For the last two afternoons I have been able to sit in our garden
enjoying the birds (feathered) feeding from our feeders, the buds
growing on the trees, the daffodumdillies dafodumdillying and the clear
blue skies.

Yet in Ukraine families are being bombed out of their homes and
targetted when trying to escape by a mad dictator and his disillusioned
troups.

I really can't reconcile those two aspects.

I live in a country where Patel is actively trying to restrict Ukraine
refugees from getting here, ignoring the fact that her parents were
refugees who did get here.

And I can do nowt about it. I can't offer my flat to a refugee family.
There are rules.

I live in a country that pays less to state pensioners than any other
country in Europe, but where the triple lock on state pensions has been
pulled making our pensions worth even less. That means I'm going to have
to stop drinking again just to survive. (shit!)

I live in a country where our PM is so embarrassing that the EU would
not let him join a summit meeting. I understand that. I don't want him
here either, or his cabinet cronies.

So what the fuck?

Just enjoy my bit of life knowing that I have contributed to the
Salvation Army's refugee appeal with as much as I can spare?

Promble is I cazzun! I'm beginning to think I don't want to be here any
more, and if I developed a sickness that was terminal, I would be glad.
My time would be done. Don't revive!

(If this is too political for you, Snipe, then tuff! Bury your head in
the sand and pretend none of it is happening to you or anyone else.

But it is.)

Tone

Tone <tone@email.com> wrote in news:t1nibh$88u$1@dont-email.me:

> For the last two afternoons I have been able to sit in our garden
> enjoying the birds (feathered) feeding from our feeders, the buds
> growing on the trees, the daffodumdillies dafodumdillying and the clear
> blue skies.
>
> Yet in Ukraine families are being bombed out of their homes and
> targetted when trying to escape by a mad dictator and his disillusioned
> troups.
>
> I really can't reconcile those two aspects.
>
> I live in a country where Patel is actively trying to restrict Ukraine
> refugees from getting here, ignoring the fact that her parents were
> refugees who did get here.
>
> And I can do nowt about it. I can't offer my flat to a refugee family.
> There are rules.
>
> I live in a country that pays less to state pensioners than any other
> country in Europe, but where the triple lock on state pensions has been
> pulled making our pensions worth even less. That means I'm going to have
> to stop drinking again just to survive. (shit!)
>
> I live in a country where our PM is so embarrassing that the EU would
> not let him join a summit meeting. I understand that. I don't want him
> here either, or his cabinet cronies.
>
> So what the fuck?
>
> Just enjoy my bit of life knowing that I have contributed to the
> Salvation Army's refugee appeal with as much as I can spare?
>
> Promble is I cazzun! I'm beginning to think I don't want to be here any
> more, and if I developed a sickness that was terminal, I would be glad.
> My time would be done. Don't revive!

Cheer up Tone, it might never 'appen. Wot? Wozzat? Oh apparently it already
has 'appened. Well, nowt to be done about it by old farts like us so best
just carry on enjoying life as best we can.

--
Peter
-----

On Sat, 26 Mar 2022 17:25:58 +0000, Tone <tone@email.com> wrote:

>For the last two afternoons I have been able to sit in our garden
>enjoying the birds (feathered) feeding from our feeders, the buds
>growing on the trees, the daffodumdillies dafodumdillying and the clear
>blue skies.
>
>Yet in Ukraine families are being bombed out of their homes and
>targetted when trying to escape by a mad dictator and his disillusioned
>troups.
>
>I really can't reconcile those two aspects.
>
>I live in a country where Patel is actively trying to restrict Ukraine
>refugees from getting here, ignoring the fact that her parents were
>refugees who did get here.
>
>And I can do nowt about it. I can't offer my flat to a refugee family.
>There are rules.
>
>I live in a country that pays less to state pensioners than any other
>country in Europe, but where the triple lock on state pensions has been
>pulled making our pensions worth even less. That means I'm going to have
>to stop drinking again just to survive. (shit!)
>
>I live in a country where our PM is so embarrassing that the EU would
>not let him join a summit meeting. I understand that. I don't want him
>here either, or his cabinet cronies.
>
>So what the fuck?
>
>Just enjoy my bit of life knowing that I have contributed to the
>Salvation Army's refugee appeal with as much as I can spare?
>
>Promble is I cazzun! I'm beginning to think I don't want to be here any
>more, and if I developed a sickness that was terminal, I would be glad.
>My time would be done. Don't revive!
>
>(If this is too political for you, Snipe, then tuff! Bury your head in
>the sand and pretend none of it is happening to you or anyone else.
>
>But it is.)
>
>Tone

