A number of HST vehicles, including former gWr power cars and ex-LNER
carriages, have moved from Ely to Great Yarmouth to be exported to Mexico!

<https://twitter.com/clinnick1/status/1687161141678522386>

Apparently they will be used on the Tren Maya line, currently being built
in the tourist area of the Yucatan Peninsula south of Cancun; which in an
all too familiar tale, has been downgraded from electric to diesel traction
to save construction costs.

Anna Noyd-Dryver

In message <uajt8d$1edih$1@dont-email.me>, at 22:14:37 on Fri, 4 Aug
2023, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>
>A number of HST vehicles, including former gWr power cars and ex-LNER
>carriages, have moved

On a low loader it says (or if powers cars and carriages, a series of
low loaders presumably) despite the railway line - which saw a railtour
to Great Yarmouth six weeks ago.

>from Ely to Great Yarmouth to be exported to Mexico!
>
><https://twitter.com/clinnick1/status/1687161141678522386>
>
>Apparently they will be used on the Tren Maya line, currently being built
>in the tourist area of the Yucatan Peninsula south of Cancun; which in an
>all too familiar tale, has been downgraded from electric to diesel traction
>to save construction costs.
>
>
>Anna Noyd-Dryver

--
Roland Perry

On Sat, 05 Aug 2023 06:31:42 +0100, Roland Perry wrote:
> On a low loader it says (or if powers cars and carriages, a series of
> low loaders presumably) despite the railway line - which saw a railtour
> to Great Yarmouth six weeks ago.

The line still exists to the passenger station, but the track beyond
there to the docks has been lifted. So they would still need to be moved
to a low loader at some point - the nearest viable option looks to be the
sidings just outside Great Yarmouth. But it's probably simpler to load
them where they already are. Though of course the other option would have
been to export them via a rail-connected port.

Mike

In message <ual38q$1md9q$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:03:22 on Sat, 5 Aug
2023, Mike Humphrey <mail@michaelhumphrey.me.uk> remarked:
>On Sat, 05 Aug 2023 06:31:42 +0100, Roland Perry wrote:
>> On a low loader it says (or if powers cars and carriages, a series of
>> low loaders presumably) despite the railway line - which saw a railtour
>> to Great Yarmouth six weeks ago.
>
>The line still exists to the passenger station, but the track beyond
>there to the docks has been lifted. So they would still need to be moved
>to a low loader at some point - the nearest viable option looks to be the
>sidings just outside Great Yarmouth. But it's probably simpler to load
>them where they already are.

It's a 2hr drive (in a car, longer by low loader) and the same back to
pick up the next one.

>Though of course the other option would have been to export them via a
>rail-connected port.

Southampton? I think some early production IETs came in that way.
Alternatively the railway goes all the way to the docks in Felixstowe,
but probably only container boats.
--
Roland Perry

On 05/08/2023 16:13, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <ual38q$1md9q$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:03:22 on Sat, 5 Aug
> 2023, Mike Humphrey <mail@michaelhumphrey.me.uk> remarked:
>> On Sat, 05 Aug 2023 06:31:42 +0100, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> On a low loader it says (or if powers cars and carriages, a series of
>>> low loaders presumably) despite the railway line - which saw a railtour
>>> to Great Yarmouth six weeks ago.
>>
>> The line still exists to the passenger station, but the track beyond
>> there to the docks has been lifted. So they would still need to be moved
>> to a low loader at some point - the nearest viable option looks to be the
>> sidings just outside Great Yarmouth. But it's probably simpler to load
>> them where they already are.
>
> It's a 2hr drive (in a car, longer by low loader) and the same back to
> pick up the next one.
>
>> Though of course the other option would have been to export them via a
>> rail-connected port.
>
> Southampton? I think some early production IETs came in that way.
> Alternatively the railway goes all the way to the docks in Felixstowe,
> but probably only container boats.

They did, along with the first batch of Class 59s
<https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5e/59001_at_Southampton_Docks.jpg>.
IIRC later batches came in via Newport.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Mike Humphrey <mail@michaelhumphrey.me.uk> wrote:
> On Sat, 05 Aug 2023 06:31:42 +0100, Roland Perry wrote:
> > On a low loader it says (or if powers cars and carriages, a series of
> > low loaders presumably) despite the railway line - which saw a railtour
> > to Great Yarmouth six weeks ago.
>
> The line still exists to the passenger station, but the track beyond
> there to the docks has been lifted. So they would still need to be moved
> to a low loader at some point - the nearest viable option looks to be the
> sidings just outside Great Yarmouth. But it's probably simpler to load
> them where they already are. Though of course the other option would have
> been to export them via a rail-connected port.

I hadn't realised they have built a completely new port in recent years
(well, 2009):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Yarmouth_Outer_Harbour
which is not connected to the old docks branch, even if it remained.

Maybe the Mexicans got a bargain offer to dock their ship there instead of
another port.

