On Tue, 03 May 2022 02:55:33 +1000, ARW <adamwadsworth@blueyonder.co.uk>
wrote:

> On 02/05/2022 10:25, Brian wrote:
> Scargill did a good job of killing an industry.
>
> An industry that was killing hundreds of men a year.

Poland, USA and Australia doesnt and they
all still have lots of underground coal mining.

On 01/05/2022 13:47, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> In article <t4ktn9$s5q$1@dont-email.me>,
> ARW <adamwadsworth@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>> I wonder how my local brothel gets away with only employing women?
>
> Because it's not Soho?
>
:-)

On Mon, 02 May 2022 12:34:42 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
<dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:

>In article <aaet6h1pau02dep6bbnjk2rn83lnn2r7lh@4ax.com>,
> Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
>> On Sun, 01 May 2022 13:51:58 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
>> <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> >In article <muus6h1lv6a9e3ke61vhjm8kn650e7npnj@4ax.com>,
>> > Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
>> >> On Sat, 30 Apr 2022 13:22:53 +0100, "Jim Stewart ..."
>> >> <kinvig.netta@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> >On 30/04/2022 08:31, ARW wrote:
>> >> >> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-london-61249974
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Useless - not one of them said "That's going to cost you":-)
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >all dykes except the good looking one thus proving dykws are just ugly
>> >> >wumman who can't get a man .....
>> >
>> >> It's a pretty good rule of thumb that, Jim.
>> >
>> >Why doesn't that comment from you two surprise me?
>
>> I wasn't really joking though, Dave. I used to live in the, er, let's
>> just call it "bohemian" area of Berlin and there were a *lot* of gays
>> and lesbos around. LOADS. After a while you begin to notice patterns.
>> One of those patterns was that, far from the typical man's fantasy
>> idea of what a lesbian looks like, they're actually very masculine
>> (dare I say "butch"?) and very unattractive (to me anyway). It was as
>> if they were men born in the wrong bodies and had adapted their 'look'
>> to appear less feminine.
>
>You must be remarkably unobservant if you think all lesbians are of the
>'butch' variety. Anymore than all gay men are screaming queens. But that
>doesn't surprise me, since you only ever look for 'facts' to support your
>views.

Nope. I'm relentlessly self-questioning about such things, Dave;
always have been.

>
>> >Being logical, must mean gay blokes are 'ugly' so can't get a woman?
>
>> I was quite generously disposed to gays until I encountered them
>> unvarnished. They're actually not very pleasant people - not at all
>> like Mr. Humphries in Are You Being Served. Bitchy and spiteful I
>> would describe them - not all of 'em but an awful lot.
>
>I'd guess just a natural reaction to you?
>
>But no surprise you think Mr Humphries 'real' either.

Mr. Humphries was a highly likeable stereotype, though. The kind I'd
have stuck up for if he were being picked on in a train compartment
for example. Sadly there aren't many gays of that disposition
nowadays. They're far more 'in your face' now and can stick up for
themselves I'd imagine (and AFAIC they'll have to).

On 02/05/2022 12:28, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> Interesting comparison. The blacks more likely to be in prison as a
> percentage of the population easy to verify. Just why, more difficult to
> be certain. That lesbians only lesbians because they can't find a decent
> man totally unprovable. Just a fairly typical comment from a man rather
> unsure of their own sexuality.

This last is a much-quoted fallacy. There's no connection between a
person's sureness about their sexuality and their tendency to be
critical of homosexuality. I'd imagine that such a tendency is more like
to correlate with religious or moral views.

> Many years ago, I worked on a TV prog set in the Gateways club. At the
> time a famous lesbian club, maybe most famous in the word. There were
> obvious dykes, very 'femme' and just plain normal looking women in pretty
> equal parts. And that was at a club. And impossible to say what percentage
> of gay women ever go to such a place.

I know some lesbians who are very attractive. Most however are what I'd
call 'passable', reasonable looking to a blind man on a galloping horse.

Bill

On 02/05/2022 10:58, ARW wrote:

> Of course they now teach primary school children all about homosexuality
> LGBT etc and teach them that is is normal. Remember that whats app video
> I sent you?
>

Yes but what they teach in school and what kids actually believe are two
different things. Remember Assembly?

