On Sun, 22 Oct 2023 14:29:51 +0100
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Sun, 22 Oct 2023 07:35:04 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>If the EL doesn't eventually go further than Abbey Wood I wonder if they'll
>>retrofit (some of) the fleet with 3rd rail or extend the overhead? I imagine
>>the former would be a lot cheaper and less hassle but perhaps OTOH a 25KV
>link
>>across london would be useful.
>
>I don't think there's any appetite or budget for extending the EL beyond Abbey
>Wood. What much more likely to happen in
>that area is a DLR extension from Beckton to Thamesmead, and possibly to Abbey
>Wood.

While the DLR is fine for pottering around Docklands, its not the most
comfortable of systems and I don't know how many people would use it from
Abbey Wood as an alternative to the EL (unless of course the EL is screwed
as usual but one would hope on its own dedicated branch they might keep
some semblance of a service running).

In message <uh0vvs$1rv16$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:58:35 on Sat, 21 Oct
2023, Bob <bob@domain.com> remarked:
>On 21.10.23 17:47, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <sfb7ji15rti44qr7etbumvg87nv1hg6na4@4ax.com>, at 11:55:51
>>on Sat, 21 Oct 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> On Sat, 21 Oct 2023 11:23:57 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In message <ugr24p$a3q5$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:58:33 on Thu, 19 Oct
>>>> 2023, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>> On 19/10/2023 11:49, Recliner wrote:
>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F8yheg6XAAA-_LG?format=jpg&name=medium
>>>>>>  From
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://dataportal.orr.gov.uk/media/g3xjpk2p/infrastructure-and-assets-
>>>>>> 2022-23.pdf
>>>>>
>>>>> Elizabeth line stock already over 6 years old, how time flies!
>>>>
>>>> Bear in mind the tunnels were very late, and so the trains sat in the
>>>> depots for years, and the drivers they'd hired sat in the canteen for
>>>> years.
>>>
>>> Huh?  They were running in service more than six years ago.
>> Some might have been, but the majority were waiting for the core and
>>the
>> Heathrow/Ebbsfleet spurs to be commissioned. July 2020 and May 2022
>>respectively.
>
>They'll struggle to get to Ebbsfleet as they have neither 3rd rail
>electrical equipment nor TVM-430 signalling equipment.

Obviously I meant Abbey Wood.
--
Roland Perry

In message <dkm8jitgmc99fg1clahm5q7f97a1cpovmj@4ax.com>, at 00:13:50 on
Sun, 22 Oct 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>On Sat, 21 Oct 2023 16:47:31 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>
>>In message <sfb7ji15rti44qr7etbumvg87nv1hg6na4@4ax.com>, at 11:55:51 on
>>Sat, 21 Oct 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>On Sat, 21 Oct 2023 11:23:57 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>>In message <ugr24p$a3q5$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:58:33 on Thu, 19 Oct
>>>>2023, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>On 19/10/2023 11:49, Recliner wrote:
>>
>>>>>> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F8yheg6XAAA-_LG?format=jpg&name=medium
>>>>>> From
>>>>>>
>>>>>>https://dataportal.orr.gov.uk/media/g3xjpk2p/infrastructure-and-assets-
>>>>>>2022-23.pdf
>>>>>
>>>>>Elizabeth line stock already over 6 years old, how time flies!
>>>>
>>>>Bear in mind the tunnels were very late, and so the trains sat in the
>>>>depots for years, and the drivers they'd hired sat in the canteen for
>>>>years.
>>>
>>>Huh? They were running in service more than six years ago.
>>
>>Some might have been, but the majority were waiting for the core and the
>>Heathrow/Ebbsfleet spurs to be commissioned. July 2020 and May 2022
>>respectively.
>
>You obviously know much more about the Elizabeth Line than I do. Please
>could you provide some information about the secret Ebbsfleet spur
>which apparently opened last year, which I thought was just an item on
>a wish list.

It's a typo, get over it.

But the main point about delays in deploying the trains hasn't been
successfully challenged, so that's OK.
--
Roland Perry

In message <uh30b3$2d65c$5@dont-email.me>, at 11:16:51 on Sun, 22 Oct
2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>> In message <uh0tm9$1rgc8$5@dont-email.me>, at 16:19:22 on Sat, 21 Oct
>> 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <uh0htt$1osnu$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:58:36 on Sat, 21 Oct
>>>> 2023, Bob <bob@domain.com> remarked:
>>>>> On 21.10.23 12:23, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>> In message <ugr24p$a3q5$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:58:33 on Thu, 19 Oct
>>>>>> 2023, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>> On 19/10/2023 11:49, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>>>  https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F8yheg6XAAA-_LG?format=jpg&name=medium
>>>>>>>>  From
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://dataportal.orr.gov.uk/media/g3xjpk2p/infrastructure-and-assets-
>>>>>>>> 2022-23.pdf
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Elizabeth line stock already over 6 years old, how time flies!
>>>>
>>>>>> Bear in mind the tunnels were very late, and so the trains sat in
>>>>>> the depots for years, and the drivers they'd hired sat in the canteen
>>>>>> for years.
>>>>>
>>>>> The class 345s operated Shenfield-Liverpool St from 2017 and
>>>>> Paddington-Reading from 2019, they have certainly not
>>>>
>>>> all
>>>>
>>>>> been sitting idle.
>>>>
>>>> But a lot of them were.
>>>
>>> You think they were all delivered as 9-car units on day one?
>>
>> No.
>>
>>> And do you really think a lot of units actually sat idle for several years?
>>
>> Yes.
>>
>>> They were actually put into service more speedily than most other Aventra
>>> fleets.
>>
>> "You should see the other guy" is never a very convincing epitaph.
>
>Perhaps you would be kind enough to give us your analysis of the multi-year
>delays getting the 720s into service on GA? Why did they take so much
>longer than the first Aventra fleet?

"You should see the other guy" is never a very convincing epitaph.

