On Fri, 01 Apr 2022 16:26:35 +0100, whisky-dave <whisky.dave@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Friday, 1 April 2022 at 00:10:23 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> On Thu, 31 Mar 2022 15:57:53 +0100, whisky-dave <whisk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > On Tuesday, 29 March 2022 at 19:15:05 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> >> On Tue, 29 Mar 2022 13:49:03 +0100, whisky-dave <whisk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > On Wednesday, 23 March 2022 at 11:57:28 UTC, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> >> >> On Wed, 23 Mar 2022 11:52:47 -0000, TimS <timst...@greenbee.net> wrote:
>> >> >> > On 23 Mar 2022 at 09:00:57 GMT, "Commander Kinsey" <C...@nospam.com> wrote:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> I'll stick with the machines designed for adults.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Now we'll *really* larf at you. "Designed", you say? That's a joke right
>> >> >> > there. "adults" - that's even funnier.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> There's a reason Macs aren't the most popular computer.
>> >> >
>> >> > There's a reason why there's dog shit on the pavement but no gold nuggets left.
>> >> That's supply and demand. Are you saying Apple can't make enough of them?
>> >There does seem to be a shortage of iPads in the UK for the last 6 months,
>> > I think it's because of the graphic chips in short supply due to covid, as the makers shut down
>> > for quite a while. I order stuff for students and there is a shortage of some items.
>> > I've never seen shortages of hall effect sensors with a delivery date on july 2023, plus other stuff
>> > has long delivery dates. This is because they make things in batches then move on to the next product,
>> > not only that the raw materials are in short supply due to HGV driver shortages.
>> I was told graphic chips was due to bitcoin miners,
>
> who told you that,

A friend who paid £1200 for a card which was £800 last time I looked..

Even 8 year old ones have gone from £80 to £130.

> but does it matter if miners are buying up all the chiops then that is causing the shortage.

But they've been doing that for years, so it shouldn't have made a short term difference in price.

> >but that doesn't make sense, since bitcoins have been going for years.
>
> yes and with electricity prices going up that puts up the cost of mining.

Unless you steal it from the factory next door like someone did. They were invaded by the drug squad because they thought the heat was growing marijuana.

>> Covid didn't cause many problems, the senseless worry about it did.
>
> Same differnce .
> Unfortunantly someone had to protect the stupid from themselves.

No they didn't. If I want to be dangerous then let me. And look, no mask, no vaccine, still here. Since neither of those things are very effective, not surprising really.

So are you actually spending all day wearing that uncomfortable thing?

>> There cannot be a shortage of drivers, just bump up the wage and you'll get them.
>
> After at least the 8 weeks training but first you'll have to tempt them from going to univ
> were they can bum about for a few years doing very little.

Doesn't take 8 weeks if you really want to work there. And this "shortage" has been around longer than 8 weeks.

On Fri, 01 Apr 2022 16:20:01 +0100, whisky-dave <whisky.dave@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thursday, 31 March 2022 at 22:58:41 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> On Thu, 31 Mar 2022 15:37:50 +0100, whisky-dave <whisk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > On Tuesday, 29 March 2022 at 18:58:34 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> >> On Tue, 29 Mar 2022 13:40:52 +0100, whisky-dave <whisk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > On Tuesday, 22 March 2022 at 19:52:50 UTC, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> >> >> On Tue, 22 Mar 2022 13:26:50 -0000, whisky-dave <whisk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > On Monday, 21 March 2022 at 21:51:29 UTC, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> >> >> >> On Mon, 21 Mar 2022 21:38:32 -0000, TimS <timst...@greenbee.net> wrote:
>> >> >> >> > On 21 Mar 2022 at 20:24:25 GMT, "Commander Kinsey" <C...@nospam.com> wrote:
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> On Mon, 21 Mar 2022 19:12:50 -0000, TimS <timst...@greenbee.net> wrote:
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >>> On 21 Mar 2022 at 18:15:54 GMT, "Commander Kinsey" <C...@nospam.com> wrote:
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>>> On Mon, 21 Mar 2022 17:28:04 -0000, TimS <timst...@greenbee.net> wrote:
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>>>> The file system event is sent to the program to notify it that the name (and
>> >> >> >> >>>>> for a move, the path too) relating to this file handle, has changed. The
>> >> >> >> >>>>> program can handle that asynchronously.
>> >> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >> >>>> If that were true you could rename an open file in windows.
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>> Perhaps you could, in principle. But knowing that they only have to cater for
>> >> >> >> >>> dimwits like you, I imagine they couldn't be arsed. Or maybe some other
>> >> >> >> >>> rubbish aspect of their OS prevents it. Not that they're bothered - they know
>> >> >> >> >>> that dimwits like you have inadequate imagination to challenge that "the
>> >> >> >> >>> computer says no".
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> The dimwits are the ones that keep renaming stuff all the time, while they're in the middle of using it! I tend to spell it correctly in the first place. Go back to school.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > I'll pass that wise piece of advice on to those who send me files. I'll tell
>> >> >> >> > them they should have known ahead of time what name I would want to use for
>> >> >> >> > the file.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Why don't you rename it before you open it? I simply don't have this problem.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > I don't know what it is until I open it and start playing it, if it's a movie.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Someone sent me a CV I found in an email afew years ago, no idea who it was until after I opened it.
>> >> >> > Then I renamed the CV.doc to the name of the person i.e steve-prince CV.doc.
>> >> >> > then closed it.
>> >> >> > I used to send studetns an excel file called order-form, they'd send it back and it was called order-form.
>> >> >> > Imagine have 30+ order-forms , as I opened them I'd then rename them once I knew they contain something valid.
>> >> >> > Now we use google docs and I can rename any file I have open. This is handy when writing help sheets I can change the version number without having to keep opening or close the file.
>> >> >> I just close it to rename, it makes more logical sense.
>> >> >
>> >> > Doesn't seem that way to me.
>> >> Why would I want to change something I'm in the middle of?
>> >
>> > Why wouldn't you.
>> The explanation is on the next line if you would cease interrupting.
>> >> I wouldn't sell my car and buy a new one while I was driving at 70mph on the motorway. I'd stop first.
>> >
>> > Why would you need to stop to sell your car ?
>> > if you have it on ebay or wherever why can;t you be driuving it while someone orders it ?
>> And I'd hand it over to him on the move would I? Just jump into another one?
>
> Surely you can buy a car while it's being used by the current owner.

But I can't fill it with petrol or change the engine while it's running.

> I change the names of document quite often when they are still open, it;s the logical way to add version numbers
> as you go withotu having to quite the document or the app.

Do what? If I want my document to be known as something else from this point onwards, I just "save as" the new name. Then the old one is also left there for history.

> Maybe with a PC yuo have to shutdown and leave the house too before going back in and restarting then
> opening the app then the document again seems a strange way of going aboat things

I really have never needed or wanted to change the name of what I'm working on, you must be so disorganised.

On Fri, 01 Apr 2022 16:42:20 +0100, TimS <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:

> On 01 Apr 2022 at 16:20:01 BST, whisky-dave <whisky.dave@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Thursday, 31 March 2022 at 22:58:41 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>
>>> And I'd hand it over to him on the move would I? Just jump into another one?
>>
>> Surely you can buy a car while it's being used by the current owner.
>>
>> I change the names of document quite often when they are still open, it;s the logical way to add version numbers
>> as you go withotu having to quite the document or the app.
>> Maybe with a PC yuo have to shutdown and leave the house too before going back in and restarting then
>> opening the app then the document again seems a strange way of going aboat things
>
> All of Kinsey's analogies are wrong. He somehow seems to think that the
> directory entry for a file is in the file itself.

It is in an adult OS.

> Hence his irrelavent analogy
> of "changing the engine while it is running". Well if it were in the file,
> then it would certainly dangerous to rename it while open. He's not grasped
> that when you open a file, you are returned a file handle and that all
> operations on the file are done using that handle. Meanwhile the directory is
> elsewhere and completely separate. Therefore changing a directory entry is
> totally safe.
>
> In unix you can even delete a file that is open. The file won't actually be
> deleted until its use count goes to zero, that is, until all readers/writer
> have closed their file handles.

So you think you've deleted it but you're still working on it? Oh my god. So you then close the application and the file ends up being saved again. Your "deleted" file is still there!

On Fri, 01 Apr 2022 16:51:25 +0100, Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:

> TimS wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>> In unix you can even delete a file that is open. The file won't actually be
>> deleted until its use count goes to zero, that is, until all readers/writer
>> have closed their file handles.
>
> But deleting the part of the filesystem that your current profile points
> to can cause problems; akin to sitting on the the branch of the tree
> that you are cutting off.

That's an excellent analogy to all the above, whether it's possible or not. It's just not logical to change something that's being used.

On 01 Apr 2022 at 22:26:28 BST, "Commander Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:

> On Fri, 01 Apr 2022 16:42:20 +0100, TimS <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:
>
>> On 01 Apr 2022 at 16:20:01 BST, whisky-dave <whisky.dave@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Thursday, 31 March 2022 at 22:58:41 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>
>>>> And I'd hand it over to him on the move would I? Just jump into another one?
>>>
>>> Surely you can buy a car while it's being used by the current owner.
>>>
>>> I change the names of document quite often when they are still open, it;s the logical way to add version numbers
>>> as you go withotu having to quite the document or the app.
>>> Maybe with a PC yuo have to shutdown and leave the house too before going back in and restarting then
>>> opening the app then the document again seems a strange way of going aboat things
>>
>> All of Kinsey's analogies are wrong. He somehow seems to think that the
>> directory entry for a file is in the file itself.
>
> It is in an adult OS.

What a know-nothing you are. The directory entry for any file is in the
directory. This is true on any OS.

--
Tim

On 01 Apr 2022 at 16:51:25 BST, Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:

> TimS wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>> In unix you can even delete a file that is open. The file won't actually be
>> deleted until its use count goes to zero, that is, until all readers/writer
>> have closed their file handles.
>
> But deleting the part of the filesystem that your current profile points
> to can cause problems; akin to sitting on the the branch of the tree
> that you are cutting off.

I've no idea what you are even talking about. Current profile?

--
Tim

On Fri, 01 Apr 2022 22:34:41 +0100, TimS <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:

> On 01 Apr 2022 at 22:26:28 BST, "Commander Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 01 Apr 2022 16:42:20 +0100, TimS <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 01 Apr 2022 at 16:20:01 BST, whisky-dave <whisky.dave@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Thursday, 31 March 2022 at 22:58:41 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>
>>>>> And I'd hand it over to him on the move would I? Just jump into another one?
>>>>
>>>> Surely you can buy a car while it's being used by the current owner.
>>>>
>>>> I change the names of document quite often when they are still open, it;s the logical way to add version numbers
>>>> as you go withotu having to quite the document or the app.
>>>> Maybe with a PC yuo have to shutdown and leave the house too before going back in and restarting then
>>>> opening the app then the document again seems a strange way of going aboat things
>>>
>>> All of Kinsey's analogies are wrong. He somehow seems to think that the
>>> directory entry for a file is in the file itself.
>>
>> It is in an adult OS.
>
> What a know-nothing you are. The directory entry for any file is in the
> directory. This is true on any OS.

Don't be so pedantic. The point is the filename is used to access the file. Which is why Windows won't let you rename it while it's in use, or the program wouldn't be able to find it.

On Fri, 01 Apr 2022 21:31:53 +0100, TimS <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:

> On 01 Apr 2022 at 17:01:55 BST, whisky-dave <whisky.dave@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Friday, 1 April 2022 at 00:18:24 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>
>>> We got loads of PCs because Autodesk Inventor wasn't on the Mac.
>>
>> You can run it on a Mac under emulation.
>
> Not even emulation. Just use a VM. I use VirtualBox on my Mac to run Win7,
> Win10, and a Linux flavour for testing my software (OTOH, I have a real Pi for
> testing).

Might aswell have the real thing the software is designed for. And run it on cheaper more customisable machines too. And it was really funny to watch two very large design teachers fighting over which computers they should buy. They were almost at the point of fisticuffs. I told them it wasn't their decision and invited them to beat me up instead, but the offer was declined.

On Fri, 01 Apr 2022 17:01:55 +0100, whisky-dave <whisky.dave@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Friday, 1 April 2022 at 00:18:24 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> On Thu, 31 Mar 2022 16:34:13 +0100, whisky-dave <whisk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > On Tuesday, 29 March 2022 at 19:43:15 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> >> On Tue, 29 Mar 2022 15:18:56 +0100, whisky-dave <whisk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > On Wednesday, 23 March 2022 at 12:18:54 UTC, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> >> >> On Wed, 23 Mar 2022 12:10:10 -0000, TimS <timst...@greenbee.net> wrote:
>> >> >> > On 23 Mar 2022 at 11:57:25 GMT, "Commander Kinsey" <C...@nospam.com> wrote:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> On Wed, 23 Mar 2022 11:52:47 -0000, TimS <timst...@greenbee.net> wrote:
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>> On 23 Mar 2022 at 09:00:57 GMT, "Commander Kinsey" <C...@nospam.com> wrote:
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>>> I'll stick with the machines designed for adults.
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> Now we'll *really* larf at you. "Designed", you say? That's a joke right
>> >> >> >>> there. "adults" - that's even funnier.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> There's a reason Macs aren't the most popular computer.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > And you haven't figured out what it is. And see my sig below.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Bullshit in the extreme. Customers choose what's best value. Macs aren't.
>> >> >
>> >> > What is best value to one person doesn't have to be best value to another.
>> >> Performance, calculations per second, versus money. Very simple.
>> >
>> > I'ts no where near that simple if you think about it.
>> > If the software is crap or bloated then alla fast processor will do is provide you with a nice heater.
>> Software will be better for something more widespread. More customers, more competition.
>
> yeah sure so McD's is the best resturant .
> Best clothes .. Tescos
> sainsbury blended scotch best whisky there is ..

Bad analogy. With software, the software companies are creating something that works with a certain computer. It's like a whisky company choosing what outlets to sell in.

>> >> > I can't drink bells or teachers (well not easily) my prefered standard whisky is Grants but it is more expensive.
>> >> > I have a 1 litre bottle of the 50% but don't like it.
>> >> > My prefered whisky is Isle of Jura , so you're telling me that Bells is a better whisky than Isle of Jura because it;s cheaper.
>> >> I drink alcohol for the amount of alcohol, I can always add mixers. Just as if a PC is more powerful but has less bells and whistles, I just install some software.
>> >
>> > Shows you how little you understand then.
>> About alcohol? It's a simple chemical, ethanol, that's what give you the effect.
>
> There's taste too,

You can add the taste, it's called a mixer for you posh folk.

> you can get drunk on meths .

That's methanol. Ethanol with side effects. Anything containing ethanol has the same effect as anything else contianing ethanol.

>> >> > Well to get drunk quickly my prefereed drink was thunderbird wine .
>> >> > In a pub it was snakebite & black, or hairy chest (PiLs + blackcurrent + vodka)
>> >> When I was a young teenager, me and a friend both had a bottle of white lightning each on a camping trip.
>> >
>> > My ex flatemates favourite tipple, she drank 3 cans in an evening, poor girl died at 42 years old enlarged heart or something.
>> > Not saying that was the cause but I don't think it helped.
>> I've never heard of heart trouble from alcohol,
>
> Excessive alcohol intake can lead to high blood pressure,

Is the second figure being 120 too high?

> heart failure or stroke. Excessive drinking can also contribute to cardiomyopathy, a disorder that affects the heart muscle. What's more, alcohol can contribute to obesity and the long list of health problems that can go along with it.

Pah, you can cure obesity with exercise. Sex is exercise right?

>> I thought it always went for the liver? My ex's brother got blind drunk every night, he needed a liver transplant at 30.
>> >> > You're allowed to choose which computer you want as a memebr of admin, academic or research staff.
>> >> > Who also get what they want for use at home.
>> >> > Most appear to choose a Macbook air as a general purpose laptop.
>> >> I encouraged PCs. Some stuck to Macs, but 3/4s of them changed to PCs when I have the a reasoned argument. Mainly due to price and availability of software.
>
> Depends what they are doing. Most artists, music, film video prefer Mac , due to higher quality displays as standard and less latancy with audio.

Bullshit. The soundcard and display are both seperate items.

>> > That is true but I don't think you can get final cut pro on a PC or logic pro.
>> There will be something similar.
>
> There is but not the same.
> Just like all sotfware ther;e very similar stuff to word and excel and that is google docs.

Similar enough.

On Fri, 01 Apr 2022 17:01:55 +0100, whisky-dave <whisky.dave@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Friday, 1 April 2022 at 00:18:24 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> On Thu, 31 Mar 2022 16:34:13 +0100, whisky-dave <whisk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Adobe creative suite is now a sunscription packge Mac & PC.
>> Adobe is available on both, but it's overpriced shit.
>
> It works and lots seem to resonabley happy with it.

Not if they paid for it. A long time ago we used JASC Paintshop Pro instead of Adobe Photoshop. A third of the price, several times faster, and easier to use. Then Corel bought JASC. Paintshop Pro now takes 30 SECONDS to load on a very fast computer. When I complained, their excuse was Photoshop was the same speed. 30 seconds, WTF?

>> >> > But us technicains don;t get a choice we get what the lab uses.
>> >> > So I said well since ~1992 I was told I'm the Mac person and supported Mac users.
>> >> > Then the head of department said Apple are going out of business because their computers are crap.
>> >> > And we all know how badly their businness is going don't we.
>> >> It did go badly at one point, just before Jobs I believe. Then he conned everyone into thinking it was great.
>> >
>> > Because it was.
>> You sound like a religious nut.
>
> Nah, I just prefer the Mac OS

It's got an interface like Fischer Price toys.

> and the hardware that's all.

Same hardware identically. So identical that you can run Mac OS on a PC if you pick the right components, and it's free! Apple are too stupid to prevent copying.

>> >> > So I opted for any old Mac that was considered to be not usuable, so I was given this ex research student machine,
>> >> > complete with software from ~2015, of course after 3 years most PCs are considered worthless and spend most
>> >> > of their time being repaired or out of action like the 4 of the 92 PCs in the lab which will be 3 years old in August.
>> >> >
>> >> > But this 2011 iMac still going, no replacement HD or graphics card or display, or mouse or anything else,
>> >> > not had to re-install OS or anything else, just updated the RAM and it's almost 11 years old.
>> >> > Given the choice I'd rather have a 11 year old Mac than a 3 year old PC.
>> >> As a technician you should have bought what you wanted. I had a £1800 PC. Nice fast graphics for games.... er research.
>> >
>> > Being a technician I can do things on either mac or PC.
>> > I just don;t like wondows much.
>> I can do things on both, I just use more swearwords on a Mac.
>> >> >> This is the big problem: PCs are made by thousands of different companies.
>> >> >
>> >> > yes and a big problem for MS and a few students have come to me saying their PC that they bought just before covid hit can't run windows 11 because of some chip incompatability .
>> >> I have 7 PCs running it, up to 12 years old. I don't know what the fuck MS are playing at but it doesn't need the TPM security shit they claim. It's only checked during setup. Search for a free program called Rufus. It will create a bootable USB stick which will install or upgrade any Windows PC to windows 11.
>> >
>> > Not my problem . I'm not sure whether the software we have will run under W11 took a whiloe to get it all running under W10
>> It will. Windows 11 is really 10.0.2. Same drivers and software works precisely the same.
>> >> >> Macs are made by one. No competition
>> >> >
>> >> > A distinct advantage their own prosessor too making sure everything works together with dedicated software,
>> >> > one size doesn;t fit all does it.
>> >> PCs work together just fine. They use agreed standards.
>> >
>> > which aren't always followed. there's always differncies between which processor is used ITEL, AMD etc..
>> Intel and AMD actually have an agreement to keep the processor instructions compatible.
>
> yeah sure they do, think you're getting comfused with RISC and ARM.

No I'm not. Look it up. It's why only AMD and Intel make PC CPUs. Nobody else has the rights to the designs.

>> >> > Nothing wrong with making things people want to buy is there.
>> >> > Unless you're a woolworths shopper, suprised ASDA, Lidel, Adli still make a profit.
>> >> They don't make their own stuff, they're just resellers, just like every PC manufacturer is.
>> >
>> > Yep.
>> >
>> >> > I buy some of there stuff but some there's jusy no taste it's cheap stuff not worth buying unless you're really hard up.
>> >> > There veggie sausage rolls at £2 taste like cardboard compared to the same type in sainsbury at £2.60
>> >> > They may look the same have very similar packaging but.. just not worth it.
>> >> Agreed. I use Tesco. They're the only one that makes very tasty high fat cottage cheese. This modern low fat shit tastes like water.
>> >> >> your wallet is emptied.
>> >> > hardly emptied .
>> >> Double the price of a PC!
>> >
>> > Because they are worth twice as much.
>> > The displays on Macs are far better than the displays on most PC's it's why they are cheaper.
>> >
>> > Put them side by side watch a movie compare the skin tones and everything else
>> > some such as photograhers care about.
>> >
>> > It's like me after the pub a kebab is great best thing ever but I can't eat them unless drunk or at least tipsy.
>> A display is not the computer. I'm free to use an Apple display on a PC or a PC display on a Mac.
>
> But an imac is cheaper than getting a PC and a Mac quality monitor.

Bullshit.

>> I did both quite often actually.
>> >> > But while I have this iMac all the PC's ahve been replaced twice now and they'll need replacing again soon.
>> >> Bullshit, they don't wear out any quicker, and they have the same specs as Apples when they're bought.
>> >
>> > They don't have the same specs, there's far more too it than the hight the GBs and GHz to it.
>> >
>> > Same with % alachol.
>> > 40% vodka and 40% whisky aren't the same.
>> >
>> > You can;lt tell me all whiskies are the same whether it's glenfiddich or jack daniels.
>> Why consider flavour and % together? Get lots of % then add flavour.
>
> you mean add orange juice to a single malt well no thanks.

Doesn't have to be orange juice.

On 01 Apr 2022 at 22:41:10 BST, "Commander Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:

> On Fri, 01 Apr 2022 22:34:41 +0100, TimS <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:
>
>> On 01 Apr 2022 at 22:26:28 BST, "Commander Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 01 Apr 2022 16:42:20 +0100, TimS <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 01 Apr 2022 at 16:20:01 BST, whisky-dave <whisky.dave@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Thursday, 31 March 2022 at 22:58:41 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> And I'd hand it over to him on the move would I? Just jump into another one?
>>>>>
>>>>> Surely you can buy a car while it's being used by the current owner.
>>>>>
>>>>> I change the names of document quite often when they are still open, it;s the logical way to add version numbers
>>>>> as you go withotu having to quite the document or the app.
>>>>> Maybe with a PC yuo have to shutdown and leave the house too before going back in and restarting then
>>>>> opening the app then the document again seems a strange way of going aboat things
>>>>
>>>> All of Kinsey's analogies are wrong. He somehow seems to think that the
>>>> directory entry for a file is in the file itself.
>>>
>>> It is in an adult OS.
>>
>> What a know-nothing you are. The directory entry for any file is in the
>> directory. This is true on any OS.
>
> Don't be so pedantic. The point is the filename is used to access the file.

After the file has been opened, the name is not needed for subsequent I/O
operations.

> Which is why Windows won't let you rename it while it's in use, or the program wouldn't be able to find it.

Y'know, Commander, you really ought to put in for a demotion. You'd be bound
to get it. Imagine, a career as powder-monkey third class awaits you!

--
Tim

On Sat, 02 Apr 2022 19:40:34 +0100, TimS <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:

> On 01 Apr 2022 at 22:41:10 BST, "Commander Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 01 Apr 2022 22:34:41 +0100, TimS <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 01 Apr 2022 at 22:26:28 BST, "Commander Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, 01 Apr 2022 16:42:20 +0100, TimS <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 01 Apr 2022 at 16:20:01 BST, whisky-dave <whisky.dave@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thursday, 31 March 2022 at 22:58:41 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> And I'd hand it over to him on the move would I? Just jump into another one?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Surely you can buy a car while it's being used by the current owner.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I change the names of document quite often when they are still open, it;s the logical way to add version numbers
>>>>>> as you go withotu having to quite the document or the app.
>>>>>> Maybe with a PC yuo have to shutdown and leave the house too before going back in and restarting then
>>>>>> opening the app then the document again seems a strange way of going aboat things
>>>>>
>>>>> All of Kinsey's analogies are wrong. He somehow seems to think that the
>>>>> directory entry for a file is in the file itself.
>>>>
>>>> It is in an adult OS.
>>>
>>> What a know-nothing you are. The directory entry for any file is in the
>>> directory. This is true on any OS.
>>
>> Don't be so pedantic. The point is the filename is used to access the file.
>
> After the file has been opened, the name is not needed for subsequent I/O
> operations.
>
>> Which is why Windows won't let you rename it while it's in use, or the program wouldn't be able to find it.
>
> Y'know, Commander, you really ought to put in for a demotion. You'd be bound
> to get it. Imagine, a career as powder-monkey third class awaits you!

Love to see your explanation as to why Windows doesn't let you....

On 02 Apr 2022 at 19:46:36 BST, "Commander Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:

> On Sat, 02 Apr 2022 19:40:34 +0100, TimS <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:
>
>> On 01 Apr 2022 at 22:41:10 BST, "Commander Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 01 Apr 2022 22:34:41 +0100, TimS <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 01 Apr 2022 at 22:26:28 BST, "Commander Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, 01 Apr 2022 16:42:20 +0100, TimS <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 01 Apr 2022 at 16:20:01 BST, whisky-dave <whisky.dave@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thursday, 31 March 2022 at 22:58:41 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And I'd hand it over to him on the move would I? Just jump into another one?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Surely you can buy a car while it's being used by the current owner.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I change the names of document quite often when they are still open, it;s the logical way to add version numbers
>>>>>>> as you go withotu having to quite the document or the app.
>>>>>>> Maybe with a PC yuo have to shutdown and leave the house too before going back in and restarting then
>>>>>>> opening the app then the document again seems a strange way of going aboat things
>>>>>>
>>>>>> All of Kinsey's analogies are wrong. He somehow seems to think that the
>>>>>> directory entry for a file is in the file itself.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is in an adult OS.
>>>>
>>>> What a know-nothing you are. The directory entry for any file is in the
>>>> directory. This is true on any OS.
>>>
>>> Don't be so pedantic. The point is the filename is used to access the file.
>>
>> After the file has been opened, the name is not needed for subsequent I/O
>> operations.
>>
>>> Which is why Windows won't let you rename it while it's in use, or the program wouldn't be able to find it.
>>
>> Y'know, Commander, you really ought to put in for a demotion. You'd be bound
>> to get it. Imagine, a career as powder-monkey third class awaits you!
>
> Love to see your explanation as to why Windows doesn't let you....

There isn't one other than that The Computer Says No.

--
Tim

On Sat, 02 Apr 2022 21:15:08 +0100, TimS <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:

> On 02 Apr 2022 at 19:46:36 BST, "Commander Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 02 Apr 2022 19:40:34 +0100, TimS <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 01 Apr 2022 at 22:41:10 BST, "Commander Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, 01 Apr 2022 22:34:41 +0100, TimS <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 01 Apr 2022 at 22:26:28 BST, "Commander Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, 01 Apr 2022 16:42:20 +0100, TimS <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 01 Apr 2022 at 16:20:01 BST, whisky-dave <whisky.dave@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Thursday, 31 March 2022 at 22:58:41 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And I'd hand it over to him on the move would I? Just jump into another one?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Surely you can buy a car while it's being used by the current owner.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I change the names of document quite often when they are still open, it;s the logical way to add version numbers
>>>>>>>> as you go withotu having to quite the document or the app.
>>>>>>>> Maybe with a PC yuo have to shutdown and leave the house too before going back in and restarting then
>>>>>>>> opening the app then the document again seems a strange way of going aboat things
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> All of Kinsey's analogies are wrong. He somehow seems to think that the
>>>>>>> directory entry for a file is in the file itself.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It is in an adult OS.
>>>>>
>>>>> What a know-nothing you are. The directory entry for any file is in the
>>>>> directory. This is true on any OS.
>>>>
>>>> Don't be so pedantic. The point is the filename is used to access the file.
>>>
>>> After the file has been opened, the name is not needed for subsequent I/O
>>> operations.
>>>
>>>> Which is why Windows won't let you rename it while it's in use, or the program wouldn't be able to find it.
>>>
>>> Y'know, Commander, you really ought to put in for a demotion. You'd be bound
>>> to get it. Imagine, a career as powder-monkey third class awaits you!
>>
>> Love to see your explanation as to why Windows doesn't let you....
>
> There isn't one other than that The Computer Says No.

Or they never realised someone would want to do something so idiotic.

On 03 Apr 2022 at 04:20:49 BST, "Commander Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:

> On Sat, 02 Apr 2022 21:15:08 +0100, TimS <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:
>
>> On 02 Apr 2022 at 19:46:36 BST, "Commander Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 02 Apr 2022 19:40:34 +0100, TimS <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 01 Apr 2022 at 22:41:10 BST, "Commander Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, 01 Apr 2022 22:34:41 +0100, TimS <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 01 Apr 2022 at 22:26:28 BST, "Commander Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, 01 Apr 2022 16:42:20 +0100, TimS <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 01 Apr 2022 at 16:20:01 BST, whisky-dave <whisky.dave@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, 31 March 2022 at 22:58:41 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> And I'd hand it over to him on the move would I? Just jump into another one?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Surely you can buy a car while it's being used by the current owner.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I change the names of document quite often when they are still open, it;s the logical way to add version numbers
>>>>>>>>> as you go withotu having to quite the document or the app.
>>>>>>>>> Maybe with a PC yuo have to shutdown and leave the house too before going back in and restarting then
>>>>>>>>> opening the app then the document again seems a strange way of going aboat things
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> All of Kinsey's analogies are wrong. He somehow seems to think that the
>>>>>>>> directory entry for a file is in the file itself.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It is in an adult OS.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What a know-nothing you are. The directory entry for any file is in the
>>>>>> directory. This is true on any OS.
>>>>>
>>>>> Don't be so pedantic. The point is the filename is used to access the file.
>>>>
>>>> After the file has been opened, the name is not needed for subsequent I/O
>>>> operations.
>>>>
>>>>> Which is why Windows won't let you rename it while it's in use, or the program wouldn't be able to find it.
>>>>
>>>> Y'know, Commander, you really ought to put in for a demotion. You'd be bound
>>>> to get it. Imagine, a career as powder-monkey third class awaits you!
>>>
>>> Love to see your explanation as to why Windows doesn't let you....
>>
>> There isn't one other than that The Computer Says No.
>
> Or they never realised someone would want to do something so idiotic.

I think the man on the Clapham omnibus would disagree. Of course, many these
days are brainwashed by bollocks Windows propaganda put about by such as you.

--
Tim

On Sun, 03 Apr 2022 11:30:37 +0100, TimS <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:

> On 03 Apr 2022 at 04:20:49 BST, "Commander Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 02 Apr 2022 21:15:08 +0100, TimS <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 02 Apr 2022 at 19:46:36 BST, "Commander Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sat, 02 Apr 2022 19:40:34 +0100, TimS <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 01 Apr 2022 at 22:41:10 BST, "Commander Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, 01 Apr 2022 22:34:41 +0100, TimS <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 01 Apr 2022 at 22:26:28 BST, "Commander Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Fri, 01 Apr 2022 16:42:20 +0100, TimS <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 01 Apr 2022 at 16:20:01 BST, whisky-dave <whisky.dave@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, 31 March 2022 at 22:58:41 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> And I'd hand it over to him on the move would I? Just jump into another one?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Surely you can buy a car while it's being used by the current owner.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I change the names of document quite often when they are still open, it;s the logical way to add version numbers
>>>>>>>>>> as you go withotu having to quite the document or the app.
>>>>>>>>>> Maybe with a PC yuo have to shutdown and leave the house too before going back in and restarting then
>>>>>>>>>> opening the app then the document again seems a strange way of going aboat things
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> All of Kinsey's analogies are wrong. He somehow seems to think that the
>>>>>>>>> directory entry for a file is in the file itself.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It is in an adult OS.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What a know-nothing you are. The directory entry for any file is in the
>>>>>>> directory. This is true on any OS.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Don't be so pedantic. The point is the filename is used to access the file.
>>>>>
>>>>> After the file has been opened, the name is not needed for subsequent I/O
>>>>> operations.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Which is why Windows won't let you rename it while it's in use, or the program wouldn't be able to find it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Y'know, Commander, you really ought to put in for a demotion. You'd be bound
>>>>> to get it. Imagine, a career as powder-monkey third class awaits you!
>>>>
>>>> Love to see your explanation as to why Windows doesn't let you....
>>>
>>> There isn't one other than that The Computer Says No.
>>
>> Or they never realised someone would want to do something so idiotic.
>
> I think the man on the Clapham omnibus would disagree. Of course, many these
> days are brainwashed by bollocks Windows propaganda put about by such as you.

Windows does what I ask it to. I don't listen to any propaganda, which is why I don't panic about covid or believe in god or climate change. If I didn't like Windows, I'd use Linux or Mac, but they're shit.

On Saturday, 2 April 2022 at 05:10:44 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> On Fri, 01 Apr 2022 17:01:55 +0100, whisky-dave <whisk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Friday, 1 April 2022 at 00:18:24 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> >> On Thu, 31 Mar 2022 16:34:13 +0100, whisky-dave <whisk...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Adobe creative suite is now a sunscription packge Mac & PC.
> >> Adobe is available on both, but it's overpriced shit.
> >
> > It works and lots seem to resonabley happy with it.
> Not if they paid for it.

Most do.

> A long time ago we used JASC Paintshop Pro instead of Adobe Photoshop. A third of the price, several times faster, and easier to use. Then Corel bought JASC. Paintshop Pro now takes 30 SECONDS to load on a very fast computer. When I complained, their excuse was Photoshop was the same speed. 30 seconds, WTF?

I use affinity photo, I prefer photoshop but for the amount of times I use it I find I don't actualy need it.
I don;t feel teh need for lightroom or all the other things you get.

> >> >> > But us technicains don;t get a choice we get what the lab uses.
> >> >> > So I said well since ~1992 I was told I'm the Mac person and supported Mac users.
> >> >> > Then the head of department said Apple are going out of business because their computers are crap.
> >> >> > And we all know how badly their businness is going don't we.
> >> >> It did go badly at one point, just before Jobs I believe. Then he conned everyone into thinking it was great.
> >> >
> >> > Because it was.
> >> You sound like a religious nut.
> >
> > Nah, I just prefer the Mac OS
> It's got an interface like Fischer Price toys.

and windows keeps trying to copy it.

> > and the hardware that's all.
> Same hardware identically. So identical that you can run Mac OS on a PC if you pick the right components, and it's free! Apple are too stupid to prevent copying.

They don't need to whybother when teh software is free. few waste their time and energy trying to make
Mac OS run on crap hardware what's the point.
Mac clones have failed to get any market share.
I know peolpe that run Windows on a Mac because it runs better than it does on a standard PC.

> >> >> > So I opted for any old Mac that was considered to be not usuable, so I was given this ex research student machine,
> >> >> > complete with software from ~2015, of course after 3 years most PCs are considered worthless and spend most
> >> >> > of their time being repaired or out of action like the 4 of the 92 PCs in the lab which will be 3 years old in August.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > But this 2011 iMac still going, no replacement HD or graphics card or display, or mouse or anything else,
> >> >> > not had to re-install OS or anything else, just updated the RAM and it's almost 11 years old.
> >> >> > Given the choice I'd rather have a 11 year old Mac than a 3 year old PC.
> >> >> As a technician you should have bought what you wanted. I had a £1800 PC. Nice fast graphics for games.... er research.
> >> >
> >> > Being a technician I can do things on either mac or PC.
> >> > I just don;t like wondows much.
> >> I can do things on both, I just use more swearwords on a Mac.
> >> >> >> This is the big problem: PCs are made by thousands of different companies.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > yes and a big problem for MS and a few students have come to me saying their PC that they bought just before covid hit can't run windows 11 because of some chip incompatability .
> >> >> I have 7 PCs running it, up to 12 years old. I don't know what the fuck MS are playing at but it doesn't need the TPM security shit they claim.. It's only checked during setup. Search for a free program called Rufus. It will create a bootable USB stick which will install or upgrade any Windows PC to windows 11.
> >> >
> >> > Not my problem . I'm not sure whether the software we have will run under W11 took a whiloe to get it all running under W10
> >> It will. Windows 11 is really 10.0.2. Same drivers and software works precisely the same.
> >> >> >> Macs are made by one. No competition
> >> >> >
> >> >> > A distinct advantage their own prosessor too making sure everything works together with dedicated software,
> >> >> > one size doesn;t fit all does it.
> >> >> PCs work together just fine. They use agreed standards.
> >> >
> >> > which aren't always followed. there's always differncies between which processor is used ITEL, AMD etc..
> >> Intel and AMD actually have an agreement to keep the processor instructions compatible.
> >
> > yeah sure they do, think you're getting comfused with RISC and ARM.
> No I'm not. Look it up. It's why only AMD and Intel make PC CPUs. Nobody else has the rights to the designs.

Anyone can 'make' a PC. PC just means personal computer.
samsung , epson used to , viglen too. Apple makes their own M1 chip it's still a personal computer chip.
ie. it's not a multi-user system.
And it can run windows.

> >> >> > Nothing wrong with making things people want to buy is there.
> >> >> > Unless you're a woolworths shopper, suprised ASDA, Lidel, Adli still make a profit.
> >> >> They don't make their own stuff, they're just resellers, just like every PC manufacturer is.
> >> >
> >> > Yep.
> >> >
> >> >> > I buy some of there stuff but some there's jusy no taste it's cheap stuff not worth buying unless you're really hard up.
> >> >> > There veggie sausage rolls at £2 taste like cardboard compared to the same type in sainsbury at £2.60
> >> >> > They may look the same have very similar packaging but.. just not worth it.
> >> >> Agreed. I use Tesco. They're the only one that makes very tasty high fat cottage cheese. This modern low fat shit tastes like water.
> >> >> >> your wallet is emptied.
> >> >> > hardly emptied .
> >> >> Double the price of a PC!
> >> >
> >> > Because they are worth twice as much.
> >> > The displays on Macs are far better than the displays on most PC's it's why they are cheaper.
> >> >
> >> > Put them side by side watch a movie compare the skin tones and everything else
> >> > some such as photograhers care about.
> >> >
> >> > It's like me after the pub a kebab is great best thing ever but I can't eat them unless drunk or at least tipsy.
> >> A display is not the computer. I'm free to use an Apple display on a PC or a PC display on a Mac.
> >
> > But an imac is cheaper than getting a PC and a Mac quality monitor.
> Bullshit.

prove it .
Link to a 5k screen of at least 24" and not one of those crap ones that are highb speed but the colours
only sutable for gamers and those doing pie charts.

> >> I did both quite often actually.
> >> >> > But while I have this iMac all the PC's ahve been replaced twice now and they'll need replacing again soon.
> >> >> Bullshit, they don't wear out any quicker, and they have the same specs as Apples when they're bought.
> >> >
> >> > They don't have the same specs, there's far more too it than the hight the GBs and GHz to it.
> >> >
> >> > Same with % alachol.
> >> > 40% vodka and 40% whisky aren't the same.
> >> >
> >> > You can;lt tell me all whiskies are the same whether it's glenfiddich or jack daniels.
> >> Why consider flavour and % together? Get lots of % then add flavour.
> >
> > you mean add orange juice to a single malt well no thanks.
> Doesn't have to be orange juice.

I perfer the flavour of whisky, although I do drink JD & cola.

In article <c68ade47-910e-4f48-ad1a-b214c33f5532n@googlegroups.com>,
whisky-dave <whisky.dave@gmail.com> wrote:

> Apple makes their own M1 chip it's
> still a personal computer chip.
> ie. it's not a multi-user system.

it absolutely is a multi-user system

On Monday, 4 April 2022 at 22:10:09 UTC+1, nospam wrote:
> In article <c68ade47-910e-4f48...@googlegroups.com>,
> whisky-dave <whisk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Apple makes their own M1 chip it's
> > still a personal computer chip.
> > ie. it's not a multi-user system.
> it absolutely is a multi-user system

Multi-user is a term used to describe a computer that more than one person can use at the
same time the Mac is not set up to do that which is why it's still classed as a personal computer.
But like windows you can have more than one person have an account on it.

In article <c68ade47-910e-4f48-ad1a-b214c33f5532n@googlegroups.com>,
whisky-dave <whisky.dave@gmail.com> wrote:

>Anyone can 'make' a PC. PC just means personal computer.
>samsung , epson used to , viglen too. Apple makes their own M1 chip
>it's still a personal computer chip.
>ie. it's not a multi-user system.

Personal computers have been multi-user systems for decades.

-- Richard

On Tuesday, 5 April 2022 at 13:40:03 UTC+1, Richard Tobin wrote:
> In article <c68ade47-910e-4f48...@googlegroups.com>,
> whisky-dave <whisk...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >Anyone can 'make' a PC. PC just means personal computer.
> >samsung , epson used to , viglen too. Apple makes their own M1 chip
> >it's still a personal computer chip.
> >ie. it's not a multi-user system.
> Personal computers have been multi-user systems for decades.
>
> -- Richard

Then multi-users computers are personal computers then.

Or in the real world multi-user computers :-
Refers to computer systems that support two or more simultaneous users. All mainframes and minicomputers are multi-user systems, but most personal computers and workstations are not. Another term for multi-user is time sharing.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/multiuser

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classes_of_computers

Just because more than one person can log on it doesn't make it a multi-user computer.

Here I'm talking about the computer NOT the software.

In article <34052240-9eb9-4ba1-ac82-9576966e2024n@googlegroups.com>,
whisky-dave <whisky.dave@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > Apple makes their own M1 chip it's
> > > still a personal computer chip.
> > > ie. it's not a multi-user system.
> > it absolutely is a multi-user system
>
> Multi-user is a term used to describe a computer that more than one person
> can use at the
> same time

nope. it's a term used to describe a computer that more than one
*user*, which is not necessarily a person.

there are numerous background tasks running as different users (uid)
than the person using it, including root.

> the Mac is not set up to do that

yes it is, out of the box.

> which is why it's still classed
> as a personal computer.

separate issue.

> But like windows you can have more than one person have an account on it.

irrelevant.

In article <de8cdc39-c872-425d-bf25-831c651ffa70n@googlegroups.com>,
whisky-dave <whisky.dave@gmail.com> wrote:

> > >Anyone can 'make' a PC. PC just means personal computer.
> > >samsung , epson used to , viglen too. Apple makes their own M1 chip
> > >it's still a personal computer chip.
> > >ie. it's not a multi-user system.
> > Personal computers have been multi-user systems for decades.

>
> Then multi-users computers are personal computers then.

some are.

> Or in the real world multi-user computers :-
> Refers to computer systems that support two or more simultaneous users.

which includes personal computers.

> All
> mainframes and minicomputers are multi-user systems, but most personal
> computers and workstations are not.

false.

> Another term for multi-user is time
> sharing.

generally, yes.

> https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/multiuser
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classes_of_computers
>
> Just because more than one person can log on it doesn't make it a multi-user
> computer.

at the same time, yes it does, however, that's not the defining reason.

> Here I'm talking about the computer NOT the software.

the software is what matters.

mac os and other unix systems can boot into single user mode. guess
what that means.

nospam wrote:
> In article <34052240-9eb9-4ba1-ac82-9576966e2024n@googlegroups.com>,
> whisky-dave <whisky.dave@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>>> Apple makes their own M1 chip it's
>>>> still a personal computer chip.
>>>> ie. it's not a multi-user system.
>>> it absolutely is a multi-user system
>>
>> Multi-user is a term used to describe a computer that more than one person
>> can use at the
>> same time
>
> nope. it's a term used to describe a computer that more than one
> *user*, which is not necessarily a person.

I think the proper definition would then be multi-tasking, or
multi-processing.

Multi-user to me would mean simultaneous use by two or more people.

--
Graham J

In article <t2htp3$nv8$1@dont-email.me>, Graham J
<nobody@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:

> >>>> Apple makes their own M1 chip it's
> >>>> still a personal computer chip.
> >>>> ie. it's not a multi-user system.
> >>> it absolutely is a multi-user system
> >>
> >> Multi-user is a term used to describe a computer that more than one
> >> person
> >> can use at the
> >> same time
> >
> > nope. it's a term used to describe a computer that more than one
> > *user*, which is not necessarily a person.
>
> I think the proper definition would then be multi-tasking, or
> multi-processing.
>
> Multi-user to me would mean simultaneous use by two or more people.

maybe to you, but that's not the industry definition.

unix systems by definition are multi-user, and that includes mac os.

keep in mind that additional users can ssh into a mac at any time
(assuming ssh is enabled, of course). which means two or more people
can use it at the same time.