I wanted to increase my credit card limit. I went into online banking,
followed the instructions, and signed up for credit limit increase
offers by e-mail. That was 6 months ago. I repeated the process a
couple of months ago, again nothing. So yesterday I went online again
to try to sort this, and the chat-bot eventually told me that it could
only be done using the HSBC mobile banking app. But I don't have a
'smartphone', and my PC would not download the 'app', not
surprisingly, as it's not a 'phone.
I eventually talked to somebody, who told me to call the landline
after 9:30 today.
This morning, I did so, spent 35 minutes listening to the inane muzak,
and eventually talked to somebody with a mild Peninsular accent. He
tried to activate the telephone credit card limit increase process, but
apparently it doesn't happen now, all such applications are expected to
be on the mobile app. He connected me to the Credit Card Dept, who
answered in the form of a nice English voiced girl. She listened to my
problem, tried to activate the now-defunct telephone process, and then
said that they now officially did not do this over the 'phone,
everyone is supposed to use the mobile 'app' . But they would do it for
me! She took me through a whole credit application procedure, then
finally said that she would call me with the decision, yeah or nay,
within the next 24 hours.
However much you like computing, it is totally wrong to provide no
app-less method of doing what is a perfectly normal and common banking
procedure.

--
Davey.

On Tue, 15 Nov 2022 06:30:34 +1100, Davey <davey@example.invalid> wrote:

> I wanted to increase my credit card limit. I went into online banking,
> followed the instructions, and signed up for credit limit increase
> offers by e-mail. That was 6 months ago. I repeated the process a
> couple of months ago, again nothing. So yesterday I went online again
> to try to sort this, and the chat-bot eventually told me that it could
> only be done using the HSBC mobile banking app. But I don't have a
> 'smartphone', and my PC would not download the 'app', not
> surprisingly, as it's not a 'phone.
> I eventually talked to somebody, who told me to call the landline
> after 9:30 today.
> This morning, I did so, spent 35 minutes listening to the inane muzak,
> and eventually talked to somebody with a mild Peninsular accent. He
> tried to activate the telephone credit card limit increase process, but
> apparently it doesn't happen now, all such applications are expected to
> be on the mobile app. He connected me to the Credit Card Dept, who
> answered in the form of a nice English voiced girl. She listened to my
> problem, tried to activate the now-defunct telephone process, and then
> said that they now officially did not do this over the 'phone,
> everyone is supposed to use the mobile 'app' . But they would do it for
> me! She took me through a whole credit application procedure, then
> finally said that she would call me with the decision, yeah or nay,
> within the next 24 hours.

> However much you like computing, it is totally wrong to provide no
> app-less method of doing what is a perfectly normal and common banking
> procedure.

But it does make sense for banks and other FIs to cut costs by doing it
like that
and the industry is very competitive.

And it doesnt cost much to have one of the cheaper smartphones.

On 14/11/2022 19:30, Davey wrote:
> I wanted to increase my credit card limit. I went into online banking,

[snip]

> However much you like computing, it is totally wrong to provide no
> app-less method of doing what is a perfectly normal and common banking
> procedure.

You are not compelled to use HSBC. Other banks are available.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On 14/11/2022 19:30, Davey wrote:
> I wanted to increase my credit card limit. I went into online banking,
> followed the instructions, and signed up for credit limit increase
> offers by e-mail. That was 6 months ago. I repeated the process a
> couple of months ago, again nothing. So yesterday I went online again
> to try to sort this, and the chat-bot eventually told me that it could
> only be done using the HSBC mobile banking app. But I don't have a
> 'smartphone', and my PC would not download the 'app', not
> surprisingly, as it's not a 'phone.

There are Android emulators if you insist on going down this path.

<snip>

> However much you like computing, it is totally wrong to provide no
> app-less method of doing what is a perfectly normal and common banking
> procedure.

Nothing wrong with choice. There are other banks.

"Davey" <davey@example.invalid> wrote in message news:tku50q$1qmtl$1@dont-email.me...
>I wanted to increase my credit card limit. I went into online banking,
> followed the instructions, and signed up for credit limit increase
> offers by e-mail. That was 6 months ago.

At a guess, you pay off your credit card balance in full every month ?

To the CC companies you're known as a "deadbeat" and apart from defaulters
you're their worst type of customer as they can't gouge you for interest
every month. Sure they still get merchant fees but they mainly cover costs
on charge free cards; its the interest charges they're interested in.

