I see my phone has the ability with a proper adaptor to connect by ethernet
through my network. What would be the advantage and what would I do with
it?
--
<Bill>

Brought to you from Anchorage, Alaska

In article <j9uct3F3faqU1@mid.individual.net>, Bill Bradshaw
<bradshaw@gci.net> wrote:

> I see my phone has the ability with a proper adaptor to connect by ethernet
> through my network. What would be the advantage and what would I do with
> it?

none, assuming wifi is available. if wifi is not available and wired
ethernet is, then wired is your only option if you want to connect.

On 2022-03-22 9:47 a.m., Bill Bradshaw wrote:
> I see my phone has the ability with a proper adaptor to connect by ethernet
> through my network. What would be the advantage and what would I do with
> it?

What kind of phone making what kind of connection?

Bill,

>I see my phone has the ability with a proper adaptor to connect by ethernet
>through my network. What would be the advantage and what would I do with
>it?

That fully depends on the phone in question.

There are a number of things your phone could do with a connection to your
ethernet. Ranging from exchanging files with one of the computers on that
local network upto perhaps making calls thru the internet.

But as Alan tried to convey, without knowing which specific phone you have
(make and model) how do you imagine we could know know what the heck its
capable of ?

Also, don't phones like that normally come with a users manual, or at least
with an URL where you can download such a users manual from ? That would
be the first place I would look for such information.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

In article <t1d1d2$95f$1@gioia.aioe.org>, R.Wieser
<address@not.available> wrote:

> >I see my phone has the ability with a proper adaptor to connect by ethernet
> >through my network. What would be the advantage and what would I do with
> >it?
>
> That fully depends on the phone in question.

it does not.

> There are a number of things your phone could do with a connection to your
> ethernet. Ranging from exchanging files with one of the computers on that
> local network upto perhaps making calls thru the internet.

all of that can easily be done via wifi, without any hassle of wires.

the only time wired ethernet is useful on a phone is if wifi is
unavailable, but even then, that's not always true since some tasks,
such as exchanging files, can be done directly between devices via
wifi.

> But as Alan tried to convey, without knowing which specific phone you have
> (make and model) how do you imagine we could know know what the heck its
> capable of ?

he said it's capable of wired ethernet, which is what matters for his
question.

nospam wrote:

>> That fully depends on the phone in question.
>
> it does not.

I agree with nospam that it doesn't matter as long as it's a recent Android.

If Alan Baker or Rudy Weiser think otherwise, then they need to show
something called a 'fact' that indicates why they think that is so.

>> There are a number of things your phone could do with a connection to your
>> ethernet. Ranging from exchanging files with one of the computers on that
>> local network upto perhaps making calls thru the internet.
>
> all of that can easily be done via wifi, without any hassle of wires.

Files can be exchanged over USB (MTP or PTP) or over Wi-Fi (HTTP, SMB,
WebDav, FTP, Kies, KDE Connect, Nitroshare, etc.) or Bluetooth or even ad
hoc protocols.

> the only time wired ethernet is useful on a phone is if wifi is
> unavailable, but even then, that's not always true since some tasks,
> such as exchanging files, can be done directly between devices via
> wifi.

See ad hoc above.
>> But as Alan tried to convey, without knowing which specific phone you have
>> (make and model) how do you imagine we could know know what the heck its
>> capable of ?
>
> he said it's capable of wired ethernet, which is what matters for his
> question.

I'll agree with nospam when he's right (and disagree when he's wrong).
In this case, nospam is right.

If Alan Baker or Rudy Weiser think otherwise, then they need to show
something called a 'fact' that indicates why they think that is so.

On 2022-03-22 17:47, Bill Bradshaw wrote:
> I see my phone has the ability with a proper adaptor to connect by ethernet
> through my network. What would be the advantage and what would I do with
> it?

I have never seen that, but it could be an USB to Ethernet adapter.
Probably your phone has some sort of documentation explaining the feature.

For example, I can connect my phone to my laptop computer (Linux), and
have the phone provide Internet connectivity via an "ethernet" emulation
layer. A tethering mode, instead of setting a wifi hot spot. Advantages
are that the phone receives power, and privacy.

If that is not it, the phone might connect to an existing ethernet
connection and get connectivity instead of using wifi or data.
Advantages would again be getting power and privacy.

