On 12/08/2021 01:00, Brian Gregory wrote:
> That's certainly the title but reading the text rather leaves one
> wondering about exactly what has been restored and how well it has been
> restored.

It looks as if they give a (or some) relay station a feed from a site
that is still working - Pontop Pike?

"Mark Carver" wrote in message news:inhiebFijmjU1@mid.individual.net...

>On 11/08/2021 09:55, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:
>> Probably depends on the structural damage assessment. It may be just a
>> lot
>> simpler to run new cables up the mast and have done with it.
>> Brian
>>
>You've still got to get the old ones out. The tube will be full of feeders.
>The TV feeders will be solid metal, about 150mm diameter too.

They could abandon the lift, and use the lift shaft space for temp feeders.
There is still a ladder for riggers :)
Regards
Colin

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On 12/08/2021 07:09, MB wrote:
> On 12/08/2021 01:00, Brian Gregory wrote:
>> That's certainly the title but reading the text rather leaves one
>> wondering about exactly what has been restored and how well it has been
>> restored.
>
> It looks as if they give a (or some) relay station a feed from a site
> that is still working - Pontop Pike?

The existing VP Tx antennas at the Eston Nab relay were turned to HP
yesterday, the three PSB transmitters re-tuned to 27, 24, 21 (Bilsdale's
allocations) the RBL antenna swung round to Pontop, and the power output
of the three transmitters set to 'maximum'.

So in short, they are using the existing relay to provide a service to
as wide as possible area. Ironically of course Eston Nab relay users
will have to run a rescan

I thought most of these sites had back up transmitters, but I guess shoving
more power up the aerial might do no good to something!

Brian

--

This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Mark Carver" <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:ink1jbF3lrlU1@mid.individual.net...
> On 12/08/2021 07:09, MB wrote:
>> On 12/08/2021 01:00, Brian Gregory wrote:
>>> That's certainly the title but reading the text rather leaves one
>>> wondering about exactly what has been restored and how well it has been
>>> restored.
>>
>> It looks as if they give a (or some) relay station a feed from a site
>> that is still working - Pontop Pike?
>
> The existing VP Tx antennas at the Eston Nab relay were turned to HP
> yesterday, the three PSB transmitters re-tuned to 27, 24, 21 (Bilsdale's
> allocations) the RBL antenna swung round to Pontop, and the power output
> of the three transmitters set to 'maximum'.
>
> So in short, they are using the existing relay to provide a service to as
> wide as possible area. Ironically of course Eston Nab relay users will
> have to run a rescan

On 12/08/2021 08:48, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:
> I thought most of these sites had back up transmitters, but I guess shoving
> more power up the aerial might do no good to something!
>
>
You can have as many back up transmitters as you like, but what use are
they when all the feeders in the mast are melted, and no one can get
near the site because the mast is still thought to be unsafe ?

As I predicted yesterday, they are deploying the Eston Nab as a 'quick
and dirty' way to get some sort of service back to some of the area.
BBC Tees FM and ILR Tees FM have relocated to Eston too.

In article <ink1jbF3lrlU1@mid.individual.net>,
Mark Carver <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 12/08/2021 07:09, MB wrote:
> > On 12/08/2021 01:00, Brian Gregory wrote:
> >> That's certainly the title but reading the text rather leaves one
> >> wondering about exactly what has been restored and how well it has been
> >> restored.
> >
> > It looks as if they give a (or some) relay station a feed from a site
> > that is still working - Pontop Pike?

> The existing VP Tx antennas at the Eston Nab relay were turned to HP
> yesterday, the three PSB transmitters re-tuned to 27, 24, 21 (Bilsdale's
> allocations) the RBL antenna swung round to Pontop, and the power output
> of the three transmitters set to 'maximum'.

> So in short, they are using the existing relay to provide a service to
> as wide as possible area. Ironically of course Eston Nab relay users
> will have to run a rescan

and change the polarisation of their aerials?

