On 1/10/2023 11:04 AM, Chris wrote:
> sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>> I broke out the Total Cost of Ownership data into a separate document.
>>
>> See
>> <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1BUZuX-i1set7ktS4lbfGBmzdiCLAoOKfqp0ZSOrZlhk/>
>>
>> Let me know if anyone sees any errors.
>
> It's mostly useless outside of the US. Please don't post it in an
> international forum.

LOL, sorry but it's relevant for several hundred million people which is
sufficient.

On 1/10/2023 8:05 AM, sms wrote:
> On 1/10/2023 4:30 AM, Chris wrote:
>> On 09/01/2023 17:36, Jerry wrote:
>>> On Mon, 9 Jan 2023 08:42:47 -0800, sms wrote:
>>>
>>>> Samsung - Galaxy S22 Ultra 128GB (Unlocked) - $1099
>>>> Google - Pixel 7 Pro 128GB (Unlocked) - $899
>>>> Apple - iPhone 14 Pro Max 128GB - $1099 (locked, Best Buy doesn't
>>>> sell it unlocked)
>>>>
>>>> Bottom line, the TCO for comparable Android and iPhone devices is
>>>> not very different, even when you don't take into account other
>>>> factors.
>>>
>>> That's only the sales price.
>>> What about the other costs of ownership?
>>> Where are they?
>>
>> There aren't any ;-P
>
> Sure there are.
>
> One advantage of the iPhone TCO is the incredible selection of low-cost
> after-market accessories. I can walk over to my local variety store,
> Daiso, and buy iPhone accessories like cases and screen protectors at
> very low prices, usually $1.75. Can't do that for Android phones, there
> are just way too many different devices to make this possible.

Today I was in a Dollar Tree store.

For iPhones, they had tempered glass screen protectors for iPhone 12,
iPhone 12 Pro, iPhone Xs Max, iPhone 11 Pro Max, iPhone 11, and iPhone
Xr for $1.25. Here's one example:
<https://www.dollartree.com/glass-screen-protectors-for-iphone-xr/297835>.

They also had cases for several iPhone models, including
<https://www.dollartree.com/decorative-iphone-xs-max-covers-5x25-in/297859>
for $1.25.

There was nothing for any Android device.

The lower cost of common accessories is definitely a small benefit of
iPhone over Android, but as someone else pointed out, these are
accessories that you basically purchase one time. Paying more for
Android accessories affects the TCO, but not a great deal.

sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
> On 1/10/2023 11:04 AM, Chris wrote:
>> sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>>> I broke out the Total Cost of Ownership data into a separate document.
>>>
>>> See
>>> <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1BUZuX-i1set7ktS4lbfGBmzdiCLAoOKfqp0ZSOrZlhk/>
>>>
>>> Let me know if anyone sees any errors.
>>
>> It's mostly useless outside of the US. Please don't post it in an
>> international forum.
>
> LOL,

I'm serious.

> sorry but it's relevant for several hundred million people which is
> sufficient.

American arrogance at its best...

On 1/10/2023 11:18 PM, Chris wrote:

<Snip>

> American arrogance at its best...

Well the iPhone was invented in the U.S.. Also, the U.S., Canada, and
Japan, are the only countries where iOS has a higher market share than
Android.

Am 04.01.23 um 10:11 schrieb Rod Speed:
> On Wed, 04 Jan 2023 18:04:04 +1100, Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
>
>> Am 04.01.23 um 08:02 schrieb Joerg Lorenz:
>>> Am 03.01.23 um 23:12 schrieb Chris:
>>>> Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
>>>>> Am 03.01.23 um 21:51 schrieb Chris:
>>>>>> There's more to it than chatting.
>>>>>
>>>>> E-Mail? Phone calls? Everything platform-agnostic.
>>>>> Tell us a little more we don't know yet.
>>>>
>>>> Sharing photos or cloud storage or paid apps or media subscriptions.
>>>
>>> There are a lot of platform-independent solutions for exactly these
>>> functions.
>>
>> BTW: I use them because I use a Pixel 7 and an iPhone 14 with services
>> from two different providers.
>
> How do you find the Pixel 7 overheating wise ?

No issues so far. But I think I did not use it so heavily that it had a
chance to overheat. I can watch TV and it stays handwarm.

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

On 11/01/2023 0:27, sms wrote:

> Today I was in a Dollar Tree store.
> There was nothing for any Android device.

The mendacity of his phony case gets more insane as the objections mount.

Now, because a single Dollar Tree store momentarily has no Android
accessories in stock for a $1.25 per item, therefore that is proof that
the total cost of ownership for iPhone devices is always less than Android
devices over the period of the past decade.

