In article <tkuf58$1roao$1@dont-email.me>,
billy bookcase <billy@anon.com> wrote:

> "Davey" <davey@example.invalid> wrote in message news:tku50q$1qmtl$1@dont-email.me...
> >I wanted to increase my credit card limit. I went into online banking,
> > followed the instructions, and signed up for credit limit increase
> > offers by e-mail. That was 6 months ago.

> At a guess, you pay off your credit card balance in full every month ?

> To the CC companies you're known as a "deadbeat" and apart from defaulters
> you're their worst type of customer as they can't gouge you for interest
> every month. Sure they still get merchant fees but they mainly cover costs
> on charge free cards; its the interest charges they're interested in.

> Many such customers have actually had their credit limits reduced.

> bb

When I got my new John Lewis one, the Credit limit was increased - perhaps
to tempt me to buy something I'd need to pay back by installments?

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4té
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

I heartily agree. Milk and more got into very hot water when they tried to
get all the elderly folk to administer their deliveries only on line, In the
end pressure from disability organisations on the reasonable adjustments
clause in the equality law, made them reinstate a telephone service.
Whether banks would play ball is another matter. I had a refusal to give me
Credit at an Apple store because I had no passport or driving licence.
Barclays in this case turned out to be the issue, so I borrowed the money
from a friend and paid him instead. Its all bonkers if you ask me, they
claimed it was money laundering legislation, well, really?
Brian

--

--:
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Davey" <davey@example.invalid> wrote in message
news:tku50q$1qmtl$1@dont-email.me...
>I wanted to increase my credit card limit. I went into online banking,
> followed the instructions, and signed up for credit limit increase
> offers by e-mail. That was 6 months ago. I repeated the process a
> couple of months ago, again nothing. So yesterday I went online again
> to try to sort this, and the chat-bot eventually told me that it could
> only be done using the HSBC mobile banking app. But I don't have a
> 'smartphone', and my PC would not download the 'app', not
> surprisingly, as it's not a 'phone.
> I eventually talked to somebody, who told me to call the landline
> after 9:30 today.
> This morning, I did so, spent 35 minutes listening to the inane muzak,
> and eventually talked to somebody with a mild Peninsular accent. He
> tried to activate the telephone credit card limit increase process, but
> apparently it doesn't happen now, all such applications are expected to
> be on the mobile app. He connected me to the Credit Card Dept, who
> answered in the form of a nice English voiced girl. She listened to my
> problem, tried to activate the now-defunct telephone process, and then
> said that they now officially did not do this over the 'phone,
> everyone is supposed to use the mobile 'app' . But they would do it for
> me! She took me through a whole credit application procedure, then
> finally said that she would call me with the decision, yeah or nay,
> within the next 24 hours.
> However much you like computing, it is totally wrong to provide no
> app-less method of doing what is a perfectly normal and common banking
> procedure.
>
> --
> Davey.
>

