On 14/12/2021 09:56, YTC#1 wrote:

>
> I've never enjoyed cooking on electric, just not as controlable.
>

You should try a modern induction hob. Amazing bit of kit. Will boil
water faster than an electric kettle (ours goes up to 11), and you can
instantly turn it down to a simmer.

--
/Simon

On Tuesday, 14 December 2021 at 17:51:13 UTC, siwilson wrote:
> On 14/12/2021 09:56, YTC#1 wrote:
>
> >
> > I've never enjoyed cooking on electric, just not as controlable.
> >
> You should try a modern induction hob. Amazing bit of kit. Will boil
> water faster than an electric kettle (ours goes up to 11), and you can
> instantly turn it down to a simmer.

I think we're all going to have to move to this sooner or later.

And... damn it... no more camping gas!

On 14/12/2021 17:51, siwilson wrote:
> On 14/12/2021 09:56, YTC#1 wrote:
>
>>
>> I've never enjoyed cooking on electric, just not as controlable.
>>
>
> You should try a modern induction hob. Amazing bit of kit. Will boil
> water faster than an electric kettle (ours goes up to 11), and you can
> instantly turn it down to a simmer.
>

+1

We often use ours when 'camping' if the campervan is hooked up to mains.

--
Moto Morini 2C/375, Moto Morini 2C/350
Gilera 175 Sport, Husqvarna 401 Svartpilen
1937 Sunbeam Model 14 250 Sports
"Do not adjust your mind, there is a fault in the reality"

On 14/12/2021 18:16, Stephen Packer wrote:
> On Tuesday, 14 December 2021 at 17:51:13 UTC, siwilson wrote:
>> On 14/12/2021 09:56, YTC#1 wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I've never enjoyed cooking on electric, just not as controlable.
>>>
>> You should try a modern induction hob. Amazing bit of kit. Will boil
>> water faster than an electric kettle (ours goes up to 11), and you can
>> instantly turn it down to a simmer.
>
> I think we're all going to have to move to this sooner or later.
>
> And... damn it... no more camping gas!
>

I quite like my Coleman stove, it does smoke a bit on premix[1]

No gas here so we had a radiant hob before this latest toy. It was quite
useless, took an age to heat things up and then burnt them when you
turned it right down.

[1]Probably, I've never had to try it. It does need a new regenerator though

--
/Simon

Stephen Packer wrote:
> siwilson wrote:
> > You should try a modern induction hob. Amazing bit of kit. Will boil
> > water faster than an electric kettle (ours goes up to 11), and you can
> > instantly turn it down to a simmer.
>
> I think we're all going to have to move to this sooner or later.
>
> And... damn it... no more camping gas!

A 75 kWh Tesla battery holds enough energy to boil... *does sums*... 800 litres of water. I think we'll cope.

Not much use for burning sausages on my Weber Q though.

On 14/12/2021 18:58, ogden wrote:
> Stephen Packer wrote:
>> siwilson wrote:
>>> You should try a modern induction hob. Amazing bit of kit. Will boil
>>> water faster than an electric kettle (ours goes up to 11), and you can
>>> instantly turn it down to a simmer.
>>
>> I think we're all going to have to move to this sooner or later.
>>
>> And... damn it... no more camping gas!
>
> A 75 kWh Tesla battery holds enough energy to boil... *does sums*... 800 litres of water. I think we'll cope.
>
> Not much use for burning sausages on my Weber Q though.
>

The newly acquired gin palace has an external connector to plug one of
those in.

--
/Simon

On 14/12/2021 19:03, siwilson wrote:
> On 14/12/2021 18:58, ogden wrote:
>> Stephen Packer wrote:
>>> siwilson wrote:
>>>> You should try a modern induction hob. Amazing bit of kit. Will boil
>>>> water faster than an electric kettle (ours goes up to 11), and you can
>>>> instantly turn it down to a simmer.
>>>
>>> I think we're all going to have to move to this sooner or later.
>>>
>>> And... damn it... no more camping gas!
>>
>> A 75 kWh Tesla battery holds enough energy to boil... *does sums*...
>> 800 litres of water. I think we'll cope.
>>
>> Not much use for burning sausages on my Weber Q though.
>>
>
> The newly acquired gin palace has an external connector to plug one of
> those in.
>

<Googles> portable-ish gas bbq's aren't cheap are they?

