Actually you ded not really need all of that top end gear to hear it sound
better than CD as I said earlier. Half tht problem these days is nobody
seems to be able to make a decent recording that is not compressed to hell
and back, so it might as well be on 45.
Brian

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"RustyHinge" <rusty.hinge@foobar.girolle.co.uk> wrote in message
news:t2ae9i$5un$1@dont-email.me...
> On 02/04/2022 20:36, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>> On Sat, 2 Apr 2022 19:39:16 +0100
>> RustyHinge <rusty.hinge@foobar.girolle.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> And now it's resurrected as a cult item <Kenneth Williams> "Cult, I
>>> said: cult!" </K. W.> and joie de connoisseur
>>
>> Yes, but the cevpr they're charging for new vinyl is just mad and
>> you can't get cartridges with gemstone cantilevers now - your wallet
>> would
>> be grateful if you never heard one as your ears wouldn't let you ohl
>> anything else afterwards - DAMHIK I'm just glad it was the purpleheart
>> and
>> not the lapis lazuli that caught me.
>
> Well, my pickup pbfg me into four figures in the last century, likewise
> the tone-arm with van den Hul silver wiring, so I know wocher mean, but
> then I was fryyvat the things, and needed the best.
>
> Look at www.girolle.co.uk and the pic of my product should appear at the
> top.
>
> --
> Rusty Hinge
> To err is human. To really foul things up requires a computer and the
> BOFH.

And who can forget the 8track cart format. Akai even made a recorder for
them, it hd two speeds, 3 and 3/4 and 7 in sec, of course the later was
ridiculous since it only gave a few minutes between tracks. I believe it was
originally designed for jingles for radio stations in the States.
Many trucks over here had one. Far too much to go wrong mechanically with
stepping heads, internal pressure rollers and that awful lubricated tape in
a huge loop being pulled out in the centre and wound back on the outside.
Yuck.

Of course there were, to be complete, also Elcassette, a bigger version of
the cassette, and much later DCCdigital compact cassette, which never caught
on but sounded good. Minidisc was the format for a while of course, but pre
recorded minidiscs never caught on here. They did have a lossy compression
in use and the recorders were not user friendly inheriting all the bad bits
from CDR recorders like having to finalise the disc to play it on another
machine. It needed somebody like Amstrad to make it simpler. I have a sony
one under my sideboard. Cannot see to use it any more but has three speeds,
reasonable, sounds like worn out cassette and crappy.
Brian

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"Nick Odell" <nick@themusicworkshop.plus.com> wrote in message
news:q8ah4hpot37l1q0ek3fc3qf5mh2jh7kthj@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 2 Apr 2022 17:41:54 +0100, John Williamson
> <johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
>>On 02/04/2022 10:44, RustyHinge wrote:
>>
>>> There was quite a range of formats: 7" singles at 45 rpm; 7" Extended
>>> Play at 45 rpm; 10" LP at 33? rpm; 10" at a slower speed (can't unforget
>>> the rpm) for speech; 12" LP at 33? rpm; 12" LP for speech at the slower
>>> speed (used by language teaching formats, mainly),
>>
>>16 2/3 rpm. Also used for "party mix" LPs. 90 minutes of music per disc,
>>handy for background music when nobody is paying much attention.
>>
>>I have also seen a few 7 discs recorded at 33 1/3 rpm.
>>
>>10 inches was a not-rare size for shellac 78 rpm discs, IIRC commoner
>>than 12 inches.
>>
>>and I've prolly
>>> missed-out some options. I expect the advent of decent reel-to-reel tape
>>> recorders had some adverse effect on the availability of all the vinyl
>>> formats too.
>>>
>>What started to kill vinyl was the Compact Cassette, and what finally
>>finished it off was CD and downloads.
>
> I still have a couple of 10" shellac 78s but only one 10" vinyl LP.
> It's BLP 1081
> I'm quite surprised to discover that if I type BLP 1081 into the
> search box this LP comes out right at the top of the list.
>
> Whenever I say something vague or obtuse in ye shedde and don't
> explain myself fully I always check to make sure I've said enough to
> be searchable but this comes in at No1, 2, - most of the first page,
> in fact.
>
> Nick

