

> On Wed, 16 Jun 2021 08:45:11 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> In message <sac73k$3pb$1@dont-email.me>, at 06:52:36 on Wed, 16 Jun
>> 2021, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> None of those are pronounceable words, as in Deans, Righer, WuhWuhWuh or
>>>>>> whatever it might be.
>>>>>
>>>>> “wuhwuhwuh” is the way I usually pronounce that abbreviation,
>>>>
>>>> Extraordinary (in the literal meaning of the word). I've heard thousands
>>>> of people pronounce it, and none at all that way.
>>>
>>> I have, and occasionally use it myself.
>>>>
>>>>> but I wouldn’t regard it as an acronym. The A in TLA is for
>>>>> abbreviation if it’s not pronounceable, acronym if it is.
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/tla>
>>>>
>>>> Although I have heard people pronounce FAQ as "fack".
>>
>>> That’s quite common.
>>
>> But doesn't seem to have been noticed by the Cambridge Dictionary
>> people. Or should we not take definitions like those as carved in
>> stone, and allow a degree of common usage to impinge?
>
> The wording on that web page is an example usage, not part of the
> definition, and for many people FAQ is an abbreviation rather than an
> acronym. So it's not wrong, per se.
>
> There are quite a few abbreviations which have a consonant/vowel
> combination that makes them pronounceable as an acronym, and are
> sometimes but not always used that way. FAQ is one such, so are RAF
> (some people pronounce it as "raff", but others say R-A-F) and lol
> ("loll" or l-o-l). But, on the other hand, although technically
> pronounceable as a word, I've never heard anyone refer to an estimated
> time of arrival as an "etta" (or "eeta") or a sports utility vehicle as
> a "suvv".

One that a lot of people get "wrong" is the vehicle manufacturere MAN.
The company is Maschinenfabrik Augsburg-Nürnberg, and the "correct" way
to say it is em ay en, not as a word man.

Robin

On Thu, 17 Jun 2021 14:49:45 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:

>In message <nnjmcgld5t86lcsga81fdeuq0nk3nq92e2@4ax.com>, at 14:37:18 on
>Thu, 17 Jun 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>On Thu, 17 Jun 2021 13:48:57 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>In message <safdka$flm$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:02:18 on Thu, 17 Jun
>>>2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <saf594$kb6$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:39:47 on Thu, 17 Jun
>>>>> 2021, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk remarked:
>>>>>> On 16/06/2021 21:59, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>> Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Wed, 16 Jun 2021 19:36:07 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>>>>>>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> "Sam Wilson" <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>> news:sad8oo$d5s$1@dont-email.me...
>>>>>>>>>>> According to Wikipedia[1] it’s more complicated than that. I also
>>>>>>>>>>> remember
>>>>>>>>>>> MIS types with an IBM background being rather dismissive of
>>>>>>>>>>>anyone saying
>>>>>>>>>>> “S Q L” rather than “sequel”, in the same sort of way
>>>>>>>>>>>that some Unix
>>>>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>>>>> snort when someone refers to a particular editor as “vye”
>>>>>>>>>>>rather than
>>>>>>>>>>> “vee-eye”.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> And don't let's get started on the GIF debate - "jiff" or "giff".
>>>>>>>>>> FWIW, I've
>>>>>>>>>> always pronounced it with a hard g (giff) but I'm quite happy if
>>>>>>>>>> some people
>>>>>>>>>> pronounce it jiff - I won't start a little-/big-endian war over it ;-)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> One curiosity is the frequent incorrect capitalisation of 'raw',
>>>>>>>>>as in raw
>>>>>>>>> photographs. You can shoot JPEG and/or raw images, but not RAW images.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It's capitalised because it's a file extension name, at one time it was
>>>>>>>> (and in some circles it still is) normal to capitalise file extensions
>>>>>>>> (eg, .DOC, .XLS, .TXT, .GIF, .COM, .EXE, .RAW, etc) whether or not they
>>>>>>>> are actually an abbreviation, mainly in order to distinguish them from
>>>>>>>> words that happen to share the same spelling.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's a file type, not a file name extension. Raw files have various
>>>>>>> manufacturer-specific extensions, such as .arw, crw, .nef, .rw2.
>>>>>>>What they
>>>>>>> don't have is a .raw enetension.
>>>>>
>>>>> There are a couple here:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://whatext.com/raw
>>>>
>>>>Lots of basic, amateurish mistakes in that piece. Best to ignore the whole
>>>>piece.
>>>
>>>If we did that than everything from Wikipedia to the Daily Telegraph,
>>>would disappear in a puff of logic.
>>
>>If you knew anything about photography, you'd know how bad that piece
>>is, and would not have cited it. Just about every sentence is wrong.
>>It's not remotely comparable to Wikipedia and the Daily Telegraph,
>>where you have to look for errors.
>
>Actually, errors in the Daily Telegraph leap out every single day.

