On 28/03/2022 14:12, Mike Fleming wrote:
> I think that paying a bit more for food makes us slightly less "real
> victims" than people who are getting blown to bits. It never hurts to
> get a bit of perspective.

Unless the result is slowly starving to death, which is worse.

Tone

Ahem A Rivet's Shot said:
> On Sat, 26 Mar 2022 17:25:58 +0000
> Tone <tone@email.com> wrote:
>
>> For the last two afternoons I have been able to sit in our garden
>> enjoying the birds (feathered) feeding from our feeders, the buds
>> growing on the trees, the daffodumdillies dafodumdillying and the clear
>> blue skies.
>>
>> Yet in Ukraine families are being bombed out of their homes and
>> targetted when trying to escape by a mad dictator and his disillusioned
>> troups.
>>
>> I really can't reconcile those two aspects.
>
> We have become used to peace, apart from the middle east which is
> frequently every bit as horrific as the Ukraine right now but has been that
> way for so long that we've become numb to it.

The reporting differs, according to who's dropping the bombs.

Freovn.

> Reflect that the Woodstock festival and many others around the
> time were basically parties to protest the Vietnam war, which didn't stop
> folks from enjoying themselves despite knowing people who had been drafted
> and probably weren't coming back.
>
> If you want an encouraging thought - when we were children the idea
> of moving borders by force was *normal* now the attempt has brought
> condemnation from practically every country and support from nowhere. The
> pace is slow, there's a long way to go but the direction seems good.

Growing up in The Sixties, I was under that impression, that things were
getting less uncivilised. Having by now spent most of my life watching
so many people wanting to reverse that direction ... it's a mixed-up
muddled-up shook-up whirled.

--
Richard Robinson
"The whole plan hinged upon the natural curiosity of potatoes" - S. Lem

My email address is at http://qualmograph.org.uk/contact.html

Mike Fleming said:
> On 26/03/2022 18:04, hubops@ccanoemail.ca wrote:
>>
>> ... she was a bit of a bad-ass when she was younger :
>>
>> https://coat.ncf.ca/research/Chomiak-Freeland/freeland_1989_articles.htm
>
> Looks like that's a Canadian offshoot of Pravda. Perhaps they'd like
> Nigel Farage to jbex for them. In fact, we could do a two for the cevpr
> of one offer and throw in George Galloway too, and they can have Craig
> Murray free, gratis, and for nothing.

Aw, can't we keep Mr. Murray ? He can be good value.

[old] "Gnxr gur Cevzr Zvavfgre ... cyrnfr ?"

--
Richard Robinson
"The whole plan hinged upon the natural curiosity of potatoes" - S. Lem

My email address is at http://qualmograph.org.uk/contact.html

On Mon, 28 Mar 2022 18:18:15 -0500, Richard Robinson
<richardR@privacy.net> wrote:

>Mike Fleming said:
>> On 26/03/2022 18:04, hubops@ccanoemail.ca wrote:
>>>
>>> ... she was a bit of a bad-ass when she was younger :
>>>
>>> https://coat.ncf.ca/research/Chomiak-Freeland/freeland_1989_articles.htm
>>
>> Looks like that's a Canadian offshoot of Pravda. Perhaps they'd like
>> Nigel Farage to jbex for them. In fact, we could do a two for the cevpr
>> of one offer and throw in George Galloway too, and they can have Craig
>> Murray free, gratis, and for nothing.
>
>Aw, can't we keep Mr. Murray ? He can be good value.
>
>[old] "Gnxr gur Cevzr Zvavfgre ... cyrnfr ?"

I thought that Murray was exactly the sort of diplomat we needed:
someone who would speak out for what was right, regardless of the
personal consequences. What he exposed about Uzbekistan was, in my
opinion, exceptionally brave. But I find myself in agreement with Nick
Cohen who was writing in The Observer last weekend.
<https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/mar/26/collaboration-built-on-everyday-vanity-ambition-look-at-rts-wannabes>

(Fifth, fourth and third paragraphs from the end.)

Nick

On Mon, 28 Mar 2022 18:14:13 -0500
Richard Robinson <richardR@privacy.net> wrote:

> Growing up in The Sixties, I was under that impression, that things were
> getting less uncivilised. Having by now spent most of my life watching

They were and they are - but it's very very slow going. It would be
very hard to get Germany, France and England scrapping again for example.
A few generations and it will seem as unlikely as York and Lancaster getting
all bloody again.