Theo

On 05/08/2023 16:51, Theo wrote:
> Mike Humphrey <mail@michaelhumphrey.me.uk> wrote:
>> On Sat, 05 Aug 2023 06:31:42 +0100, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> On a low loader it says (or if powers cars and carriages, a series of
>>> low loaders presumably) despite the railway line - which saw a railtour
>>> to Great Yarmouth six weeks ago.
>>
>> The line still exists to the passenger station, but the track beyond
>> there to the docks has been lifted. So they would still need to be moved
>> to a low loader at some point - the nearest viable option looks to be the
>> sidings just outside Great Yarmouth. But it's probably simpler to load
>> them where they already are. Though of course the other option would have
>> been to export them via a rail-connected port.
>
> I hadn't realised they have built a completely new port in recent years
> (well, 2009):
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Yarmouth_Outer_Harbour
> which is not connected to the old docks branch, even if it remained.
>
> Maybe the Mexicans got a bargain offer to dock their ship there instead of
> another port.
>

Given it would have to be a special charter, Great Yarmouth would be
very much cheaper to dock at than, say, Felixstowe or Southampton.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> On 05/08/2023 16:13, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <ual38q$1md9q$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:03:22 on Sat, 5 Aug
>> 2023, Mike Humphrey <mail@michaelhumphrey.me.uk> remarked:
>>> On Sat, 05 Aug 2023 06:31:42 +0100, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>> On a low loader it says (or if powers cars and carriages, a series of
>>>> low loaders presumably) despite the railway line - which saw a railtour
>>>> to Great Yarmouth six weeks ago.
>>>
>>> The line still exists to the passenger station, but the track beyond
>>> there to the docks has been lifted. So they would still need to be moved
>>> to a low loader at some point - the nearest viable option looks to be the
>>> sidings just outside Great Yarmouth. But it's probably simpler to load
>>> them where they already are.
>>
>> It's a 2hr drive (in a car, longer by low loader) and the same back to
>> pick up the next one.
>>
>>> Though of course the other option would have been to export them via a
>>> rail-connected port.
>>
>> Southampton? I think some early production IETs came in that way.
>> Alternatively the railway goes all the way to the docks in Felixstowe,
>> but probably only container boats.
>
> They did, along with the first batch of Class 59s
> <https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5e/59001_at_Southampton_Docks.jpg>.
> IIRC later batches came in via Newport.
>

That was when those quay side tracks were still usable and connected ,there
have been alterations to the Western Docks since then and I think the
quay side tracks though still mainly in situ have been disconnected.
Though the gap between a connection and a usable line isn’t that far
the intervening 36 years or so have seen the tracks covered in places with
concrete surface repairs so probably too much work for a one off cargo.
One of the vehicle carrier berths in the Eastern Docks appears to still
have a quay side track
<https://maps.app.goo.gl/TE2eCsZJbMvUnAEd9?g_st=ic>
but I don’t recall seeing anything venture that far in years and again
bits have likely been covered.
The rail vehicles that have been imported into Southampton in recent years
have tended to arrive on vehicle carriers mounted on Roll Trailers so could
easily be rolled over to active tracks if it was desired to despatch them
by rail.
Same with rail exports not that there are many with it mainly being track
equipment ,the exception being the 280 Derby built monorail vehicles for
Cairo which for obvious reasons won’t be arriving rail.
They are transported on a section of fabricated track on a low loader and
car and track section transferred to a roller trailer for shipping by
vehicle carrier to Egypt.
The track fabrications are returned empty ready for the next batch.
This group of photos shows the sequence well.
<https://shipsnmoreships.smugmug.com/ShipsinUKWaters/Other-Views/Other-Views-Around-Southampton/i-hSgPxZ3/A>

As an aside even the Dockside cranes don’t use rails anymore.

GH

On 05/08/2023 16:59, Graeme Wall wrote:
> On 05/08/2023 16:51, Theo wrote:
>> Mike Humphrey <mail@michaelhumphrey.me.uk> wrote:
>>> On Sat, 05 Aug 2023 06:31:42 +0100, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>> On a low loader it says (or if powers cars and carriages, a series of
>>>> low loaders presumably) despite the railway line - which saw a railtour
>>>> to Great Yarmouth six weeks ago.
>>>
>>> The line still exists to the passenger station, but the track beyond
>>> there to the docks has been lifted. So they would still need to be moved
>>> to a low loader at some point - the nearest viable option looks to be
>>> the
>>> sidings just outside Great Yarmouth. But it's probably simpler to load
>>> them where they already are. Though of course the other option would
>>> have
>>> been to export them via a rail-connected port.
>>
>> I hadn't realised they have built a completely new port in recent years
>> (well, 2009):
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Yarmouth_Outer_Harbour
>> which is not connected to the old docks branch, even if it remained.
>>
>> Maybe the Mexicans got a bargain offer to dock their ship there
>> instead of
>> another port.
>>
>
> Given it would have to be a special charter, Great Yarmouth would be
> very much cheaper to dock at than, say, Felixstowe or Southampton.
>
The non-English built BR Class 56s were imported via Harwich.

