On 08/10/2021 14:16, Mark Carver wrote:
> You will, but the telly is aimed at people who don't what any clutter
> attached to their telly. If your broadband drops out you're stuffed
> without a back up DTT tuner.

Often you cannot even watch your "recorded" programmes because they are
not actually recorded in your box and need the broadband connection to
see them.

On 08/10/2021 14:30, MB wrote:
> On 08/10/2021 14:16, Mark Carver wrote:
>> You will, but the telly is aimed at people who don't what any clutter
>> attached to their telly. If your broadband drops out you're stuffed
>> without a back up DTT tuner.
>
> Often you cannot even watch your "recorded" programmes because they
> are not actually recorded in your box and need the broadband
> connection to see them.

You mean 'streamed' ?

The Sky Q box does cache them in IME

On 08/10/2021 02:09 pm, Norman Wells wrote:
> On 08/10/2021 13:17, JNugent wrote:
>> On 08/10/2021 12:38 pm, Mark Carver wrote:
>>> On 08/10/2021 12:21, Andy Burns wrote:
>>>> Bob Latham wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Andy Burns wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Amazed that it has a DVB-T tuner ...
>>>>>
>>>>> I think that selling new TVs that have no DVB-T2 should have been
>>>>> illegal for some time.
>>>>
>>>> I just meant DVB-T as a generic for -T1 or -T2, it doesn't say
>>>> which, but given they've fitted one at all, I'd expect it's -T2
>>> Yes, that's how I interrupted your use of 'T'.
>>>
>>> It has to have a tuner, otherwise if you lose your internet
>>> connection the TV becomes nothing more than a very expensive flat
>>> panel lamp.
>>
>> On the other hand...
>>
>> ...as long as you don't watch anything via the aerial (or from the BBC
>> via iPlayer), you don't have to pay the BBC licence.
>
> That depends when you watch it and how it's delivered.  Avoiding both is
> a bit tricky.

Don't connect to an antenna and don't watch anything from BBC1, BBC2,
BBC3 (when and if restored), BBC4, BBC Alba, BBC News 24 and BBC
Parliament (as well as the childrens' BBC channels). That ought to do it.

On Fri, 8 Oct 2021 14:44:38 +0100, Mark Carver
<mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>On 08/10/2021 14:30, MB wrote:
>> On 08/10/2021 14:16, Mark Carver wrote:
>>> You will, but the telly is aimed at people who don't what any clutter
>>> attached to their telly. If your broadband drops out you're stuffed
>>> without a back up DTT tuner.
>>
>> Often you cannot even watch your "recorded" programmes because they
>> are not actually recorded in your box and need the broadband
>> connection to see them.
>
>You mean 'streamed' ?
>
>The Sky Q box does cache them in IME

To me this scheme just looks like what anyone with a suitable internet
connection can already do with any TV and an Amazon stick, but I
daresay lots will be conned into thinking it's something new.

Rod.

> > Often you cannot even watch your "recorded" programmes because
> > they are not actually recorded in your box and need the
> > broadband connection to see them.
> You mean 'streamed' ?
> The Sky Q box does cache them in IME

Sky Q downloads all catchup programmes to disk and shows them in the recordings
list, then plays them from disk so you don't miss part of the programme if the
internet glitches.

There is nothing in the recordings list that is not locally recorded, although
there are often links from those recordings to other episodes that can be
downloaded.

There is also what I consider to be a bug, where if you stop watching a
programme early, ie during the end credits, and then delete it, Sky Q will
offer to continue viewing and start downloading it. It also offers to
'continue' watching new episodes you've not started yet, which is confusing.

The only stuff that does not download in full are commercial streaming services,
Netflix, Prime, Disney, etc, which use apps and their own GUI separate to Sky Q.

Angus

On 08/10/2021 03:36 pm, Angus Robertson - Magenta Systems Ltd wrote:

>>> Often you cannot even watch your "recorded" programmes because
>>> they are not actually recorded in your box and need the
>>> broadband connection to see them.

>> You mean 'streamed' ?
>> The Sky Q box does cache them in IME

> Sky Q downloads all catchup programmes to disk and shows them in the recordings
> list, then plays them from disk so you don't miss part of the programme if the
> internet glitches.