Bill

On 02/05/2022 17:03, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
>> I've known lots of gay men who've been nice but only two that have been
>> nasty. However the nastiness of the two easily outweighed the niceness
>> of all the others! Mind you, they were a nasty pair, they really were.
>> Would have spoilt another couple.
> Interesting. If you met a straight couple who were nasty, would you also
> transfer that onto all other straight couples?

Sorry, I don't follow. Are you trying to imply some sort of
irrationality on my part from my whimsical remark?
>
>> I think in general that growing up and finding that you're in a
>> minority, and probably a persecuted minority at that, helps a person
>> develop compassion. In most cases.
> Really? No racial minorities born in this country are racists either?
>
Again, you take my suggestion that a factor can influence a person's
development to mean that it can dictate it.
I said, "HELPS a person
>> develop compassion. IN MOST CASES."

Your logic is as usual flawed.

Bill

On 01/05/2022 22:20, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> That is one particular archetype. Another is just regular people. Who
> take it up the chuff.
> Its the difference between the urban 'out' gay scene and people who are
> just 'gay'

Yes. There's a tendency these days to think that a person's sexuality is
the be all and end all. In fact most of the gay people I know lead very
ordinary lives and their sexuality is irrelevant most of the time.

Bill

On 2 May 2022 at 17:55:33 BST, "ARW" <adamwadsworth@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

> On 02/05/2022 10:25, Brian wrote:
> Scargill did a good job of killing an industry.
>
> An industry that was killing hundreds of men a year.

I remember hearing Scargill speak at a public meeting in St Austell, Cornwall
debating the pros and cons of the Nuclear Industry. He was up against our
local Tory M.P who seemed to have a very slight speech defect or hesitancy.
Scargill was a brilliant public speaker, the best I've ever heard.
And surely the Coal Industry along with ship building was killed off by a Tory
Government under the late un-lamented Margaret Thatcher.

Peter
--
The email shown is false. If you need to contact me then try peterATpfjamesDOTcoDOTuk

Addresses are given to us to conceal our whereabouts.
Saki (H.H.Munro) 1870 - 1916

On 03 May 2022 at 07:50:08 BST, Peter James <pfjames300@gmail.com> wrote:

> And surely the Coal Industry along with ship building was killed off by a Tory
> Government under the late un-lamented Margaret Thatcher.

Labour closed more pits than the Tories did.

--
"Once you adopt the unix paradigm, the variants cease to be a problem - you bitch, of course, but that's because bitching is fun, unlike M$ OS's, where bitching is required to keep your head from exploding." - S Stremler in afc

On Tue, 03 May 2022 16:50:08 +1000, Peter James <pfjames300@gmail.com>
wrote:

> On 2 May 2022 at 17:55:33 BST, "ARW" <adamwadsworth@blueyonder.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> On 02/05/2022 10:25, Brian wrote:
>> Scargill did a good job of killing an industry.
>>
>> An industry that was killing hundreds of men a year.
>
> I remember hearing Scargill speak at a public meeting in St Austell,
> Cornwall
> debating the pros and cons of the Nuclear Industry. He was up against our
> local Tory M.P who seemed to have a very slight speech defect or
> hesitancy.
> Scargill was a brilliant public speaker, the best I've ever heard.

> And surely the Coal Industry along with ship building was killed off by
> a Tory
> Government under the late un-lamented Margaret Thatcher.

No, Labour before her actually closed more coal mines.

And no politician killed off ship building, that was killed off
by the stupid unions who made it completely uncompetitive
with Japan and South Korea.

On 03/05/2022 08:16, Tim Streater wrote:
> On 03 May 2022 at 07:50:08 BST, Peter James <pfjames300@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> And surely the Coal Industry along with ship building was killed off by a Tory
>> Government under the late un-lamented Margaret Thatcher.
>
> Labour closed more pits than the Tories did.
>

And Ed Milipedes 2008 Climate change act would have finished off
those that might have snuffled on (with subsidies) even if Mrs T
hadn't put them out of their misery.

The Japanese and South Koreans killed off the UK mass-market
ship building industry, not Mrs T. Just look at the utter
debacle of the Ferguson Yard in Glasgow where those two
Cal Mac ferries, being built, are years behind schedule and
about 3 times over budget.