All this improbability is based on a single visit to a single dollar store?
This insincere farce continues to grow.

On 1/11/2023 1:01 PM, Calum wrote:
> On 11/01/2023 0:27, sms wrote:
>
>> Today I was in a Dollar Tree store.
>> There was nothing for any Android device.
>
> The mendacity of his phony case gets more insane as the objections mount.
>
> Now, because a single Dollar Tree store momentarily has no Android
> accessories in stock for a $1.25 per item, therefore that is proof that
> the total cost of ownership for iPhone devices is always less than Android
> devices over the period of the past decade.
>
> All this improbability is based on a single visit to a single dollar store?
> This insincere farce continues to grow.

Here's what you need to understand, there are probably three hundred
different Android devices on the market. No one is going to distribute
low-cost accessories for so many different phones.

You're not going to find phone-specific accessories for Android devices
at a dollar store. You'll be able to get USB cables, and perhaps a
cigarette lighter USB charger but that's it.

There are presently 17 iPhone models being sold by Apple (and by
carriers), in high volumes. Also, many accessories are interchangeable
if the displays are the same size with the same cutouts.

You can check the Dollar Tree web site and confirm this for yourself. Go
to <https://www.dollartree.com/> and try the following search terms:
"android" "No results for "android""
"samsung" "No results for "samsung""
"motorola" "No results for "motorola""
"iphone" "8 products for "iphone""

Screen protectors: Xr, 11
Screen protectors: 14/13/13 Pro
Screen protectors: 14 Plus, 13 Pro Max

In the past: Screen protectors: 6 Plus, 6S Plus, 7 Plus, & 8 Plu
In the past: Screen protectors: 6, 6s, 7, & 8
In the past: Screen protectors: X, XS, and 11 Pro

Some cases are also interchangeable.

Not sure why anyone is upset that iPhone accessories are available at
very low prices.

In article <tpnd5u$11icu$2@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

>
> Here's what you need to understand,

get off your high horse.

> there are probably three hundred
> different Android devices on the market. No one is going to distribute
> low-cost accessories for so many different phones.

they don't need to.

what they do is focus on the popular models, namely samsung.

On Wed, 11 Jan 2023 18:12:26 -0500, nospam wrote:

>> Here's what you need to understand,
>
> get off your high horse.
>
>> there are probably three hundred
>> different Android devices on the market. No one is going to distribute
>> low-cost accessories for so many different phones.
>
> they don't need to.
>
> what they do is focus on the popular models, namely samsung.

Yep.
One of the reasons to buy a Samsung is that most people buy them.
That means there are plenty of competitive accessories for Samsung models.

Also, when you want to root or install ported pixel-only apps, Samsung is
often the first one to have all the high end users having done that work.

All the tear downs are often going to be performed on Samsungs first.
All the off-brand repair parts are often found on Samsung first.

To buy a Samsung is to buy competitive choices for what you do with it.

On 2023-01-12 02:17:46 +0000, soyon said:

> On Wed, 11 Jan 2023 18:12:26 -0500, nospam wrote:
>
>>> Here's what you need to understand,
>>
>> get off your high horse.
>>
>>> there are probably three hundred
>>> different Android devices on the market. No one is going to distribute
>>> low-cost accessories for so many different phones.
>>
>> they don't need to.
>>
>> what they do is focus on the popular models, namely samsung.
>
> Yep.
> One of the reasons to buy a Samsung is that most people buy them.
> That means there are plenty of competitive accessories for Samsung models.
>
> Also, when you want to root or install ported pixel-only apps, Samsung is
> often the first one to have all the high end users having done that work.
>
> All the tear downs are often going to be performed on Samsungs first.
> All the off-brand repair parts are often found on Samsung first.
>
> To buy a Samsung is to buy competitive choices for what you do with it.

Samsung are even worse than Apple for repairability.

Samsung S22 iFixIt.com repairability socre: 3 out of 10
iPhone 14 iFixIt.com repairability score: 7 out of 10

On 1/11/2023 6:17 PM, soyon wrote:

<snip>

> To buy a Samsung is to buy competitive choices for what you do with it.

Currently, Apple has a 55.79% market share in the U.S., while Samsung
has a 29.85% market share.

Samsung currently sells 31 different models on their U.S. web site.

Apple currently sells 8 different models on their U.S. web site.