On Tue, 15 Nov 2022 19:37:57 +1100
farter <tsruhf@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tue, 15 Nov 2022 12:39:49 +1100, Davey <davey@example.invalid>
> wrote:
>
> > On Mon, 14 Nov 2022 23:12:28 +0000
> > Fredxx <fredxx@spam.uk> wrote:
> >
> >> On 14/11/2022 22:40, Davey wrote:
> >> > On Tue, 15 Nov 2022 07:22:27 +1100
> >> > farter <tsruhf@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> On Tue, 15 Nov 2022 06:30:34 +1100, Davey
> >> >> <davey@example.invalid> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>> I wanted to increase my credit card limit. I went into online
> >> >>> banking, followed the instructions, and signed up for credit
> >> >>> limit increase offers by e-mail. That was 6 months ago. I
> >> >>> repeated the process a couple of months ago, again nothing. So
> >> >>> yesterday I went online again to try to sort this, and the
> >> >>> chat-bot eventually told me that it could only be done using
> >> >>> the HSBC mobile banking app. But I don't have a 'smartphone',
> >> >>> and my PC would not download the 'app', not surprisingly, as
> >> >>> it's not a 'phone. I eventually talked to somebody, who told
> >> >>> me to call the landline after 9:30 today.
> >> >>> This morning, I did so, spent 35 minutes listening to the inane
> >> >>> muzak, and eventually talked to somebody with a mild Peninsular
> >> >>> accent. He tried to activate the telephone credit card limit
> >> >>> increase process, but apparently it doesn't happen now, all
> >> >>> such applications are expected to be on the mobile app. He
> >> >>> connected me to the Credit Card Dept, who answered in the form
> >> >>> of a nice English voiced girl. She listened to my problem,
> >> >>> tried to activate the now-defunct telephone process, and then
> >> >>> said that they now officially did not do this over the 'phone,
> >> >>> everyone is supposed to use the mobile 'app' . But they would
> >> >>> do it for me! She took me through a whole credit application
> >> >>> procedure, then finally said that she would call me with the
> >> >>> decision, yeah or nay, within the next 24 hours.
> >> >>
> >> >>> However much you like computing, it is totally wrong to
> >> >>> provide no app-less method of doing what is a perfectly normal
> >> >>> and common banking procedure.
> >> >>
> >> >> But it does make sense for banks and other FIs to cut costs by
> >> >> doing it like that
> >> >> and the industry is very competitive.
> >> >>
> >> >> And it doesnt cost much to have one of the cheaper
> >> >> smartphones.
> >> >
> >> > A. I don't want to carry something around with me that contains
> >> > lots of personal data. 'Phones get lost or stolen.
> >> > B. I should not be forced to have a 'smartphone' to carry out
> >> > basic banking operations which have no direct relationship to
> >> > mobile telephony.
> >>
> >> You're not. There are other banks. Mine doesn't stipulate a smart
> >> phone, even though I have one.
> >>
> >> > It's similar to being forced to have a smart meter, and we have
> >> > recently seen how they can be mis-used by the owning supplier.
> >>
> >> Please do provide examples.
> >>
> >>
> >
> > https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/surge-smart-meters-remotely-switched-expensive-pay-as-you-go/
>
> That's not misuse, that is doing what makes sense if the customer
> refused to pay what they owe.

The issue was the failure of the companies to engage with the customers
according to the rules which they had agreed to.
--
Davey.

farter <tsruhf@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Why would anyone let alone a bank want to lend money to people entirely
> > interest free ?
>
> To get the monthly fee and the merchant fees.
>
What monthly fee?

I don't think I've paid a credit card monthly charge for a very, very
long time, if I ever did. I know in the early days of credit cards
some did charge a fee though. I believe charge cards (e.g. American
Express) do have a monthly fee,

In Europe bank charges and such tend to be much more 'up front' in
that you get charged a monthly fee for your bank account and a fee for
your credit/debit card. There's no 'free' banking as in the UK, but
their charges for extras and such are much lower (I have a BRED
account in France).

--
Chris Green
·

On Tue, 15 Nov 2022 08:20:50 +0000, alan_m wrote:
> On 15/11/2022 01:39, Davey wrote:
>
>
>> https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/surge-smart-meters-
remotely-switched-expensive-pay-as-you-go
>
> In the olden days those same people would have been put on a pay as you
> go meter but would have taken a lot longer when the debt was greater.
> They tend to be much more expensive because it's both the cost of the
> electricity and paying off the unpaid debt for electricity used in the
> past.

Pre-payment is also on a (slightly) more expensive tariff than credit
meters paid on receipt of bill, which is itself (slightly) more than
paying by direct debit. So even disregarding the payment of outstanding
debts it's more expensive to be on pre-payment. Understandable really as
there's more overhead in processing the payments, but it does mean those
least able to afford it get higher prices.

Mike

On Tue, 15 Nov 2022 09:26:44 +0000, Chris Green wrote:

> In Europe bank charges and such tend to be much more 'up front' in that
> you get charged a monthly fee for your bank account and a fee for your
> credit/debit card. There's no 'free' banking as in the UK, but their
> charges for extras and such are much lower (I have a BRED account in
> France).

My (UK) bank has an accounty for which you pay £2 a month. It gets you
some special offers, etc. If you have two regular monthly direct debits,
they give you £4 every month. If you use their app once a month, you get
an extra £1. Seems bonkers, but...

That account used to give you a percentage of all 'utility' direct
debits. Our consumption of gas/electricity is quite high. We pay a lot to
the ISP for a couple of reasons. I was making £350 a year from the bank.
No wonder they 'simplified' it.

