Nick Odell <nick@themusicworkshop.plus.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 30 Mar 2022 14:43:22 -0000 (UTC), Mike McMillan
> <toodle.pip1@virginmedia.com> wrote:
>
>> Penny <spam@labyrinth.freeuk.com> wrote:
>>> On Wed, 30 Mar 2022 13:54:35 -0000 (UTC), Chris
>>> <chris.mcmillan@ntlworld.com> scrawled in the dust...
>>>
>>>> Sid Nuncius <nuncius@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> If I tap the microphone symbol on the Google app as though I were going
>>>>> to ask it a normal question, at the bottom of the screen there is a
>>>>> "Search for a song" button. If you play it the music it identifies it.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's pretty reliable. I've just tried it on the Bach Before 7 piece on
>>>>> Radio 3 and it identified not only the correct piece of Bach, but also
>>>>> that it was Paul Tortelier playing it. I'm impressed.
>>>>>
>>>> Berloimy!!
>>>
>>> Isn't he the chap who hums when he plays? I think I might have got that
>>> one.
>>
>> The famous (infamous) pianist for that was Glenn Gould, reading the memoirs
>> of John Culshaw (recording engineer and producer - not impersonator ) who
>> had the ‘pleasure’ of working with Glenn, he used to try all manner of
>> tricks to reduce the vocal contributions.
>
> Talking of recording engineers, Mike, are you listening to the series
> currently on Radio 4 Extra - The Changing Sound Of Radio
> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000g3y4> ?
>
> Nothing new to surprise you, Mike, but I think it's a beautifully made
> series. Episode 2 is coming up in about fifteen minutes.
>
> Nick
>

Err, no I wasn’t aware of the series Nick, thank you, I’ll nose around
about on ‘Sounds’ or LA or ‘Last week or summat for it.

--
Toodle Pip, Mike McMillan

On 30/03/2022 20:39, Nick Odell wrote:
> On Wed, 30 Mar 2022 16:19:40 +0100, John Ashby <johnashby20@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 30/03/2022 15:28, Penny wrote:
>>> On Wed, 30 Mar 2022 13:54:35 -0000 (UTC), Chris
>>> <chris.mcmillan@ntlworld.com> scrawled in the dust...
>>>
>>>> Sid Nuncius <nuncius@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> If I tap the microphone symbol on the Google app as though I were going
>>>>> to ask it a normal question, at the bottom of the screen there is a
>>>>> "Search for a song" button. If you play it the music it identifies it.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's pretty reliable. I've just tried it on the Bach Before 7 piece on
>>>>> Radio 3 and it identified not only the correct piece of Bach, but also
>>>>> that it was Paul Tortelier playing it. I'm impressed.
>>>>>
>>>> Berloimy!!
>>>
>>> Isn't he the chap who hums when he plays? I think I might have got that
>>> one.
>>
>> More notoriously Glenn Gould. I won't swear that Tortelier didn't do it,
>> but it's not what he was famous for.
>>
>> My favourite Tortelier remark was on the Authentic Performance movement
>> along the lines of "They must have the baroque instruments, the baroque
>> bows, the baroque music stands, the baroque microphones."
>>
> I know what you mean. In the past I built a few early instruments -
> mainly to find out in a practical way what made them different from
> the instruments we make today - and in my opinion they do feel and
> play and respond differently from their modern counterparts so I think
> the authentic instrument movement does have a point. But having
> attended quite a few early music concerts - in the interests of
> research, of course, I am left wondering how some of the musicians
> manage to hold their playing postures when they are obviously so much
> up their own a***s.
>
> Nick

I've never actually built an early instrument, but I know a lot of
people who have, and who play them, and who play modern instruments as
well, and have been involved in countless performances featuring them.
There is indeed a ghastly precious fringe of players who obsess about
tuning and acoustics and exactly which kind of cat provides the right
kind of gut-string, but they are much rarer now than, say, thirty years
ago. Pandemic and Brexit and economic straits have brutally sieved out
the practical professionals from the pernickety niche artists (who are
often academics in the day job). There's a lot more cross-over and
fusion going on, too, with baroque and classical techniques informing
players of modern instruments and making a huge difference to your
average Bach or Handel performance, there are modern works being
composed for harpsichords and counter-tenors, there's a really
interesting movement bringing together folk musicians and early music
players.

And we don't even say 'authentic' any more! The usual term now is
'Historically Informed Performance Practice'. 'Authenticity' was passé
even in 1990 when I wrote the paragraph below in a programme article,
which I quote shamelessly:

If we listen to recordings of the past, it’s clear that all of them,
from Dolmetsch to Leppard to Gardiner, are using the same source
material to produce music that sounds radically different - and the
major cause of the differences is not so much the state of academic
knowledge but the estimated capability of the audience to understand it,
not to mention changing tastes. What is also clear, however, is that
what is really working has much less to do with the level of
authenticity than with the intensity of music-making. So that became our
attitude to the music: we did our own research, we engaged the most
knowledgable musicians that we could find, but the goal was to make
music with it, to move the audience, not just impress them. This is
scarcely controversial - I doubt whether any musician would want to do
otherwise, and everybody has to make certain accommodations between
written rules and actual practice, most of which will be made in the
interests of better communication.

oops, going on a bit there. Sorry. Normal service will be resumed forthwith.