Although delays on GA were nothing to do with most of the lines the
trains were supposed to be running on, not yet being commissioned.
--
Roland Perry

<Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 22 Oct 2023 14:29:51 +0100
> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sun, 22 Oct 2023 07:35:04 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>> If the EL doesn't eventually go further than Abbey Wood I wonder if they'll
>>> retrofit (some of) the fleet with 3rd rail or extend the overhead? I imagine
>>> the former would be a lot cheaper and less hassle but perhaps OTOH a 25KV
>> link
>>> across london would be useful.
>>
>> I don't think there's any appetite or budget for extending the EL beyond Abbey
>> Wood. What much more likely to happen in
>> that area is a DLR extension from Beckton to Thamesmead, and possibly to Abbey
>> Wood.
>
> While the DLR is fine for pottering around Docklands, its not the most
> comfortable of systems and I don't know how many people would use it from
> Abbey Wood as an alternative to the EL (unless of course the EL is screwed
> as usual but one would hope on its own dedicated branch they might keep
> some semblance of a service running).

You misunderstood. It's not intended as an alternative to the EL, but a
potential feeder to it. Thamesmead is badly served by public transport, so
the idea is to provide good quality links between it, Abbey Wood and the
north-of-Thames public transport network.

Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
> In message <uh30b3$2d65c$5@dont-email.me>, at 11:16:51 on Sun, 22 Oct
> 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <uh0tm9$1rgc8$5@dont-email.me>, at 16:19:22 on Sat, 21 Oct
>>> 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <uh0htt$1osnu$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:58:36 on Sat, 21 Oct
>>>>> 2023, Bob <bob@domain.com> remarked:
>>>>>> On 21.10.23 12:23, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <ugr24p$a3q5$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:58:33 on Thu, 19 Oct
>>>>>>> 2023, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>>> On 19/10/2023 11:49, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>>>>  https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F8yheg6XAAA-_LG?format=jpg&name=medium
>>>>>>>>>  From
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://dataportal.orr.gov.uk/media/g3xjpk2p/infrastructure-and-assets-
>>>>>>>>> 2022-23.pdf
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Elizabeth line stock already over 6 years old, how time flies!
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bear in mind the tunnels were very late, and so the trains sat in
>>>>>>> the depots for years, and the drivers they'd hired sat in the canteen
>>>>>>> for years.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The class 345s operated Shenfield-Liverpool St from 2017 and
>>>>>> Paddington-Reading from 2019, they have certainly not
>>>>>
>>>>> all
>>>>>
>>>>>> been sitting idle.
>>>>>
>>>>> But a lot of them were.
>>>>
>>>> You think they were all delivered as 9-car units on day one?
>>>
>>> No.
>>>
>>>> And do you really think a lot of units actually sat idle for several years?
>>>
>>> Yes.
>>>
>>>> They were actually put into service more speedily than most other Aventra
>>>> fleets.
>>>
>>> "You should see the other guy" is never a very convincing epitaph.
>>
>> Perhaps you would be kind enough to give us your analysis of the multi-year
>> delays getting the 720s into service on GA? Why did they take so much
>> longer than the first Aventra fleet?
>
> "You should see the other guy" is never a very convincing epitaph.
>
> Although delays on GA were nothing to do with most of the lines the
> trains were supposed to be running on, not yet being commissioned.

Huh? Most of the lines the 345s run on were commissioned many years before
the trains, which went into service quicker than most Aventra fleets.

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>> In message <uh0tm9$1rgc8$5@dont-email.me>, at 16:19:22 on Sat, 21 Oct
>> 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <uh0htt$1osnu$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:58:36 on Sat, 21 Oct
>>>> 2023, Bob <bob@domain.com> remarked:
>>>>> On 21.10.23 12:23, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>> In message <ugr24p$a3q5$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:58:33 on Thu, 19 Oct
>>>>>> 2023, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>> On 19/10/2023 11:49, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>>>  https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F8yheg6XAAA-_LG?format=jpg&name=medium
>>>>>>>>  From
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://dataportal.orr.gov.uk/media/g3xjpk2p/infrastructure-and-assets-
>>>>>>>> 2022-23.pdf
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Elizabeth line stock already over 6 years old, how time flies!
>>>>
>>>>>> Bear in mind the tunnels were very late, and so the trains sat in
>>>>>> the depots for years, and the drivers they'd hired sat in the canteen
>>>>>> for years.
>>>>>
>>>>> The class 345s operated Shenfield-Liverpool St from 2017 and
>>>>> Paddington-Reading from 2019, they have certainly not
>>>>
>>>> all
>>>>
>>>>> been sitting idle.
>>>>
>>>> But a lot of them were.
>>>
>>> You think they were all delivered as 9-car units on day one?
>>
>> No.
>>
>>> And do you really think a lot of units actually sat idle for several years?
>>
>> Yes.
>>
>>> They were actually put into service more speedily than most other Aventra
>>> fleets.
>>
>> "You should see the other guy" is never a very convincing epitaph.
>
> Perhaps you would be kind enough to give us your analysis of the multi-year
> delays getting the 720s into service on GA? Why did they take so much
> longer than the first Aventra fleet?
>
>

ISTR that the 345s use Electrostar software, whereas the other Aventras use
new software?

Anna Noyd-Dryver

Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
> In message <uh30b3$2d65c$5@dont-email.me>, at 11:16:51 on Sun, 22 Oct
> 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <uh0tm9$1rgc8$5@dont-email.me>, at 16:19:22 on Sat, 21 Oct
>>> 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <uh0htt$1osnu$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:58:36 on Sat, 21 Oct
>>>>> 2023, Bob <bob@domain.com> remarked:
>>>>>> On 21.10.23 12:23, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <ugr24p$a3q5$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:58:33 on Thu, 19 Oct
>>>>>>> 2023, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>>> On 19/10/2023 11:49, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>>>>  https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F8yheg6XAAA-_LG?format=jpg&name=medium
>>>>>>>>>  From
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://dataportal.orr.gov.uk/media/g3xjpk2p/infrastructure-and-assets-
>>>>>>>>> 2022-23.pdf
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Elizabeth line stock already over 6 years old, how time flies!
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bear in mind the tunnels were very late, and so the trains sat in
>>>>>>> the depots for years, and the drivers they'd hired sat in the canteen
>>>>>>> for years.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The class 345s operated Shenfield-Liverpool St from 2017 and
>>>>>> Paddington-Reading from 2019, they have certainly not
>>>>>
>>>>> all
>>>>>
>>>>>> been sitting idle.
>>>>>
>>>>> But a lot of them were.
>>>>
>>>> You think they were all delivered as 9-car units on day one?
>>>
>>> No.
>>>
>>>> And do you really think a lot of units actually sat idle for several years?
>>>
>>> Yes.
>>>
>>>> They were actually put into service more speedily than most other Aventra
>>>> fleets.
>>>
>>> "You should see the other guy" is never a very convincing epitaph.
>>
>> Perhaps you would be kind enough to give us your analysis of the multi-year
>> delays getting the 720s into service on GA? Why did they take so much
>> longer than the first Aventra fleet?
>
> "You should see the other guy" is never a very convincing epitaph.
>
> Although delays on GA were nothing to do with most of the lines the
> trains were supposed to be running on, not yet being commissioned.