--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

In article <tkviig$2168d$2@dont-email.me>,
Davey <davey@example.invalid> wrote:
> On Tue, 15 Nov 2022 08:20:50 +0000
> alan_m <junk@admac.myzen.co.uk> wrote:

> > On 15/11/2022 01:39, Davey wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/surge-smart-meters-remotely-switched-expensive-pay-as-you-go
> >
> > In the olden days those same people would have been put on a pay as
> > you go meter but would have taken a lot longer when the debt was
> > greater. They tend to be much more expensive because it's both the
> > cost of the electricity and paying off the unpaid debt for
> > electricity used in the past.
> >
> > You should go and find the Youtube video where a guy rants on about
> > the evils of smart meters. He has all the documentation and links for
> > every point he makes.
> > "Electricity cost twice as much after you have a smart meter fitted"
> > referring to a woman when suddenly found that on the smart meter
> > installation her previous meter was read for the first time in years
> > to find she owed thousands.
> > "Smart meters emit pulses causing cancer"
> > "They catch fire and blow up"
> > etc.
> >
> >

> True as that might be, and I am not denying it, it still does not excuse
> the companies from not following the rules about switching the meters
> remotely, after due consultation, etc etc. And how clearly is that
> possibility explained in the T&Cs? I bet it's not brought up in any
> conversation about the meters when they are being discussed
> before installation. "Oh, by the way, we can switch your meter to a
> Pay-As-You-Go meter if we feel you deserve it".

mine doesn't have a coin slot

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4té
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 14/11/2022 19:30, Davey wrote:
> I wanted to increase my credit card limit. I went into online banking,
> followed the instructions, and signed up for credit limit increase
> offers by e-mail. That was 6 months ago. I repeated the process a
> couple of months ago, again nothing. So yesterday I went online again
> to try to sort this, and the chat-bot eventually told me that it could
> only be done using the HSBC mobile banking app. But I don't have a
> 'smartphone', and my PC would not download the 'app', not
> surprisingly, as it's not a 'phone.
> I eventually talked to somebody, who told me to call the landline
> after 9:30 today.
> This morning, I did so, spent 35 minutes listening to the inane muzak,
> and eventually talked to somebody with a mild Peninsular accent. He
> tried to activate the telephone credit card limit increase process, but
> apparently it doesn't happen now, all such applications are expected to
> be on the mobile app. He connected me to the Credit Card Dept, who
> answered in the form of a nice English voiced girl. She listened to my
> problem, tried to activate the now-defunct telephone process, and then
> said that they now officially did not do this over the 'phone,
> everyone is supposed to use the mobile 'app' . But they would do it for
> me! She took me through a whole credit application procedure, then
> finally said that she would call me with the decision, yeah or nay,
> within the next 24 hours.
> However much you like computing, it is totally wrong to provide no
> app-less method of doing what is a perfectly normal and common banking
> procedure.
>
Girl at HSBC broke rules to get an issue sorted out for a friend.
They are hopeless

--
You can get much farther with a kind word and a gun than you can with a
kind word alone.

Al Capone

On 14/11/2022 22:42, Davey wrote:
> On Mon, 14 Nov 2022 20:56:43 +0000
> Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 14/11/2022 19:30, Davey wrote:
>>> I wanted to increase my credit card limit. I went into online
>>> banking,
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>>> However much you like computing, it is totally wrong to provide no
>>> app-less method of doing what is a perfectly normal and common
>>> banking procedure.
>>
>> You are not compelled to use HSBC. Other banks are available.
>>
>>
>
> But I didn't know that there would be this problem when I took out my
> first account with them in 1968.

Well neither did I know that Lloyds would be incompetent criminals when
I opened mine in 1968

Nor yet Barclays in 1995

Nor yet HSBC in 2017

--
"Women actually are capable of being far more than the feminists will
let them."

