On 12/05/2022 12:48, Champ wrote:
> On Wed, 11 May 2022 18:52:59 +0100, siwilson
> <siwilson@nodamnspam.hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 11/05/2022 13:31, Champ wrote:
>>> On Wed, 11 May 2022 09:49:50 +0100, YTC#1 <bdp@ytc1-spambin.co.uk>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Do people still answer land lines? I unplugged mine in 2015
>>>
>>> Yes. Much prefer to use (to call or recieve) as the quality is much
>>> better.
>
>> Not any more it ain't Grandad. Whatsapp etc. use much better quality
>> codecs[1] than landlines. Some mobiles/operators implement HD calling as
>> well.
>
> That's not my experience, comparing landline with actual GSM mobile
> telephony. I can rarely be arsed with using WhatsApp for a voice
> calls (guess I am a grandad, after all). Loads of people here (on the
> IoM) use Facebook Messenger for voice calls, which (again, in my
> experience) is of vary variable quality
>

Well, if you will live on a remote island........

--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly"
http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/
There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/

On 11/05/2022 13:30, Champ wrote:
> On Tue, 10 May 2022 19:18:11 -0000 (UTC), wessie
> <willnotwork@tesco.net> wrote:
>
>> I have had texts delivered to a landline voicemail
>
> Reminds me of when I was on stationery in traffic on the M25 on the
> way to Cane's (formerly of this parish)

At the risk of Dave Brown asking me to choose a roundabout, I'll mention
here that a former colleague at Tarmac whose idea of the plurals of
quarry and lorry was quarry's and lorry's was the one who named the
fields in various files to be used for a project to change the way we
were printing. Keeping seeing "stationary" referring to the stuff that
office suppliers sell was sufficient to pollute my brain so when the
prog covers band I was with started doing "Stationary Traveller", I had
to convince myself that that was the correct spelling and it wasn't a
song referring to a travelling salesman in office supplies.

Of course, Champ could have been stopped on a piece of paper and just
set this up as a trap.

On 12/05/2022 16:15, Mike Fleming wrote:
> On 11/05/2022 13:30, Champ wrote:
>> On Tue, 10 May 2022 19:18:11 -0000 (UTC), wessie
>> <willnotwork@tesco.net> wrote:
>>
>>> I have had texts delivered to a landline voicemail
>>
>> Reminds me of when I was on stationery in traffic on the M25 on the
>> way to Cane's (formerly of this parish)
>
> At the risk of Dave Brown asking me to choose a roundabout, I'll mention
<snip>

>
> Of course, Champ could have been stopped on a piece of paper and just
> set this up as a trap.

As he used "on", I suspect he did.

--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly"
http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/
There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/

Champ wrote:
> siwilson wrote:
> >On 11/05/2022 13:31, Champ wrote:
> >> YTC#1 wrote:
> >>> Do people still answer land lines? I unplugged mine in 2015
> >>
> >> Yes. Much prefer to use (to call or recieve) as the quality is much
> >> better.
>
> >Not any more it ain't Grandad. Whatsapp etc. use much better quality
> >codecs[1] than landlines. Some mobiles/operators implement HD calling as
> >well.
>
> That's not my experience, comparing landline with actual GSM mobile
> telephony.

GSM? In 2022? If I didn't already know where you live, I'd ask which decade you're living in.

Everything is voice over data these days. Everything.

On Thu, 12 May 2022 16:15:18 +0100, Mike Fleming <mike@tauzero.co.uk>
wrote:

>On 11/05/2022 13:30, Champ wrote:
>> On Tue, 10 May 2022 19:18:11 -0000 (UTC), wessie
>> <willnotwork@tesco.net> wrote:
>>
>>> I have had texts delivered to a landline voicemail
>>
>> Reminds me of when I was stationery in traffic on the M25 on the
>> way to Cane's (formerly of this parish)
>
>At the risk of Dave Brown asking me to choose a roundabout, I'll mention
>here that a former colleague at Tarmac whose idea of the plurals of
>quarry and lorry was quarry's and lorry's was the one who named the
>fields in various files to be used for a project to change the way we
>were printing. Keeping seeing "stationary" referring to the stuff that
>office suppliers sell was sufficient to pollute my brain so when the
>prog covers band I was with started doing "Stationary Traveller", I had
>to convince myself that that was the correct spelling and it wasn't a
>song referring to a travelling salesman in office supplies.
>
>Of course, Champ could have been stopped on a piece of paper and just
>set this up as a trap.

