charles <charles@candehope.me.uk> wrote:
> and, of course, the idea that you only heat your home to 60°F prevents
> Working from Home, since a Workplace needs to be heated to 65° as a minimum.

I think you are free to work at whatever temperature you like, but the
recommended legal minimums are for your employees. In other words nobody
else can force you to work at a too-cold temperature, but if you choose to
work at that temperature in your own house with no other employees there,
there is nothing to stop you.

If your employer has control of your home thermostat then that's a different
matter.

The law actually says:

"Regulation 7 Temperature in indoor workplaces
(1) During working hours, the temperature in all workplaces inside buildings
shall be reasonable.
(1A) Without prejudice to the generality of paragraph (1) –
(a) a workplace shall be adequately thermally insulated where it is necessary,
having regard to the type of work carried out and the physical activity of
the persons carrying out the work; and
(b) excessive effects of sunlight on temperature shall be avoided"
https://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/priced/l24.pdf

and 'reasonable' is not codified in law (although the guidance mentions
16C). Feel free to open an employment tribunal against yourself if you
like.

Theo

On 26/01/2023 21:36, alan_m wrote:
> On 26/01/2023 21:22, charles wrote:
>
>
>> and, of course, the idea that you only heat your home to 60°F prevents
>> Working from Home, since a Workplace needs to be heated to 65° as a
>> minimum.
>>
>
> It may be that a "factory" needs to be heated to a certain temperature
> but a work place does not.
>

https://www.gov.uk/workplace-temperatures

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On Fri, 27 Jan 2023 08:22:15 +1100, charles <charles@candehope.me.uk>
wrote:

> In article <k3g83jFf95eU2@mid.individual.net>,
> alan_m <junk@admac.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 26/01/2023 17:07, Max Demian wrote:
>> > On 26/01/2023 12:11, R D S wrote:
>> >> On 25/01/2023 17:54, alan_m wrote:
>> >
>> >>> When this all stated I did post about the misinformation put out on
>> a
>> >>> BBC early morning TV show where the journalist claimed that you had
>> >>> to switch off everything during the qualifying period.
>> >
>> >> Yeah, I was talking to a guy the other day who turned everything off
>> >> including his radio!
>> >
>> > There are people using candles instead of electric light. Must be a
>> lot
>> > dearer.
>
>> So much power/money saving bull shit advice around! Even the one fits
>> all advice of reducing your boiler flow temperature to 60C may not
>> achieve a cost saving if your radiators are not oversized but your
>> boiler is.
>
> and, of course, the idea that you only heat your home to 60°F prevents
> Working from Home, since a Workplace needs to be heated to 65° as a
> minimum.

Thats bullshit with cool stores, work outside and with the construction
industry etc.

On Fri, 27 Jan 2023 08:45:47 +1100, Theo
<theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:

> charles <charles@candehope.me.uk> wrote:
>> and, of course, the idea that you only heat your home to 60°F prevents
>> Working from Home, since a Workplace needs to be heated to 65° as a
>> minimum.
>
> I think you are free to work at whatever temperature you like, but the
> recommended legal minimums are for your employees. In other words nobody
> else can force you to work at a too-cold temperature,

Yes they can, most obviously with cool stores.

> but if you choose to
> work at that temperature in your own house with no other employees there,
> there is nothing to stop you.

Even if some other employee chooses to work at your place.

And it doesnt apply to those you employ in your home
with cleaners, baby sitters, carers etc etc etc either.

> If your employer has control of your home thermostat then that's a
> different
> matter.
>
> The law actually says:
>
> "Regulation 7 Temperature in indoor workplaces
> (1) During working hours, the temperature in all workplaces inside
> buildings
> shall be reasonable.
> (1A) Without prejudice to the generality of paragraph (1) –
> (a) a workplace shall be adequately thermally insulated where it is
> necessary,
> having regard to the type of work carried out and the physical activity
> of
> the persons carrying out the work; and
> (b) excessive effects of sunlight on temperature shall be avoided"
> https://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/priced/l24.pdf
>
> and 'reasonable' is not codified in law (although the guidance mentions
> 16C). Feel free to open an employment tribunal against yourself if you
> like.

And clearly doesnt apply to workmen on a building site like Adam etc.

On Thu, 26 Jan 2023 21:36:55 +0000, alan_m <junk@admac.myzen.co.uk> wrote:

>On 26/01/2023 21:22, charles wrote:
>
>
>> and, of course, the idea that you only heat your home to 60°F prevents
>> Working from Home, since a Workplace needs to be heated to 65° as a minimum.
>>
>
>It may be that a "factory" needs to be heated to a certain temperature
>but a work place does not.

There must be exceptions for refrigerated workplaces: meat or fruit storage
places, frozen fish finger factories, ... ?