Many such customers have actually had their credit limits reduced.

bb

On Tue, 15 Nov 2022 07:22:27 +1100
farter <tsruhf@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tue, 15 Nov 2022 06:30:34 +1100, Davey <davey@example.invalid>
> wrote:
>
> > I wanted to increase my credit card limit. I went into online
> > banking, followed the instructions, and signed up for credit limit
> > increase offers by e-mail. That was 6 months ago. I repeated the
> > process a couple of months ago, again nothing. So yesterday I went
> > online again to try to sort this, and the chat-bot eventually told
> > me that it could only be done using the HSBC mobile banking app.
> > But I don't have a 'smartphone', and my PC would not download the
> > 'app', not surprisingly, as it's not a 'phone.
> > I eventually talked to somebody, who told me to call the landline
> > after 9:30 today.
> > This morning, I did so, spent 35 minutes listening to the inane
> > muzak, and eventually talked to somebody with a mild Peninsular
> > accent. He tried to activate the telephone credit card limit
> > increase process, but apparently it doesn't happen now, all such
> > applications are expected to be on the mobile app. He connected me
> > to the Credit Card Dept, who answered in the form of a nice English
> > voiced girl. She listened to my problem, tried to activate the
> > now-defunct telephone process, and then said that they now
> > officially did not do this over the 'phone, everyone is supposed to
> > use the mobile 'app' . But they would do it for me! She took me
> > through a whole credit application procedure, then finally said
> > that she would call me with the decision, yeah or nay, within the
> > next 24 hours.
>
> > However much you like computing, it is totally wrong to provide no
> > app-less method of doing what is a perfectly normal and common
> > banking procedure.
>
> But it does make sense for banks and other FIs to cut costs by doing
> it like that
> and the industry is very competitive.
>
> And it doesnt cost much to have one of the cheaper smartphones.

A. I don't want to carry something around with me that contains lots of
personal data. 'Phones get lost or stolen.
B. I should not be forced to have a 'smartphone' to carry out basic
banking operations which have no direct relationship to mobile
telephony.
It's similar to being forced to have a smart meter, and we have
recently seen how they can be mis-used by the owning supplier.

--
Davey.

On Mon, 14 Nov 2022 20:56:43 +0000
Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:

> On 14/11/2022 19:30, Davey wrote:
> > I wanted to increase my credit card limit. I went into online
> > banking,
>
> [snip]
>
> > However much you like computing, it is totally wrong to provide no
> > app-less method of doing what is a perfectly normal and common
> > banking procedure.
>
> You are not compelled to use HSBC. Other banks are available.
>
>

But I didn't know that there would be this problem when I took out my
first account with them in 1968.
--
Davey.

On 14/11/2022 22:23, billy bookcase wrote:
> "Davey" <davey@example.invalid> wrote in message news:tku50q$1qmtl$1@dont-email.me...
>> I wanted to increase my credit card limit. I went into online banking,
>> followed the instructions, and signed up for credit limit increase
>> offers by e-mail. That was 6 months ago.
>
> At a guess, you pay off your credit card balance in full every month ?
>
> To the CC companies you're known as a "deadbeat" and apart from defaulters
> you're their worst type of customer as they can't gouge you for interest
> every month. Sure they still get merchant fees but they mainly cover costs
> on charge free cards; its the interest charges they're interested in.
>
> Many such customers have actually had their credit limits reduced.

If that was the case the bank would charge accordingly. Someone who pays
their balance every month is a good bet, and payment never needs chasing.

In addition to that, some cards offer a small level of cashback with
purchases, as well as allowing you top pay the balance in whole.

On 14/11/2022 22:40, Davey wrote:
> On Tue, 15 Nov 2022 07:22:27 +1100
> farter <tsruhf@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 15 Nov 2022 06:30:34 +1100, Davey <davey@example.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I wanted to increase my credit card limit. I went into online
>>> banking, followed the instructions, and signed up for credit limit
>>> increase offers by e-mail. That was 6 months ago. I repeated the
>>> process a couple of months ago, again nothing. So yesterday I went
>>> online again to try to sort this, and the chat-bot eventually told
>>> me that it could only be done using the HSBC mobile banking app.
>>> But I don't have a 'smartphone', and my PC would not download the
>>> 'app', not surprisingly, as it's not a 'phone.
>>> I eventually talked to somebody, who told me to call the landline
>>> after 9:30 today.
>>> This morning, I did so, spent 35 minutes listening to the inane
>>> muzak, and eventually talked to somebody with a mild Peninsular
>>> accent. He tried to activate the telephone credit card limit
>>> increase process, but apparently it doesn't happen now, all such
>>> applications are expected to be on the mobile app. He connected me
>>> to the Credit Card Dept, who answered in the form of a nice English
>>> voiced girl. She listened to my problem, tried to activate the
>>> now-defunct telephone process, and then said that they now
>>> officially did not do this over the 'phone, everyone is supposed to
>>> use the mobile 'app' . But they would do it for me! She took me
>>> through a whole credit application procedure, then finally said
>>> that she would call me with the decision, yeah or nay, within the
>>> next 24 hours.
>>
>>> However much you like computing, it is totally wrong to provide no
>>> app-less method of doing what is a perfectly normal and common
>>> banking procedure.
>>
>> But it does make sense for banks and other FIs to cut costs by doing
>> it like that
>> and the industry is very competitive.
>>
>> And it doesnt cost much to have one of the cheaper smartphones.
>
> A. I don't want to carry something around with me that contains lots of
> personal data. 'Phones get lost or stolen.
> B. I should not be forced to have a 'smartphone' to carry out basic
> banking operations which have no direct relationship to mobile
> telephony.

