Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote:
>
> Except for the latest ones that are fitted with 15 microprocessors.
>
> You think I'm joking? I flattened the battery in my 2018 Subaru and, due
> to a fuck-up with jump starting the thing, I managed to shut down all
> the safety systems. I took it to my mechanic, who placed his OBD-II
> machine on the car. It reported the prescence of 27 microprocessors. BY
> my reckoning my Suby has about a billion times more computing power than
> a space shuttle.

They now often have multiple processors in the same chip, probably
adding up to more than that system reports. Eg. the BCM2835 SoC
used for the original Raspberry Pi includes the CPU, but also a
secondary "videocore" processor (VPU), as well as "quad" processors
(QPUs) which are used for 3D acceleration processing.

On the models that include a chip for Bluetooth/WiFi, that chip
has one ARM-based processor for Bluetooth and another for WiFi.
The CPU is actually booted by the VPU, then the CPU boots up the
BT/WiFi processors.

--
__ __
#_ < |\| |< _#

I note that NSW Health is now recommending that people get their second
jab sooner in the light of the current outbreak. I've managed to book it
for today.

Sylvia.

On 12/07/2021 9:09 am, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
> Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote:
>>
>> Except for the latest ones that are fitted with 15 microprocessors.
>>
>> You think I'm joking? I flattened the battery in my 2018 Subaru and, due
>> to a fuck-up with jump starting the thing, I managed to shut down all
>> the safety systems. I took it to my mechanic, who placed his OBD-II
>> machine on the car. It reported the prescence of 27 microprocessors. BY
>> my reckoning my Suby has about a billion times more computing power than
>> a space shuttle.
>
> They now often have multiple processors in the same chip, probably
> adding up to more than that system reports. Eg. the BCM2835 SoC
> used for the original Raspberry Pi includes the CPU, but also a
> secondary "videocore" processor (VPU), as well as "quad" processors
> (QPUs) which are used for 3D acceleration processing.
>
> On the models that include a chip for Bluetooth/WiFi, that chip
> has one ARM-based processor for Bluetooth and another for WiFi.
> The CPU is actually booted by the VPU, then the CPU boots up the
> BT/WiFi processors.
>

**Yep.

On 12/07/2021 9:20 am, Sylvia Else wrote:
> I note that NSW Health is now recommending that people get their second
> jab sooner in the light of the current outbreak. I've managed to book it
> for today.
>
> Sylvia.

**You're lucky. My quack can't fit me in until next Wednesday. That
gives me 8 weeks between jabs.

On 12-Jul-21 9:53 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> On 12/07/2021 9:20 am, Sylvia Else wrote:
>> I note that NSW Health is now recommending that people get their
>> second jab sooner in the light of the current outbreak. I've managed
>> to book it for today.
>>
>> Sylvia.
>
> **You're lucky. My quack can't fit me in until next Wednesday. That
> gives me 8 weeks between jabs.

My own doctor's offering was 4th August, so I mentally said "bugger
that" and looked around for on-line booking options.

Depends on the area, of course, and your mileage may vary.

The main issue, to my mind, is what the situation might be when I had to
expose myself to potential infection in order to get the jab. I'm on the
north shore, which at present seems a small risk. A month from now,
which is about when I was due, the situation could be a hell of a lot
worse. Or the problem could have been solved. One has to make a call on
that.

Sylvia.

On 12/07/2021 11:17 am, Sylvia Else wrote:
> On 12-Jul-21 9:53 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> On 12/07/2021 9:20 am, Sylvia Else wrote:
>>> I note that NSW Health is now recommending that people get their
>>> second jab sooner in the light of the current outbreak. I've managed
>>> to book it for today.
>>>
>>> Sylvia.
>>
>> **You're lucky. My quack can't fit me in until next Wednesday. That
>> gives me 8 weeks between jabs.
>
> My own doctor's offering was 4th August, so I mentally said "bugger
> that" and looked around for on-line booking options.
>
> Depends on the area, of course, and your mileage may vary.
>
> The main issue, to my mind, is what the situation might be when I had to
> expose myself to potential infection in order to get the jab. I'm on the
> north shore, which at present seems a small risk. A month from now,
> which is about when I was due, the situation could be a hell of a lot
> worse. Or the problem could have been solved. One has to make a call on
> that.
>
> Sylvia.

**Good thinking.

On 12/07/2021 9:09 am, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
> Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote:
>>
>> Except for the latest ones that are fitted with 15 microprocessors.
>>
>> You think I'm joking? I flattened the battery in my 2018 Subaru and, due
>> to a fuck-up with jump starting the thing, I managed to shut down all
>> the safety systems. I took it to my mechanic, who placed his OBD-II
>> machine on the car. It reported the prescence of 27 microprocessors. BY
>> my reckoning my Suby has about a billion times more computing power than
>> a space shuttle.
>
> They now often have multiple processors in the same chip, probably
> adding up to more than that system reports. Eg. the BCM2835 SoC
> used for the original Raspberry Pi includes the CPU, but also a
> secondary "videocore" processor (VPU), as well as "quad" processors
> (QPUs) which are used for 3D acceleration processing.
>
> On the models that include a chip for Bluetooth/WiFi, that chip
> has one ARM-based processor for Bluetooth and another for WiFi.
> The CPU is actually booted by the VPU, then the CPU boots up the
> BT/WiFi processors.
>
The sub $10 ESP32 chip has 2 32 bit processors, an ultra low power
processor, and another to handle WiFi.