--
Kate B

On 31/03/2022 10:09, Kate B wrote:
> On 30/03/2022 20:39, Nick Odell wrote:
>> On Wed, 30 Mar 2022 16:19:40 +0100, John Ashby <johnashby20@yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 30/03/2022 15:28, Penny wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 30 Mar 2022 13:54:35 -0000 (UTC), Chris
>>>> <chris.mcmillan@ntlworld.com> scrawled in the dust...
>>>>
>>>>> Sid Nuncius <nuncius@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> If I tap the microphone symbol on the Google app as though I were
>>>>>> going
>>>>>> to ask it a normal question, at the bottom of the screen there is a
>>>>>> "Search for a song" button.  If you play it the music it
>>>>>> identifies it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's pretty reliable.  I've just tried it on the Bach Before 7
>>>>>> piece on
>>>>>> Radio 3 and it identified not only the correct piece of Bach, but
>>>>>> also
>>>>>> that it was Paul Tortelier playing it.  I'm impressed.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Berloimy!!
>>>>
>>>> Isn't he the chap who hums when he plays? I think I might have got that
>>>> one.
>>>
>>> More notoriously Glenn Gould. I won't swear that Tortelier didn't do it,
>>> but it's not what he was famous for.
>>>
>>> My favourite Tortelier remark was on the Authentic Performance movement
>>> along the lines of "They must have the baroque instruments, the baroque
>>> bows, the baroque music stands, the baroque microphones."
>>>
>> I know what you mean. In the past I built a few early instruments -
>> mainly to find out in a practical way what made them different from
>> the instruments we make today - and in my opinion they do feel and
>> play and respond differently from their modern counterparts so I think
>> the authentic instrument movement does have a point. But having
>> attended quite a few early music concerts - in the interests of
>> research, of course, I am left wondering how some of the musicians
>> manage to hold their playing postures when they are obviously so much
>> up their own a***s.
>>
>> Nick
>
> I've never actually built an early instrument, but I know a lot of
> people who have, and who play them, and who play modern instruments as
> well, and have been involved in countless performances featuring them.
> There is indeed a ghastly precious fringe of players who obsess about
> tuning and acoustics and exactly which kind of cat provides the right
> kind of gut-string, but they are much rarer now than, say, thirty years
> ago. Pandemic and Brexit and economic straits have brutally sieved out
> the practical professionals from the pernickety niche artists (who are
> often academics in the day job).  There's a lot more cross-over and
> fusion going on, too, with baroque and classical techniques informing
> players of modern instruments and making a huge difference to your
> average Bach or Handel performance, there are modern works being
> composed for harpsichords and counter-tenors, there's a really
> interesting movement bringing together folk musicians and early music
> players.
>
> And we don't even say 'authentic' any more! The usual term now is
> 'Historically Informed Performance Practice'. 'Authenticity' was passé
> even in 1990 when I wrote the paragraph below in a programme article,
> which I quote shamelessly:
>
> If we listen to recordings of the past, it’s clear that all of them,
> from Dolmetsch to Leppard to Gardiner, are using the same source
> material to produce music that sounds radically different - and the
> major cause of the differences is not so much the state of academic
> knowledge but the estimated capability of the audience to understand it,
> not to mention changing tastes. What is also clear, however, is that
> what is really working has much less to do with the level of
> authenticity than with the intensity of music-making. So that became our
> attitude to the music: we did our own research, we engaged the most
> knowledgable musicians that we could find, but the goal was to make
> music with it, to move the audience, not just impress them. This is
> scarcely controversial - I doubt whether any musician would want to do
> otherwise, and everybody has to make certain accommodations between
> written rules and actual practice, most of which will be made in the
> interests of better communication.
>
> oops, going on a bit there. Sorry. Normal service will be resumed
> forthwith.
>

I like this service. Thank you, Kate.

john

Chris <chris.mcmillan@ntlworld.com> writes:

> Kate B <elvira@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 28/03/2022 20:03, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>>> On 28-Mar-22 9:16, Mike Ruddock wrote:
>>>> The app sometimes offers to play you the whole piece. I haven't tried
>>>> it with pieces whistled or hummed . . .
>>>
>>> That last bit is what I need.
>>>
>>> When I find myself whistling/humming/ti-tum ti-tum/La la laring (etc.)
>>> some stuck tune which I know very well, but cannot for the life of me
>>> remember its title...
>>>
>>
>> Well, I tried this on the hauntingly familiar music that plays when you
>> access the page for Robin's funeral. I knew it was called Pavane and was
>> French but couldn't immediately remember if it was Fauré or Ravel.
>> Shazam confidently asserted that it was written by someone called Paul
>> Anthony Adams (I mean, not even John or Adolphe) and available on some
>> compilation easy listening album from Apple Music. That's a bit of a
>> fail, I'd say.
>>
>
> I haven’t listened to that, it’ll be Faure and his dead Infanta.

If Fauré wrote the Dead Infanta then my memory is unRaveling...

Rosie

On 31/03/2022 10:44, Rosalind Mitchell wrote:
> Chris <chris.mcmillan@ntlworld.com> writes:
>
>> Kate B <elvira@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On 28/03/2022 20:03, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>>>> On 28-Mar-22 9:16, Mike Ruddock wrote:
>>>>> The app sometimes offers to play you the whole piece. I haven't tried
>>>>> it with pieces whistled or hummed . . .
>>>>
>>>> That last bit is what I need.
>>>>
>>>> When I find myself whistling/humming/ti-tum ti-tum/La la laring (etc.)
>>>> some stuck tune which I know very well, but cannot for the life of me
>>>> remember its title...
>>>>
>>>
>>> Well, I tried this on the hauntingly familiar music that plays when you
>>> access the page for Robin's funeral. I knew it was called Pavane and was
>>> French but couldn't immediately remember if it was Fauré or Ravel.
>>> Shazam confidently asserted that it was written by someone called Paul
>>> Anthony Adams (I mean, not even John or Adolphe) and available on some
>>> compilation easy listening album from Apple Music. That's a bit of a
>>> fail, I'd say.
>>>
>>
>> I haven’t listened to that, it’ll be Faure and his dead Infanta.
>
> If Fauré wrote the Dead Infanta then my memory is unRaveling...
>
You can ravel it up again - a bit - Fauré did write a Pavane, and it was
indeed the music featured on the access page. No dead infants involved
here, though.