Huh? Most of the lines the 345s run on were commissioned many years before
the trains, which went into service quicker than most Aventra fleets.

Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <uh0tm9$1rgc8$5@dont-email.me>, at 16:19:22 on Sat, 21 Oct
>>> 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <uh0htt$1osnu$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:58:36 on Sat, 21 Oct
>>>>> 2023, Bob <bob@domain.com> remarked:
>>>>>> On 21.10.23 12:23, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <ugr24p$a3q5$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:58:33 on Thu, 19 Oct
>>>>>>> 2023, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>>> On 19/10/2023 11:49, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>>>>  https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F8yheg6XAAA-_LG?format=jpg&name=medium
>>>>>>>>>  From
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://dataportal.orr.gov.uk/media/g3xjpk2p/infrastructure-and-assets-
>>>>>>>>> 2022-23.pdf
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Elizabeth line stock already over 6 years old, how time flies!
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bear in mind the tunnels were very late, and so the trains sat in
>>>>>>> the depots for years, and the drivers they'd hired sat in the canteen
>>>>>>> for years.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The class 345s operated Shenfield-Liverpool St from 2017 and
>>>>>> Paddington-Reading from 2019, they have certainly not
>>>>>
>>>>> all
>>>>>
>>>>>> been sitting idle.
>>>>>
>>>>> But a lot of them were.
>>>>
>>>> You think they were all delivered as 9-car units on day one?
>>>
>>> No.
>>>
>>>> And do you really think a lot of units actually sat idle for several years?
>>>
>>> Yes.
>>>
>>>> They were actually put into service more speedily than most other Aventra
>>>> fleets.
>>>
>>> "You should see the other guy" is never a very convincing epitaph.
>>
>> Perhaps you would be kind enough to give us your analysis of the multi-year
>> delays getting the 720s into service on GA? Why did they take so much
>> longer than the first Aventra fleet?
>>
>>
>
> ISTR that the 345s use Electrostar software, whereas the other Aventras use
> new software?

Yes, I believe the 345s use a heavily patched version of the final
Electrostar software, while subsequent Aventras use the all-new platform
that wasn't ready in time for the 345s.

But that doesn't explain the long delays to the 720s, when other Aventra
fleets using the new software platform had entered service years before. I
don't know of any major hardware issues.

Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
> In message <dkm8jitgmc99fg1clahm5q7f97a1cpovmj@4ax.com>, at 00:13:50 on
> Sun, 22 Oct 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>> On Sat, 21 Oct 2023 16:47:31 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> In message <sfb7ji15rti44qr7etbumvg87nv1hg6na4@4ax.com>, at 11:55:51 on
>>> Sat, 21 Oct 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> On Sat, 21 Oct 2023 11:23:57 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In message <ugr24p$a3q5$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:58:33 on Thu, 19 Oct
>>>>> 2023, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>> On 19/10/2023 11:49, Recliner wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F8yheg6XAAA-_LG?format=jpg&name=medium
>>>>>>> From
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://dataportal.orr.gov.uk/media/g3xjpk2p/infrastructure-and-assets-
>>>>>>> 2022-23.pdf
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Elizabeth line stock already over 6 years old, how time flies!
>>>>>
>>>>> Bear in mind the tunnels were very late, and so the trains sat in the
>>>>> depots for years, and the drivers they'd hired sat in the canteen for
>>>>> years.
>>>>
>>>> Huh? They were running in service more than six years ago.
>>>
>>> Some might have been, but the majority were waiting for the core and the
>>> Heathrow/Ebbsfleet spurs to be commissioned. July 2020 and May 2022
>>> respectively.
>>
>> You obviously know much more about the Elizabeth Line than I do. Please
>> could you provide some information about the secret Ebbsfleet spur
>> which apparently opened last year, which I thought was just an item on
>> a wish list.
>
> It's a typo, get over it.

It's not a typo. It again exposes your lack of knowledge about the EL.

>
> But the main point about delays in deploying the trains hasn't been
> successfully challenged, so that's OK.

As has been repeatedly pointed out to you, the 345s were the Aventra fleet
deployed with the least delays. Why can't you explain why your local 720s
were delayed so long?

Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
> In message <dkm8jitgmc99fg1clahm5q7f97a1cpovmj@4ax.com>, at 00:13:50 on
> Sun, 22 Oct 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>> On Sat, 21 Oct 2023 16:47:31 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> In message <sfb7ji15rti44qr7etbumvg87nv1hg6na4@4ax.com>, at 11:55:51 on
>>> Sat, 21 Oct 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> On Sat, 21 Oct 2023 11:23:57 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In message <ugr24p$a3q5$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:58:33 on Thu, 19 Oct
>>>>> 2023, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>> On 19/10/2023 11:49, Recliner wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F8yheg6XAAA-_LG?format=jpg&name=medium
>>>>>>> From
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://dataportal.orr.gov.uk/media/g3xjpk2p/infrastructure-and-assets-
>>>>>>> 2022-23.pdf
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Elizabeth line stock already over 6 years old, how time flies!
>>>>>
>>>>> Bear in mind the tunnels were very late, and so the trains sat in the
>>>>> depots for years, and the drivers they'd hired sat in the canteen for
>>>>> years.
>>>>
>>>> Huh? They were running in service more than six years ago.
>>>
>>> Some might have been, but the majority were waiting for the core and the
>>> Heathrow/Ebbsfleet spurs to be commissioned. July 2020 and May 2022
>>> respectively.
>>
>> You obviously know much more about the Elizabeth Line than I do. Please
>> could you provide some information about the secret Ebbsfleet spur
>> which apparently opened last year, which I thought was just an item on
>> a wish list.
>
> It's a typo, get over it.

It's not a typo. It again exposes your lack of knowledge about the EL.