Just read your phone documentation on that feature.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 3/22/2022 9:47 AM, Bill Bradshaw wrote:
> I see my phone has the ability with a proper adaptor to connect by ethernet
> through my network. What would be the advantage and what would I do with
> it?

Used to be that some hotels would have wired Ethernet connections but no
Wi-Fi and there still may be some situations where only wired Ethernet
is available due to security reasons. I was in such a hotel in China and
I had brought along a Wi-Fi travel router that I plugged into the
Ethernet port in the hotel so we all had access. And of course you want
to use a VPN in a situation like that, for privacy and for other reasons.

For wired tethering between a phone and a computer, USB 2.0 is fast
enough plus the phone will be powered and charged at the same time and
even if you used the USB-C to Ethernet adapter USB would still be the
bottleneck so there would be no upside.

A USB OTG Ethernet adapter (the phone powers the adapter) would not seem
to be something that was in big demand for a Phone. I've used a USB-C to
Ethernet adapter/USB-Hub on my laptop, on occasion, in an office. I
never tried plugging it into my phone. I hadn't even realized, when I
bought the laptop, that Ethernet ports are no longer included on most
laptops.

On 3/23/2022 4:54 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:

<snip>

> If that is not it, the phone might connect to an existing ethernet
> connection and get connectivity instead of using wifi or data.
> Advantages would again be getting power and privacy.

Actually the phone would not get power from an Ethernet connection,
there are no power pins in an Ethernet connector except for POE which
the USB-C to Ethernet adapters don't use.

Privacy is an advantage if you can trust where-ever that Ethernet
connection goes. If it's in a hotel, particularly in some countries,
then there's no privacy and you should use a VPN.

sms wrote:

> there are no power pins in an Ethernet connector except for POE which the USB-C
> to Ethernet adapters don't use.

You may not have seen one (and I haven't either) but technically there's no
reason that a USB/ethernet dongle *couldn't* be manufactured so it draws power
from ethernet and supplies it to USB.

In article <ja0sfiFi5ocU1@mid.individual.net>, Andy Burns
<usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:

> sms wrote:
> > there are no power pins in an Ethernet connector except for POE which the
> > USB-C to Ethernet adapters don't use.
>
> You may not have seen one (and I haven't either) but technically there's no
> reason that a USB/ethernet dongle *couldn't* be manufactured so it draws
> power from ethernet and supplies it to USB.

they exist.

here's one:
<https://shop.poetexas.com/products/gat-usbc-pd-1>
€ Delivers continuous USB-C power and Data to your tablet on the
USB-C connector

it's designed for ipads, iphones and microsoft surface, with limited
support for samsung tablets. no mention of other android devices.

nospam wrote:

> Andy Burns wrote:
>
>> You may not have seen one (and I haven't either) but technically there's no
>> reason that a USB/ethernet dongle *couldn't* be manufactured so it draws
>> power from ethernet and supplies it to USB.
>
> they exist.

more of a brick, than a dongle :-)

> here's one:
> <https://shop.poetexas.com/products/gat-usbc-pd-1>
> € Delivers continuous USB-C power and Data to your tablet on the
> USB-C connector

Bill Bradshaw wrote:
> I see my phone has the ability with a proper adaptor to connect by
> ethernet through my network. What would be the advantage and what
> would I do with it?

The cell phone is a Samsung Galaxy A12. I guess one question is could I
connect to ethernet and do the phone updates that way?

<Bill>

Bill Bradshaw wrote:

> The cell phone is a Samsung Galaxy A12. I guess one question is could I
> connect to ethernet and do the phone updates that way?

I skimmed the responses where you should already know that answer.
But to summarize (in case you didn't read the responses) = yes, you could.

But nobody would.
Unless they had no other choice.

Which, unless you haven't told us more about your situation, isn't your
situation.

Unless you know something none of the rest of us know about your situation,
what you'd do is what we do day in and day out, which is either WiFi or USB.

Some of us use Bluetooth too, but that's slower and specialized for ad hoc
situations which you don't seem to be dealing with based on what you said.

BTW, every time you post, I have to wonder if you're just another "micky"
troll; as you too don't seem to ever read the responses that people give
you.

Why?