--
Kate B

Kate B <elvira@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> On 30/03/2022 20:39, Nick Odell wrote:
>> On Wed, 30 Mar 2022 16:19:40 +0100, John Ashby <johnashby20@yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 30/03/2022 15:28, Penny wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 30 Mar 2022 13:54:35 -0000 (UTC), Chris
>>>> <chris.mcmillan@ntlworld.com> scrawled in the dust...
>>>>
>>>>> Sid Nuncius <nuncius@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> If I tap the microphone symbol on the Google app as though I were going
>>>>>> to ask it a normal question, at the bottom of the screen there is a
>>>>>> "Search for a song" button. If you play it the music it identifies it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's pretty reliable. I've just tried it on the Bach Before 7 piece on
>>>>>> Radio 3 and it identified not only the correct piece of Bach, but also
>>>>>> that it was Paul Tortelier playing it. I'm impressed.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Berloimy!!
>>>>
>>>> Isn't he the chap who hums when he plays? I think I might have got that
>>>> one.
>>>
>>> More notoriously Glenn Gould. I won't swear that Tortelier didn't do it,
>>> but it's not what he was famous for.
>>>
>>> My favourite Tortelier remark was on the Authentic Performance movement
>>> along the lines of "They must have the baroque instruments, the baroque
>>> bows, the baroque music stands, the baroque microphones."
>>>
>> I know what you mean. In the past I built a few early instruments -
>> mainly to find out in a practical way what made them different from
>> the instruments we make today - and in my opinion they do feel and
>> play and respond differently from their modern counterparts so I think
>> the authentic instrument movement does have a point. But having
>> attended quite a few early music concerts - in the interests of
>> research, of course, I am left wondering how some of the musicians
>> manage to hold their playing postures when they are obviously so much
>> up their own a***s.
>>
>> Nick
>
> I've never actually built an early instrument, but I know a lot of
> people who have, and who play them, and who play modern instruments as
> well, and have been involved in countless performances featuring them.
> There is indeed a ghastly precious fringe of players who obsess about
> tuning and acoustics and exactly which kind of cat provides the right
> kind of gut-string, but they are much rarer now than, say, thirty years
> ago. Pandemic and Brexit and economic straits have brutally sieved out
> the practical professionals from the pernickety niche artists (who are
> often academics in the day job). There's a lot more cross-over and
> fusion going on, too, with baroque and classical techniques informing
> players of modern instruments and making a huge difference to your
> average Bach or Handel performance, there are modern works being
> composed for harpsichords and counter-tenors, there's a really
> interesting movement bringing together folk musicians and early music
> players.
>
> And we don't even say 'authentic' any more! The usual term now is
> 'Historically Informed Performance Practice'. 'Authenticity' was passé
> even in 1990 when I wrote the paragraph below in a programme article,
> which I quote shamelessly:
>
> If we listen to recordings of the past, it’s clear that all of them,
> from Dolmetsch to Leppard to Gardiner, are using the same source
> material to produce music that sounds radically different - and the
> major cause of the differences is not so much the state of academic
> knowledge but the estimated capability of the audience to understand it,
> not to mention changing tastes. What is also clear, however, is that
> what is really working has much less to do with the level of
> authenticity than with the intensity of music-making. So that became our
> attitude to the music: we did our own research, we engaged the most
> knowledgable musicians that we could find, but the goal was to make
> music with it, to move the audience, not just impress them. This is
> scarcely controversial - I doubt whether any musician would want to do
> otherwise, and everybody has to make certain accommodations between
> written rules and actual practice, most of which will be made in the
> interests of better communication.
>
> oops, going on a bit there. Sorry. Normal service will be resumed forthwith.
>

:).

Mrs McT

Rosalind Mitchell <walneyrose@gmail.com> wrote:
> Chris <chris.mcmillan@ntlworld.com> writes:
>
>> Kate B <elvira@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On 28/03/2022 20:03, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>>>> On 28-Mar-22 9:16, Mike Ruddock wrote:
>>>>> The app sometimes offers to play you the whole piece. I haven't tried
>>>>> it with pieces whistled or hummed . . .
>>>>
>>>> That last bit is what I need.
>>>>
>>>> When I find myself whistling/humming/ti-tum ti-tum/La la laring (etc.)
>>>> some stuck tune which I know very well, but cannot for the life of me
>>>> remember its title...
>>>>
>>>
>>> Well, I tried this on the hauntingly familiar music that plays when you
>>> access the page for Robin's funeral. I knew it was called Pavane and was
>>> French but couldn't immediately remember if it was Fauré or Ravel.
>>> Shazam confidently asserted that it was written by someone called Paul
>>> Anthony Adams (I mean, not even John or Adolphe) and available on some
>>> compilation easy listening album from Apple Music. That's a bit of a
>>> fail, I'd say.
>>>
>>
>> I haven’t listened to that, it’ll be Faure and his dead Infanta.
>
> If Fauré wrote the Dead Infanta then my memory is unRaveling...
>
> Rosie
>

Because I am rapidly losing the plot in all parts of my life, Rosie.

Sincerely Chris

Kate B <elvira@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> On 31/03/2022 10:44, Rosalind Mitchell wrote:
>> Chris <chris.mcmillan@ntlworld.com> writes:
>>
>>> Kate B <elvira@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 28/03/2022 20:03, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>>>>> On 28-Mar-22 9:16, Mike Ruddock wrote:
>>>>>> The app sometimes offers to play you the whole piece. I haven't tried
>>>>>> it with pieces whistled or hummed . . .
>>>>>
>>>>> That last bit is what I need.
>>>>>
>>>>> When I find myself whistling/humming/ti-tum ti-tum/La la laring (etc.)
>>>>> some stuck tune which I know very well, but cannot for the life of me
>>>>> remember its title...
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Well, I tried this on the hauntingly familiar music that plays when you
>>>> access the page for Robin's funeral. I knew it was called Pavane and was
>>>> French but couldn't immediately remember if it was Fauré or Ravel.
>>>> Shazam confidently asserted that it was written by someone called Paul
>>>> Anthony Adams (I mean, not even John or Adolphe) and available on some
>>>> compilation easy listening album from Apple Music. That's a bit of a
>>>> fail, I'd say.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I haven’t listened to that, it’ll be Faure and his dead Infanta.
>>
>> If Fauré wrote the Dead Infanta then my memory is unRaveling...
>>
> You can ravel it up again - a bit - Fauré did write a Pavane, and it was
> indeed the music featured on the access page. No dead infants involved
> here, though.
>
>