>
> But the main point about delays in deploying the trains hasn't been
> successfully challenged, so that's OK.

As has been repeatedly pointed out to you, the 345s were the Aventra fleet
deployed with the least delays. Why can't you explain why your local 720s
were delayed so long?

On Sun, 22 Oct 2023 15:48:18 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
><Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>> On Sun, 22 Oct 2023 14:29:51 +0100
>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Sun, 22 Oct 2023 07:35:04 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>>> If the EL doesn't eventually go further than Abbey Wood I wonder if they'll
>
>>>> retrofit (some of) the fleet with 3rd rail or extend the overhead? I
>imagine
>>>> the former would be a lot cheaper and less hassle but perhaps OTOH a 25KV
>>> link
>>>> across london would be useful.
>>>
>>> I don't think there's any appetite or budget for extending the EL beyond
>Abbey
>>> Wood. What much more likely to happen in
>>> that area is a DLR extension from Beckton to Thamesmead, and possibly to
>Abbey
>>> Wood.
>>
>> While the DLR is fine for pottering around Docklands, its not the most
>> comfortable of systems and I don't know how many people would use it from
>> Abbey Wood as an alternative to the EL (unless of course the EL is screwed
>> as usual but one would hope on its own dedicated branch they might keep
>> some semblance of a service running).
>
>You misunderstood. It's not intended as an alternative to the EL, but a
>potential feeder to it. Thamesmead is badly served by public transport, so
>the idea is to provide good quality links between it, Abbey Wood and the
>north-of-Thames public transport network.

Fair enough. Though I can't help thinking the DLR is already stretched a
a bit thin. Someones needs to decide if its a posh tram or a full fat metro
system because it can't do both well.

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>> In message <uh0tm9$1rgc8$5@dont-email.me>, at 16:19:22 on Sat, 21 Oct
>> 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <uh0htt$1osnu$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:58:36 on Sat, 21 Oct
>>>> 2023, Bob <bob@domain.com> remarked:
>>>>> On 21.10.23 12:23, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>> In message <ugr24p$a3q5$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:58:33 on Thu, 19 Oct
>>>>>> 2023, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>> On 19/10/2023 11:49, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>>>  https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F8yheg6XAAA-_LG?format=jpg&name=medium
>>>>>>>>  From
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://dataportal.orr.gov.uk/media/g3xjpk2p/infrastructure-and-assets-
>>>>>>>> 2022-23.pdf
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Elizabeth line stock already over 6 years old, how time flies!
>>>>
>>>>>> Bear in mind the tunnels were very late, and so the trains sat in
>>>>>> the depots for years, and the drivers they'd hired sat in the canteen
>>>>>> for years.
>>>>>
>>>>> The class 345s operated Shenfield-Liverpool St from 2017 and
>>>>> Paddington-Reading from 2019, they have certainly not
>>>>
>>>> all
>>>>
>>>>> been sitting idle.
>>>>
>>>> But a lot of them were.
>>>
>>> You think they were all delivered as 9-car units on day one?
>>
>> No.
>>
>>> And do you really think a lot of units actually sat idle for several years?
>>
>> Yes.
>>
>>> They were actually put into service more speedily than most other Aventra
>>> fleets.
>>
>> "You should see the other guy" is never a very convincing epitaph.
>
> Perhaps you would be kind enough to give us your analysis of the multi-year
> delays getting the 720s into service on GA? Why did they take so much
> longer than the first Aventra fleet?
>
>

ISTR that the 345s use Electrostar software, whereas the other Aventras use
new software?

Anna Noyd-Dryver

On Sun, 22 Oct 2023 16:14:49 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
<recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:

>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>> In message <uh30b3$2d65c$5@dont-email.me>, at 11:16:51 on Sun, 22 Oct
>> 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <uh0tm9$1rgc8$5@dont-email.me>, at 16:19:22 on Sat, 21 Oct
>>>> 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <uh0htt$1osnu$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:58:36 on Sat, 21 Oct
>>>>>> 2023, Bob <bob@domain.com> remarked:
>>>>>>> On 21.10.23 12:23, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>>> In message <ugr24p$a3q5$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:58:33 on Thu, 19 Oct
>>>>>>>> 2023, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>>>> On 19/10/2023 11:49, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>  https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F8yheg6XAAA-_LG?format=jpg&name=medium
>>>>>>>>>>  From
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> https://dataportal.orr.gov.uk/media/g3xjpk2p/infrastructure-and-assets-
>>>>>>>>>> 2022-23.pdf
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Elizabeth line stock already over 6 years old, how time flies!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Bear in mind the tunnels were very late, and so the trains sat in
>>>>>>>> the depots for years, and the drivers they'd hired sat in the canteen
>>>>>>>> for years.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The class 345s operated Shenfield-Liverpool St from 2017 and
>>>>>>> Paddington-Reading from 2019, they have certainly not
>>>>>>
>>>>>> all
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> been sitting idle.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But a lot of them were.
>>>>>
>>>>> You think they were all delivered as 9-car units on day one?
>>>>
>>>> No.
>>>>
>>>>> And do you really think a lot of units actually sat idle for several years?
>>>>
>>>> Yes.
>>>>
>>>>> They were actually put into service more speedily than most other Aventra
>>>>> fleets.
>>>>
>>>> "You should see the other guy" is never a very convincing epitaph.
>>>
>>> Perhaps you would be kind enough to give us your analysis of the multi-year
>>> delays getting the 720s into service on GA? Why did they take so much
>>> longer than the first Aventra fleet?
>>
>> "You should see the other guy" is never a very convincing epitaph.
>>
>> Although delays on GA were nothing to do with most of the lines the
>> trains were supposed to be running on, not yet being commissioned.
>
>Huh? Most of the lines the 345s run on were commissioned many years before
>the trains, which went into service quicker than most Aventra fleets.

Please be patient -- let E-S work b4 thumping *Send* again...