On 14/11/2022 23:48, billy bookcase wrote:
> "Fredxx" <fredxx@spam.uk> wrote in message news:tkugon$1rs4n$1@dont-email.me...
>> On 14/11/2022 22:23, billy bookcase wrote:
>>> "Davey" <davey@example.invalid> wrote in message news:tku50q$1qmtl$1@dont-email.me...
>>>> I wanted to increase my credit card limit. I went into online banking,
>>>> followed the instructions, and signed up for credit limit increase
>>>> offers by e-mail. That was 6 months ago.
>>>
>>> At a guess, you pay off your credit card balance in full every month ?
>>>
>>> To the CC companies you're known as a "deadbeat" and apart from defaulters
>>> you're their worst type of customer as they can't gouge you for interest
>>> every month. Sure they still get merchant fees but they mainly cover costs
>>> on charge free cards; its the interest charges they're interested in.
>>>
>>> Many such customers have actually had their credit limits reduced.
>>
>> If that was the case the bank would charge accordingly. Someone who pays their balance
>> every month is a good bet, and payment never needs chasing.
>
> Why would anyone let alone a bank want to lend money to people entirely
> interest free ?
>
It isnt. Credit cards charge the vendor a percent or two

> When they could be lending that same money to custiomers who'd
> not only generate the same merchant fees, but pay interest as well ?
>
Because they want to stay in business?

> The fact that they know they're going to get paid is immaterial as the
> level of default is already incorporated into the interst rates they charge
>>
>> In addition to that, some cards offer a small level of cashback with purchases, as well
>> as allowing you top pay the balance in whole.
>>
>
> "Allowing you to", sure. They're not going to make it too obvious are
> they ? In the absence of specific charges, banks make their money by
> charging borrowers interest, always have done, always will.
>
>
> bb
>
>

--
"Women actually are capable of being far more than the feminists will
let them."

On 15/11/2022 09:32, Davey wrote:

>>> https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/surge-smart-meters-remotely-switched-expensive-pay-as-you-go/
>>
>> That's not misuse, that is doing what makes sense if the customer
>> refused to pay what they owe.
>
> The issue was the failure of the companies to engage with the customers
> according to the rules which they had agreed to.

But not all customers. The various articles that I seen are suggesting
all people transferred to pre-payment haven't been consulted beforehand
whereas it's only a small minority of cases where no consultation has
taken place. People objecting to being put on pre-payment because of
debts is not the same as being switched over without any warning.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

In article <kj2c4j-94sg2.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>, Chris Green <cl@isbd.net>
wrote:
> farter <tsruhf@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Why would anyone let alone a bank want to lend money to people
> > > entirely interest free ?
> >
> > To get the monthly fee and the merchant fees.
> >
> What monthly fee?

> I don't think I've paid a credit card monthly charge for a very, very
> long time, if I ever did. I know in the early days of credit cards some
> did charge a fee though. I believe charge cards (e.g. American Express)
> do have a monthly fee,

> In Europe bank charges and such tend to be much more 'up front' in that
> you get charged a monthly fee for your bank account and a fee for your
> credit/debit card. There's no 'free' banking as in the UK, but their
> charges for extras and such are much lower (I have a BRED account in
> France).

I am treasurer for a small charity. We pay a monthly fee to ouur bank. This
was only introduced in the last few years.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4té
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 15/11/2022 10:11, Bob Eager wrote:
> On Tue, 15 Nov 2022 09:26:44 +0000, Chris Green wrote:
>
>> In Europe bank charges and such tend to be much more 'up front' in that
>> you get charged a monthly fee for your bank account and a fee for your
>> credit/debit card. There's no 'free' banking as in the UK, but their
>> charges for extras and such are much lower (I have a BRED account in
>> France).
>
> My (UK) bank has an accounty for which you pay £2 a month. It gets you
> some special offers, etc. If you have two regular monthly direct debits,
> they give you £4 every month. If you use their app once a month, you get
> an extra £1. Seems bonkers, but...

My UK current account is free and I also get money back for paying by DD
and using my debit card. Although it used to be up to £5 a month it's
now down to £1/month for DD and accessing your web interface once a
month and 5p (max £1/month) for every bank card transaction. I tend
not to use my bank card too often because my CC pays 0.5% cashback which
on my average transaction gives me more than 5p.

>
> That account used to give you a percentage of all 'utility' direct
> debits. Our consumption of gas/electricity is quite high. We pay a lot to
> the ISP for a couple of reasons. I was making £350 a year from the bank.
> No wonder they 'simplified' it.

With my bank I could pay an optional fee to "enhance" the features on my
current account such as x% off certain services but after a short
consideration/research I found most of these discounts are somewhat
false and shopping around I could get the same or cheaper deals without
having to pay the bank a optional fee.