Still stand by my comment to Rosie ….. :)

Sincerely Chris

Mike McMillan <toodle.pip1@virginmedia.com> wrote:
> Nick Odell <nick@themusicworkshop.plus.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, 30 Mar 2022 14:43:22 -0000 (UTC), Mike McMillan
>> <toodle.pip1@virginmedia.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Penny <spam@labyrinth.freeuk.com> wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 30 Mar 2022 13:54:35 -0000 (UTC), Chris
>>>> <chris.mcmillan@ntlworld.com> scrawled in the dust...
>>>>
>>>>> Sid Nuncius <nuncius@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> If I tap the microphone symbol on the Google app as though I were going
>>>>>> to ask it a normal question, at the bottom of the screen there is a
>>>>>> "Search for a song" button. If you play it the music it identifies it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's pretty reliable. I've just tried it on the Bach Before 7 piece on
>>>>>> Radio 3 and it identified not only the correct piece of Bach, but also
>>>>>> that it was Paul Tortelier playing it. I'm impressed.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Berloimy!!
>>>>
>>>> Isn't he the chap who hums when he plays? I think I might have got that
>>>> one.
>>>
>>> The famous (infamous) pianist for that was Glenn Gould, reading the memoirs
>>> of John Culshaw (recording engineer and producer - not impersonator ) who
>>> had the ‘pleasure’ of working with Glenn, he used to try all manner of
>>> tricks to reduce the vocal contributions.
>>
>> Talking of recording engineers, Mike, are you listening to the series
>> currently on Radio 4 Extra - The Changing Sound Of Radio
>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000g3y4> ?
>>
>> Nothing new to surprise you, Mike, but I think it's a beautifully made
>> series. Episode 2 is coming up in about fifteen minutes.
>>
>> Nick
>>
>
> Err, no I wasn’t aware of the series Nick, thank you, I’ll nose around
> about on ‘Sounds’ or LA or ‘Last week or summat for it.
>

Have now listened to the first and second programme Nick; yes, very
familiar, as was most of the equipment and techniques spoken about and
demonstrated. My first quarter inch recorder was a Phillips portable
machine in the early sixties but, within 6 months, it was joined by another
mains powered machine - then subsequent machines and other equipment… Just
for fun one day, I recorded a message to a friend (tapesponder - the
electronic equivalent of a pen-pal) on a recorder at 15/16 inches per
second and played it back on a second machine at 15 inches per second and
recorded the result to another machine at 3.75 inches per second, then sent
this small piece of tape in an envelope to my tapesponder to reverse the
process to recover my (by then, somewhat lower quality) message.

--
Toodle Pip, Mike McMillan

Mike McMillan <toodle.pip1@virginmedia.com> wrote:
> Mike McMillan <toodle.pip1@virginmedia.com> wrote:
>> Nick Odell <nick@themusicworkshop.plus.com> wrote:
>>> On Wed, 30 Mar 2022 14:43:22 -0000 (UTC), Mike McMillan
>>> <toodle.pip1@virginmedia.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Penny <spam@labyrinth.freeuk.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 30 Mar 2022 13:54:35 -0000 (UTC), Chris
>>>>> <chris.mcmillan@ntlworld.com> scrawled in the dust...
>>>>>
>>>>>> Sid Nuncius <nuncius@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> If I tap the microphone symbol on the Google app as though I were going
>>>>>>> to ask it a normal question, at the bottom of the screen there is a
>>>>>>> "Search for a song" button. If you play it the music it identifies it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's pretty reliable. I've just tried it on the Bach Before 7 piece on
>>>>>>> Radio 3 and it identified not only the correct piece of Bach, but also
>>>>>>> that it was Paul Tortelier playing it. I'm impressed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Berloimy!!
>>>>>
>>>>> Isn't he the chap who hums when he plays? I think I might have got that
>>>>> one.
>>>>
>>>> The famous (infamous) pianist for that was Glenn Gould, reading the memoirs
>>>> of John Culshaw (recording engineer and producer - not impersonator ) who
>>>> had the ‘pleasure’ of working with Glenn, he used to try all manner of
>>>> tricks to reduce the vocal contributions.
>>>
>>> Talking of recording engineers, Mike, are you listening to the series
>>> currently on Radio 4 Extra - The Changing Sound Of Radio
>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000g3y4> ?
>>>
>>> Nothing new to surprise you, Mike, but I think it's a beautifully made
>>> series. Episode 2 is coming up in about fifteen minutes.
>>>
>>> Nick
>>>
>>
>> Err, no I wasn’t aware of the series Nick, thank you, I’ll nose around
>> about on ‘Sounds’ or LA or ‘Last week or summat for it.
>>
>
> Have now listened to the first and second programme Nick; yes, very
> familiar, as was most of the equipment and techniques spoken about and
> demonstrated. My first quarter inch recorder was a Phillips portable
> machine in the early sixties but, within 6 months, it was joined by another
> mains powered machine - then subsequent machines and other equipment… Just
> for fun one day, I recorded a message to a friend (tapesponder - the
> electronic equivalent of a pen-pal) on a recorder at 15/16 inches per
> second and played it back on a second machine at 15 inches per second and
> recorded the result to another machine at 3.75 inches per second, then sent
> this small piece of tape in an envelope to my tapesponder to reverse the
> process to recover my (by then, somewhat lower quality) message.
>

Don’t suppose manyRats (if any!) would be interested but, one of my earlier
tape recorders was this model…