In article <ja1326Fjd4nU1@mid.individual.net>, Bill Bradshaw
<bradshaw@gci.net> wrote:

> The cell phone is a Samsung Galaxy A12. I guess one question is could I
> connect to ethernet and do the phone updates that way?

you could but there's no advantage in doing so. it's much easier to do
everything over wifi.

nospam wrote:

>> The cell phone is a Samsung Galaxy A12. I guess one question is could I
>> connect to ethernet and do the phone updates that way?
>
> you could but there's no advantage in doing so. it's much easier to do
> everything over wifi.

At the risk of stating the obvious, is this Bill Bradshaw just another micky
troll who asks an inane question he found randomly on the Internet, and then
doesn't listen to a _single_ post that people spend time trying to help him.

And then, he asks the _same_ question, days later, proving he hasn't read
even a _single_ response that the people gave him who tried to advise him.

Why does he do this (which is the same thing micky does day in and day out)?

On 3/23/2022 8:25 AM, Andy Burns wrote:
> sms wrote:
>
>> there are no power pins in an Ethernet connector except for POE which
>> the USB-C to Ethernet adapters don't use.
>
> You may not have seen one (and I haven't either) but technically there's
> no reason that a USB/ethernet dongle *couldn't* be manufactured so it
> draws power from ethernet and supplies it to USB.

Well actually yes, technically there is a reason. Trying to extract
power from data lines is not a great idea. It's been done in the past on
serial and parallel ports with varying degrees of success. You can
extract enough power for a very low power circuit, but not enough to
power a phone or charge a battery.

It's worse for Ethernet. A 100BASE-TX port uses differential signaling
at ± 1V at very low current, and only when packets are being transmitted.

What you need is something like this
<https://www.vidabox.com/kiosks/lava-lavalink-samsung-android-tablet-adapter-cat5-poe-usb-ethernet-power-data-sync-pe-part.html>
connected to an Ethernet Switch that as POE ports.

sms wrote:

> Trying to extract power from data lines is not a great idea. It's been done in
> the past on serial and parallel ports with varying degrees of success. You can
> extract enough power for a very low power circuit, but not enough to power a
> phone or charge a battery.

You're joking right? 15 and 30 Watts per port are common, newer specs up to 100W
are possible but not yet that common.

> It's worse for Ethernet. A 100BASE-TX port uses differential signaling at ± 1V
> at very low current, and only when packets are being transmitted.

But PoE isn't tapping into power *from* the packets that, as you say, is applied
differentially between wires in the pairs, the power is applied separately
*between* the different pairs. Apart from the "dumb" schemes there's
negotiation before much power is provided.

<https://www.mouser.co.uk/new/coilcraft/coilcraft-guide-to-magnetics-for-poe/>

Most wifi access points you see in shops/offices, VoIP phones, IP cameras, one
ethernet switch may power another remote switch.

There are even offices where all the lighting is both powered and controlled
using PoE,

On 3/23/2022 10:17 AM, Bill Bradshaw wrote:
> Bill Bradshaw wrote:
>> I see my phone has the ability with a proper adaptor to connect by
>> ethernet through my network. What would be the advantage and what
>> would I do with it?
>
> The cell phone is a Samsung Galaxy A12. I guess one question is could I
> connect to ethernet and do the phone updates that way?

Sure, as long as the phone supports the USB to Ethernet dongle that
you're using.

With my Samsung Note 9, most USB devices that I've tried with it work
just fine, but not all do. The Google USB-C to 3.5mm audio adapter
didn't work (but the phone has a 3.5mm audio jack, I just wanted to see
if it would work).

I just tried my USB-C to Ethernet adapter on two Samsung phones, a
Galaxy Note 9 and a Galaxy A51 and it worked fine on both. This is the
one that I have <http://novolk.com/productinfo/65349.html> (no longer
available). The USB ports on the adapter also work (I tried the receiver
for a wireless mouse). So hopefully it will also work on the A12, but
they use different chipsets.

Thanks to USB-OTG Android phones are able to provide power to USB
devices that are plugged into the phone so you don't need a separate
power adapter. For the iPhone it's more of a hassle since the Lightning
port is not designed to power external devices (though it can provide at
least enough power for an MFi certified USB stick). For Ethernet, Belkin
makes a Lightning to Ethernet adapter but it requires external power,
either via POE or via a separate power supply
<https://www.belkin.com/us/adapters/ethernet/ethernet-power-adapter-with-lightning-connector/p/p-f8j227/>
and it's nearly $100, with the plus being that it also passes through
power into the phone so you can connect and charge at the same time.