Having sucked in people to accounts with fees offering other deals many
of the banks have since reduced the actual value of these extra deals.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 15/11/2022 10:15, charles wrote:

> I am treasurer for a small charity. We pay a monthly fee to ouur bank. This
> was only introduced in the last few years.
>

But that is possibly classed as a business account rather than a
personal account.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 15/11/2022 09:34, Mike Humphrey wrote:
> On Tue, 15 Nov 2022 08:20:50 +0000, alan_m wrote:
>> On 15/11/2022 01:39, Davey wrote:
>>
>>
>>> https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/surge-smart-meters-
> remotely-switched-expensive-pay-as-you-go
>>
>> In the olden days those same people would have been put on a pay as you
>> go meter but would have taken a lot longer when the debt was greater.
>> They tend to be much more expensive because it's both the cost of the
>> electricity and paying off the unpaid debt for electricity used in the
>> past.
>
> Pre-payment is also on a (slightly) more expensive tariff than credit
> meters paid on receipt of bill,

I thought that was now outlawed, and the same standard tariff applies to
both credit and pre-payment meters.

> which is itself (slightly) more than
> paying by direct debit.

Agreed.

> So even disregarding the payment of outstanding
> debts it's more expensive to be on pre-payment. Understandable really as
> there's more overhead in processing the payments, but it does mean those
> least able to afford it get higher prices.

Generally, the options are reduced for those who can't handle and budget
money. If you have a good credit rating you can generally move to a
credit tariff. There is a choice, you have significant control over your
own credit rating.

On 15/11/2022 01:39, Davey wrote:
> On Mon, 14 Nov 2022 23:12:28 +0000
> Fredxx <fredxx@spam.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 14/11/2022 22:40, Davey wrote:
>>> On Tue, 15 Nov 2022 07:22:27 +1100
>>> farter <tsruhf@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Tue, 15 Nov 2022 06:30:34 +1100, Davey <davey@example.invalid>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I wanted to increase my credit card limit. I went into online
>>>>> banking, followed the instructions, and signed up for credit limit
>>>>> increase offers by e-mail. That was 6 months ago. I repeated the
>>>>> process a couple of months ago, again nothing. So yesterday I went
>>>>> online again to try to sort this, and the chat-bot eventually told
>>>>> me that it could only be done using the HSBC mobile banking app.
>>>>> But I don't have a 'smartphone', and my PC would not download the
>>>>> 'app', not surprisingly, as it's not a 'phone.
>>>>> I eventually talked to somebody, who told me to call the landline
>>>>> after 9:30 today.
>>>>> This morning, I did so, spent 35 minutes listening to the inane
>>>>> muzak, and eventually talked to somebody with a mild Peninsular
>>>>> accent. He tried to activate the telephone credit card limit
>>>>> increase process, but apparently it doesn't happen now, all such
>>>>> applications are expected to be on the mobile app. He connected me
>>>>> to the Credit Card Dept, who answered in the form of a nice
>>>>> English voiced girl. She listened to my problem, tried to
>>>>> activate the now-defunct telephone process, and then said that
>>>>> they now officially did not do this over the 'phone, everyone is
>>>>> supposed to use the mobile 'app' . But they would do it for me!
>>>>> She took me through a whole credit application procedure, then
>>>>> finally said that she would call me with the decision, yeah or
>>>>> nay, within the next 24 hours.
>>>>
>>>>> However much you like computing, it is totally wrong to provide no
>>>>> app-less method of doing what is a perfectly normal and common
>>>>> banking procedure.
>>>>
>>>> But it does make sense for banks and other FIs to cut costs by
>>>> doing it like that
>>>> and the industry is very competitive.
>>>>
>>>> And it doesnt cost much to have one of the cheaper smartphones.
>>>
>>> A. I don't want to carry something around with me that contains
>>> lots of personal data. 'Phones get lost or stolen.
>>> B. I should not be forced to have a 'smartphone' to carry out basic
>>> banking operations which have no direct relationship to mobile
>>> telephony.
>>
>> You're not. There are other banks. Mine doesn't stipulate a smart
>> phone, even though I have one.
>>
>>> It's similar to being forced to have a smart meter, and we have
>>> recently seen how they can be mis-used by the owning supplier.
>>
>> Please do provide examples.
>>
>>
>
> https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/surge-smart-meters-remotely-switched-expensive-pay-as-you-go/

Isn't that going to be cheaper for the customer than the cost of a
warrant and further court costs? At least the supply doesn't get cut off.