Our deputy PM didn't mince words -

" History will judge President Putin as harshly as
the world condemns him today.
Today, he cements his place in the ranks of the reviled
European dictators who caused such carnage in the 20th century. "
. . . Chrystia Freeland Feb. 24, 2022

.... she was a bit of a bad-ass when she was younger :

https://coat.ncf.ca/research/Chomiak-Freeland/freeland_1989_articles.htm

https://www.newspapers.com/clip/48118493/edmonton-journal/

John T.

On Sat, 26 Mar 2022 17:25:58 +0000
Tone <tone@email.com> wrote:

> For the last two afternoons I have been able to sit in our garden
> enjoying the birds (feathered) feeding from our feeders, the buds
> growing on the trees, the daffodumdillies dafodumdillying and the clear
> blue skies.
>
> Yet in Ukraine families are being bombed out of their homes and
> targetted when trying to escape by a mad dictator and his disillusioned
> troups.
>
> I really can't reconcile those two aspects.

We have become used to peace, apart from the middle east which is
frequently every bit as horrific as the Ukraine right now but has been that
way for so long that we've become numb to it.

Reflect that the Woodstock festival and many others around the
time were basically parties to protest the Vietnam war, which didn't stop
folks from enjoying themselves despite knowing people who had been drafted
and probably weren't coming back.

If you want an encouraging thought - when we were children the idea
of moving borders by force was *normal* now the attempt has brought
condemnation from practically every country and support from nowhere. The
pace is slow, there's a long way to go but the direction seems good.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/

On 26/03/2022 17:25, Tone wrote:
> For the last two afternoons I have been able to sit in our garden
> enjoying the birds (feathered) feeding from our feeders, the buds
> growing on the trees, the daffodumdillies dafodumdillying and the clear
> blue skies.
>
> Yet in Ukraine families are being bombed out of their homes and
> targetted when trying to escape by a mad dictator and his disillusioned
> troups.
>
> I really can't reconcile those two aspects.
>
> I live in a country where Patel is actively trying to restrict Ukraine
> refugees from getting here, ignoring the fact that her parents were
> refugees who did get here.
>
> And I can do nowt about it. I can't offer my flat to a refugee family.
> There are rules.
>
> I live in a country that pays less to state pensioners than any other
> country in Europe, but where the triple lock on state pensions has been
> pulled making our pensions worth even less. That means I'm going to have
> to stop drinking again just to survive. (shit!)
>
> I live in a country where our PM is so embarrassing that the EU would
> not let him join a summit meeting. I understand that. I don't want him
> here either, or his cabinet cronies.
>
> So what the fuck?
>
> Just enjoy my bit of life knowing that I have contributed to the
> Salvation Army's refugee appeal with as much as I can spare?
>
> Promble is I cazzun! I'm beginning to think I don't want to be here any
> more, and if I developed a sickness that was terminal, I would be glad.
> My time would be done. Don't revive!
>
> (If this is too political for you, Snipe, then tuff! Bury your head in
> the sand and pretend none of it is happening to you or anyone else.
>
> But it is.)
>
> Tone
>

Is it time to start calling Putin "The Butcher of Mariupol" yet?

