On Tue, 28 Sep 2021 20:04:46 +0100, YTC#1
<bdporter@ytc1-removespam.co.uk> wrote:

>On 28/09/2021 18:58, sweller wrote:
>> AJH wrote:
>>
>>> I wouldn't describe these panic buyershere as pikeys, they're mostly
>>> very wealthy professional sector, many previously commuted to London
>>> daily. They are nearly all precious and "entitled" and true blue
>>
>> Most I saw in the queues seemed to be various work vans and various
>> normal cars. Social class or demographic doesn't seem to have much to
>> do with it.
>>
>> Fear of not having fuel is a powerful motivator and if everyone else is
>> panic buying it's not irrational behaviour to also fill up.
>>
>
>I tend to disagree, it is irrational behaviour. The rational thing to do
>is stand back and wait for the panic to finish.

I dunno. If your business absolutely relies on getting fuel to get to
clients, e.g. tradesmen, then you're in serious trouble.

--

-Pip

On 28/09/2021 21:29, Pipl wrote:
> On Tue, 28 Sep 2021 20:04:46 +0100, YTC#1
> <bdporter@ytc1-removespam.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 28/09/2021 18:58, sweller wrote:
>>> AJH wrote:
>>>
>>>> I wouldn't describe these panic buyershere as pikeys, they're mostly
>>>> very wealthy professional sector, many previously commuted to London
>>>> daily. They are nearly all precious and "entitled" and true blue
>>>
>>> Most I saw in the queues seemed to be various work vans and various
>>> normal cars. Social class or demographic doesn't seem to have much to
>>> do with it.
>>>
>>> Fear of not having fuel is a powerful motivator and if everyone else is
>>> panic buying it's not irrational behaviour to also fill up.
>>>
>>
>> I tend to disagree, it is irrational behaviour. The rational thing to do
>> is stand back and wait for the panic to finish.
>
> I dunno. If your business absolutely relies on getting fuel to get to
> clients, e.g. tradesmen, then you're in serious trouble.
>

The irrational ones are like the woman in front of me today that
struggled to get £10.02 into her tank. These are the ones who should
stand back, and let those that need it have it.

--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly"
https://the-ytc1-shed.blogspot.com/ Deprected(http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/)
There *is* an alternative! https://www.libreoffice.org/

On 28/09/2021 10:22, Paul Carmichael wrote:
> On the telly I see massive queues at filling stations with people
> fighting on the forecourts. And apparently, every supermarket shelf in
> the country is empty. But Boris has relented and said Johnny Furriner can
> get back to work there after all. I think some prices may rise if all
> this is true. Is it?
>
> Some Brits that just arrived told me it's all bollocks and what we're
> seeing is just in one tiny corner of the home counties.

In the central Midlands there are issues. SWMBO would have needed petrol
last Saturday (down to 1/8 tank) and originally planned to fill up in
the day, but seeing the issues I took her car down to the 24 hour Asda
at a bit after midnight. A tanker left just as I was arriving, and there
were 20 cars queueing for the four working pumps (out of 12). I've got
half a tank in the Bonnie, I think I've got half a tank in the estate,
and I'm not commuting, so we should be OK for a while.

On 28/09/2021 22:21 crn@nospam.com penned these words:
> ogden <eldaifo@gmail.com> wrote:
>> sweller wrote:
>>> Paul Carmichael wrote:
>>>
>>
>> I'll be keen to see whether I can get diesel for the van on Saturday. I've always got unleaded in the garage, as I need it for the hillclimb bikes, but I've only got a few litres of diesel in a can.
>
> Go to a fuel distribution depot, buy a 220 litre drum and a drum pump.
> Engine lift and a rope in a drum knot to get it off the van into your garage.
> imples.
>
Home storage is it 20 or 40 litres, never can recall but it is certainly less
that 220.