You're not. There are other banks. Mine doesn't stipulate a smart phone,
even though I have one.

> It's similar to being forced to have a smart meter, and we have
> recently seen how they can be mis-used by the owning supplier.

Please do provide examples.

On Tue, 15 Nov 2022 09:40:51 +1100, Davey <davey@example.invalid> wrote:

> On Tue, 15 Nov 2022 07:22:27 +1100
> farter <tsruhf@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 15 Nov 2022 06:30:34 +1100, Davey <davey@example.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > I wanted to increase my credit card limit. I went into online
>> > banking, followed the instructions, and signed up for credit limit
>> > increase offers by e-mail. That was 6 months ago. I repeated the
>> > process a couple of months ago, again nothing. So yesterday I went
>> > online again to try to sort this, and the chat-bot eventually told
>> > me that it could only be done using the HSBC mobile banking app.
>> > But I don't have a 'smartphone', and my PC would not download the
>> > 'app', not surprisingly, as it's not a 'phone.
>> > I eventually talked to somebody, who told me to call the landline
>> > after 9:30 today.
>> > This morning, I did so, spent 35 minutes listening to the inane
>> > muzak, and eventually talked to somebody with a mild Peninsular
>> > accent. He tried to activate the telephone credit card limit
>> > increase process, but apparently it doesn't happen now, all such
>> > applications are expected to be on the mobile app. He connected me
>> > to the Credit Card Dept, who answered in the form of a nice English
>> > voiced girl. She listened to my problem, tried to activate the
>> > now-defunct telephone process, and then said that they now
>> > officially did not do this over the 'phone, everyone is supposed to
>> > use the mobile 'app' . But they would do it for me! She took me
>> > through a whole credit application procedure, then finally said
>> > that she would call me with the decision, yeah or nay, within the
>> > next 24 hours.
>>
>> > However much you like computing, it is totally wrong to provide no
>> > app-less method of doing what is a perfectly normal and common
>> > banking procedure.
>>
>> But it does make sense for banks and other FIs to cut costs by doing
>> it like that
>> and the industry is very competitive.
>>
>> And it doesnt cost much to have one of the cheaper smartphones.

> A. I don't want to carry something around with me that contains lots of
> personal data. 'Phones get lost or stolen.

No one can get any personal data out of a phone that you don't put
personal data on. And the better phones don't allow your personal
data to be stolen from them even if they are lost or stolen.

> B. I should not be forced to have a 'smartphone' to carry out basic
> banking operations which have no direct relationship to mobile
> telephony.

No one is forcing you, you are free to use a bank that
has call centers and pay for the cost of running those.

> It's similar to being forced to have a smart meter, and we have
> recently seen how they can be mis-used by the owning supplier.

That is a lie.

"Fredxx" <fredxx@spam.uk> wrote in message news:tkugon$1rs4n$1@dont-email.me...
> On 14/11/2022 22:23, billy bookcase wrote:
>> "Davey" <davey@example.invalid> wrote in message news:tku50q$1qmtl$1@dont-email.me...
>>> I wanted to increase my credit card limit. I went into online banking,
>>> followed the instructions, and signed up for credit limit increase
>>> offers by e-mail. That was 6 months ago.
>>
>> At a guess, you pay off your credit card balance in full every month ?
>>
>> To the CC companies you're known as a "deadbeat" and apart from defaulters
>> you're their worst type of customer as they can't gouge you for interest
>> every month. Sure they still get merchant fees but they mainly cover costs
>> on charge free cards; its the interest charges they're interested in.
>>
>> Many such customers have actually had their credit limits reduced.
>
> If that was the case the bank would charge accordingly. Someone who pays their balance
> every month is a good bet, and payment never needs chasing.

Why would anyone let alone a bank want to lend money to people entirely
interest free ?

When they could be lending that same money to custiomers who'd
not only generate the same merchant fees, but pay interest as well ?

The fact that they know they're going to get paid is immaterial as the
level of default is already incorporated into the interst rates they charge
>
> In addition to that, some cards offer a small level of cashback with purchases, as well
> as allowing you top pay the balance in whole.
>

"Allowing you to", sure. They're not going to make it too obvious are
they ? In the absence of specific charges, banks make their money by
charging borrowers interest, always have done, always will.

bb

On Tue, 15 Nov 2022 09:42:24 +1100, Davey <davey@example.invalid> wrote:

> On Mon, 14 Nov 2022 20:56:43 +0000
> Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 14/11/2022 19:30, Davey wrote:
>> > I wanted to increase my credit card limit. I went into online
>> > banking,
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>> > However much you like computing, it is totally wrong to provide no
>> > app-less method of doing what is a perfectly normal and common
>> > banking procedure.
>>
>> You are not compelled to use HSBC. Other banks are available.
>>
>>
>
> But I didn't know that there would be this problem when I took out my
> first account with them in 1968.

You are free to change to another bank if you don't like how they operate
now.

