David Woolley wrote:

> On 13/08/2021 17:16, SH wrote:
>
>> You can buy optical couplers and fixed lengths of fibre with
>> pre-fitted connectors on both ends so its very easy to extend the fibre.
>
> Those will be for multi-mode fibres.  My impression is that FTT* is done
> using single mode fibres

you can get SM angle-polished versions

https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/fibre-optic-cable/5368345
https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/fibre-optic-adapters/5367819

You'd want some strain-relief and to stop people getting at the fibre
and bending/fiddling with it.

Andy Burns wrote:

> you can get SM angle-polished versions
>
> https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/fibre-optic-cable/5368345

That's a duplex and you only need a simplex, but you could split it and
get two for the price (and you'd probably want to!) but you get the idea.

In message <inns8oFs085U1@mid.individual.net>, Andy Burns
<usenet@andyburns.uk> writes
>David Woolley wrote:
>
>> On 13/08/2021 17:16, SH wrote:
>>
>>> You can buy optical couplers and fixed lengths of fibre with
>>>pre-fitted connectors on both ends so its very easy to extend the fibre.
>> Those will be for multi-mode fibres.  My impression is that FTT* is
>>done using single mode fibres
>
>you can get SM angle-polished versions
>
>https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/fibre-optic-cable/5368345
>https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/fibre-optic-adapters/5367819
>
>You'd want some strain-relief and to stop people getting at the fibre
>and bending/fiddling with it.
>
The problem with untrained people using fibres (well, certainly
single-mode, and optical wavelengths of 1310 and 1550 nm) is that total
surgical cleanliness is absolutely essential. A single tiny speck of
dust in the wrong place can kill the signal.
--
Ian

"williamwright" <wrightsaerials@f2s.com> wrote in message
news:innrqnFrtkbU1@mid.individual.net...
> On 13/08/2021 07:45, MB wrote:
>> On 13/08/2021 07:39, Andy Burns wrote:
>>> Just because I don't think we're anywhere near terrestrial switch-off,
>>> anywhere.
>>
>> I can remember some friends telling me that in their area some dealers
>> were telling people that DSO was terrestrial switch off and they had to
>> get Sky (FreeSat was never mentioned!)
>>
> In 2019, as we waited for the chips to cook, the proprietor of a Halifax
> chip shop informed me that the Emley mast was to be pulled down as it was
> no longer needed.

Was that on 1/4/2019, by any chance?

On 13/08/2021 19:12, David Woolley wrote:
> There may well be an advantage in the lightning damaging something in
> your house, rather than in the cabinet.

An advantage for whom?

On 13/08/2021 19:21, williamwright wrote:
> On the other hand it could all be insured!

At Eitshal we were told everything was insured and had been written off
i.e. then the property of the insurance company. But we could use any
of it to help restoration of service.

On 12/08/2021 10:53, williamwright wrote:
> --- Relays to be fed from 27.5W permanently, or switched off?

How do you do regional programming?

Andy

On 13/08/2021 20:26, MB wrote:
> On 13/08/2021 19:12, David Woolley wrote:
>> There may well be an advantage in the lightning damaging something in
>> your house, rather than in the cabinet.
>
> An advantage for whom?
>

To the network operator. I wasn't sure what it would be assuming that
they retain ownership of the network termination, so have to pay for the
repair. However, on further thought, it may completely eliminate the
lightning path into their equipment.

On 13/08/2021 20:21, Ian Jackson wrote:
> In message<inns8oFs085U1@mid.individual.net>, Andy Burns
> <usenet@andyburns.uk> writes
>> David Woolley wrote:
>>
>>> On 13/08/2021 17:16, SH wrote:
>>>
>>>> You can buy optical couplers and fixed lengths of fibre with
>>>> pre-fitted connectors on both ends so its very easy to extend the fibre.
>>> Those will be for multi-mode fibres. My impression is that FTT* is
>>> done using single mode fibres
>>
>> you can get SM angle-polished versions
>>
>> https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/fibre-optic-cable/5368345
>> https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/fibre-optic-adapters/5367819
>>
>> You'd want some strain-relief and to stop people getting at the fibre
>> and bending/fiddling with it.
>>
> The problem with untrained people using fibres (well, certainly
> single-mode, and optical wavelengths of 1310 and 1550 nm) is that total
> surgical cleanliness is absolutely essential. A single tiny speck of
> dust in the wrong place can kill the signal.

When I was being trained on monomode fibre, I was told that it was
essential to keep the air away from the mating ends until the last
possible moment because the water vapour in the air will corrode any
optical fibre exposed to it and there would then be a lossy joint.

I wonder how many RS customers are aware of that?