--
Ian

"Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of
the last priest"

YTC#1 wrote:
> On 28/09/2021 21:29, Pipl wrote:
>> On Tue, 28 Sep 2021 20:04:46 +0100, YTC#1
>> <bdporter@ytc1-removespam.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> On 28/09/2021 18:58, sweller wrote:
>>>> AJH wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I wouldn't describe these panic buyershere as pikeys, they're mostly
>>>>> very wealthy professional sector, many previously commuted to London
>>>>> daily. They are nearly all precious and "entitled" and true blue
>>>> Most I saw in the queues seemed to be various work vans and various
>>>> normal cars. Social class or demographic doesn't seem to have much to
>>>> do with it.
>>>>
>>>> Fear of not having fuel is a powerful motivator and if everyone else is
>>>> panic buying it's not irrational behaviour to also fill up.
>>>>
>>> I tend to disagree, it is irrational behaviour. The rational thing to do
>>> is stand back and wait for the panic to finish.
>> I dunno. If your business absolutely relies on getting fuel to get to
>> clients, e.g. tradesmen, then you're in serious trouble.
>>
>
> The irrational ones are like the woman in front of me today that
> struggled to get £10.02 into her tank. These are the ones who should
> stand back, and let those that need it have it.

Perhaps she was about to embark on a journey that was close to her
maximum range and didn't want to risk not being able to find fuel later ?

On 29/09/2021 00:12, Boots wrote:
> On 28/09/2021 22:21 crn@nospam.com penned these words:
>> ogden <eldaifo@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> sweller wrote:
>>>> Paul Carmichael wrote:
>>>>
>>>
>>> I'll be keen to see whether I can get diesel for the van on Saturday. I've always got unleaded in the garage, as I need it for the hillclimb bikes, but I've only got a few litres of diesel in a can.
>>
>> Go to a fuel distribution depot, buy a 220 litre drum and a drum pump.
>> Engine lift and a rope in a drum knot to get it off the van into your garage.
>> imples.
>>
> Home storage is it 20 or 40 litres, never can recall but it is certainly less
> that 220.
>

30 litres

--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly"
https://the-ytc1-shed.blogspot.com/ Deprected(http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/)
There *is* an alternative! https://www.libreoffice.org/

On 29/09/2021 00:12, Boots wrote:
> Home storage is it 20 or 40 litres, never can recall but it is certainly less
> that 220

30 litres for petrol unless it is in a vehicle tank, diesel is much more
even if it is DERV, gasoil is still used in some pressure jet heating
systems.

Commercial premises have to notify the petrol enforcement agency to
store up to 275l of petrol, after that it gets more onerous.

On Tuesday, September 28, 2021 at 11:15:44 AM UTC+1, Champ wrote:
> On 28 Sep 2021 09:22:44 GMT, Paul Carmichael <wibble...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >On the telly I see massive queues at filling stations with people
> >fighting on the forecourts. And apparently, every supermarket shelf in
> >the country is empty. But Boris has relented and said Johnny Furriner can
> >get back to work there after all. I think some prices may rise if all
> >this is true. Is it?
>
> >Some Brits that just arrived told me it's all bollocks and what we're
> >seeing is just in one tiny corner of the home counties.
> I don't believe Oxfordshire counts as a 'home county' (but maybe it
> does), but reports from one of V's kids in a small market town is that
> the 3 local petrol stations are shut (with no fuel), as is the petrol
> station at the local Sainsburys.
>
> I don't know about supermarket shelves - all I've seen is photos on
> twitter.
>
> Here on God's Own Island everything is fine. I imagine we'd switch to
> shipping in from Eire or NI [1] if things started to get squeaky
>
> [1] which, apparently, is unaffected - it's still in the Single Market

As the bouncy silver fun bus was nudging zero yesterday, I popped down to our local Tesco megastructure in sleepy Didders.
Little queue, no derv, but filled up with a full tank of their finest 99 unleaded.
Then popped down to the London Shenley Club for the National Burger Awards, which was as always a fun day out !
I got lucky coming back up a very dark and wet M40 around 9ish.
Had just overtaken a dawdling fiesta in the training lane when I noticed headlights appear very quickly on my arse, a bit too quickly for the current conditions I thought.
Got right up my arse as I was about to pull back into the left hand lane, so I gave them the finger as they came past.
Apparently this really pisses Traffic Police off, and is punishable by a £90 fine.
Thankfully it was pissing it down, and his pen wouldn't work, so let off with a stern talking to.
If I'd have had a dash cam I might have argued the middle lane hogging claim, as it's something I abhor and believe anyone that does it should be chemically castrated, but as I was being let off without a charge for giving them the bird I thought best chalk this one up and move on.