On Monday, 2 May 2022 at 12:39:15 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> In article <aaet6h1pau02dep6b...@4ax.com>,
> Cursitor Doom <c...@notformail.com> wrote:
> > On Sun, 01 May 2022 13:51:58 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
> > <da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > >In article <muus6h1lv6a9e3ke6...@4ax.com>,
> > > Cursitor Doom <c...@notformail.com> wrote:
> > >> On Sat, 30 Apr 2022 13:22:53 +0100, "Jim Stewart ..."
> > >> <kinvig...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >> >On 30/04/2022 08:31, ARW wrote:
> > >> >> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-london-61249974
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Useless - not one of them said "That's going to cost you":-)
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >all dykes except the good looking one thus proving dykws are just ugly
> > >> >wumman who can't get a man .....
> > >
> > >> It's a pretty good rule of thumb that, Jim.
> > >
> > >Why doesn't that comment from you two surprise me?
>
> > I wasn't really joking though, Dave. I used to live in the, er, let's
> > just call it "bohemian" area of Berlin and there were a *lot* of gays
> > and lesbos around. LOADS. After a while you begin to notice patterns.
> > One of those patterns was that, far from the typical man's fantasy
> > idea of what a lesbian looks like, they're actually very masculine
> > (dare I say "butch"?) and very unattractive (to me anyway). It was as
> > if they were men born in the wrong bodies and had adapted their 'look'
> > to appear less feminine.
> You must be remarkably unobservant if you think all lesbians are of the
> 'butch' variety. Anymore than all gay men are screaming queens. But that
> doesn't surprise me, since you only ever look for 'facts' to support your
> views.

yes I was thinking along those line, it's not always easy to tell gay from straight
for any gender unless they are in a place they feel comfortable in.
Then there's those that want to make a statement of their sexuality.

> > >Being logical, must mean gay blokes are 'ugly' so can't get a woman?
>
> > I was quite generously disposed to gays until I encountered them
> > unvarnished. They're actually not very pleasant people - not at all
> > like Mr. Humphries in Are You Being Served. Bitchy and spiteful I
> > would describe them - not all of 'em but an awful lot.
> I'd guess just a natural reaction to you?

An understandable reaction :-)

>
> But no surprise you think Mr Humphries 'real' either.

Then there's the first famous person who died from AIDs Rock Hudson,
sometimes I'm suprised to find a particual person is Gay. A month or so back
I found out that Richard Wilson who played Victor Meldrew is gay.
What does suprise me is how many footballers and rugby players I think are possibley gay
but won't come because it's not really accetable in their macho world.
Then there was my girlfiends friend in sweden who was the typical swedish blonde blue eyed,
I'd expect my girlfriend to be a bit jealous as her friend was chating to me, but was suprised
when she told me that she was a lesbian and a prostitute that only slept with men because it
didn't mean anything to her. I supose that makes sense when you think about it.
I know of a girl who has had a transgender op so is male and 'he' works as a stripper in a male gay strip club

I think there's so many differing views and points in sexuality but most people
only ever see the most basic sides

>
> --
> *People want trepanners like they want a hole in the head*
> Dave Plowman da...@davenoise.co.uk London SW
> To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article <jdbg39F3do1U1@mid.individual.net>,
williamwright <wrightsaerials@f2s.com> wrote:
> > Many years ago, I worked on a TV prog set in the Gateways club. At the
> > time a famous lesbian club, maybe most famous in the word. There were
> > obvious dykes, very 'femme' and just plain normal looking women in
> > pretty equal parts. And that was at a club. And impossible to say what
> > percentage of gay women ever go to such a place.

> I know some lesbians who are very attractive. Most however are what I'd
> call 'passable', reasonable looking to a blind man on a galloping horse.

And you've not considered that could be because you only recognise the
'obvious' ones?

--
*Lawyers believe a man is innocent until proven broke.

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article <jdbgfcF3fg4U1@mid.individual.net>,
williamwright <wrightsaerials@f2s.com> wrote:
> On 02/05/2022 17:03, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> >> I've known lots of gay men who've been nice but only two that have been
> >> nasty. However the nastiness of the two easily outweighed the niceness
> >> of all the others! Mind you, they were a nasty pair, they really were.
> >> Would have spoilt another couple.
> > Interesting. If you met a straight couple who were nasty, would you also
> > transfer that onto all other straight couples?

> Sorry, I don't follow. Are you trying to imply some sort of
> irrationality on my part from my whimsical remark?