On Tue, 15 Nov 2022 10:48:19 +1100, billy bookcase <billy@anon.com> wrote:

>
> "Fredxx" <fredxx@spam.uk> wrote in message
> news:tkugon$1rs4n$1@dont-email.me...
>> On 14/11/2022 22:23, billy bookcase wrote:
>>> "Davey" <davey@example.invalid> wrote in message
>>> news:tku50q$1qmtl$1@dont-email.me...
>>>> I wanted to increase my credit card limit. I went into online banking,
>>>> followed the instructions, and signed up for credit limit increase
>>>> offers by e-mail. That was 6 months ago.
>>>
>>> At a guess, you pay off your credit card balance in full every month ?
>>>
>>> To the CC companies you're known as a "deadbeat" and apart from
>>> defaulters
>>> you're their worst type of customer as they can't gouge you for
>>> interest
>>> every month. Sure they still get merchant fees but they mainly cover
>>> costs
>>> on charge free cards; its the interest charges they're interested in.
>>>
>>> Many such customers have actually had their credit limits reduced.
>>
>> If that was the case the bank would charge accordingly. Someone who
>> pays their balance
>> every month is a good bet, and payment never needs chasing.

> Why would anyone let alone a bank want to lend money to people entirely
> interest free ?

To get the monthly fee and the merchant fees.

> When they could be lending that same money to custiomers who'd
> not only generate the same merchant fees, but pay interest as well ?

They aren't short of money to lend so they can have both, and do.

> The fact that they know they're going to get paid is immaterial as the
> level of default is already incorporated into the interst rates they
> charge

>> In addition to that, some cards offer a small level of cashback with
>> purchases, as well
>> as allowing you top pay the balance in whole.
>>
>
> "Allowing you to", sure. They're not going to make it too obvious are
> they ? In the absence of specific charges, banks make their money by
> charging borrowers interest, always have done, always will.

Banks have previously paid interest on money on deposit and hardly pay
anything anymore.

"farter" <tsruhf@gmail.com> wrote in message news:op.1vngq7zzsj0x4p@pvr2.lan...
> On Tue, 15 Nov 2022 10:48:19 +1100, billy bookcase <billy@anon.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> "Fredxx" <fredxx@spam.uk> wrote in message news:tkugon$1rs4n$1@dont-email.me...
>>> On 14/11/2022 22:23, billy bookcase wrote:
>>>> "Davey" <davey@example.invalid> wrote in message
>>>> news:tku50q$1qmtl$1@dont-email.me...
>>>>> I wanted to increase my credit card limit. I went into online banking,
>>>>> followed the instructions, and signed up for credit limit increase
>>>>> offers by e-mail. That was 6 months ago.
>>>>
>>>> At a guess, you pay off your credit card balance in full every month ?
>>>>
>>>> To the CC companies you're known as a "deadbeat" and apart from defaulters
>>>> you're their worst type of customer as they can't gouge you for interest
>>>> every month. Sure they still get merchant fees but they mainly cover costs
>>>> on charge free cards; its the interest charges they're interested in.
>>>>
>>>> Many such customers have actually had their credit limits reduced.
>>>
>>> If that was the case the bank would charge accordingly. Someone who pays their
>>> balance
>>> every month is a good bet, and payment never needs chasing.
>
>> Why would anyone let alone a bank want to lend money to people entirely
>> interest free ?
>
> To get the monthly fee and the merchant fees.

There is no monthly fee.

These borrowers experiences matched my own. Paid off every month
for over 20 years. Except my own limit was much lower - at my own
request - and I needed to raise it by just �500 for one month to pay
my car insurance. No dice. Numerous telephone calls at the end of
which I even got a letter explaining this wouldn't refelect on
my credit rating. As if I cared. I just used it for the
convenience

quote:

Many customers have reported that Barclaycard is cutting their
limit even though they haven't missed any payments and have
steady finances.

" We spoke to one Barclaycard customer, Jon, a semi-retired
television producer who told us: 'I've had a Barclaycard
40 years and monthly payments have always been cleared out
of my Barclays account during that time. I have never
defaulted in four decades. I have over �300,000 in my Barclays
account. Out of the blue I've been cut to �250 from a �12,500
monthly spend.' He added: "Barclays has told me I cannot raise
a 'complaint

again

They have reduced my limit by 98% from 16k to 250. Perfect credit
history and had the card a decade which has been managed perfectly...
being used and paid every month. Pointless having the card now as
I can spend that in one transaction

unquote

https://www.which.co.uk/news/article/barclaycard-reduces-credit-card-spending-limits-your-rights-if-youve-been-affected-akW9E7e8H81H

They're using Covid as a cover when they know full well that
people who settle each month are a good credit risk and likely
to be retired