On Tuesday, September 28, 2021 at 12:05:52 PM UTC+1, AJH wrote:
> On 28/09/2021 11:59, YTC#1 wrote:
> > Just go out and get it when everyone else has gone to bed.
> Wouldn't work here as the queues form after a delivery, that lasts three
> hours and then they shut again. I imagine motorway services are the best
> bet.

Coming up the M40 last night every single Matrix was showing a message "No fuel at xxx Services", that was all of them between M25 and A34 (which is about 2 I think).

Dave Brown wrote:

> Thankfully it was pissing it down, and his pen wouldn't work, so let
> off with a stern talking to. If I'd have had a dash cam I might have
> argued the middle lane hogging claim, as it's something I abhor and
> believe anyone that does it should be chemically castrated, but as I
> was being let off without a charge for giving them the bird I thought
> best chalk this one up and move on.

Couldn't agree more. Result.

On 28 Sep 2021 17:58:39 GMT, "sweller" <sweller@mztech.fsnet.co.uk>
wrote:

>Fear of not having fuel is a powerful motivator and if everyone else is
>panic buying it's not irrational behaviour to also fill up.

Exactly. Classic case if people's self-interest and the common
interest being at odds
--
Champ
neal at champ dot org dot uk

I don't know, but I been told
You never slow down, you never grow old

On 29/09/2021 10:49, Champ wrote:
> On 28 Sep 2021 17:58:39 GMT, "sweller" <sweller@mztech.fsnet.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> Fear of not having fuel is a powerful motivator and if everyone else is
>> panic buying it's not irrational behaviour to also fill up.
>
> Exactly. Classic case if people's self-interest and the common
> interest being at odds
>

So, what you are saying is the irrational is the new normal?

--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly"
https://the-ytc1-shed.blogspot.com/ Deprected(http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/)
There *is* an alternative! https://www.libreoffice.org/

On Wed, 29 Sep 2021 11:59:57 +0100, YTC#1
<bdporter@ytc1-removespam.co.uk> wrote:

>On 29/09/2021 10:49, Champ wrote:
>> On 28 Sep 2021 17:58:39 GMT, "sweller" <sweller@mztech.fsnet.co.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Fear of not having fuel is a powerful motivator and if everyone else is
>>> panic buying it's not irrational behaviour to also fill up.
>>
>> Exactly. Classic case if people's self-interest and the common
>> interest being at odds
>>
>
>So, what you are saying is the irrational is the new normal?

Irrational has _always_ been the norm.

Anyone else remember the petrol shortages of the 1970s? Same shit,
different reasons, exactly the same behaviour.

--
Ace
http://www.chaletbeauroc.com/

On 29/09/2021 13:01, Ace wrote:
> On Wed, 29 Sep 2021 11:59:57 +0100, YTC#1
> <bdporter@ytc1-removespam.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 29/09/2021 10:49, Champ wrote:
>>> On 28 Sep 2021 17:58:39 GMT, "sweller" <sweller@mztech.fsnet.co.uk>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Fear of not having fuel is a powerful motivator and if everyone else is
>>>> panic buying it's not irrational behaviour to also fill up.
>>>
>>> Exactly. Classic case if people's self-interest and the common
>>> interest being at odds
>>>
>>
>> So, what you are saying is the irrational is the new normal?
>
> Irrational has _always_ been the norm.
>
> Anyone else remember the petrol shortages of the 1970s? Same shit,
> different reasons, exactly the same behaviour.
>

Yep, ration books and everything. We lived next to a petrol station
then. Never saw queues like we can create now though.

--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly"
https://the-ytc1-shed.blogspot.com/ Deprected(http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/)
There *is* an alternative! https://www.libreoffice.org/

On 29/09/2021 13:40, YTC#1 wrote:
> On 29/09/2021 13:01, Ace wrote:
>>
>> Anyone else remember the petrol shortages of the 1970s? Same shit,
>> different reasons, exactly the same behaviour.
>
> Yep, ration books and everything. We lived next to a petrol station
> then. Never saw queues like we can create now though.

There's more people now, and a *much* higher proportion of them own cars.