On 12/07/2021 11:23 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> On 12/07/2021 11:17 am, Sylvia Else wrote:
>> On 12-Jul-21 9:53 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>> On 12/07/2021 9:20 am, Sylvia Else wrote:
>>>> I note that NSW Health is now recommending that people get their
>>>> second jab sooner in the light of the current outbreak. I've managed
>>>> to book it for today.
>>>>
>>>> Sylvia.
>>>
>>> **You're lucky. My quack can't fit me in until next Wednesday. That
>>> gives me 8 weeks between jabs.
>>
>> My own doctor's offering was 4th August, so I mentally said "bugger
>> that" and looked around for on-line booking options.
>>
>> Depends on the area, of course, and your mileage may vary.
>>
>> The main issue, to my mind, is what the situation might be when I had
>> to expose myself to potential infection in order to get the jab. I'm
>> on the north shore, which at present seems a small risk. A month from
>> now, which is about when I was due, the situation could be a hell of a
>> lot worse. Or the problem could have been solved. One has to make a
>> call on that.
>>
>> Sylvia.
>
> **Good thinking.

Got in early here in Qld, had the second jab 3 weeks ago with the full
12 week interval.

On 12-Jul-21 1:45 pm, keithr0 wrote:
> On 12/07/2021 11:23 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> On 12/07/2021 11:17 am, Sylvia Else wrote:
>>> On 12-Jul-21 9:53 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>> On 12/07/2021 9:20 am, Sylvia Else wrote:
>>>>> I note that NSW Health is now recommending that people get their
>>>>> second jab sooner in the light of the current outbreak. I've
>>>>> managed to book it for today.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sylvia.
>>>>
>>>> **You're lucky. My quack can't fit me in until next Wednesday. That
>>>> gives me 8 weeks between jabs.
>>>
>>> My own doctor's offering was 4th August, so I mentally said "bugger
>>> that" and looked around for on-line booking options.
>>>
>>> Depends on the area, of course, and your mileage may vary.
>>>
>>> The main issue, to my mind, is what the situation might be when I had
>>> to expose myself to potential infection in order to get the jab. I'm
>>> on the north shore, which at present seems a small risk. A month from
>>> now, which is about when I was due, the situation could be a hell of
>>> a lot worse. Or the problem could have been solved. One has to make a
>>> call on that.
>>>
>>> Sylvia.
>>
>> **Good thinking.
>
> Got in early here in Qld, had the second jab 3 weeks ago with the full
> 12 week interval.

All those people who were saying there was no hurry, and they'd wait and
see, must be hating themselves now.

Sylvia.

On 12/07/2021 2:50 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> On 12/07/2021 4:16 am, R Souls wrote:
>> On Mon, 5 Jul 2021 20:33:32 -0700 (PDT), Phil Allison
>> <pallison49@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>> ================
>>>>
>>>> I've been cleaning out the store-room (aka: The garage). Look at what I
>>>> found:
>>>>
>>>> https://imgur.com/dfEQnOh
>>>>
>>>> My very first power transistor (if you don't count the AC128 that came
>>>> with my Philips Electronic Engineer kit). The mighty 2N301.
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>> ** Remember them well, every 60s pushbutton car radio had one -
>>> operating in class A with a choke load and a 16 ohm speaker.
>>>     Usually mounted on a black anodised Al heatsink with no insulators.
>>>
>>>     One I worked on had special 12V supply valves in the RF stages.
>>
>> I had one of those. It was a Motorola.and it worked a treat. Can't
>> remember where I found it but I fitted it into my Austin Maxi in the
>> 1980s. It was made for a positive earth system so I had to insullate
>> the whole thing form the car chassis. My mates couldn't understand why
>> it took half a minute to warm up.
>>
>> I got 35 quid for it on ebay a few years back. A bloke wanted it for
>> his 1959 Hillman Minx he'd restored..
>
> **"Warm up"? Must have been a valve model. ALL SS ones are instant on.
> Except for the latest ones that are fitted with 15 microprocessors.
>
> You think I'm joking? I flattened the battery in my 2018 Subaru and, due
> to a fuck-up with jump starting the thing, I managed to shut down all
> the safety systems. I took it to my mechanic, who placed his OBD-II
> machine on the car. It reported the prescence of 27 microprocessors.

That's a low number by todays standards but that's unsurprising for a
Subaru. When I did the Holden Vectra training around 2003 or so that
model already had around that many.

BY
> my reckoning my Suby has about a billion times more computing power than
> a space shuttle.
>

Not really. Each module contains it's own "computer" and they
communicate over the CAN-BUS. Many of these are typically pretty low
power in terms of computing power. There is one for pretty much
everything these days.

On 13/07/2021 11:22 am, Clocky wrote:
> On 12/07/2021 2:50 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> On 12/07/2021 4:16 am, R Souls wrote:
>>> On Mon, 5 Jul 2021 20:33:32 -0700 (PDT), Phil Allison
>>> <pallison49@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>> ================
>>>>>
>>>>> I've been cleaning out the store-room (aka: The garage). Look at
>>>>> what I
>>>>> found:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://imgur.com/dfEQnOh
>>>>>
>>>>> My very first power transistor (if you don't count the AC128 that came
>>>>> with my Philips Electronic Engineer kit). The mighty 2N301.
>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ** Remember them well, every 60s pushbutton car radio had one -
>>>> operating in class A with a choke load and a 16 ohm speaker.
>>>>     Usually mounted on a black anodised Al heatsink with no insulators.
>>>>
>>>>     One I worked on had special 12V supply valves in the RF stages.
>>>
>>> I had one of those. It was a Motorola.and it worked a treat. Can't
>>> remember where I found it but I fitted it into my Austin Maxi in the
>>> 1980s. It was made for a positive earth system so I had to insullate
>>> the whole thing form the car chassis. My mates couldn't understand why
>>> it took half a minute to warm up.
>>>
>>> I got 35 quid for it on ebay a few years back. A bloke wanted it for
>>> his 1959 Hillman Minx he'd restored..
>>
>> **"Warm up"? Must have been a valve model. ALL SS ones are instant on.
>> Except for the latest ones that are fitted with 15 microprocessors.
>>
>> You think I'm joking? I flattened the battery in my 2018 Subaru and,
>> due to a fuck-up with jump starting the thing, I managed to shut down
>> all the safety systems. I took it to my mechanic, who placed his
>> OBD-II machine on the car. It reported the prescence of 27
>> microprocessors.
>
> That's a low number by todays standards but that's unsurprising for a
> Subaru. When I did the Holden Vectra training around 2003 or so that
> model already had around that many.

**Really. That surprises me. I had the in-laws' 2001 Vectra here for a
bit, as they wanted it sold. It was less sophisticated than my VP
Commodore (admittedly, optioned to Calais level). Unless, of course,
they did a radical re-fit of the Vectra by 2003.

>
> BY
>> my reckoning my Suby has about a billion times more computing power
>> than a space shuttle.
>>
>
> Not really. Each module contains it's own "computer" and they
> communicate over the CAN-BUS. Many of these are typically pretty low
> power in terms of computing power. There is one for pretty much
> everything these days.

**True enough. Bloody things are everywhere. They're so cheap and so
powerful, manufacturers can't help themselves. When I built an
intermittant wiper attachment for my Escort, I needed a small handful of
discrete components (A UJT, an SCR, a potentiometer, a couple of caps
and half a dozen resistors). Even back then it cost less than $15.00 to
build. I betcha manufacturers use a dedicated micro for the job.

On 13/7/21 11:44 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> On 13/07/2021 11:22 am, Clocky wrote:
>> On 12/07/2021 2:50 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>> On 12/07/2021 4:16 am, R Souls wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 5 Jul 2021 20:33:32 -0700 (PDT), Phil Allison
>>>> <pallison49@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>> ================
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've been cleaning out the store-room (aka: The garage). Look at
>>>>>> what I
>>>>>> found:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://imgur.com/dfEQnOh
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My very first power transistor (if you don't count the AC128 that
>>>>>> came
>>>>>> with my Philips Electronic Engineer kit). The mighty 2N301.
>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ** Remember them well, every 60s pushbutton car radio had one -
>>>>> operating in class A with a choke load and a 16 ohm speaker.
>>>>>     Usually mounted on a black anodised Al heatsink with no
>>>>> insulators.
>>>>>
>>>>>     One I worked on had special 12V supply valves in the RF stages.
>>>>
>>>> I had one of those. It was a Motorola.and it worked a treat. Can't
>>>> remember where I found it but I fitted it into my Austin Maxi in the
>>>> 1980s. It was made for a positive earth system so I had to insullate
>>>> the whole thing form the car chassis. My mates couldn't understand why
>>>> it took half a minute to warm up.
>>>>
>>>> I got 35 quid for it on ebay a few years back. A bloke wanted it for
>>>> his 1959 Hillman Minx he'd restored..
>>>
>>> **"Warm up"? Must have been a valve model. ALL SS ones are instant
>>> on. Except for the latest ones that are fitted with 15 microprocessors.
>>>
>>> You think I'm joking? I flattened the battery in my 2018 Subaru and,
>>> due to a fuck-up with jump starting the thing, I managed to shut down
>>> all the safety systems. I took it to my mechanic, who placed his
>>> OBD-II machine on the car. It reported the prescence of 27
>>> microprocessors.
>>
>> That's a low number by todays standards but that's unsurprising for a
>> Subaru. When I did the Holden Vectra training around 2003 or so that
>> model already had around that many.
>
> **Really. That surprises me. I had the in-laws' 2001 Vectra here for a
> bit, as they wanted it sold. It was less sophisticated than my VP
> Commodore (admittedly, optioned to Calais level). Unless, of course,
> they did a radical re-fit of the Vectra by 2003.
>
>>
>> BY
>>> my reckoning my Suby has about a billion times more computing power
>>> than a space shuttle.
>>>
>>
>> Not really. Each module contains it's own "computer" and they
>> communicate over the CAN-BUS. Many of these are typically pretty low
>> power in terms of computing power. There is one for pretty much
>> everything these days.
>
> **True enough. Bloody things are everywhere. They're so cheap and so
> powerful, manufacturers can't help themselves. When I built an
> intermittant wiper attachment for my Escort, I needed a small handful of
> discrete components (A UJT, an SCR, a potentiometer, a couple of caps
> and half a dozen resistors). Even back then it cost less than $15.00 to
> build. I betcha manufacturers use a dedicated micro for the job.
>

It's cheaper to run power and a data bus everywhere than to run
dedicated feeds to everything. Saves copper, saves complexity, reduces
interconnects. Plus it allows monitoring. Send a message telling the LH
indicators to run, and if you don't get acknowledgement from each one
you can report a lighting fault. Etc.

CH

On 13/7/21 11:44 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> On 13/07/2021 11:22 am, Clocky wrote:
>> On 12/07/2021 2:50 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>> On 12/07/2021 4:16 am, R Souls wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 5 Jul 2021 20:33:32 -0700 (PDT), Phil Allison
>>>> <pallison49@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>> ================
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've been cleaning out the store-room (aka: The garage). Look at
>>>>>> what I
>>>>>> found:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://imgur.com/dfEQnOh
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My very first power transistor (if you don't count the AC128 that
>>>>>> came
>>>>>> with my Philips Electronic Engineer kit). The mighty 2N301.
>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ** Remember them well, every 60s pushbutton car radio had one -
>>>>> operating in class A with a choke load and a 16 ohm speaker.
>>>>>     Usually mounted on a black anodised Al heatsink with no
>>>>> insulators.
>>>>>
>>>>>     One I worked on had special 12V supply valves in the RF stages.
>>>>
>>>> I had one of those. It was a Motorola.and it worked a treat. Can't
>>>> remember where I found it but I fitted it into my Austin Maxi in the
>>>> 1980s. It was made for a positive earth system so I had to insullate
>>>> the whole thing form the car chassis. My mates couldn't understand why
>>>> it took half a minute to warm up.
>>>>
>>>> I got 35 quid for it on ebay a few years back. A bloke wanted it for
>>>> his 1959 Hillman Minx he'd restored..
>>>
>>> **"Warm up"? Must have been a valve model. ALL SS ones are instant
>>> on. Except for the latest ones that are fitted with 15 microprocessors.
>>>
>>> You think I'm joking? I flattened the battery in my 2018 Subaru and,
>>> due to a fuck-up with jump starting the thing, I managed to shut down
>>> all the safety systems. I took it to my mechanic, who placed his
>>> OBD-II machine on the car. It reported the prescence of 27
>>> microprocessors.
>>
>> That's a low number by todays standards but that's unsurprising for a
>> Subaru. When I did the Holden Vectra training around 2003 or so that
>> model already had around that many.
>
> **Really. That surprises me. I had the in-laws' 2001 Vectra here for a
> bit, as they wanted it sold. It was less sophisticated than my VP
> Commodore (admittedly, optioned to Calais level). Unless, of course,
> they did a radical re-fit of the Vectra by 2003.
>
>>
>> BY
>>> my reckoning my Suby has about a billion times more computing power
>>> than a space shuttle.
>>>
>>
>> Not really. Each module contains it's own "computer" and they
>> communicate over the CAN-BUS. Many of these are typically pretty low
>> power in terms of computing power. There is one for pretty much
>> everything these days.
>
> **True enough. Bloody things are everywhere. They're so cheap and so
> powerful, manufacturers can't help themselves. When I built an
> intermittant wiper attachment for my Escort, I needed a small handful of
> discrete components (A UJT, an SCR, a potentiometer, a couple of caps
> and half a dozen resistors). Even back then it cost less than $15.00 to
> build. I betcha manufacturers use a dedicated micro for the job.

Most likely use PAL chips.

>
Back when I did a Chrysler dealer course on the Voyager and the
Wrangler, pre 2000, they had 15+ computers in each of them then. That
number will only have increased since then.

--

Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 13/07/2021 9:44 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> On 13/07/2021 11:22 am, Clocky wrote:
>> On 12/07/2021 2:50 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>> On 12/07/2021 4:16 am, R Souls wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 5 Jul 2021 20:33:32 -0700 (PDT), Phil Allison
>>>> <pallison49@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>> ================
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've been cleaning out the store-room (aka: The garage). Look at
>>>>>> what I
>>>>>> found:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://imgur.com/dfEQnOh
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My very first power transistor (if you don't count the AC128 that
>>>>>> came
>>>>>> with my Philips Electronic Engineer kit). The mighty 2N301.
>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ** Remember them well, every 60s pushbutton car radio had one -
>>>>> operating in class A with a choke load and a 16 ohm speaker.
>>>>>     Usually mounted on a black anodised Al heatsink with no
>>>>> insulators.
>>>>>
>>>>>     One I worked on had special 12V supply valves in the RF stages.
>>>>
>>>> I had one of those. It was a Motorola.and it worked a treat. Can't
>>>> remember where I found it but I fitted it into my Austin Maxi in the
>>>> 1980s. It was made for a positive earth system so I had to insullate
>>>> the whole thing form the car chassis. My mates couldn't understand why
>>>> it took half a minute to warm up.
>>>>
>>>> I got 35 quid for it on ebay a few years back. A bloke wanted it for
>>>> his 1959 Hillman Minx he'd restored..
>>>
>>> **"Warm up"? Must have been a valve model. ALL SS ones are instant
>>> on. Except for the latest ones that are fitted with 15 microprocessors.
>>>
>>> You think I'm joking? I flattened the battery in my 2018 Subaru and,
>>> due to a fuck-up with jump starting the thing, I managed to shut down
>>> all the safety systems. I took it to my mechanic, who placed his
>>> OBD-II machine on the car. It reported the prescence of 27
>>> microprocessors.
>>
>> That's a low number by todays standards but that's unsurprising for a
>> Subaru. When I did the Holden Vectra training around 2003 or so that
>> model already had around that many.
>
> **Really. That surprises me. I had the in-laws' 2001 Vectra here for a
> bit, as they wanted it sold. It was less sophisticated than my VP
> Commodore (admittedly, optioned to Calais level). Unless, of course,
> they did a radical re-fit of the Vectra by 2003.
>

The ZC Vectra was a very different beast. It had all the fruit (TCS,
ESC, SRS, ABS etc etc) but it also had things like modules for each tail
light, headlight, door lock etc. The VP had bugger all computing power,
just an ECM and BCM basically. There were different BCM "levels" (for
instance high or low) depending on the luxury level of the vehicle but
in terms of computing power it had bugger all.

>>
>> BY
>>> my reckoning my Suby has about a billion times more computing power
>>> than a space shuttle.
>>>
>>
>> Not really. Each module contains it's own "computer" and they
>> communicate over the CAN-BUS. Many of these are typically pretty low
>> power in terms of computing power. There is one for pretty much
>> everything these days.
>
> **True enough. Bloody things are everywhere. They're so cheap and so
> powerful, manufacturers can't help themselves. When I built an
> intermittant wiper attachment for my Escort, I needed a small handful of
> discrete components (A UJT, an SCR, a potentiometer, a couple of caps
> and half a dozen resistors). Even back then it cost less than $15.00 to
> build. I betcha manufacturers use a dedicated micro for the job.

They do and with it comes issues. Like the bloke who attempted to wire
up some spot lights on his NP300 Navara and destroyed the IPDM - $300
module from Nissan plus labour...

On 7/07/2021 6:38 pm, keithr0 wrote:
> On 7/07/2021 8:31 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>
>> [Anecdote] One of my clients is a (recently retired) financial advisor. He would typically visit
>> me in a shitbox Merc SL450. Then, one day, he piqued my interest, when he rolled up in an Aston
>> Martin DB5 (British Racing Green - of course). He bought it back in 1970 for bugger-all. It was a
>> bit tired, but in good nick overall. He spent $75k doing it up. I checked the value on thing and
>> told him:
>>
>> "I betcha that DB5 has outperformed any investment you've ever made or advised your clients to
>> make."
>>
>> He agreed.
>
> The drummer from Pink Floyd bought a Ferrari 250GTO for 25K ponds with some of his earnings from
> "Dark side of the moon". Probably worth 1000 times that now.

Nick Mason's got quite a few collectable cars. His dad raced a big Bently (which Nick still has I
believe) so it's in his blood.
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification
in the DSM"
David Melville

This is not an email and hasn't been checked for viruses by any half-arsed self-promoting software.

On 13/07/2021 3:56 pm, Clocky wrote:
> On 13/07/2021 9:44 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> On 13/07/2021 11:22 am, Clocky wrote:
>>> On 12/07/2021 2:50 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>> On 12/07/2021 4:16 am, R Souls wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 5 Jul 2021 20:33:32 -0700 (PDT), Phil Allison
>>>>> <pallison49@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>>> ================
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've been cleaning out the store-room (aka: The garage). Look at
>>>>>>> what I
>>>>>>> found:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://imgur.com/dfEQnOh
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My very first power transistor (if you don't count the AC128 that
>>>>>>> came
>>>>>>> with my Philips Electronic Engineer kit). The mighty 2N301.
>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ** Remember them well, every 60s pushbutton car radio had one -
>>>>>> operating in class A with a choke load and a 16 ohm speaker.
>>>>>>     Usually mounted on a black anodised Al heatsink with no
>>>>>> insulators.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     One I worked on had special 12V supply valves in the RF stages.
>>>>>
>>>>> I had one of those. It was a Motorola.and it worked a treat. Can't
>>>>> remember where I found it but I fitted it into my Austin Maxi in the
>>>>> 1980s. It was made for a positive earth system so I had to insullate
>>>>> the whole thing form the car chassis. My mates couldn't understand why
>>>>> it took half a minute to warm up.
>>>>>
>>>>> I got 35 quid for it on ebay a few years back. A bloke wanted it for
>>>>> his 1959 Hillman Minx he'd restored..
>>>>
>>>> **"Warm up"? Must have been a valve model. ALL SS ones are instant
>>>> on. Except for the latest ones that are fitted with 15 microprocessors.
>>>>
>>>> You think I'm joking? I flattened the battery in my 2018 Subaru and,
>>>> due to a fuck-up with jump starting the thing, I managed to shut
>>>> down all the safety systems. I took it to my mechanic, who placed
>>>> his OBD-II machine on the car. It reported the prescence of 27
>>>> microprocessors.
>>>
>>> That's a low number by todays standards but that's unsurprising for a
>>> Subaru. When I did the Holden Vectra training around 2003 or so that
>>> model already had around that many.
>>
>> **Really. That surprises me. I had the in-laws' 2001 Vectra here for a
>> bit, as they wanted it sold. It was less sophisticated than my VP
>> Commodore (admittedly, optioned to Calais level). Unless, of course,
>> they did a radical re-fit of the Vectra by 2003.
>>
>
> The ZC Vectra was a very different beast. It had all the fruit (TCS,
> ESC, SRS, ABS etc etc) but it also had things like modules for each tail
> light, headlight, door lock etc. The VP had bugger all computing power,
> just an ECM and BCM basically. There were different BCM "levels" (for
> instance high or low) depending on the luxury level of the vehicle but
> in terms of computing power it had bugger all.
>
>>>
>>> BY
>>>> my reckoning my Suby has about a billion times more computing power
>>>> than a space shuttle.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Not really. Each module contains it's own "computer" and they
>>> communicate over the CAN-BUS. Many of these are typically pretty low
>>> power in terms of computing power. There is one for pretty much
>>> everything these days.
>>
>> **True enough. Bloody things are everywhere. They're so cheap and so
>> powerful, manufacturers can't help themselves. When I built an
>> intermittant wiper attachment for my Escort, I needed a small handful
>> of discrete components (A UJT, an SCR, a potentiometer, a couple of
>> caps and half a dozen resistors). Even back then it cost less than
>> $15.00 to build. I betcha manufacturers use a dedicated micro for the
>> job.
>
> They do and with it comes issues. Like the bloke who attempted to wire
> up some spot lights on his NP300 Navara and destroyed the IPDM - $300
> module from Nissan plus labour...

I hear that the Army is less than pleased with their Mercedes 4WDs. The
old Land Rovers could be fixed in the field with a set of spanners and a
hammer, the Mercs have to be towed back to base, and are bastards to fix
with all the electronics.

On 13/07/2021 6:57 pm, ~misfit~ wrote:
> On 7/07/2021 6:38 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>> On 7/07/2021 8:31 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>
>>> [Anecdote] One of my clients is a (recently retired) financial
>>> advisor. He would typically visit me in a shitbox Merc SL450. Then,
>>> one day, he piqued my interest, when he rolled up in an Aston Martin
>>> DB5 (British Racing Green - of course). He bought it back in 1970 for
>>> bugger-all. It was a bit tired, but in good nick overall. He spent
>>> $75k doing it up. I checked the value on thing and told him:
>>>
>>> "I betcha that DB5 has outperformed any investment you've ever made
>>> or advised your clients to make."
>>>
>>> He agreed.
>>
>> The drummer from Pink Floyd bought a Ferrari 250GTO for 25K ponds with
>> some of his earnings from "Dark side of the moon". Probably worth 1000
>> times that now.
>
> Nick Mason's got quite a few collectable cars. His dad raced a big
> Bently (which Nick still has I believe) so it's in his blood.

https://carwitter.com/visit-nick-masons-car-collection/

On 14/7/21 3:58 pm, keithr0 wrote:
> On 13/07/2021 3:56 pm, Clocky wrote:
>> On 13/07/2021 9:44 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>> On 13/07/2021 11:22 am, Clocky wrote:
>>>> On 12/07/2021 2:50 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>> On 12/07/2021 4:16 am, R Souls wrote:
>>>>>> On Mon, 5 Jul 2021 20:33:32 -0700 (PDT), Phil Allison
>>>>>> <pallison49@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>>>> ================
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I've been cleaning out the store-room (aka: The garage). Look at
>>>>>>>> what I
>>>>>>>> found:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://imgur.com/dfEQnOh
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My very first power transistor (if you don't count the AC128
>>>>>>>> that came
>>>>>>>> with my Philips Electronic Engineer kit). The mighty 2N301.
>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ** Remember them well, every 60s pushbutton car radio had one -
>>>>>>> operating in class A with a choke load and a 16 ohm speaker.
>>>>>>>     Usually mounted on a black anodised Al heatsink with no
>>>>>>> insulators.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     One I worked on had special 12V supply valves in the RF stages.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I had one of those. It was a Motorola.and it worked a treat. Can't
>>>>>> remember where I found it but I fitted it into my Austin Maxi in the
>>>>>> 1980s. It was made for a positive earth system so I had to insullate
>>>>>> the whole thing form the car chassis. My mates couldn't understand
>>>>>> why
>>>>>> it took half a minute to warm up.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I got 35 quid for it on ebay a few years back. A bloke wanted it for
>>>>>> his 1959 Hillman Minx he'd restored..
>>>>>
>>>>> **"Warm up"? Must have been a valve model. ALL SS ones are instant
>>>>> on. Except for the latest ones that are fitted with 15
>>>>> microprocessors.
>>>>>
>>>>> You think I'm joking? I flattened the battery in my 2018 Subaru
>>>>> and, due to a fuck-up with jump starting the thing, I managed to
>>>>> shut down all the safety systems. I took it to my mechanic, who
>>>>> placed his OBD-II machine on the car. It reported the prescence of
>>>>> 27 microprocessors.
>>>>
>>>> That's a low number by todays standards but that's unsurprising for
>>>> a Subaru. When I did the Holden Vectra training around 2003 or so
>>>> that model already had around that many.
>>>
>>> **Really. That surprises me. I had the in-laws' 2001 Vectra here for
>>> a bit, as they wanted it sold. It was less sophisticated than my VP
>>> Commodore (admittedly, optioned to Calais level). Unless, of course,
>>> they did a radical re-fit of the Vectra by 2003.
>>>
>>
>> The ZC Vectra was a very different beast. It had all the fruit (TCS,
>> ESC, SRS, ABS etc etc) but it also had things like modules for each
>> tail light, headlight, door lock etc. The VP had bugger all computing
>> power, just an ECM and BCM basically. There were different BCM
>> "levels" (for instance high or low) depending on the luxury level of
>> the vehicle but in terms of computing power it had bugger all.
>>
>>>>
>>>> BY
>>>>> my reckoning my Suby has about a billion times more computing power
>>>>> than a space shuttle.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Not really. Each module contains it's own "computer" and they
>>>> communicate over the CAN-BUS. Many of these are typically pretty low
>>>> power in terms of computing power. There is one for pretty much
>>>> everything these days.
>>>
>>> **True enough. Bloody things are everywhere. They're so cheap and so
>>> powerful, manufacturers can't help themselves. When I built an
>>> intermittant wiper attachment for my Escort, I needed a small handful
>>> of discrete components (A UJT, an SCR, a potentiometer, a couple of
>>> caps and half a dozen resistors). Even back then it cost less than
>>> $15.00 to build. I betcha manufacturers use a dedicated micro for the
>>> job.
>>
>> They do and with it comes issues. Like the bloke who attempted to wire
>> up some spot lights on his NP300 Navara and destroyed the IPDM - $300
>> module from Nissan plus labour...
>
> I hear that the Army is less than pleased with their Mercedes 4WDs. The
> old Land Rovers could be fixed in the field with a set of spanners and a
> hammer, the Mercs have to be towed back to base, and are bastards to fix
> with all the electronics.

Yeah, I wondered how that would turn out in the end. It's not like the
Australian Army had much choice in the matter. The old Defenders dated
from the early Defender days with the youngest being more than a decade
old. The Benz has more capabilities but, as you say, the electronic will
be problematical, especially so when they age.

--

Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
> On 14/7/21 3:58 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>>
>> I hear that the Army is less than pleased with their Mercedes 4WDs. The
>> old Land Rovers could be fixed in the field with a set of spanners and a
>> hammer, the Mercs have to be towed back to base, and are bastards to fix
>> with all the electronics.
>
> Yeah, I wondered how that would turn out in the end. It's not like the
> Australian Army had much choice in the matter. The old Defenders dated
> from the early Defender days with the youngest being more than a decade
> old. The Benz has more capabilities but, as you say, the electronic will
> be problematical, especially so when they age.

I heard that the G Wagons that the "department of name changes"
(DELWP, do firefighting in the Vic forrest areas) bought cut out
when their computer detects smoke. Which could be, umm,
inconvenient.

Among other problems:
https://www.weeklytimesnow.com.au/news/national/victorian-delwp-attacked-by-awu-over-mercedesbenz-g-wagons/news-story/e687df05bcdabb6f5df57fc04db7a174?nk=a94d6ad6f572cd443471d16fc4383a0f-1626306024

--
__ __
#_ < |\| |< _#

On 15/07/2021 7:45 am, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
> Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>> On 14/7/21 3:58 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>>>
>>> I hear that the Army is less than pleased with their Mercedes 4WDs. The
>>> old Land Rovers could be fixed in the field with a set of spanners and a
>>> hammer, the Mercs have to be towed back to base, and are bastards to fix
>>> with all the electronics.
>>
>> Yeah, I wondered how that would turn out in the end. It's not like the
>> Australian Army had much choice in the matter. The old Defenders dated
>> from the early Defender days with the youngest being more than a decade
>> old. The Benz has more capabilities but, as you say, the electronic will
>> be problematical, especially so when they age.
>
> I heard that the G Wagons that the "department of name changes"
> (DELWP, do firefighting in the Vic forrest areas) bought cut out
> when their computer detects smoke. Which could be, umm,
> inconvenient.
>
> Among other problems:
> https://www.weeklytimesnow.com.au/news/national/victorian-delwp-attacked-by-awu-over-mercedesbenz-g-wagons/news-story/e687df05bcdabb6f5df57fc04db7a174?nk=a94d6ad6f572cd443471d16fc4383a0f-1626306024
>
That was 4 years ago !! Also did you check the response from a user ??

On 15/07/2021 11:45 am, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
> Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>> On 14/7/21 3:58 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>>>
>>> I hear that the Army is less than pleased with their Mercedes 4WDs. The
>>> old Land Rovers could be fixed in the field with a set of spanners and a
>>> hammer, the Mercs have to be towed back to base, and are bastards to fix
>>> with all the electronics.
>>
>> Yeah, I wondered how that would turn out in the end. It's not like the
>> Australian Army had much choice in the matter. The old Defenders dated
>> from the early Defender days with the youngest being more than a decade
>> old. The Benz has more capabilities but, as you say, the electronic will
>> be problematical, especially so when they age.
>
> I heard that the G Wagons that the "department of name changes"
> (DELWP, do firefighting in the Vic forrest areas) bought cut out
> when their computer detects smoke. Which could be, umm,
> inconvenient.
>
> Among other problems:
> https://www.weeklytimesnow.com.au/news/national/victorian-delwp-attacked-by-awu-over-mercedesbenz-g-wagons/news-story/e687df05bcdabb6f5df57fc04db7a174?nk=a94d6ad6f572cd443471d16fc4383a0f-1626306024

As someone who calls himself a computer nerd you'd think you'd know what parts of URLs aren't
needed. In the above case it's the ?nk=a94d6ad6f572cd443471d16fc4383a0f-1626306024 on the end. Not
only unnecessary but can also be used to track where visitors got the link from. (Which is why I
remove it or anything similar from URLS before using them in a browser.)

<https://www.weeklytimesnow.com.au/news/national/victorian-delwp-attacked-by-awu-over-mercedesbenz-g-wagons/news-story/e687df05bcdabb6f5df57fc04db7a174>
gets you to the same page just fine.
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification
in the DSM"
David Melville

This is not an email and hasn't been checked for viruses by any half-arsed self-promoting software.

~misfit~ <shaun.at.pukekohe@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 15/07/2021 11:45 am, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
>> Among other problems:
>> https://www.weeklytimesnow.com.au/news/national/victorian-delwp-attacked-by-awu-over-mercedesbenz-g-wagons/news-story/e687df05bcdabb6f5df57fc04db7a174?nk=a94d6ad6f572cd443471d16fc4383a0f-1626306024
>
> As someone who calls himself a computer nerd you'd think you'd
> know what parts of URLs aren't needed. In the above case it's the
> ?nk=a94d6ad6f572cd443471d16fc4383a0f-1626306024 on the end.

Alright alright, bitchy. I didn't see the "?" amongst the big long
hash that _is_ required for the URL to work, and frankly I don't
intend to study damn URLs like some obsessive just for the sake of
one quick post. Setting up an automatic process to always strip
anything after a "?" would obviously break other URLs.

> Not only unnecessary but can also be used to track where visitors
> got the link from. (Which is why I remove it or anything similar
> from URLS before using them in a browser.)

Well good for you. Make sure you also tell it to all the fools who
post long links to Ebay and the like, sometimes even using a URL
shortener service, without realising that they can be trimmed down
to.
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/[item number]

_I_ don't because I accept that not everybody can figure it out or
just be bothered to do it. Buy if you're going to pick on me for
_that_ one tracking parameter in the middle of a big long string of
identical-looking noise, then I expect you to tell those other URL
posters to rot in hell!

And while we're being bitchy, you had nothing to say about the Merc
4x4s, so why quote all that stuff above the link?

--
__ __
#_ < |\| |< _#

Rheilly Phoull <rheilly@bigslong.com> wrote:
> On 15/07/2021 7:45 am, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
>> Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>>> On 14/7/21 3:58 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I hear that the Army is less than pleased with their Mercedes 4WDs. The
>>>> old Land Rovers could be fixed in the field with a set of spanners and a
>>>> hammer, the Mercs have to be towed back to base, and are bastards to fix
>>>> with all the electronics.
>>>
>>> Yeah, I wondered how that would turn out in the end. It's not like the
>>> Australian Army had much choice in the matter. The old Defenders dated
>>> from the early Defender days with the youngest being more than a decade
>>> old. The Benz has more capabilities but, as you say, the electronic will
>>> be problematical, especially so when they age.
>>
>> I heard that the G Wagons that the "department of name changes"
>> (DELWP, do firefighting in the Vic forrest areas) bought cut out
>> when their computer detects smoke. Which could be, umm,
>> inconvenient.
>>
>> Among other problems:
>> https://www.weeklytimesnow.com.au/news/national/victorian-delwp-attacked-by-awu-over-mercedesbenz-g-wagons/news-story/e687df05bcdabb6f5df57fc04db7a174?nk=a94d6ad6f572cd443471d16fc4383a0f-1626306024
>>
> That was 4 years ago !!

So what?

> Also did you check the response from a user ??

No, I don't even enable the Javascript required to show comments on
sites like that because I don't think they're worth much coming
from random readers. I've never driven one, so you believe who you
like. Personally I wouldn't like the idea of a vehicle deciding for
itself to cut out in the middle of a firefighting operation, where
it might be required to escape from a dangerous situation. If they
have to do that in order to protect the gearbox, then that just
suggests to me that the gearbox isn't up to the job. But I only
know what I hear and read.

--
__ __
#_ < |\| |< _#

On 17/07/2021 8:24 am, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
> Rheilly Phoull <rheilly@bigslong.com> wrote:
>> On 15/07/2021 7:45 am, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
>>> Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>>>> On 14/7/21 3:58 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I hear that the Army is less than pleased with their Mercedes 4WDs. The
>>>>> old Land Rovers could be fixed in the field with a set of spanners and a
>>>>> hammer, the Mercs have to be towed back to base, and are bastards to fix
>>>>> with all the electronics.
>>>>
>>>> Yeah, I wondered how that would turn out in the end. It's not like the
>>>> Australian Army had much choice in the matter. The old Defenders dated
>>>> from the early Defender days with the youngest being more than a decade
>>>> old. The Benz has more capabilities but, as you say, the electronic will
>>>> be problematical, especially so when they age.
>>>
>>> I heard that the G Wagons that the "department of name changes"
>>> (DELWP, do firefighting in the Vic forrest areas) bought cut out
>>> when their computer detects smoke. Which could be, umm,
>>> inconvenient.
>>>
>>> Among other problems:
>>> https://www.weeklytimesnow.com.au/news/national/victorian-delwp-attacked-by-awu-over-mercedesbenz-g-wagons/news-story/e687df05bcdabb6f5df57fc04db7a174?nk=a94d6ad6f572cd443471d16fc4383a0f-1626306024
>>>
>> That was 4 years ago !!
>
> So what?
>
>> Also did you check the response from a user ??
>
> No, I don't even enable the Javascript required to show comments on
> sites like that because I don't think they're worth much coming
> from random readers. I've never driven one, so you believe who you
> like. Personally I wouldn't like the idea of a vehicle deciding for
> itself to cut out in the middle of a firefighting operation, where
> it might be required to escape from a dangerous situation. If they
> have to do that in order to protect the gearbox, then that just
> suggests to me that the gearbox isn't up to the job. But I only
> know what I hear and read.
>
So in 4 years there are always improvements made, so you say you are not
a random reader but an expert on vehicles ( which I notice you know shit
about 4wd vehicles). Don't judge from newsgroups, go and drive one, the
mercs are leaders in the game. The g wagon is the choice of the military.

On 17/07/2021 8:08 am, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
> ~misfit~ <shaun.at.pukekohe@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 15/07/2021 11:45 am, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
>>> Among other problems:
>>> https://www.weeklytimesnow.com.au/news/national/victorian-delwp-attacked-by-awu-over-mercedesbenz-g-wagons/news-story/e687df05bcdabb6f5df57fc04db7a174?nk=a94d6ad6f572cd443471d16fc4383a0f-1626306024
>>
>> As someone who calls himself a computer nerd you'd think you'd
>> know what parts of URLs aren't needed. In the above case it's the
>> ?nk=a94d6ad6f572cd443471d16fc4383a0f-1626306024 on the end.
>
> Alright alright, bitchy. I didn't see the "?" amongst the big long
> hash that _is_ required for the URL to work, and frankly I don't
> intend to study damn URLs like some obsessive just for the sake of
> one quick post. Setting up an automatic process to always strip
> anything after a "?" would obviously break other URLs.
>
>> Not only unnecessary but can also be used to track where visitors
>> got the link from. (Which is why I remove it or anything similar
>> from URLS before using them in a browser.)
>
> Well good for you. Make sure you also tell it to all the fools who
> post long links to Ebay and the like, sometimes even using a URL
> shortener service, without realising that they can be trimmed down
> to.
> https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/[item number]
>
> _I_ don't because I accept that not everybody can figure it out or
> just be bothered to do it. Buy if you're going to pick on me for
> _that_ one tracking parameter in the middle of a big long string of
> identical-looking noise, then I expect you to tell those other URL
> posters to rot in hell!
>
> And while we're being bitchy, you had nothing to say about the Merc
> 4x4s, so why quote all that stuff above the link?
>
Because wankers like you are a pain in the butt!!