On Wed, 30 Mar 2022 13:44:43 +0100, "Nicholas D. Richards"
<nicholas@salmiron.com> wrote:

>Some Russian generals appear to have been leading from the front <cough>
>which is not the best place to lead from in the case of modern war.

And the bullet hole might be in the back, too...

Thomas Prufer

Sam Plusnet said:
> On 30-Mar-22 13:44, Nicholas D. Richards wrote:
>> In article <jahm4kFp8caU2@mid.individual.net>, Mike Fleming
>>> On 29/03/2022 20:21, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Yep it certainly used to be the case that if you wanted
>>>> people to charge into battle for you then you had to be in
>>>> front and when you went down they went home. There seems to
>>>> be a lot to be said for it, but I note that in those days
>>>> they *did* go out in front quite a lot so it's probably not
>>>> the deterrent I'd like to hope it was.
>>>
>>> I'm not sure about the "went home" bit. I don't think there was a
>>> concept of prisoners of war then, so your survival if you were on
>>> the losing side depended on your speed over the ground.
>>
>> Survival depended upon, amongst other things, your ransom value. In
>> quality armour with your coat of arms on your surcoat, would see you
>> paroled and sent back to the rear. None of those, your head or chest
>> would be stoved in, if you were lucky.
>
> If you go back further than that, any that survived the battle had
> value - as slaves. Having an economy which did not rely on slavery is
> a (comparatively) recent idea.

I have read that it was the Normans who introduced the idea to England
that slavery was wrong (thanks to the Roman church).

Other forms of exploitation were available.

--
Richard Robinson
"The whole plan hinged upon the natural curiosity of potatoes" - S. Lem

My email address is at http://qualmograph.org.uk/contact.html

On 2022-03-31, Richard Robinson <richardR@privacy.net> wrote:
> Sam Plusnet said:
>> On 30-Mar-22 13:44, Nicholas D. Richards wrote:
>>> In article <jahm4kFp8caU2@mid.individual.net>, Mike Fleming
>>>> On 29/03/2022 20:21, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Yep it certainly used to be the case that if you wanted
>>>>> people to charge into battle for you then you had to be in
>>>>> front and when you went down they went home. There seems to
>>>>> be a lot to be said for it, but I note that in those days
>>>>> they *did* go out in front quite a lot so it's probably not
>>>>> the deterrent I'd like to hope it was.
>>>>
>>>> I'm not sure about the "went home" bit. I don't think there was a
>>>> concept of prisoners of war then, so your survival if you were on
>>>> the losing side depended on your speed over the ground.
>>>
>>> Survival depended upon, amongst other things, your ransom value. In
>>> quality armour with your coat of arms on your surcoat, would see you
>>> paroled and sent back to the rear. None of those, your head or chest
>>> would be stoved in, if you were lucky.
>>
>> If you go back further than that, any that survived the battle had
>> value - as slaves. Having an economy which did not rely on slavery is
>> a (comparatively) recent idea.
>
> I have read that it was the Normans who introduced the idea to England
> that slavery was wrong (thanks to the Roman church).
>
> Other forms of exploitation were available.
>

Serfdom. You can still buy slaves in American Libya. I don't know if
they can be delivered.

--
greymausg@mail.com
That's not a mousehole!

On 30/03/2022 13:44, Nicholas D. Richards wrote:
>
> Some Russian generals appear to have been leading from the front <cough>
> which is not the best place to lead from in the case of modern war.

It's possible that the front came back to meet them.

On 30/03/2022 22:30, maus wrote:
> On 2022-03-30, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
>> On 30-Mar-22 15:15, maus wrote:
>>>
>>> The Military theory at the time was that the Generals would be affected
>>> by the deaths and suffering of the front line troops, so the idea was
>>> that they would make the plans in places well away from the front line,
>>> and do something else while the attack was going on. Maybe go fishing.
>>
>> I thought you sought a suitable hill top - from which you could see all
>> the various forces on the battlefield, and direct your troops hither and
>> yon to achieve the best result.
>
> Not since sniper rifles became common.