--
Chris Elvidge
England

On 2022-03-26, Tone <tone@email.com> wrote:
> For the last two afternoons I have been able to sit in our garden
> enjoying the birds (feathered) feeding from our feeders, the buds
> growing on the trees, the daffodumdillies dafodumdillying and the clear
> blue skies.
>
> Yet in Ukraine families are being bombed out of their homes and
> targetted when trying to escape by a mad dictator and his disillusioned
> troups.
>
> I really can't reconcile those two aspects.
>
> I live in a country where Patel is actively trying to restrict Ukraine
> refugees from getting here, ignoring the fact that her parents were
> refugees who did get here.

Reportedly, some of the Afgan refugee were drug dealers.

>
> And I can do nowt about it. I can't offer my flat to a refugee family.
> There are rules.
>
> I live in a country that pays less to state pensioners than any other
> country in Europe, but where the triple lock on state pensions has been
> pulled making our pensions worth even less. That means I'm going to have
> to stop drinking again just to survive. (shit!)

State pensions in Irish Republic are higher than UK, but other social services
are not really present (five year waits, etc)

>
> I live in a country where our PM is so embarrassing that the EU would
> not let him join a summit meeting. I understand that. I don't want him
> here either, or his cabinet cronies.

Ours (PM) is worse.

>
> So what the fuck?
>
> Just enjoy my bit of life knowing that I have contributed to the
> Salvation Army's refugee appeal with as much as I can spare?
>
> Promble is I cazzun! I'm beginning to think I don't want to be here any
> more, and if I developed a sickness that was terminal, I would be glad.
> My time would be done. Don't revive!
>
> (If this is too political for you, Snipe, then tuff! Bury your head in
> the sand and pretend none of it is happening to you or anyone else.
>
> But it is.)
>
> Tone
>

Enjoy looking at the birds, both sorts. Far away fields are always
greener.
--
greymausg@mail.com
That's not a mousehole!

On 26-Mar-22 18:52, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> If you want an encouraging thought - when we were children the idea
> of moving borders by force was*normal* now the attempt has brought
> condemnation from practically every country and support from nowhere.

Well Dubai seems to have opened its arms to all those poor Russian
Oligarchs[1] who are being so horribly oppressed.

China seems to be boldly pursuing its own best interests.

[1] And their zu.

--
Sam Plusnet

On Sat, 26 Mar 2022 17:25:58 +0000, Tone <tone@email.com> wrote:

>For the last two afternoons I have been able to sit in our garden
>enjoying the birds (feathered) feeding from our feeders, the buds
>growing on the trees, the daffodumdillies dafodumdillying and the clear
>blue skies.
>
>Yet in Ukraine families are being bombed out of their homes and
>targetted when trying to escape by a mad dictator and his disillusioned
>troups.
>
>I really can't reconcile those two aspects.
>
>I live in a country where Patel is actively trying to restrict Ukraine
>refugees from getting here, ignoring the fact that her parents were
>refugees who did get here.
>
>And I can do nowt about it. I can't offer my flat to a refugee family.
>There are rules.
>
>I live in a country that pays less to state pensioners than any other
>country in Europe, but where the triple lock on state pensions has been
>pulled making our pensions worth even less. That means I'm going to have
>to stop drinking again just to survive. (shit!)
>
>I live in a country where our PM is so embarrassing that the EU would
>not let him join a summit meeting. I understand that. I don't want him
>here either, or his cabinet cronies.
>
>So what the fuck?
>
>Just enjoy my bit of life knowing that I have contributed to the
>Salvation Army's refugee appeal with as much as I can spare?
>
>Promble is I cazzun! I'm beginning to think I don't want to be here any
>more, and if I developed a sickness that was terminal, I would be glad.
>My time would be done. Don't revive!
>
>(If this is too political for you, Snipe, then tuff! Bury your head in
>the sand and pretend none of it is happening to you or anyone else.
>
>But it is.)

It's not binary, is it? Sometimes the best of times are caught up in
the worst of times. Charles Dickens expounded on that theme for over
400 pages in A Tale of Two Cities: just be grateful that the worst
misery a folk singer is likely to inflict on your ears is unlikely to
run beyond forty or fifty verses sung with a finger stuck in their
ear!