Nobody <jock@soccer.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 22 Oct 2023 16:14:49 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <uh30b3$2d65c$5@dont-email.me>, at 11:16:51 on Sun, 22 Oct
>>> 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <uh0tm9$1rgc8$5@dont-email.me>, at 16:19:22 on Sat, 21 Oct
>>>>> 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <uh0htt$1osnu$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:58:36 on Sat, 21 Oct
>>>>>>> 2023, Bob <bob@domain.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>> On 21.10.23 12:23, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>>>> In message <ugr24p$a3q5$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:58:33 on Thu, 19 Oct
>>>>>>>>> 2023, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>> On 19/10/2023 11:49, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>  https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F8yheg6XAAA-_LG?format=jpg&name=medium
>>>>>>>>>>>  From
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> https://dataportal.orr.gov.uk/media/g3xjpk2p/infrastructure-and-assets-
>>>>>>>>>>> 2022-23.pdf
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Elizabeth line stock already over 6 years old, how time flies!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Bear in mind the tunnels were very late, and so the trains sat in
>>>>>>>>> the depots for years, and the drivers they'd hired sat in the canteen
>>>>>>>>> for years.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The class 345s operated Shenfield-Liverpool St from 2017 and
>>>>>>>> Paddington-Reading from 2019, they have certainly not
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> been sitting idle.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But a lot of them were.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You think they were all delivered as 9-car units on day one?
>>>>>
>>>>> No.
>>>>>
>>>>>> And do you really think a lot of units actually sat idle for several years?
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes.
>>>>>
>>>>>> They were actually put into service more speedily than most other Aventra
>>>>>> fleets.
>>>>>
>>>>> "You should see the other guy" is never a very convincing epitaph.
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps you would be kind enough to give us your analysis of the multi-year
>>>> delays getting the 720s into service on GA? Why did they take so much
>>>> longer than the first Aventra fleet?
>>>
>>> "You should see the other guy" is never a very convincing epitaph.
>>>
>>> Although delays on GA were nothing to do with most of the lines the
>>> trains were supposed to be running on, not yet being commissioned.
>>
>> Huh? Most of the lines the 345s run on were commissioned many years before
>> the trains, which went into service quicker than most Aventra fleets.
>
> Please be patient -- let E-S work b4 thumping *Send* again...
>

My experience of ES and NewsTap yesterday is that the sending process
stalls, the user is unaware that the post has actually been sent
successfully by also remains in the outbox marked as unsent.

Anna Noyd-Dryver

Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
> Nobody <jock@soccer.com> wrote:
>> On Sun, 22 Oct 2023 16:14:49 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <uh30b3$2d65c$5@dont-email.me>, at 11:16:51 on Sun, 22 Oct
>>>> 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <uh0tm9$1rgc8$5@dont-email.me>, at 16:19:22 on Sat, 21 Oct
>>>>>> 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>> In message <uh0htt$1osnu$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:58:36 on Sat, 21 Oct
>>>>>>>> 2023, Bob <bob@domain.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>> On 21.10.23 12:23, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> In message <ugr24p$a3q5$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:58:33 on Thu, 19 Oct
>>>>>>>>>> 2023, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 19/10/2023 11:49, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>  https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F8yheg6XAAA-_LG?format=jpg&name=medium
>>>>>>>>>>>>  From
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://dataportal.orr.gov.uk/media/g3xjpk2p/infrastructure-and-assets-
>>>>>>>>>>>> 2022-23.pdf
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Elizabeth line stock already over 6 years old, how time flies!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Bear in mind the tunnels were very late, and so the trains sat in
>>>>>>>>>> the depots for years, and the drivers they'd hired sat in the canteen
>>>>>>>>>> for years.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The class 345s operated Shenfield-Liverpool St from 2017 and
>>>>>>>>> Paddington-Reading from 2019, they have certainly not
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> been sitting idle.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But a lot of them were.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You think they were all delivered as 9-car units on day one?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And do you really think a lot of units actually sat idle for several years?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> They were actually put into service more speedily than most other Aventra
>>>>>>> fleets.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "You should see the other guy" is never a very convincing epitaph.
>>>>>
>>>>> Perhaps you would be kind enough to give us your analysis of the multi-year
>>>>> delays getting the 720s into service on GA? Why did they take so much
>>>>> longer than the first Aventra fleet?
>>>>
>>>> "You should see the other guy" is never a very convincing epitaph.
>>>>
>>>> Although delays on GA were nothing to do with most of the lines the
>>>> trains were supposed to be running on, not yet being commissioned.
>>>
>>> Huh? Most of the lines the 345s run on were commissioned many years before
>>> the trains, which went into service quicker than most Aventra fleets.
>>
>> Please be patient -- let E-S work b4 thumping *Send* again...
>>
>
> My experience of ES and NewsTap yesterday is that the sending process
> stalls, the user is unaware that the post has actually been sent
> successfully by also remains in the outbox marked as unsent.

<AOL>

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

In message <uh3i96$2h4qg$6@dont-email.me>, at 16:23:02 on Sun, 22 Oct
2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>> In message <dkm8jitgmc99fg1clahm5q7f97a1cpovmj@4ax.com>, at 00:13:50 on
>> Sun, 22 Oct 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> On Sat, 21 Oct 2023 16:47:31 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In message <sfb7ji15rti44qr7etbumvg87nv1hg6na4@4ax.com>, at 11:55:51 on
>>>> Sat, 21 Oct 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>> On Sat, 21 Oct 2023 11:23:57 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> In message <ugr24p$a3q5$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:58:33 on Thu, 19 Oct
>>>>>> 2023, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>> On 19/10/2023 11:49, Recliner wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F8yheg6XAAA-_LG?format=jpg&name=medium
>>>>>>>> From
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://dataportal.orr.gov.uk/media/g3xjpk2p/infrastructure-and-assets-
>>>>>>>> 2022-23.pdf
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Elizabeth line stock already over 6 years old, how time flies!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bear in mind the tunnels were very late, and so the trains sat in the
>>>>>> depots for years, and the drivers they'd hired sat in the canteen for
>>>>>> years.
>>>>>
>>>>> Huh? They were running in service more than six years ago.
>>>>
>>>> Some might have been, but the majority were waiting for the core and the
>>>> Heathrow/Ebbsfleet spurs to be commissioned. July 2020 and May 2022
>>>> respectively.
>>>
>>> You obviously know much more about the Elizabeth Line than I do. Please
>>> could you provide some information about the secret Ebbsfleet spur
>>> which apparently opened last year, which I thought was just an item on
>>> a wish list.
>>
>> It's a typo, get over it.
>
>It's not a typo. It again exposes your lack of knowledge about the EL.

