In article <t3dsgh$1bvi$2@gioia.aioe.org>, alister
<alister.ware@ntlworld.com> wrote:

> >> > Apple replaced one method of connecting headphones/earbuds with
> >> > another.
> >>
> >> replaces a universal interface with a proprietary one that can only be
> >> sourced from Apple of an Apple licensed supplier.
> >
> > usb-c is also licensed, for the many android devices that do not have an
> > analog headphone jack anymore.
>
> Yep it is not just apple, others have seen that it can generate an
> additional revenue stream & have adopted the same strategy

that is false. the reason it's licensed is to guarantee compatibility
and prevent damaging devices, including for products not yet released.
the revenue is negligible and covers the testing that's done.

for those who want to cheap out, there are knock-off versions.
sometimes they work. sometimes they don't.

In article <t3dc3r$qan$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Andy Burnelli
<spam@nospam.com> wrote:

> The loss of functionality you advocate for is like Apple removing the
> industry standard USB-A ports on Apple computers which negates the use of a
> simple USB thumb drive.

the industry is moving to usb-c, which is a more capable port as well
as being reversible, making it more convenient too.

google was first to switch to it on their chromebooks. the hp spectre
is entirely usb-c. apple's ports are both usb-c/thunderbolt, as are
some other makers (not all support both, however).

there are usb-c thumb drives as well as ones with both usb-c and usb-a
ports for backwards compatibility.

it's a non-issue, born out of ignorance.

On 16/04/2022 11:41, nospam wrote:
> In article <t3ds8l$1bvi$1@gioia.aioe.org>, alister
> <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> the reason is actually quite simple Apple are NOT primarily a technology
>> company, they are a fashion house. change for the sake of change every 6
>> months & your customer base will buy everything again because they simply
>> must have the latest model or die of embarrassment
>
> that's nothing more than the usual bashing, and is demonstrably false.

Its demonstrably true.

As it is of all consumer product companies. Sales are everything, no
matter what the reason for them, and consumers are by their very nature
less sophisticated buyers, for whom brand image is usually far more
relevant than performance or total lifetime cost.

--
“Progress is precisely that which rules and regulations did not foresee,”

– Ludwig von Mises

On Sat, 16 Apr 2022 06:19:28 GMT
meff <email@example.com> wrote:

> Oof I'm sorry you lost your parallel port. It must have stung when
> they took those industry-standard connectors out of computers for
> USB.

Parallel ports are still used as control interfaces to small CNC
machines in preference to USB because they provide better real time
control. Old computers with parallel ports command a surprising premium
because of this.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/

The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 16/04/2022 11:41, nospam wrote:
>> that's nothing more than the usual bashing, and is demonstrably false.
>
> Its demonstrably true.

As always, both are true. Some value one thing more, others the other, and
some people hate everything ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

In article <t3e7am$7hi$1@dont-email.me>, The Natural Philosopher
<tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> >> the reason is actually quite simple Apple are NOT primarily a technology
> >> company, they are a fashion house. change for the sake of change every 6
> >> months & your customer base will buy everything again because they simply
> >> must have the latest model or die of embarrassment
> >
> > that's nothing more than the usual bashing, and is demonstrably false.
>
> Its demonstrably true.

it is not.

> As it is of all consumer product companies. Sales are everything, no
> matter what the reason for them, and consumers are by their very nature
> less sophisticated buyers, for whom brand image is usually far more
> relevant than performance or total lifetime cost.

except that people buy apple products because they do what people want
them to do, not because of any mythical brand image.

performance is as good or better than the competition and total
lifetime cost is less, often by quite a bit.

<https://bgr.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/galaxy-s21-ultra-vs-iphone-1
3-pro-geekench-5-benchmark.jpg>
<https://bgr.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/pixel-5-vs-iphone-13-pro-gee
kench-5-benchmark.jpg>

<https://www.computerworld.com/article/3131906/ibm-says-macs-are-even-ch
eaper-to-run-than-it-thought.html>
IBM today told the record-setting seventh Jamf Nation User Conference
that it is saving even more money by deploying Macs across the
company than it thought: each Mac deployment saves the company up
to $535 over four years, in contrast to the $270 per Mac it claimed
last year.
....
This is fully in line with experiences shared in 2015, when Previn
said just 5 percent of IBM¹s Mac users needed to call the help desk;
In contrast, an astonishing 40 percent of PC staff request tech
support help. At IBM last year just 25 staff supported 30,000 Macs.

In article <t3ech5$d93$1@dont-email.me>, A. Dumas
<alexandre@dumas.fr.invalid> wrote:

> >> that's nothing more than the usual bashing, and is demonstrably false.
> >
> > Its demonstrably true.
>
> As always, both are true.

you snipped the context.

> Some value one thing more, others the other, and
> some people hate everything ¯\_(?)_/¯

that is true.

however, the claim that apple is a fashion brand is flat out false.

On 4/15/2022 9:10 PM, Eli the Bearded wrote:
> In comp.sys.raspberry-pi, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>> On 4/14/2022 4:24 AM, Patrick wrote:
>>> On 14/04/2022 00:11, Eli the Bearded wrote:
>>>> I've seen bluetooth keyboards about the size of a small TV remote:
>>>> https://www.amazon.com/Miritz-Wireless-Keyboard-Touchpad-Control/dp/B01LZIIH24/
>>>> That size is perfect, but I'd really prefer USB not bluetooth.
>>> I have two of these, I can use them on anything with a USB socket.
>
> Use them "wired" to a USB socket?
>
>> Except that he explicitly stated that he wanted a _wired_ keyboard.
>
> Yes.
>
>> Part of the confusion is that what he really appears to not want is a
>> Bluetooth keyboard.
>
> I didn't know about the 2.4 GHz connection. Maybe that's more reliable
> than bluetooth, maybe not. I'd still rather the wire. (Which probably
> puts me in an extreme minority.)