Nick

On 2022-03-26, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> On Sat, 26 Mar 2022 17:25:58 +0000
> Tone <tone@email.com> wrote:
>
>> For the last two afternoons I have been able to sit in our garden
>> enjoying the birds (feathered) feeding from our feeders, the buds
>> growing on the trees, the daffodumdillies dafodumdillying and the clear
>> blue skies.
>>
>> Yet in Ukraine families are being bombed out of their homes and
>> targetted when trying to escape by a mad dictator and his disillusioned
>> troups.
>>
>> I really can't reconcile those two aspects.
>
> We have become used to peace, apart from the middle east which is
> frequently every bit as horrific as the Ukraine right now but has been that
> way for so long that we've become numb to it.

The New York Times reports that up until the Ukraine debacle we have had the
lowest level of warfare in history.

--
Bernard Peek
bap@shrdlu.com

On 27 Mar 2022 12:42:14 GMT, Bernard Peek <bap@shrdlu.com> wrote:

>On 2022-03-26, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>> On Sat, 26 Mar 2022 17:25:58 +0000
>> Tone <tone@email.com> wrote:
>>
>>> For the last two afternoons I have been able to sit in our garden
>>> enjoying the birds (feathered) feeding from our feeders, the buds
>>> growing on the trees, the daffodumdillies dafodumdillying and the clear
>>> blue skies.
>>>
>>> Yet in Ukraine families are being bombed out of their homes and
>>> targetted when trying to escape by a mad dictator and his disillusioned
>>> troups.
>>>
>>> I really can't reconcile those two aspects.
>>
>> We have become used to peace, apart from the middle east which is
>> frequently every bit as horrific as the Ukraine right now but has been that
>> way for so long that we've become numb to it.
>
>The New York Times reports that up until the Ukraine debacle we have had the
>lowest level of warfare in history.

Which speaks poorly for history
rather than well for recent times.
John T.

On 2022-03-27, Bernard Peek <bap@shrdlu.com> wrote:
> On 2022-03-26, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>> On Sat, 26 Mar 2022 17:25:58 +0000
>> Tone <tone@email.com> wrote:
>>
>>> For the last two afternoons I have been able to sit in our garden
>>> enjoying the birds (feathered) feeding from our feeders, the buds
>>> growing on the trees, the daffodumdillies dafodumdillying and the clear
>>> blue skies.
>>>
>>> Yet in Ukraine families are being bombed out of their homes and
>>> targetted when trying to escape by a mad dictator and his disillusioned
>>> troups.
>>>
>>> I really can't reconcile those two aspects.
>>
>> We have become used to peace, apart from the middle east which is
>> frequently every bit as horrific as the Ukraine right now but has been that
>> way for so long that we've become numb to it.
>
> The New York Times reports that up until the Ukraine debacle we have had the
> lowest level of warfare in history.

It would. I don't think it considers slaughtering millions of
Vietnamese, Serbians, Iraquis, or Syrians as real warfare.

--
greymausg@mail.com
That's not a mousehole!

On 26/03/2022 21:05, Sam Plusnet wrote:
> On 26-Mar-22 18:52, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>>     If you want an encouraging thought - when we were children the idea
>> of moving borders by force was*normal*  now the attempt has brought
>> condemnation from practically every country and support from nowhere.
>
> Well Dubai seems to have opened its arms to all those poor Russian
> Oligarchs[1] who are being so horribly oppressed.

And Turkey. That won't help their aspirations to join the EU. Should be
sanctions on the countries who are providing aid to Russia too.