On 05/08/2023 23:49, Coffee wrote:
> On 05/08/2023 16:59, Graeme Wall wrote:
>> On 05/08/2023 16:51, Theo wrote:
>>> Mike Humphrey <mail@michaelhumphrey.me.uk> wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 05 Aug 2023 06:31:42 +0100, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>> On a low loader it says (or if powers cars and carriages, a series of
>>>>> low loaders presumably) despite the railway line - which saw a
>>>>> railtour
>>>>> to Great Yarmouth six weeks ago.
>>>>
>>>> The line still exists to the passenger station, but the track beyond
>>>> there to the docks has been lifted. So they would still need to be
>>>> moved
>>>> to a low loader at some point - the nearest viable option looks to
>>>> be the
>>>> sidings just outside Great Yarmouth. But it's probably simpler to load
>>>> them where they already are. Though of course the other option would
>>>> have
>>>> been to export them via a rail-connected port.
>>>
>>> I hadn't realised they have built a completely new port in recent years
>>> (well, 2009):
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Yarmouth_Outer_Harbour
>>> which is not connected to the old docks branch, even if it remained.
>>>
>>> Maybe the Mexicans got a bargain offer to dock their ship there
>>> instead of
>>> another port.
>>>
>>
>> Given it would have to be a special charter, Great Yarmouth would be
>> very much cheaper to dock at than, say, Felixstowe or Southampton.
>>
> The non-English built BR Class 56s were imported via Harwich.
>

Again, a long time ago, do the tracks still exist?
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> On 05/08/2023 23:49, Coffee wrote:
>> On 05/08/2023 16:59, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>> On 05/08/2023 16:51, Theo wrote:
>>>> Mike Humphrey <mail@michaelhumphrey.me.uk> wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 05 Aug 2023 06:31:42 +0100, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>> On a low loader it says (or if powers cars and carriages, a series of
>>>>>> low loaders presumably) despite the railway line - which saw a
>>>>>> railtour
>>>>>> to Great Yarmouth six weeks ago.
>>>>>
>>>>> The line still exists to the passenger station, but the track beyond
>>>>> there to the docks has been lifted. So they would still need to be
>>>>> moved
>>>>> to a low loader at some point - the nearest viable option looks to
>>>>> be the
>>>>> sidings just outside Great Yarmouth. But it's probably simpler to load
>>>>> them where they already are. Though of course the other option would
>>>>> have
>>>>> been to export them via a rail-connected port.
>>>>
>>>> I hadn't realised they have built a completely new port in recent years
>>>> (well, 2009):
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Yarmouth_Outer_Harbour
>>>> which is not connected to the old docks branch, even if it remained.
>>>>
>>>> Maybe the Mexicans got a bargain offer to dock their ship there
>>>> instead of
>>>> another port.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Given it would have to be a special charter, Great Yarmouth would be
>>> very much cheaper to dock at than, say, Felixstowe or Southampton.
>>>
>> The non-English built BR Class 56s were imported via Harwich.
>>
>
> Again, a long time ago, do the tracks still exist?

I think that they arrived on the train ferry so had run on their own wheels
to Zeebugge and from Harwich to Tinsley to which was the delivery point.
Though still existence the link-span which came from the WW1 Southampton
installation is not usable so even if a train ferry could be found
somewhere trains could not be brought in by that method.

GH

Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>
> A number of HST vehicles, including former gWr power cars and ex-LNER
> carriages, have moved from Ely to Great Yarmouth to be exported to Mexico!
>
> <https://twitter.com/clinnick1/status/1687161141678522386>
>
> Apparently they will be used on the Tren Maya line, currently being built
> in the tourist area of the Yucatan Peninsula south of Cancun; which in an
> all too familiar tale, has been downgraded from electric to diesel traction
> to save construction costs.
>

Cargo Vessel BBC Arkhangelsk with the task of moving former High Speed
Trains (HST's) from Great Yarmouth Outer Harbour to Mexico.