It's a typo, get over it. I no longer have the time to fact check
everything I post (and you never have) so when my brain said "eastern
extremity" my fingers typed Ebbsfleet, not Abbey Wood. At least they are
both in Kent and I didn't type "Shenfield".

>> But the main point about delays in deploying the trains hasn't been
>> successfully challenged, so that's OK.
>
>As has been repeatedly pointed out to you, the 345s were the Aventra fleet
>deployed with the least delays. Why can't you explain why your local 720s
>were delayed so long?

Because it has absolutely zero, zilch, nada relevance to the Elizabeth
Line ,which were a lack of track, not duff trains.
--
Roland Perry

In message <uh3gm0$2gq9a$5@dont-email.me>, at 15:55:44 on Sun, 22 Oct
2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>> In message <uh30b3$2d65c$5@dont-email.me>, at 11:16:51 on Sun, 22 Oct
>> 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <uh0tm9$1rgc8$5@dont-email.me>, at 16:19:22 on Sat, 21 Oct
>>>> 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <uh0htt$1osnu$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:58:36 on Sat, 21 Oct
>>>>>> 2023, Bob <bob@domain.com> remarked:
>>>>>>> On 21.10.23 12:23, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>>> In message <ugr24p$a3q5$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:58:33 on Thu, 19 Oct
>>>>>>>> 2023, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>>>> On 19/10/2023 11:49, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>  https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F8yheg6XAAA-_LG?format=jpg&name=medium
>>>>>>>>>>  From
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>https://dataportal.orr.gov.uk/media/g3xjpk2p/infrastructure-and-assets-
>>>>>>>>>> 2022-23.pdf
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Elizabeth line stock already over 6 years old, how time flies!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Bear in mind the tunnels were very late, and so the trains sat in
>>>>>>>> the depots for years, and the drivers they'd hired sat in the canteen
>>>>>>>> for years.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The class 345s operated Shenfield-Liverpool St from 2017 and
>>>>>>> Paddington-Reading from 2019, they have certainly not
>>>>>>
>>>>>> all
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> been sitting idle.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But a lot of them were.
>>>>>
>>>>> You think they were all delivered as 9-car units on day one?
>>>>
>>>> No.
>>>>
>>>>> And do you really think a lot of units actually sat idle for
>>>>>several years?
>>>>
>>>> Yes.
>>>>
>>>>> They were actually put into service more speedily than most other Aventra
>>>>> fleets.
>>>>
>>>> "You should see the other guy" is never a very convincing epitaph.
>>>
>>> Perhaps you would be kind enough to give us your analysis of the multi-year
>>> delays getting the 720s into service on GA? Why did they take so much
>>> longer than the first Aventra fleet?
>>
>> "You should see the other guy" is never a very convincing epitaph.
>>
>> Although delays on GA were nothing to do with most of the lines the
>> trains were supposed to be running on, not yet being commissioned.
>
>Huh? Most of the lines the 345s run on were commissioned many years before
>the trains, which went into service quicker than most Aventra fleets.

The Elizabeth Line isn't "most of them". Are you being deliberately
obtuse?
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
> In message <dkm8jitgmc99fg1clahm5q7f97a1cpovmj@4ax.com>, at 00:13:50 on
> Sun, 22 Oct 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>> On Sat, 21 Oct 2023 16:47:31 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> In message <sfb7ji15rti44qr7etbumvg87nv1hg6na4@4ax.com>, at 11:55:51 on
>>> Sat, 21 Oct 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> On Sat, 21 Oct 2023 11:23:57 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In message <ugr24p$a3q5$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:58:33 on Thu, 19 Oct
>>>>> 2023, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>> On 19/10/2023 11:49, Recliner wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F8yheg6XAAA-_LG?format=jpg&name=medium
>>>>>>> From
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://dataportal.orr.gov.uk/media/g3xjpk2p/infrastructure-and-assets-
>>>>>>> 2022-23.pdf
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Elizabeth line stock already over 6 years old, how time flies!
>>>>>
>>>>> Bear in mind the tunnels were very late, and so the trains sat in the
>>>>> depots for years, and the drivers they'd hired sat in the canteen for
>>>>> years.
>>>>
>>>> Huh? They were running in service more than six years ago.
>>>
>>> Some might have been, but the majority were waiting for the core and the
>>> Heathrow/Ebbsfleet spurs to be commissioned. July 2020 and May 2022
>>> respectively.
>>
>> You obviously know much more about the Elizabeth Line than I do. Please
>> could you provide some information about the secret Ebbsfleet spur
>> which apparently opened last year, which I thought was just an item on
>> a wish list.
>
> It's a typo, get over it.

It's not a typo. It again exposes your lack of knowledge about the EL.

>
> But the main point about delays in deploying the trains hasn't been
> successfully challenged, so that's OK.

As has been repeatedly pointed out to you, the 345s were the Aventra fleet
deployed with the least delays. Why can't you explain why your local 720s
were delayed so long?

In message <uh7373$3f7k7$5@dont-email.me>, at 00:30:27 on Tue, 24 Oct
2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>> In message <dkm8jitgmc99fg1clahm5q7f97a1cpovmj@4ax.com>, at 00:13:50 on
>> Sun, 22 Oct 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> On Sat, 21 Oct 2023 16:47:31 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In message <sfb7ji15rti44qr7etbumvg87nv1hg6na4@4ax.com>, at 11:55:51 on
>>>> Sat, 21 Oct 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>> On Sat, 21 Oct 2023 11:23:57 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> In message <ugr24p$a3q5$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:58:33 on Thu, 19 Oct
>>>>>> 2023, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>> On 19/10/2023 11:49, Recliner wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F8yheg6XAAA-_LG?format=jpg&name=medium
>>>>>>>> From
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://dataportal.orr.gov.uk/media/g3xjpk2p/infrastructure-and-assets-
>>>>>>>> 2022-23.pdf
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Elizabeth line stock already over 6 years old, how time flies!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bear in mind the tunnels were very late, and so the trains sat in the
>>>>>> depots for years, and the drivers they'd hired sat in the canteen for
>>>>>> years.
>>>>>
>>>>> Huh? They were running in service more than six years ago.
>>>>
>>>> Some might have been, but the majority were waiting for the core and the
>>>> Heathrow/Ebbsfleet spurs to be commissioned. July 2020 and May 2022
>>>> respectively.
>>>
>>> You obviously know much more about the Elizabeth Line than I do. Please
>>> could you provide some information about the secret Ebbsfleet spur
>>> which apparently opened last year, which I thought was just an item on
>>> a wish list.
>>
>> It's a typo, get over it.
>
>It's not a typo. It again exposes your lack of knowledge about the EL.
>
>>
>> But the main point about delays in deploying the trains hasn't been
>> successfully challenged, so that's OK.
>
>As has been repeatedly pointed out to you, the 345s were the Aventra fleet
>deployed with the least delays. Why can't you explain why your local 720s
>were delayed so long?