On 26/03/2022 18:04, hubops@ccanoemail.ca wrote:
> On Sat, 26 Mar 2022 17:25:58 +0000, Tone <tone@email.com> wrote:
>
>> For the last two afternoons I have been able to sit in our garden
>> enjoying the birds (feathered) feeding from our feeders, the buds
>> growing on the trees, the daffodumdillies dafodumdillying and the clear
>> blue skies.
>>
>> Yet in Ukraine families are being bombed out of their homes and
>> targetted when trying to escape by a mad dictator and his disillusioned
>> troups.
>>
>> I really can't reconcile those two aspects.
>>
>> I live in a country where Patel is actively trying to restrict Ukraine
>> refugees from getting here, ignoring the fact that her parents were
>> refugees who did get here.
>>
>> And I can do nowt about it. I can't offer my flat to a refugee family.
>> There are rules.
>>
>> I live in a country that pays less to state pensioners than any other
>> country in Europe, but where the triple lock on state pensions has been
>> pulled making our pensions worth even less. That means I'm going to have
>> to stop drinking again just to survive. (shit!)
>>
>> I live in a country where our PM is so embarrassing that the EU would
>> not let him join a summit meeting. I understand that. I don't want him
>> here either, or his cabinet cronies.
>>
>> So what the fuck?
>>
>> Just enjoy my bit of life knowing that I have contributed to the
>> Salvation Army's refugee appeal with as much as I can spare?
>>
>> Promble is I cazzun! I'm beginning to think I don't want to be here any
>> more, and if I developed a sickness that was terminal, I would be glad.
>> My time would be done. Don't revive!
>>
>> (If this is too political for you, Snipe, then tuff! Bury your head in
>> the sand and pretend none of it is happening to you or anyone else.
>>
>> But it is.)
>>
>> Tone
>
>
> Our deputy PM didn't mince words -
>
> " History will judge President Putin as harshly as
> the world condemns him today.
> Today, he cements his place in the ranks of the reviled
> European dictators who caused such carnage in the 20th century. "
> . . . Chrystia Freeland Feb. 24, 2022
>
> ... she was a bit of a bad-ass when she was younger :
>
> https://coat.ncf.ca/research/Chomiak-Freeland/freeland_1989_articles.htm

Looks like that's a Canadian offshoot of Pravda. Perhaps they'd like
Nigel Farage to jbex for them. In fact, we could do a two for the cevpr
of one offer and throw in George Galloway too, and they can have Craig
Murray free, gratis, and for nothing.

On 27/03/2022 19:07, Mike Fleming wrote:
> On 26/03/2022 21:05, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>> On 26-Mar-22 18:52, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>>> If you want an encouraging thought - when we were children the idea
>>> of moving borders by force was*normal* now the attempt has brought
>>> condemnation from practically every country and support from nowhere.
>>
>> Well Dubai seems to have opened its arms to all those poor Russian
>> Oligarchs[1] who are being so horribly oppressed.
>
> And Turkey. That won't help their aspirations to join the EU. Should be
> sanctions on the countries who are providing aid to Russia too.

But Turkey did provide drones to Ukraine.

--
Chris Elvidge
England

On 27-Mar-22 20:22, Chris Elvidge wrote:
> On 27/03/2022 19:07, Mike Fleming wrote:
>> On 26/03/2022 21:05, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>>> On 26-Mar-22 18:52, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>>>>     If you want an encouraging thought - when we were children the idea
>>>> of moving borders by force was*normal*  now the attempt has brought
>>>> condemnation from practically every country and support from nowhere.
>>>
>>> Well Dubai seems to have opened its arms to all those poor Russian
>>> Oligarchs[1] who are being so horribly oppressed.
>>
>> And Turkey. That won't help their aspirations to join the EU. Should
>> be sanctions on the countries who are providing aid to Russia too.
>
> But Turkey did provide drones to Ukraine.

That's an interesting point.
Turkey's economy was already in shreds - and they import almost all
their energy needs from Russia - so supplying a major weapon to Russia's
(current) enemy _might_ have some negative quince-e-quonces.

