On 08/12/2022 11:07, Harry Bloomfield Esq wrote:
> On 29/04/2022 10:31, alan_m wrote:
>> I did a one off test by boiling 3 pints of water in each
>> Microwave = 5p
>
>> Electric kettle = 5.4p
>
> I would suggest those figures have to be wrong. A microwave oven is much
> less than 100% efficient, in turning electrical energy into heat.

Yes I corrected my post in April saying my microwave readings were in
serious error but the electric kettle vs gas hob readings were valid.

Gas hob and electric kettle were similar figures BUT an electric kettle
turns itself off whereas manual intervention has to be applied to a
kettle on a gas hob. Just boiling just a cup of water on a gas hob and
if you are 15 seconds tardy in turning off the gas the electric kettle
wins out every time.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 08/12/2022 11:29, alan_m wrote:
> Yes I corrected my post in April saying my microwave readings were in
> serious error but the electric kettle vs gas hob readings were valid.

I would not attempt to dispute your gas readings, though I wonder how
you are managing to measure such small amounts of gas consumption?

My indoor display is accurate on longer term consumption, but hopelessly
inaccurate for short term measures. Basically, nothing at all registers,
unless a burner is left burning for a considerable period.

The best consumption figures I can use for such small consumers, is the
gas hob manufacturer's figures for Kwh, plus timing to the boil.

On 30/04/2022 18:54, Jock wrote:
> It's more complicated than that with a single cup of hot water.
>
> There is no wasted hot water when done in the microwave,
> there will always be some unused hot water with most kettles
> because most need more than just the cup of water in the kettle.

Most jug kettle are able to boil just 0.5L of water, which is 2x cups. A
microwave can boil one cup, but they are maybe 50% efficient.
Energy/cost wise not much different, so really down to convenience for
small water volumes, plus wear and tear. I would suggest much more wear
and tear cost to a microwave.

On 01/12/2022 13:15, KIDS PLAY wrote:
> Hello everyone, I'm the founder of the blogwww.radiopicker.com/best-camping-radio-make-the-perfect-choice/ where I share expert articles on topics useful to tech enthusiasts.

You also post completely unrelated spam, in threads of newsgroups.

On 08/12/2022 12:17, Harry Bloomfield Esq wrote:
> On 30/04/2022 18:54, Jock wrote:
>> It's more complicated than that with a single cup of hot water.
>>
>> There is no wasted hot water when done in the microwave,
>> there will always be some unused hot water with most kettles
>> because most need more than just the cup of water in the kettle.
>
> Most jug kettle are able to boil just 0.5L of water, which is 2x cups. A
> microwave can boil one cup, but they are maybe 50% efficient.
> Energy/cost wise not much different, so really down to convenience for
> small water volumes, plus wear and tear. I would suggest much more wear
> and tear cost to a microwave.

This household used mugs for tea/coffee and the jug kettle can heat just
one mug full however filling to the correct level from the tap is not
that accurate. Possibly a bigger problem for a gas hob kettle being
filled directly from the tap and which has no transparent filling scale
on the side.

My current microwave is also a grill/oven and so switching on the
microwave also switches on a light and fan.
--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

Harry Bloomfield Esq <a@harrym1byt.plus.com> wrote:
> On 30/04/2022 18:54, Jock wrote:
> > It's more complicated than that with a single cup of hot water.
> >
> > There is no wasted hot water when done in the microwave,
> > there will always be some unused hot water with most kettles
> > because most need more than just the cup of water in the kettle.
>
> Most jug kettle are able to boil just 0.5L of water, which is 2x cups. A
> microwave can boil one cup, but they are maybe 50% efficient.
> Energy/cost wise not much different, so really down to convenience for
> small water volumes, plus wear and tear. I would suggest much more wear
> and tear cost to a microwave.

In the grand scheme of household electricity costs I don't believe
that making cups of tea by whatewver means is very significant. Even
boiling a full kettle only takes three minutes or so if I remember
right. That's 2.5kW * 3/60 hrs, i.e. about .125kWh, 5p or so.

It's fridges and such that are on all the time and bulk water heating
that make the costs mount up.

--
Chris Green
·

On 08/12/2022 13:48, Chris Green wrote:

> In the grand scheme of household electricity costs I don't believe
> that making cups of tea by whatewver means is very significant. Even
> boiling a full kettle only takes three minutes or so if I remember
> right. That's 2.5kW * 3/60 hrs, i.e. about .125kWh, 5p or so.
>
> It's fridges and such that are on all the time and bulk water heating
> that make the costs mount up.
>

three cups of tea a day
0.125 x 3 x 365 = 136kWh/year

Typical manufacturers figures

Under counter fridge = 120kWh/year
Under counter freezer = 190kWh/year

American style fridge/frezer = 400kwh/year
--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 08/12/2022 12:42, alan_m wrote:
> On 08/12/2022 12:17, Harry Bloomfield Esq wrote:
>> On 30/04/2022 18:54, Jock wrote:
>>> It's more complicated than that with a single cup of hot water.
>>>
>>> There is no wasted hot water when done in the microwave,
>>> there will always be some unused hot water with most kettles
>>> because most need more than just the cup of water in the kettle.