Jim

On 13/08/2021 20:22, NY wrote:

>> In 2019, as we waited for the chips to cook, the proprietor of a
>> Halifax chip shop informed me that the Emley mast was to be pulled
>> down as it was no longer needed.
>
> Was that on 1/4/2019, by any chance?

No, the man had all the sincerity of the severely deluded.

Bill

In message <sf6qtl$g9h$1@dont-email.me>, Indy Jess John
<bathwatchdog@OMITTHISgooglemail.com> writes
>On 13/08/2021 20:21, Ian Jackson wrote:
>> In message<inns8oFs085U1@mid.individual.net>, Andy Burns
>> <usenet@andyburns.uk> writes
>>> David Woolley wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 13/08/2021 17:16, SH wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> You can buy optical couplers and fixed lengths of fibre with
>>>>> pre-fitted connectors on both ends so its very easy to extend the fibre.
>>>> Those will be for multi-mode fibres. My impression is that FTT* is
>>>> done using single mode fibres
>>>
>>> you can get SM angle-polished versions
>>>
>>> https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/fibre-optic-cable/5368345
>>> https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/fibre-optic-adapters/5367819
>>>
>>> You'd want some strain-relief and to stop people getting at the fibre
>>> and bending/fiddling with it.
>>>
>> The problem with untrained people using fibres (well, certainly
>> single-mode, and optical wavelengths of 1310 and 1550 nm) is that total
>> surgical cleanliness is absolutely essential. A single tiny speck of
>> dust in the wrong place can kill the signal.
>
>When I was being trained on monomode fibre, I was told that it was
>essential to keep the air away from the mating ends until the last
>possible moment because the water vapour in the air will corrode any
>optical fibre exposed to it and there would then be a lossy joint.
>
>I wonder how many RS customers are aware of that?
>
Not sure about 'corrosion'. I didn't think that glass corroded. The main
requirement is absolute cleanliness, and the avoidance of airborne dust.

The usual connectors used for fibre are not waterproof, so some moisture
will eventually inevitably get in even when the connectors are mated.
However, this doesn't seem to be a problem (eg the loss of the
connection doesn't seem to increase over time). Maybe the reference was
to fusion splicing (something I haven't don't for over 20 years). Even
then, I'm sure that the pre-fusion cleaning zap will remove any traces
of moisture.
--
Ian

So, will the internet be able to cope? I suspect not. Thus we aare left with
sattalite for free and cable at vast expense.
Brian

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"williamwright" <wrightsaerials@f2s.com> wrote in message
news:ink9dcF58a8U1@mid.individual.net...
> Are we close enough to DTT switch-off for Bilsdale to never be restored to
> its previous state?
>
> --- Relays to be fed from 27.5W permanently, or switched off?
>
> --- Three muxes only (DTT lite) from a lowish powered low height new token
> Bilsdale?
>
> --- No coverage at all in the Emley Moor overlap area; no transmission to
> the south?
>
> --- Eston Nabb to be turned into a three mux 'main' tx permanently, but
> not with much power because it overlaps so much with Pontop Pike?
>
> --- Viewers in Swaledale etc, where Bilsdale is the only choice and is
> marginal, told 'hard luck', just the same as happened when the Whitby
> relay was moved to a stupid place?
>
> Is so, 'YAY!' will be the cry from the riggers of Sheffield, who are
> infuriated by CCI from Bilsdale wiping out Crosspool reception.
>
> Bill

No at least its wooden and hence recyclable, if it were a plastic spoon
however.
Brian

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"SH" <i.love.spam@spam.com> wrote in message
news:sf3vdc$1unr$1@gioia.aioe.org...
> On 12/08/2021 10:53, williamwright wrote:
>> Are we close enough to DTT switch-off for Bilsdale to never be restored
>> to its previous state?
>>
>> --- Relays to be fed from 27.5W permanently, or switched off?
>>
>> --- Three muxes only (DTT lite) from a lowish powered low height new
>> token Bilsdale?
>>
>> --- No coverage at all in the Emley Moor overlap area; no transmission to
>> the south?
>>
>> --- Eston Nabb to be turned into a three mux 'main' tx permanently, but
>> not with much power because it overlaps so much with Pontop Pike?
>>
>> --- Viewers in Swaledale etc, where Bilsdale is the only choice and is
>> marginal, told 'hard luck', just the same as happened when the Whitby
>> relay was moved to a stupid place?
>>
>> Is so, 'YAY!' will be the cry from the riggers of Sheffield, who are
>> infuriated by CCI from Bilsdale wiping out Crosspool reception.
>>
>> Bill
>
> You wind up merchant with yer wooden spoon!