--
Sam Plusnet

On 27/03/2022 20:30, Sam Plusnet wrote:
> On 27-Mar-22 20:22, Chris Elvidge wrote:
>> On 27/03/2022 19:07, Mike Fleming wrote:
>>> On 26/03/2022 21:05, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>>>> On 26-Mar-22 18:52, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>>>>>     If you want an encouraging thought - when we were children the
>>>>> idea
>>>>> of moving borders by force was*normal*  now the attempt has brought
>>>>> condemnation from practically every country and support from nowhere.
>>>>
>>>> Well Dubai seems to have opened its arms to all those poor Russian
>>>> Oligarchs[1] who are being so horribly oppressed.
>>>
>>> And Turkey. That won't help their aspirations to join the EU. Should
>>> be sanctions on the countries who are providing aid to Russia too.
>>
>> But Turkey did provide drones to Ukraine.
>
> That's an interesting point.
> Turkey's economy was already in shreds - and they import almost all
> their energy needs from Russia - so supplying a major weapon to Russia's
> (current) enemy _might_ have some negative quince-e-quonces.

"We just put them on Ebay, we didn't realise who were sending them to".

Backing both horses in the race?

On 2022-03-27, Mike Fleming <mike@tauzero.co.uk> wrote:
> On 26/03/2022 21:05, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>> On 26-Mar-22 18:52, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>>>     If you want an encouraging thought - when we were children the idea
>>> of moving borders by force was*normal*  now the attempt has brought
>>> condemnation from practically every country and support from nowhere.
>>
>> Well Dubai seems to have opened its arms to all those poor Russian
>> Oligarchs[1] who are being so horribly oppressed.
>
> And Turkey. That won't help their aspirations to join the EU. Should be
> sanctions on the countries who are providing aid to Russia too.

As someone who is interested still in the real world, I should point out
that the real victims are us.

last year, urea, 450 euros a ton, Friday evening, 1200 euros.
--
greymausg@mail.com
That's not a mousehole!

maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote in news:slrnt42rir.977.maus@dmaus.org:

>
> last year, urea, 450 euros a ton, Friday evening, 1200 euros.

Come on, you're taking the cvff.

--
Peter
-----

On 28 Mar 2022 08:14:19 GMT, maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote:

>On 2022-03-27, Mike Fleming <mike@tauzero.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 26/03/2022 21:05, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>>> On 26-Mar-22 18:52, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>>>>     If you want an encouraging thought - when we were children the idea
>>>> of moving borders by force was*normal*  now the attempt has brought
>>>> condemnation from practically every country and support from nowhere.
>>>
>>> Well Dubai seems to have opened its arms to all those poor Russian
>>> Oligarchs[1] who are being so horribly oppressed.
>>
>> And Turkey. That won't help their aspirations to join the EU. Should be
>> sanctions on the countries who are providing aid to Russia too.
>
>
>As someone who is interested still in the real world, I should point out
>that the real victims are us.
>
>last year, urea, 450 euros a ton, Friday evening, 1200 euros.

Perhaps we need to instill a more do-it-yourself approach to urea
production? Dunno if it's still the same today but back in the 90's
after my mother had visited China for the first time since 1928 she
remarked that there were great steel vats on the street corners and
everybody regularly emptied their urine into them. Not directly, of
course: via an intermediate container. Imagine bottle-banks with
somewhat whiffier contents. I don't suppose the Chinese had a urea
shortage.

Nick

On Monday, March 28, 2022 at 4:13:20 AM UTC-5, Peter wrote:
> maus <ma...@dmaus.org> wrote in news:slrnt42ri...@dmaus.org:
> >
> > last year, urea, 450 euros a ton, Friday evening, 1200 euros.
> Come on, you're taking the cvff.
>
> --
> Peter
> -----

I sacked rice and beans for poor people here in Victoria, Texas at the food bank for several years. I had no way to know or prove where that food was going , it could've been going to a war effort for all I knew.

On 28/03/2022 09:14, maus wrote:
> On 2022-03-27, Mike Fleming <mike@tauzero.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 26/03/2022 21:05, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>>> On 26-Mar-22 18:52, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>>>>     If you want an encouraging thought - when we were children the idea
>>>> of moving borders by force was*normal*  now the attempt has brought
>>>> condemnation from practically every country and support from nowhere.
>>>
>>> Well Dubai seems to have opened its arms to all those poor Russian
>>> Oligarchs[1] who are being so horribly oppressed.
>>
>> And Turkey. That won't help their aspirations to join the EU. Should be
>> sanctions on the countries who are providing aid to Russia too.
>
> As someone who is interested still in the real world, I should point out
> that the real victims are us.
>
> last year, urea, 450 euros a ton, Friday evening, 1200 euros.