On 3/23/2022 12:53 PM, Andy Burns wrote:
> sms wrote:
>
>> Trying to extract power from data lines is not a great idea. It's been
>> done in the past on serial and parallel ports with varying degrees of
>> success. You can extract enough power for a very low power circuit,
>> but not enough to power a phone or charge a battery.
>
> You're joking right? 15 and 30 Watts per port are common, newer specs up
> to 100W are possible but not yet that common.

You're confusing POE with 100BASET (or 1000BASET).

POE uses pins 4 & 5 for power and pins 7 & 8 for ground. But "plain"
twisted-pair Ethernet has two sets of differential data lines and
doesn't use any pins for power.

You need an Ethernet switch that supports POE in order to use a device
that needs POE. A good example is the Belkin Ethernet + Power Adapter
with Lightning Connector for iPhone. If you plug it into an Ethernet
switch that supports POE than you don't need a power adapter. If you
plug it into a standard Ethernet router or switch then you need to use a
separate power adapter. Trying to extract power from data signals is not
going to work on Ethernet. The voltage swing is too low to get much
power and it would affect data speeds.

sms wrote:

> You're confusing POE with 100BASET (or 1000BASET).

ha ha!

> POE uses pins 4 & 5 for power and pins 7 & 8 for ground.

Ha, fucking, ha, twenty years ago maybe.

As I said, the power isn't within the differential pairs, it's between different
differential pairs, read up on the specs, 802.3af and 802.3at being the common ones.

> But "plain" twisted-pair Ethernet has two sets of differential data lines and
> doesn't use any pins for power.
So far out of date, it's untrue ... PoE works on 10Mb/100Mb/1000Mb

In article <t1fudk$jtd$1@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

> Thanks to USB-OTG Android phones are able to provide power to USB
> devices that are plugged into the phone so you don't need a separate
> power adapter. For the iPhone it's more of a hassle since the Lightning
> port is not designed to power external devices (though it can provide at
> least enough power for an MFi certified USB stick).

lightning does provide external power, however, it's limited since the
power budget of a phone is limited, as it is for android.

> For Ethernet, Belkin
> makes a Lightning to Ethernet adapter but it requires external power,
> either via POE or via a separate power supply

external power is not required. it's optional, but generally a good
idea unless the session is brief. there are also poe adapters.

On 3/23/2022 1:02 PM, sms wrote:

> With my Samsung Note 9, most USB devices that I've tried with it
> work just fine, but not all do. The Google USB-C to 3.5mm audio
> adapter didn't work (but the phone has a 3.5mm audio jack, I just
> wanted to see if it would work).

You made me curious so I tried the same thing on my Samsung Galaxy S10+.
It worked fine both ways: Either the USB-C to 3.5mm audio adapter or the
built in 3.5mm audio jack...

On 3/23/2022 1:52 PM, AJL wrote:
> On 3/23/2022 1:02 PM, sms wrote:
>
>> With my Samsung Note 9, most USB devices that I've tried with it
>> work just fine, but not all do. The Google USB-C to 3.5mm audio
>> adapter didn't work (but the phone has a 3.5mm audio jack, I just
>> wanted to see if it would work).
>
> You made me curious so I tried the same thing on my Samsung Galaxy S10+.
> It worked fine both ways: Either the USB-C to 3.5mm audio adapter or the
> built in 3.5mm audio jack...

They must have fixed whatever was the problem in the Note 9.

On 2022-03-23 16:25, Andy Burns wrote:
> sms wrote:
>
>> there are no power pins in an Ethernet connector except for POE which
>> the USB-C to Ethernet adapters don't use.
>
> You may not have seen one (and I haven't either) but technically there's
> no reason that a USB/ethernet dongle *couldn't* be manufactured so it
> draws power from ethernet and supplies it to USB.

Or from a power adaptor. Or internal battery.

If it is the phone providing connectivity to a computer ethernet port,
it would make sense for it having an USB connector for power.

OH! I forgot, there are Ethernet connectors that do supply power, they
are used for surveillance cameras.

--
Cheers, Carlos.