--
/Simon

On Tuesday, 14 December 2021 at 18:58:39 UTC, ogden wrote:
> Stephen Packer wrote:

> > And... damn it... no more camping gas!
> A 75 kWh Tesla battery holds enough energy to boil... *does sums*... 800 litres of water. I think we'll cope.

You've bought a Tesla?

I'm sure we'll cope but I quite liked my gas-fired Trangia.

On 14/12/2021 17:51, siwilson wrote:
> On 14/12/2021 09:56, YTC#1 wrote:
>
>>
>> I've never enjoyed cooking on electric, just not as controlable.
>>
>
> You should try a modern induction hob. Amazing bit of kit. Will boil
> water faster than an electric kettle (ours goes up to 11), and you can
> instantly turn it down to a simmer.
>

I've used them, just one of those things I don't like.

--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly"
http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/
There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/

On Tue, 14 Dec 2021 00:30:45 -0800 (PST), Hog <york996@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Friday, 10 December 2021 at 17:17:17 UTC, stephen...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Friday, 10 December 2021 at 15:30:55 UTC, Hog wrote:
>>
>> > Hopefully common sense (1) will prevail and the synthesis of fuel using equitorial solar energy in any of a dozen potential nations will preval, with those hybrid (range extended) non plug in vehicles, in a carbon neutral or negative cycle. Hydrogen is TMFH.
>> TMFH? Too much fucking hype?
>>
>> I think it has its place (aircraft, lorries possibly agricultural vehicles, maybe home heating
>> until other technologies take over) but for cars? No.
>>
>> I can see an argument of Hydrogen for motorcycles, at least until we get higher energy
>> density battery technologies though.
>
>Too much fucking hassle.
>Re cryogenic transport and storage, something I've got a lot of history with.
>
>You don't have to be a physicist to understand the problems and limitations of hydrogen as a road fuel. The energy content by volume in the gaseous phase is low and liquid storage is challenging. Boiling point of LPG 231.15K Hydrogen 20.28K. Almost as tricky as Helium with added fun on spontaneous release.

At least as good as a battery, even as a gas, and short refuelling
time. And you don't have all that faff with chemical degradation,
having to maintain the right charge level and voltage droop in use of
batteries.

>It's not practical to use on a motorbike as it can only be stored as a gas, the quantity/range is insufficient. It's better in a car, but still substandard. Practical in trucks and public service vehicles that can carry large high pressure (700 Bar) tanks (that's still gas not liquid).
>Cryogenic storage and transfer could be applied to large aircraft I guess, as long as takeoff is soon after fuelling. Ships could use it as a fuel.

This was mooted a long time ago; long before even "Global Warming" was
a thing. One problem is getting enough hubs with the infrastructure.
Think the tanks would have to be inside the fuselage, too. I suspect
it would be hard to insulate cryo tanks inside a wing.

> Thing is, a synthetic hydrocarbon fuel would just be so much easier and more useful.

That would be ideal. The problem is: how do you recycle the CO2?

>The other inconvenient truth is that Li-xxx batteries are a *terrible* solution for road transport.

They're not great for general use. But for a regular commute or
driving around town only they're fine, so long as you can charge up
overnight. Which admittedly would be a problem for many.

>Hydrogen could replace natural gas, although the gas network would require significant re-engineering.

I used to believe this fervently, and the fact that the gas network
could be used to refuel hydrogen vehicles, however...

>The gas would be produced by electrolysis, but in most non industrial applications why on earth would we not just use the electricity directly?

Yep, so I understand it.

> with nuclear energy electricity production is effectively unlimited and cheap to produce. Leaving hydrogen in an industrial feedstock/fuel niche.