I would hardly calling it mis-use unless you think some people should
get their energy for free?

charles <charles@candehope.me.uk> wrote:
> In article <kj2c4j-94sg2.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>, Chris Green <cl@isbd.net>
> wrote:
> > farter <tsruhf@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Why would anyone let alone a bank want to lend money to people
> > > > entirely interest free ?
> > >
> > > To get the monthly fee and the merchant fees.
> > >
> > What monthly fee?
>
> > I don't think I've paid a credit card monthly charge for a very, very
> > long time, if I ever did. I know in the early days of credit cards some
> > did charge a fee though. I believe charge cards (e.g. American Express)
> > do have a monthly fee,
>
> > In Europe bank charges and such tend to be much more 'up front' in that
> > you get charged a monthly fee for your bank account and a fee for your
> > credit/debit card. There's no 'free' banking as in the UK, but their
> > charges for extras and such are much lower (I have a BRED account in
> > France).
>
> I am treasurer for a small charity. We pay a monthly fee to ouur bank. This
> was only introduced in the last few years.
>
Yes, it always has been difficult to find free business accounts
(which is what charities have to have). We (church) get our account
free at LLoyds.

--
Chris Green
·

"charles" <charles@candehope.me.uk> wrote in message
news:5a47a91588charles@candehope.me.uk...
> In article <tkviig$2168d$2@dont-email.me>,
> Davey <davey@example.invalid> wrote:
>> On Tue, 15 Nov 2022 08:20:50 +0000
>> alan_m <junk@admac.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> > On 15/11/2022 01:39, Davey wrote:
>> >
>> > >
>> > > https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/surge-smart-meters-remotely-switched-expensive-pay-as-you-go
>> >
>> > In the olden days those same people would have been put on a pay as
>> > you go meter but would have taken a lot longer when the debt was
>> > greater. They tend to be much more expensive because it's both the
>> > cost of the electricity and paying off the unpaid debt for
>> > electricity used in the past.
>> >
>> > You should go and find the Youtube video where a guy rants on about
>> > the evils of smart meters. He has all the documentation and links for
>> > every point he makes.
>> > "Electricity cost twice as much after you have a smart meter fitted"
>> > referring to a woman when suddenly found that on the smart meter
>> > installation her previous meter was read for the first time in years
>> > to find she owed thousands.
>> > "Smart meters emit pulses causing cancer"
>> > "They catch fire and blow up"
>> > etc.
>> >
>> >
>
>> True as that might be, and I am not denying it, it still does not excuse
>> the companies from not following the rules about switching the meters
>> remotely, after due consultation, etc etc. And how clearly is that
>> possibility explained in the T&Cs? I bet it's not brought up in any
>> conversation about the meters when they are being discussed
>> before installation. "Oh, by the way, we can switch your meter to a
>> Pay-As-You-Go meter if we feel you deserve it".
>
> mine doesn't have a coin slot

You top up a card in a shop I believe same as with Oyster Cards on buses.

bb

"alan_m" <junk@admac.myzen.co.uk> wrote in message
news:jth2o9F3jbjU3@mid.individual.net...
> On 15/11/2022 01:48, billy bookcase wrote:
>
>>
>> Are you saying everyone's credit limit was similarly reduced to L250 a month ?
>> As presumably they're all subject to your "obvious explanation" of recent
>> statutes and rulings regarding fraudulent transactions.
>>
>> Or if not, why not ?
>
> Banks and CC companies will not discuss fraud measures except in general terms. Perhaps
> in these cases there is continued fraud attempts on these cards that has been detected
> and stopped without the customer being aware. Without knowing all the facts I'm not
> sure we on these newsgroup can draw any valid conclusions.

I earlier lowered the limit on that card limit to �2000 myself , as I use it online so
as to guard against losses from possible fraud. As I no longer needed a high limit
for air travel or car hire etc In one month I ended up short of the amount necessary
to pay my car insurance. They refused to raise the limit by �500 for just one month.

Those are the facts *I* know.

bb

"charles" <charles@candehope.me.uk> wrote in message
news:5a47a91588charles@candehope.me.uk...
>
> mine doesn't have a coin slot

You top up a card in a shop like with Oyster Cards I believe

bb
>
> --
> from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4t�
> "I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On Mon, 14 Nov 2022 22:40:51 +0000
Davey <davey@example.invalid> wrote:

>
> A. I don't want to carry something around with me that contains lots
> of personal data. 'Phones get lost or stolen.