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On Wed, 11 Aug 2021 19:35:11 +0100, "NY" <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:

>BTW, which bozo chose to omit the U from Arqiva. Why can't companies use
>real names, rather than made-up computer-generated ones? I wasn't sure till
>the reporter said the name whether it was pronounced ark-ee-ver,
>ark-eye-ver, arkw-ee-ver, arkw-eye-ver, ark-ivver or ark-wivver. For the
>record, he pronounced it ark-ee-ver.

Why not ark-ee-va?

On 12/08/2021 09:00, charles wrote:
>
>> So in short, they are using the existing relay to provide a service to
>> as wide as possible area. Ironically of course Eston Nab relay users
>> will have to run a rescan
> and change the polarisation of their aerials?
>
Possibly yes. Though if the transmitter is operating at a much higher
power, it's a case of 'throw enough shit at a wall, and some of it will
stick' !

"Brian Gregory" <void-invalid-dead-dontuse@email.invalid> wrote in message
news:inj6lrFt332U1@mid.individual.net...
> On 11/08/2021 23:37, MB wrote:
>> BBC News
>>
>> Bilsdale transmitter fire: TV and radio services largely restored
>>
>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tees-58181439
>
> That's certainly the title but reading the text rather leaves one
> wondering about exactly what has been restored and how well it has been
> restored.

The article has been written by someone who doesn't understand the
technology enough to read between the lines of a press release.

If the total number of people served by Bilsdale and its relays is about 1
million (as has been reported) it seems a bit implausible that "Mast
operators, Arqiva, said it had managed to restore TV and radio services for
hundreds of thousands of people."
(https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tees-58181439)

Maybe it really *is* the case, but it seems unlikely that such a large
proportion of its viewers use Bilsdale's relays rather than the main
Bilsdale transmitter itself. I'd expect a journalist who is given that story
to write would question "is this likely or is there some hype in this press
release?".

I presume the plans for Bilsdale will be to install a temporary mast and
transmitter (maybe just to supply PSB1,2,3) while work is carried out on the
main mast and transmitters to restore the full six. I imagine COM7 will be
quietly forgotten about, rather than being supplied in the knowledge that it
will disappear again in a year or so when COM7 is killed off throughout the
UK.

The article could be summed up in a couple of sentences. "Homes which are
served by Bilsdale transmitter itself continue to be without TV and radio,
and there is no forecast for when this service will resume. Homes which are
served by one of the relays of Bilsdale are gradually regaining their
service, as alternative arrangements are made to supply each relay from a
source other than Bilsdale." (with approximate numbers of people).

Let's hope the mast itself is found to be structurally sound, because
demolishing the old mast and commissioning/erecting a new one will not be a
quick process. Even if the mast is sound, cleaning the inside of it and
running new cables/waveguides, together with setting up a new transmitter,
will all take time.

"Mark Carver" <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:ink4cbF47ojU1@mid.individual.net...
> On 12/08/2021 09:00, charles wrote:
>>
>>> So in short, they are using the existing relay to provide a service to
>>> as wide as possible area. Ironically of course Eston Nab relay users
>>> will have to run a rescan
>> and change the polarisation of their aerials?
>>
> Possibly yes. Though if the transmitter is operating at a much higher
> power, it's a case of 'throw enough shit at a wall, and some of it will
> stick' !

How feasible is it to change the polarisation of a transmitter. I imagine
it's more involved that unbolting the aerial, rotating it 90 degrees and
bolting it back on ;-)

On 12/08/2021 10:16, NY wrote:
>
> How feasible is it to change the polarisation of a transmitter. I
> imagine it's more involved that unbolting the aerial, rotating it 90
> degrees and bolting it back on ;-)

For relay stations that use log periodics or yagis, then yes, as simple
as that.

http://tx.mb21.co.uk/gallery/gallerypage.php?txid=759&pageid=2307

For higher power stations that use panels within a cylinder etc, not
possible. Although Bilsdale could change polarisation at any moment at
present !