No. As I typed it, I thought "I know there's two spellings for this
word, one meaning still and the other meaning paper etc...but I really
can't be arsed to look up the correct one"
--
Champ
neal at champ dot org dot uk

I don't know, but I been told
You never slow down, you never grow old

On Thu, 12 May 2022 14:12:36 -0700 (PDT), ogden <eldaifo@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Champ wrote:

>> That's not my experience, comparing landline with actual GSM mobile
>> telephony.

>GSM? In 2022? If I didn't already know where you live, I'd ask which decade you're living in.
>
>Everything is voice over data these days. Everything.

Really? oh

I mean, I know mobiles have used 'digital' (as opposed to analogue)
since the 90s, but I didn't know they used VoIP like the various
messenger services

Where's Burnt when you need him?
--
Champ
neal at champ dot org dot uk

I don't know, but I been told
You never slow down, you never grow old

Champ wrote:

> ogden wrote:
>
>> Champ wrote:
>
>>> That's not my experience, comparing landline with actual GSM mobile
>>> telephony.
>
>> GSM? In 2022? If I didn't already know where you live, I'd ask which decade you're living in.
>> Everything is voice over data these days. Everything.
>
> Really? oh
>
> I mean, I know mobiles have used 'digital' (as opposed to analogue)
> since the 90s, but I didn't know they used VoIP like the various
> messenger services

4G and 5G will use packet-switched VoLTE if phone and network both support it,
otherwise they'll drop to circuit-switched 3G or 2G for voice.

On Friday, 13 May 2022 at 08:07:15 UTC+1, Champ wrote:
> On Thu, 12 May 2022 14:12:36 -0700 (PDT), ogden <eld...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >Champ wrote:
>
> >> That's not my experience, comparing landline with actual GSM mobile
> >> telephony.
>
> >GSM? In 2022? If I didn't already know where you live, I'd ask which decade you're living in.
> >
> >Everything is voice over data these days. Everything.
> Really? oh
>
> I mean, I know mobiles have used 'digital' (as opposed to analogue)
> since the 90s, but I didn't know they used VoIP like the various
> messenger services
>
> Where's Burnt when you need him?

Forgetting that he ever worked.

GSM was digital, albeit a rather old CODEC (That's the FR variant). Later they made a HR
(Half Rate) variant that wasn't *quite* so good but doubled capacity. They also enhanced
the FR.

With the introduction of 4G we moved away from that family of CODECs towards VOIP
(albeit under the name 'Voice Over LTE'), this continued with 5G. However in those
areas that have no 4G service and you fall back to 3G (or 2G) you'll still use the legacy
GSM CODECs. Unless as (I think) Bruce pointed out you use Voice over Wifi /
Wifi Calling- which I always thought was great for the Telco; the 'radio' leg of the call
is handled by someone else's infrastructure and all you have to do is switch it (and most
importantly) bill it.

I think, from memory, that landlines are also digital once the telephone line hits the exchange
and the voice is converted to PCM (as I think it has been since 'System X' was introduced in
the 70s/80s).

Still ancient history for me and I'm more concerned now about why my french beans aren't
germinating.

On Friday, 13 May 2022 at 09:42:38 UTC+1, Andy Burns wrote:

> 4G and 5G will use packet-switched VoLTE if phone and network both support it,
> otherwise they'll drop to circuit-switched 3G or 2G for voice.

Good point on the support needing to be in place on the Network. I think virtually
all devices now support this (and have done for years). I think at least in the UK
(and probably almost everywhere else) that all 4/5G networks support and have done
for some years (5+ in the case of 4G ?)

On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 3:04:55 AM UTC-4, Champ wrote:

> No. As I typed it, I thought "I know there's two spellings for this
> word, one meaning still and the other meaning paper etc...but I really
> can't be arsed to look up the correct one"

Stationary to mean not moving has an A from the middle of car, stationery to mean office supplies has an E from the middle of pen.

On 13/05/2022 12:50, Ben Blaney wrote:
>
> Stationary to mean not moving has an A from the middle of car, stationery to mean office supplies has an E from the middle of pen.

Nice. I'll add that to the little mental box where I keep "there's a rat
in the separator" (©️ Ivan D. Reid)

--
Eddie eddie@deguello.org

On 13/05/2022 12:50, Ben Blaney wrote:
> On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 3:04:55 AM UTC-4, Champ wrote:
>
>> No. As I typed it, I thought "I know there's two spellings for this
>> word, one meaning still and the other meaning paper etc...but I really
>> can't be arsed to look up the correct one"
>
> Stationary to mean not moving has an A from the middle of car, stationery to mean office supplies has an E from the middle of pen.