"They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance".

Mike Fleming said:
> On 30/03/2022 22:30, maus wrote:
>> On 2022-03-30, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
>>> On 30-Mar-22 15:15, maus wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The Military theory at the time was that the Generals would be affected
>>>> by the deaths and suffering of the front line troops, so the idea was
>>>> that they would make the plans in places well away from the front line,
>>>> and do something else while the attack was going on. Maybe go fishing.
>>>
>>> I thought you sought a suitable hill top - from which you could see all
>>> the various forces on the battlefield, and direct your troops hither and
>>> yon to achieve the best result.
>>
>> Not since sniper rifles became common.

And trench warfare left them pretty bored after a couple of years of no
movement ?

> "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance".

<sniper> "I'm not trying to"

--
Richard Robinson
"The whole plan hinged upon the natural curiosity of potatoes" - S. Lem

My email address is at http://qualmograph.org.uk/contact.html

In article <slrnt49iso.9cp.maus@dmaus.org>, maus <maus@dmaus.org> on
Wed, 30 Mar 2022 at 21:28:56 awoke Nicholas from his slumbers and wrote
>On 2022-03-30, Tone <tone@email.com> wrote:
>> On 30/03/2022 15:15, maus wrote:
>>> On 2022-03-30, Richard Robinson <richardR@privacy.net> wrote:
>
>Memory of when I was young and foolish, and Carlsberg Special Brew was
>the thing.

Memories of dealing with drunken squatters (Polish as it happens, but
others were available), who seemed to consider my garrige to be as good
as Claridges. They had broken the door off its hinges and used to lift
it up and re-lean it across the frame.

To my surprise there were lots of large (2 litre) clear plastic lemonade
bottles lying around. Must have been a quiet day as the ecilop were on
hand to ensure that there was no breach of the peace, if they turned up,
as we cleared their rubbish out of the garrige, and a local builder
secured the doors.

When I said to a namecilop that I had never heard of a lemonade called
'White Lightening', he had a funny smile on his face.
>
>May I suggest `So do I', many claimed authors, well sung by Christy
>Moore,
>

--
0sterc@tcher -

"Où sont les neiges d'antan?"

In article <slrnt49ivj.9cp.maus@dmaus.org>, maus <maus@dmaus.org> on
Wed, 30 Mar 2022 at 21:30:27 awoke Nicholas from his slumbers and wrote
>On 2022-03-30, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
>> On 30-Mar-22 15:15, maus wrote:
>>> On 2022-03-30, Richard Robinson <richardR@privacy.net> wrote:
>>>> Nicholas D. Richards said:
>>>>> In article <jahm4kFp8caU2@mid.individual.net>, Mike Fleming
>>>>> <mike@tauzero.co.uk> on Wed, 30 Mar 2022 at 01:21:39 awoke Nicholas
>>>>> from his slumbers and wrote
>>>>>> On 29/03/2022 20:21, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>>>>>>> On Tue, 29 Mar 2022 13:26:16 -0500
>>>>>>> Richard Robinson <richardR@privacy.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Shakespeare's Richard III, who appears to have led from the front, was
>>>>> not even fast enough over the ground.
>>>>>
>>>>> Some Russian generals appear to have been leading from the front <cough>
>>>>> which is not the best place to lead from in the case of modern war.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I think that was the point, wasn't it, that there'd be less of it if
>>>> more of them did ?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That WW1 phrase about "Lions led by donkeys" is surreal - if you see a
>>>> pack of lions following along behind a donkey, what do you expect to
>>>> happen next ?
>>>>
>>>
>>> The Military theory at the time was that the Generals would be affected
>>> by the deaths and suffering of the front line troops, so the idea was
>>> that they would make the plans in places well away from the front line,
>>> and do something else while the attack was going on. Maybe go fishing.
>>
>> I thought you sought a suitable hill top - from which you could see all
>> the various forces on the battlefield, and direct your troops hither and
>> yon to achieve the best result.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>Not since sniper rifles became common.