Only no one will admit the real reason in print including it would
seem "Which"

bb

On 15/11/2022 01:11, billy bookcase wrote:
> "farter" <tsruhf@gmail.com> wrote in message news:op.1vngq7zzsj0x4p@pvr2.lan...
>> On Tue, 15 Nov 2022 10:48:19 +1100, billy bookcase <billy@anon.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> "Fredxx" <fredxx@spam.uk> wrote in message news:tkugon$1rs4n$1@dont-email.me...
>>>> On 14/11/2022 22:23, billy bookcase wrote:
>>>>> "Davey" <davey@example.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>> news:tku50q$1qmtl$1@dont-email.me...
>>>>>> I wanted to increase my credit card limit. I went into online banking,
>>>>>> followed the instructions, and signed up for credit limit increase
>>>>>> offers by e-mail. That was 6 months ago.
>>>>>
>>>>> At a guess, you pay off your credit card balance in full every month ?
>>>>>
>>>>> To the CC companies you're known as a "deadbeat" and apart from defaulters
>>>>> you're their worst type of customer as they can't gouge you for interest
>>>>> every month. Sure they still get merchant fees but they mainly cover costs
>>>>> on charge free cards; its the interest charges they're interested in.
>>>>>
>>>>> Many such customers have actually had their credit limits reduced.
>>>>
>>>> If that was the case the bank would charge accordingly. Someone who pays their
>>>> balance
>>>> every month is a good bet, and payment never needs chasing.
>>
>>> Why would anyone let alone a bank want to lend money to people entirely
>>> interest free ?
>>
>> To get the monthly fee and the merchant fees.
>
> There is no monthly fee.
>
> These borrowers experiences matched my own. Paid off every month
> for over 20 years. Except my own limit was much lower - at my own
> request - and I needed to raise it by just Ł500 for one month to pay
> my car insurance. No dice. Numerous telephone calls at the end of
> which I even got a letter explaining this wouldn't refelect on
> my credit rating. As if I cared. I just used it for the
> convenience
>
> quote:
>
> Many customers have reported that Barclaycard is cutting their
> limit even though they haven't missed any payments and have
> steady finances.
>
> " We spoke to one Barclaycard customer, Jon, a semi-retired
> television producer who told us: 'I've had a Barclaycard
> 40 years and monthly payments have always been cleared out
> of my Barclays account during that time. I have never
> defaulted in four decades. I have over Ł300,000 in my Barclays
> account. Out of the blue I've been cut to Ł250 from a Ł12,500
> monthly spend.' He added: "Barclays has told me I cannot raise
> a 'complaint
>
> again
>
> They have reduced my limit by 98% from 16k to 250. Perfect credit
> history and had the card a decade which has been managed perfectly...
> being used and paid every month. Pointless having the card now as
> I can spend that in one transaction
>
> unquote
>
> https://www.which.co.uk/news/article/barclaycard-reduces-credit-card-spending-limits-your-rights-if-youve-been-affected-akW9E7e8H81H
>
> They're using Covid as a cover when they know full well that
> people who settle each month are a good credit risk and likely
> to be retired
>
> Only no one will admit the real reason in print including it would
> seem "Which"

The rather obvious explanation is down to recent statutes and rulings
regarding fraudulent transactions.

It's quite obvious you rarely bump along the credit limit, which means
if you disappear to a far off place an incommunicado for a week or 2,
there could well be some nefarious activity on your account for quite a
while. Until recently that would have been tough titties for you. It's
now a bank's problem, and so they are simply reigning in the risk.

On Mon, 14 Nov 2022 23:12:28 +0000
Fredxx <fredxx@spam.uk> wrote:

> On 14/11/2022 22:40, Davey wrote:
> > On Tue, 15 Nov 2022 07:22:27 +1100
> > farter <tsruhf@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On Tue, 15 Nov 2022 06:30:34 +1100, Davey <davey@example.invalid>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> I wanted to increase my credit card limit. I went into online
> >>> banking, followed the instructions, and signed up for credit limit
> >>> increase offers by e-mail. That was 6 months ago. I repeated the
> >>> process a couple of months ago, again nothing. So yesterday I went
> >>> online again to try to sort this, and the chat-bot eventually told
> >>> me that it could only be done using the HSBC mobile banking app.
> >>> But I don't have a 'smartphone', and my PC would not download the
> >>> 'app', not surprisingly, as it's not a 'phone.
> >>> I eventually talked to somebody, who told me to call the landline
> >>> after 9:30 today.
> >>> This morning, I did so, spent 35 minutes listening to the inane
> >>> muzak, and eventually talked to somebody with a mild Peninsular
> >>> accent. He tried to activate the telephone credit card limit
> >>> increase process, but apparently it doesn't happen now, all such
> >>> applications are expected to be on the mobile app. He connected me
> >>> to the Credit Card Dept, who answered in the form of a nice
> >>> English voiced girl. She listened to my problem, tried to
> >>> activate the now-defunct telephone process, and then said that
> >>> they now officially did not do this over the 'phone, everyone is
> >>> supposed to use the mobile 'app' . But they would do it for me!
> >>> She took me through a whole credit application procedure, then
> >>> finally said that she would call me with the decision, yeah or
> >>> nay, within the next 24 hours.
> >>
> >>> However much you like computing, it is totally wrong to provide no
> >>> app-less method of doing what is a perfectly normal and common
> >>> banking procedure.
> >>
> >> But it does make sense for banks and other FIs to cut costs by
> >> doing it like that
> >> and the industry is very competitive.
> >>
> >> And it doesnt cost much to have one of the cheaper smartphones.
> >
> > A. I don't want to carry something around with me that contains
> > lots of personal data. 'Phones get lost or stolen.
> > B. I should not be forced to have a 'smartphone' to carry out basic
> > banking operations which have no direct relationship to mobile
> > telephony.
>
> You're not. There are other banks. Mine doesn't stipulate a smart
> phone, even though I have one.
>
> > It's similar to being forced to have a smart meter, and we have
> > recently seen how they can be mis-used by the owning supplier.
>
> Please do provide examples.
>
>

