nospam wrote:

> well said and all very much correct.

It's bullshit that "most" phones don't have the industry standard jack.
Over three quarters of all phones released in the past five years have it.
There's a good reason that *most phones* have the standard 3.5mm jack.

> as it turns out, apple wasn't first smartphone maker to do so. that
> title goes to the first android phone, the t-mobile g1 in 2008:

It's revealing nospam always makes the preposterous claim that Apple has no
free will whenever he is defending the _loss_ of iPhone functionality.

> going back even further, feature phones either had a smaller 2.5mm jack
> or a proprietary dock port, both of which required an adapter to use
> standard headphones.

If you believe nospam, Apple is wasting that tremendous amount of money they
spend in marketing since according to nospam, everyone else _forces_ Apple
to remove basic functionality from the iPhone year after year after year.

>> It is unfortunate that folks who have
>> headphones and headsets that connect via 3.5mm TRS cannot directly
>> connect anymore but they can buy a simple adapter and get the same
>> functionality.
>
> they also represent a very, very small niche.

The fact *most phones* have the industry standard jack is _not_ a niche.
>> In the meantime the folks who are actually interested
>> in Hi-Fi audio can use better connectors than wires soldered into a
>> ring.
>
> yep, and they're not likely to be using a smartphone as a source
> anyway, making it entirely a non-issue.

Given *most phones* have the jack, it's interesting that nospam always comes
up with preposterous excuses for why Apple _removed_ basic functionality.
--
FACT #1:
<https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2018&chk35mm=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2>
Of the phones released in the past five years, 1,710 have the standard jack.

FACT #2:
That's out of 2,202 phones released in the past five years (both types).
<https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2018&sAvailabilities=1,2>

On 2022-04-15 6:26 p.m., Andy Burnelli wrote:
> meff wrote:
>
>> Getting angry at Apple over this is silly (as others have noted that
>> many Android phones have these features as well.)
>
> Apologies (in advance) for being allergic to bullshit... :)
> Please stop the bullshitting in defense of Apple's marketing strategies.
>
> If you wish to be credible, then you need to get your facts correct.
> Please say "select few" and not "many" since that's the facts.

Of phones currently available it is more than 20% of all phones available.

>
> Most people who don't know what they're talking about think it's a trend.
> It's not.

Of phones from the last 4 years, it's nearly 25%

Of phones from the last 2 years, it's more than 40%.

Looks like a trend to me.

In article <t3d6k8$1942$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Andy Burnelli
<spam@nospam.com> wrote:

> The fact *most phones* have the industry standard jack is _not_ a niche.

what matters is if it's actually *used* and it is not.

the space can be better used for other things that are more useful to
more people, especially given that an analog jack is redundant.

nospam wrote:

>> The fact *most phones* have the industry standard jack is _not_ a niche.
>
> what matters is if it's actually *used* and it is not.

How often do you use a USB thumb drive?

You could argue that you only use it when you need it, right?
Which might not be all that often, right?

The loss of functionality you advocate for is like Apple removing the
industry standard USB-A ports on Apple computers which negates the use of a
simple USB thumb drive.

The point being it won't be there when you actually _need_ it to be there.

You'd then have to go out and buy a silly Apple gimmick just to get back the
lost functionality that shouldn't have been removed in the first place.

Which is exactly what Apple wants you to do.

> the space can be better used for other things that are more useful to
> more people, especially given that an analog jack is redundant.

Same can be said for Apple removing the standard USB-A port on its laptops.

On 16.04.2022 01:57, nospam wrote:

>> Are you sure Apple includes "headphones and an adapter" in the iPhone 13?
>
> note the tense.

It doesn't matter what Apple did ten years ago.
It matters what Apple does now.

Your position is untenable since Apple doesn't do what you said it does.

In comp.sys.raspberry-pi, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
> On 4/14/2022 4:24 AM, Patrick wrote:
>> On 14/04/2022 00:11, Eli the Bearded wrote:
>>> I've seen bluetooth keyboards about the size of a small TV remote:
>>> https://www.amazon.com/Miritz-Wireless-Keyboard-Touchpad-Control/dp/B01LZIIH24/
>>> That size is perfect, but I'd really prefer USB not bluetooth.
>> I have two of these, I can use them on anything with a USB socket.