--

-Pip

On 14/12/2021 18:16, Stephen Packer wrote:
> On Tuesday, 14 December 2021 at 17:51:13 UTC, siwilson wrote:
>> On 14/12/2021 09:56, YTC#1 wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I've never enjoyed cooking on electric, just not as controlable.
>>>
>> You should try a modern induction hob. Amazing bit of kit. Will boil
>> water faster than an electric kettle (ours goes up to 11), and you can
>> instantly turn it down to a simmer.
>
> I think we're all going to have to move to this sooner or later.
>
> And... damn it... no more camping gas!
>

<Shudder>

--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly"
http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/
There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/

On 14/12/2021 18:48, siwilson wrote:
> On 14/12/2021 18:16, Stephen Packer wrote:
>> On Tuesday, 14 December 2021 at 17:51:13 UTC, siwilson wrote:
>>> On 14/12/2021 09:56, YTC#1 wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I've never enjoyed cooking on electric, just not as controlable.
>>>>
>>> You should try a modern induction hob. Amazing bit of kit. Will boil
>>> water faster than an electric kettle (ours goes up to 11), and you can
>>> instantly turn it down to a simmer.
>>
>> I think we're all going to have to move to this sooner or later.
>>
>> And... damn it... no more camping gas!
>>
>
> I quite like my Coleman stove, it does smoke a bit on premix[1]

Ditto, but I don;t use it as much now. f not kept clean they get a
little "flamey"

>

>

--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly"
http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/
There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/

On Tue, 14 Dec 2021 09:56:55 +0000, YTC#1 <bdp@ytc1-spambin.co.uk>
wrote:

>I've never enjoyed cooking on electric, just not as controlable.

I agree, it's a bit pants. However, our hob is a fairly primitive but
very common resistor 'n' thermal switch arrangement. There's no reason
at all why it couldn't be a bit cleverer.

>And unless we work out what to do with our current nuclear polution, I'm
>not a fan of carrying on with it. Watching Simon Reeves report from
>Seascale recently only re-inforced my opion. The clean up is horrific.

Bear in mind that Seascale was mostly Gen1 reactors whose primary
purpose was to hastily cobble together enough Plutonium for bombs, to
Keep Britain In The Game.

The result, and, who knows, maybe the culture that start engendered,
should not apply to a modern Gen2+ reactor like Sizewell B and Hinkley
Point C.

--

-Pip

On 14/12/2021 11:23, Stephen Packer wrote:
> On Tuesday, 14 December 2021 at 08:30:47 UTC, Hog wrote:
> <snip>
>
> I think we *mostly* agreed, but you from a position of experience with gas storage- which explains why
> my question about motorcycles was naive.
>
>> Cryogenic storage and transfer could be applied to large aircraft I guess, as long as takeoff is soon after fuelling. Ships could use it as a fuel. Thing is, a synthetic hydrocarbon fuel would just be so much easier and more useful.
>
> Isn't a synthetic hydrocarbon going to have emission issues?

AIUI, it's synthesised from CO2 and H2O, so it's a carbon-neutral
process (realistically so, unlike burning wood which leaves the CO2 from
the burning hanging around for a few years until it's incorporated into
another tree).

On 15/12/2021 03:37 Pipl penned these words:
>> The other inconvenient truth is that Li-xxx batteries are a *terrible* solution for road transport.
> They're not great for general use. But for a regular commute or
> driving around town only they're fine, so long as you can charge up
> overnight. Which admittedly would be a problem for many.
>

Watched a demo / proof of concept video of continuos charging via wireless.
Early days but in theory it would vastly extend the range of delivery vehicles
since the main routes and the stops would all be topping up the battery leaving
only side roads etc to be a drain as it were.

--
Ian

"Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of
the last priest"

On 15/12/2021 02:48 siwilson penned these words:
> On 14/12/2021 18:16, Stephen Packer wrote:
>> On Tuesday, 14 December 2021 at 17:51:13 UTC, siwilson wrote:
>>> On 14/12/2021 09:56, YTC#1 wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I've never enjoyed cooking on electric, just not as controlable.
>>>>
>>> You should try a modern induction hob. Amazing bit of kit. Will boil
>>> water faster than an electric kettle (ours goes up to 11), and you can
>>> instantly turn it down to a simmer.
>>
>> I think we're all going to have to move to this sooner or later.
>>
>> And... damn it... no more camping gas!
>>
>
> I quite like my Coleman stove, it does smoke a bit on premix[1]
>
> No gas here so we had a radiant hob before this latest toy. It was quite
> useless, took an age to heat things up and then burnt them when you
> turned it right down.
>
> [1]Probably, I've never had to try it. It does need a new regenerator though
>

No piped gas, comes in 12kg bottles that arrive on the back of a small
motorcycle a Honda cub or clone of and live under the worktop Can't see any
electric taking off big time when a lot of the cooking is in a Wok.