<https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid0euvjkeg69qPXmT1viGvBSB2BC7rCY4VBEnyrnXRXQfiWgTtcsjAzdwwEE6Dq3UHml&id=100069396691834>

Anna Noyd-Dryver

On Thu, 10 Aug 2023 01:24:24 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-Dryver
<anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:

>Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>>
>> A number of HST vehicles, including former gWr power cars and ex-LNER
>> carriages, have moved from Ely to Great Yarmouth to be exported to Mexico!
>>
>> <https://twitter.com/clinnick1/status/1687161141678522386>
>>
>> Apparently they will be used on the Tren Maya line, currently being built
>> in the tourist area of the Yucatan Peninsula south of Cancun; which in an
>> all too familiar tale, has been downgraded from electric to diesel traction
>> to save construction costs.
>>
>
>Cargo Vessel BBC Arkhangelsk with the task of moving former High Speed
>Trains (HST's) from Great Yarmouth Outer Harbour to Mexico.
>
><https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid0euvjkeg69qPXmT1viGvBSB2BC7rCY4VBEnyrnXRXQfiWgTtcsjAzdwwEE6Dq3UHml&id=100069396691834>
>
>
>Anna Noyd-Dryver

First comment generates much guffaws and mirth and general merriment:

"Spencer Clapham: Didnt [sic] even think mexico [sic] would be able to
have the same train line width as us tbf but [...] least there [sic]
not being scrapped"

Social media win prizes...

The ship is Antigua and Barbuda registered; wonder who owns her?

On 10/08/2023 03:06, Nobody wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Aug 2023 01:24:24 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-Dryver
> <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>
>> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> A number of HST vehicles, including former gWr power cars and ex-LNER
>>> carriages, have moved from Ely to Great Yarmouth to be exported to Mexico!
>>>
>>> <https://twitter.com/clinnick1/status/1687161141678522386>
>>>
>>> Apparently they will be used on the Tren Maya line, currently being built
>>> in the tourist area of the Yucatan Peninsula south of Cancun; which in an
>>> all too familiar tale, has been downgraded from electric to diesel traction
>>> to save construction costs.
>>>
>>
>> Cargo Vessel BBC Arkhangelsk with the task of moving former High Speed
>> Trains (HST's) from Great Yarmouth Outer Harbour to Mexico.
>>
>> <https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid0euvjkeg69qPXmT1viGvBSB2BC7rCY4VBEnyrnXRXQfiWgTtcsjAzdwwEE6Dq3UHml&id=100069396691834>
>>
>>
>> Anna Noyd-Dryver
>
> First comment generates much guffaws and mirth and general merriment:
>
> "Spencer Clapham: Didnt [sic] even think mexico [sic] would be able to
> have the same train line width as us tbf but [...] least there [sic]
> not being scrapped"
>
> Social media win prizes...
>
> The ship is Antigua and Barbuda registered; wonder who owns her?

A German company called Zeaborn, based in Bremen.
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On 10/08/2023 03:06, Nobody wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Aug 2023 01:24:24 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-Dryver
> <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>
>> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> A number of HST vehicles, including former gWr power cars and ex-LNER
>>> carriages, have moved from Ely to Great Yarmouth to be exported to Mexico!
>>>
>>> <https://twitter.com/clinnick1/status/1687161141678522386>
>>>
>>> Apparently they will be used on the Tren Maya line, currently being built
>>> in the tourist area of the Yucatan Peninsula south of Cancun; which in an
>>> all too familiar tale, has been downgraded from electric to diesel traction
>>> to save construction costs.
>>>
>>
>> Cargo Vessel BBC Arkhangelsk with the task of moving former High Speed
>> Trains (HST's) from Great Yarmouth Outer Harbour to Mexico.
>>
>> <https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid0euvjkeg69qPXmT1viGvBSB2BC7rCY4VBEnyrnXRXQfiWgTtcsjAzdwwEE6Dq3UHml&id=100069396691834>
>>
>>
>> Anna Noyd-Dryver
>
> First comment generates much guffaws and mirth and general merriment:
>
> "Spencer Clapham: Didnt [sic] even think mexico [sic] would be able to
> have the same train line width as us tbf but [...] least there [sic]
> not being scrapped"
>
> Social media win prizes...
>
> The ship is Antigua and Barbuda registered; wonder who owns her?

I don't think it was at all obvious that Mexico has the same "train line
width", even in the sense of standard gauge, let alone loading gauges.

Nobody <jock@soccer.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Aug 2023 01:24:24 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-Dryver
> <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>
>> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> A number of HST vehicles, including former gWr power cars and ex-LNER
>>> carriages, have moved from Ely to Great Yarmouth to be exported to Mexico!
>>>

>> Cargo Vessel BBC Arkhangelsk with the task of moving former High Speed
>> Trains (HST's) from Great Yarmouth Outer Harbour to Mexico.
>>
>> <https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid0euvjkeg69qPXmT1viGvBSB2BC7rCY4VBEnyrnXRXQfiWgTtcsjAzdwwEE6Dq3UHml&id=100069396691834>
>>
>>
>> Anna Noyd-Dryver
>
> First comment generates much guffaws and mirth and general merriment:
>
> "Spencer Clapham: Didnt [sic] even think mexico [sic] would be able to
> have the same train line width as us tbf but [...] least there [sic]
> not being scrapped"
>
> Social media win prizes...
>
Most people are not railway enthusiasts and the comment “train line width”
suggest they mean gauge of the track.
While Mexico is physically in North America many people because of its
economic situation ,language,and colonisation history associate it more
with the countries of Central and South America amongst which many chose
broader gauges such as 5ft 6” , 5ft 3” or narrower ones such as 3ft” or 3ft
6” and even the Panama Canal Railway during the years is was a US
enterprise was the rarer 5ft gauge only changing to std in recent times
since Panama obtained control.
So for a non enthusiast to not automatically assume the Mexican line is std
gauge seems reasonable.
GH

Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> On 10/08/2023 03:06, Nobody wrote:
>> On Thu, 10 Aug 2023 01:24:24 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-Dryver
>> <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> A number of HST vehicles, including former gWr power cars and ex-LNER
>>>> carriages, have moved from Ely to Great Yarmouth to be exported to Mexico!
>>>>
>>>> <https://twitter.com/clinnick1/status/1687161141678522386>
>>>>
>>>> Apparently they will be used on the Tren Maya line, currently being built
>>>> in the tourist area of the Yucatan Peninsula south of Cancun; which in an
>>>> all too familiar tale, has been downgraded from electric to diesel traction
>>>> to save construction costs.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Cargo Vessel BBC Arkhangelsk with the task of moving former High Speed
>>> Trains (HST's) from Great Yarmouth Outer Harbour to Mexico.
>>>
>>> <https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid0euvjkeg69qPXmT1viGvBSB2BC7rCY4VBEnyrnXRXQfiWgTtcsjAzdwwEE6Dq3UHml&id=100069396691834>
>>>
>>>
>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver
>>
>> First comment generates much guffaws and mirth and general merriment:
>>
>> "Spencer Clapham: Didnt [sic] even think mexico [sic] would be able to
>> have the same train line width as us tbf but [...] least there [sic]
>> not being scrapped"
>>
>> Social media win prizes...
>>
>> The ship is Antigua and Barbuda registered; wonder who owns her?
>
> A German company called Zeaborn, based in Bremen.

This is a little bizarre. Arkhangelsk is a major Russian port and region
on the White Sea and BBC is the way VVS looks in the Cyrillic alphabet, VVS
being the abbreviation for the Russian airforce. Could this be sanctions
busting in plain sight?

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

In message <kjjondFb384U1@mid.individual.net>, at 09:25:01 on Thu, 10
Aug 2023, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
>Nobody <jock@soccer.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, 10 Aug 2023 01:24:24 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-Dryver
>> <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> A number of HST vehicles, including former gWr power cars and ex-LNER
>>>> carriages, have moved from Ely to Great Yarmouth to be exported to Mexico!
>>>>
>
>>> Cargo Vessel BBC Arkhangelsk with the task of moving former High Speed
>>> Trains (HST's) from Great Yarmouth Outer Harbour to Mexico.
>>>
>>>
>>><https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid0euvjkeg69qPXmT1viGv
>>>BSB2BC7rCY4VBEnyrnXRXQfiWgTtcsjAzdwwEE6Dq3UHml&id=100069396691834>
>>>
>>>
>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver
>>
>> First comment generates much guffaws and mirth and general merriment:
>>
>> "Spencer Clapham: Didnt [sic] even think mexico [sic] would be able to
>> have the same train line width as us tbf but [...] least there [sic]
>> not being scrapped"
>>
>> Social media win prizes...
>>
>Most people are not railway enthusiasts and the comment “train line width”
>suggest they mean gauge of the track.
>While Mexico is physically in North America many people because of its
>economic situation ,language,and colonisation history associate it more
>with the countries of Central and South America amongst which many chose
>broader gauges such as 5ft 6” , 5ft 3” or narrower ones such as
>3ft” or 3ft
>6” and even the Panama Canal Railway during the years is was a US
>enterprise was the rarer 5ft gauge only changing to std in recent times
>since Panama obtained control.
>So for a non enthusiast to not automatically assume the Mexican line is std
>gauge seems reasonable.

What would be more reasonable to assume is that all this expense is not
being put into futile project on account of the difference in gauge (be
that track or loading gauges).
--
Roland Perry

Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 10/08/2023 03:06, Nobody wrote:
>>> On Thu, 10 Aug 2023 01:24:24 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-Dryver
>>> <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> A number of HST vehicles, including former gWr power cars and ex-LNER
>>>>> carriages, have moved from Ely to Great Yarmouth to be exported to Mexico!
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://twitter.com/clinnick1/status/1687161141678522386>
>>>>>
>>>>> Apparently they will be used on the Tren Maya line, currently being built
>>>>> in the tourist area of the Yucatan Peninsula south of Cancun; which in an
>>>>> all too familiar tale, has been downgraded from electric to diesel traction
>>>>> to save construction costs.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Cargo Vessel BBC Arkhangelsk with the task of moving former High Speed
>>>> Trains (HST's) from Great Yarmouth Outer Harbour to Mexico.
>>>>
>>>> <https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid0euvjkeg69qPXmT1viGvBSB2BC7rCY4VBEnyrnXRXQfiWgTtcsjAzdwwEE6Dq3UHml&id=100069396691834>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver
>>>
>>> First comment generates much guffaws and mirth and general merriment:
>>>
>>> "Spencer Clapham: Didnt [sic] even think mexico [sic] would be able to
>>> have the same train line width as us tbf but [...] least there [sic]
>>> not being scrapped"
>>>
>>> Social media win prizes...
>>>
>>> The ship is Antigua and Barbuda registered; wonder who owns her?
>>
>> A German company called Zeaborn, based in Bremen.
>
> This is a little bizarre. Arkhangelsk is a major Russian port and region
> on the White Sea and BBC is the way VVS looks in the Cyrillic alphabet, VVS
> being the abbreviation for the Russian airforce. Could this be sanctions
> busting in plain sight?
>

In this case, 'BBC' is

BBC Chartering GmbH & Co KG
Hafenstr. 12 (visiting address: 10b)
26789 Leer
Germany

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BBC_Chartering

This is its gross fleet list, which are mainly named after ports, countries
and rivers. In 2020, it probably seemed OK to name vessels after Russian
ports.

https://www.bbc-chartering.com/fleet-and-positions/fleet-list

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On 10/08/2023 03:06, Nobody wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 10 Aug 2023 01:24:24 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-Dryver
>>>> <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A number of HST vehicles, including former gWr power cars and ex-LNER
>>>>>> carriages, have moved from Ely to Great Yarmouth to be exported to Mexico!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <https://twitter.com/clinnick1/status/1687161141678522386>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Apparently they will be used on the Tren Maya line, currently being built
>>>>>> in the tourist area of the Yucatan Peninsula south of Cancun; which in an
>>>>>> all too familiar tale, has been downgraded from electric to diesel traction
>>>>>> to save construction costs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Cargo Vessel BBC Arkhangelsk with the task of moving former High Speed
>>>>> Trains (HST's) from Great Yarmouth Outer Harbour to Mexico.
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid0euvjkeg69qPXmT1viGvBSB2BC7rCY4VBEnyrnXRXQfiWgTtcsjAzdwwEE6Dq3UHml&id=100069396691834>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver
>>>>
>>>> First comment generates much guffaws and mirth and general merriment:
>>>>
>>>> "Spencer Clapham: Didnt [sic] even think mexico [sic] would be able to
>>>> have the same train line width as us tbf but [...] least there [sic]
>>>> not being scrapped"
>>>>
>>>> Social media win prizes...
>>>>
>>>> The ship is Antigua and Barbuda registered; wonder who owns her?
>>>
>>> A German company called Zeaborn, based in Bremen.
>>
>> This is a little bizarre. Arkhangelsk is a major Russian port and region
>> on the White Sea and BBC is the way VVS looks in the Cyrillic alphabet, VVS
>> being the abbreviation for the Russian airforce. Could this be sanctions
>> busting in plain sight?
>>
>
> In this case, 'BBC' is
>
> BBC Chartering GmbH & Co KG
> Hafenstr. 12 (visiting address: 10b)
> 26789 Leer
> Germany
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BBC_Chartering
>
> This is its gross fleet list, which are mainly named after ports, countries
> and rivers. In 2020, it probably seemed OK to name vessels after Russian
> ports.
>
> https://www.bbc-chartering.com/fleet-and-positions/fleet-list

That would be what they would want you to think, of course… :-)

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

On Thu, 10 Aug 2023 11:32:16 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:

>In message <kjjondFb384U1@mid.individual.net>, at 09:25:01 on Thu, 10
>Aug 2023, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
>>Nobody <jock@soccer.com> wrote:
>>> On Thu, 10 Aug 2023 01:24:24 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-Dryver
>>> <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> A number of HST vehicles, including former gWr power cars and ex-LNER
>>>>> carriages, have moved from Ely to Great Yarmouth to be exported to Mexico!
>>>>>
>>
>>>> Cargo Vessel BBC Arkhangelsk with the task of moving former High Speed
>>>> Trains (HST's) from Great Yarmouth Outer Harbour to Mexico.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>><https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid0euvjkeg69qPXmT1viGv
>>>>BSB2BC7rCY4VBEnyrnXRXQfiWgTtcsjAzdwwEE6Dq3UHml&id=100069396691834>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver
>>>
>>> First comment generates much guffaws and mirth and general merriment:
>>>
>>> "Spencer Clapham: Didnt [sic] even think mexico [sic] would be able to
>>> have the same train line width as us tbf but [...] least there [sic]
>>> not being scrapped"
>>>
>>> Social media win prizes...
>>>
>>Most people are not railway enthusiasts and the comment “train line width”
>>suggest they mean gauge of the track.
>>While Mexico is physically in North America many people because of its
>>economic situation ,language,and colonisation history associate it more
>>with the countries of Central and South America amongst which many chose
>>broader gauges such as 5ft 6” , 5ft 3” or narrower ones such as
>>3ft” or 3ft
>>6” and even the Panama Canal Railway during the years is was a US
>>enterprise was the rarer 5ft gauge only changing to std in recent times
>>since Panama obtained control.
>>So for a non enthusiast to not automatically assume the Mexican line is std
>>gauge seems reasonable.
>
>What would be more reasonable to assume is that all this expense is not
>being put into futile project on account of the difference in gauge (be
>that track or loading gauges).