This also applies to Sky+HD. Sky Cinema as well as catch-up.

> There is nothing in the recordings list that is not locally recorded, although
> there are often links from those recordings to other episodes that can be
> downloaded.

Sky+HD too.

> There is also what I consider to be a bug, where if you stop watching a
> programme early, ie during the end credits, and then delete it, Sky Q will
> offer to continue viewing and start downloading it. It also offers to
> 'continue' watching new episodes you've not started yet, which is confusing.

> The only stuff that does not download in full are commercial streaming services,
> Netflix, Prime, Disney, etc, which use apps and their own GUI separate to Sky Q.
>
>
> Angus
>
>
>

On 08/10/2021 14:16, Mark Carver wrote:

>> I almost never use the tuners on my TV almost always using the ones on
>> my STB plugged in via HDMI.
>>
>> I can't see why I wont be able to use this TV in that mode
>>
> You will, but the telly is aimed at people who don't what any clutter
> attached to their telly. If your broadband drops out you're stuffed
> without a back up DTT tuner.
>
> Reading up about the basic specs the TVs have, you'd be bonkers to sign
> up, then cancel the Sky subs, and use it as just a screen

Knowing the way the great British public think, or maybe don't think, a
combination of Sky bullshit and CBA will mean that many of these tellys
will not have a connection to an aerial. "It doesn't use an aerial;
that's the whole point of it."

In fact quite a few people these days move into a new house and assume
without really thinking about it that they won't need an aerial. Of
course sometimes they don't, but usually they do, and eventually they
get one installed.

It's quite a common belief these days that aerials are no longer needed.
People sit outside out village pub, where the Emley tower is visible,
and remark, "You'd think they'd knock that down now it doesn't do anything."

Bill

"Mark Carver" <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:isaulqFark0U1@mid.individual.net...
> On 08/10/2021 13:25, tim... wrote:
>>
>>
>> "Mark Carver" <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:isakopF907iU1@mid.individual.net...
>>> On 08/10/2021 11:18, Andy Burns wrote:
>>>> Tweed wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> For the first time in the UK, you can now get Sky TV over WiFi, with
>>>>> no
>>>>> satellite dish, no box and no fuss. The new streaming TV from Sky is
>>>>> available to buy in the UK from 18 October
>>>>
>>>> Amazed that it has a DVB-T tuner ...
>>>
>>> It'll be just that I suspect, so none of the nice friendly Freeview
>>> LCNs, and only 'Now&Next' programme data.
>>
>> I almost never use the tuners on my TV almost always using the ones on my
>> STB plugged in via HDMI.
>>
>> I can't see why I wont be able to use this TV in that mode
>>
> You will, but the telly is aimed at people who don't what any clutter
> attached to their telly.

and how many people want:

crippled service, no clutter

full service, some clutter

it's not like the clutter can't be tidied up with some judicious use of
cable ties.

> If your broadband drops out you're stuffed without a back up DTT tuner.
>
> Reading up about the basic specs the TVs have, you'd be bonkers to sign
> up, then cancel the Sky subs, and use it as just a screen

that wasn't the point I was making

"Mark Carver" <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:isb0a6Fb1tmU3@mid.individual.net...
> On 08/10/2021 14:30, MB wrote:
>> On 08/10/2021 14:16, Mark Carver wrote:
>>> You will, but the telly is aimed at people who don't what any clutter
>>> attached to their telly. If your broadband drops out you're stuffed
>>> without a back up DTT tuner.
>>
>> Often you cannot even watch your "recorded" programmes because they are
>> not actually recorded in your box and need the broadband connection to
>> see them.
>
> You mean 'streamed' ?
>
> The Sky Q box does cache them in IME

the Sky Q has a hard disk to record stuff on

this new product does not

"Roderick Stewart" <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote in message
news:rik0mg1bhl0fo75qgvpvprnaib7d7ds83a@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 8 Oct 2021 14:44:38 +0100, Mark Carver
> <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>>On 08/10/2021 14:30, MB wrote:
>>> On 08/10/2021 14:16, Mark Carver wrote:
>>>> You will, but the telly is aimed at people who don't what any clutter
>>>> attached to their telly. If your broadband drops out you're stuffed
>>>> without a back up DTT tuner.
>>>
>>> Often you cannot even watch your "recorded" programmes because they
>>> are not actually recorded in your box and need the broadband
>>> connection to see them.
>>
>>You mean 'streamed' ?
>>
>>The Sky Q box does cache them in IME
>
> To me this scheme just looks like what anyone with a suitable internet
> connection can already do with any TV and an Amazon stick, but I
> daresay lots will be conned into thinking it's something new.