On 12/08/2021 08:40, Mark Carver wrote:
> On 12/08/2021 07:09, MB wrote:
>> On 12/08/2021 01:00, Brian Gregory wrote:
>>> That's certainly the title but reading the text rather leaves one
>>> wondering about exactly what has been restored and how well it has been
>>> restored.
>>
>> It looks as if they give a (or some) relay station a feed from a site
>> that is still working - Pontop Pike?
>
> The existing VP Tx antennas at the Eston Nab relay were turned to HP
> yesterday, the three PSB transmitters re-tuned to 27, 24, 21 (Bilsdale's
> allocations) the RBL antenna swung round to Pontop, and the power output
> of the three transmitters set to 'maximum'.
>
> So in short, they are using the existing relay to provide a service to
> as wide as possible area. Ironically of course Eston Nab relay users
> will have to run a rescan

Which will probably have strange results because they will have VP aerials.
Bill

On 12/08/2021 10:38, williamwright wrote:
> On 12/08/2021 08:40, Mark Carver wrote:
>> On 12/08/2021 07:09, MB wrote:
>>> On 12/08/2021 01:00, Brian Gregory wrote:
>>>> That's certainly the title but reading the text rather leaves one
>>>> wondering about exactly what has been restored and how well it has
>>>> been
>>>> restored.
>>>
>>> It looks as if they give a (or some) relay station a feed from a
>>> site that is still working - Pontop Pike?
>>
>> The existing VP Tx antennas at the Eston Nab relay were turned to HP
>> yesterday, the three PSB transmitters re-tuned to 27, 24, 21
>> (Bilsdale's allocations) the RBL antenna swung round to Pontop, and
>> the power output of the three transmitters set to 'maximum'.
>>
>> So in short, they are using the existing relay to provide a service
>> to as wide as possible area. Ironically of course Eston Nab relay
>> users will have to run a rescan
>
> Which will probably have strange results because they will have VP
> aerials.
>
Looking at the shots on mb21, I can't imagine you can push too much
power into those logs ?

What's the max power rating for them ?

On 12/08/2021 09:27, Mark Carver wrote:
> On 12/08/2021 09:00, charles wrote:
>>
>>> So in short, they are using the existing relay to provide a service to
>>> as wide as possible area. Ironically of course Eston Nab relay users
>>> will have to run a rescan
>> and change the polarisation of their aerials?
>>
> Possibly yes. Though if the transmitter is operating at a much higher
> power, it's a case of 'throw enough shit at a wall, and some of it will
> stick' !

Fairly mangled muxes though with the wrong polarisation aerial!
Generally about 20dB down and with great deep notches!

Bill

On 12/08/2021 10:41, williamwright wrote:
> On 12/08/2021 09:27, Mark Carver wrote:
>> On 12/08/2021 09:00, charles wrote:
>>>
>>>> So in short, they are using the existing relay to provide a service to
>>>> as wide as possible area. Ironically of course Eston Nab relay users
>>>> will have to run a rescan
>>> and change the polarisation of their aerials?
>>>
>> Possibly yes. Though if the transmitter is operating at a much higher
>> power, it's a case of 'throw enough shit at a wall, and some of it
>> will stick' !
>
> Fairly mangled muxes though with the wrong polarisation aerial!
> Generally about 20dB down and with great deep notches!
>
Well, Eston viewers have been sacrificed for the 'greater good'.

On 12/08/2021 09:00, Mark Carver wrote:

> As I predicted yesterday,

Smug bastard!

Bill

In article <ink875F513qU1@mid.individual.net>,
Mark Carver <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 12/08/2021 10:16, NY wrote:
> >
> > How feasible is it to change the polarisation of a transmitter. I
> > imagine it's more involved that unbolting the aerial, rotating it 90
> > degrees and bolting it back on ;-)

> For relay stations that use log periodics or yagis, then yes, as
> simple as that.