Not those with the element below a flat base.
> This household used mugs for tea/coffee and the jug kettle can heat just
> one mug full however filling to the correct level from the tap is not
> that accurate. Possibly a bigger problem for a gas hob kettle being
> filled directly from the tap and which has no transparent filling scale
> on the side.

My kettle has a transparent scale, but it doesn't go down to two
mugsful, and even if it did the bottom of the handle would be in the
way. Anyway, the simplest - and most accurate - method of getting one or
more mugsful is simply to fill the mug with cold water and pour that
into the empty kettle.

--

Jeff

On 08/12/2022 11:48, Harry Bloomfield Esq wrote:
> On 08/12/2022 11:29, alan_m wrote:
>> Yes I corrected my post in April saying my microwave readings were in
>> serious error but the electric kettle vs gas hob readings were valid.
>
> I would not attempt to dispute your gas readings, though I wonder how
> you are managing to measure such small amounts of gas consumption?

My smart gas meter displays cubic metres to 3 decimal places. Boil 3
pints of water (rather than i cup full) and reading the delta change on
the gas meter. Then, convert to kWh using the formula on the gas bill.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 08/12/2022 11:48, Harry Bloomfield Esq wrote:

> My indoor display is accurate on longer term consumption, but hopelessly
> inaccurate for short term measures. Basically, nothing at all registers,
> unless a burner is left burning for a considerable period.

While the remote display for smart meters may be updated quite fast for
electric the consumption the gas may only be updated every 30 minutes.
Probably to save the gas meter internal battery which should last a
nominal 10 years. The electric meter has it's own source of power from
the national grid so is not power restricted in the same way :)

The actual meter has a mechanical button where you can get the meter
display to provide the up-to-date information in cubic metres to 3
decimal places.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 8 Dec 2022 at 14:28:08 GMT, alan_m wrote:

> On 08/12/2022 13:48, Chris Green wrote:
>
>> In the grand scheme of household electricity costs I don't believe
>> that making cups of tea by whatewver means is very significant. Even
>> boiling a full kettle only takes three minutes or so if I remember
>> right. That's 2.5kW * 3/60 hrs, i.e. about .125kWh, 5p or so.
>>
>> It's fridges and such that are on all the time and bulk water heating
>> that make the costs mount up.
>>
>
> three cups of tea a day
> 0.125 x 3 x 365 = 136kWh/year
>

I'd have at least 10 hot drinks a day if I stay at home, 4 if I don't. I don't
think I'm *that* weird . . .

I use one of these kettles:

https://www.bosch-home.co.uk/product-list/exclusive/TWK7203GB

Heating to 90C cuts done the energy use a lot (although I only use it with
instant coffee and some teas), and the insulation does actually work/make a
difference. Eye wateringly expensive to buy in the first place though.

--
Cheers, Rob, Sheffield UK

On 09/12/2022 08:39, RJH wrote:
> On 8 Dec 2022 at 14:28:08 GMT, alan_m wrote:
>
>> On 08/12/2022 13:48, Chris Green wrote:
>>
>>> In the grand scheme of household electricity costs I don't believe
>>> that making cups of tea by whatewver means is very significant. Even
>>> boiling a full kettle only takes three minutes or so if I remember
>>> right. That's 2.5kW * 3/60 hrs, i.e. about .125kWh, 5p or so.
>>>
>>> It's fridges and such that are on all the time and bulk water heating
>>> that make the costs mount up.
>>>
>>
>> three cups of tea a day
>> 0.125 x 3 x 365 = 136kWh/year
>>
>
> I'd have at least 10 hot drinks a day if I stay at home, 4 if I don't. I don't
> think I'm *that* weird . . .
>
> I use one of these kettles:
>
> https://www.bosch-home.co.uk/product-list/exclusive/TWK7203GB
>
> Heating to 90C cuts done the energy use a lot (although I only use it with
> instant coffee and some teas), and the insulation does actually work/make a
> difference. Eye wateringly expensive to buy in the first place though.

"Lid opens at the touch of a button" is an immediate no-no for me. Every
kettle I've had with a spring-operated lid has failed after a few years,
whether cheap or expensive. Either pressing the button will not open the
lid, or the lid will not stay closed.