the something new is a single entry point for finding any program across all
providers (that you are subscribed to)

whether that is worth the dis-benefits of this product is for consumers to
decide

"Andrew" <Andrew97d-junk@mybtinternet.com> wrote in message
news:sjph00$9fs$1@gioia.aioe.org...
> On 08/10/2021 13:25, tim... wrote:
>>
>>
>> "Mark Carver" <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:isakopF907iU1@mid.individual.net...
>>> On 08/10/2021 11:18, Andy Burns wrote:
>>>> Tweed wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> For the first time in the UK, you can now get Sky TV over WiFi, with
>>>>> no
>>>>> satellite dish, no box and no fuss. The new streaming TV from Sky is
>>>>> available to buy in the UK from 18 October
>>>>
>>>> Amazed that it has a DVB-T tuner ...
>>>
>>> It'll be just that I suspect, so none of the nice friendly Freeview
>>> LCNs, and only 'Now&Next' programme data.
>>
>> I almost never use the tuners on my TV almost always using the ones on my
>> STB plugged in via HDMI.
>>
>> I can't see why I wont be able to use this TV in that mode
>>
>> I accept that this give me the inconvenience of having 2 remotes (one to
>> change channel, one for the sound). Oh dear, what a faff that is, I
>> really must buy myself a crippled TV to avoid that in future
>>
>>
>>
>>
> Or just get a (better quality ?) 4K monitor and use that as the 'tv'?

I'm still going to have to change channels using the STB remote

Or did you mean view everything on this monitor via the internet?

My point here is that not every channel available on broadcast TV has an
online offering.

How long though will Freeview last?
ITV nearly had me gibbering last Sunday night when the final hour of
midsummer murders had commercials very 7 minutes.
Brian

--

This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"tim..." <timsnews99@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:sjrogp$lsv$1@dont-email.me...
>
>
> "Andrew" <Andrew97d-junk@mybtinternet.com> wrote in message
> news:sjph00$9fs$1@gioia.aioe.org...
>> On 08/10/2021 13:25, tim... wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> "Mark Carver" <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
>>> news:isakopF907iU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>> On 08/10/2021 11:18, Andy Burns wrote:
>>>>> Tweed wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> For the first time in the UK, you can now get Sky TV over WiFi, with
>>>>>> no
>>>>>> satellite dish, no box and no fuss. The new streaming TV from Sky is
>>>>>> available to buy in the UK from 18 October
>>>>>
>>>>> Amazed that it has a DVB-T tuner ...
>>>>
>>>> It'll be just that I suspect, so none of the nice friendly Freeview
>>>> LCNs, and only 'Now&Next' programme data.
>>>
>>> I almost never use the tuners on my TV almost always using the ones on
>>> my STB plugged in via HDMI.
>>>
>>> I can't see why I wont be able to use this TV in that mode
>>>
>>> I accept that this give me the inconvenience of having 2 remotes (one to
>>> change channel, one for the sound). Oh dear, what a faff that is, I
>>> really must buy myself a crippled TV to avoid that in future
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Or just get a (better quality ?) 4K monitor and use that as the 'tv'?
>
> I'm still going to have to change channels using the STB remote
>
> Or did you mean view everything on this monitor via the internet?
>
> My point here is that not every channel available on broadcast TV has an
> online offering.
>
>
>

On Sat, 9 Oct 2021 11:05:12 +0100, "Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)"
<briang1@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

> ITV nearly had me gibbering last Sunday night when the final hour of
>midsummer murders had commercials very 7 minutes.