So if the current bird used for freesat, or a lot of it, were to die, do
those running it have a replacement in mothballs to launch in its place? BY
now there must be a veritable junk yard of out of date, faulty or just
unused satellites up in that orbital neighbourhood. If they are out of fuel
and something were to hit them hard enough to break one up, then the debris
could very easily trash others on an increasingly regular basis, yet the
junk clearance technology being developed progress is at slug speed. I'd
predict a failure quite soon before they are ready, say within 5 years or
so.
Brian

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"williamwright" <wrightsaerials@f2s.com> wrote in message
news:inm34qFgknmU1@mid.individual.net...
> On 12/08/2021 21:13, SH wrote:
>> On 12/08/2021 10:53, williamwright wrote:
>>> Are we close enough to DTT switch-off for Bilsdale to never be restored
>>> to its previous state?
>>>
>>> --- Relays to be fed from 27.5W permanently, or switched off?
>>>
>>> --- Three muxes only (DTT lite) from a lowish powered low height new
>>> token Bilsdale?
>>>
>>> --- No coverage at all in the Emley Moor overlap area; no transmission
>>> to the south?
>>>
>>> --- Eston Nabb to be turned into a three mux 'main' tx permanently, but
>>> not with much power because it overlaps so much with Pontop Pike?
>>>
>>> --- Viewers in Swaledale etc, where Bilsdale is the only choice and is
>>> marginal, told 'hard luck', just the same as happened when the Whitby
>>> relay was moved to a stupid place?
>>>
>>> Is so, 'YAY!' will be the cry from the riggers of Sheffield, who are
>>> infuriated by CCI from Bilsdale wiping out Crosspool reception.
>>>
>>> Bill
>>
>> You wind up merchant with yer wooden spoon!
>
> No, dead serious! I assume the minimal amount of response here to my
> prognostication is that everyone has the vapours at the very idea!
>
> Bill

The problem is cramming more and more services into ever shrinking bandwidth
will inevitably mean for some, reception is unviable, that is the issue
here I think.
Brian

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"Andy Burns" <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote in message
news:inmicmFjje4U1@mid.individual.net...
> williamwright wrote:
>
>> SH wrote:
>>
>>> williamwright wrote:
>>>
>>>> Are we close enough to DTT switch-off for Bilsdale to never be restored
>>>> to its previous state?
>>>
>>> You wind up merchant with yer wooden spoon!
>>
>> I assume the minimal amount of response here to my prognostication is
>> that everyone has the vapours at the very idea!
>
> Just because I don't think we're anywhere near terrestrial switch-off,
> anywhere.
>

Yes but they were a few tiles short of a roof or in the pay of the owners of
Sky.
Brian

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"MB" <MB@nospam.net> wrote in message news:sf54dd$qh0$1@dont-email.me...
> On 13/08/2021 07:39, Andy Burns wrote:
>> Just because I don't think we're anywhere near terrestrial switch-off,
>> anywhere.
>
> I can remember some friends telling me that in their area some dealers
> were telling people that DSO was terrestrial switch off and they had to
> get Sky (FreeSat was never mentioned!)
>

Actually, I had a chat with an engineer about this last year and they said
that most companies are fighting a losing battle with vandals who keep on
breaking open the boxes in the street and he is surprised that nobody has
been electrocuted by now, Maybe they were?
Brian

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"Mark Carver" <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:inn0h0Fmdk2U1@mid.individual.net...
> On 13/08/2021 11:26, Woody wrote:
>>
>> Do VM do FTTP for domestic customers? Would it not be more likely to be
>> CityFibre (TT as was)?
>
> Our area was 'Virgin'd' five years ago. It is indeed FTTP, and easy to see
> that it is so, this morning I walked past a house where their domestic
> termination box had fallen off the wall, and the fibre splice ring could
> be seen. Both the street boxes near me have their doors happily swinging
> in the wind too. No copper to be seen.
>
> Pile of shite, I wouldn't touch them with a barge pole
>

On 13/08/2021 11:40, Mark Carver wrote:
> On 13/08/2021 11:26, Woody wrote:
>>
>> Do VM do FTTP for domestic customers? Would it not be more likely to
>> be CityFibre (TT as was)?
>
> Our area was 'Virgin'd' five years ago.  It is indeed FTTP, and easy to
> see that it is so, this morning I walked past a house where their
> domestic termination box had fallen off the wall, and the fibre splice
> ring could be seen. Both the street boxes near me have their doors
> happily swinging in the wind too. No copper to be seen.
>
> Pile of shite, I wouldn't touch them with a barge pole

The wiring to the houses is as bad. Usually just run over the ground, if
you're lucky in a green flexible "conduit". Nothing like BT phone lines.

--
Max Demian

On 14/08/2021 14:00, Max Demian wrote:
>
> The wiring to the houses is as bad. Usually just run over the ground, if
> you're lucky in a green flexible "conduit". Nothing like BT phone lines.

