On 14/08/2021 14:16, charles wrote:
>> The wiring to the houses is as bad. Usually just run over the ground, if
>> you're lucky in a green flexible "conduit". Nothing like BT phone lines.
> In the cause of my daughter's house, just flung over the hedge. SiL had
> some strong words.

Known technically as self-burying cables.

On Sat 14/08/2021 18:52, Tweed wrote:
> Woody <harrogate3@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>> On Sat 14/08/2021 17:14, Tweed wrote:
>>> Woody <harrogate3@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>>>> Here's a thought once expounded to me by the area electrician at an
>>>> Arqiva main station.
>>>>
>>>> Why not give everyone a satellite dish and a Freesat box - a once-off
>>>> cost? You can then turn off every terrestrial TV and radio transmitter
>>>> in the country. Think how much electricity that would save? It would
>>>> probably go a good distance towards resolving the lack of available
>>>> electricity to charge these EVs that we all seem to be forced towards
>>>> buying and/or using.
>>>>
>>>
>>> It would cost more in electricity. Satellite boxes, especially Sky ones
>>> consume quite a lot in power, even in alleged standby. Remember the power
>>> of a transmitter is given in effective radiated power. The actual
>>> transmitter power is much less.
>>>
>>
>> Since when has Sky been a Freesat box?
>>
>
> Where did I say that?
>
> The other problem with relying entirely on satellite TV is that you put
> your broadcasting system entirely in the hands of others, both technically
> and politically and financially. If you’ve got no other means of
> broadcasting to your population the satellite fees can mysteriously go
> through the roof.
>
> It also doesn’t take much for a hostile power to knock out your direct
> broadcast satellites either.
>

I said Freesat, not Freesat-from-Sky. Freeview is jointly owned by BBC,
ITV, Ch4, Sky and Arqiva: Freesat is jointly owned by BBC and ITV, so
where does this 'hands of others' come from?

If it ever gets to the stage of a 'hostile power' knocking out our
broadcast satellites I think we have a lot more to worry about than TV!

In article <sf914q$ju3$1@dont-email.me>, Woody <harrogate3@ntlworld.com>
wrote:
> On Sat 14/08/2021 18:52, Tweed wrote:
> > Woody <harrogate3@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> >> On Sat 14/08/2021 17:14, Tweed wrote:
> >>> Woody <harrogate3@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> >>>> Here's a thought once expounded to me by the area electrician at an
> >>>> Arqiva main station.
> >>>>
> >>>> Why not give everyone a satellite dish and a Freesat box - a
> >>>> once-off cost? You can then turn off every terrestrial TV and radio
> >>>> transmitter in the country. Think how much electricity that would
> >>>> save? It would probably go a good distance towards resolving the
> >>>> lack of available electricity to charge these EVs that we all seem
> >>>> to be forced towards buying and/or using.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> It would cost more in electricity. Satellite boxes, especially Sky
> >>> ones consume quite a lot in power, even in alleged standby. Remember
> >>> the power of a transmitter is given in effective radiated power. The
> >>> actual transmitter power is much less.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Since when has Sky been a Freesat box?
> >>
> >
> > Where did I say that?
> >
> > The other problem with relying entirely on satellite TV is that you put
> > your broadcasting system entirely in the hands of others, both
> > technically and politically and financially. If you‘ve got no other
> > means of broadcasting to your population the satellite fees can
> > mysteriously go through the roof.
> >
> > It also doesn‘t take much for a hostile power to knock out your direct
> > broadcast satellites either.
> >

> I said Freesat, not Freesat-from-Sky. Freeview is jointly owned by BBC,
> ITV, Ch4, Sky and Arqiva: Freesat is jointly owned by BBC and ITV, so
> where does this 'hands of others' come from?

presumably they rent the satellite from somebody?

> If it ever gets to the stage of a 'hostile power' knocking out our
> broadcast satellites I think we have a lot more to worry about than TV!

Yes.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

In article <sf8vt0$lb5$1@dont-email.me>,
MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
> On 14/08/2021 14:16, charles wrote:
> >> The wiring to the houses is as bad. Usually just run over the ground,
> >> if you're lucky in a green flexible "conduit". Nothing like BT phone
> >> lines.
> > In the cause of my daughter's house, just flung over the hedge. SiL had
> > some strong words.