Yes, there are a few errors in each edition of the paper as a whole, which you're too cheap to pay to access. But not in
every sentence.

You've cited a rubbish article that you simply didn't understand was rubbish. Stop pretending that you know anything
about the subject.

>
>Getting back to raw image files, is it your proposition that none of
>"Panasonic, Leica, and Casio cameras" ever produced files of this
>extension? If so, what's your source.

I own lots of cameras, and always shoot raw with them, and I can tell you that no camera manufacturers use .raw as the
file extension. You wouldn't know, but raw files are proprietary, and each manufacturer uses its own file extensions to
denote its proprietary files. You obviously also don't know that Casio hasn't made cameras for years.

As for the actual major manufactures:

Canon: CRW, CR2, CR3
Fuji: RAF
Leica: RWL
Nikon: NEF
Olympus: ORF
Panasonic: RW2
Pentax: PEF
Sony: ARW

Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk> wrote:
> On Wed, 16 Jun 2021 19:36:07 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
>>> "Sam Wilson" <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote in message
>>> news:sad8oo$d5s$1@dont-email.me...
>>>> According to Wikipedia[1] it’s more complicated than that. I also
>>>> remember
>>>> MIS types with an IBM background being rather dismissive of anyone saying
>>>> “S Q L” rather than “sequel”, in the same sort of way that some Unix
>>>> people
>>>> snort when someone refers to a particular editor as “vye” rather than
>>>> “vee-eye”.
>>>
>>> And don't let's get started on the GIF debate - "jiff" or "giff". FWIW, I've
>>> always pronounced it with a hard g (giff) but I'm quite happy if some people
>>> pronounce it jiff - I won't start a little-/big-endian war over it ;-)
>>>
>>>
>>
>> One curiosity is the frequent incorrect capitalisation of 'raw', as in raw
>> photographs. You can shoot JPEG and/or raw images, but not RAW images.
>
> It's capitalised because it's a file extension name, at one time it was
> (and in some circles it still is) normal to capitalise file extensions
> (eg, .DOC, .XLS, .TXT, .GIF, .COM, .EXE, .RAW, etc) whether or not they
> are actually an abbreviation, mainly in order to distinguish them from
> words that happen to share the same spelling.

No, raw files from my cameras have extensions of .CR2, .RAF or .ORF. “Raw”
is a generic term, not a file extension.