And the start of Envelope.

--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly"
http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/
There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/

On 13/05/2022 12:33, Stephen Packer wrote:
> On Friday, 13 May 2022 at 09:42:38 UTC+1, Andy Burns wrote:
>
>> 4G and 5G will use packet-switched VoLTE if phone and network both support it,
>> otherwise they'll drop to circuit-switched 3G or 2G for voice.
>
> Good point on the support needing to be in place on the Network. I think virtually
> all devices now support this (and have done for years). I think at least in the UK

Well, that is settled then.
He isn't in the UK. :-)

--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly"
http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/
There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/

On Friday, 13 May 2022 at 16:40:26 UTC+1, YTC#1 wrote:
> On 13/05/2022 12:33, Stephen Packer wrote:
> > On Friday, 13 May 2022 at 09:42:38 UTC+1, Andy Burns wrote:
> >
> >> 4G and 5G will use packet-switched VoLTE if phone and network both support it,
> >> otherwise they'll drop to circuit-switched 3G or 2G for voice.
> >
> > Good point on the support needing to be in place on the Network. I think virtually
> > all devices now support this (and have done for years). I think at least in the UK
> Well, that is settled then.
> He isn't in the UK. :-)

If we're talking about Champ then I'm fairly certain it's equally applicable to the Isle of Man
but I've no direct experience there.

On 13/05/2022 13:29, Stephen Packer wrote:

>
>Still ancient history for me and I'm more concerned now about why my french beans aren't
>germinating.

That'll be down to the 5G I suspect ;-)

--
Geoff

On 13/05/2022 18:26, Stephen Packer wrote:
> On Friday, 13 May 2022 at 16:40:26 UTC+1, YTC#1 wrote:
>> On 13/05/2022 12:33, Stephen Packer wrote:
>>> On Friday, 13 May 2022 at 09:42:38 UTC+1, Andy Burns wrote:
>>>
>>>> 4G and 5G will use packet-switched VoLTE if phone and network both support it,
>>>> otherwise they'll drop to circuit-switched 3G or 2G for voice.
>>>
>>> Good point on the support needing to be in place on the Network. I think virtually
>>> all devices now support this (and have done for years). I think at least in the UK
>> Well, that is settled then.
>> He isn't in the UK. :-)
>
> If we're talking about Champ then I'm fairly certain it's equally applicable to the Isle of Man
> but I've no direct experience there.

I think we are still following that trail.
And yes I was being pedantic about the IoM not being part of the UK :-)

--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly"
http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/
There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/

On 13/05/2022 12:50, Ben Blaney wrote:
> On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 3:04:55 AM UTC-4, Champ wrote:
>
>> No. As I typed it, I thought "I know there's two spellings for this
>> word, one meaning still and the other meaning paper etc...but I really
>> can't be arsed to look up the correct one"
>
> Stationary to mean not moving has an A from the middle of car, stationery to mean office supplies has an E from the middle of pen.

And stationers supply stationery. They'd have to be "ars"es to supply
stationary.

On 13/05/2022 14:28, Eddie wrote:
> On 13/05/2022 12:50, Ben Blaney wrote:
>>
>> Stationary to mean not moving has an A from the middle of car,
>> stationery to mean office supplies has an E from the middle of pen.
>
> Nice. I'll add that to the little mental box where I keep "there's a rat
> in the separator" (©️ Ivan D. Reid)

That's a good one - I use "the two As separate the two Es".

Weirdly, one should seize "I before E except after C" and give it a good
shake.

On Fri, 13 May 2022 04:50:43 -0700 (PDT), Ben Blaney
<benblaney@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 3:04:55 AM UTC-4, Champ wrote:
>
>> No. As I typed it, I thought "I know there's two spellings for this
>> word, one meaning still and the other meaning paper etc...but I really
>> can't be arsed to look up the correct one"

>Stationary to mean not moving has an A from the middle of car, stationery to mean office supplies has an E from the middle of pen.