> Known technically as self-burying cables.

A term I had not heard before. I shall try and remember it.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

In article <DdjnydCTIBGhFwel@brattleho.plus.com>,
Ian Jackson <ianREMOVETHISjackson@g3ohx.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <595bf04055charles@candehope.me.uk>, charles
> <charles@candehope.me.uk> writes
> >In article <sf8nsh$32c$1@dont-email.me>,
> > Woody <harrogate3@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> >> Here's a thought once expounded to me by the area electrician at an
> >> Arqiva main station.
> >
> >> Why not give everyone a satellite dish and a Freesat box - a once-off
> >> cost? You can then turn off every terrestrial TV and radio transmitter
> >> in the country. Think how much electricity that would save? It would
> >> probably go a good distance towards resolving the lack of available
> >> electricity to charge these EVs that we all seem to be forced towards
> >> buying and/or using.
> >
> >
> >How would I get radio in my car ?
> >
> On your smartphone (as data). I've only got one fairly recently, and
> it's amazing what you can do with it (in addition to making phone
> calls!).

at what cost? Radio broadcasts are free to receive.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 14/08/2021 19:13, Woody wrote:

> If it ever gets to the stage of a 'hostile power' knocking out our
> broadcast satellites I think we have a lot more to worry about than TV!
>
Yes maybe but it wouldn't be helpful would it?

Bill

On 14/08/2021 16:35, Woody wrote:
> Here's a thought once expounded to me by the area electrician at an
> Arqiva main station.
>
> Why not give everyone a satellite dish and a Freesat box

One box per TV set.

- a once-off
> cost?

Warranties?

> You can then turn off every terrestrial TV and radio transmitter
> in the country.

Resilience? State security?

Think how much electricity that would save?

Interesting to work it out. Sat boxes and LNBs use power. They are on
standby 24/7. Probably your idea would increase consumption.
One million sat boxes use 20,000,000W

Bill

On 14/08/2021 21:06, williamwright wrote:
> On 14/08/2021 16:35, Woody wrote:
>> Here's a thought once expounded to me by the area electrician at an
>> Arqiva main station.
>>
>> Why not give everyone a satellite dish and a Freesat box
>
> One box per TV set.
>
>  - a once-off
>> cost?
>
> Warranties?
>
>> You can then turn off every terrestrial TV and radio transmitter in
>> the country.
>
> Resilience? State security?
>
> Think how much electricity that would save?
>
> Interesting to work it out. Sat boxes and LNBs use power. They are on
> standby 24/7. Probably your idea would increase consumption.

Possibly in the short term, until all TVs have sat reception built-in.

> One million sat boxes use 20,000,000W

So 20MW. What do the transmitters consume? And how much CO2 from
launching a replacement satellite when an existing one goes U/S or
reaches EOL?

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

williamwright <wrightsaerials@f2s.com> wrote:
> On 14/08/2021 19:13, Woody wrote:
>
>> If it ever gets to the stage of a 'hostile power' knocking out our
>> broadcast satellites I think we have a lot more to worry about than TV!
>>
> Yes maybe but it wouldn't be helpful would it?
>
> Bill
>
>

We’ve already had civilian satellites having to “move out if the way”
because of hostile deliberate movements of satellites from others. An
“accidental” crossing of paths of the DBS satellites used by Astra is not
beyond the realms of possibility.

Other scenarios are coronal mass ejections damaging the satellites.

https://hesperia.gsfc.nasa.gov/rhessi3/mission/science/the-impact-of-flares/index.html

“One serious problem that can occur during a geomagnetic storm is damage to
Earth-orbiting satellites, especially those in high, geosynchronous orbits.
Communications satellites are generally in these high orbits. Either the
satellite becomes highly charged during the storm and a component is
damaged by the high current that discharges into the satellite, or a
component is damaged by high-energy particles that penetrate the satellite.
“

Probably in around about a decade or so fibre broadband might be
sufficiently pervasive that we might consider DTT switch off, but turning
if DTT in favour of satellite is not sensible.

On Sat, 14 Aug 2021 20:44:56 +0100, charles <charles@candehope.me.uk> wrote:

>> Known technically as self-burying cables.
>
> A term I had not heard before. I shall try and remember it.

Self-loading freight used to get on aeroplanes (remember them?) by itself.