At least two centuries then. Wellington was using riflemen as
skirmishers, intelligence gatherers and snipers in the Peninsular War.
They specialised in knocking over French Officers when they (the French)
least expected it.
--
0sterc@tcher -

"Où sont les neiges d'antan?"

In article <6dadnSYzD41ST9n_nZ2dnUU7-IednZ2d@brightview.co.uk>, Richard
Robinson <richardR@privacy.net> on Wed, 30 Mar 2022 at 16:59:43 awoke
Nicholas from his slumbers and wrote
>Tease'n'Seize said:
>> Richard Robinson wrote:
>>
>>> if you see a pack of lions following along behind a donkey, what do you
>>> expect to happen next ?
>> om-nom-nom.
>
>Quite. But they didn't take the hint.
>
By and large predators treated donkeys as bad tempered and extremely
dangerous; young gnus are safer and easier.

In some parts of the world donkeys are treated as guard dogs for
livestock.
--
0sterc@tcher -

"Où sont les neiges d'antan?"

On 31/03/2022 14:16, Mike Fleming wrote:
> On 30/03/2022 22:30, maus wrote:
>> On 2022-03-30, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
>>> On 30-Mar-22 15:15, maus wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The Military theory at the time was that the Generals would be affected
>>>> by the deaths and  suffering of the front line troops, so the idea was
>>>> that they would make the plans in places well away from the front line,
>>>> and do something else while the attack was going on. Maybe go fishing.
>>>
>>> I thought you sought a suitable hill top - from which you could see all
>>> the various forces on the battlefield, and direct your troops hither and
>>> yon to achieve the best result.
>>
>> Not since sniper rifles became common.
>
> "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance".

First time I used my P14 (·303 Enfield rifle) I scored 5 V-bulls out of
5 shots at 500 yds, (Lyman peep-sight).

--
Rusty Hinge
To err is human. To really foul things up requires a computer and the BOFH.

On 31/03/2022 15:03, Nicholas D. Richards wrote:
> In article <slrnt49ivj.9cp.maus@dmaus.org>, maus <maus@dmaus.org> on
> Wed, 30 Mar 2022 at 21:30:27 awoke Nicholas from his slumbers and wrote
>> On 2022-03-30, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
>>> On 30-Mar-22 15:15, maus wrote:
>>>> On 2022-03-30, Richard Robinson <richardR@privacy.net> wrote:
>>>>> Nicholas D. Richards said:
>>>>>> In article <jahm4kFp8caU2@mid.individual.net>, Mike Fleming
>>>>>> <mike@tauzero.co.uk> on Wed, 30 Mar 2022 at 01:21:39 awoke Nicholas
>>>>>> from his slumbers and wrote
>>>>>>> On 29/03/2022 20:21, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Tue, 29 Mar 2022 13:26:16 -0500
>>>>>>>> Richard Robinson <richardR@privacy.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Shakespeare's Richard III, who appears to have led from the front, was
>>>>>> not even fast enough over the ground.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Some Russian generals appear to have been leading from the front <cough>
>>>>>> which is not the best place to lead from in the case of modern war.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I think that was the point, wasn't it, that there'd be less of it if
>>>>> more of them did ?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> That WW1 phrase about "Lions led by donkeys" is surreal - if you see a
>>>>> pack of lions following along behind a donkey, what do you expect to
>>>>> happen next ?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The Military theory at the time was that the Generals would be affected
>>>> by the deaths and suffering of the front line troops, so the idea was
>>>> that they would make the plans in places well away from the front line,
>>>> and do something else while the attack was going on. Maybe go fishing.
>>>
>>> I thought you sought a suitable hill top - from which you could see all
>>> the various forces on the battlefield, and direct your troops hither and
>>> yon to achieve the best result.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> Not since sniper rifles became common.
>
> At least two centuries then. Wellington was using riflemen as
> skirmishers, intelligence gatherers and snipers in the Peninsular War.
> They specialised in knocking over French Officers when they (the French)
> least expected it.