At least for the U.S. market, it's impractical for a brick and mortar
store, that doesn't sell the Samsung models, to carry after-market
accessories for so many different phones, each of which sells in
relatively low volumes. A store like Best Buy will often carry some
non-Apple accessories for the phones that they sell, but not at a good price

If you want low-cost accessories for non-Apple devices, at least in the
U.S., you order them online from sellers like AliExpress or eBay.

If you look at the Best Buy web site, the least expensive case for a
Samsung S22 Ultra is $14.99. On AliExpress you can get a much better
case for $3.24 <https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804489814632.html>

Same situation for screen protectors.

As I stated, most of these things are one-time purchases so the easier
availability, and lower cost, of after-market iPhone accessories is only
a small part of TCO.

In other countries, where the iPhone doesn't dominate the market, I
expect that things are different.

In article <tpp422$19lm3$1@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

> At least for the U.S. market, it's impractical for a brick and mortar
> store, that doesn't sell the Samsung models, to carry after-market
> accessories for so many different phones, each of which sells in
> relatively low volumes.

they only need to carry accessories for the phones that are popular and
normally ones they sell. they do *not* need to carry accessories for
every model.

> A store like Best Buy will often carry some
> non-Apple accessories for the phones that they sell, but not at a good price

yes at a good price. otherwise, they won't sell very many.

On Thu, 12 Jan 2023 06:04:48 -0800, sms wrote:

>> To buy a Samsung is to buy competitive choices for what you do with it.
>
> Currently, Apple has a 55.79% market share in the U.S., while Samsung
> has a 29.85% market share.

Stupid statistic when we're saying Samsung is MOST of the Androids sold.

> In other countries, where the iPhone doesn't dominate the market, I
> expect that things are different.

Samsung has the lions share of the Android market in the USA.
I don't know who has the largest portion of Android world wide.

sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
> On 1/10/2023 11:18 PM, Chris wrote:
>
> <Snip>
>
>> American arrogance at its best...
>
> Well the iPhone was invented in the U.S..

An iphone is not an invention, but anyway so what? It is a global product
and you can bet the TCO in India is very, very different to France.

> Also, the U.S., Canada, and
> Japan, are the only countries where iOS has a higher market share than
> Android.

Your "analysis" isn't valid in Canada nor Japan either. Thanks for
supporting my position.

On 1/12/2023 8:19 AM, soyon wrote:

<snip>

> Samsung has the lions share of the Android market in the USA.
> I don't know who has the largest portion of Android world wide.

Unfortunately, there are far too many Samsung models that make up that
29.85% market share. That's why you don't see all the inexpensive
accessories being sold in stores for Samsung devices, only iPhone devices.

On 1/12/2023 9:15 AM, Chris wrote:
> sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>> On 1/10/2023 11:18 PM, Chris wrote:
>>
>> <Snip>
>>
>>> American arrogance at its best...
>>
>> Well the iPhone was invented in the U.S..
>
> An iphone is not an invention, but anyway so what? It is a global product
> and you can bet the TCO in India is very, very different to France.
>
>> Also, the U.S., Canada, and
>> Japan, are the only countries where iOS has a higher market share than
>> Android.
>
> Your "analysis" isn't valid in Canada nor Japan either. Thanks for
> supporting my position.

LOL, you really shouldn't have brought up Japan, since it's the one
country where iPhone accessories are even more available at low cost
than the U.S.!

There are 3,620 Daiso stores in Japan, all of which have a wide
selection of iPhone accessories, but no Android accessories. Same thing
for their stores in the U.S. and Canada.

Thanks for proving everything I said!

I added the Pixel 6a to the mid-range comparison table in the "Total
Cost of Ownership—iPhone Versus Android" document at
<https://docs.google.com/document/d/1BUZuX-i1set7ktS4lbfGBmzdiCLAoOKfqp0ZSOrZlhk>

I also made some changes to the costs since the Pixel 7 Pro has come
down in price by $150.

The same content is also in the document "Android and iOS features that
Users of the Other Operating System Wish they Had" at
<https://docs.google.com/document/d/1JznrWfGJDA8CYVfjSnPTwfVy8-gAC0kPyaApuJTcUNE>.

In article <tppg53$1auaa$1@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

> Unfortunately, there are far too many Samsung models that make up that
> 29.85% market share. That's why you don't see all the inexpensive
> accessories being sold in stores for Samsung devices, only iPhone devices.

you've obviously don't visit very many stores.

although they don't have something for every single model (and nobody
expects that they would, it's just another one of your many straw men),
but they absolutely do have stuff for the popular models, namely the
galaxy s series, as well as other manufacturers.

cellphone stores in particular have accessories for the various phones
they carry because the accessories are high markup items.