--

Jeff

On Fri, 9 Dec 2022 08:39:23 -0000 (UTC), RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com>
wrote:

>
>I'd have at least 10 hot drinks a day if I stay at home, 4 if I don't. I don't
>think I'm *that* weird . . .
>
>I use one of these kettles:
>
>https://www.bosch-home.co.uk/product-list/exclusive/TWK7203GB
>
>Heating to 90C cuts done the energy use a lot (although I only use it with
>instant coffee and some teas), and the insulation does actually work/make a
>difference. Eye wateringly expensive to buy in the first place though.
>

Wow. I think I get a lot of extra cups of tea and coffee with my �13
ASDA kettle:
https://direct.asda.com/george/home/kettles-toasters/white-kettle-17l/050133405,default,pd.html?cgid=D26M10G10C06

Otherwise I'm about as weird as you :)

--
AnthonyL

Why ever wait to finish a job before starting the next?

In message <tmsgh9$rcr3$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:07:21 on Thu, 8 Dec
2022, Harry Bloomfield Esq <a@harrym1byt.plus.com> remarked:
>On 29/04/2022 10:31, alan_m wrote:
>> I did a one off test by boiling 3 pints of water in each
>> Microwave = 5p
>
>> Electric kettle = 5.4p
>
>I would suggest those figures have to be wrong. A microwave oven is
>much less than 100% efficient, in turning electrical energy into heat.

What is the remainder of it turned into - light, sound, or something
else?

>A kettle, by it's very design, turns all of the energy into heating the
>water, except for any losses via the container.
>
>I use the microwave for heating some food, which suites microwave
>heating - not all do. I also use it for heating a cup of milk for a
>drink, simply because it is the least messy solution.
>
>Kettle is reserved for boiling water needs.

--
Roland Perry

On 09/12/2022 15:18, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <tmsgh9$rcr3$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:07:21 on Thu, 8 Dec
> 2022, Harry Bloomfield Esq <a@harrym1byt.plus.com> remarked:
>> On 29/04/2022 10:31, alan_m wrote:
>>> I did a one off test by boiling 3 pints of water in each
>>> Microwave = 5p
>>
>>> Electric kettle = 5.4p
>>
>> I would suggest those figures have to be wrong. A microwave oven is
>> much less than 100% efficient, in turning electrical energy into heat.
>
> What is the remainder of it turned into - light, sound, or something else?

Well heat in the electronics - the magnetron mainly.
A bit goes as stray RF

>
>> A kettle, by it's very design, turns all of the energy into heating
>> the water, except for any losses via the container.
>>
>> I use the microwave for heating some food, which suites microwave
>> heating - not all do. I also use it for heating a cup of milk for a
>> drink, simply because it is the least messy solution.
>>
>> Kettle is reserved for boiling water needs.
>

--
"Strange as it seems, no amount of learning can cure stupidity, and
higher education positively fortifies it."

- Stephen Vizinczey

On Thu, 08 Dec 2022 23:42:53 +1100, alan_m <junk@admac.myzen.co.uk> wrote:

> On 08/12/2022 12:17, Harry Bloomfield Esq wrote:
>> On 30/04/2022 18:54, Jock wrote:
>>> It's more complicated than that with a single cup of hot water.
>>>
>>> There is no wasted hot water when done in the microwave,
>>> there will always be some unused hot water with most kettles
>>> because most need more than just the cup of water in the kettle.
>> Most jug kettle are able to boil just 0.5L of water, which is 2x cups.
>> A microwave can boil one cup, but they are maybe 50% efficient.
>> Energy/cost wise not much different, so really down to convenience for
>> small water volumes, plus wear and tear. I would suggest much more wear
>> and tear cost to a microwave.
>
>
> This household used mugs for tea/coffee and the jug kettle can heat just
> one mug full however filling to the correct level from the tap is not
> that accurate.

The obvious thing to do if you care is to fill the mug with
cold water and tip it into the jug and heat the water there.

> Possibly a bigger problem for a gas hob kettle being filled directly
> from the tap and which has no transparent filling scale on the side.

> My current microwave is also a grill/oven and so switching on the
> microwave also switches on a light and fan.

On Thursday, 8 December 2022 at 11:29:09 UTC, alan_m wrote:
> On 08/12/2022 11:07, Harry Bloomfield Esq wrote:
> > On 29/04/2022 10:31, alan_m wrote:
> >> I did a one off test by boiling 3 pints of water in each
> >> Microwave = 5p
> >
> >> Electric kettle = 5.4p
> >
> > I would suggest those figures have to be wrong. A microwave oven is much
> > less than 100% efficient, in turning electrical energy into heat.
> Yes I corrected my post in April saying my microwave readings were in
> serious error but the electric kettle vs gas hob readings were valid.
>
> Gas hob and electric kettle were similar figures BUT an electric kettle
> turns itself off whereas manual intervention has to be applied to a
> kettle on a gas hob. Just boiling just a cup of water on a gas hob and
> if you are 15 seconds tardy in turning off the gas the electric kettle
> wins out every time.