It's normally six breaks in a two hour show, such as Midsomer, or
Vera, or Endeavour. After editing out the breaks to view the programme
without interruption, the actual running time is just under 90
minutes. Yes, there really is half an hour of advertising in a two
hour timeslot.

A programme in a one hour timeslot usually has three breaks and
condenses to 47 minutes, or occasionally as little as 40 minutes.

Thank goodness for PVRs with editing, or skip buttons.

Rod.

On 08/10/2021 12:15, Bob Latham wrote:

> I think that selling new TVs that have no DVB-T2 should have been
> illegal for some time. Yes, there may be some circumstances where T2
> isn't required but the extra cost must be minimal now if it exists at
> all.

How many people actually tune in to the signal via a STB rather than the
tuner in a TV? I've never bothered to tune the my TV since I purchased
it - I have retuned my STBs many times.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

In article <isdag6Fol35U1@mid.individual.net>,
alan_m <junk@admac.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
> On 08/10/2021 12:15, Bob Latham wrote:

> > I think that selling new TVs that have no DVB-T2 should have been
> > illegal for some time. Yes, there may be some circumstances where
> > T2 isn't required but the extra cost must be minimal now if it
> > exists at all.

> How many people actually tune in to the signal via a STB rather
> than the tuner in a TV? I've never bothered to tune the my TV
> since I purchased it - I have retuned my STBs many times.

Well in this regard I'm certainly not typical but I retune all of our
TVs and STB every few months and more if there's a specific reason. I
suppose I'm interested in muxes and transmitters and so it just
follows. I thought most STB could receive 2 muxes at once, what
happens if they're both recording and you wish to watch something on
a third mux?

Bob.

Nobody seems to have commented on the quality of the tv you get with
your sub.

As an owner of an LG 55" OLED I would not want to view anything on an
inferior device.

Any observations?

Tony

Can you elaborate on how it gets you the Sky channels their Glass system
offers?

I have a Nvidia Shield but nothing coming in from SKY (yet!)

Tony

On 08/10/2021 08:47, Jeff Gaines wrote:
> I have a Roku box and separate TV and amp, gives me the best of all
> worlds (and saves me £57 a month to Sky) with the ability to
> update/replace discrete units as needed.

On 08/10/2021 07:52, Tweed wrote:
> https://www.skygroup.sky/en-gb/article/introducing-sky-glass-the-new-streaming-tv-from-sky
>
> The first TV with Sky inside. No dish, no box, no fuss.

not sure i see the point.
it's a rebadged sub-standard lcd tv (with QLED buzzword attached to
confuse people), anyone who cares for quality goes for OLED.
on top of that it's can't even cope with 120fps 4k inputs, something
that's expected of any half decent tv these days.

they could simply make a sky app available to anyone who wants a dish
free service in the same way any number of tv services do and you'd then
get it on a quality set instead of some rebadged chinese no name brand.

On 08/10/2021 10:18, Mark Carver wrote:
> On 08/10/2021 09:52, Indy Jess John wrote:
>> On 08/10/2021 07:52, Tweed wrote:
>>> The first TV with Sky inside. No dish, no box, no fuss.
>>
>> And almost certainly no aerial input, so that having opted for it you
>> can't watch anything but Sky.
>
> It almost  certainly DOES have an aerial socket according to this, and a
> photo, but the whole scheme and business model is to lock you into the
> Skyuniverse, so for all of use in here not scared by wires, dishes, HDMI
> leads etc  it's not for us.
>
> https://www.cordbusters.co.uk/sky-glass-4k-streaming-tv-hands-on/

or anyone who wants a brand name tv with premium picture quality.