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/255422595532?mkevt=1&mkcid=1&mkrid=710-53481-19255-0&campid=5338766898&toolid=10029&customid=9120e66a449b24090645a6898137703a&_trkparms=ispr%3D1&amdata=enc%3A1k3XIxNj7S--ZyzzCsGkS4A68

--
Toodle Pip, Mike McMillan

On 31/03/2022 16:17, Mike McMillan wrote:
<snip>
>
> Don’t suppose manyRats (if any!) would be interested but, one of my earlier
> tape recorders was this model…
>
> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/255422595532?mkevt=1&mkcid=1&mkrid=710-53481-19255-0&campid=5338766898&toolid=10029&customid=9120e66a449b24090645a6898137703a&_trkparms=ispr%3D1&amdata=enc%3A1k3XIxNj7S--ZyzzCsGkS4A68
>

Lightweight. Should've bought British. I used to service these in BH...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Tape_Recorder#/media/File:British_Tape_Recorder_BTR3.jpg

[Or a meringue? They certainly looked like that, though the memory fades.]

--
Cheers
Clive

Mike McMillan <toodle.pip1@virginmedia.com> wrote:
> Mike McMillan <toodle.pip1@virginmedia.com> wrote:
>> Mike McMillan <toodle.pip1@virginmedia.com> wrote:
>>> Nick Odell <nick@themusicworkshop.plus.com> wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 30 Mar 2022 14:43:22 -0000 (UTC), Mike McMillan
>>>> <toodle.pip1@virginmedia.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Penny <spam@labyrinth.freeuk.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On Wed, 30 Mar 2022 13:54:35 -0000 (UTC), Chris
>>>>>> <chris.mcmillan@ntlworld.com> scrawled in the dust...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sid Nuncius <nuncius@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If I tap the microphone symbol on the Google app as though I were going
>>>>>>>> to ask it a normal question, at the bottom of the screen there is a
>>>>>>>> "Search for a song" button. If you play it the music it identifies it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It's pretty reliable. I've just tried it on the Bach Before 7 piece on
>>>>>>>> Radio 3 and it identified not only the correct piece of Bach, but also
>>>>>>>> that it was Paul Tortelier playing it. I'm impressed.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Berloimy!!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Isn't he the chap who hums when he plays? I think I might have got that
>>>>>> one.
>>>>>
>>>>> The famous (infamous) pianist for that was Glenn Gould, reading the memoirs
>>>>> of John Culshaw (recording engineer and producer - not impersonator ) who
>>>>> had the ‘pleasure’ of working with Glenn, he used to try all manner of
>>>>> tricks to reduce the vocal contributions.
>>>>
>>>> Talking of recording engineers, Mike, are you listening to the series
>>>> currently on Radio 4 Extra - The Changing Sound Of Radio
>>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000g3y4> ?
>>>>
>>>> Nothing new to surprise you, Mike, but I think it's a beautifully made
>>>> series. Episode 2 is coming up in about fifteen minutes.
>>>>
>>>> Nick
>>>>
>>>
>>> Err, no I wasn’t aware of the series Nick, thank you, I’ll nose around
>>> about on ‘Sounds’ or LA or ‘Last week or summat for it.
>>>
>>
>> Have now listened to the first and second programme Nick; yes, very
>> familiar, as was most of the equipment and techniques spoken about and
>> demonstrated. My first quarter inch recorder was a Phillips portable
>> machine in the early sixties but, within 6 months, it was joined by another
>> mains powered machine - then subsequent machines and other equipment… Just
>> for fun one day, I recorded a message to a friend (tapesponder - the
>> electronic equivalent of a pen-pal) on a recorder at 15/16 inches per
>> second and played it back on a second machine at 15 inches per second and
>> recorded the result to another machine at 3.75 inches per second, then sent
>> this small piece of tape in an envelope to my tapesponder to reverse the
>> process to recover my (by then, somewhat lower quality) message.
>>
>
> Don’t suppose manyRats (if any!) would be interested but, one of my earlier
> tape recorders was this model…
>
> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/255422595532?mkevt=1&mkcid=1&mkrid=710-53481-19255-0&campid=5338766898&toolid=10029&customid=9120e66a449b24090645a6898137703a&_trkparms=ispr%3D1&amdata=enc%3A1k3XIxNj7S--ZyzzCsGkS4A68
>

And for TechRats, a little more information on this very versatile machine…

https://reel-reel.com/tape-recorder/stella-st-459/

Many miles of quarter inch tape have passed the headblocks on my tape
recorders since then…

--
Toodle Pip, Mike McMillan

Clive Arthur <clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:
> On 31/03/2022 16:17, Mike McMillan wrote:
> <snip>
>>
>> Don’t suppose manyRats (if any!) would be interested but, one of my earlier
>> tape recorders was this model…
>>
>> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/255422595532?mkevt=1&mkcid=1&mkrid=710-53481-19255-0&campid=5338766898&toolid=10029&customid=9120e66a449b24090645a6898137703a&_trkparms=ispr%3D1&amdata=enc%3A1k3XIxNj7S--ZyzzCsGkS4A68
>>
>
> Lightweight. Should've bought British. I used to service these in BH...
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Tape_Recorder#/media/File:British_Tape_Recorder_BTR3.jpg
>
> [Or a meringue? They certainly looked like that, though the memory fades.]
>

Don’t think I ever used a BTR, but I have used Studer machines ( and many
others including Ampex, Revox, Ferrograph, Brenell [spit, never liked them]
and Nagras.