On Fri, 13 Aug 2021 19:26:31 +0100, williamwright
<wrightsaerials@f2s.com> wrote:

> In 2019, as we waited for the chips to cook, the proprietor of a Halifax
> chip shop informed me that the Emley mast was to be pulled down as it
> was no longer needed.

Pulled down? What with?

In message <595c05086echarles@candehope.me.uk>, charles
<charles@candehope.me.uk> writes
>In article <DdjnydCTIBGhFwel@brattleho.plus.com>,
> Ian Jackson <ianREMOVETHISjackson@g3ohx.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <595bf04055charles@candehope.me.uk>, charles
>> <charles@candehope.me.uk> writes
>> >In article <sf8nsh$32c$1@dont-email.me>,
>> > Woody <harrogate3@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>> >> Here's a thought once expounded to me by the area electrician at an
>> >> Arqiva main station.
>> >
>> >> Why not give everyone a satellite dish and a Freesat box - a once-off
>> >> cost? You can then turn off every terrestrial TV and radio transmitter
>> >> in the country. Think how much electricity that would save? It would
>> >> probably go a good distance towards resolving the lack of available
>> >> electricity to charge these EVs that we all seem to be forced towards
>> >> buying and/or using.
>> >
>> >
>> >How would I get radio in my car ?
>> >
>> On your smartphone (as data). I've only got one fairly recently, and
>> it's amazing what you can do with it (in addition to making phone
>> calls!).
>
>at what cost? Radio broadcasts are free to receive.
>
While it's not free, it's not that expensive. You will also have access
to streamed TV and, of course, texts and phonecalls. Look for SIM deals
that give you a fair bit of data. [I'm a newbie to this technology, so
get some expert advice.]
--
Ian

On 14/08/2021 19:13, Woody wrote:
> If it ever gets to the stage of a 'hostile power' knocking out our
> broadcast satellites I think we have a lot more to worry about than TV!

With the way that Chinese and Russians operate, quite likely the
satellite would just stop working and both deny any knowledge of it.

On 14/08/2021 20:47, charles wrote:
>> On your smartphone (as data). I've only got one fairly recently, and
>> it's amazing what you can do with it (in addition to making phone
>> calls!).
> at what cost? Radio broadcasts are free to receive.

And does it work as well as DAB or even VHF FM in remote hilly areas.

Also most cars have their car radios integrated into the controls. Can
you control the mobile phone as easily whilst driving.

On Sat, 14 Aug 2021 16:35:45 +0100, Woody <harrogate3@ntlworld.com> wrote:

> Here's a thought once expounded to me by the area electrician at an
> Arqiva main station.

Probably a bit thick I guess.

> Why not give everyone a satellite dish and a Freesat box - a once-off
> cost? You can then turn off every terrestrial TV and radio transmitter
> in the country. Think how much electricity that would save?

How much electricity would it take to power all those extra LNBs, assuming
everything else is equal with the receivers?

> It would probably go a good distance towards resolving the lack of
> available electricity to charge these EVs that we all seem to be forced
> towards buying and/or using.

No it wouldn't. It's virtually f all in the grand scheme.

In article <sf9dkr$32a$1@dont-email.me>,
MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
> On 14/08/2021 19:13, Woody wrote:
> > If it ever gets to the stage of a 'hostile power' knocking out our
> > broadcast satellites I think we have a lot more to worry about than TV!

> With the way that Chinese and Russians operate, quite likely the
> satellite would just stop working and both deny any knowledge of it.

If the Russians did it there would be a bit of a fuss and war of
words for a while. If the Chinese did it, nothing would be said or
done.

Bob.

In message <sf9dl5$32a$2@dont-email.me>, MB <MB@nospam.net> writes
>On 14/08/2021 20:47, charles wrote:
>>> On your smartphone (as data). I've only got one fairly recently, and
>>> it's amazing what you can do with it (in addition to making phone
>>> calls!).
>> at what cost? Radio broadcasts are free to receive.
>
>And does it work as well as DAB or even VHF FM in remote hilly areas.
>
>Also most cars have their car radios integrated into the controls. Can
>you control the mobile phone as easily whilst driving.
>
Questions, questions!