And because some of them used grown-up air-rifles which were quieter
than those hfvat gnupowder, as well as not leaving tell-tale cloud of
smoke to betray the sniper's position, he announce that anyone caught
with such a weapon would be executed.

--
Rusty Hinge
To err is human. To really foul things up requires a computer and the BOFH.

On 31/03/2022 13:20, maus wrote:
> On 2022-03-31, Richard Robinson <richardR@privacy.net> wrote:
>> Sam Plusnet said:
>>> On 30-Mar-22 13:44, Nicholas D. Richards wrote:
>>>> In article <jahm4kFp8caU2@mid.individual.net>, Mike Fleming
>>>>> On 29/03/2022 20:21, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yep it certainly used to be the case that if you wanted
>>>>>> people to charge into battle for you then you had to be in
>>>>>> front and when you went down they went home. There seems to
>>>>>> be a lot to be said for it, but I note that in those days
>>>>>> they *did* go out in front quite a lot so it's probably not
>>>>>> the deterrent I'd like to hope it was.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm not sure about the "went home" bit. I don't think there was a
>>>>> concept of prisoners of war then, so your survival if you were on
>>>>> the losing side depended on your speed over the ground.
>>>>
>>>> Survival depended upon, amongst other things, your ransom value. In
>>>> quality armour with your coat of arms on your surcoat, would see you
>>>> paroled and sent back to the rear. None of those, your head or chest
>>>> would be stoved in, if you were lucky.
>>>
>>> If you go back further than that, any that survived the battle had
>>> value - as slaves. Having an economy which did not rely on slavery is
>>> a (comparatively) recent idea.
>>
>> I have read that it was the Normans who introduced the idea to England
>> that slavery was wrong (thanks to the Roman church).
>>
>> Other forms of exploitation were available.
>>
>
>
> Serfdom. You can still buy slaves in American Libya. I don't know if
> they can be delivered.

Only by force, or they escaping.

--
Rusty Hinge
To err is human. To really foul things up requires a computer and the BOFH.

On Thu, 31 Mar 2022 15:07:46 +0100
"Nicholas D. Richards" <nicholas@salmiron.com> wrote:

> By and large predators treated donkeys as bad tempered and extremely
> dangerous

Not unreasonable, they're clever, can deliver a terrible kick and
make a mind numbing amount of noise.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/

On 2022-03-31, RustyHinge <rusty.hinge@foobar.girolle.co.uk> wrote:
> On 31/03/2022 14:16, Mike Fleming wrote:
>> On 30/03/2022 22:30, maus wrote:
>>> On 2022-03-30, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
>>>> On 30-Mar-22 15:15, maus wrote:
>>>>>
>> "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance".
>

> First time I used my P14 (·303 Enfield rifle) I scored 5 V-bulls out of
> 5 shots at 500 yds, (Lyman peep-sight).

KAR98 was, and is, a good gun also. I remembered competitions to shoot
a cork into a bottle with a 303. Nobody succeeded, I don't think it
was possible.

Those rifles were the thing between the Sudan war, and the arrival of
the trench brooms. The automatics encouraged wasteful firing, I notice
that the Israeli Army use either heavy barrelled target rifles
(Basically Enfields or Mausers), the mob lot called up seem to use the
trench brooms (Uzi's) , or AK74's.

Our special branch police use Uzis, and have killed their own men
several times. A Friend was telling me of A French company that sells
specialist pistols, accurate out to 200 metres. I don't believe it.

--
greymausg@mail.com
That's not a mousehole!