--
Ian

"Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of
the last priest"

On Tue, 14 Dec 2021 23:11:31 +0000, Mike Fleming <mike@tauzero.co.uk>
wrote:

>On 14/12/2021 11:23, Stephen Packer wrote:

>> Isn't a synthetic hydrocarbon going to have emission issues?
>
>AIUI, it's synthesised from CO2 and H2O, so it's a carbon-neutral
>process

Always assuming it's done by using carbon-neutral elctricity, of
course.

That's obvious, I'm sure, but often seems to get overlooked, as it is
in the case of EVs. The motor industry's headlong push towards them
without the world moving at the same pace towards carbon-neutral
generation is actually quite worrying.

Put simply, if you're using hydrocarbons to generate the power in the
first place the overal emissions will be significantly higher than
just burning petrol directly in the vehicle.
--
Ace
http://www.chaletbeauroc.com/

On 14/12/2021 23:49, Boots wrote:
> On 15/12/2021 02:48 siwilson penned these words:
>> On 14/12/2021 18:16, Stephen Packer wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, 14 December 2021 at 17:51:13 UTC, siwilson wrote:
>>>> On 14/12/2021 09:56, YTC#1 wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I've never enjoyed cooking on electric, just not as controlable.
>>>>>
>>>> You should try a modern induction hob. Amazing bit of kit. Will boil
>>>> water faster than an electric kettle (ours goes up to 11), and you can
>>>> instantly turn it down to a simmer.
>>>
>>> I think we're all going to have to move to this sooner or later.
>>>
>>> And... damn it... no more camping gas!
>>>
>>
>> I quite like my Coleman stove, it does smoke a bit on premix[1]
>>
>> No gas here so we had a radiant hob before this latest toy. It was quite
>> useless, took an age to heat things up and then burnt them when you
>> turned it right down.
>>
>> [1]Probably, I've never had to try it. It does need a new regenerator though
>>
>
> No piped gas, comes in 12kg bottles that arrive on the back of a small
> motorcycle a Honda cub or clone of and live under the worktop Can't see any
> electric taking off big time when a lot of the cooking is in a Wok.
>

A fair point, not every where in the world has what we have.

--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly"
http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/
There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/

On 14/12/2021 19:47, Pipl wrote:
> On Tue, 14 Dec 2021 09:56:55 +0000, YTC#1 <bdp@ytc1-spambin.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> I've never enjoyed cooking on electric, just not as controlable.
>
> I agree, it's a bit pants. However, our hob is a fairly primitive but
> very common resistor 'n' thermal switch arrangement. There's no reason
> at all why it couldn't be a bit cleverer.
>
>> And unless we work out what to do with our current nuclear polution, I'm
>> not a fan of carrying on with it. Watching Simon Reeves report from
>> Seascale recently only re-inforced my opion. The clean up is horrific.
>
> Bear in mind that Seascale was mostly Gen1 reactors whose primary
> purpose was to hastily cobble together enough Plutonium for bombs, to
> Keep Britain In The Game.
>
> The result, and, who knows, maybe the culture that start engendered,
> should not apply to a modern Gen2+ reactor like Sizewell B and Hinkley
> Point C.
>

Granted, but the slapdash way they chose to deal with the waste (like
not recording what was in the containers, and where[1] seemed to
contimue througout its life.

And then there was the fact it took in waste from other nations, which
will be wth us for a long lpng time.

[1] According to what was shown on the program.