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/surge-smart-meters-remotely-switched-expensive-pay-as-you-go/

--
Davey.

"Fredxx" <fredxx@spam.uk> wrote in message news:tkups7$1sl0h$1@dont-email.me...
> On 15/11/2022 01:11, billy bookcase wrote:
>> "farter" <tsruhf@gmail.com> wrote in message news:op.1vngq7zzsj0x4p@pvr2.lan...
>>> On Tue, 15 Nov 2022 10:48:19 +1100, billy bookcase <billy@anon.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Fredxx" <fredxx@spam.uk> wrote in message news:tkugon$1rs4n$1@dont-email.me...
>>>>> On 14/11/2022 22:23, billy bookcase wrote:
>>>>>> "Davey" <davey@example.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:tku50q$1qmtl$1@dont-email.me...
>>>>>>> I wanted to increase my credit card limit. I went into online banking,
>>>>>>> followed the instructions, and signed up for credit limit increase
>>>>>>> offers by e-mail. That was 6 months ago.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> At a guess, you pay off your credit card balance in full every month ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To the CC companies you're known as a "deadbeat" and apart from defaulters
>>>>>> you're their worst type of customer as they can't gouge you for interest
>>>>>> every month. Sure they still get merchant fees but they mainly cover costs
>>>>>> on charge free cards; its the interest charges they're interested in.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Many such customers have actually had their credit limits reduced.
>>>>>
>>>>> If that was the case the bank would charge accordingly. Someone who pays their
>>>>> balance
>>>>> every month is a good bet, and payment never needs chasing.
>>>
>>>> Why would anyone let alone a bank want to lend money to people entirely
>>>> interest free ?
>>>
>>> To get the monthly fee and the merchant fees.
>>
>> There is no monthly fee.
>>
>> These borrowers experiences matched my own. Paid off every month
>> for over 20 years. Except my own limit was much lower - at my own
>> request - and I needed to raise it by just L500 for one month to pay
>> my car insurance. No dice. Numerous telephone calls at the end of
>> which I even got a letter explaining this wouldn't refelect on
>> my credit rating. As if I cared. I just used it for the
>> convenience
>>
>> quote:
>>
>> Many customers have reported that Barclaycard is cutting their
>> limit even though they haven't missed any payments and have
>> steady finances.
>>
>> " We spoke to one Barclaycard customer, Jon, a semi-retired
>> television producer who told us: 'I've had a Barclaycard
>> 40 years and monthly payments have always been cleared out
>> of my Barclays account during that time. I have never
>> defaulted in four decades. I have over L300,000 in my Barclays
>> account. Out of the blue I've been cut to L250 from a L12,500
>> monthly spend.' He added: "Barclays has told me I cannot raise
>> a 'complaint
>>
>> again
>>
>> They have reduced my limit by 98% from 16k to 250. Perfect credit
>> history and had the card a decade which has been managed perfectly...
>> being used and paid every month. Pointless having the card now as
>> I can spend that in one transaction
>>
>> unquote
>>
>> https://www.which.co.uk/news/article/barclaycard-reduces-credit-card-spending-limits-your-rights-if-youve-been-affected-akW9E7e8H81H
>>
>> They're using Covid as a cover when they know full well that
>> people who settle each month are a good credit risk and likely
>> to be retired
>>
>> Only no one will admit the real reason in print including it would
>> seem "Which"
>
> The rather obvious explanation is down to recent statutes and rulings regarding
> fraudulent transactions.
>
> It's quite obvious you rarely bump along the credit limit, which means if
> you disappear to a far off place an incommunicado for a week or 2, there
> could well be some nefarious activity on your account for quite a while.
> Until recently that would have been tough titties for you. It's now a
> bank's problem, and so they are simply reigning in the risk.

In the two examples I quoted, who just so happened to settle in full each
month, their credit limits were reduced to �250 a month.

Are you saying everyone's credit limit was similarly reduced to �250 a month ?
As presumably they're all subject to your "obvious explanation" of recent
statutes and rulings regarding fraudulent transactions.

Or if not, why not ?

bb

Davey <davey@example.invalid> wrote:

> It's similar to being forced to have a smart meter, and we have
> recently seen how they can be mis-used by the owning supplier.

