On 2/17/2023 12:31 AM, David P wrote:
> The Climate Crusaders Are Coming for Electric Cars Too
> By Allysia Finley, Feb. 12, 2023, WSJ
>
> Replacing all gasoline-powered cars with electric vehicles won’t be enough to prevent the world from

But it's just FUD.

YESTERDAY is NOT coming back. Not ever.

Electric cars are a distraction. They help us avoid
discussing the things that really need planning.

Paul

There was a staggering fact on the radio, so it must be right, Apparently if
all the thrown away smart phones were stacked on top of each other since
the first one came out, it would reach 1 third of the way to the moon. Of
course I don't see any way to prove this. However we really do need to
decide if there is an energy efficient way to get all the rare elements out
of Electronic devices, I think.
Brian

--

--:
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Paul" <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote in message
news:tsnno3$3k17v$1@dont-email.me...
> On 2/17/2023 12:31 AM, David P wrote:
>> The Climate Crusaders Are Coming for Electric Cars Too
>> By Allysia Finley, Feb. 12, 2023, WSJ
>>
>> Replacing all gasoline-powered cars with electric vehicles won't be
>> enough to prevent the world from
>
> But it's just FUD.
>
> YESTERDAY is NOT coming back. Not ever.
>
> Electric cars are a distraction. They help us avoid
> discussing the things that really need planning.
>
> Paul

On 17/02/2023 14:02, Brian Gaff wrote:
> There was a staggering fact on the radio, so it must be right, Apparently if
> all the thrown away smart phones were stacked on top of each other since
> the first one came out, it would reach 1 third of the way to the moon. Of
> course I don't see any way to prove this. However we really do need to
> decide if there is an energy efficient way to get all the rare elements out
> of Electronic devices, I think.
> Brian
>

If you want stupid then Disposable Vapes seem to beyond belief.

They contain typically a 550mAhr rechargeable Lithium Ion battery. But
there is no way to recharge the battery or to refill the vape liquid.
Yes, you can dismantle them and do this if you can be bothered, the
normal usage is they are designed to be used once and thrown away.

There is a finite amount of Lithium in the world needed for all the
green futures so selling these things to be discarded is utter madness.

Since finding out what the shiny cylinders are that lay in the bushes,
I've been collecting them when out walking the dog and using the
batteries in my ham radio gear. Yesterday I did a 7km walk and found 4
of them, 3x 550mAhr cells and 1x 1500mAhr cell recovered.

On 17/02/2023 14:02, Brian Gaff wrote:
> There was a staggering fact on the radio, so it must be right, Apparently if
> all the thrown away smart phones were stacked on top of each other since
> the first one came out, it would reach 1 third of the way to the moon. Of
> course I don't see any way to prove this. However we really do need to
> decide if there is an energy efficient way to get all the rare elements out
> of Electronic devices, I think.

It surely can't be so much easier to mine the earth than to mine a stack
of used electronics? Normal mining produces tons of ore for very small
amounts of rare metals, that then need to be separated and purified. Old
electronics is probably like a very concentrated ore.

On 17/02/2023 14:45, mm0fmf wrote:
> On 17/02/2023 14:02, Brian Gaff wrote:
>> There was a staggering fact on the radio, so it must be right,
>> Apparently if
>> all the  thrown away smart phones were stacked on top of each other since
>> the first one came out, it would reach 1 third of the way to the moon. Of
>> course I don't see any way to prove this. However we really do need to
>> decide if there is an energy efficient way to get all the rare
>> elements out
>> of Electronic devices, I think.
>>   Brian
>>
>
> If you want stupid then Disposable Vapes seem to beyond belief.
>
> They contain typically a 550mAhr rechargeable Lithium Ion battery. But
> there is no way to recharge the battery or to refill the vape liquid.
> Yes, you can dismantle them and do this if you can be bothered, the
> normal usage is they are designed to be used once and thrown away.

Why on earth would they use lithium batteries in a non-rechargeable
device, with a very short life? Madness.