Oh if you leave it boil it'll overflow & put the gas out :)

On Thursday, 8 December 2022 at 12:17:31 UTC, Harry Bloomfield Esq wrote:
> On 30/04/2022 18:54, Jock wrote:
> > It's more complicated than that with a single cup of hot water.
> >
> > There is no wasted hot water when done in the microwave,
> > there will always be some unused hot water with most kettles
> > because most need more than just the cup of water in the kettle.
>
> Most jug kettle are able to boil just 0.5L of water, which is 2x cups. A
> microwave can boil one cup, but they are maybe 50% efficient.
> Energy/cost wise not much different, so really down to convenience for
> small water volumes, plus wear and tear. I would suggest much more wear
> and tear cost to a microwave.

IME jug kettles have no trouble boiling one mug exactly, about 0.25l.

On Sat, 10 Dec 2022 02:18:47 +1100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
wrote:

> In message <tmsgh9$rcr3$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:07:21 on Thu, 8 Dec
> 2022, Harry Bloomfield Esq <a@harrym1byt.plus.com> remarked:
>> On 29/04/2022 10:31, alan_m wrote:
>>> I did a one off test by boiling 3 pints of water in each
>>> Microwave = 5p
>>
>>> Electric kettle = 5.4p
>>
>> I would suggest those figures have to be wrong. A microwave oven is
>> much less than 100% efficient, in turning electrical energy into heat.
>
> What is the remainder of it turned into - light, sound, or something
> else?

Heat. not in the mug of water being heated.

>> A kettle, by it's very design, turns all of the energy into heating the
>> water, except for any losses via the container.
>>
>> I use the microwave for heating some food, which suites microwave
>> heating - not all do. I also use it for heating a cup of milk for a
>> drink, simply because it is the least messy solution.
>>
>> Kettle is reserved for boiling water needs.

Rod Speed wrote:

delete

On 08/12/2022 11:22, Harry Bloomfield Esq wrote:
> On 01/12/2022 15:35, KIDS PLAY wrote:
>> Hello everyone, I am the founder of the gardening
>> bloghttps:// <redacted>, sharing expert articles on topics
>> useful to garden and flower lovers
>
> That's nice dear..

It's best to just ignore these clickbait things.

Andt

вторник, 10 мая 2022 г. в 17:42:25 UTC+2, Martin Brown:
> On 10/05/2022 13:47, Andrew wrote:
> > On 09/05/2022 21:26, Martin Brown wrote:
> >> On 07/05/2022 08:28, alan_m wrote:
> >>> On 06/05/2022 21:25, Vir Campestris wrote:
> >>>> On 30/04/2022 16:14, Scott wrote:
> >>>>> I tried to advance this argument but she said batteries are not very
> >>>>> expensive and last a long time. She also suggests that a battery
> >>>>> powered FM radio will be a lot more efficient than any DAB radio.
> >>
> >> Using rechargeables might be a little bit greener.
> >>
> >> Explain the price paid for energy content to her.
> >> AA cell is ~3Ah at 1.5v = 5Wh
> >> AA Cells needs 200 of them 1kWh = £35
> >>
> >> Mains electricity is presently 20p / 1kWh
> >>
> >
> > Only for bulb customers who are being subsidised by
> > the taxpayer
> And people still on fixed price contracts at other companies that
> haven't quite gone bust yet. I guess 30p/kWh might be about current
> market rate. The CEO of my supplier was pleading hardship yesterday.
>
> Even at the new rip off prices batteries are two orders of magnitude
> more expensive! Mains power is always better if you can have it.
>
> --
> Regards,
> Martin Brown
Hey everyone, I'm the backbone of the Racing Blog, where I share expert articles on useful topics. https://gokartriders.com/

четверг, 8 декабря 2022 г. в 12:13:33 UTC+1, Harry Bloomfield Esq:
> On 29/04/2022 11:06, RJH wrote:
> > I tend to use the electric shower over the bath for a quick wash. I've a combi
> > boiler and small amounts of hot water - even with the preheat - is the single
> > worst part of it. Baths and showers are great though.
>
> Me too. I tend to only use the bathroom washbasin for hand-washing. When
> I need to wash my face, I lean over the edge of the bath and run the
> electric shower.
Hey everyone, I'm the backbone of the Racing Blog, where I share expert articles on useful topics.
https://gokartriders.com/what-does-the-blue-and-yellow-flag-mean-in-racing-sign-language-of-the-racing-world/