Thomas Prufer

Thomas Prufer <prufer.public@mnet-online.de.invalid> wrote:
> On Thu, 26 Jan 2023 21:36:55 +0000, alan_m <junk@admac.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >On 26/01/2023 21:22, charles wrote:
> >
> >
> >> and, of course, the idea that you only heat your home to 60°F prevents
> >> Working from Home, since a Workplace needs to be heated to 65° as a minimum.
> >>
> >
> >It may be that a "factory" needs to be heated to a certain temperature
> >but a work place does not.
>
> There must be exceptions for refrigerated workplaces: meat or fruit storage
> places, frozen fish finger factories, ... ?

The guidance (which is not itself law) says:

60 The temperature inside the workplace should provide reasonable
comfort without the need for special clothing. If reasonable comfort cannot
be achieved because of hot or cold processes, all reasonable steps should
be taken to achieve a temperature which is as close as possible to
comfortable.
61 The temperature in a workplace should normally be at least 16 degrees
Celsius. If work involves rigorous physical effort, the temperature should be at
least 13 degrees Celsius. However, these temperatures may not necessarily
provide reasonable comfort, depending on other factors such as air
movement, relative humidity and worker clothing. Temperature readings
should be taken close to workstations, at working height and away from
windows.
62 These temperature guidelines do not apply where it would be impractical
to maintain those temperatures, for example in rooms which have to be open
to the outside, or where food or other products have to be kept cold. In such
cases, the temperature should be as close to those mentioned in paragraph
61 as is practical
63 In rooms where food or other products/processes have to be kept at low
temperatures and it is impractical to comply with paragraph 61, the following
measures should be applied as appropriate:
■ enclosing or insulating the product;
■ pre-chilling the product;
■ keeping chilled areas as small as possible;
■ exposing the product to workroom temperatures as briefly as possible;
■ providing insulated duckboards or other floor coverings where workers
have to stand for long periods on cold floors, unless special footwear is
provided which prevents discomfort;
■ excluding draughts from workstations, eg by using baffles;
■ installing self-closing doors where such measures are practical and
would reduce discomfort.

https://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/priced/l24.pdf

On 27/01/2023 09:03, Thomas Prufer wrote:
> On Thu, 26 Jan 2023 21:36:55 +0000, alan_m <junk@admac.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 26/01/2023 21:22, charles wrote:
>>
>>
>>> and, of course, the idea that you only heat your home to 60°F prevents
>>> Working from Home, since a Workplace needs to be heated to 65° as a minimum.
>>>
>>
>> It may be that a "factory" needs to be heated to a certain temperature
>> but a work place does not.
>
> There must be exceptions for refrigerated workplaces: meat or fruit storage
> places, frozen fish finger factories, ... ?
>
> Thomas Prufer

Or basements full of computer kit. HOWEVER when I was able to show that
the 8086 ICE stopped working at, and was only rated for, 27°C ...we
finally got aircon...

--
"A point of view can be a dangerous luxury when substituted for insight
and understanding".

Marshall McLuhan

On Thu, 26 Jan 2023 21:02:43 +0000, alan_m <junk@admac.myzen.co.uk>
wrote:

>On 26/01/2023 17:07, Max Demian wrote:
>> On 26/01/2023 12:11, R D S wrote:
>>> On 25/01/2023 17:54, alan_m wrote:
>>
>>>> When this all stated I did post about the misinformation put out on a
>>>> BBC early morning TV show where the journalist claimed that you had
>>>> to switch off everything during the qualifying period.
>>
>>> Yeah, I was talking to a guy the other day who turned everything off
>>> including his radio!
>>
>> There are people using candles instead of electric light. Must be a lot
>> dearer.
>
>So much power/money saving bull shit advice around! Even the one fits
>all advice of reducing your boiler flow temperature to 60C may not
>achieve a cost saving if your radiators are not oversized but your
>boiler is.
>

That's my problem - the boiler won't modulate below 30% which even
during the cold snap is too much. If I turn the boiler temp down the
boiler just ends up short cycling.

I like the candles solution, very green. I suppose the rebate will
enable the consumers to buy even more.

--
AnthonyL

Why ever wait to finish a job before starting the next?

On 27/01/2023 12:17, AnthonyL wrote:

>>> On 26/01/2023 12:11, R D S wrote:

>>> There are people using candles instead of electric light. Must be a lot
>>> dearer.

> I like the candles solution, very green. I suppose the rebate will
> enable the consumers to buy even more.

Watch the Youtube videos about heating your own home with a single
candle and a flower pot. I think you may be able to get the house
temperature up to 20C - in Summer. A faster rise in temperature can be
achieved if you allow the candle to set fire to the furniture and curtains.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 26/01/2023 17:07, Max Demian wrote:
> On 26/01/2023 12:11, R D S wrote:
>> On 25/01/2023 17:54, alan_m wrote:
>
>>> When this all stated I did post about the misinformation put out on a
>>> BBC early morning TV show where the journalist claimed that you had
>>> to switch off everything during the qualifying period.
>
>> Yeah, I was talking to a guy the other day who turned everything off
>> including his radio!
>
> There are people using candles instead of electric light. Must be a lot
> dearer.

I know, the price of candles!
(My missus kept buying them so i've taken to making them, i've saved us
£100s over the last few years)

On 26/01/2023 21:22, charles wrote:
> In article <k3g83jFf95eU2@mid.individual.net>,
> alan_m <junk@admac.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 26/01/2023 17:07, Max Demian wrote:
>>> On 26/01/2023 12:11, R D S wrote:
>>>> On 25/01/2023 17:54, alan_m wrote:
>>>
>>>>> When this all stated I did post about the misinformation put out on a
>>>>> BBC early morning TV show where the journalist claimed that you had
>>>>> to switch off everything during the qualifying period.
>>>
>>>> Yeah, I was talking to a guy the other day who turned everything off
>>>> including his radio!
>>>
>>> There are people using candles instead of electric light. Must be a lot
>>> dearer.
>
>> So much power/money saving bull shit advice around! Even the one fits
>> all advice of reducing your boiler flow temperature to 60C may not
>> achieve a cost saving if your radiators are not oversized but your
>> boiler is.
>
> and, of course, the idea that you only heat your home to 60°F prevents
> Working from Home, since a Workplace needs to be heated to 65° as a minimum.

Water temperature 60°C, not 60°F for a room temperature of 18°C to 21°C,
to allow radiators to have enough heat difference to provide the power
needed without massive radiators.

On 27 Jan 2023 at 13:00:21 GMT, "R D S" <rsandr@yahoo.com> wrote:

> On 26/01/2023 17:07, Max Demian wrote:
>> On 26/01/2023 12:11, R D S wrote:
>>> On 25/01/2023 17:54, alan_m wrote:
>>
>>>> When this all stated I did post about the misinformation put out on a
>>>> BBC early morning TV show where the journalist claimed that you had
>>>> to switch off everything during the qualifying period.
>>
>>> Yeah, I was talking to a guy the other day who turned everything off
>>> including his radio!
>>
>> There are people using candles instead of electric light. Must be a lot
>> dearer.
>
> I know, the price of candles! (My missus kept buying them so i've taken
> to making them, i've saved us £100s over the last few years)

Out of what? Earwax?

--
When I saw how the European Union was developing, it was very obvious what they had in mind was not democratic. In Britain you vote for a government so the government has to listen to you, and if you don't like it you can change it.

Tony Benn

On 27/01/2023 13:00, R D S wrote:
> On 26/01/2023 17:07, Max Demian wrote:
>> On 26/01/2023 12:11, R D S wrote:
>>> On 25/01/2023 17:54, alan_m wrote:
>>
>>>> When this all stated I did post about the misinformation put out on
>>>> a BBC early morning TV show where the journalist claimed that you
>>>> had to switch off everything during the qualifying period.
>>
>>> Yeah, I was talking to a guy the other day who turned everything off
>>> including his radio!
>>
>> There are people using candles instead of electric light. Must be a
>> lot dearer.
>
> I know, the price of candles!
> (My missus kept buying them so i've taken to making them, i've saved us
> £100s over the last few years)

Are these fancy scented candles? I've still got most of a box of
"Tafelkerzen" bought in the 70s energy crisis. (Ask your grandpa about
the "three day week" - no it wasn't to increase leisure time.)

--
Max Demian

In article <k3d00eF4hdU1@mid.individual.net>, alan_m
<junk@admac.myzen.co.uk> writes
>On 25/01/2023 14:59, R D S wrote:
>> On 25/01/2023 14:28, alan_m wrote:
>>>
>>> You saved 0.057kWh, which earned you 104 OctoPoints – worth £0.13.
>>>
>> The Martin Lewis brainwashed would say it's better than nothing, but
>>it's no reward for sitting in the dark tor hours sipping from a flask!
>>
>
>Some idiots may do that - this household just puts off using the
>washing machine, kettle or electric oven for the published single hour
>for which payment is made for savings. Although the 19th Jan payment
>was 19p my average has been 60p for each hour with no real effort and
>without any hardship. The TV and central heating etc. were still on.
>
>I would agree it makes near zero difference to me financially and the
>whole scheme is more of a publicity exercise. It's a pity they are not
>making more of the point that they only have to do it when green energy
>is turned off due to the lack of wind - and a time when the weather is
>at it's coldest! But, hey, the solution is to build more windmills and
>decommission all gas and coal power stations in the next few years.
>
They were actually paying windmills not to supply power at the same
time. Problem is lack of infrastructure connecting wind farms to grid.
But then the government's Chief Energy advisor is apparently an
economist. Quoting from DT.
--
bert

On Mon, 23 Jan 2023 00:59:22 +0000, David wrote:

> Haven't seen anything about this recently, but it was a thing late
> November.
>
> I still don't know why Economy 7 (if this still exists) doesn't do the
> job already.
>

Now thinking this is just a ploy to introduce the idea of letting the
power network schedule smart home appliances via smart meters to fine tune
demand.

Still won't resolve the "kettle going on in the ad break for Corrie"
though.

Cheers

Dave R

--
Dell Latitude 7280 with Full HD and Thunderbolt (woo hoo)