On 31-Mar-22 2:08, Tone wrote:

> Should have gone to Spacesavers?

Spacesavers?

Don't tell me that's under threat as well.

--
Sam Plusnet

On 31-Mar-22 15:52, RustyHinge wrote:
> On 31/03/2022 15:03, Nicholas D. Richards wrote:
>> In article <slrnt49ivj.9cp.maus@dmaus.org>, maus <maus@dmaus.org>  on
>> Wed, 30 Mar 2022 at 21:30:27 awoke Nicholas from his slumbers and wrote
>>> On 2022-03-30, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
>>>> On 30-Mar-22 15:15, maus wrote:
>>>>> On 2022-03-30, Richard Robinson <richardR@privacy.net> wrote:
>>>>>> Nicholas D. Richards said:
>>>>>>> In article <jahm4kFp8caU2@mid.individual.net>, Mike Fleming
>>>>>>> <mike@tauzero.co.uk>  on Wed, 30 Mar 2022 at 01:21:39 awoke Nicholas
>>>>>>> from his slumbers and wrote
>>>>>>>> On 29/03/2022 20:21, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 29 Mar 2022 13:26:16 -0500
>>>>>>>>> Richard Robinson <richardR@privacy.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Shakespeare's Richard III, who appears to have led from the
>>>>>>> front, was
>>>>>>> not even fast enough over the ground.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Some Russian generals appear to have been leading from the front
>>>>>>> <cough>
>>>>>>> which is not the best place to lead from in the case of modern war.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think that was the point, wasn't it, that there'd be less of it if
>>>>>> more of them did ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That WW1 phrase about "Lions led by donkeys" is surreal - if you
>>>>>> see a
>>>>>> pack of lions following along behind a donkey, what do you expect to
>>>>>> happen next ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The Military theory at the time was that the Generals would be
>>>>> affected
>>>>> by the deaths and  suffering of the front line troops, so the idea was
>>>>> that they would make the plans in places well away from the front
>>>>> line,
>>>>> and do something else while the attack was going on. Maybe go fishing.
>>>>
>>>> I thought you sought a suitable hill top - from which you could see all
>>>> the various forces on the battlefield, and direct your troops hither
>>>> and
>>>> yon to achieve the best result.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Not since sniper rifles became common.
>>
>> At least two centuries then. Wellington was using riflemen as
>> skirmishers, intelligence gatherers and snipers in the Peninsular War.
>> They specialised in knocking over French Officers when they (the French)
>> least expected it.
>
> And because some of them used grown-up air-rifles which were quieter
> than those hfvat gnupowder, as well as not leaving tell-tale cloud of
> smoke to betray the sniper's position, he announce that anyone caught
> with such a weapon would be executed.
>
Interesting point.
Swords make no sound nor puff of smoke, so any officer who carried one
should have been executed on the spot - including... oo-err.

--
Sam Plusnet

On 31-Mar-22 15:39, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> On Thu, 31 Mar 2022 15:07:46 +0100
> "Nicholas D. Richards" <nicholas@salmiron.com> wrote:
>
>> By and large predators treated donkeys as bad tempered and extremely
>> dangerous
>
> Not unreasonable, they're clever, can deliver a terrible kick and
> make a mind numbing amount of noise.
>
But should you use donkeys to guard your flock of geese, or...

--
Sam Plusnet

On 31-Mar-22 6:57, Thomas Prufer wrote:
> On Wed, 30 Mar 2022 13:44:43 +0100, "Nicholas D. Richards"
> <nicholas@salmiron.com> wrote:
>
>> Some Russian generals appear to have been leading from the front <cough>
>> which is not the best place to lead from in the case of modern war.
>
> And the bullet hole might be in the back, too...

360 degree warfare?