At the moment, reception via the mobile phone system is obviously not as
good or convenient as from 'traditional' broadcast sites, but it
probably could be made to be. In-car entertainment equipment could
retain the same sort of user controls - ie they are actually phones, but
look and feel like radios. [Maybe some already are.]
--
Ian

Ian Jackson <ianREMOVETHISjackson@g3ohx.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <sf9dl5$32a$2@dont-email.me>, MB <MB@nospam.net> writes
>> On 14/08/2021 20:47, charles wrote:
>>>> On your smartphone (as data). I've only got one fairly recently, and
>>>> it's amazing what you can do with it (in addition to making phone
>>>> calls!).
>>> at what cost? Radio broadcasts are free to receive.
>>
>> And does it work as well as DAB or even VHF FM in remote hilly areas.
>>
>> Also most cars have their car radios integrated into the controls. Can
>> you control the mobile phone as easily whilst driving.
>>
> Questions, questions!
>
> At the moment, reception via the mobile phone system is obviously not as
> good or convenient as from 'traditional' broadcast sites, but it
> probably could be made to be. In-car entertainment equipment could
> retain the same sort of user controls - ie they are actually phones, but
> look and feel like radios. [Maybe some already are.]

My non car Roberts 94i internet radio has presets, which I’ve set for BBC
stations and Times Radio. So I see no real reason why a car “radio” can’t
do the same.

On 15/08/2021 16:15, Ian Jackson wrote:
> At the moment, reception via the mobile phone system is obviously not as
> good or convenient as from 'traditional' broadcast sites, but it
> probably could be made to be. In-car entertainment equipment could
> retain the same sort of user controls - ie they are actually phones, but
> look and feel like radios. [Maybe some already are.]

Why bother, at the moment we have a system designed for mobile reception
that combine two (or more?) base stations to improve reception so there
is often better reception that VHF FM in low signal areas. Perhaps
mobile phone reception might improve one day.

On 15/08/2021 16:31, Tweed wrote:
> My non car Roberts 94i internet radio has presets, which I’ve set for BBC
> stations and Times Radio. So I see no real reason why a car “radio” can’t
> do the same.

The 94i has presets but they are not thought out well.

MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
> On 15/08/2021 16:15, Ian Jackson wrote:
>> At the moment, reception via the mobile phone system is obviously not as
>> good or convenient as from 'traditional' broadcast sites, but it
>> probably could be made to be. In-car entertainment equipment could
>> retain the same sort of user controls - ie they are actually phones, but
>> look and feel like radios. [Maybe some already are.]
>
> Why bother, at the moment we have a system designed for mobile reception
> that combine two (or more?) base stations to improve reception so there
> is often better reception that VHF FM in low signal areas. Perhaps
> mobile phone reception might improve one day.
>
>
DAB is good when the transmitter network is properly engineered, as is the
BBC MUX. However Times Radio disappears in much of Northumberland as the
commercial MUX hasn’t bothered with a transmitter between Newcastle and
Edinburgh. Vodafone’s mobile reception is much better. The mobile not spots
seem to be slowly vanishing.

MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
> On 15/08/2021 16:31, Tweed wrote:
>> My non car Roberts 94i internet radio has presets, which I’ve set for BBC
>> stations and Times Radio. So I see no real reason why a car “radio” can’t
>> do the same.
>
> The 94i has presets but they are not thought out well.
>
>

In what way? There are 5 physical buttons, and pressing the button gets the
station. There’s umpteen more presets for position 6 onwards that needs a
twiddle of the selector knob.

On 15/08/2021 17:17, Tweed wrote:
> In what way? There are 5 physical buttons, and pressing the button gets the
> station. There’s umpteen more presets for position 6 onwards that needs a
> twiddle of the selector knob.

The five physical will just about handle the main stations.

If I want to "tune" from Preset 28 to Preset 31, I have to go back to
the menu and scroll through from Preset 1 to Preset 31.

There should be an option to have Preset 1 on a VHF FM station perhaps,
Preset 2 on a DAB one and perhaps Preset 3 on an Internet radio station.

Memory is cheap now so easy to lots of Presets / Memories but they need
to be easily accessible without too many keypresses.

On 15/08/2021 17:15, Tweed wrote:
> DAB is good when the transmitter network is properly engineered, as is the
> BBC MUX.

I have no interest in any of the other MUXes!

On 15/08/2021 17:15, Tweed wrote:
> DAB is good when the transmitter network is properly engineered, as is the
> BBC MUX.