On Thu, 12 Jan 2023 14:13:10 -0500, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> cellphone stores in particular have accessories for the various phones
> they carry because the accessories are high markup items.

This is true and it's where I bought my phone and accessories.
Even if you buy online they sometimes make you pick it up at the store.
Then, after spending $900 on a phone, what's an extra $100 for accessories.
You walk out of that store with everything you need (minus taxes paid).

All that needs to be put into the total ownership cost calculation.
And that's just the start point.

sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
> On 1/12/2023 9:15 AM, Chris wrote:
>> sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>>> On 1/10/2023 11:18 PM, Chris wrote:
>>>
>>> <Snip>
>>>
>>>> American arrogance at its best...
>>>
>>> Well the iPhone was invented in the U.S..
>>
>> An iphone is not an invention, but anyway so what? It is a global product
>> and you can bet the TCO in India is very, very different to France.
>>
>>> Also, the U.S., Canada, and
>>> Japan, are the only countries where iOS has a higher market share than
>>> Android.
>>
>> Your "analysis" isn't valid in Canada nor Japan either. Thanks for
>> supporting my position.
>
> LOL, you really shouldn't have brought up Japan,

I didn't. You did. Attention to détail isn't your strength.

In article <tppnra$1bjg$1@gioia.aioe.org>, JAB <here@is.invalid> wrote:

> Then, after spending $900 on a phone, what's an extra $100 for accessories.

what in the world are you buying???

a case and screen protector together would generally be an additional
$20-30 or so.

On 1/12/2023 11:42 AM, JAB wrote:
> On Thu, 12 Jan 2023 14:13:10 -0500, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
>> cellphone stores in particular have accessories for the various phones
>> they carry because the accessories are high markup items.
>
> This is true and it's where I bought my phone and accessories.
> Even if you buy online they sometimes make you pick it up at the store.
> Then, after spending $900 on a phone, what's an extra $100 for accessories.
> You walk out of that store with everything you need (minus taxes paid).
>
> All that needs to be put into the total ownership cost calculation.
> And that's just the start point.

The point is that while you can buy both Android and iPhone accessories
at the carrier's store, or direct from the manufacturer, when purchased
from those sources those accessories have very high prices due to the
high margins.

With the iPhone, at least in the U.S. and Japan, you have a wide variety
of low cost aftermarket accessories available. There's little difference
between a $1.25-1.75 tempered glass screen protector and a $39.98
tempered glass screen protector from Verizon
<https://www.verizon.com/products/verizon-tempered-glass-screen-protector-iphone-13-iphone-13-pro/>.
It's because the iPhone models sell in such large quantities that it's
profitable for $1, ¥100, €1, or £1 to stock those accessories.

Will some buyers just pay the high prices at the carrier's store or the
manufacturer's store? Sure they will. Many will order from other places
like Amazon, eBay, or AliExpress. Some will buy them at retailers like
Daiso or other $1, ¥100, €1, or £1 stores.

In article <tpq4fc$1cprm$2@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

> The point is that while you can buy both Android and iPhone accessories
> at the carrier's store, or direct from the manufacturer, when purchased
> from those sources those accessories have very high prices due to the
> high margins.

not necessarily. prices are whatever the market will bear.

> With the iPhone, at least in the U.S. and Japan, you have a wide variety
> of low cost aftermarket accessories available. There's little difference
> between a $1.25-1.75 tempered glass screen protector and a $39.98
> tempered glass screen protector

oh yes there is, and $1.25 screen protectors will almost certainly be
cheap plastic and likely have bubbles after application.

quality screen protectors cost more.

> from Verizon
> <https://www.verizon.com/products/verizon-tempered-glass-screen-protector-ipho
> ne-13-iphone-13-pro/>.

verizon is ripping people off. imagine that.

On 1/12/2023 7:04 AM, sms wrote:

> A store like Best Buy will often carry some non-Apple accessories
> for the phones that they sell, but not at a good price

I was killing time in a Best Buy today and was surprised to find that my
old Galaxy S10+ was listed on the Android accessory aisle sign among
many later Galaxy phones. But upon closer inspection there were no S10+
products to be found...

On 1/12/2023 4:18 PM, sms wrote:

> There's little difference between a $1.25-1.75 tempered glass screen
> protector and a $39.98 tempered glass screen protector from
> Verizon...

I wonder if screen protectors are really needed with the hardened glass
found on today's modern phones or are they just a cash cow for the
aftermarket folks. Opinions on the net are varied...

I've never ever used them and no problems (knocks on wood).