Posting a duplicate message at 0:30am, are you suffering from insomnia
as well as finger trouble with your usenet client?
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
> In message <uh7373$3f7k7$5@dont-email.me>, at 00:30:27 on Tue, 24 Oct
> 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <dkm8jitgmc99fg1clahm5q7f97a1cpovmj@4ax.com>, at 00:13:50 on
>>> Sun, 22 Oct 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> On Sat, 21 Oct 2023 16:47:31 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In message <sfb7ji15rti44qr7etbumvg87nv1hg6na4@4ax.com>, at 11:55:51 on
>>>>> Sat, 21 Oct 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>> On Sat, 21 Oct 2023 11:23:57 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In message <ugr24p$a3q5$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:58:33 on Thu, 19 Oct
>>>>>>> 2023, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>>> On 19/10/2023 11:49, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F8yheg6XAAA-_LG?format=jpg&name=medium
>>>>>>>>> From
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://dataportal.orr.gov.uk/media/g3xjpk2p/infrastructure-and-assets-
>>>>>>>>> 2022-23.pdf
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Elizabeth line stock already over 6 years old, how time flies!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bear in mind the tunnels were very late, and so the trains sat in the
>>>>>>> depots for years, and the drivers they'd hired sat in the canteen for
>>>>>>> years.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Huh? They were running in service more than six years ago.
>>>>>
>>>>> Some might have been, but the majority were waiting for the core and the
>>>>> Heathrow/Ebbsfleet spurs to be commissioned. July 2020 and May 2022
>>>>> respectively.
>>>>
>>>> You obviously know much more about the Elizabeth Line than I do. Please
>>>> could you provide some information about the secret Ebbsfleet spur
>>>> which apparently opened last year, which I thought was just an item on
>>>> a wish list.
>>>
>>> It's a typo, get over it.
>>
>> It's not a typo. It again exposes your lack of knowledge about the EL.
>>
>>>
>>> But the main point about delays in deploying the trains hasn't been
>>> successfully challenged, so that's OK.
>>
>> As has been repeatedly pointed out to you, the 345s were the Aventra fleet
>> deployed with the least delays. Why can't you explain why your local 720s
>> were delayed so long?
>
> Posting a duplicate message at 0:30am, are you suffering from insomnia
> as well as finger trouble with your usenet client?

You appear not to be aware of the ES glitches.

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>> In message <uh7373$3f7k7$5@dont-email.me>, at 00:30:27 on Tue, 24 Oct
>> 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <dkm8jitgmc99fg1clahm5q7f97a1cpovmj@4ax.com>, at 00:13:50 on
>>>> Sun, 22 Oct 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>> On Sat, 21 Oct 2023 16:47:31 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> In message <sfb7ji15rti44qr7etbumvg87nv1hg6na4@4ax.com>, at 11:55:51 on
>>>>>> Sat, 21 Oct 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>> On Sat, 21 Oct 2023 11:23:57 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In message <ugr24p$a3q5$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:58:33 on Thu, 19 Oct
>>>>>>>> 2023, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>>>> On 19/10/2023 11:49, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F8yheg6XAAA-_LG?format=jpg&name=medium
>>>>>>>>>> From
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> https://dataportal.orr.gov.uk/media/g3xjpk2p/infrastructure-and-assets-
>>>>>>>>>> 2022-23.pdf
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Elizabeth line stock already over 6 years old, how time flies!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Bear in mind the tunnels were very late, and so the trains sat in the
>>>>>>>> depots for years, and the drivers they'd hired sat in the canteen for
>>>>>>>> years.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Huh? They were running in service more than six years ago.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Some might have been, but the majority were waiting for the core and the
>>>>>> Heathrow/Ebbsfleet spurs to be commissioned. July 2020 and May 2022
>>>>>> respectively.
>>>>>
>>>>> You obviously know much more about the Elizabeth Line than I do. Please
>>>>> could you provide some information about the secret Ebbsfleet spur
>>>>> which apparently opened last year, which I thought was just an item on
>>>>> a wish list.
>>>>
>>>> It's a typo, get over it.
>>>
>>> It's not a typo. It again exposes your lack of knowledge about the EL.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> But the main point about delays in deploying the trains hasn't been
>>>> successfully challenged, so that's OK.
>>>
>>> As has been repeatedly pointed out to you, the 345s were the Aventra fleet
>>> deployed with the least delays. Why can't you explain why your local 720s
>>> were delayed so long?
>>
>> Posting a duplicate message at 0:30am, are you suffering from insomnia
>> as well as finger trouble with your usenet client?
>
> You appear not to be aware of the ES glitches.