Exactly like BT phone lines around here, except the conduit. Here it's
just cables lying more or less exposed on the ground waiting to be
chewed up by verge cutting or ditch clearance.

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

In article <49mdnXSKRpnCI4r8nZ2dnUU78aednZ2d@brightview.co.uk>,
Max Demian <max_demian@bigfoot.com> wrote:
> On 13/08/2021 11:40, Mark Carver wrote:
> > On 13/08/2021 11:26, Woody wrote:
> >>
> >> Do VM do FTTP for domestic customers? Would it not be more likely to
> >> be CityFibre (TT as was)?
> >
> > Our area was 'Virgin'd' five years ago. It is indeed FTTP, and easy to
> > see that it is so, this morning I walked past a house where their
> > domestic termination box had fallen off the wall, and the fibre splice
> > ring could be seen. Both the street boxes near me have their doors
> > happily swinging in the wind too. No copper to be seen.
> >
> > Pile of shite, I wouldn't touch them with a barge pole

> The wiring to the houses is as bad. Usually just run over the ground, if
> you're lucky in a green flexible "conduit". Nothing like BT phone lines.

In the cause of my daughter's house, just flung over the hedge. SiL had
some strong words.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

Here's a thought once expounded to me by the area electrician at an
Arqiva main station.

Why not give everyone a satellite dish and a Freesat box - a once-off
cost? You can then turn off every terrestrial TV and radio transmitter
in the country. Think how much electricity that would save? It would
probably go a good distance towards resolving the lack of available
electricity to charge these EVs that we all seem to be forced towards
buying and/or using.

In article <sf8nsh$32c$1@dont-email.me>,
Woody <harrogate3@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> Here's a thought once expounded to me by the area electrician at an
> Arqiva main station.

> Why not give everyone a satellite dish and a Freesat box - a once-off
> cost? You can then turn off every terrestrial TV and radio transmitter
> in the country. Think how much electricity that would save? It would
> probably go a good distance towards resolving the lack of available
> electricity to charge these EVs that we all seem to be forced towards
> buying and/or using.

How would I get radio in my car ?

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

Woody <harrogate3@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> Here's a thought once expounded to me by the area electrician at an
> Arqiva main station.
>
> Why not give everyone a satellite dish and a Freesat box - a once-off
> cost? You can then turn off every terrestrial TV and radio transmitter
> in the country. Think how much electricity that would save? It would
> probably go a good distance towards resolving the lack of available
> electricity to charge these EVs that we all seem to be forced towards
> buying and/or using.
>

It would cost more in electricity. Satellite boxes, especially Sky ones
consume quite a lot in power, even in alleged standby. Remember the power
of a transmitter is given in effective radiated power. The actual
transmitter power is much less.

On Sat 14/08/2021 17:14, Tweed wrote:
> Woody <harrogate3@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>> Here's a thought once expounded to me by the area electrician at an
>> Arqiva main station.
>>
>> Why not give everyone a satellite dish and a Freesat box - a once-off
>> cost? You can then turn off every terrestrial TV and radio transmitter
>> in the country. Think how much electricity that would save? It would
>> probably go a good distance towards resolving the lack of available
>> electricity to charge these EVs that we all seem to be forced towards
>> buying and/or using.
>>
>
> It would cost more in electricity. Satellite boxes, especially Sky ones
> consume quite a lot in power, even in alleged standby. Remember the power
> of a transmitter is given in effective radiated power. The actual
> transmitter power is much less.
>

Since when has Sky been a Freesat box?

Woody <harrogate3@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> On Sat 14/08/2021 17:14, Tweed wrote:
>> Woody <harrogate3@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>>> Here's a thought once expounded to me by the area electrician at an
>>> Arqiva main station.
>>>
>>> Why not give everyone a satellite dish and a Freesat box - a once-off
>>> cost? You can then turn off every terrestrial TV and radio transmitter
>>> in the country. Think how much electricity that would save? It would
>>> probably go a good distance towards resolving the lack of available
>>> electricity to charge these EVs that we all seem to be forced towards
>>> buying and/or using.
>>>
>>
>> It would cost more in electricity. Satellite boxes, especially Sky ones
>> consume quite a lot in power, even in alleged standby. Remember the power
>> of a transmitter is given in effective radiated power. The actual
>> transmitter power is much less.
>>
>
> Since when has Sky been a Freesat box?
>

Where did I say that?

The other problem with relying entirely on satellite TV is that you put
your broadcasting system entirely in the hands of others, both technically
and politically and financially. If you’ve got no other means of
broadcasting to your population the satellite fees can mysteriously go
through the roof.

It also doesn’t take much for a hostile power to knock out your direct
broadcast satellites either.