I do wonder how much they intend to spend on refurbishing these rusty old trains. Or are these GWR Castles that have
already had the doors and toilets done?

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:v
>>>> The ship is Antigua and Barbuda registered; wonder who owns her?
>>>
>>> A German company called Zeaborn, based in Bremen.
>>
>> This is a little bizarre. Arkhangelsk is a major Russian port and region
>> on the White Sea and BBC is the way VVS looks in the Cyrillic alphabet, VVS
>> being the abbreviation for the Russian airforce. Could this be sanctions
>> busting in plain sight?
>>
>
> In this case, 'BBC' is
>
> BBC Chartering GmbH & Co KG
> Hafenstr. 12 (visiting address: 10b)
> 26789 Leer
> Germany
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BBC_Chartering
>
> This is its gross fleet list, which are mainly named after ports, countries
> and rivers. In 2020, it probably seemed OK to name vessels after Russian
> ports.
>

Two of the Locomotives that were removed from the Bideford ,Westward Ho!
and Appledore Railway when it was closed to help the WW1 war effort were
loaded on to a ship and lost when it was torpedoed , it was called by the
very Germanic name the S S Gotterdammerung though in recent times the
events and veracity of the tale have been questioned .
It was thought that the ship was one of those caught in a British Port on
the outbreak of hostilities
and requisitioned . Of course another captured German ship following WW2
became famous under its British Name “Empire Windrush” but its history as
the MV Monte Rosa promoting the Nazi ideology of the late 1930’s seems to
be airbrushed out. Probably would take the spotlight of Windrush Generation
story if its role in oppressing others was more known.

GH

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Aug 2023 11:32:16 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>
>> In message <kjjondFb384U1@mid.individual.net>, at 09:25:01 on Thu, 10
>> Aug 2023, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
>>> Nobody <jock@soccer.com> wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 10 Aug 2023 01:24:24 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-Dryver
>>>> <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A number of HST vehicles, including former gWr power cars and ex-LNER
>>>>>> carriages, have moved from Ely to Great Yarmouth to be exported to Mexico!
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>> Cargo Vessel BBC Arkhangelsk with the task of moving former High Speed
>>>>> Trains (HST's) from Great Yarmouth Outer Harbour to Mexico.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid0euvjkeg69qPXmT1viGv
>>>>> BSB2BC7rCY4VBEnyrnXRXQfiWgTtcsjAzdwwEE6Dq3UHml&id=100069396691834>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver
>>>>
>>>> First comment generates much guffaws and mirth and general merriment:
>>>>
>>>> "Spencer Clapham: Didnt [sic] even think mexico [sic] would be able to
>>>> have the same train line width as us tbf but [...] least there [sic]
>>>> not being scrapped"
>>>>
>>>> Social media win prizes...
>>>>
>>> Most people are not railway enthusiasts and the comment “train line width”
>>> suggest they mean gauge of the track.
>>> While Mexico is physically in North America many people because of its
>>> economic situation ,language,and colonisation history associate it more
>>> with the countries of Central and South America amongst which many chose
>>> broader gauges such as 5ft 6” , 5ft 3” or narrower ones such as
>>> 3ft” or 3ft
>>> 6” and even the Panama Canal Railway during the years is was a US
>>> enterprise was the rarer 5ft gauge only changing to std in recent times
>>> since Panama obtained control.
>>> So for a non enthusiast to not automatically assume the Mexican line is std
>>> gauge seems reasonable.
>>
>> What would be more reasonable to assume is that all this expense is not
>> being put into futile project on account of the difference in gauge (be
>> that track or loading gauges).
>
> I do wonder how much they intend to spend on refurbishing these rusty old
> trains. Or are these GWR Castles that have
> already had the doors and toilets done?
>

I have been wondering if things like aircon are rated or reliable enough to
cope with the temperatures
that may be encountered over there.
Then there are other little things to consider, this new line appears to be
for tourists so they will probably expect things like power outlets. Mexico
is 120V 60Hz territory with US style sockets so to convert will take liitle
longer than just swapping the existing outlets .