Use them "wired" to a USB socket?

> Except that he explicitly stated that he wanted a _wired_ keyboard.

Yes.

> Part of the confusion is that what he really appears to not want is a
> Bluetooth keyboard.

I didn't know about the 2.4 GHz connection. Maybe that's more reliable
than bluetooth, maybe not. I'd still rather the wire. (Which probably
puts me in an extreme minority.)

> The upside of a Bluetooth keyboard and/or mouse is that there's no need
> for a USB receiver module.

And the downside of any thing not wired is batteries and moving it
between devices. Repairing for BT or moving dongles for this 2.4 GHz
thing.

So far Computer Nerd Kev has the best suggestion, one I would have
discounted as "too unfinished looking" (no edges? dust will get in
there) but maybe the best option available.

https://www.tindie.com/products/bobricius/mini-piqwerty-usb-keyboard/

It's small. It's USB. It's QWERTY. There's an escape key. But open
sides. Space key off in a corner. Three rows with no dedicated number
keys. It's pretty raw.

Not out of budget, but certainly more than I wanted to pay.

Elijah
------
for less than ideal

On 2022-04-15 8:11 p.m., Andy Burnelli wrote:
> nospam wrote:
>
>>> The fact *most phones* have the industry standard jack is _not_ a niche.
>>
>> what matters is if it's actually *used* and it is not.
>
> How often do you use a USB thumb drive?
>
> You could argue that you only use it when you need it, right?
> Which might not be all that often, right?
>
> The loss of functionality you advocate for is like Apple removing the
> industry standard USB-A ports on Apple computers which negates the use of a
> simple USB thumb drive.

No...

....because USB ports are MULTI-function...

....kind of like the Lightning port.

Ooops

On 2022-04-16, Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> wrote:
> The loss of functionality you advocate for is like Apple removing the
> industry standard USB-A ports on Apple computers which negates the use of a
> simple USB thumb drive.

Oof I'm sorry you lost your parallel port. It must have stung when
they took those industry-standard connectors out of computers for
USB.

On a sunny day (Sat, 16 Apr 2022 06:19:28 GMT) it happened meff
<email@example.com> wrote in <Qdt6K.40100$I_.32506@fx44.iad>:

>On 2022-04-16, Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> wrote:
>> The loss of functionality you advocate for is like Apple removing the
>> industry standard USB-A ports on Apple computers which negates the use of a
>> simple USB thumb drive.
>
>Oof I'm sorry you lost your parallel port. It must have stung when
>they took those industry-standard connectors out of computers for
>USB.

I have a PCI par port card in one of my PCs
its the only real I/O on a PC.
Now with raspi we have GPIO, a BIG win!!!!

Apple is overpriced crap.

meff wrote:

> On 2022-04-16, Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> wrote:
>> The loss of functionality you advocate for is like Apple removing the
>> industry standard USB-A ports on Apple computers which negates the use of a
>> simple USB thumb drive.
>
> Oof I'm sorry you lost your parallel port. It must have stung when
> they took those industry-standard connectors out of computers for
> USB.

Why not compare a modern Tesla to the old magtape of the days of yore?

What ceases to be shocking is how powerful Apple propaganda is on the
weakest brains who obtain most of their self esteem from Apple ads.

It's interesting that you equate the commonly useful USB-A port with the
no-longer-used parallel port which proves how much power Apple advertising
has on your feeble brain.

Clearly you have no education and a low IQ since a standard part of any
testing regimen is to see how people can discern similar with different.

Like Russian citizens, you have been fed the propaganda soup for so long
that you can't possibly comprehend that a floppy disk isn't the same thing
as a 3.5 jack in terms of modern commonly useful & oft-used functionality.
--
What ceases to be shocking is how powerful Apple propaganda is on the
weakest brains who obtain most of their self esteem from Apple ads.

Jan Panteltje wrote:

> I have a PCI par port card in one of my PCs
> its the only real I/O on a PC.
> Now with raspi we have GPIO, a BIG win!!!!
>
> Apple is overpriced crap.

I agree, and, more to the point of an educated astute observation...

The commonality of the raspi with almost _all_ other common consumer
electronics is that every year the raspi (and most consumer electronics)
gets (a) better, (b) faster, and (c) cheaper over time.