He doesn’t believe their glitches; he, idiosyncratically, thinks we’re all
operating Usenet services incompetently.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <uh7373$3f7k7$5@dont-email.me>, at 00:30:27 on Tue, 24 Oct
>>> 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <dkm8jitgmc99fg1clahm5q7f97a1cpovmj@4ax.com>, at 00:13:50 on
>>>>> Sun, 22 Oct 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>> On Sat, 21 Oct 2023 16:47:31 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In message <sfb7ji15rti44qr7etbumvg87nv1hg6na4@4ax.com>, at 11:55:51 on
>>>>>>> Sat, 21 Oct 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>> On Sat, 21 Oct 2023 11:23:57 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In message <ugr24p$a3q5$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:58:33 on Thu, 19 Oct
>>>>>>>>> 2023, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>> On 19/10/2023 11:49, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F8yheg6XAAA-_LG?format=jpg&name=medium
>>>>>>>>>>> From
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> https://dataportal.orr.gov.uk/media/g3xjpk2p/infrastructure-and-assets-
>>>>>>>>>>> 2022-23.pdf
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Elizabeth line stock already over 6 years old, how time flies!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Bear in mind the tunnels were very late, and so the trains sat in the
>>>>>>>>> depots for years, and the drivers they'd hired sat in the canteen for
>>>>>>>>> years.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Huh? They were running in service more than six years ago.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Some might have been, but the majority were waiting for the core and the
>>>>>>> Heathrow/Ebbsfleet spurs to be commissioned. July 2020 and May 2022
>>>>>>> respectively.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You obviously know much more about the Elizabeth Line than I do. Please
>>>>>> could you provide some information about the secret Ebbsfleet spur
>>>>>> which apparently opened last year, which I thought was just an item on
>>>>>> a wish list.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's a typo, get over it.
>>>>
>>>> It's not a typo. It again exposes your lack of knowledge about the EL.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> But the main point about delays in deploying the trains hasn't been
>>>>> successfully challenged, so that's OK.
>>>>
>>>> As has been repeatedly pointed out to you, the 345s were the Aventra fleet
>>>> deployed with the least delays. Why can't you explain why your local 720s
>>>> were delayed so long?
>>>
>>> Posting a duplicate message at 0:30am, are you suffering from insomnia
>>> as well as finger trouble with your usenet client?
>>
>> You appear not to be aware of the ES glitches.
>
> He doesn’t believe their glitches; he, idiosyncratically, thinks we’re all
> operating Usenet services incompetently.

Aargh - “they’re”!

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <uh7373$3f7k7$5@dont-email.me>, at 00:30:27 on Tue, 24 Oct
>>>> 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <dkm8jitgmc99fg1clahm5q7f97a1cpovmj@4ax.com>, at 00:13:50 on
>>>>>> Sun, 22 Oct 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>> On Sat, 21 Oct 2023 16:47:31 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In message <sfb7ji15rti44qr7etbumvg87nv1hg6na4@4ax.com>, at 11:55:51 on
>>>>>>>> Sat, 21 Oct 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 21 Oct 2023 11:23:57 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> In message <ugr24p$a3q5$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:58:33 on Thu, 19 Oct
>>>>>>>>>> 2023, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 19/10/2023 11:49, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F8yheg6XAAA-_LG?format=jpg&name=medium
>>>>>>>>>>>> From
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://dataportal.orr.gov.uk/media/g3xjpk2p/infrastructure-and-assets-
>>>>>>>>>>>> 2022-23.pdf
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Elizabeth line stock already over 6 years old, how time flies!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Bear in mind the tunnels were very late, and so the trains sat in the
>>>>>>>>>> depots for years, and the drivers they'd hired sat in the canteen for
>>>>>>>>>> years.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Huh? They were running in service more than six years ago.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Some might have been, but the majority were waiting for the core and the
>>>>>>>> Heathrow/Ebbsfleet spurs to be commissioned. July 2020 and May 2022
>>>>>>>> respectively.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You obviously know much more about the Elizabeth Line than I do. Please
>>>>>>> could you provide some information about the secret Ebbsfleet spur
>>>>>>> which apparently opened last year, which I thought was just an item on
>>>>>>> a wish list.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's a typo, get over it.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's not a typo. It again exposes your lack of knowledge about the EL.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But the main point about delays in deploying the trains hasn't been
>>>>>> successfully challenged, so that's OK.
>>>>>
>>>>> As has been repeatedly pointed out to you, the 345s were the Aventra fleet
>>>>> deployed with the least delays. Why can't you explain why your local 720s
>>>>> were delayed so long?
>>>>
>>>> Posting a duplicate message at 0:30am, are you suffering from insomnia
>>>> as well as finger trouble with your usenet client?
>>>
>>> You appear not to be aware of the ES glitches.
>>
>> He doesn’t believe their glitches; he, idiosyncratically, thinks we’re all
>> operating Usenet services incompetently.
>
> Aargh - “they’re”!
>
>

'Their' kinda works there too, tbh!

Anna Noyd-Dryver

Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <uh7373$3f7k7$5@dont-email.me>, at 00:30:27 on Tue, 24 Oct
>>>>> 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <dkm8jitgmc99fg1clahm5q7f97a1cpovmj@4ax.com>, at 00:13:50 on
>>>>>>> Sun, 22 Oct 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>> On Sat, 21 Oct 2023 16:47:31 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In message <sfb7ji15rti44qr7etbumvg87nv1hg6na4@4ax.com>, at 11:55:51 on
>>>>>>>>> Sat, 21 Oct 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 21 Oct 2023 11:23:57 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> In message <ugr24p$a3q5$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:58:33 on Thu, 19 Oct
>>>>>>>>>>> 2023, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 19/10/2023 11:49, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F8yheg6XAAA-_LG?format=jpg&name=medium
>>>>>>>>>>>>> From
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://dataportal.orr.gov.uk/media/g3xjpk2p/infrastructure-and-assets-
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2022-23.pdf
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Elizabeth line stock already over 6 years old, how time flies!
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Bear in mind the tunnels were very late, and so the trains sat in the
>>>>>>>>>>> depots for years, and the drivers they'd hired sat in the canteen for
>>>>>>>>>>> years.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Huh? They were running in service more than six years ago.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Some might have been, but the majority were waiting for the core and the
>>>>>>>>> Heathrow/Ebbsfleet spurs to be commissioned. July 2020 and May 2022
>>>>>>>>> respectively.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You obviously know much more about the Elizabeth Line than I do. Please
>>>>>>>> could you provide some information about the secret Ebbsfleet spur
>>>>>>>> which apparently opened last year, which I thought was just an item on
>>>>>>>> a wish list.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's a typo, get over it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's not a typo. It again exposes your lack of knowledge about the EL.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But the main point about delays in deploying the trains hasn't been
>>>>>>> successfully challenged, so that's OK.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As has been repeatedly pointed out to you, the 345s were the Aventra fleet
>>>>>> deployed with the least delays. Why can't you explain why your local 720s
>>>>>> were delayed so long?
>>>>>
>>>>> Posting a duplicate message at 0:30am, are you suffering from insomnia
>>>>> as well as finger trouble with your usenet client?
>>>>
>>>> You appear not to be aware of the ES glitches.
>>>
>>> He doesn’t believe their glitches; he, idiosyncratically, thinks we’re all
>>> operating Usenet services incompetently.
>>
>> Aargh - “they’re”!
>>
>>
>
> 'Their' kinda works there too, tbh!

Point! :-)

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply