Yes those days have passed.

Brian

--

This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Don Stockbauer" <donstockbauer@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:f893ef2b-8e08-4ecc-b018-e89d763b783en@googlegroups.com...
> On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 5:03:29 PM UTC-6, Peter wrote:
>> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <ste...@eircom.net> wrote in
>> news:20220210213739.5905...@eircom.net:
>> > On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 21:22:59 -0000 (UTC)
>> > Peter <mys...@prune.org.uk> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Nick Odell <ni...@themusicworkshop.plus.com> wrote in
>> >> news:fiua0h1lsd2alj3pg...@4ax.com:
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> > ...or mining cryptocurrency. Currently (see what I did there?)
>> >> > using more energy than all of Finland and on the rise.
>> >>
>> >> A week or two ago a bloke told me of the vast profits he was going to
>> >> make from his cryptomining rig. I suggested he keep a close eye on
>> >> his leccy ovyyf.
>> >
>> > Unless it's a botnet controller, or mid range super computer he's
>> > unlikely to make anything out of it, but I'll bet whoever sold him the
>> > rig did - do Filson's sell computers now ?
>> He was confident of clearing 1K zu a day, once he'd got it going. I think
>> he will be disappointed.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Peter
>> -----
>
> I believe that the more abstract your money and currency is the easier it
> is to bilk you out of your money.

Peter said:
> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote in
>> Peter <myshed@prune.org.uk> wrote:
>>> Nick Odell <nick@themusicworkshop.plus.com> wrote in
>>>
>>> > ...or mining cryptocurrency. Currently (see what I did there?)
>>> > using more energy than all of Finland and on the rise.
>>>
>>> A week or two ago a bloke told me of the vast profits he was going to
>>> make from his cryptomining rig. I suggested he keep a close eye on
>>> his leccy ovyyf.
>>
>> Unless it's a botnet controller, or mid range super computer he's
>> unlikely to make anything out of it, but I'll bet whoever sold him the
>> rig did - do Filson's sell computers now ?
>
> He was confident of clearing 1K zu a day, once he'd got it going. I think
> he will be disappointed.

How long will it take him to get the result ?

--
Richard Robinson
"The whole plan hinged upon the natural curiosity of potatoes" - S. Lem

My email address is at http://qualmograph.org.uk/contact.html

On 10/02/2022 11:45, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 10:24:53 +0000
> nev young <newsforpasiphae1953@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> But you don't need to conserve it because it's renewable energy.
>> Says so in the name.
>
> Thermodynics, third law - there ain't no such thing as renewable
> energy it's all running on universal expansion cooling.
>
Looks like I needed to append the irony emoji on my previous post.

--
Nev
It causes me a great deal of regret and remorse
that so many people are unable to understand what I write.

On 10/02/2022 15:41, Peter wrote:
> Nick Odell <nick@themusicworkshop.plus.com> wrote in
> news:787a0htltjo6fdveirdqui5321bp4dc907@4ax.com:
>
>> That's all very well in theory but to make something like that work
>> you'd need a reactor about 333,000 times more massive than Earth and
>> you'd need to locate it of the order of 1 Astronomical Unit away from
>> any people.
>
> Already on it. At present it's providing about a third of my household
> energy needs; from Spring to Autumn I have plenty of spare energy to
> sell.
>
I've bought a great big flattery to store my excess PV energy so I can
use it later.

--
Nev
It causes me a great deal of regret and remorse
that so many people are unable to understand what I write.

On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 14:51:23 +0000, Ahem A Rivet's Shot
<steveo@eircom.net> wrote:

>On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 14:14:38 +0000
>Nick Odell <nick@themusicworkshop.plus.com> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 13:22:58 +0000, Ahem A Rivet's Shot
>> <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>
>> >On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 10:34:10 -0000 (UTC)
>> >Peter <myshed@prune.org.uk> wrote:
>> >
>> >> "Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)" <briang1@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in
>> >> news:su2f6h$6eu$1@dont-email.me:
>> >>
>> >> > Yes I heard that as well, the guy interviewed actually said it was
>> >> > closer than that, however the big problem nobody seems to have solved
>> >> > yet is the actual heat these generate is greater than any known
>> >> > material can stand.
>> >>
>> >> They solved it by keeping the plasma in a magnetic bottle. That's what
>> >> the torus is for.
>> >
>> > For sustained fusion nothing beats gravitational confinement.
>>
>> That's all very well in theory but to make something like that work
>> you'd need a reactor about 333,000 times more massive than Earth and
>> you'd need to locate it of the order of 1 Astronomical Unit away from
>> any people.
>
> Yep that's about right for a medium output version, there's a demo
>model right ----> here, been ticking along just fine for over a hundred
>petaseconds now. We have some smaller long duration models that should be
>good for several exaseconds which you can get much nearer to.
>
> Just one detail at that short a distance with a medium output unit
>some supplemental magnetic shielding is recommended for radiation sensitive
>lifeforms.

It crosses my mind that, if they do, eventually, get a magnetic
containment model up and working, any little glitch in the containment
part of the system is going to make Three Mile Island, Chernobyl and
Fukushima look benign by comparison. Or will they be able to cycle the
core temperature down in the time it takes for the field to collapse?

Nick

Nick Odell <nick@themusicworkshop.plus.com> writes:

> It crosses my mind that, if they do, eventually, get a magnetic
> containment model up and working, any little glitch in the containment
> part of the system is going to make Three Mile Island, Chernobyl and
> Fukushima look benign by comparison. Or will they be able to cycle the
> core temperature down in the time it takes for the field to collapse?

Didn't Oppenheimer admit that, before the test, he thougt Trinity had a
50:50 chance of igniting the entire atmospere in a global nuclear
fireball (OWTTE)?

"Because we can!"

--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada

On Fri, 11 Feb 2022 22:24:05 +0000
Nick Odell <nick@themusicworkshop.plus.com> wrote:

> It crosses my mind that, if they do, eventually, get a magnetic
> containment model up and working, any little glitch in the containment
> part of the system is going to make Three Mile Island, Chernobyl and
> Fukushima look benign by comparison. Or will they be able to cycle the
> core temperature down in the time it takes for the field to collapse?

The total mass of high temperature plasma is very small (either a
large near vacuum in ITER or a tiny dense pellet of frozen hydrogen in ICF)
so in the event of a containment breach the whole thing will stop fusing and
undergo rapid expansion cooling as it leaks out - it should be pretty much
harmless even standing next to it.

Now if the coolant system breaks down and the reactor isn't stopped
then it could get hairy until enough of it melts to stop it.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/

On Fri, 11 Feb 2022 21:27:25 +0000
nev young <newsforpasiphae1953@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

> I've bought a great big flattery to store my excess PV energy so I can
> use it later.

That'll get you through the night and maybe a few days but not
through winter right ?

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/

Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote in
news:20220212054244.215d90bed49f45b2fc3c6ca4@eircom.net:

> On Fri, 11 Feb 2022 21:27:25 +0000
> nev young <newsforpasiphae1953@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> I've bought a great big flattery to store my excess PV energy so I can
>> use it later.
>
> That'll get you through the night and maybe a few days but not
> through winter right ?
>

My flattery holds 4 kWh. It rarely goes below 50% full in summer, but in
winter it usually goes down to the minimum charge permitted by the
management system (around 15%). A particularly cloudy week or two in
December or January will usually cause it to go into hibernation, and
then I have to scramble into the loft to press the reset button. Only
happens a couple of times a year.

As I type this (11am on an overcast morning) the panels are generating
600W, we're consuming 300W[1] (mainly this computer) and the surplus is
going into the flattery, which is at 17% and rising.

[1] leccy, that is. The gas meter, OTOH, is wizzing round.

--
Peter
-----

On 12 Feb 2022 01:26:19 -0400, Mike Spencer
<mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote:

>
>Nick Odell <nick@themusicworkshop.plus.com> writes:
>
>> It crosses my mind that, if they do, eventually, get a magnetic
>> containment model up and working, any little glitch in the containment
>> part of the system is going to make Three Mile Island, Chernobyl and
>> Fukushima look benign by comparison. Or will they be able to cycle the
>> core temperature down in the time it takes for the field to collapse?
>
>Didn't Oppenheimer admit that, before the test, he thougt Trinity had a
>50:50 chance of igniting the entire atmospere in a global nuclear
>fireball (OWTTE)?
>
> "Because we can!"

I also seem to recall concern at the time they were contemplating
using 2H2O (D2O) in nuclear reactors that if any of it leaked into the
waterways it could start a chain reaction that wouldn't stop until all
our water was heavy.

Nick

On 2022-02-11, Nick Odell <nick@themusicworkshop.plus.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 14:51:23 +0000, Ahem A Rivet's Shot
><steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 14:14:38 +0000
>>Nick Odell <nick@themusicworkshop.plus.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 13:22:58 +0000, Ahem A Rivet's Shot
>>> <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> >On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 10:34:10 -0000 (UTC)
>>> >Peter <myshed@prune.org.uk> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> "Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)" <briang1@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in
>>> >> news:su2f6h$6eu$1@dont-email.me:
>>> >>
>>> >> > Yes I heard that as well, the guy interviewed actually said it was
>>> >> > closer than that, however the big problem nobody seems to have solved
>>> >> > yet is the actual heat these generate is greater than any known
>>> >> > material can stand.
>>> >>
>>> >> They solved it by keeping the plasma in a magnetic bottle. That's what
>>> >> the torus is for.
>>> >
>>> > For sustained fusion nothing beats gravitational confinement.
>>>
>>> That's all very well in theory but to make something like that work
>>> you'd need a reactor about 333,000 times more massive than Earth and
>>> you'd need to locate it of the order of 1 Astronomical Unit away from
>>> any people.
>>
>> Yep that's about right for a medium output version, there's a demo
>>model right ----> here, been ticking along just fine for over a hundred
>>petaseconds now. We have some smaller long duration models that should be
>>good for several exaseconds which you can get much nearer to.
>>
>> Just one detail at that short a distance with a medium output unit
>>some supplemental magnetic shielding is recommended for radiation sensitive
>>lifeforms.
>
>
> It crosses my mind that, if they do, eventually, get a magnetic
> containment model up and working, any little glitch in the containment
> part of the system is going to make Three Mile Island, Chernobyl and
> Fukushima look benign by comparison. Or will they be able to cycle the
> core temperature down in the time it takes for the field to collapse?

Too many unknowns right now. The experimental reactors only hold a small
amount of plasma in a massive structure. The wall of the container easily
absorb all of the energy. But in a production-scale device there would
presumably be much more plasma and more energy to be absorbed. The question
is whether evaporative cooling by the containment vessel will do the wbo.

--
Bernard Peek
bap@shrdlu.com

On Sat, 12 Feb 2022 11:45:45 +0000
Nick Odell <nick@themusicworkshop.plus.com> wrote:

> I also seem to recall concern at the time they were contemplating
> using 2H2O (D2O) in nuclear reactors that if any of it leaked into the
> waterways it could start a chain reaction that wouldn't stop until all
> our water was heavy.

I very much doubt anyone seriously considered that for more than
a few seconds - there's a fair amount of D2O and even T2O in the waterways
anyway and there's no mechanism by which it could force a spare neutron,
that isn't there anyway, into a nearby hydrogen atom through that cloud of
electron.

As for the atmospheric chain reaction, that story is ancient
bunkum, the real story is told here (by Hans Bethe):

<https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/cross-check/bethe-teller-trinity-and-the-end-of-earth/>

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/

On Sat, 12 Feb 2022 11:00:45 -0000 (UTC)
Peter <myshed@prune.org.uk> wrote:

> My flattery holds 4 kWh. It rarely goes below 50% full in summer, but in
> winter it usually goes down to the minimum charge permitted by the
> management system (around 15%). A particularly cloudy week or two in

Yep that figures - it takes a few megawatt hours to hold enough
summer to power winter and that's an insanely big battery - at least until
someone comes up with a long term reliable flow battery.

> As I type this (11am on an overcast morning) the panels are generating
> 600W, we're consuming 300W[1] (mainly this computer) and the surplus is
> going into the flattery, which is at 17% and rising.

Not bad at all - what's the advertised peak ? I'm currently (sorry)
planning my system - it'll be 6KW advertised because that's all I'm allowed.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/

Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote in
news:20220212121755.2b3e091c8af98da2eed25a46@eircom.net:

> On Sat, 12 Feb 2022 11:00:45 -0000 (UTC)
> Peter <myshed@prune.org.uk> wrote:
>
>> My flattery holds 4 kWh. It rarely goes below 50% full in summer, but
>> in winter it usually goes down to the minimum charge permitted by the
>> management system (around 15%). A particularly cloudy week or two in
>
> Yep that figures - it takes a few megawatt hours to hold enough
> summer to power winter and that's an insanely big battery - at least
> until someone comes up with a long term reliable flow battery.
>
>> As I type this (11am on an overcast morning) the panels are
>> generating 600W, we're consuming 300W[1] (mainly this computer) and
>> the surplus is going into the flattery, which is at 17% and rising.
>
> Not bad at all - what's the advertised peak ? I'm currently
> (sorry)
> planning my system - it'll be 6KW advertised because that's all I'm
> allowed.
>

The advertised maximum output of my panels is 4.8kW. In summer it did
produce that amount most afternooons, except when it was cloudy - but
even when cloudy it produced decent amounts during daylight hours. The
flattery allowed us to use that in the evenings instead of selling it
back to the grid at a not-very-favourable rate.

--
Peter
-----

On Sat, 12 Feb 2022 14:52:07 -0000 (UTC)
Peter <myshed@prune.org.uk> wrote:

> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote in
> news:20220212121755.2b3e091c8af98da2eed25a46@eircom.net:
>
> > Not bad at all - what's the advertised peak ? I'm currently
> > (sorry)
> > planning my system - it'll be 6KW advertised because that's all I'm
> > allowed.
> >
>
> The advertised maximum output of my panels is 4.8kW. In summer it did
> produce that amount most afternooons, except when it was cloudy - but

Wow - I'd always expected that advertised peak to require the
Sahara at noon.

> even when cloudy it produced decent amounts during daylight hours. The
> flattery allowed us to use that in the evenings instead of selling it
> back to the grid at a not-very-favourable rate.

I'm feeling more confident in the sanity of my plans. I'll probably
dump the excess in the hot water tank where it might save a few quid in
wood pellets - at least until there's a rolling flattery to use it.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/

On 12/02/2022 12:17, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> On Sat, 12 Feb 2022 11:00:45 -0000 (UTC)
> Peter <myshed@prune.org.uk> wrote:
>
>> My flattery holds 4 kWh. It rarely goes below 50% full in summer, but in
>> winter it usually goes down to the minimum charge permitted by the
>> management system (around 15%). A particularly cloudy week or two in
>
> Yep that figures - it takes a few megawatt hours to hold enough
> summer to power winter and that's an insanely big battery - at least until
> someone comes up with a long term reliable flow battery.
>
The domestic battery bank on my boat holds 4 kilowatt hours, as does
Peter's, and it is one of the smaller banks on these moorings. Add a
kilowatt of solar panels, and even in Winter, they can usually manage to
power lighting and all domestic needs except heating without having to
run the engine or plug in.

Depending on mood my cooking is by gas or microwave, which can be
powered off the battery bank if necessary. Heating may be using
("renewable", if I can get it) shore power or by burning stuff on the
solid fuel stove.

LED lighting is a Good Thing (tm) (c)

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote in
news:20220212154431.8a7c56af194fd7fed04e4f80@eircom.net:

>
> Wow - I'd always expected that advertised peak to require the
> Sahara at noon.
>
>> even when cloudy it produced decent amounts during daylight hours. The
>> flattery allowed us to use that in the evenings instead of selling it
>> back to the grid at a not-very-favourable rate.
>
> I'm feeling more confident in the sanity of my plans. I'll
probably
> dump the excess in the hot water tank where it might save a few quid in
> wood pellets - at least until there's a rolling flattery to use it.

That's what my nephew does: flattery until it's full then water tank. He
hasn't had his system for long but so far it's worked well. If we were
starting afresh that's probably what we'd do.

2021 was our first full year with our system: here's the monthly
generation figures:

Month kWh
2021-01 55.6
2021-02 139.1
2021-03 286.5
2021-04 513.3
2021-05 494.5
2021-06 513.9
2021-07 541.7
2021-08 425.7
2021-09 330.7
2021-10 190.7
2021-11 74.7
2021-12 37.1

--
Peter
-----

On Sat, 12 Feb 2022 17:47:26 -0000 (UTC)
Peter <myshed@prune.org.uk> wrote:

> 2021 was our first full year with our system: here's the monthly
> generation figures:
>
> Month kWh
> 2021-01 55.6
> 2021-02 139.1
> 2021-03 286.5
> 2021-04 513.3
> 2021-05 494.5
> 2021-06 513.9
> 2021-07 541.7
> 2021-08 425.7
> 2021-09 330.7
> 2021-10 190.7
> 2021-11 74.7
> 2021-12 37.1

Wow, the 80% of peak kilowatts equals annual kilowatt hours rule of
thumb hit square on the head. Better and better - I've been derating my
expecations to 70%.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/

On Sat, 12 Feb 2022 16:50:17 +0000
John Williamson <johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> wrote:

> LED lighting is a Good Thing (tm) (c)

It certainly is - many of the LED strips here are eight years old
and still glowing strong (I hate light fittings so I went straight to 12V
strips when we kitted this place out), some have been replaced with newer,
brighter, more efficient strips the rest will be when I get tuits.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/

Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote in
news:20220212180742.bb0a4165d6b5f65ea22cb8e9@eircom.net:

> On Sat, 12 Feb 2022 17:47:26 -0000 (UTC)
> Peter <myshed@prune.org.uk> wrote:
>
>> 2021 was our first full year with our system: here's the monthly
>> generation figures:
>>
>> Month kWh
>> 2021-01 55.6
>> 2021-02 139.1
>> 2021-03 286.5
>> 2021-04 513.3
>> 2021-05 494.5
>> 2021-06 513.9
>> 2021-07 541.7
>> 2021-08 425.7
>> 2021-09 330.7
>> 2021-10 190.7
>> 2021-11 74.7
>> 2021-12 37.1
>
> Wow, the 80% of peak kilowatts equals annual kilowatt hours rule
of
> thumb hit square on the head. Better and better - I've been derating my
> expecations to 70%.
>
One of the nice surprises was the huge amount of data that the inverter
provides over wifi. One option is to download it all as a .csv, which
make it easy to analyse with python.

--
Peter
-----

Nick Odell wrote:

> I also seem to recall concern at the time they were contemplating
> using 2H2O (D2O) in nuclear reactors that if any of it leaked into the
> waterways it could start a chain reaction that wouldn't stop until all
> our water was heavy.

If so, why try to stop the aNizs molishing it in Vemork, if they could've just
tipped a small amount into a big tank of normal water and waited for it to turn
'heavy'?

Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:

> nev young wrote:
>
>> I've bought a great big flattery to store my excess PV energy so I can
>> use it later.
>
> That'll get you through the night and maybe a few days but not
> through winter right ?

I think at our latitude, you have to more or less right-off nov-feb for PV
generation and let what the remaining munfs provide average out over a year.

On 12/02/2022 17:47, Peter wrote:
> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote in
> news:20220212154431.8a7c56af194fd7fed04e4f80@eircom.net:
>
>>
>> Wow - I'd always expected that advertised peak to require the
>> Sahara at noon.
>>
>>> even when cloudy it produced decent amounts during daylight hours. The
>>> flattery allowed us to use that in the evenings instead of selling it
>>> back to the grid at a not-very-favourable rate.
>>
>> I'm feeling more confident in the sanity of my plans. I'll
> probably
>> dump the excess in the hot water tank where it might save a few quid in
>> wood pellets - at least until there's a rolling flattery to use it.
>
> That's what my nephew does: flattery until it's full then water tank. He
> hasn't had his system for long but so far it's worked well. If we were
> starting afresh that's probably what we'd do.
>
> 2021 was our first full year with our system: here's the monthly
> generation figures:
>
> Month kWh
> 2021-01 55.6
> 2021-02 139.1
> 2021-03 286.5
> 2021-04 513.3
> 2021-05 494.5
> 2021-06 513.9
> 2021-07 541.7
> 2021-08 425.7
> 2021-09 330.7
> 2021-10 190.7
> 2021-11 74.7
> 2021-12 37.1
>
How much would it cost me to install such a system?

--
Rusty Hinge
To err is human. To really foul things up requires a computer and the BOFH.

On 12/02/2022 16:50, John Williamson wrote:
> On 12/02/2022 12:17, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>> On Sat, 12 Feb 2022 11:00:45 -0000 (UTC)
>> Peter <myshed@prune.org.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> My flattery holds 4 kWh. It rarely goes below 50% full in summer, but in
>>> winter it usually goes down to the minimum charge permitted by the
>>> management system (around 15%). A particularly cloudy week or two in
>>
>>     Yep that figures - it takes a few megawatt hours to hold enough
>> summer to power winter and that's an insanely big battery - at least
>> until
>> someone comes up with a long term reliable flow battery.
>>
> The domestic battery bank on my boat holds 4 kilowatt hours, as does
> Peter's, and it is one of the smaller banks on these moorings. Add a
> kilowatt of solar panels, and even in Winter, they can usually manage to
> power lighting and all domestic needs except heating without having to
> run the engine or plug in.
>
> Depending on mood my cooking is by gas or microwave, which can be
> powered off the battery bank if necessary. Heating may be using
> ("renewable", if I can get it) shore power or by burning stuff on the
> solid fuel stove.
>
> LED lighting is a Good Thing (tm) (c)

My house is almost entirely LED-lit, the exception being the kitching
which has a single fluorescent tube.

--
Rusty Hinge
To err is human. To really foul things up requires a computer and the BOFH.

RustyHinge <rusty.hinge@foobar.girolle.co.uk> wrote in news:sub3e2$mil$2
@dont-email.me:

> On 12/02/2022 17:47, Peter wrote:
>> 2021 was our first full year with our system: here's the monthly
>> generation figures:
>>
>> Month kWh
>> 2021-01 55.6
>> 2021-02 139.1
>> 2021-03 286.5
>> 2021-04 513.3
>> 2021-05 494.5
>> 2021-06 513.9
>> 2021-07 541.7
>> 2021-08 425.7
>> 2021-09 330.7
>> 2021-10 190.7
>> 2021-11 74.7
>> 2021-12 37.1
>>
> How much would it cost me to install such a system?
>

My system cost just shy of �9k. I got a small local company to fit it -
not the cheapest option but the big energy companies were pratting about
and I got fed up with them.

If you happen to have a south-facing roof your panels would outperform my
west-facing ones by a significant margin.

--
Peter
-----