--
Sam Plusnet

On 31/03/2022 19:19, maus wrote:
> On 2022-03-31, RustyHinge <rusty.hinge@foobar.girolle.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 31/03/2022 14:16, Mike Fleming wrote:
>>> On 30/03/2022 22:30, maus wrote:
>>>> On 2022-03-30, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 30-Mar-22 15:15, maus wrote:
>>>>>>
>>> "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance".
>>
>
>
>> First time I used my P14 (·303 Enfield rifle) I scored 5 V-bulls out of
>> 5 shots at 500 yds, (Lyman peep-sight).
>
> KAR98 was, and is, a good gun also. I remembered competitions to shoot
> a cork into a bottle with a 303. Nobody succeeded, I don't think it
> was possible.
>
> Those rifles were the thing between the Sudan war, and the arrival of
> the trench brooms. The automatics encouraged wasteful firing, I notice
> that the Israeli Army use either heavy barrelled target rifles
> (Basically Enfields or Mausers), the mob lot called up seem to use the
> trench brooms (Uzi's) , or AK74's.
>
> Our special branch police use Uzis, and have killed their own men
> several times. A Friend was telling me of A French company that sells
> specialist pistols, accurate out to 200 metres. I don't believe it.

I do. On the rifle range with my Star 35zz semi auto I used to hit a
coke can slung up on the sand of the butts 9 times out of ten - that's
130 yards. Not so good with the black powder Remington revolver or the
'cooking' quality muzzle-loading pocket pistol.

--
Rusty Hinge
To err is human. To really foul things up requires a computer and the BOFH.

On 31/03/2022 19:59, Sam Plusnet wrote:
> On 31-Mar-22 15:39, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>> On Thu, 31 Mar 2022 15:07:46 +0100
>> "Nicholas D. Richards" <nicholas@salmiron.com> wrote:
>>
>>> By and large predators treated donkeys as bad tempered and extremely
>>> dangerous
>>
>>     Not unreasonable, they're clever, can deliver a terrible kick and
>> make a mind numbing amount of noise.
>>
> But should you use donkeys to guard your flock of geese, or...

....Vice versa?

--
Rusty Hinge
To err is human. To really foul things up requires a computer and the BOFH.

In article <8mga4hp8qf4e9p21i89euefjc4osu2qdbn@4ax.com>, Thomas Prufer
<prufer.public@mnet-online.de.invalid> on Thu, 31 Mar 2022 at 07:57:52
awoke Nicholas from his slumbers and wrote
>On Wed, 30 Mar 2022 13:44:43 +0100, "Nicholas D. Richards"
><nicholas@salmiron.com> wrote:
>
>>Some Russian generals appear to have been leading from the front <cough>
>>which is not the best place to lead from in the case of modern war.
>
>And the bullet hole might be in the back, too...
>
How often did that happen? (Deliberately shooting your own senior
officer in the back)
--
0sterc@tcher -

"Où sont les neiges d'antan?"

In article <kSm1K.12061$F4h.4176@fx07.ams1>, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com>
on Thu, 31 Mar 2022 at 19:59:28 awoke Nicholas from his slumbers and
wrote
>On 31-Mar-22 15:39, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>> On Thu, 31 Mar 2022 15:07:46 +0100
>> "Nicholas D. Richards" <nicholas@salmiron.com> wrote:
>>
>>> By and large predators treated donkeys as bad tempered and extremely
>>> dangerous
>>
>> Not unreasonable, they're clever, can deliver a terrible kick and
>> make a mind numbing amount of noise.
>>
>But should you use donkeys to guard your flock of geese, or...
>
Possibly. Geese do make an awful lot of noise and can be territorial. I
have been chased by geese a couple of times, the first time, aged five
by my prunts own Christmas dinner. Mother thought it very funny, because
following along behind, clucking away, was their foster mother, a Rhode
Island Red.

Ultimately geese aggression is more show than reality; nothing could
force me to face up to an angry donkey, it is armed back, front and to
the side.
--
0sterc@tcher -

"Où sont les neiges d'antan?"