Yes. You stated the 'nastiness' of that couple outweighed the 'niceness'
of the others. Which means you must decide about a group of people as a
whole. Not as individuals.
> >
> >> I think in general that growing up and finding that you're in a
> >> minority, and probably a persecuted minority at that, helps a person
> >> develop compassion. In most cases.
> > Really? No racial minorities born in this country are racists either?
> >
> Again, you take my suggestion that a factor can influence a person's
> development to mean that it can dictate it.
> I said, "HELPS a person
> >> develop compassion. IN MOST CASES."

> Your logic is as usual flawed.

Scattering around 'probably' and 'most' in such a way shows logic hasn't
entered into it.

--
*Money isn't everything, but it sure keeps the kids in touch.

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article <jdc1l0F6gekU1@mid.individual.net>,
Peter James <pfjames300@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 2 May 2022 at 17:55:33 BST, "ARW" <adamwadsworth@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

> > On 02/05/2022 10:25, Brian wrote:
> > Scargill did a good job of killing an industry.
> >
> > An industry that was killing hundreds of men a year.

> I remember hearing Scargill speak at a public meeting in St Austell, Cornwall
> debating the pros and cons of the Nuclear Industry. He was up against our
> local Tory M.P who seemed to have a very slight speech defect or hesitancy.
> Scargill was a brilliant public speaker, the best I've ever heard.
> And surely the Coal Industry along with ship building was killed off by a Tory
> Government under the late un-lamented Margaret Thatcher.

Scargill was the 'subject' on a kids 'question time' I worked on. Fairly
undertandably, many of the questions the kids asked had been supplied by
their parents, etc. Or based on parent's views.

There was a possible fault with the recording, so it had to be checked on
another machine. Meaning a lengthy wait for all.

Scargill was very chatty off camera, and the kids asked their own
questions. Wish that had been recorded as it was far better than the
actual prog - and showed Scargill in a totally different light from his
meja one.

--
*If I agreed with you, we'd both be wrong.

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article <bca99c0f-7660-4600-af9a-94d4fc0fdb16n@googlegroups.com>,
whisky-dave <whisky.dave@gmail.com> wrote:
> I think there's so many differing views and points in sexuality but most
> people only ever see the most basic sides

When I was at school, had a pal whose mother was a widow. Husband killed
at the end of WW2. Her sister lived with them. Both women worked as
teachers.

Many years later, the sister died. Only then did it become public she
wasn't her sister. Of course their relationship could have been platonic.

--
*Wrinkled was not one of the things I wanted to be when I grew up

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Tue, 03 May 2022 15:11:05 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

> When I was at school, had a pal whose mother was a widow. Husband killed
> at the end of WW2. Her sister lived with them. Both women worked as
> teachers.
>
> Many years later, the sister died. Only then did it become public she
> wasn't her sister. Of course their relationship could have been
> platonic.

In the last year of my primary school in 1952 we had a woman teacher with
very short hair, wore a tweed jacket and a tie, smoked a pipe and rode a
motorbike. She had a 'friend' who worked in a local shop who looked
exactly the same. I can't understand why 2 women acting like men fancied
each other. I thought opposites attract?

--
TOJ.

In article <t4rg49$f2k$1@dont-email.me>,
The Other John <nomail@home.org> wrote:
> On Tue, 03 May 2022 15:11:05 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

> > When I was at school, had a pal whose mother was a widow. Husband killed
> > at the end of WW2. Her sister lived with them. Both women worked as
> > teachers.
> >
> > Many years later, the sister died. Only then did it become public she
> > wasn't her sister. Of course their relationship could have been
> > platonic.

> In the last year of my primary school in 1952 we had a woman teacher with
> very short hair, wore a tweed jacket and a tie, smoked a pipe and rode a
> motorbike. She had a 'friend' who worked in a local shop who looked
> exactly the same. I can't understand why 2 women acting like men fancied
> each other. I thought opposites attract?

It could be wearing men's clothing was simply more practical. Would you
find a dress the best thing to wear while working etc?

--
*Always remember you're unique, just like everyone else.

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Tue, 03 May 2022 18:45:26 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

> It could be wearing men's clothing was simply more practical. Would you
> find a dress the best thing to wear while working etc?

It wasn't a question of practicality, they were both trying to look like
men. The one in the shop even had a gruff voice.

--
TOJ.