Indeed, and the small print almost certainly says that all the data on
the phone actually belong to Google or Apple. I have a smartphone, but
the only personal data on it are a few phone numbers, not more than a
dozen. It's PAYG, so I don't do Internet over the phone, only wifi. I
don't do anything involving money on it.

> B. I should not be forced to have a 'smartphone' to carry out basic
> banking operations which have no direct relationship to mobile
> telephony.

Certainly not. At least one bank will remain sane enough to see that
cutting employees and other overheads can increase profits, but only if
it actually has any customers left.

--
Joe

On 15/11/2022 01:48, billy bookcase wrote:
> "Fredxx" <fredxx@spam.uk> wrote in message news:tkups7$1sl0h$1@dont-email.me...
>> On 15/11/2022 01:11, billy bookcase wrote:
>>> "farter" <tsruhf@gmail.com> wrote in message news:op.1vngq7zzsj0x4p@pvr2.lan...
>>>> On Tue, 15 Nov 2022 10:48:19 +1100, billy bookcase <billy@anon.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Fredxx" <fredxx@spam.uk> wrote in message news:tkugon$1rs4n$1@dont-email.me...
>>>>>> On 14/11/2022 22:23, billy bookcase wrote:
>>>>>>> "Davey" <davey@example.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:tku50q$1qmtl$1@dont-email.me...
>>>>>>>> I wanted to increase my credit card limit. I went into online banking,
>>>>>>>> followed the instructions, and signed up for credit limit increase
>>>>>>>> offers by e-mail. That was 6 months ago.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> At a guess, you pay off your credit card balance in full every month ?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To the CC companies you're known as a "deadbeat" and apart from defaulters
>>>>>>> you're their worst type of customer as they can't gouge you for interest
>>>>>>> every month. Sure they still get merchant fees but they mainly cover costs
>>>>>>> on charge free cards; its the interest charges they're interested in.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Many such customers have actually had their credit limits reduced.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If that was the case the bank would charge accordingly. Someone who pays their
>>>>>> balance
>>>>>> every month is a good bet, and payment never needs chasing.
>>>>
>>>>> Why would anyone let alone a bank want to lend money to people entirely
>>>>> interest free ?
>>>>
>>>> To get the monthly fee and the merchant fees.
>>>
>>> There is no monthly fee.
>>>
>>> These borrowers experiences matched my own. Paid off every month
>>> for over 20 years. Except my own limit was much lower - at my own
>>> request - and I needed to raise it by just L500 for one month to pay
>>> my car insurance. No dice. Numerous telephone calls at the end of
>>> which I even got a letter explaining this wouldn't refelect on
>>> my credit rating. As if I cared. I just used it for the
>>> convenience
>>>
>>> quote:
>>>
>>> Many customers have reported that Barclaycard is cutting their
>>> limit even though they haven't missed any payments and have
>>> steady finances.
>>>
>>> " We spoke to one Barclaycard customer, Jon, a semi-retired
>>> television producer who told us: 'I've had a Barclaycard
>>> 40 years and monthly payments have always been cleared out
>>> of my Barclays account during that time. I have never
>>> defaulted in four decades. I have over L300,000 in my Barclays
>>> account. Out of the blue I've been cut to L250 from a L12,500
>>> monthly spend.' He added: "Barclays has told me I cannot raise
>>> a 'complaint
>>>
>>> again
>>>
>>> They have reduced my limit by 98% from 16k to 250. Perfect credit
>>> history and had the card a decade which has been managed perfectly...
>>> being used and paid every month. Pointless having the card now as
>>> I can spend that in one transaction
>>>
>>> unquote
>>>
>>> https://www.which.co.uk/news/article/barclaycard-reduces-credit-card-spending-limits-your-rights-if-youve-been-affected-akW9E7e8H81H
>>>
>>> They're using Covid as a cover when they know full well that
>>> people who settle each month are a good credit risk and likely
>>> to be retired
>>>
>>> Only no one will admit the real reason in print including it would
>>> seem "Which"
>>
>> The rather obvious explanation is down to recent statutes and rulings regarding
>> fraudulent transactions.
>>
>> It's quite obvious you rarely bump along the credit limit, which means if
>> you disappear to a far off place an incommunicado for a week or 2, there
>> could well be some nefarious activity on your account for quite a while.
>> Until recently that would have been tough titties for you. It's now a
>> bank's problem, and so they are simply reigning in the risk.
>
> In the two examples I quoted, who just so happened to settle in full each
> month, their credit limits were reduced to Ł250 a month.
>
> Are you saying everyone's credit limit was similarly reduced to Ł250 a month ?