> http://tx.mb21.co.uk/gallery/gallerypage.php?txid=759&pageid=2307

> For higher power stations that use panels within a cylinder etc,
> not possible. Although Bilsdale could change polarisation at any
> moment at present !

LOL. Brilliant, thanks for that.

Bob.

On 12/08/2021 10:16, NY wrote:
>
> How feasible is it to change the polarisation of a transmitter. I
> imagine it's more involved that unbolting the aerial, rotating it 90
> degrees and bolting it back on ;-)

I would assume that they used phased arrays to direct most of the beam
slightly downwards. Rotating one of those would give a lot of coverage
to ET, and the local sheep, but only cover a narrow arc of TV viewers.

On 12/08/2021 11:12, David Woolley wrote:
> On 12/08/2021 10:16, NY wrote:
>>
>> How feasible is it to change the polarisation of a transmitter. I
>> imagine it's more involved that unbolting the aerial, rotating it 90
>> degrees and bolting it back on ;-)
>
> I would assume that they used phased arrays to direct most of the beam
> slightly downwards.  Rotating one of those would give a lot of
> coverage to ET, and the local sheep, but only cover a narrow arc of TV
> viewers.

Look at the photos, it's just a pair of logs, nothing sophisticated

In article <sf2osq$iqc$1@dont-email.me>,
NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
> "Mark Carver" <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
> news:ink4cbF47ojU1@mid.individual.net...
> > On 12/08/2021 09:00, charles wrote:
> >>
> >>> So in short, they are using the existing relay to provide a service to
> >>> as wide as possible area. Ironically of course Eston Nab relay users
> >>> will have to run a rescan
> >> and change the polarisation of their aerials?
> >>
> > Possibly yes. Though if the transmitter is operating at a much higher
> > power, it's a case of 'throw enough shit at a wall, and some of it will
> > stick' !

> How feasible is it to change the polarisation of a transmitter. I imagine
> it's more involved that unbolting the aerial, rotating it 90 degrees and
> bolting it back on ;-)

That depends on what sort of aerial it is. I can see (Looking at MB21) it
uses log periodics so it could be changed reasonably easily.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 12/08/2021 08:11, cmwb wrote:
>
> They could abandon the lift, and use the lift shaft space for temp
> feeders.
> There is still a ladder for riggers :)

Ha !  My 1970 Guinness Book of Records had a picture of Bilsdale, and
stated it had the UK's longest lift shaft ?

NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
> And I then pronounce it "Arqueever" to annoy them further.
> A Q without a following U is very Arabic. I wonder why the
> normal rule about Q always being followed by U arose.

FWIW, I recall hearing somewhere that the Normans imported it
into the then English from their version of French ... because
they couldn't cope with the Anglo-Saxon "cw".

#Paul

On 12/08/2021 14:53, Mark Carver wrote:
> Ha !  My 1970 Guinness Book of Records had a picture of Bilsdale, and
> stated it had the UK's longest lift shaft ?

Boulby Mine now?

Given that the aerial work at Emley is almost finished (the candle is
back in place) my money says a temporary mast, say 300ft, which would
establish at a guess about 80% coverage including all relays, then take
the 1050ft temp lattice mast down at Emley and build it as a permanent
replacement at Bilsdale?

On 12/08/2021 18:37, Woody wrote:
> Given that the aerial work at Emley is almost finished (the candle is
> back in place) my money says a temporary mast, say 300ft, which would
> establish at a guess about 80% coverage including all relays, then
> take the 1050ft temp lattice mast down at Emley and build it as a
> permanent replacement at Bilsdale?
>
Would that mast be 'man' enough to host all of the other (non
broadcast)  amount of clutter that Bilsdale has  ?

I agree though, it might be the best starting point, even if it's a temp
measure.