On 03/05/2022 18:45, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> In article <t4rg49$f2k$1@dont-email.me>,
> The Other John <nomail@home.org> wrote:
>> On Tue, 03 May 2022 15:11:05 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
>
>>> When I was at school, had a pal whose mother was a widow. Husband killed
>>> at the end of WW2. Her sister lived with them. Both women worked as
>>> teachers.
>>>
>>> Many years later, the sister died. Only then did it become public she
>>> wasn't her sister. Of course their relationship could have been
>>> platonic.
>
>> In the last year of my primary school in 1952 we had a woman teacher with
>> very short hair, wore a tweed jacket and a tie, smoked a pipe and rode a
>> motorbike. She had a 'friend' who worked in a local shop who looked
>> exactly the same. I can't understand why 2 women acting like men fancied
>> each other. I thought opposites attract?
>
> It could be wearing men's clothing was simply more practical. Would you
> find a dress the best thing to wear while working etc?
>

Come on Dave. She was teaching students. I could do that in a dress.

All the fiddly bits are when you go for a piss and the bottom off the
dress ends up in urinal and you have to dry it off with the hand drier.

On 03/05/2022 14:50, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

>
>> I know some lesbians who are very attractive. Most however are what I'd
>> call 'passable', reasonable looking to a blind man on a galloping horse.
>
> And you've not considered that could be because you only recognise the
> 'obvious' ones?
>

I said "I know some lesbians." I'm talking about people I know who are
lesbians.

If I don't know someone I'm not likely to know what their sexuality is.

Bill

On 03/05/2022 14:56, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

>>>> I've known lots of gay men who've been nice but only two that have been
>>>> nasty. However the nastiness of the two easily outweighed the niceness
>>>> of all the others! Mind you, they were a nasty pair, they really were.
>>>> Would have spoilt another couple.
>>> Interesting. If you met a straight couple who were nasty, would you also
>>> transfer that onto all other straight couples?
>
>> Sorry, I don't follow. Are you trying to imply some sort of
>> irrationality on my part from my whimsical remark?
>
> Yes. You stated the 'nastiness' of that couple outweighed the 'niceness'
> of the others. Which means you must decide about a group of people as a
> whole. Not as individuals.

There's no reason why we shouldn't generalise about groups of people. Or
form a general opinion about members of the group, as an average.

>>>
>>>> I think in general that growing up and finding that you're in a
>>>> minority, and probably a persecuted minority at that, helps a person
>>>> develop compassion. In most cases.
>>> Really? No racial minorities born in this country are racists either?
>>>
>> Again, you take my suggestion that a factor can influence a person's
>> development to mean that it can dictate it.
>> I said, "HELPS a person
>> >> develop compassion. IN MOST CASES."
>
>> Your logic is as usual flawed.
>
> Scattering around 'probably' and 'most' in such a way shows logic hasn't
> entered into it.
>
It's the thing to do when you're generalising. Not everything is black
and white.

Bill

On 03/05/2022 19:18, The Other John wrote:
> It wasn't a question of practicality, they were both trying to look like
> men. The one in the shop even had a gruff voice.

She was probably a bloke then.

Bill

On 03/05/2022 15:03, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> Scargill was very chatty off camera, and the kids asked their own
> questions. Wish that had been recorded as it was far better than the
> actual prog - and showed Scargill in a totally different light from his
> meja one.

I've chatted with him and found him perfectly agreeable.

Bill

On 03/05/2022 16:01, The Other John wrote:
> On Tue, 03 May 2022 15:11:05 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
>
>> When I was at school, had a pal whose mother was a widow. Husband killed
>> at the end of WW2. Her sister lived with them. Both women worked as
>> teachers.
>>
>> Many years later, the sister died. Only then did it become public she
>> wasn't her sister. Of course their relationship could have been
>> platonic.
>
> In the last year of my primary school in 1952 we had a woman teacher with
> very short hair, wore a tweed jacket and a tie, smoked a pipe and rode a
> motorbike. She had a 'friend' who worked in a local shop who looked
> exactly the same. I can't understand why 2 women acting like men fancied
> each other. I thought opposites attract?
>
I had a 'bachelor' great aunt. Midwife to our family actually. WWI VAG,
magistrate, didn't smoke, but very much 'Miss Marple'. Lived with a
'companion' of the female persuasion. Not unattractive and very
intelligent. Probably frightened all the Edwardian men to death...

....its not necessarily about sex, its often just two people cohabiting
for company, who happen to get on with the same sex better than the
opposite.

--
“But what a weak barrier is truth when it stands in the way of an
hypothesis!”

Mary Wollstonecraft