Yes there were alternatives to 78, but also there were Pathe Discs which
played from the centre outwards. These tended to have historic recordings on
them from the news or live events where a certain artist was recorded maybe
for one song.
I'm not going to mention cylinders where some were wax and some were what
looked like tin foil and some had different pitches some vertical some
horizontally cut. It was mayhem. The BBC showed me one converted to play via
an Ortofon Cartridge.
Now apparently some of them are so fragile they have to be played with a
laser.
Brian

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"BrainD" <brian13434@lycos.co.uk> wrote in message
news:mpro.r9ql7z00u2bqu05is.brian13434@lycos.co.uk...
> RustyHinge <rusty.hinge@foobar.girolle.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> There was quite a range of formats: 7" singles at 45 rpm; 7" Extended
>> Play
>> at 45 rpm; 10" LP at 33? rpm; 10" at a slower speed (can't unforget the
>> rpm) for speech; 12" LP at 33? rpm; 12" LP for speech at the slower speed
>> (used by language teaching formats, mainly), and I've prolly missed-out
>> some options. I expect the advent of decent reel-to-reel tape recorders
>> had some adverse effect on the availability of all the vinyl formats too.
>>
> I unforget my late Mother's record collection included sizes such as 8",
> 10"
> etc. at speeds of 78RPM and 80rpm. And possibly others. They played OK on
> my
> sister's Dansette.
>
> --
> Braind

I also remember the acetates you could record yourself, or indeed sometimes
they were glued to birthday or Christmas cards so you could play them. They
did not last long. There is one knocking about somewhere of Cilla Black
singing Fever, rather badly. It only plays so far then gets stuck!
Brian

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"Peter" <myshed@prune.org.uk> wrote in message
news:XnsAE6D6DB1657EAFactura3476@144.76.35.252...
> "Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)" <briang1@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in
> news:t28uep$bu9$1@dont-email.me:
>
>> I have seen very few of these, yet I'd have thought in the day, they
>> would be cheaper to make for all those selections which were quite
>> short, say under 40mins.
>
> 10" LPs vaguely tickle the back of my mind but I can't really remember
> why -
> I never owned one. SWMBO has no recollection at all.
>
> --
> Peter
> -----

Yes that is right. The live ones were better in my view, even though they
only had piano. I don't think the ones with bands on them were really very
good.
He is still alive I believe in his 90s.
Brian

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"Ahem A Rivet's Shot" <steveo@eircom.net> wrote in message
news:20220402122827.672458fc84cd707dfac12c4d@eircom.net...
> On Sat, 2 Apr 2022 08:36:51 +0100
> "Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)" <briang1@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> I have seen very few of these, yet I'd have thought in the day, they
>> would be cheaper to make for all those selections which were quite short,
>> say under 40mins.
>
> Some of Tom Lehrer's albums came out in 10" versions with just the
> songs and 12" versions with his introductory patter - I think all of the
> first three, I got the impression that the 10" ones were studio and the
> 12"
> were released later with live versions of the same songs.
>
> --
> Steve O'Hara-Smith
> Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/

Are they still around? They had that big hit with tub thumping as I recall,
the line pissing the night away raised some eyebrows at the Beeb at the
time, then there was that Les barker one four door four well drive fortress
or whatever it was called.
Brian

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"Tone" <email@address.com> wrote in message
news:t29cul$4ud$1@dont-email.me...
> On 02/04/2022 12:28, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>> On Sat, 2 Apr 2022 08:36:51 +0100
>> "Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)" <briang1@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> I have seen very few of these, yet I'd have thought in the day, they
>>> would be cheaper to make for all those selections which were quite
>>> short,
>>> say under 40mins.
>>
>> Some of Tom Lehrer's albums came out in 10" versions with just the
>> songs and 12" versions with his introductory patter - I think all of the
>> first three, I got the impression that the 10" ones were studio and the
>> 12"
>> were released later with live versions of the same songs.
>>
>
> The first cut of Chumbawamba's Engish Rebel Songs was on a 10 inch LP.
>
> It's fairly rare now. I still have my copy.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Rebel_Songs_1381%E2%80%931984
>
> They offered me the job of manager in 1988. I turned it down!
>
> Tone

Yes but laid down.
Brian

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"Ahem A Rivet's Shot" <steveo@eircom.net> wrote in message
news:20220403131820.5708cef861429c55b1698e48@eircom.net...
> On Sun, 3 Apr 2022 12:49:01 +0100
> "Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)" <briang1@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> PS sorry bout the typos, typingwith the keyboard on my stomach.
>
> You've turned into an interactive tellytubby ?
> </irresistible image>
>
> --
> Steve O'Hara-Smith
> Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/

On Sun, 3 Apr 2022 14:05:10 +0100, "Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)"
<briang1@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

>And who can forget the 8track cart format. Akai even made a recorder for
>them, it hd two speeds, 3 and 3/4 and 7 in sec, of course the later was
>ridiculous since it only gave a few minutes between tracks. I believe it was
>originally designed for jingles for radio stations in the States.
> Many trucks over here had one. Far too much to go wrong mechanically with
>stepping heads, internal pressure rollers and that awful lubricated tape in
>a huge loop being pulled out in the centre and wound back on the outside.
>Yuck.
>
>
>Of course there were, to be complete, also Elcassette, a bigger version of
>the cassette, and much later DCCdigital compact cassette, which never caught
>on but sounded good. Minidisc was the format for a while of course, but pre
>recorded minidiscs never caught on here. They did have a lossy compression
>in use and the recorders were not user friendly inheriting all the bad bits
>from CDR recorders like having to finalise the disc to play it on another
>machine. It needed somebody like Amstrad to make it simpler. I have a sony
>one under my sideboard. Cannot see to use it any more but has three speeds,
>reasonable, sounds like worn out cassette and crappy.

I missed out on 8-track (I think it was probably a lucky escape on my
part) but I still have my mini-disk recorder and kit. The only thing
that really annoyed me was the proprietary format which, in those days
at least, I found difficult to transcribe into anything else.

Nick

On Sat, 2 Apr 2022 12:44:27 +0100, Tone <email@address.com> wrote:

>On 02/04/2022 12:28, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>> On Sat, 2 Apr 2022 08:36:51 +0100
>> "Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)" <briang1@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> I have seen very few of these, yet I'd have thought in the day, they
>>> would be cheaper to make for all those selections which were quite short,
>>> say under 40mins.
>>
>> Some of Tom Lehrer's albums came out in 10" versions with just the
>> songs and 12" versions with his introductory patter - I think all of the
>> first three, I got the impression that the 10" ones were studio and the 12"
>> were released later with live versions of the same songs.
>>
>
>The first cut of Chumbawamba's Engish Rebel Songs was on a 10 inch LP.
>
>It's fairly rare now. I still have my copy.
>
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Rebel_Songs_1381%E2%80%931984
>
>They offered me the job of manager in 1988. I turned it down!
>
A friend of mine lived in an ex-Chumbawamba house in Leeds. There was
a lot of Chumbawamba-made built-in furniture which had been very
nicely done. When Chumbawambaring lost it's appeal I suppose that
particular Chum could have taken up carpentry but I don't see evidence
that any of them did.

Nick

"Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)" <briang1@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in
news:t2c4vc$luc$1@dont-email.me:

>
> Did anyone understand why the album Tusk had a dog on the front?
> No I don't think they did either.

IIRC "Tusk" was the name of their dog.

--
Peter
-----

"Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)" <briang1@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in news:t2c70t$v28$1
@dont-email.me:

> Yes but laid down.
> Brian
>

Why - are you poorly?

--
Peter
-----

On 03/04/2022 13:37, Nick Odell wrote:
> I missed out on 8-track (I think it was probably a lucky escape on my
> part)

MTAAW x 2.

> but I still have my mini-disk recorder and kit.

MTAAW yet again; and I still use it. I have 3 spare recorders and a
spare player TAAW. I was sad to see the format disappear from the
market; it was very convenient, and of quite sufficient quality for my ears.

--
Regards,
Andrew.

On Sun, 3 Apr 2022 14:16:32 +0100
"Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)" <briang1@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

> Yes that is right. The live ones were better in my view, even though they
> only had piano.

Piano and audience - sounded like a mostly college age audience on
most of them.

> I don't think the ones with bands on them were really very good.

I agree, the audience and the patter did far more for the songs
than the band ever could.

There is just one thing for the FOAK - does anyone know what the
suppressed line about "our kindly Father Brown" is in "My Home Town".

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/

On Sun, 3 Apr 2022 13:46:35 +0100
"Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)" <briang1@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

> They really used to go to town designing album covers though, who can
> forget the Stones Sticky fingers with unzippable flies on the front,

I had that one, it went with the rest of my record collection to
someone who wanted them.

> or Pat Benetar in a straight jacket?

My brother had an original Ogden's Nutgone Flake in the circular
fold out cover - and *lost* it in a move. He never did take care of
records, my first single was the Who's "The Seeker"/"Here for More" as a
hand me down after he dropped something with a sharp corner on it and made
a dent in the record.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/

On 2022-04-03, Brian Gaff (Sofa) <briang1@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> I also remember the acetates you could record yourself, or indeed sometimes
> they were glued to birthday or Christmas cards so you could play them. They
> did not last long. There is one knocking about somewhere of Cilla Black
> singing Fever, rather badly. It only plays so far then gets stuck!
> Brian
>

I still have a floppy/cd that was given out at the time of Winston
Churchill's funeral (not at the time of John Churchill's) with
a magazine. It's still in that bookshelf overs there, or was once.

What I remember about CD's was that there were things that would record
high quality tapes being made from high quality sources, and the owners of the
rights to music forced these things to be outlawed. There was a lot of
mumbo-jumbo about CDs, including painting the rims. Vinyl was better.

--
greymausg@mail.com
That's not a mousehole!

On 03/04/2022 14:19, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:
> Are they still around? They had that big hit with tub thumping as I recall,

No. They disbanded about ten yars ago.

Tone

On 03/04/2022 13:54, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:

> Actually you ded not really need all of that top end gear to hear it sound
> better than CD as I said earlier. Half tht problem these days is nobody
> seems to be able to make a decent recording that is not compressed to hell
> and back, so it might as well be on 45.

Actually you do - especially when you are trying to sell it to someone
who does not have a discerning ear. Added to that, I used to be able to
hear the difference between the dry brittle reproduction of CDs (even on
my Shan Ling, which in itself is high-end with optional upsampling and
optional valve stage. I would run a CD and a vinyl record, both made
from the same original master.)

*BUT* one needs to be able to hear the difference, and I'm distressed to
understand that my hearing has been comprehensively ruined in days of
yore by dispatching many, many thousands of fullbore rounds down the
range before earmuffs were understood to be a necessary adjunct to the
sport of target shooting, and, the shotgun didn't help.

--
Rusty Hinge
To err is human. To really foul things up requires a computer and the BOFH.

In article <20220403144214.31bc889ef4365b18ff390d89@eircom.net>, Ahem A
Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> on Sun, 3 Apr 2022 at 14:42:14 awoke
Nicholas from his slumbers and wrote
>On Sun, 3 Apr 2022 13:46:35 +0100
>"Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)" <briang1@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> They really used to go to town designing album covers though, who can
>> forget the Stones Sticky fingers with unzippable flies on the front,
>
> I had that one, it went with the rest of my record collection to
>someone who wanted them.
>
>> or Pat Benetar in a straight jacket?
>
> My brother had an original Ogden's Nutgone Flake in the circular
>fold out cover - and *lost* it in a move. He never did take care of
>records, my first single was the Who's "The Seeker"/"Here for More" as a
>hand me down after he dropped something with a sharp corner on it and made
>a dent in the record.
>
I wanted 'Last Train to San Fernando' but we only had a wind up
gramophone.
--
0sterc@tcher -

"Où sont les neiges d'antan?"

In article <t2ce3o$d2k$1@dont-email.me>, RustyHinge <rusty.hinge@foobar.
girolle.co.uk> on Sun, 3 Apr 2022 at 16:22:31 awoke Nicholas from his
slumbers and wrote
>On 03/04/2022 13:54, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:
>
>> Actually you ded not really need all of that top end gear to hear it sound
>> better than CD as I said earlier. Half tht problem these days is nobody
>> seems to be able to make a decent recording that is not compressed to hell
>> and back, so it might as well be on 45.
>
>Actually you do - especially when you are trying to sell it to someone
>who does not have a discerning ear. Added to that, I used to be able to
>hear the difference between the dry brittle reproduction of CDs (even on
>my Shan Ling, which in itself is high-end with optional upsampling and
>optional valve stage. I would run a CD and a vinyl record, both made
>from the same original master.)
>
>*BUT* one needs to be able to hear the difference, and I'm distressed to
>understand that my hearing has been comprehensively ruined in days of
>yore by dispatching many, many thousands of fullbore rounds down the
>range before earmuffs were understood to be a necessary adjunct to the
>sport of target shooting, and, the shotgun didn't help.
>
My ears keep ringing the same pitches of white noise.
--
0sterc@tcher -

"Où sont les neiges d'antan?"

On 03/04/2022 14:54, Peter wrote:
> "Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)" <briang1@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in news:t2c70t$v28$1
> @dont-email.me:
>
>> Yes but laid down.
>> Brian
>>
>
> Why - are you poorly?
>
No, he gooves he's a bockle of good red wine.

--
Rusty Hinge
To err is human. To really foul things up requires a computer and the BOFH.

On 03/04/2022 20:44, Nicholas D. Richards wrote:
>> *BUT* one needs to be able to hear the difference, and I'm distressed to
>> understand that my hearing has been comprehensively ruined in days of
>> yore by dispatching many, many thousands of fullbore rounds down the
>> range before earmuffs were understood to be a necessary adjunct to the
>> sport of target shooting, and, the shotgun didn't help.
>>
> My ears keep ringing the same pitches of white noise.

Considering that in 1962 I was tuning Avon jet engines on Mk 1 Sea Vixi
at 100% power, just a few inches from my head when wearing (on sead
haid) only a pilot's cloth headphone cap, and in the 80s fronted a
progressive folk rock band, my hearing is very good.

Specsavers were very surprised and disappointed that they couldn't sell
me an expensive hearing aid after my free hearing test.

Tone

Only back was a bit sore. if you have a comfy sofa to lay and had a bad
nights sleep...
Brian

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"Peter" <myshed@prune.org.uk> wrote in message
news:XnsAE6E97B627C5FFactura3476@144.76.35.252...
> "Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)" <briang1@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in
> news:t2c70t$v28$1
> @dont-email.me:
>
>> Yes but laid down.
>> Brian
>>
>
> Why - are you poorly?
>
> --
> Peter
> -----

No I'm not alcoholic.
That is a whole other topic of course. How is it that some of us do not
like anything alcoholic, and get depressed if you do drink it to be
sociable, while others seem to use it almost as a way to get high?

I mean I've never smoked either, my parents did so I've probably absorbed
far too much of their smoke.
It is said that in one packet of cigarettes there is enough nicotine to
kill you twice so why don't chain smokers die all the time?

As I say there are a lot of questions out there.
All this from a discussion about eye size of vinyl records!

Brian

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"RustyHinge" <rusty.hinge@foobar.girolle.co.uk> wrote in message
news:t2cuj0$nb6$2@dont-email.me...
> On 03/04/2022 14:54, Peter wrote:
>> "Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)" <briang1@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in
>> news:t2c70t$v28$1
>> @dont-email.me:
>>
>>> Yes but laid down.
>>> Brian
>>>
>>
>> Why - are you poorly?
>>
> No, he gooves he's a bockle of good red wine.
>
> --
> Rusty Hinge
> To err is human. To really foul things up requires a computer and the
> BOFH.

On 3 Apr 2022 14:10:09 GMT
maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote:

> On 2022-04-03, Brian Gaff (Sofa) <briang1@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> > I also remember the acetates you could record yourself, or indeed sometimes
> > they were glued to birthday or Christmas cards so you could play them. They
> > did not last long. There is one knocking about somewhere of Cilla Black
> > singing Fever, rather badly. It only plays so far then gets stuck!
> > Brian
> >
>
> I still have a floppy/cd that was given out at the time of Winston
> Churchill's funeral (not at the time of John Churchill's) with
> a magazine. It's still in that bookshelf overs there, or was once.
>
Died 24 January 1965 (aged 90)

So not a CD. nor a floppy disk; maybe a vinyl floppy record?

>
> What I remember about CD's was that there were things that would record
> high quality tapes being made from high quality sources, and the owners of the
> rights to music forced these things to be outlawed. There was a lot of
> mumbo-jumbo about CDs, including painting the rims. Vinyl was better.
>
> --
> greymausg@mail.com
> That's not a mousehole!

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

Kerr-Mudd, John said:
> maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote:
>
>> I still have a floppy/cd that was given out at the time of Winston
>> Churchill's funeral (not at the time of John Churchill's) with
>> a magazine. It's still in that bookshelf overs there, or was once.
>>
> Died 24 January 1965 (aged 90)
>
> So not a CD. nor a floppy disk; maybe a vinyl floppy record?

Yes, I thought I remembered being Jung. Someone gave me a special
half-crown to remember it by. I've probably still got it somewhere.

--
Richard Robinson
"The whole plan hinged upon the natural curiosity of potatoes" - S. Lem

My email address is at http://qualmograph.org.uk/contact.html