--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly"
http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/
There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/

On Tuesday, December 14, 2021 at 7:20:31 PM UTC, siwilson wrote:
> On 14/12/2021 19:03, siwilson wrote:
> > On 14/12/2021 18:58, ogden wrote:
> >> Stephen Packer wrote:
> >>> siwilson wrote:
> >>>> You should try a modern induction hob. Amazing bit of kit. Will boil
> >>>> water faster than an electric kettle (ours goes up to 11), and you can
> >>>> instantly turn it down to a simmer.
> >>>
> >>> I think we're all going to have to move to this sooner or later.
> >>>
> >>> And... damn it... no more camping gas!
> >>
> >> A 75 kWh Tesla battery holds enough energy to boil... *does sums*...
> >> 800 litres of water. I think we'll cope.
> >>
> >> Not much use for burning sausages on my Weber Q though.
> >>
> >
> > The newly acquired gin palace has an external connector to plug one of
> > those in.
> >
> <Googles> portable-ish gas bbq's aren't cheap are they?
>

Second hand market is good, especially at this time of year.

If you want real charcoal then the Weber Go Anywhere or Thuros T1 are a couple of gems to keep an eye out for, the latter having more accessories than a KTM dealership.

On Wednesday, 15 December 2021 at 00:03:06 UTC, Boots wrote:

> Watched a demo / proof of concept video of continuos charging via wireless.
> Early days but in theory it would vastly extend the range of delivery vehicles
> since the main routes and the stops would all be topping up the battery leaving
> only side roads etc to be a drain as it were.

I looked at that (for phones) some years ago and it seemed (at that time) to be
relatively inefficient.

On 14/12/2021 23:49, Boots wrote:
>
> No piped gas, comes in 12kg bottles that arrive on the back of a small
> motorcycle a Honda cub or clone of and live under the worktop Can't see any
> electric taking off big time when a lot of the cooking is in a Wok.

You can get electric woks.

On 15/12/2021 08:40, Ace wrote:
> On Tue, 14 Dec 2021 23:11:31 +0000, Mike Fleming <mike@tauzero.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> On 14/12/2021 11:23, Stephen Packer wrote:
>
>>> Isn't a synthetic hydrocarbon going to have emission issues?
>>
>> AIUI, it's synthesised from CO2 and H2O, so it's a carbon-neutral
>> process
>
> Always assuming it's done by using carbon-neutral elctricity, of
> course.
>
> That's obvious, I'm sure, but often seems to get overlooked, as it is
> in the case of EVs. The motor industry's headlong push towards them
> without the world moving at the same pace towards carbon-neutral
> generation is actually quite worrying.
>
> Put simply, if you're using hydrocarbons to generate the power in the
> first place the overal emissions will be significantly higher than
> just burning petrol directly in the vehicle.

The UK seems to be doing reasonably well, at about a third of energy
being supplied by renewables. I just hope progress hasn't stalled.

On 15/12/2021 12:13, Mike Fleming wrote:
> On 14/12/2021 23:49, Boots wrote:
>>
>> No piped gas, comes in 12kg bottles that arrive on the back of a small
>> motorcycle a Honda cub or clone of and live under the worktop Can't
>> see any
>> electric taking off big time when a lot of the cooking is in a Wok.
>
> You can get electric woks.

I'm sure he wuld love one, and then the elctric to use it would be
useful as well.

--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly"
http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/
There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/

Boots <news@millhouse-communications.co.uk> wrote in
news:6enn8i-tof.ln1@bilbo.eternal-september.org:

> On 15/12/2021 03:37 Pipl penned these words:
>>> The other inconvenient truth is that Li-xxx batteries are a
>>> *terrible* solution for road transport.
>> They're not great for general use. But for a regular commute or
>> driving around town only they're fine, so long as you can charge up
>> overnight. Which admittedly would be a problem for many.
>>
>
> Watched a demo / proof of concept video of continuos charging via
> wireless. Early days but in theory it would vastly extend the range of
> delivery vehicles since the main routes and the stops would all be
> topping up the battery leaving only side roads etc to be a drain as it
> were.
>

IIRC, when the UKRM OAP group were wandering around Orl�ans we saw bus
stops with contactless chargers. Certainly makes sense for buses which will
have a defined route with fixed stops. That was 2017 I think.