Have we? Do tell.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

On Tue, 15 Nov 2022 10:47:56 +1100
farter <tsruhf@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tue, 15 Nov 2022 09:40:51 +1100, Davey <davey@example.invalid>
> wrote:
>
> > On Tue, 15 Nov 2022 07:22:27 +1100
> > farter <tsruhf@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On Tue, 15 Nov 2022 06:30:34 +1100, Davey <davey@example.invalid>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> > I wanted to increase my credit card limit. I went into online
> >> > banking, followed the instructions, and signed up for credit
> >> > limit increase offers by e-mail. That was 6 months ago. I
> >> > repeated the process a couple of months ago, again nothing. So
> >> > yesterday I went online again to try to sort this, and the
> >> > chat-bot eventually told me that it could only be done using the
> >> > HSBC mobile banking app. But I don't have a 'smartphone', and my
> >> > PC would not download the 'app', not surprisingly, as it's not a
> >> > 'phone. I eventually talked to somebody, who told me to call the
> >> > landline after 9:30 today.
> >> > This morning, I did so, spent 35 minutes listening to the inane
> >> > muzak, and eventually talked to somebody with a mild Peninsular
> >> > accent. He tried to activate the telephone credit card limit
> >> > increase process, but apparently it doesn't happen now, all such
> >> > applications are expected to be on the mobile app. He connected
> >> > me to the Credit Card Dept, who answered in the form of a nice
> >> > English voiced girl. She listened to my problem, tried to
> >> > activate the now-defunct telephone process, and then said that
> >> > they now officially did not do this over the 'phone, everyone is
> >> > supposed to use the mobile 'app' . But they would do it for me!
> >> > She took me through a whole credit application procedure, then
> >> > finally said that she would call me with the decision, yeah or
> >> > nay, within the next 24 hours.
> >>
> >> > However much you like computing, it is totally wrong to provide
> >> > no app-less method of doing what is a perfectly normal and common
> >> > banking procedure.
> >>
> >> But it does make sense for banks and other FIs to cut costs by
> >> doing it like that
> >> and the industry is very competitive.
> >>
> >> And it doesnt cost much to have one of the cheaper smartphones.
>
> > A. I don't want to carry something around with me that contains
> > lots of personal data. 'Phones get lost or stolen.
>
> No one can get any personal data out of a phone that you don't put
> personal data on. And the better phones don't allow your personal
> data to be stolen from them even if they are lost or stolen.
>
> > B. I should not be forced to have a 'smartphone' to carry out basic
> > banking operations which have no direct relationship to mobile
> > telephony.
>
> No one is forcing you, you are free to use a bank that
> has call centers and pay for the cost of running those.
>
> > It's similar to being forced to have a smart meter, and we have
> > recently seen how they can be mis-used by the owning supplier.
>
> That is a lie.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-63554879

--
Davey.

On 15/11/2022 01:39, Davey wrote:

>
> https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/surge-smart-meters-remotely-switched-expensive-pay-as-you-go

In the olden days those same people would have been put on a pay as you
go meter but would have taken a lot longer when the debt was greater.
They tend to be much more expensive because it's both the cost of the
electricity and paying off the unpaid debt for electricity used in the past.

You should go and find the Youtube video where a guy rants on about the
evils of smart meters. He has all the documentation and links for every
point he makes.
"Electricity cost twice as much after you have a smart meter fitted"
referring to a woman when suddenly found that on the smart meter
installation her previous meter was read for the first time in years to
find she owed thousands.
"Smart meters emit pulses causing cancer"
"They catch fire and blow up"
etc.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On Tue, 15 Nov 2022 08:20:50 +0000
alan_m <junk@admac.myzen.co.uk> wrote:

> On 15/11/2022 01:39, Davey wrote:
>
> >
> > https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/surge-smart-meters-remotely-switched-expensive-pay-as-you-go
>
> In the olden days those same people would have been put on a pay as
> you go meter but would have taken a lot longer when the debt was
> greater. They tend to be much more expensive because it's both the
> cost of the electricity and paying off the unpaid debt for
> electricity used in the past.
>
> You should go and find the Youtube video where a guy rants on about
> the evils of smart meters. He has all the documentation and links for
> every point he makes.
> "Electricity cost twice as much after you have a smart meter fitted"
> referring to a woman when suddenly found that on the smart meter
> installation her previous meter was read for the first time in years
> to find she owed thousands.
> "Smart meters emit pulses causing cancer"
> "They catch fire and blow up"
> etc.
>
>

True as that might be, and I am not denying it, it still does not excuse
the companies from not following the rules about switching the meters
remotely, after due consultation, etc etc. And how clearly is that
possibility explained in the T&Cs? I bet it's not brought up in any
conversation about the meters when they are being discussed
before installation. "Oh, by the way, we can switch your meter to a
Pay-As-You-Go meter if we feel you deserve it".
--
Davey.