--
Eddie eddie@deguello.org

On Wed, 29 Sep 2021 11:59:57 +0100, YTC#1
<bdporter@ytc1-removespam.co.uk> wrote:

>On 29/09/2021 10:49, Champ wrote:
>> On 28 Sep 2021 17:58:39 GMT, "sweller" <sweller@mztech.fsnet.co.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Fear of not having fuel is a powerful motivator and if everyone else is
>>> panic buying it's not irrational behaviour to also fill up.
>>
>> Exactly. Classic case if people's self-interest and the common
>> interest being at odds

>So, what you are saying is the irrational is the new normal?

Pretty sure I'm not saying anything like that

People act in their own *rationale* self-interest. Sometimes, that
conflicts with the common interest

https://earth.org/what-is-tragedy-of-the-commons/
--
Champ
neal at champ dot org dot uk

I don't know, but I been told
You never slow down, you never grow old

On 29/09/2021 14:55, Eddie wrote:
> On 29/09/2021 13:40, YTC#1 wrote:
>> On 29/09/2021 13:01, Ace wrote:
>>>
>>> Anyone else remember the petrol shortages of the 1970s? Same shit,
>>> different reasons, exactly the same behaviour.
>>
>> Yep, ration books and everything. We lived next to a petrol station
>> then. Never saw queues like we can create now though.
>
> There's more people now, and a *much* higher proportion of them own cars.
>

I *knew* that.

There are also less petrol stations :-)

I've come to the conclusion that I must be the irrational one, as I am
not panicing.

--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly"
https://the-ytc1-shed.blogspot.com/ Deprected(http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/)
There *is* an alternative! https://www.libreoffice.org/

On 29/09/2021 15:04, Champ wrote:
> On Wed, 29 Sep 2021 11:59:57 +0100, YTC#1
> <bdporter@ytc1-removespam.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 29/09/2021 10:49, Champ wrote:
>>> On 28 Sep 2021 17:58:39 GMT, "sweller" <sweller@mztech.fsnet.co.uk>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Fear of not having fuel is a powerful motivator and if everyone else is
>>>> panic buying it's not irrational behaviour to also fill up.
>>>
>>> Exactly. Classic case if people's self-interest and the common
>>> interest being at odds
>
>> So, what you are saying is the irrational is the new normal?
>
> Pretty sure I'm not saying anything like that
>
> People act in their own *rationale* self-interest. Sometimes, that
> conflicts with the common interest
>
> https://earth.org/what-is-tragedy-of-the-commons/
>

Yeah, I remember the early days of 2020, when we finally went shopping
(after finishing decorating Sarah's house) and found the empty shelves.

--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly"
https://the-ytc1-shed.blogspot.com/ Deprected(http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/)
There *is* an alternative! https://www.libreoffice.org/

On 29/09/2021 17:17, YTC#1 wrote:
> On 29/09/2021 14:55, Eddie wrote:
>> On 29/09/2021 13:40, YTC#1 wrote:
>>>
>>> Yep, ration books and everything. We lived next to a petrol station
>>> then. Never saw queues like we can create now though.
>>
>> There's more people now, and a *much* higher proportion of them own cars.
>
> I *knew* that.
>
> There are also less petrol stations :-)

Fewer.

But they should be more efficient. Pay at pump, card transactions rather
than cash, etc.

> I've come to the conclusion that I must be the irrational one, as I am
> not panicing.

You're just being logical, because you have nothing to panic about. If
you needed to get somewhere for work, for example, you might be in that
queue yourself.

--
Eddie eddie@deguello.org

On 29/09/2021 18:38, Eddie wrote:
> On 29/09/2021 17:17, YTC#1 wrote:
>> On 29/09/2021 14:55, Eddie wrote:
>>> On 29/09/2021 13:40, YTC#1 wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Yep, ration books and everything. We lived next to a petrol station
>>>> then. Never saw queues like we can create now though.
>>>
>>> There's more people now, and a *much* higher proportion of them own
>>> cars.
>>
>> I *knew* that.
>>
>> There are also less petrol stations :-)
>
> Fewer.
>

Mea culpa

> But they should be more efficient. Pay at pump, card transactions rather
> than cash, etc.