GH

On 10 Aug 2023 11:51:46 GMT, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:

>Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, 10 Aug 2023 11:32:16 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> In message <kjjondFb384U1@mid.individual.net>, at 09:25:01 on Thu, 10
>>> Aug 2023, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
>>>> Nobody <jock@soccer.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, 10 Aug 2023 01:24:24 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-Dryver
>>>>> <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A number of HST vehicles, including former gWr power cars and ex-LNER
>>>>>>> carriages, have moved from Ely to Great Yarmouth to be exported to Mexico!
>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> Cargo Vessel BBC Arkhangelsk with the task of moving former High Speed
>>>>>> Trains (HST's) from Great Yarmouth Outer Harbour to Mexico.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid0euvjkeg69qPXmT1viGv
>>>>>> BSB2BC7rCY4VBEnyrnXRXQfiWgTtcsjAzdwwEE6Dq3UHml&id=100069396691834>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver
>>>>>
>>>>> First comment generates much guffaws and mirth and general merriment:
>>>>>
>>>>> "Spencer Clapham: Didnt [sic] even think mexico [sic] would be able to
>>>>> have the same train line width as us tbf but [...] least there [sic]
>>>>> not being scrapped"
>>>>>
>>>>> Social media win prizes...
>>>>>
>>>> Most people are not railway enthusiasts and the comment “train line width”
>>>> suggest they mean gauge of the track.
>>>> While Mexico is physically in North America many people because of its
>>>> economic situation ,language,and colonisation history associate it more
>>>> with the countries of Central and South America amongst which many chose
>>>> broader gauges such as 5ft 6” , 5ft 3” or narrower ones such as
>>>> 3ft” or 3ft
>>>> 6” and even the Panama Canal Railway during the years is was a US
>>>> enterprise was the rarer 5ft gauge only changing to std in recent times
>>>> since Panama obtained control.
>>>> So for a non enthusiast to not automatically assume the Mexican line is std
>>>> gauge seems reasonable.
>>>
>>> What would be more reasonable to assume is that all this expense is not
>>> being put into futile project on account of the difference in gauge (be
>>> that track or loading gauges).
>>
>> I do wonder how much they intend to spend on refurbishing these rusty old
>> trains. Or are these GWR Castles that have
>> already had the doors and toilets done?
>>
>
>I have been wondering if things like aircon are rated or reliable enough to
>cope with the temperatures
>that may be encountered over there.

Yes, I was wondering about that, too.

>Then there are other little things to consider, this new line appears to be
>for tourists so they will probably expect things like power outlets. Mexico
>is 120V 60Hz territory with US style sockets so to convert will take liitle
>longer than just swapping the existing outlets .

Yes, assuming they have sockets fitted at all.

I don't know anything about Mexican train platforms, but they may very well not be at the same height and spacing as
ours, so there may be a big step down or a wide gap.

On 10/08/2023 12:37, Recliner wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Aug 2023 11:32:16 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>
>> In message <kjjondFb384U1@mid.individual.net>, at 09:25:01 on Thu, 10
>> Aug 2023, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
>>> Nobody <jock@soccer.com> wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 10 Aug 2023 01:24:24 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-Dryver
>>>> <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A number of HST vehicles, including former gWr power cars and ex-LNER
>>>>>> carriages, have moved from Ely to Great Yarmouth to be exported to Mexico!
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>> Cargo Vessel BBC Arkhangelsk with the task of moving former High Speed
>>>>> Trains (HST's) from Great Yarmouth Outer Harbour to Mexico.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid0euvjkeg69qPXmT1viGv
>>>>> BSB2BC7rCY4VBEnyrnXRXQfiWgTtcsjAzdwwEE6Dq3UHml&id=100069396691834>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver
>>>>
>>>> First comment generates much guffaws and mirth and general merriment:
>>>>
>>>> "Spencer Clapham: Didnt [sic] even think mexico [sic] would be able to
>>>> have the same train line width as us tbf but [...] least there [sic]
>>>> not being scrapped"
>>>>
>>>> Social media win prizes...
>>>>
>>> Most people are not railway enthusiasts and the comment “train line width”
>>> suggest they mean gauge of the track.
>>> While Mexico is physically in North America many people because of its
>>> economic situation ,language,and colonisation history associate it more
>>> with the countries of Central and South America amongst which many chose
>>> broader gauges such as 5ft 6” , 5ft 3” or narrower ones such as
>>> 3ft” or 3ft
>>> 6” and even the Panama Canal Railway during the years is was a US
>>> enterprise was the rarer 5ft gauge only changing to std in recent times
>>> since Panama obtained control.
>>> So for a non enthusiast to not automatically assume the Mexican line is std
>>> gauge seems reasonable.
>>
>> What would be more reasonable to assume is that all this expense is not
>> being put into futile project on account of the difference in gauge (be
>> that track or loading gauges).
>
> I do wonder how much they intend to spend on refurbishing these rusty old trains. Or are these GWR Castles that have
> already had the doors and toilets done?

They appeared to be in Stagecoach livery.

--
Graeme Wall
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