On Tue, 15 Nov 2022 12:39:49 +1100, Davey <davey@example.invalid> wrote:

> On Mon, 14 Nov 2022 23:12:28 +0000
> Fredxx <fredxx@spam.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 14/11/2022 22:40, Davey wrote:
>> > On Tue, 15 Nov 2022 07:22:27 +1100
>> > farter <tsruhf@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Tue, 15 Nov 2022 06:30:34 +1100, Davey <davey@example.invalid>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> I wanted to increase my credit card limit. I went into online
>> >>> banking, followed the instructions, and signed up for credit limit
>> >>> increase offers by e-mail. That was 6 months ago. I repeated the
>> >>> process a couple of months ago, again nothing. So yesterday I went
>> >>> online again to try to sort this, and the chat-bot eventually told
>> >>> me that it could only be done using the HSBC mobile banking app.
>> >>> But I don't have a 'smartphone', and my PC would not download the
>> >>> 'app', not surprisingly, as it's not a 'phone.
>> >>> I eventually talked to somebody, who told me to call the landline
>> >>> after 9:30 today.
>> >>> This morning, I did so, spent 35 minutes listening to the inane
>> >>> muzak, and eventually talked to somebody with a mild Peninsular
>> >>> accent. He tried to activate the telephone credit card limit
>> >>> increase process, but apparently it doesn't happen now, all such
>> >>> applications are expected to be on the mobile app. He connected me
>> >>> to the Credit Card Dept, who answered in the form of a nice
>> >>> English voiced girl. She listened to my problem, tried to
>> >>> activate the now-defunct telephone process, and then said that
>> >>> they now officially did not do this over the 'phone, everyone is
>> >>> supposed to use the mobile 'app' . But they would do it for me!
>> >>> She took me through a whole credit application procedure, then
>> >>> finally said that she would call me with the decision, yeah or
>> >>> nay, within the next 24 hours.
>> >>
>> >>> However much you like computing, it is totally wrong to provide no
>> >>> app-less method of doing what is a perfectly normal and common
>> >>> banking procedure.
>> >>
>> >> But it does make sense for banks and other FIs to cut costs by
>> >> doing it like that
>> >> and the industry is very competitive.
>> >>
>> >> And it doesnt cost much to have one of the cheaper smartphones.
>> >
>> > A. I don't want to carry something around with me that contains
>> > lots of personal data. 'Phones get lost or stolen.
>> > B. I should not be forced to have a 'smartphone' to carry out basic
>> > banking operations which have no direct relationship to mobile
>> > telephony.
>>
>> You're not. There are other banks. Mine doesn't stipulate a smart
>> phone, even though I have one.
>>
>> > It's similar to being forced to have a smart meter, and we have
>> > recently seen how they can be mis-used by the owning supplier.
>>
>> Please do provide examples.
>>
>>
>
> https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/surge-smart-meters-remotely-switched-expensive-pay-as-you-go/

That's not misuse, that is doing what makes sense if the customer
refused to pay what they owe.

On 14/11/2022 23:48, billy bookcase wrote:

> Why would anyone let alone a bank want to lend money to people entirely
> interest free ?

In the case of CC they get the merchant fee. If they can get the
merchant to switch from taking cash to accepting cards they get fees for
using a card vs no fees for when the customer uses cash.

A couple of percent on all of the retailers' turnover is a good
incentive for a CC company to accept anyone who is willing to use their
cards.

More possibly to do with covid and the lockdown a few of the small
businesses close to me have gone from cash only (no £50 notes accepted*)
to also taking cards and judging from what I've seen a lot of customer
do use cards for every purchase. During the two years of Covid
restrictions I only used around £100 in cash - the rest was by CC card.

>
> When they could be lending that same money to custiomers who'd
> not only generate the same merchant fees, but pay interest as well ?

Cash flow. The CC company still have to pay the retailer in full,
possibly within 60 days or less. How do they do that if all their
customers take years to pay off what they have spent? They rely on
customers who pay of 100% of their CC spend each month.

>
> The fact that they know they're going to get paid is immaterial as the
> level of default is already incorporated into the interst rates they charge

But if the default rate is high the interest rate only covers the
amounts they have to write off - but not the money they have to pay back
to the retailer in a timely manner.

* A couple of years back I saw some convincing plastic £10 note
forgeries and recently a couple of shops close to me have recently put
up notices saying no £20 and £50 notes.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

Davey wrote:

> https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/surge-smart-meters-remotely-switched-expensive-pay-as-you-go/

Try telling Tesco you can't afford any groceries and see if they let you keep
taking some home anyway ...

On 15/11/2022 01:48, billy bookcase wrote:

>
> Are you saying everyone's credit limit was similarly reduced to Ł250 a month ?
> As presumably they're all subject to your "obvious explanation" of recent
> statutes and rulings regarding fraudulent transactions.
>
> Or if not, why not ?

Banks and CC companies will not discuss fraud measures except in general
terms. Perhaps in these cases there is continued fraud attempts on these
cards that has been detected and stopped without the customer being
aware. Without knowing all the facts I'm not sure we on these newsgroup
can draw any valid conclusions.

--
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