Still not that many pay at pump IMO. Esso, Shell, BP slow on the uptake.
It is the supermarkets that seem to lead the way on it.

>
>> I've come to the conclusion that I must be the irrational one, as I am
>> not panicing.
>
> You're just being logical, because you have nothing to panic about. If
> you needed to get somewhere for work, for example, you might be in that
> queue yourself.

Granted, but as so many seem to be filling when they don't need it,
those that do can't[1]. Hence the actual problem.

I've been in places (Argentina, Bolivia) with proper fuel issues, on a
motorbike, but never paniced [sp?]. I planed around it, fled the
country, got kicked out of country fleeing to and back to shortage.

In Bolivia at times you see a petrol station, breath a sigh of relief,
pull in and then be told to leave because you are on foreign plates.

A plastic can is your friend.

[1] Note that Jean is currently commuting to Preston to do community
visits in her current job. She has not had to queue yet.

>

--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly"
https://the-ytc1-shed.blogspot.com/ Deprected(http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/)
There *is* an alternative! https://www.libreoffice.org/

Stephen Packer wrote:
> I couldn't buy Brie, Croissants or Pectin today. Fish counter a little bare.
> The wine racks looked a little empty too, ditto with tonic water.

I could *only* buy Brie, croissants and quails' eggs today, because the only supermarket I could get anywhere near was a Waitrose, it being the only one locally that doesn't have a petrol station. I've seen main roads in Surbiton and Epsom today completely blocked by queues for petrol.

I'm starting to feel wistful for the days when I could get into a supermarket only to find the shelves empty.

Hopefully things will be getting a bit more sensible by Saturday, because I'll need to score 400 miles' worth of diesel and I've only got 10 litres in the garage.

In article <b01f8348-6cff-46ff-bf75-
af5d27343ce7n@googlegroups.com>, ogden says...
>
> Stephen Packer wrote:
> > I couldn't buy Brie, Croissants or Pectin today. Fish counter a little bare.
> > The wine racks looked a little empty too, ditto with tonic water.
>
> I could *only* buy Brie, croissants and quails' eggs today, because the only supermarket I could get anywhere near was a Waitrose, it being the only one locally that doesn't have a petrol station. I've seen main roads in Surbiton and Epsom today completely blocked by queues for petrol.
>
> I'm starting to feel wistful for the days when I could get into a supermarket only to find the shelves empty.
>
> Hopefully things will be getting a bit more sensible by Saturday, because I'll need to score 400 miles' worth of diesel and I've only got 10 litres in the garage.

If you're proper stuck, pop over here and siphon some from
the full tank of my broken down motor.

petrolcan <petrolcan@gmail.com> wrote:
> In article <b01f8348-6cff-46ff-bf75-
> af5d27343ce7n@googlegroups.com>, ogden says...

>> Hopefully things will be getting a bit more sensible by Saturday,
>> because I'll need to score 400 miles' worth of diesel and I've only
>> got 10 litres in the garage.
>
> If you're proper stuck, pop over here and siphon some from
> the full tank of my broken down motor.

It's getting all a bit Mad Max from where I'm sitting.

--
FJR1300A, GL1000, KLR650A6F, EX250J9A, DR200SE, Vespa Ciao

On 30/09/2021 00:53, Mark Olson wrote:
> petrolcan <petrolcan@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> If you're proper stuck, pop over here and siphon some from
>> the full tank of my broken down motor.
>
> It's getting all a bit Mad Max from where I'm sitting.

Just like that, but colder and wetter. Grumpy Graham, maybe.

--
Eddie eddie@deguello.org

On Wed, 29 Sep 2021 23:53:09 -0000 (UTC), Mark Olson
<olsonm@tiny.invalid> wrote:

>>> Hopefully things will be getting a bit more sensible by Saturday,
>>> because I'll need to score 400 miles' worth of diesel and I've only
>>> got 10 litres in the garage.
>> If you're proper stuck, pop over here and siphon some from
>> the full tank of my broken down motor.

>It's getting all a bit Mad Max from where I'm sitting.

https://twitter.com/hazard880/status/1442206591202123780
--
Champ
neal at champ dot org dot uk

I don't know, but I been told
You never slow down, you never grow old