--
Toodle Pip, Mike McMillan

On 31/03/2022 16:33, Mike McMillan wrote:
> Clive Arthur <clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 31/03/2022 16:17, Mike McMillan wrote:
>> <snip>
>>>
>>> Don’t suppose manyRats (if any!) would be interested but, one of my earlier
>>> tape recorders was this model…
>>>
>>> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/255422595532?mkevt=1&mkcid=1&mkrid=710-53481-19255-0&campid=5338766898&toolid=10029&customid=9120e66a449b24090645a6898137703a&_trkparms=ispr%3D1&amdata=enc%3A1k3XIxNj7S--ZyzzCsGkS4A68
>>>
>>
>> Lightweight. Should've bought British. I used to service these in BH...
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Tape_Recorder#/media/File:British_Tape_Recorder_BTR3.jpg
>>
>> [Or a meringue? They certainly looked like that, though the memory fades.]
>>
>
> Don’t think I ever used a BTR, but I have used Studer machines ( and many
> others including Ampex, Revox, Ferrograph, Brenell [spit, never liked them]
> and Nagras.
>

The BTR machines were being phased out when I was there, about 1975-78,
though some were retained for the tape repair and reuse department as
they had loads of room on top for splicing and you could whizz the tape
back and forth easily.

Some of the old Beeb stuff really was built like a battleship, even the
disk machines had motors the size of very large things. Slipmats? What
stuff and nonsense, you need a massive motor to spin the platter up quickly.

I spent many a couple of hours modifying Ferrograph machines which were
mostly used in offices - something to do with the main very-multipole
switch being rubbish. I had an old Leevers-Rich mechanism myself but
never got round to stealing^w building the electronics.

--
Cheers
Clive

On Thu, 31 Mar 2022 15:17:05 -0000 (UTC), Mike McMillan
<toodle.pip1@virginmedia.com> wrote:

>>> Nick Odell <nick@themusicworkshop.plus.com> wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 30 Mar 2022 14:43:22 -0000 (UTC),
>> mains powered machine - then subsequent machines and other equipment… Just
>> for fun one day, I recorded a message to a friend (tapesponder - the
>> electronic equivalent of a pen-pal) on a recorder at 15/16 inches per
>> second and played it back on a second machine at 15 inches per second and
>> recorded the result to another machine at 3.75 inches per second, then sent
>> this small piece of tape in an envelope to my tapesponder to reverse the
>> process to recover my (by then, somewhat lower quality) message.
>>
>
>Don’t suppose manyRats (if any!) would be interested but, one of my earlier
>tape recorders was this model…
>
>https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/255422595532?mkevt=1&mkcid=1&mkrid=710-53481-19255-0&campid=5338766898&toolid=10029&customid=9120e66a449b24090645a6898137703a&_trkparms=ispr%3D1&amdata=enc%3A1k3XIxNj7S--ZyzzCsGkS4A68

I had a reel to reel, given for getting into uni. It was upright
andthe reels were at the top.I used to drive to uni in the final year
changing reels on the way. No cat casette player then or radio.,

On Thu, 31 Mar 2022 16:47:10 +0100, Clive Arthur
<clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:

>On 31/03/2022 16:33, Mike McMillan wrote:
>> Clive Arthur <clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On 31/03/2022 16:17, Mike McMillan wrote:
>>> <snip>
>>>>
>>>> Don’t suppose manyRats (if any!) would be interested but, one of my earlier
>>>> tape recorders was this model…
>>>>
>>>> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/255422595532?mkevt=1&mkcid=1&mkrid=710-53481-19255-0&campid=5338766898&toolid=10029&customid=9120e66a449b24090645a6898137703a&_trkparms=ispr%3D1&amdata=enc%3A1k3XIxNj7S--ZyzzCsGkS4A68
>>>>
>>>
>>> Lightweight. Should've bought British. I used to service these in BH...
>>>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Tape_Recorder#/media/File:British_Tape_Recorder_BTR3.jpg
>>>
>>> [Or a meringue? They certainly looked like that, though the memory fades.]
>>>
>>
>> Don’t think I ever used a BTR, but I have used Studer machines ( and many
>> others including Ampex, Revox, Ferrograph, Brenell [spit, never liked them]
>> and Nagras.
>>
>
>The BTR machines were being phased out when I was there, about 1975-78,
>though some were retained for the tape repair and reuse department as
>they had loads of room on top for splicing and you could whizz the tape
>back and forth easily.
>
>Some of the old Beeb stuff really was built like a battleship, even the
>disk machines had motors the size of very large things. Slipmats? What
>stuff and nonsense, you need a massive motor to spin the platter up quickly.
>
>I spent many a couple of hours modifying Ferrograph machines which were
>mostly used in offices - something to do with the main very-multipole
>switch being rubbish. I had an old Leevers-Rich mechanism myself but
>never got round to stealing^w building the electronics.

When I worked for External ervices in 1969 the BBC had upright tape
recorders for outside use. My one from student days was like those.
Very portable.

Vicky <vicky.ayech@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 31 Mar 2022 16:47:10 +0100, Clive Arthur
> <clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 31/03/2022 16:33, Mike McMillan wrote:
>>> Clive Arthur <clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 31/03/2022 16:17, Mike McMillan wrote:
>>>> <snip>
>>>>>
>>>>> Don’t suppose manyRats (if any!) would be interested but, one of my earlier
>>>>> tape recorders was this model…
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/255422595532?mkevt=1&mkcid=1&mkrid=710-53481-19255-0&campid=5338766898&toolid=10029&customid=9120e66a449b24090645a6898137703a&_trkparms=ispr%3D1&amdata=enc%3A1k3XIxNj7S--ZyzzCsGkS4A68
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Lightweight. Should've bought British. I used to service these in BH...
>>>>
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Tape_Recorder#/media/File:British_Tape_Recorder_BTR3.jpg
>>>>
>>>> [Or a meringue? They certainly looked like that, though the memory fades.]
>>>>
>>>
>>> Don’t think I ever used a BTR, but I have used Studer machines ( and many
>>> others including Ampex, Revox, Ferrograph, Brenell [spit, never liked them]
>>> and Nagras.
>>>
>>
>> The BTR machines were being phased out when I was there, about 1975-78,
>> though some were retained for the tape repair and reuse department as
>> they had loads of room on top for splicing and you could whizz the tape
>> back and forth easily.
>>
>> Some of the old Beeb stuff really was built like a battleship, even the
>> disk machines had motors the size of very large things. Slipmats? What
>> stuff and nonsense, you need a massive motor to spin the platter up quickly.
>>
>> I spent many a couple of hours modifying Ferrograph machines which were
>> mostly used in offices - something to do with the main very-multipole
>> switch being rubbish. I had an old Leevers-Rich mechanism myself but
>> never got round to stealing^w building the electronics.
>
> When I worked for External ervices in 1969 the BBC had upright tape
> recorders for outside use. My one from student days was like those.
> Very portable.
>