Probably for those who rarely use their card.

> As presumably they're all subject to your "obvious explanation" of recent
> statutes and rulings regarding fraudulent transactions.
>
> Or if not, why not ?

My point is that banks now carry the can when it comes to fraud, you
don't. That focusses their attention, and in my opinion rightly so, as
before they just sat back most unhelpfully and laughed at you.

If I want to spend more than my limit, I use my debit card.

On 15/11/2022 11:45, billy bookcase wrote:
> "charles" <charles@candehope.me.uk> wrote in message
> news:5a47a91588charles@candehope.me.uk...
>> In article <tkviig$2168d$2@dont-email.me>,
>> Davey <davey@example.invalid> wrote:
>>> On Tue, 15 Nov 2022 08:20:50 +0000
>>> alan_m <junk@admac.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 15/11/2022 01:39, Davey wrote:

>>>>> https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/surge-smart-meters-remotely-switched-expensive-pay-as-you-go
>>>>
>>>> In the olden days those same people would have been put on a pay as
>>>> you go meter but would have taken a lot longer when the debt was
>>>> greater. They tend to be much more expensive because it's both the
>>>> cost of the electricity and paying off the unpaid debt for
>>>> electricity used in the past.
>>>>
>>>> You should go and find the Youtube video where a guy rants on about
>>>> the evils of smart meters. He has all the documentation and links for
>>>> every point he makes.
>>>> "Electricity cost twice as much after you have a smart meter fitted"
>>>> referring to a woman when suddenly found that on the smart meter
>>>> installation her previous meter was read for the first time in years
>>>> to find she owed thousands.
>>>> "Smart meters emit pulses causing cancer"
>>>> "They catch fire and blow up"
>>>> etc.

>>> True as that might be, and I am not denying it, it still does not excuse
>>> the companies from not following the rules about switching the meters
>>> remotely, after due consultation, etc etc. And how clearly is that
>>> possibility explained in the T&Cs? I bet it's not brought up in any
>>> conversation about the meters when they are being discussed
>>> before installation. "Oh, by the way, we can switch your meter to a
>>> Pay-As-You-Go meter if we feel you deserve it".
>>
>> mine doesn't have a coin slot
>
> You top up a card in a shop I believe same as with Oyster Cards on buses.

Do all smart meters have a slot for a pre-payment card just in case they
need to be switched?

Even if so, the user would presumably have to be sent the card and told
how to use it.

I expect they just send a text message to a phone the user used to have
or an email to a defunct address.

--
Max Demian

In article <jtha4bF54ktU1@mid.individual.net>, alan_m
<junk@admac.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
> On 15/11/2022 10:15, charles wrote:

> > I am treasurer for a small charity. We pay a monthly fee to ouur bank.
> > This was only introduced in the last few years.
> >

> But that is possibly classed as a business account rather than a
> personal account.

It's a charity account.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4té
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 15/11/2022 11:32, Fredxx wrote:
> On 15/11/2022 01:39, Davey wrote:
>> On Mon, 14 Nov 2022 23:12:28 +0000
>> Fredxx <fredxx@spam.uk> wrote:

>>> You're not. There are other banks. Mine doesn't stipulate a smart
>>> phone, even though I have one.
>>>
>>>> It's similar to being forced to have a smart meter, and we have
>>>> recently seen how they can be mis-used by the owning supplier.
>>>
>>> Please do provide examples.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/surge-smart-meters-remotely-switched-expensive-pay-as-you-go/
>
> Isn't that going to be cheaper for the customer than the cost of a
> warrant and further court costs? At least the supply doesn't get cut off.
>
> I would hardly calling it mis-use unless you think some people should
> get their energy for free?

It is misuse if the person isn't properly told it's happening and how to
credit the meter.

--
Max Demian