It's only the immensely hugely marketed electronic items which don't get
(a) better, (b) faster, and (c) cheaper over time.

HINT #1: Apple spends the lowest of all of high tech in R&D, yet Apple's
marketing budget is likely the largest of all high tech (bar none).

HINT #2: Guess why Apple products (which every year lose more and more
functionality) get (a) worse, (b) faster, and (c) more expensive over time?
--
You can't make those ungodly profit margins off an intelligent customer.

On 2022-04-16, Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I have a PCI par port card in one of my PCs
> its the only real I/O on a PC.
> Now with raspi we have GPIO, a BIG win!!!!
>
> Apple is overpriced crap.

Nobody said anything about Apple being priced well :) I'm just here to
say the 3.5mm TRS jack is good to be dead. It was a bad connector and
it's well and good to be gone. I really don't care about Apple either
way. I'm an Android user myself and I'm _glad_ I don't have to bother
with 3.5mm jacks anymore.

meff wrote:

> Nobody said anything about Apple being priced well :) I'm just here to
> say the 3.5mm TRS jack is good to be dead. It was a bad connector and
> it's well and good to be gone. I really don't care about Apple either
> way. I'm an Android user myself and I'm _glad_ I don't have to bother
> with 3.5mm jacks anymore.

If I assume you're a well educated person with at least an average IQ, I
will also have to assume that your thinking is based on a modicum of logic.

With that assumption in mind, I must ask how is a phone any less functional
if it happens to be most phones which have the industry standard 3.5mm jack?

The Apple iKooks seem to claim any phone with the industry standard 3.5 mm
jack is (somehow) less functional than a phone that doesn't have that jack.

How is that a logical sensible assessment in your well-informed opinion?

On Sat, 16 Apr 2022 08:36:37 +0100, Andy Burnelli wrote:

> Jan Panteltje wrote:
>
>> I have a PCI par port card in one of my PCs its the only real I/O on a
>> PC.
>> Now with raspi we have GPIO, a BIG win!!!!
>>
>> Apple is overpriced crap.
>
> I agree, and, more to the point of an educated astute observation...
>
> The commonality of the raspi with almost _all_ other common consumer
> electronics is that every year the raspi (and most consumer electronics)
> gets (a) better, (b) faster, and (c) cheaper over time.
>
> It's only the immensely hugely marketed electronic items which don't get
> (a) better, (b) faster, and (c) cheaper over time.
>
> HINT #1: Apple spends the lowest of all of high tech in R&D, yet Apple's
> marketing budget is likely the largest of all high tech (bar none).
>
> HINT #2: Guess why Apple products (which every year lose more and more
> functionality) get (a) worse, (b) faster, and (c) more expensive over
> time?

the reason is actually quite simple Apple are NOT primarily a technology
company, they are a fashion house. change for the sake of change every 6
months & your customer base will buy everything again because they simply
must have the latest model or die of embarrassment

--
Hindsight is always 20:20.
-- Billy Wilder

On Fri, 15 Apr 2022 17:55:05 -0400, nospam wrote:

> In article <t3cjcj$1s9$2@gioia.aioe.org>, alister
> <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
>> > Apple replaced one method of connecting headphones/earbuds with
>> > another.
>>
>> replaces a universal interface with a proprietary one that can only be
>> sourced from Apple of an Apple licensed supplier.
>
> usb-c is also licensed, for the many android devices that do not have an
> analog headphone jack anymore.

Yep it is not just apple, others have seen that it can generate an
additional revenue stream & have adopted the same strategy

--
Don't put too fine a point to your wit for fear it should get blunted.
-- Miguel de Cervantes

On 2022-04-16, Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> wrote:
> meff wrote:
>
>> Nobody said anything about Apple being priced well :) I'm just here to
>> say the 3.5mm TRS jack is good to be dead. It was a bad connector and
>> it's well and good to be gone. I really don't care about Apple either
>> way. I'm an Android user myself and I'm _glad_ I don't have to bother
>> with 3.5mm jacks anymore.
>
> If I assume you're a well educated person with at least an average IQ, I
> will also have to assume that your thinking is based on a modicum of logic.
>
> With that assumption in mind, I must ask how is a phone any less functional
> if it happens to be most phones which have the industry standard 3.5mm jack?
>
> The Apple iKooks seem to claim any phone with the industry standard 3.5 mm
> jack is (somehow) less functional than a phone that doesn't have that jack.
>
> How is that a logical sensible assessment in your well-informed opinion?