ICBAM but, Aunty had a policy years back whereby to ensure they were not at
the ransom of one manufacturer, they specified their requirements and
companies were invited to tender to supply to that specification; I think
they would require three suppliers for a given product. This must have been
a very expensive policy and I know that in later years, this policy was
relaxed and Aunty had to accept products that were ‘mass produced’ to keep
costs down. I think that they also had to (shudder) accept Japanese
manufactured equipment because of the quality / performance / price
factors.

--
Toodle Pip, Mike McMillan

Mike McMillan wrote:

>Don’t suppose manyRats (if any!) would be interested but, one of my earlier
>tape recorders was this model…
>
>https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/255422595532?mkevt=1&mkcid=1&mkrid=710-53481-19255-0&campid=5338766898&toolid=10029&customid=9120e66a449b24090645a6898137703a&_trkparms=ispr%3D1&amdata=enc%3A1k3XIxNj7S--ZyzzCsGkS4A68

My first (and indeed only reel-to-reel) tape recorder ('63 IIRC)
was:

http://www.johansoldradios.se/tape-recorders/philips-el-3541

Seeing the picture I can already smell its distinctive aroma of
warm valves and tape.

Clive Arthur wrote:

>I spent many a couple of hours modifying Ferrograph machines which were
>mostly used in offices - something to do with the main very-multipole
>switch being rubbish. I had an old Leevers-Rich mechanism myself but
>never got round to stealing^w building the electronics.

At Radio Barnsley (Hospital Radio) we had a couple of Ferrographs
looking much like this:

https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/ferrograph_series_4_4a.html

We spent a lot of time cueing pop music from our tapes (for our
request programmes), and the single rotary control was a complete
pain for that.

However, at least you could grasp the reels. When I first got a
cassette deck it felt somewhat isolating to be unable to be
"hands on".

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham
'48/33 M B+ G++ A L(-) I S-- CH0(--)(p) Ar- T+ H0 ?Q
chris@cdixon.me.uk @ChrisJDixon1
Plant amazing Acers.

On 31-Mar-22 18:14, Mike McMillan wrote:
> ICBAM but, Aunty had a policy years back whereby to ensure they were not at
> the ransom of one manufacturer, they specified their requirements and
> companies were invited to tender to supply to that specification; I think
> they would require three suppliers for a given product.

I suppose that's why we ended up with speaker designs like the LS3/5 & 5A.

(There is a LS3/5a V3 still available, if you have around £2,200 to spare.)

--
Sam Plusnet

On 31/03/2022 19:43, Sam Plusnet wrote:
> On 31-Mar-22 18:14, Mike McMillan wrote:
>> ICBAM but, Aunty had a policy years back whereby to ensure they were
>> not at
>> the ransom of one manufacturer, they specified their requirements and
>> companies were invited to tender to supply to that specification; I think
>> they would require three suppliers for a given product.
>
> I suppose that's why we ended up with speaker designs like the LS3/5 & 5A.
>
> (There is a LS3/5a V3 still available, if you have around £2,200 to spare.)
>

I still have my LS3/5A speakers bought with a staff discount. I seem to
recall they were £50 or £150, but maybe not - with no mortgage or kids
and living with parents, what did money matter?

They still work, though I'm sure my ears have probably degraded.

--
Cheers
Clive

Clive Arthur <clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:
> On 31/03/2022 19:43, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>> On 31-Mar-22 18:14, Mike McMillan wrote:
>>> ICBAM but, Aunty had a policy years back whereby to ensure they were
>>> not at
>>> the ransom of one manufacturer, they specified their requirements and
>>> companies were invited to tender to supply to that specification; I think
>>> they would require three suppliers for a given product.
>>
>> I suppose that's why we ended up with speaker designs like the LS3/5 & 5A.
>>
>> (There is a LS3/5a V3 still available, if you have around £2,200 to spare.)
>>
>
> I still have my LS3/5A speakers bought with a staff discount. I seem to
> recall they were £50 or £150, but maybe not - with no mortgage or kids
> and living with parents, what did money matter?
>
> They still work, though I'm sure my ears have probably degraded.
>

I have spent numerous hours working in front of a pair of those in BH, me
working at Studers and them on their monstrous stands with the amps sitting
on a shelf within the stands.

--
Toodle Pip, Mike McMillan

On Thu, 31 Mar 2022 19:18:14 +0100, Chris J Dixon <chris@cdixon.me.uk>
wrote:

>Mike McMillan wrote:
>
>>Don’t suppose manyRats (if any!) would be interested but, one of my earlier
>>tape recorders was this model…
>>
>>https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/255422595532?mkevt=1&mkcid=1&mkrid=710-53481-19255-0&campid=5338766898&toolid=10029&customid=9120e66a449b24090645a6898137703a&_trkparms=ispr%3D1&amdata=enc%3A1k3XIxNj7S--ZyzzCsGkS4A68
>
>My first (and indeed only reel-to-reel) tape recorder ('63 IIRC)
>was:
>
>http://www.johansoldradios.se/tape-recorders/philips-el-3541
>
>Seeing the picture I can already smell its distinctive aroma of
>warm valves and tape.
>
>Clive Arthur wrote:
>
>>I spent many a couple of hours modifying Ferrograph machines which were
>>mostly used in offices - something to do with the main very-multipole
>>switch being rubbish. I had an old Leevers-Rich mechanism myself but
>>never got round to stealing^w building the electronics.
>
>At Radio Barnsley (Hospital Radio) we had a couple of Ferrographs
>looking much like this:
>
>https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/ferrograph_series_4_4a.html
>
>We spent a lot of time cueing pop music from our tapes (for our
>request programmes), and the single rotary control was a complete
>pain for that.
>
>However, at least you could grasp the reels. When I first got a
>cassette deck it felt somewhat isolating to be unable to be
>"hands on".
>
>Chris

A most interesting thread. The first tape recorder I got to use was
the school's Ferrograph Series 2. This was in the mid 60s, so it was
around 10 years old by that time. Used with a Vortexion mixer, and 3
Reslo ribbon mics. We also had an AM tuner which took its power from
the Ferrograph auxiliary socket.