So less environmentally damaging runoff, then.

I think that paying a bit more for food makes us slightly less "real
victims" than people who are getting blown to bits. It never hurts to
get a bit of perspective.

In article <ap434hp8f3htbu73vovqm806nreokoh6q2@4ax.com>, Nick Odell
<nick@themusicworkshop.plus.com> on Mon, 28 Mar 2022 at 11:58:23 awoke
Nicholas from his slumbers and wrote
>On 28 Mar 2022 08:14:19 GMT, maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote:
>
>>On 2022-03-27, Mike Fleming <mike@tauzero.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On 26/03/2022 21:05, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>>>> On 26-Mar-22 18:52, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>>>>>     If you want an encouraging thought - when we were children the idea
>>>>> of moving borders by force was*normal*  now the attempt has brought
>>>>> condemnation from practically every country and support from nowhere.
>>>>
>>>> Well Dubai seems to have opened its arms to all those poor Russian
>>>> Oligarchs[1] who are being so horribly oppressed.
>>>
>>> And Turkey. That won't help their aspirations to join the EU. Should be
>>> sanctions on the countries who are providing aid to Russia too.
>>
>>
>>As someone who is interested still in the real world, I should point out
>>that the real victims are us.
>>
>>last year, urea, 450 euros a ton, Friday evening, 1200 euros.
>
>Perhaps we need to instill a more do-it-yourself approach to urea
>production? Dunno if it's still the same today but back in the 90's
>after my mother had visited China for the first time since 1928 she
>remarked that there were great steel vats on the street corners and
>everybody regularly emptied their urine into them. Not directly, of
>course: via an intermediate container. Imagine bottle-banks with
>somewhat whiffier contents. I don't suppose the Chinese had a urea
>shortage.
>
Dunno what the Chinese were using urine collection for (in the 20th
Century), saltpetre, as dye mordant or fertilizer (in that case NaCl has
to be removed first) perhaps.

From the very late middle ages onwards many European Powers had laws
that, to a greater or lesser extent, controlled the disposal of urine.
They did that not for hygiene, but help create a domestic source of
gunpowder.

As early as (early by European standards) the Battle of Crécy(1346)
while notable for the devastating use of longbow equipped troops is also
notable for the use of some sort firearms (the nature of which is
difficult to ascertain).
--
0sterc@tcher -

"Où sont les neiges d'antan?"

Mike Fleming wrote:

> And Turkey. That won't help their aspirations to join the EU.

I think they waved bye-bye to those on 15th July 2016?

On 2022-03-28, Don Stockbauer <donstockbauer@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Monday, March 28, 2022 at 4:13:20 AM UTC-5, Peter wrote:
>> maus <ma...@dmaus.org> wrote in news:slrnt42ri...@dmaus.org:
>> >
>> > last year, urea, 450 euros a ton, Friday evening, 1200 euros.
>> Come on, you're taking the cvff.
>>
>> --
>> Peter
>> -----
>
> I sacked rice and beans for poor people here in Victoria, Texas at the food bank for several years. I had no way to know or prove where that food was going , it could've been going to a war effort for all I knew.

Nuevo Laredo (sp?)

--
greymausg@mail.com
That's not a mousehole!

On 2022-03-28, Nick Odell <nick@themusicworkshop.plus.com> wrote:
> On 28 Mar 2022 08:14:19 GMT, maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote:
>
>>On 2022-03-27, Mike Fleming <mike@tauzero.co.uk> wrote:
> everybody regularly emptied their urine into them. Not directly, of
> course: via an intermediate container. Imagine bottle-banks with
> somewhat whiffier contents. I don't suppose the Chinese had a urea
> shortage.
>
> Nick

Add in french type urinals. Brilliant. Urine was collected for many
years and many purposes. I'm not taking the *

--
greymausg@mail.com
That's not a mousehole!