On 09/10/2021 14:09, Tony Gamble wrote:
> Nobody seems to have commented on the quality of the tv you get with
> your sub.
>
> As an owner of an LG 55" OLED I would not want to view anything on an
> inferior device.
>
> Any observations?
>
> Tony
>

agreed.
i'm not going back to lcd - especially a rebadged generic lcd in a
customer (very fat thick looking) case.

the dog from that film you saw <dsb@REMOVETHISbtinternet.com> wrote:
> On 08/10/2021 07:52, Tweed wrote:
>> https://www.skygroup.sky/en-gb/article/introducing-sky-glass-the-new-streaming-tv-from-sky
>>
>> The first TV with Sky inside. No dish, no box, no fuss.
>
>
>
>
> not sure i see the point.
> it's a rebadged sub-standard lcd tv (with QLED buzzword attached to
> confuse people), anyone who cares for quality goes for OLED.
> on top of that it's can't even cope with 120fps 4k inputs, something
> that's expected of any half decent tv these days.
>
>
> they could simply make a sky app available to anyone who wants a dish
> free service in the same way any number of tv services do and you'd then
> get it on a quality set instead of some rebadged chinese no name brand.
>
>
>

I think the idea is to make the costs/effort of quitting Sky too high. But
also to make that not too obvious until you’ve been hooked.

On Sat, 9 Oct 2021 14:11:34 +0100, Tony Gamble
<tonygamble@compuserve.com> wrote:

>I have a Nvidia Shield but nothing coming in from SKY (yet!)

Do you ever watch the Channel 4 catchup service All4? If so, I'd be
interested to know how. There doesn't seem to be an official app for
the Shield. It can be done by using a web browser but it's clumsy.

Rod.

C4 No.

I have tended to use my Humax for catch up browsing but decided
yesterday to use the Shield more.

I have always thought that satellite ought to produce a better image
than internet. Then I realised that Netflix and Amazon were offering 4k
online so came to the conclusion that internet, even for the BBC,
should/could be better than the picture from my dish.

I am a pedant for clear images. Hence my 55" Oled.

Tony

On 10/10/2021 09:21, Roderick Stewart wrote:
> On Sat, 9 Oct 2021 14:11:34 +0100, Tony Gamble
> <tonygamble@compuserve.com> wrote:
>
>> I have a Nvidia Shield but nothing coming in from SKY (yet!)
>
> Do you ever watch the Channel 4 catchup service All4? If so, I'd be
> interested to know how. There doesn't seem to be an official app for
> the Shield. It can be done by using a web browser but it's clumsy.
>
> Rod.
>

On Sat, 9 Oct 2021 11:50:45 +0100, alan_m <junk@admac.myzen.co.uk>
wrote:

>How many people actually tune in to the signal via a STB rather than the
>tuner in a TV? I've never bothered to tune the my TV since I purchased
>it - I have retuned my STBs many times.

I don't even have an aerial plugged into mine. The only signal
connection is a single HDMI cable from a switch box. The TV is only
used as a video display and nothing else, not even for sound as I use
a hi-fi system for that.

The Freeview STB has a hard drive to record programmes. It's possible
to watch programmes "live" (i.e. while they are being broadcast) but I
can't remember the last time I did this. Everything I watch or listen
to, from broadcast, streaming service, or disk, is under my control.

Rod.

On Sat, 9 Oct 2021 16:00:09 +0100, the dog from that film you saw
<dsb@REMOVETHISbtinternet.com> wrote:

>On 08/10/2021 07:52, Tweed wrote:
>> https://www.skygroup.sky/en-gb/article/introducing-sky-glass-the-new-streaming-tv-from-sky
>>
>> The first TV with Sky inside. No dish, no box, no fuss.
>
>
>
>
>not sure i see the point.
>it's a rebadged sub-standard lcd tv (with QLED buzzword attached to
>confuse people), anyone who cares for quality goes for OLED.
>on top of that it's can't even cope with 120fps 4k inputs, something
>that's expected of any half decent tv these days.
>
>
>they could simply make a sky app available to anyone who wants a dish
>free service in the same way any number of tv services do and you'd then
>get it on a quality set instead of some rebadged chinese no name brand.
>

It's everything in one box, for people who want the neatness and
convenience of everything in one box (and don't mind paying).

The arguments for and against this are the same ones as for all-in-one
desktop computers versus separate units, or perhaps the arguments that
were being aired half a century ago about hi-fi separates versus
combined "music centres". Perhaps the old argument about potentially
losing everything if only one part of the system becomes faulty could
be said to be less of a concern now that electronics is generally more
reliable, but other than that, the pros and cons seem much the same.

Rod.