I still own a Grundig TK5, of I suppose about the same vintage, but it
hasn't been used for many years.

John Armstrong <jja@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> On Thu, 31 Mar 2022 19:18:14 +0100, Chris J Dixon <chris@cdixon.me.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> Mike McMillan wrote:
>>
>>> Don’t suppose manyRats (if any!) would be interested but, one of my earlier
>>> tape recorders was this model…
>>>
>>> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/255422595532?mkevt=1&mkcid=1&mkrid=710-53481-19255-0&campid=5338766898&toolid=10029&customid=9120e66a449b24090645a6898137703a&_trkparms=ispr%3D1&amdata=enc%3A1k3XIxNj7S--ZyzzCsGkS4A68
>>
>> My first (and indeed only reel-to-reel) tape recorder ('63 IIRC)
>> was:
>>
>> http://www.johansoldradios.se/tape-recorders/philips-el-3541
>>
>> Seeing the picture I can already smell its distinctive aroma of
>> warm valves and tape.
>>
>> Clive Arthur wrote:
>>
>>> I spent many a couple of hours modifying Ferrograph machines which were
>>> mostly used in offices - something to do with the main very-multipole
>>> switch being rubbish. I had an old Leevers-Rich mechanism myself but
>>> never got round to stealing^w building the electronics.
>>
>> At Radio Barnsley (Hospital Radio) we had a couple of Ferrographs
>> looking much like this:
>>
>> https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/ferrograph_series_4_4a.html
>>
>> We spent a lot of time cueing pop music from our tapes (for our
>> request programmes), and the single rotary control was a complete
>> pain for that.
>>
>> However, at least you could grasp the reels. When I first got a
>> cassette deck it felt somewhat isolating to be unable to be
>> "hands on".
>>
>> Chris
>
> A most interesting thread. The first tape recorder I got to use was
> the school's Ferrograph Series 2. This was in the mid 60s, so it was
> around 10 years old by that time. Used with a Vortexion mixer, and 3
> Reslo ribbon mics. We also had an AM tuner which took its power from
> the Ferrograph auxiliary socket.
>
> I still own a Grundig TK5, of I suppose about the same vintage, but it
> hasn't been used for many years.
>

One of our schoolmasters (my form teacher in fact), had a Ferrograph tape
recorder and this must have been one of the first TR’s I used in the late
fifties. Later I also had a couple of Reslo RB8’s and more recently, I sold
them for far more than I originally paid for them! As to Vortexion, I spent
many hours at Bulmershe College (much later became the Institute of
Education, university of Reading) in the early seventies trying to coax the
Vortexion into playing back tapes at 4 x speed to duplicate cassettes -
never was very satisfactory though the valve electronics were getting on in
age by then…
--
Toodle Pip, Mike McMillan

On 31-Mar-22 22:42, Clive Arthur wrote:
> On 31/03/2022 19:43, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>> On 31-Mar-22 18:14, Mike McMillan wrote:
>>> ICBAM but, Aunty had a policy years back whereby to ensure they were
>>> not at
>>> the ransom of one manufacturer, they specified their requirements and
>>> companies were invited to tender to supply to that specification; I
>>> think
>>> they would require three suppliers for a given product.
>>
>> I suppose that's why we ended up with speaker designs like the LS3/5 &
>> 5A.
>>
>> (There is a LS3/5a V3 still available, if you have around £2,200 to
>> spare.)
>>
>
> I still have my LS3/5A speakers bought with a staff discount.  I seem to
> recall they were £50 or £150, but maybe not - with no mortgage or kids
> and living with parents, what did money matter?
>
> They still work, though I'm sure my ears have probably degraded.
>
Given inflation over the intervening years, I wonder how your £50 or
£150 compares in purchasing power with the £2,200 current asking price?

--
Sam Plusnet

On Friday, 1 April 2022 at 19:54:06 UTC+1, Sam Plusnet wrote:
> On 31-Mar-22 22:42, Clive Arthur wrote:
> > On 31/03/2022 19:43, Sam Plusnet wrote:
> >> On 31-Mar-22 18:14, Mike McMillan wrote:
> >>> ICBAM but, Aunty had a policy years back whereby to ensure they were
> >>> not at
> >>> the ransom of one manufacturer, they specified their requirements and
> >>> companies were invited to tender to supply to that specification; I
> >>> think
> >>> they would require three suppliers for a given product.
> >>
> >> I suppose that's why we ended up with speaker designs like the LS3/5 &
> >> 5A.
> >>
> >> (There is a LS3/5a V3 still available, if you have around £2,200 to
> >> spare.)
> >>
> >
> > I still have my LS3/5A speakers bought with a staff discount. I seem to
> > recall they were £50 or £150, but maybe not - with no mortgage or kids
> > and living with parents, what did money matter?
> >
> > They still work, though I'm sure my ears have probably degraded.
> >
> Given inflation over the intervening years, I wonder how your £50 or
> £150 compares in purchasing power with the £2,200 current asking price?
>
> --
> Sam Plusnet
When my Dad was out in Borneo (1963-4) he bought a Grundig portable reel-to-
reel, which I still have and worked last time I used it...
--
Min