I for one prefer not having a 3.5mm jack on my phone (and I don't on
my Android). I already talked about my problems with the connector in
another post. Practically speaking, they add another failure mode to
the phone and increase its bulk. I've had my 3.5mm connectors die on
me often and frequently, everything from one channel going dead to
gunk buildup causing attenuated audio. I'm a pretty outdoorsy person
so that doesn't help. The single connector design of phones without
the 3.5mm sockets make them easy to clean and maintain.

On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 10:39:45 -0700, sms wrote:

> On 4/14/2022 8:45 AM, sms wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> I have a mouse that is switchable between 2.4 GHz and Bluetooth, and it
>> comes with a 2.4 GHz receiver. But the mini-keyboards I've seen are all
>> one or the other, and not switchable.
>
> Actually there is a switchable Bluetooth/2.4 GHz model, see
> <https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07TS7TQ8J/>.

Rii have a few different models like this - they are generally quite good

--
"Nature is very un-American. Nature never hurries."
-- William George Jordan

alister wrote:

> the reason is actually quite simple Apple are NOT primarily a technology
> company, they are a fashion house. change for the sake of change every 6
> months & your customer base will buy everything again because they simply
> must have the latest model or die of embarrassment

Yup.

You understand the market dynamics well.

Marketing is why Apple products get worse, faster & more expensive over
time, while other electronics (like the raspi) get better, faster & cheaper.

Apple removes functionality, and then tells them it's "courageous" to do so.
*And they believe it!*

Apple secretly throttles CPUs and then says they have a special battery
chemistry that only Apple uses and it's only used in certain iPhones.
*And they believe it!*

Apple has never shipped the correct 20W charger in any iPhone box when Apple
tells its customers that they have too many (old decrepit) chargers already.
*And they believe it!*

You can't make those ungodly profits off of an intelligent customer base.
*You just can't*
--
*Does it surprise you Apple spends less in R&D than anyone in high tech?*
<https://groups.google.com/g/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/c/STrAkx09VYk/m/4Qr_Iuq5AwAJ>

meff wrote:

>> How is that a logical sensible assessment in your well-informed opinion?
>
> I for one prefer not having a 3.5mm jack on my phone (and I don't on
> my Android).

Thank you for approaching the answer in the manner in which it was posed, as
the iKooks are saying that somehow the phone is damaged by the mere presence
of that industry standard 3.5mm jack on the side.

> I already talked about my problems with the connector in
> another post.

I don't doubt that _every_ standard has its pros and cons.

> Practically speaking, they add another failure mode to
> the phone and increase its bulk.

Do they?

A lot of people believe in their own intuition more than they believe in
facts, where that's how marketing works (it preys on your intuition
believing something that wasn't actually ever said - but it was implied).

Is there _any_ evidence that the vast majority of phones with the standard
3.5mm jack are more prone to failures not associated directly with the jack?

And, given most Android phones nowadays are coming with huge batteries
(greater than about 4.5 Amp hour capacities), is the "bulk" of the industry
standard 3.5mm jack on that rather thick side really a design impediment?

> I've had my 3.5mm connectors die on
> me often and frequently, everything from one channel going dead to
> gunk buildup causing attenuated audio.

With all due respect, that's not what I'm asking as any 3.5mm jack that
works for a time and then fails thereafter was still useful for that time.

Not having that jack made it *NOT* useful for the _entire_ time.

> I'm a pretty outdoorsy person
> so that doesn't help.

You don't know me, but my last phone got crushed while I was rappelling.

> The single connector design of phones without
> the 3.5mm sockets make them easy to clean and maintain.

Again, I get it that you're basing that on pure intuition, but bear in mind
that I know quite a lot about engineering where intuition is often wrong.

Take the "intuition" that people have with high-test gasoline being used for
racing engines, so they think it gives their Honda Civic more power somehow.

Hell, they even think "high octane jet fuel" will be even better, right?
And yet it's not.

Intuition is almost always wrong because even the smartest of us owns the
intuition that nature gives the monkeys who descended from the trees onto
the savanna. (I know a bit about quantum mechanics, for example, where
_nothing_ is intuitive, and if you think it is, you don't understand it...
to paraphrase Richard Feynman.)

I completely understood what you are claiming, but I question these intuits:
1. Something to fail
2. Increase in bulk
3. Easy to maintain

Personally, I don't find any of those intuitive thoughts persuasive in light
of the _functionality_ of a phone with and without the standard 3.5mm jack.

However let's see if anyone else has an ideas why the iKooks seem to claim
that a phone with the functionality is somehow _less_ functional than one
that doesn't have it at all.
--
Reminds me of the WWII joke told in Germany of "If you see green wings, it's
British, and if you see silver wings, it's American, but if you can't see it
at all, it's German).

On a sunny day (Sat, 16 Apr 2022 07:36:23 GMT) it happened meff
<email@example.com> wrote in <Xlu6K.430643$t2Bb.327174@fx98.iad>:

>On 2022-04-16, Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> I have a PCI par port card in one of my PCs
>> its the only real I/O on a PC.
>> Now with raspi we have GPIO, a BIG win!!!!
>>
>> Apple is overpriced crap.
>
>Nobody said anything about Apple being priced well :) I'm just here to
>say the 3.5mm TRS jack is good to be dead. It was a bad connector and
>it's well and good to be gone. I really don't care about Apple either
>way. I'm an Android user myself and I'm _glad_ I don't have to bother
>with 3.5mm jacks anymore.

We live in a world where making things redundant by introducing new standards
to seLL new stuf seems to be the normal
I have many 3.5 mm earbuds and expensive Sennheiser headphone with 3.5 mm jacks
If Apple or anybody wants to exclude me from using it then they have already lost me as a buyer
(not that I would even consider Apple).
I have a Xiaomi Android phone for what was it? 140 Euro or so and it has a 3.5 mm head phone connector
plenty of apps available for it.

All my rapis have 3.5 mm jacks up to and including the Pi4 8 GB.
I have USB audio sticks for mike in and audio out for it too with 3.5 mm Jack
That brings me to all those mikes...

alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> the reason is actually quite simple Apple are NOT primarily a technology
> company, they are a fashion house. change for the sake of change every 6
> months & your customer base will buy everything again because they simply
> must have the latest model or die of embarrassment

This is a gross generalisation which might be true for a lot of people and
works well for Apple but a generalisation nonetheless. I am an old
unix/linux user who switched from Windows to Apple around 2008 because as a
developer (formerly web now mostly C) it "just" works. I don't need gamer
graphics but I do appreciate not running system updates for a whole day
after a week of not using a computer. And yes, I like the aesthetics of
both the hardware and (mostly) the software. Linux doesn't work for me as a
day to day desktop. I like tinkering as a hobby but I don't want to be a
busy system administrator for my own system.

I only recently switched from Android to iPhone and yes I miss the
headphone jack but I got a €5 adapter. It kinda sucks but modern (high end)
Android phones also often don't have it anymore.

On a sunny day (Sat, 16 Apr 2022 08:50:58 -0000 (UTC)) it happened A. Dumas
<alexandre@dumas.fr.invalid> wrote in <t3e01i$mp5$1@dont-email.me>:

>alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>> the reason is actually quite simple Apple are NOT primarily a technology
>> company, they are a fashion house. change for the sake of change every 6
>> months & your customer base will buy everything again because they simply
>> must have the latest model or die of embarrassment
>
>This is a gross generalisation which might be true for a lot of people and
>works well for Apple but a generalisation nonetheless. I am an old
>unix/linux user who switched from Windows to Apple around 2008 because as a
>developer (formerly web now mostly C) it "just" works.

I have been running Linux only since 1998 when I found SLS Linux on a CD that came with some magazine.
Before that I was a developer for IBM software in x86 asm and C, an also various micro computers.
But I am also an electronics hardware designer and a hacker of course ;-)

>I don't need gamer
>graphics but I do appreciate not running system updates for a whole day
>after a week of not using a computer. And yes, I like the aesthetics of
>both the hardware and (mostly) the software. Linux doesn't work for me as a
>day to day desktop.

That makes no sense whatsoever

I type this on my good old Samsung laptop that runs Slackware
~ # uname -a
Linux panteltje20 2.6.37.6 #3 SMP Sat Apr 9 22:49:32 CDT 2011 x86_64 Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-2430M CPU @ 2.40GHz GenuineIntel GNU/Linux
so 11 years old distro, in the newsreader I wrote myself back in those days:
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/newsflex/index.html
because there was no FreeAgent for Linux.

There is a modern version of Debian in an other partition, can boot in it but never use it though.

I can also run Chromium on my laptop via ssh from the Pi4 4GBB
~# cat /usr/local/sbin/chromium

#!/usr/bin/expect
spawn ssh -Y flip@192.168.178.95 /usr/bin/chromium-browser --window-size=1568,872 1>/dev/zero 2>/dev/zero
expect "password"
send "Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious\r"
expect "192.168.178.123"
interact

No problem exposing my password here as they they cannot spell it anyways.

>I like tinkering as a hobby but I don't want to be a
>busy system administrator for my own system.

Well, silly updates that suck bandwidth seems to be the normal.
I use iptables as firewall here,.
Sure some silly website can steal your passwords, same for Apple and Microsoft.

I run Chromium browser on a Pi4 4 GB (so Linux) to access modern websites,
In all these years since 1998 I have never been hacked,
My website is hosted by godaddy and that is worth the money as I do not have to
check logfiles all day to check for hacking attempts..

I tried to write an android app one day but really disliked the system and doubt the security...
programming for dummies sort of thing.
I write asm for micros and it is fun, plenty of code on my site.
Using C for Linux stuff, makes it portable to raspis etc.

>I only recently switched from Android to iPhone and yes I miss the
>headphone jack but I got a €5 adapter. It kinda sucks but modern (high end)
>Android phones also often don't have it anymore.

Later

On Sat, 16 Apr 2022 08:50:58 -0000 (UTC), A. Dumas wrote:

> alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>> the reason is actually quite simple Apple are NOT primarily a
>> technology company, they are a fashion house. change for the sake of
>> change every 6 months & your customer base will buy everything again
>> because they simply must have the latest model or die of embarrassment
>
> This is a gross generalisation which might be true for a lot of people
> and works well for Apple but a generalisation nonetheless. I am an old
> unix/linux user who switched from Windows to Apple around 2008 because
> as a developer (formerly web now mostly C) it "just" works. I don't need
> gamer graphics but I do appreciate not running system updates for a
> whole day after a week of not using a computer. And yes, I like the
> aesthetics of both the hardware and (mostly) the software. Linux doesn't
> work for me as a day to day desktop. I like tinkering as a hobby but I
> don't want to be a busy system administrator for my own system.
>
> I only recently switched from Android to iPhone and yes I miss the
> headphone jack but I got a €5 adapter. It kinda sucks but modern (high
> end)
> Android phones also often don't have it anymore.

This much is true, unlike most Fashion houses Apple do make high Quality
products that work well, its not the product I dislike it is the Corporate
mentality & ethos of the company.

--
Mum's the word.
-- Miguel de Cervantes

In article <eli$2204160010@qaz.wtf>, Eli the Bearded
<*@eli.users.panix.com> wrote:

> > The upside of a Bluetooth keyboard and/or mouse is that there's no need
> > for a USB receiver module.
>
> And the downside of any thing not wired is batteries and moving it
> between devices. Repairing for BT or moving dongles for this 2.4 GHz
> thing.

bluetooth keyboard batteries last as much as two years on a single
charge. it's *not* an issue. moving it between devices is also easier
since there aren't any wires to plug/unplug. some bluetooth keyboards
support multiple pairings, and in many cases switch automatically among
hosts.

In article <t3ds8l$1bvi$1@gioia.aioe.org>, alister
<alister.ware@ntlworld.com> wrote:

>
> the reason is actually quite simple Apple are NOT primarily a technology
> company, they are a fashion house. change for the sake of change every 6
> months & your customer base will buy everything again because they simply
> must have the latest model or die of embarrassment

that's nothing more than the usual bashing, and is demonstrably false.