In article <t24f7o$t4s$1@dont-email.me>, RustyHinge <rusty.hinge@foobar.
girolle.co.uk> on Thu, 31 Mar 2022 at 15:52:38 awoke Nicholas from his
slumbers and wrote
>On 31/03/2022 15:03, Nicholas D. Richards wrote:
>> In article <slrnt49ivj.9cp.maus@dmaus.org>, maus <maus@dmaus.org> on
>> Wed, 30 Mar 2022 at 21:30:27 awoke Nicholas from his slumbers and wrote
>>> On 2022-03-30, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I thought you sought a suitable hill top - from which you could see all
>>>> the various forces on the battlefield, and direct your troops hither and
>>>> yon to achieve the best result.
>>>
>>> Not since sniper rifles became common.
>>
>> At least two centuries then. Wellington was using riflemen as
>> skirmishers, intelligence gatherers and snipers in the Peninsular War.
>> They specialised in knocking over French Officers when they (the French)
>> least expected it.
>
>And because some of them used grown-up air-rifles which were quieter
>than those hfvat gnupowder, as well as not leaving tell-tale cloud of
>smoke to betray the sniper's position, he announce that anyone caught
>with such a weapon would be executed.
>
Who he? Wellington? When?

Made me think of the PIAT spigot anti-tank mortar. While it had its
disadvantages, it was pretty quiet, left no tell tale smoke trail back
to the shooter and could be fired from an enclosed space under cover.
Try that with a bazooka or Panzerfaust.
--
0sterc@tcher -

"Où sont les neiges d'antan?"

On 31/03/2022 20:36, Nicholas D. Richards wrote:
> In article <8mga4hp8qf4e9p21i89euefjc4osu2qdbn@4ax.com>, Thomas Prufer
> <prufer.public@mnet-online.de.invalid> on Thu, 31 Mar 2022 at 07:57:52
> awoke Nicholas from his slumbers and wrote
>> On Wed, 30 Mar 2022 13:44:43 +0100, "Nicholas D. Richards"
>> <nicholas@salmiron.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Some Russian generals appear to have been leading from the front <cough>
>>> which is not the best place to lead from in the case of modern war.
>>
>> And the bullet hole might be in the back, too...
>>
> How often did that happen? (Deliberately shooting your own senior
> officer in the back)

There is a strong rumour in our family that our sexually abusive,
violent, bullying, manipulative, and deffo bonkers father did just that
in Norway to get out of a suicidal patrol behind enemy lines.

He then literally shot himself in the foot to get out of Norway.

Fortunately, not 'like father like sons'. The buck stopped here.

Tone

Nicholas D. Richards said:
> In article <kSm1K.12061$F4h.4176@fx07.ams1>, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com>
> on Thu, 31 Mar 2022 at 19:59:28 awoke Nicholas from his slumbers and
> wrote
>>On 31-Mar-22 15:39, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>>> On Thu, 31 Mar 2022 15:07:46 +0100
>>> "Nicholas D. Richards" <nicholas@salmiron.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> By and large predators treated donkeys as bad tempered and extremely
>>>> dangerous
>>>
>>> Not unreasonable, they're clever, can deliver a terrible kick and
>>> make a mind numbing amount of noise.
>>>
>>But should you use donkeys to guard your flock of geese, or...
>>
> Possibly. Geese do make an awful lot of noise and can be territorial. I
> have been chased by geese a couple of times, the first time, aged five
> by my prunts own Christmas dinner. Mother thought it very funny, because
> following along behind, clucking away, was their foster mother, a Rhode
> Island Red.

I said 'BOO !' to one once. It didn't seem to make any difference.

> Ultimately geese aggression is more show than reality; nothing could
> force me to face up to an angry donkey, it is armed back, front and to
> the side.

--
Richard Robinson
"The whole plan hinged upon the natural curiosity of potatoes" - S. Lem

My email address is at http://qualmograph.org.uk/contact.html