> so many people wanting to reverse that direction ... it's a mixed-up
> muddled-up shook-up whirled.

Three steps forward, two backwards and occasionally four backwards.
Slowly haltingly slipping progress is made. War is a bad habit the human
race is addicted to and is in the early stages of trying to kick the habit,
that's always hard going.

I tend to think that those who despair of the human race making
progress because of the horrors they see around them are simply looking at
it on the wrong timescale. To see *any* visible improvement within a
lifetime means that things are changing *very* fast in historical terms.

When I step back and contemplate longer scales the general
direction we're taking looks good to me "us" keeps getting bigger as bits
of "them" become obviously the same as "us". The tension between distrust
of strangers and the benefits of cooperation always seems to resolve in
favour of cooperation *eventually* no matter how much blood gets spilled
over the distrust.

When I look at right now (being most of my life) I breathe sighs of
relief as we dodge bullet after bullet and don't quite get round to wiping
ourselves out. As a child, adolescent and young adult I expected us to lose
this game, in 1980 I would not have taken odds on seeing 2000. Since 1990 I
have been increasingly optimistic about our long term future.

The current horror in the Ukraine feels like it might become another
nail in the coffin of war - no matter how it comes out the cost to Russia
will be far greater than any possible gain. It probably already has been.

if the Ukrainians turn out to be the people who teach the Russians
that war is bad idea then we should celebrate them throughout the rest of
history. That's the only outcome I would call a win, sadly I suspect
they'll only manage to emphasise the point - but we can hope.

Time was we accepted the cold war as the price of preventing an
unstoppable wave of Soviet Union tanks sweeping across the whole of Europe.
That the remnants of that force now fails to sweep across a tiny fraction of
Europe is good - that they tried is TERRIBLE.

My only real fear is that they will be even more stupid and lash
out with nukes before they give up. I really really hope that doesn't
happen and I don't think it will because I'm pretty sure Russia can't
credibly threaten MAD, but if it does then climate issues and trying
to feed ten billion will seem like problems we'd really like to have.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/

On 2022-03-29, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> On Mon, 28 Mar 2022 18:14:13 -0500
> Richard Robinson <richardR@privacy.net> wrote:
>
>> Growing up in The Sixties, I was under that impression, that things were
>> getting less uncivilised. Having by now spent most of my life watching
>
> They were and they are - but it's very very slow going. It would be
> very hard to get Germany, France and England scrapping again for example.
> A few generations and it will seem as unlikely as York and Lancaster getting
> all bloody again.

What about the disputes between France and UK about fishing rights?
There was a story recently about the UK and France buying a used US
aircraft carrier between them. The prospect then was that if War started
between UK and France, each side would have the carrier for a week to
bomb the otherside and visa versa. Catch 22, right?.

The only possible real reason for the UK to leave the EU is to allow the
UK to declare war on a EU country, Right?.

>
>> so many people wanting to reverse that direction ... it's a mixed-up
>> muddled-up shook-up whirled.
>
> Three steps forward, two backwards and occasionally four backwards.
> Slowly haltingly slipping progress is made. War is a bad habit the human
> race is addicted to and is in the early stages of trying to kick the habit,
> that's always hard going.
>
> I tend to think that those who despair of the human race making
> progress because of the horrors they see around them are simply looking at
> it on the wrong timescale. To see *any* visible improvement within a
> lifetime means that things are changing *very* fast in historical terms.
>
>
I have looked down into roadworks in Berlin. Brick rubble all the way
down.

> My only real fear is that they will be even more stupid and lash
> out with nukes before they give up. I really really hope that doesn't
> happen and I don't think it will because I'm pretty sure Russia can't
> credibly threaten MAD, but if it does then climate issues and trying
> to feed ten billion will seem like problems we'd really like to have.
>

The war in Ukraine is irrelevant. We would be in trouble anyway if the
climate change people had their way.

--
greymausg@mail.com
That's not a mousehole!

On 29 Mar 2022 09:33:54 GMT
maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote:

> On 2022-03-29, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> > On Mon, 28 Mar 2022 18:14:13 -0500
> > Richard Robinson <richardR@privacy.net> wrote:
> >
> >> Growing up in The Sixties, I was under that impression, that things
> >> were getting less uncivilised. Having by now spent most of my life
> >> watching
> >
> > They were and they are - but it's very very slow going. It
> > would be very hard to get Germany, France and England scrapping again
> > for example. A few generations and it will seem as unlikely as York and
> > Lancaster getting all bloody again.
>
> What about the disputes between France and UK about fishing rights?

Oh they'll never stop bickering.

> There was a story recently about the UK and France buying a used US
> aircraft carrier between them. The prospect then was that if War started
> between UK and France, each side would have the carrier for a week to
> bomb the otherside and visa versa. Catch 22, right?.

That's before you think about that big HVDC power cable coupling
the nuclear reactors in France to the UK power grid or the chunnel and the
vast amount of traffic it carries. Then there's the issue of disruption to
traffic in the channel which would be mightily unpopular the world around.

> The only possible real reason for the UK to leave the EU is to allow the
> UK to declare war on a EU country, Right?.

It reduces the barriers from Himalayan to merely Alpine.

> I have looked down into roadworks in Berlin. Brick rubble all the way
> down.

Yep - are you expecting any more layers ? I'm not.

> > My only real fear is that they will be even more stupid and lash
> > out with nukes before they give up. I really really hope that doesn't
> > happen and I don't think it will because I'm pretty sure Russia can't
> > credibly threaten MAD, but if it does then climate issues and trying
> > to feed ten billion will seem like problems we'd really like to have.
> >
>
> The war in Ukraine is irrelevant. We would be in trouble anyway if the
> climate change people had their way.

If it goes nuclear climate change and overpopulation will seem like
minor inconveniences by comparison.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/

Nick Odell said:
> On Mon, 28 Mar 2022 18:18:15 -0500, Richard Robinson
><richardR@privacy.net> wrote:
>
>>Mike Fleming said:
>>> On 26/03/2022 18:04, hubops@ccanoemail.ca wrote:
>>>>
>>>> ... she was a bit of a bad-ass when she was younger :
>>>>
>>>> https://coat.ncf.ca/research/Chomiak-Freeland/freeland_1989_articles.htm
>>>
>>> Looks like that's a Canadian offshoot of Pravda. Perhaps they'd like
>>> Nigel Farage to jbex for them. In fact, we could do a two for the cevpr
>>> of one offer and throw in George Galloway too, and they can have Craig
>>> Murray free, gratis, and for nothing.
>>
>>Aw, can't we keep Mr. Murray ? He can be good value.
>>
>>[old] "Gnxr gur Cevzr Zvavfgre ... cyrnfr ?"
>
> I thought that Murray was exactly the sort of diplomat we needed:
> someone who would speak out for what was right, regardless of the
> personal consequences. What he exposed about Uzbekistan was, in my
> opinion, exceptionally brave.

"Murder in Samarkand" is a good read. Quite apart from the story, I'd
never seen anything like such a good description of what an ambassador
actually does (or can do, if so inclined).

> opinion, exceptionally brave. But I find myself in agreement with Nick
> Cohen who was writing in The Observer last weekend.
><https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/mar/26/collaboration-built-on-everyday-vanity-ambition-look-at-rts-wannabes>
>
> (Fifth, fourth and third paragraphs from the end.)

Much assertion, very little evidence or reasoning. And good grief, have
you read the N.S. article it links to ? People pick holes in an official
story, therefore Gur Cebgbpbyf Bs Mvba, because Lefties.

Murray can sometimes be (arguably) wrong or silly, he can occasionally make
himself look like a twat. Also, knowing how The System works, he can
occasionally be right in ways no-one else would spot. I don't think
Russia would want him.

--
Richard Robinson
"The whole plan hinged upon the natural curiosity of potatoes" - S. Lem

My email address is at http://qualmograph.org.uk/contact.html

On 29/03/2022 11:38, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> On 29 Mar 2022 09:33:54 GMT
> maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote:
>

>> I have looked down into roadworks in Berlin. Brick rubble all the way
>> down.
>
> Yep - are you expecting any more layers ? I'm not.
>
I expect the next layer to be radioactive glass. Hopefully not until
long after I am no longer in a state to be worried by it.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

In article <20220329082720.8d01dd7573ac955519e3e5cd@eircom.net>, Ahem A
Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> on Tue, 29 Mar 2022 at 08:27:20 awoke
Nicholas from his slumbers and wrote
>On Mon, 28 Mar 2022 18:14:13 -0500
>Richard Robinson <richardR@privacy.net> wrote:
>
>> Growing up in The Sixties, I was under that impression, that things were
>> getting less uncivilised. Having by now spent most of my life watching
>
> They were and they are - but it's very very slow going. It would be
>very hard to get Germany, France and England scrapping again for example.
>A few generations and it will seem as unlikely as York and Lancaster getting
>all bloody again.
>
Unlikely, due to a simple expedient adopted by Henry VII and completed
by Henry VIII. They simply separated the heads from the bodies of any
possible Yorkist contenders and a few others who might have had a power
of independent thought. This included the 67 year old Countess of
Salisbury who was rather brutally hacked to death.

By the time Elizabeth I came to the throne there were no royal dukedoms
and only one non-royal dukedom (Norfolk) left extant. Norfolk caight
plotting went the way of the rest.

Are you recommending a similar method of ending conflict?
--
0sterc@tcher -

"Où sont les neiges d'antan?"

On 2022-03-29, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> On 29 Mar 2022 09:33:54 GMT
> maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote:
>
>> On 2022-03-29, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>
>> The only possible real reason for the UK to leave the EU is to allow the
>> UK to declare war on a EU country, Right?.
>
> It reduces the barriers from Himalayan to merely Alpine.
>
>> I have looked down into roadworks in Berlin. Brick rubble all the way
>> down.
>
> Yep - are you expecting any more layers ? I'm not.
>
>

How many layers are under Troy?. I think the Germans have enough of
attacking Russia for a couple of more generation, at least.

> > My only real fear is that they will be even more stupid and lash
>> > out with nukes before they give up. I really really hope that doesn't
>> > happen and I don't think it will because I'm pretty sure Russia can't
>> > credibly threaten MAD, but if it does then climate issues and trying
>> > to feed ten billion will seem like problems we'd really like to have.
>> >
>>
>> The war in Ukraine is irrelevant. We would be in trouble anyway if the
>> climate change people had their way.
>
> If it goes nuclear climate change and overpopulation will seem like
> minor inconveniences by comparison.
>

--
greymausg@mail.com
That's not a mousehole!

On Tue, 29 Mar 2022 15:13:35 +0100
"Nicholas D. Richards" <nicholas@salmiron.com> wrote:

> Unlikely, due to a simple expedient adopted by Henry VII and completed
> by Henry VIII. They simply separated the heads from the bodies of any
> possible Yorkist contenders and a few others who might have had a power
> of independent thought. This included the 67 year old Countess of
> Salisbury who was rather brutally hacked to death.
>
> By the time Elizabeth I came to the throne there were no royal dukedoms
> and only one non-royal dukedom (Norfolk) left extant. Norfolk caight
> plotting went the way of the rest.
>
> Are you recommending a similar method of ending conflict?

Well now perhaps if the requirement for declaring war was that the
declarer must lose their head it might go a long way to curtailing the
practice.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/

Ahem A Rivet's Shot said:
> On 29 Mar 2022 09:33:54 GMT
> maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote:
>
>> I have looked down into roadworks in Berlin. Brick rubble all the way
>> down.
>
> Yep - are you expecting any more layers ? I'm not.

Down ? As many as you care to keep on digging, shirley ? The last one
proverbially being "Australia".

(A look at a globe contradicts this, but what do I care ?)

And I'm reminded of a book I read - European explorers discovering
central Asia, 100-ish years ago. They discovered a desert, and in that
desert there were some hideyplaces, and in those hideyplaces there were
some ancient manuscripts. So they reckoned that, the locals in those days
being horse-people who didn't have a lot of time for the 2 Rs, the thing
to do was to retrieve them for the benefit of scholars and civilisation
and suchlike joys. So they carted them off and stuck them in a museum,
somewhere around 1930.

Somewhere in the layers of Berlin rubble, there are ashes.

--
Richard Robinson
"The whole plan hinged upon the natural curiosity of potatoes" - S. Lem

My email address is at http://qualmograph.org.uk/contact.html

Nicholas D. Richards said:
> In article <20220329082720.8d01dd7573ac955519e3e5cd@eircom.net>, Ahem A
> Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> on Tue, 29 Mar 2022 at 08:27:20 awoke
> Nicholas from his slumbers and wrote
>>On Mon, 28 Mar 2022 18:14:13 -0500
>>Richard Robinson <richardR@privacy.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Growing up in The Sixties, I was under that impression, that things were
>>> getting less uncivilised. Having by now spent most of my life watching
>>
>> They were and they are - but it's very very slow going. It would be
>>very hard to get Germany, France and England scrapping again for example.
>>A few generations and it will seem as unlikely as York and Lancaster getting
>>all bloody again.
>>
> Unlikely, due to a simple expedient adopted by Henry VII and completed
> by Henry VIII. They simply separated the heads from the bodies of any
> possible Yorkist contenders and a few others who might have had a power
> of independent thought. This included the 67 year old Countess of
> Salisbury who was rather brutally hacked to death.
>
> By the time Elizabeth I came to the throne there were no royal dukedoms
> and only one non-royal dukedom (Norfolk) left extant. Norfolk caight
> plotting went the way of the rest.
>
> Are you recommending a similar method of ending conflict?

It worked for Cromwell's lot. (Oliver)

Pity they couldn't work out how to run the peace, though.

--
Richard Robinson
"The whole plan hinged upon the natural curiosity of potatoes" - S. Lem

My email address is at http://qualmograph.org.uk/contact.html

Ahem A Rivet's Shot said:
> On Tue, 29 Mar 2022 15:13:35 +0100
> "Nicholas D. Richards" <nicholas@salmiron.com> wrote:
>
>> Unlikely, due to a simple expedient adopted by Henry VII and completed
>> by Henry VIII. They simply separated the heads from the bodies of any
>> possible Yorkist contenders and a few others who might have had a power
>> of independent thought. This included the 67 year old Countess of
>> Salisbury who was rather brutally hacked to death.
>>
>> By the time Elizabeth I came to the throne there were no royal dukedoms
>> and only one non-royal dukedom (Norfolk) left extant. Norfolk caight
>> plotting went the way of the rest.
>>
>> Are you recommending a similar method of ending conflict?
>
> Well now perhaps if the requirement for declaring war was that the
> declarer must lose their head it might go a long way to curtailing the
> practice.

Put 'em up front when the shooting starts. They used to, didn't they ?

Less drastic was an early-80s piece in New Scientist: "Psychiatrists For
Peace". All national leaders with access to a Big Red Button has a
psychiatrist keeping an eye on them, so that if they show any signs of
pushing it they get sectioned as self-evidently MAD.

It never got taken seriously, though ...

--
Richard Robinson
"The whole plan hinged upon the natural curiosity of potatoes" - S. Lem

My email address is at http://qualmograph.org.uk/contact.html

On 2022-03-29, Richard Robinson <richardR@privacy.net> wrote:
> Ahem A Rivet's Shot said:
>> On Tue, 29 Mar 2022 15:13:35 +0100
>> "Nicholas D. Richards" <nicholas@salmiron.com> wrote:
>>
>> practice.
>
> Put 'em up front when the shooting starts. They used to, didn't they ?
>
> Less drastic was an early-80s piece in New Scientist: "Psychiatrists For
> Peace". All national leaders with access to a Big Red Button has a
> psychiatrist keeping an eye on them, so that if they show any signs of
> pushing it they get sectioned as self-evidently MAD.

I don't think they section people any more, or at least I hope not :)
>
> It never got taken seriously, though ...
>
>

From my experience of Psychiatrists, they would be spouting gooblydegook
so long that the button pusher would have pushed the button long since
through boredom, There was a program called `Eliza' on A computer I had
one time.

--
greymausg@mail.com
That's not a mousehole!

On 2022-03-29, Richard Robinson <richardR@privacy.net> wrote:
> Ahem A Rivet's Shot said:
>> On 29 Mar 2022 09:33:54 GMT
>> maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote:
>>
>>> I have looked down into roadworks in Berlin. Brick rubble all the way
>>> down.
>>
> central Asia, 100-ish years ago. They discovered a desert, and in that
> desert there were some hideyplaces, and in those hideyplaces there were
> some ancient manuscripts. So they reckoned that, the locals in those days
> being horse-people who didn't have a lot of time for the 2 Rs, the thing
> to do was to retrieve them for the benefit of scholars and civilisation
> and suchlike joys. So they carted them off and stuck them in a museum,
> somewhere around 1930.
>
> Somewhere in the layers of Berlin rubble, there are ashes.
>

Among the Nazi's craziness, they had even madder (including that the
Earth is hollow, and there is an entrance/exit in the Arctic), they did a
lot of research on the spread of languages, which they equated, I hope
wrongly, with ethnic groups. You mean the Humboldt Museum?.. What about
the Elgin Marbles?.

When the US and allies invaded Afganistan, there was a name mentioned,
a very Ancient City called Balkh, where the founder of modern religions
lived. The Yanks probably bomber the s*** out of it.

--
greymausg@mail.com
That's not a mousehole!

On Tue, 29 Mar 2022 13:26:16 -0500
Richard Robinson <richardR@privacy.net> wrote:

> Ahem A Rivet's Shot said:

> > Well now perhaps if the requirement for declaring war was that
> > the declarer must lose their head it might go a long way to curtailing
> > the practice.
>
> Put 'em up front when the shooting starts. They used to, didn't they ?

Yep it certainly used to be the case that if you wanted people to
charge into battle for you then you had to be in front and when you went
down they went home. There seems to be a lot to be said for it, but I note
that in those days they *did* go out in front quite a lot so it's probably
not the deterrent I'd like to hope it was.

> Less drastic was an early-80s piece in New Scientist: "Psychiatrists For
> Peace". All national leaders with access to a Big Red Button has a
> psychiatrist keeping an eye on them, so that if they show any signs of
> pushing it they get sectioned as self-evidently MAD.

Simpler, just wire the BRB to their pacemaker (give them one even
if they don't need it) and let them know that they will be the first
victim and their courage will be honoured - don't tell them that they'll be
the *only* victim and don't tell anyone else how they died.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/

On 29 Mar 2022 19:11:52 GMT, maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote:

>On 2022-03-29, Richard Robinson <richardR@privacy.net> wrote:
>> Ahem A Rivet's Shot said:
>>> On 29 Mar 2022 09:33:54 GMT
>>> maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I have looked down into roadworks in Berlin. Brick rubble all the way
>>>> down.
>>>
>> central Asia, 100-ish years ago. They discovered a desert, and in that
>> desert there were some hideyplaces, and in those hideyplaces there were
>> some ancient manuscripts. So they reckoned that, the locals in those days
>> being horse-people who didn't have a lot of time for the 2 Rs, the thing
>> to do was to retrieve them for the benefit of scholars and civilisation
>> and suchlike joys. So they carted them off and stuck them in a museum,
>> somewhere around 1930.
>>
>> Somewhere in the layers of Berlin rubble, there are ashes.
>>
>
>Among the Nazi's craziness, they had even madder (including that the
>Earth is hollow, and there is an entrance/exit in the Arctic), they did a
>lot of research on the spread of languages, which they equated, I hope
>wrongly, with ethnic groups. You mean the Humboldt Museum?.. What about
>the Elgin Marbles?.
>
>When the US and allies invaded Afganistan, there was a name mentioned,
>a very Ancient City called Balkh, where the founder of modern religions
>lived. The Yanks probably bomber the s*** out of it.

Q-Anon as a cult started a very short time ago. The craziness that
Q-Anon sprang up from has been around for a very long time indeed.

Nick

On Tue, 29 Mar 2022 13:26:16 -0500, Richard Robinson
<richardR@privacy.net> wrote:

>Ahem A Rivet's Shot said:
>> On Tue, 29 Mar 2022 15:13:35 +0100
>> "Nicholas D. Richards" <nicholas@salmiron.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Unlikely, due to a simple expedient adopted by Henry VII and completed
>>> by Henry VIII. They simply separated the heads from the bodies of any
>>> possible Yorkist contenders and a few others who might have had a power
>>> of independent thought. This included the 67 year old Countess of
>>> Salisbury who was rather brutally hacked to death.
>>>
>>> By the time Elizabeth I came to the throne there were no royal dukedoms
>>> and only one non-royal dukedom (Norfolk) left extant. Norfolk caight
>>> plotting went the way of the rest.
>>>
>>> Are you recommending a similar method of ending conflict?
>>
>> Well now perhaps if the requirement for declaring war was that the
>> declarer must lose their head it might go a long way to curtailing the
>> practice.
>
>Put 'em up front when the shooting starts. They used to, didn't they ?
>
>Less drastic was an early-80s piece in New Scientist: "Psychiatrists For
>Peace". All national leaders with access to a Big Red Button has a
>psychiatrist keeping an eye on them, so that if they show any signs of
>pushing it they get sectioned as self-evidently MAD.
>
>It never got taken seriously, though ...

Shades of the fully automated airliner with just a man and a dog in
the cockpit....

Nick

On 29-Mar-22 19:26, Richard Robinson wrote:

> Less drastic was an early-80s piece in New Scientist: "Psychiatrists For
> Peace". All national leaders with access to a Big Red Button has a
> psychiatrist keeping an eye on them, so that if they show any signs of
> pushing it they get sectioned as self-evidently MAD.
>
> It never got taken seriously, though ...

Good. Is there much evidence that the people who go into the
psychiatric profession are themselves stable and sane?

--
Sam Plusnet

On Tue, 29 Mar 2022 21:50:09 +0100, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:

>On 29-Mar-22 19:26, Richard Robinson wrote:
>
>> Less drastic was an early-80s piece in New Scientist: "Psychiatrists For
>> Peace". All national leaders with access to a Big Red Button has a
>> psychiatrist keeping an eye on them, so that if they show any signs of
>> pushing it they get sectioned as self-evidently MAD.
>>
>> It never got taken seriously, though ...
>
>Good. Is there much evidence that the people who go into the
>psychiatric profession are themselves stable and sane?

Quis psychiatriet ipsos psychiatres sort of thing?

Nick

Nick Odell said:
> On Tue, 29 Mar 2022 13:26:16 -0500, Richard Robinson
><richardR@privacy.net> wrote:
>
>>Put 'em up front when the shooting starts. They used to, didn't they ?
>>
>>Less drastic was an early-80s piece in New Scientist: "Psychiatrists For
>>Peace". All national leaders with access to a Big Red Button has a
>>psychiatrist keeping an eye on them, so that if they show any signs of
>>pushing it they get sectioned as self-evidently MAD.
>>
>>It never got taken seriously, though ...
>
> Shades of the fully automated airliner with just a man and a dog in
> the cockpit....

Ooh, yeah. Thinking-brain dogs for all cabinet members, bite 'em if they
show signs of doing anything.

--
Richard Robinson
"The whole plan hinged upon the natural curiosity of potatoes" - S. Lem

My email address is at http://qualmograph.org.uk/contact.html

Nick Odell said:
> On Tue, 29 Mar 2022 21:50:09 +0100, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
>
>>On 29-Mar-22 19:26, Richard Robinson wrote:
>>
>>> Less drastic was an early-80s piece in New Scientist: "Psychiatrists For
>>> Peace". All national leaders with access to a Big Red Button has a
>>> psychiatrist keeping an eye on them, so that if they show any signs of
>>> pushing it they get sectioned as self-evidently MAD.
>>>
>>> It never got taken seriously, though ...
>>
>>Good. Is there much evidence that the people who go into the
>>psychiatric profession are themselves stable and sane?
>
> Quis psychiatriet ipsos psychiatres sort of thing?

Who would look for such evidence, and evaluate it ?

--
Richard Robinson
"The whole plan hinged upon the natural curiosity of potatoes" - S. Lem

My email address is at http://qualmograph.org.uk/contact.html

maus said:
>
> There was a program called `Eliza' on A computer I had
> one time.

On one of mine, there was Racter. "You've heard of Artificial
Intelligence ? This is Artificial Stupidity".

--
Richard Robinson
"The whole plan hinged upon the natural curiosity of potatoes" - S. Lem

My email address is at http://qualmograph.org.uk/contact.html