On 17/02/2023 15:06, SteveW wrote:
> On 17/02/2023 14:45, mm0fmf wrote:
>> On 17/02/2023 14:02, Brian Gaff wrote:
>>> There was a staggering fact on the radio, so it must be right,
>>> Apparently if
>>> all the  thrown away smart phones were stacked on top of each other
>>> since
>>> the first one came out, it would reach 1 third of the way to the
>>> moon. Of
>>> course I don't see any way to prove this. However we really do need to
>>> decide if there is an energy efficient way to get all the rare
>>> elements out
>>> of Electronic devices, I think.
>>>   Brian
>>>
>>
>> If you want stupid then Disposable Vapes seem to beyond belief.
>>
>> They contain typically a 550mAhr rechargeable Lithium Ion battery. But
>> there is no way to recharge the battery or to refill the vape liquid.
>> Yes, you can dismantle them and do this if you can be bothered, the
>> normal usage is they are designed to be used once and thrown away.
>
> Why on earth would they use lithium batteries in a non-rechargeable
> device, with a very short life? Madness.
>
They need a lot of current to power the heater that vapourises the
liquid. Lithium batteries can easily provide the current.

On Fri, 17 Feb 2023 06:17:25 -0500
Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:

> On 2/17/2023 12:31 AM, David P wrote:
> > The Climate Crusaders Are Coming for Electric Cars Too
> > By Allysia Finley, Feb. 12, 2023, WSJ
> >
> > Replacing all gasoline-powered cars with electric vehicles won’t be
> > enough to prevent the world from
>
> But it's just FUD.
>
> YESTERDAY is NOT coming back. Not ever.
>
> Electric cars are a distraction. They help us avoid
> discussing the things that really need planning.
>

Indeed. It was never about climate change, it is all about control.
This particular aspect is about preventing the peasants travelling
around freely, like in the middle ages. Electric cars that only the
rich can afford combine with government-operated cars to eliminate
mobility.

It was always the case that power generation would be run down, coal
extraction has been reducing for a century (not just Maggie) and
nuclear power has been quietly ignored for decades. Against that
background, the idea of using vastly greater amounts of electricity for
cars could never happen. It has all been a hoax.

I hate to say it, but in the UK the requirement for very
electricity-hungry heat pumps is exactly the same thing. The government
knows it can never happen, or at least not without a considerable
reduction in population.

--
Joe

Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote
> David P wrote

>> The Climate Crusaders Are Coming for Electric Cars Too
>> By Allysia Finley, Feb. 12, 2023, WSJ

>> Replacing all gasoline-powered cars with electric vehicles won’t be
>> enough to prevent the world from

> But it's just FUD.

> YESTERDAY is NOT coming back. Not ever.

> Electric cars are a distraction. They help us avoid
> discussing the things that really need planning.

Like what ?

On Sat, 18 Feb 2023 04:20:35 +1100, Joe <joe@jretrading.com> wrote:

> On Fri, 17 Feb 2023 06:17:25 -0500
> Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 2/17/2023 12:31 AM, David P wrote:
>> > The Climate Crusaders Are Coming for Electric Cars Too
>> > By Allysia Finley, Feb. 12, 2023, WSJ
>> >
>> > Replacing all gasoline-powered cars with electric vehicles won’t be
>> > enough to prevent the world from
>>
>> But it's just FUD.
>>
>> YESTERDAY is NOT coming back. Not ever.
>>
>> Electric cars are a distraction. They help us avoid
>> discussing the things that really need planning.
>>
>
> Indeed. It was never about climate change, it is all about control.
> This particular aspect is about preventing the peasants travelling
> around freely, like in the middle ages. Electric cars that only the
> rich can afford combine with government-operated cars to eliminate
> mobility.

Mindless conspiracy theory.

> It was always the case that power generation would be run down, coal
> extraction has been reducing for a century (not just Maggie) and
> nuclear power has been quietly ignored for decades. Against that
> background, the idea of using vastly greater amounts of electricity for
> cars could never happen. It has all been a hoax.

> I hate to say it, but in the UK the requirement for very
> electricity-hungry heat pumps is exactly the same thing. The government
> knows it can never happen, or at least not without a considerable
> reduction in population.

Mindless conspiracy theory.

On Sat, 18 Feb 2023 06:17:15 +1100
"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sat, 18 Feb 2023 04:20:35 +1100, Joe <joe@jretrading.com> wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 17 Feb 2023 06:17:25 -0500
> > Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
> >
> >> On 2/17/2023 12:31 AM, David P wrote:
> >> > The Climate Crusaders Are Coming for Electric Cars Too
> >> > By Allysia Finley, Feb. 12, 2023, WSJ
> >> >
> >> > Replacing all gasoline-powered cars with electric vehicles won’t
> >> > be enough to prevent the world from
> >>
> >> But it's just FUD.
> >>
> >> YESTERDAY is NOT coming back. Not ever.
> >>
> >> Electric cars are a distraction. They help us avoid
> >> discussing the things that really need planning.
> >>
> >
> > Indeed. It was never about climate change, it is all about control.
> > This particular aspect is about preventing the peasants travelling
> > around freely, like in the middle ages. Electric cars that only the
> > rich can afford combine with government-operated cars to eliminate
> > mobility.
>
> Mindless conspiracy theory.
>
Soooo... given an increasing proportion of generated power being
renewable and hence intermittent, and little planning to build new
baseload power stations, where do you expect the charging power for,
say, forty million electric cars to come from? Oh, and the electricity
to run forty million heat pumps? Given that renewables are at their
least useful in the coldest weather, at least in my country.

Or do you think fusion power is now less than twenty years away, having
been there for the last seventy years?

--
Joe

On 2/17/2023 12:20 PM, Joe wrote:

> Indeed. It was never about climate change, it is all about control.
> This particular aspect is about preventing the peasants travelling
> around freely, like in the middle ages. Electric cars that only the
> rich can afford combine with government-operated cars to eliminate
> mobility.

There is a vehicle available for $6000, which is half
the price of some eBike someone made for $12000. The neat
thing is, it has two removable battery packs you can
carry into your apartment. They're trying to make the
battery packs so you can lift them.

[62 miles, 28MPH, $6250]

https://www.thecooldown.com/green-tech/the-squad-mobility-electric-car-cheap-city/

[44 miles, 28MPH, $6000]

https://electrek.co/2021/05/04/citroen-ami-small-electric-car-coming-to-us-subscription-service/

[A $6000 chinese city car, incomplete specs]

https://evcentral.com.au/sorry-tesla-this-is-the-worlds-best-selling-ev-its-6000/

[A $12000 eBike, 20mph]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Du7seHXWsAEas3O?format=jpg&name=small

These city-cars can only travel on a few city streets, because
they don't have a high top speed.

You won't go on holiday in it, but it gets you to work,
when unreliable public transit (where I live) cannot :-)

There are eBikes for $2000, the $12000 one was carbon fiber
or something.

In any case, the peasant-mobile exists.

Paul

SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:
> On 17/02/2023 14:02, Brian Gaff wrote:
> > There was a staggering fact on the radio, so it must be right, Apparently if
> > all the thrown away smart phones were stacked on top of each other since
> > the first one came out, it would reach 1 third of the way to the moon. Of
> > course I don't see any way to prove this. However we really do need to
> > decide if there is an energy efficient way to get all the rare elements out
> > of Electronic devices, I think.
>
> It surely can't be so much easier to mine the earth than to mine a stack
> of used electronics? Normal mining produces tons of ore for very small
> amounts of rare metals, that then need to be separated and purified. Old
> electronics is probably like a very concentrated ore.

That's exactly how this EV battery recycler sees it:
https://www.redwoodmaterials.com/solutions/

They are recycling any electronics with a battery and turning them into
fresh materials like copper anode foil for new batteries.
(they're in Nevada, so not so useful for us)

Theo

On Sat, 18 Feb 2023 07:33:31 +1100, Joe <joe@jretrading.com> wrote:

> On Sat, 18 Feb 2023 06:17:15 +1100
> "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 18 Feb 2023 04:20:35 +1100, Joe <joe@jretrading.com> wrote:
>>
>> > On Fri, 17 Feb 2023 06:17:25 -0500
>> > Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On 2/17/2023 12:31 AM, David P wrote:
>> >> > The Climate Crusaders Are Coming for Electric Cars Too
>> >> > By Allysia Finley, Feb. 12, 2023, WSJ
>> >> >
>> >> > Replacing all gasoline-powered cars with electric vehicles won’t
>> >> > be enough to prevent the world from
>> >>
>> >> But it's just FUD.
>> >>
>> >> YESTERDAY is NOT coming back. Not ever.
>> >>
>> >> Electric cars are a distraction. They help us avoid
>> >> discussing the things that really need planning.
>> >>
>> >
>> > Indeed. It was never about climate change, it is all about control.
>> > This particular aspect is about preventing the peasants travelling
>> > around freely, like in the middle ages. Electric cars that only the
>> > rich can afford combine with government-operated cars to eliminate
>> > mobility.

>> Mindless conspiracy theory.

> Soooo... given an increasing proportion of generated power being
> renewable and hence intermittent, and little planning to build new
> baseload power stations, where do you expect the charging power for,
> say, forty million electric cars to come from?

From the power generators that turn out to be needed in the future.

> Oh, and the electricity
> to run forty million heat pumps?

Ditto, or there don't end up being 40M heat pumps.

> Given that renewables are at their
> least useful in the coldest weather, at least in my country.

Thats a lie with wind power.

> Or do you think fusion power is now less than twenty years away, having
> been there for the last seventy years?

Nope, that when there turns out to be a need for more reliable
base load power, nukes will be built.

On Fri, 17 Feb 2023 15:38:06 -0500
Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:

> On 2/17/2023 12:20 PM, Joe wrote:
>
> > Indeed. It was never about climate change, it is all about control.
> > This particular aspect is about preventing the peasants travelling
> > around freely, like in the middle ages. Electric cars that only the
> > rich can afford combine with government-operated cars to eliminate
> > mobility.
>
> There is a vehicle available for $6000, which is half
> the price of some eBike someone made for $12000.

Not over here. But I was thinking about running them, which is now
pretty much the same cost as liquid fuel, and the cost of electricity
can only go up. The subsidies and tax breaks are slowly being withdrawn.

And the idea of 'autonomous cars' is another mirage. Self-driving cars
can only work on a large scale in urban streets if all are centrally
controlled. They will never be autonomous.

--
Joe

On 17/02/2023 20:33, Joe wrote:
> On Sat, 18 Feb 2023 06:17:15 +1100
> "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 18 Feb 2023 04:20:35 +1100, Joe <joe@jretrading.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 17 Feb 2023 06:17:25 -0500
>>> Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2/17/2023 12:31 AM, David P wrote:
>>>>> The Climate Crusaders Are Coming for Electric Cars Too
>>>>> By Allysia Finley, Feb. 12, 2023, WSJ
>>>>>
>>>>> Replacing all gasoline-powered cars with electric vehicles won’t
>>>>> be enough to prevent the world from
>>>>
>>>> But it's just FUD.
>>>>
>>>> YESTERDAY is NOT coming back. Not ever.
>>>>
>>>> Electric cars are a distraction. They help us avoid
>>>> discussing the things that really need planning.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Indeed. It was never about climate change, it is all about control.
>>> This particular aspect is about preventing the peasants travelling
>>> around freely, like in the middle ages. Electric cars that only the
>>> rich can afford combine with government-operated cars to eliminate
>>> mobility.
>>
>> Mindless conspiracy theory.
>>
> Soooo... given an increasing proportion of generated power being
> renewable and hence intermittent, and little planning to build new
> baseload power stations, where do you expect the charging power for,
> say, forty million electric cars to come from?

A large chunk of it simply from the existing generation capacity that is
provided for the peak of the day, but not currently needed in the early
hours of the morning. As long as people mainly charge at home.

> Oh, and the electricity
> to run forty million heat pumps? Given that renewables are at their
> least useful in the coldest weather, at least in my country.

That is indeed a big problem.

> Or do you think fusion power is now less than twenty years away, having
> been there for the last seventy years?

But fission power from SMRs is not so far away.

On 17/02/2023 20:38, Paul wrote:
> On 2/17/2023 12:20 PM, Joe wrote:
>
>> Indeed. It was never about climate change, it is all about control.
>> This particular aspect is about preventing the peasants travelling
>> around freely, like in the middle ages. Electric cars that only the
>> rich can afford combine with government-operated cars to eliminate
>> mobility.
>
> There is a vehicle available for $6000, which is half
> the price of some eBike someone made for $12000. The neat
> thing is, it has two removable battery packs you can
> carry into your apartment. They're trying to make the
> battery packs so you can lift them.
>
> [62 miles, 28MPH, $6250]
>
>
> https://www.thecooldown.com/green-tech/the-squad-mobility-electric-car-cheap-city/
>
> [44 miles, 28MPH, $6000]
>
>
> https://electrek.co/2021/05/04/citroen-ami-small-electric-car-coming-to-us-subscription-service/
>
> [A $6000 chinese city car, incomplete specs]
>
>
> https://evcentral.com.au/sorry-tesla-this-is-the-worlds-best-selling-ev-its-6000/
>
> [A $12000 eBike, 20mph]
>
>    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Du7seHXWsAEas3O?format=jpg&name=small
>
> These city-cars can only travel on a few city streets, because
> they don't have a high top speed.
>
> You won't go on holiday in it, but it gets you to work,
> when unreliable public transit (where I live) cannot :-)
>
> There are eBikes for $2000, the $12000 one was carbon fiber
> or something.
>
> In any case, the peasant-mobile exists.

But would be very restrictive. No good for holidays, visiting friends in
another part of the country, getting to work via a motorway, towing,
carrying a family around, shopping for a family for a decent period,
collecting bulky items - all things that cars are used for all the time.

On 17 Feb 2023 at 21:10:00 GMT, "SteveW" <steve@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:

> On 17/02/2023 20:33, Joe wrote:

>> Soooo... given an increasing proportion of generated power being
>> renewable and hence intermittent, and little planning to build new
>> baseload power stations, where do you expect the charging power for,
>> say, forty million electric cars to come from?
>
> A large chunk of it simply from the existing generation capacity that is
> provided for the peak of the day, but not currently needed in the early
> hours of the morning. As long as people mainly charge at home.

A lot of people won't be able to charge at home. Like all those who live in
terraced houses, where even if the house doesn't give quite directly onto the
pavement, the normal state of affairs is that they park (nose to tail) with
everyone else on the street - which itself is less than four cars-width wide.
Every lamppost will have a charger, do I hear you say? So that'll be 20 cars
per lamppost, then. Otherwise they'll have to run the cables over the pavement
- cue millions of incidents of bovver because our Marlene tripped over the
cable.

> But fission power from SMRs is not so far away.

Lets hope so.

--
What power have you got?
Where did you get it from?
In whose interests do you use it?
To whom are you accountable?
How do we get rid of you?

Tony Benn

On Sat, 18 Feb 2023 07:49:52 +1100, Joe <joe@jretrading.com> wrote:

> On Fri, 17 Feb 2023 15:38:06 -0500
> Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 2/17/2023 12:20 PM, Joe wrote:
>>
>> > Indeed. It was never about climate change, it is all about control.
>> > This particular aspect is about preventing the peasants travelling
>> > around freely, like in the middle ages. Electric cars that only the
>> > rich can afford combine with government-operated cars to eliminate
>> > mobility.
>>
>> There is a vehicle available for $6000, which is half
>> the price of some eBike someone made for $12000.
>
> Not over here. But I was thinking about running them, which is now
> pretty much the same cost as liquid fuel, and the cost of electricity
> can only go up.

That remains to be seen once lots more nukes are
built and imo that is certain to happen eventually.

> The subsidies and tax breaks are slowly being withdrawn.

Sure, but nukes don't need those.

> And the idea of 'autonomous cars' is another mirage. Self-driving cars
> can only work on a large scale in urban streets if all are centrally
> controlled.

Wrong.

> They will never be autonomous.

That remains to be seen too.

On 17/02/2023 21:45, Tim Streater wrote:
> On 17 Feb 2023 at 21:10:00 GMT, "SteveW" <steve@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 17/02/2023 20:33, Joe wrote:
>
>>> Soooo... given an increasing proportion of generated power being
>>> renewable and hence intermittent, and little planning to build new
>>> baseload power stations, where do you expect the charging power for,
>>> say, forty million electric cars to come from?
>>
>> A large chunk of it simply from the existing generation capacity that is
>> provided for the peak of the day, but not currently needed in the early
>> hours of the morning. As long as people mainly charge at home.
>
> A lot of people won't be able to charge at home. Like all those who live in
> terraced houses, where even if the house doesn't give quite directly onto the
> pavement, the normal state of affairs is that they park (nose to tail) with
> everyone else on the street - which itself is less than four cars-width wide.
> Every lamppost will have a charger, do I hear you say? So that'll be 20 cars
> per lamppost, then. Otherwise they'll have to run the cables over the pavement
> - cue millions of incidents of bovver because our Marlene tripped over the
> cable.

The simple and pretty cheap solution, is for pavements in front of
terraced houses to be retro-fitted with slotted ducts, at surface level,
that charging cables can be laid in when needed and lifted out after
charging - rather like the old cast-iron drainage ducts, taking water
from downpipes to the gutter.

That doesn't solve the problem of other people parking outside your
house though.

>> But fission power from SMRs is not so far away.
>
> Lets hope so.

On 17-Feb-23 21:45, Tim Streater wrote:
> On 17 Feb 2023 at 21:10:00 GMT, "SteveW" <steve@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 17/02/2023 20:33, Joe wrote:
>
>>> Soooo... given an increasing proportion of generated power being
>>> renewable and hence intermittent, and little planning to build new
>>> baseload power stations, where do you expect the charging power for,
>>> say, forty million electric cars to come from?
>>
>> A large chunk of it simply from the existing generation capacity that is
>> provided for the peak of the day, but not currently needed in the early
>> hours of the morning. As long as people mainly charge at home.
>
> A lot of people won't be able to charge at home. Like all those who live in
> terraced houses, where even if the house doesn't give quite directly onto the
> pavement, the normal state of affairs is that they park (nose to tail) with
> everyone else on the street - which itself is less than four cars-width wide.
> Every lamppost will have a charger, do I hear you say? So that'll be 20 cars
> per lamppost, then. Otherwise they'll have to run the cables over the pavement
> - cue millions of incidents of bovver because our Marlene tripped over the
> cable.

Run power cables overhead from one lamp post to the next.
Equip each electric car with an overhead pantograph, to contact those
cables.
Then...
Hmmm. We need properly grounded roads, & conductive tyres.

--
Sam Plusnet

On 17-Feb-23 23:20, SteveW wrote:
> On 17/02/2023 21:45, Tim Streater wrote:
>> On 17 Feb 2023 at 21:10:00 GMT, "SteveW" <steve@walker-family.me.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 17/02/2023 20:33, Joe wrote:
>>
>>>> Soooo... given an increasing proportion of generated power being
>>>> renewable and hence intermittent, and little planning to build new
>>>> baseload power stations, where do you expect the charging power for,
>>>> say, forty million electric cars to come from?
>>>
>>> A large chunk of it simply from the existing generation capacity that is
>>> provided for the peak of the day, but not currently needed in the early
>>> hours of the morning. As long as people mainly charge at home.
>>
>> A lot of people won't be able to charge at home. Like all those who
>> live in
>> terraced houses, where even if the house doesn't give quite directly
>> onto the
>> pavement, the normal state of affairs is that they park (nose to tail)
>> with
>> everyone else on the street - which itself is less than four
>> cars-width wide.
>> Every lamppost will have a charger, do I hear you say? So that'll be
>> 20 cars
>> per lamppost, then. Otherwise they'll have to run the cables over the
>> pavement
>> - cue millions of incidents of bovver because our Marlene tripped over
>> the
>> cable.
>
> The simple and pretty cheap solution, is for pavements in front of
> terraced houses to be retro-fitted with slotted ducts, at surface level,
> that charging cables can be laid in when needed and lifted out after
> charging - rather like the  old cast-iron drainage ducts, taking water
> from downpipes to the gutter.
>
> That doesn't solve the problem of other people parking outside your
> house though.

Make it easy to obtain planning permission to annex the section of road
outside your home.
Pity about people who live in flats.

--
Sam Plusnet

On Friday, 17 February 2023 at 21:10:04 UTC, SteveW wrote:
> On 17/02/2023 20:33, Joe wrote:
> > On Sat, 18 Feb 2023 06:17:15 +1100
> > "Rod Speed" <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On Sat, 18 Feb 2023 04:20:35 +1100, Joe <j...@jretrading.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Fri, 17 Feb 2023 06:17:25 -0500
> >>> Paul <nos...@needed.invalid> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On 2/17/2023 12:31 AM, David P wrote:
> >>>>> The Climate Crusaders Are Coming for Electric Cars Too
> >>>>> By Allysia Finley, Feb. 12, 2023, WSJ
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Replacing all gasoline-powered cars with electric vehicles won’t
> >>>>> be enough to prevent the world from
> >>>>
> >>>> But it's just FUD.
> >>>>
> >>>> YESTERDAY is NOT coming back. Not ever.
> >>>>
> >>>> Electric cars are a distraction. They help us avoid
> >>>> discussing the things that really need planning.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> Indeed. It was never about climate change, it is all about control.
> >>> This particular aspect is about preventing the peasants travelling
> >>> around freely, like in the middle ages. Electric cars that only the
> >>> rich can afford combine with government-operated cars to eliminate
> >>> mobility.
> >>
> >> Mindless conspiracy theory.
> >>
> > Soooo... given an increasing proportion of generated power being
> > renewable and hence intermittent, and little planning to build new
> > baseload power stations, where do you expect the charging power for,
> > say, forty million electric cars to come from?
> A large chunk of it simply from the existing generation capacity that is
> provided for the peak of the day, but not currently needed in the early
> hours of the morning. As long as people mainly charge at home.

that's like dial up over phone lines, it'll do to get a fair number of people started, but will never work well enough & never meet the needs of all.

> > Oh, and the electricity
> > to run forty million heat pumps? Given that renewables are at their
> > least useful in the coldest weather, at least in my country.
> That is indeed a big problem.

> > Or do you think fusion power is now less than twenty years away, having
> > been there for the last seventy years?
> But fission power from SMRs is not so far away.

Govt claims of transitions can't happen, it can't be done because the proposed replacements aren't upto the task.

On 2/17/2023 3:47 PM, Rod Speed wrote:
> On Sat, 18 Feb 2023 07:33:31 +1100, Joe <joe@jretrading.com> wrote:

>> Given that renewables are at their
>> least useful in the coldest weather, at least in my country.
>
> Thats a lie with wind power.

Wind comes with no guarantees.

https://www.greenbiz.com/article/global-stilling-climate-change-slowing-down-wind

This is why you build a "basket" of energy sources.

Paul

Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Joe <joe@jretrading.com> wrote

>>> Given that renewables are at their
>>> least useful in the coldest weather, at least in my country.

> Thats a lie with wind power.

> Wind comes with no guarantees.

Irrelevant to that lie that wind is the least usful in the coldest weather.

> https://www.greenbiz.com/article/global-stilling-climate-change-slowing-down-wind

Irrelevant to that lie that wind is the least usful in the coldest weather.

> This is why you build a "basket" of energy sources.

Don't need one with enough nukes, as France proved.

On 17/02/2023 21:10, SteveW wrote:
> But fission power from SMRs is not so far away.

Until the Moscow funded Greens find a way to stop it.

--
Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the
gospel of envy.

Its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.

Winston Churchill