--
Jeremy Double

bob <email@domain.com> wrote:
> On 2021-06-16 09:30:08 +0000, Mark Goodge said:
>
>> On Wed, 16 Jun 2021 08:45:11 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> In message <sac73k$3pb$1@dont-email.me>, at 06:52:36 on Wed, 16 Jun
>>> 2021, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> None of those are pronounceable words, as in Deans, Righer, WuhWuhWuh or
>>>>>>> whatever it might be.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> “wuhwuhwuh” is the way I usually pronounce that abbreviation,
>>>>>
>>>>> Extraordinary (in the literal meaning of the word). I've heard thousands
>>>>> of people pronounce it, and none at all that way.
>>>>
>>>> I have, and occasionally use it myself.
>>>>>
>>>>>> but I wouldn’t regard it as an acronym. The A in TLA is for
>>>>>> abbreviation if it’s not pronounceable, acronym if it is.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/tla>
>>>>>
>>>>> Although I have heard people pronounce FAQ as "fack".
>>>
>>>> That’s quite common.
>>>
>>> But doesn't seem to have been noticed by the Cambridge Dictionary
>>> people. Or should we not take definitions like those as carved in
>>> stone, and allow a degree of common usage to impinge?
>>
>> The wording on that web page is an example usage, not part of the
>> definition, and for many people FAQ is an abbreviation rather than an
>> acronym. So it's not wrong, per se.
>>
>> There are quite a few abbreviations which have a consonant/vowel
>> combination that makes them pronounceable as an acronym, and are
>> sometimes but not always used that way. FAQ is one such, so are RAF
>> (some people pronounce it as "raff", but others say R-A-F) and lol
>> ("loll" or l-o-l). But, on the other hand, although technically
>> pronounceable as a word, I've never heard anyone refer to an estimated
>> time of arrival as an "etta" (or "eeta") or a sports utility vehicle as
>> a "suvv".
>
> One that a lot of people get "wrong" is the vehicle manufacturere MAN.
> The company is Maschinenfabrik Augsburg-Nürnberg, and the "correct" way
> to say it is em ay en, not as a word man.
>
> Robin
>
>

Em arr en if we are going to decide it is composed of German initials.

In message <safkkc$25j$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:01:48 on Thu, 17 Jun
2021, bob <email@domain.com> remarked:

>One that a lot of people get "wrong" is the vehicle manufacturere MAN.
>The company is Maschinenfabrik Augsburg-Nürnberg, and the "correct" way
>to say it is em ay en, not as a word man.

Similarity with BMW, although some insist on calling them "beamers".
--
Roland Perry

In message
<1197053252.645633440.979520.jmd.nospam-btinternet.com@news.individual.ne
t>, at 14:41:11 on Thu, 17 Jun 2021, Jeremy Double
<jmd.nospam@btinternet.com> remarked:
>Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk> wrote:
>> On Wed, 16 Jun 2021 19:36:07 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
>>>> "Sam Wilson" <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote in message
>>>> news:sad8oo$d5s$1@dont-email.me...
>>>>> According to Wikipedia[1] it’s more complicated than that. I also
>>>>> remember
>>>>> MIS types with an IBM background being rather dismissive of anyone saying
>>>>> “S Q L” rather than “sequel”, in the same sort of way that some Unix
>>>>> people
>>>>> snort when someone refers to a particular editor as “vye” rather than
>>>>> “vee-eye”.
>>>>
>>>> And don't let's get started on the GIF debate - "jiff" or "giff".
>>>>FWIW, I've
>>>> always pronounced it with a hard g (giff) but I'm quite happy if
>>>>some people
>>>> pronounce it jiff - I won't start a little-/big-endian war over it ;-)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> One curiosity is the frequent incorrect capitalisation of 'raw', as in raw
>>> photographs. You can shoot JPEG and/or raw images, but not RAW images.
>>
>> It's capitalised because it's a file extension name, at one time it was
>> (and in some circles it still is) normal to capitalise file extensions
>> (eg, .DOC, .XLS, .TXT, .GIF, .COM, .EXE, .RAW, etc) whether or not they
>> are actually an abbreviation, mainly in order to distinguish them from
>> words that happen to share the same spelling.
>
>No, raw files from my cameras have extensions of .CR2, .RAF or .ORF.

And what about cameras you haven't had?

>“Raw” is a generic term, not a file extension.

It could be both a generic terms and the file extension used by *some*
cameras.
--
Roland Perry

On 17/06/2021 16:00, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <safkkc$25j$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:01:48 on Thu, 17 Jun
> 2021, bob <email@domain.com> remarked:
>
>> One that a lot of people get "wrong" is the vehicle manufacturere MAN.
>> The company is Maschinenfabrik Augsburg-Nürnberg, and the "correct"
>> way to say it is em ay en, not as a word man.
>
> Similarity with BMW, although some insist on calling them "beamers".

But then BMW isn't a pronounceable syllable (even in Wales).

Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
> bob <email@domain.com> wrote:
>> On 2021-06-16 09:30:08 +0000, Mark Goodge said:
>>
>>> On Wed, 16 Jun 2021 08:45:11 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In message <sac73k$3pb$1@dont-email.me>, at 06:52:36 on Wed, 16 Jun
>>>> 2021, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> None of those are pronounceable words, as in Deans, Righer, WuhWuhWuh or
>>>>>>>> whatever it might be.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> “wuhwuhwuh” is the way I usually pronounce that abbreviation,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Extraordinary (in the literal meaning of the word). I've heard thousands
>>>>>> of people pronounce it, and none at all that way.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have, and occasionally use it myself.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> but I wouldn’t regard it as an acronym. The A in TLA is for
>>>>>>> abbreviation if it’s not pronounceable, acronym if it is.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/tla>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Although I have heard people pronounce FAQ as "fack".
>>>>
>>>>> That’s quite common.
>>>>
>>>> But doesn't seem to have been noticed by the Cambridge Dictionary
>>>> people. Or should we not take definitions like those as carved in
>>>> stone, and allow a degree of common usage to impinge?
>>>
>>> The wording on that web page is an example usage, not part of the
>>> definition, and for many people FAQ is an abbreviation rather than an
>>> acronym. So it's not wrong, per se.
>>>
>>> There are quite a few abbreviations which have a consonant/vowel
>>> combination that makes them pronounceable as an acronym, and are
>>> sometimes but not always used that way. FAQ is one such, so are RAF
>>> (some people pronounce it as "raff", but others say R-A-F) and lol
>>> ("loll" or l-o-l). But, on the other hand, although technically
>>> pronounceable as a word, I've never heard anyone refer to an estimated
>>> time of arrival as an "etta" (or "eeta") or a sports utility vehicle as
>>> a "suvv".
>>
>> One that a lot of people get "wrong" is the vehicle manufacturere MAN.
>> The company is Maschinenfabrik Augsburg-Nürnberg, and the "correct" way
>> to say it is em ay en, not as a word man.
>>
>> Robin
>>
>>
>
> Em arr en if we are going to decide it is composed of German initials.

And BMW is Bay Em Vay… ;-)

--
Jeremy Double

On 17/06/2021 16:04, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message
> <1197053252.645633440.979520.jmd.nospam-btinternet.com@news.individual.ne
> t>, at 14:41:11 on Thu, 17 Jun 2021, Jeremy Double
> <jmd.nospam@btinternet.com> remarked:
>> Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On Wed, 16 Jun 2021 19:36:07 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
>>>>> "Sam Wilson" <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote in message
>>>>> news:sad8oo$d5s$1@dont-email.me...
>>>>>> According to Wikipedia[1] it’s more complicated than that.  I also
>>>>>> remember
>>>>>> MIS types with an IBM background being rather dismissive of anyone
>>>>>> saying
>>>>>> “S Q L” rather than “sequel”, in the same sort of way that some Unix
>>>>>> people
>>>>>> snort when someone refers to a particular editor as “vye” rather than
>>>>>> “vee-eye”.
>>>>>
>>>>> And don't let's get started on the GIF debate - "jiff" or "giff".
>>>>> FWIW, I've
>>>>> always pronounced it with a hard g (giff) but I'm quite happy if
>>>>> some people
>>>>> pronounce it jiff - I won't start a little-/big-endian war over it ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> One curiosity is the frequent incorrect capitalisation of 'raw', as
>>>> in raw
>>>> photographs. You can shoot JPEG and/or raw images, but not RAW images.
>>>
>>> It's capitalised because it's a file extension name, at one time it was
>>> (and in some circles it still is) normal to capitalise file extensions
>>> (eg, .DOC, .XLS, .TXT, .GIF, .COM, .EXE, .RAW, etc) whether or not they
>>> are actually an abbreviation, mainly in order to distinguish them from
>>> words that happen to share the same spelling.
>>
>> No, raw files from my cameras have extensions of .CR2, .RAF or .ORF.
>
> And what about cameras you haven't had?
>
>> “Raw” is a generic term, not a file extension.
>
> It could be both a generic terms and the file extension used by *some*
> cameras.

It *could*, in the same way that we could rename all our JPEGs, PNGs,
etc. to *.image and leave the user to guess the format, but it wouldn't
be very helpful. .raw is also used (rarely) for certain audio files.