Marevellous. Thank you. I'm indebted
--
Champ
neal at champ dot org dot uk

I don't know, but I been told
You never slow down, you never grow old

On Sat, 14 May 2022 01:48:58 +0100, Mike Fleming <mike@tauzero.co.uk>
wrote:

>On 13/05/2022 14:28, Eddie wrote:
>> On 13/05/2022 12:50, Ben Blaney wrote:
>>>
>>> Stationary to mean not moving has an A from the middle of car,
>>> stationery to mean office supplies has an E from the middle of pen.
>>
>> Nice. I'll add that to the little mental box where I keep "there's a rat
>> in the separator" (©? Ivan D. Reid)

>That's a good one - I use "the two As separate the two Es".

eh? There's only one 'e' in separator
--
Champ
neal at champ dot org dot uk

I don't know, but I been told
You never slow down, you never grow old

On Fri, 13 May 2022 10:26:51 -0700 (PDT), Stephen Packer
<stephen.packer@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Friday, 13 May 2022 at 16:40:26 UTC+1, YTC#1 wrote:
>> On 13/05/2022 12:33, Stephen Packer wrote:
>> > On Friday, 13 May 2022 at 09:42:38 UTC+1, Andy Burns wrote:
>> >
>> >> 4G and 5G will use packet-switched VoLTE if phone and network both support it,
>> >> otherwise they'll drop to circuit-switched 3G or 2G for voice.
>> >
>> > Good point on the support needing to be in place on the Network. I think virtually
>> > all devices now support this (and have done for years). I think at least in the UK
>> Well, that is settled then.
>> He isn't in the UK. :-)

>If we're talking about Champ then I'm fairly certain it's equally applicable to the Isle of Man
>but I've no direct experience there.

IoM has had 4G & 5G for years
--
Champ
neal at champ dot org dot uk

I don't know, but I been told
You never slow down, you never grow old

On Fri, 13 May 2022 04:29:35 -0700 (PDT), Stephen Packer
<stephen.packer@gmail.com> wrote:

>> >Everything is voice over data these days. Everything.
>> Really? oh

>> Where's Burnt when you need him?

>Forgetting that he ever worked.

heh

Good

<snip historical tech detail>

>Still ancient history for me and I'm more concerned now about why my french beans aren't
>germinating.

Funny how one's priorities change, isn't it.
--
Champ
neal at champ dot org dot uk

I don't know, but I been told
You never slow down, you never grow old

On 14/05/2022 12:47, Champ wrote:
> On Sat, 14 May 2022 01:48:58 +0100, Mike Fleming <mike@tauzero.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> On 13/05/2022 14:28, Eddie wrote:
>>>
>>> Nice. I'll add that to the little mental box where I keep "there's a rat
>>> in the separator" (©? Ivan D. Reid)
>
>> That's a good one - I use "the two As separate the two Es".
>
> eh? There's only one 'e' in separator

That's what I thought initially, but ... there are two Es in separate.

--
Eddie eddie@deguello.org

On 14/05/2022 15:52, Eddie wrote:
> On 14/05/2022 12:47, Champ wrote:
>> On Sat, 14 May 2022 01:48:58 +0100, Mike Fleming <mike@tauzero.co.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 13/05/2022 14:28, Eddie wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Nice. I'll add that to the little mental box where I keep "there's a
>>>> rat
>>>> in the separator" (©? Ivan D. Reid)
>>
>>> That's a good one - I use "the two As separate the two Es".
>>
>> eh?  There's only one 'e' in separator
>
> That's what I thought initially, but ... there are two Es in separate.

Yes, and one can reverse engineer other words starting "separat".

On 14/05/2022 12:53, Champ wrote:
> On Fri, 13 May 2022 10:26:51 -0700 (PDT), Stephen Packer
> <stephen.packer@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Friday, 13 May 2022 at 16:40:26 UTC+1, YTC#1 wrote:
>>> On 13/05/2022 12:33, Stephen Packer wrote:
>>>> On Friday, 13 May 2022 at 09:42:38 UTC+1, Andy Burns wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> 4G and 5G will use packet-switched VoLTE if phone and network both support it,
>>>>> otherwise they'll drop to circuit-switched 3G or 2G for voice.
>>>>
>>>> Good point on the support needing to be in place on the Network. I think virtually
>>>> all devices now support this (and have done for years). I think at least in the UK
>>> Well, that is settled then.
>>> He isn't in the UK. :-)
>
>> If we're talking about Champ then I'm fairly certain it's equally applicable to the Isle of Man
>> but I've no direct experience there.
>
> IoM has had 4G & 5G for years

The 5G must be faulty, you hardly got any Covid cases.