It has three advantages over Bluetooth. First, it uses less power so you
won't be recharging the keyboard very often. Second, there is no pairing
necessary, it's all automatic. Third, it works with just about any
device with a USB port, including Android phones. Fourth, the connection
doesn't ever drop. The disadvantage of 2.4GHz is that it requires a
separate receiver, though sometimes, depending on the device, so does
Bluetooth. For example, I use a 2.4GHz wireless keyboard with my smart
TV which is a lot easier than trying to enter credentials or search
criteria with the TV remote. The TV has no Bluetooth but it doe shave a
USB port.

But yes, there is the hassle of charging the batteries on wireless
devices. Fortunately, a keyboard is not like a Bluetooth speaker or
Bluetooth headphones, it uses very little power so recharging it isn't
required very often. Also, you could just leave in plugged into the USB
port all the time, constantly charging, so you're no worse off than with
a wired keyboard.

On 4/15/2022 11:19 PM, meff wrote:
> On 2022-04-16, Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> wrote:
>> The loss of functionality you advocate for is like Apple removing the
>> industry standard USB-A ports on Apple computers which negates the use of a
>> simple USB thumb drive.
>
> Oof I'm sorry you lost your parallel port. It must have stung when
> they took those industry-standard connectors out of computers for
> USB.

In 2016, Tim Cook did display a prototype of an iPhone that was much
more fully featured in terms of interfaces, but alas, no parallel port.
See
<https://www.concept-phones.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/iphone-7-ideal-tim-cook-joy-of-tech-parody-490x743.jpg>.

In any case, Apple brought back the USB-A ports on the new Macbooks.
They also brought back the SD card reader and the HDMI port, and it
still has a 3.5mm headphone jack. See
<https://www.extremetech.com/computing/328357-apples-new-14-inch-macbook-pro-brings-back-the-ports-youve-missed>.
Enough grumbling by Mac users about dongle hell, plus the departure of
Jony Ive probably is what led to this decision.

In article <t3eim3$pnh$1@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

> > I didn't know about the 2.4 GHz connection. Maybe that's more reliable
> > than bluetooth, maybe not. I'd still rather the wire. (Which probably
> > puts me in an extreme minority.)
>
> It has three advantages over Bluetooth. First, it uses less power so you
> won't be recharging the keyboard very often.

that is false. bluetooth uses *less* power, with some bluetooth
keyboards and mice having as much as two years on a single charge.

> Second, there is no pairing
> necessary, it's all automatic.

modern bluetooth peripherals do not need pairing, and for those that
do, it's a trivial one-time step. hardly an advantage.

> Third, it works with just about any
> device with a USB port, including Android phones.

that may be true, but just about everything has bluetooth so that's not
an advantage either.

> Fourth,

you said three advantages (not that any of what you listed is an
advantage).

> the connection
> doesn't ever drop.

nor does bluetooth.

although, if you move far enough away, any connection will drop.

> The disadvantage of 2.4GHz is that it requires a
> separate receiver, though sometimes, depending on the device, so does
> Bluetooth.

that is a significant disadvantage, especially for a mobile device such
as a phone or tablet.

a dongle also uses up a usb port, eliminating the advantage of going
wireless.

another disadvantage is only one dongle can be used, thereby limiting
it to only one device. a second dongle will cause all sorts of
problems.

some bluetooth keyboards support multiple pairings and can work with
multiple devices, often automatically switching between them, which is
another *huge* advantage of bluetooth.

On 4/15/2022 11:47 PM, Jan Panteltje wrote:

<snip>

> I have a PCI par port card in one of my PCs
> its the only real I/O on a PC.
> Now with raspi we have GPIO, a BIG win!!!!

The parallel port is also super easy to use. Even in the early days you
could use the four control lines as inputs so it was bi-directional, 4
bits at a time, but as it evolved it became fully bi-directional with a
direction control bit (which caused problems for some users who would
inadvertently set the bit to input).

In article <t3ejj2$i5$1@dont-email.me>, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
wrote:

> In any case, Apple brought back the USB-A ports on the new Macbooks.

no they didn't.

the new macbooks have usb-c/thunderbolt ports. there are no usb-a ports:

<https://www.apple.com/v/macbook-pro-14-and-16/b/images/specs/ports_14_i
nch__r5y6iul60wa6_large.jpg>

> They also brought back the SD card reader and the HDMI port, and it
> still has a 3.5mm headphone jack.

that's because macbooks are nowhere near as space-constrained as a
phone as well as used in very different ways, with very different
needs.

Am 16.04.22 um 16:27 schrieb nospam:
> In article <t3eim3$pnh$1@dont-email.me>, sms
> <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>
>>> I didn't know about the 2.4 GHz connection. Maybe that's more reliable
>>> than bluetooth, maybe not. I'd still rather the wire. (Which probably
>>> puts me in an extreme minority.)
>>
>> It has three advantages over Bluetooth. First, it uses less power so you
>> won't be recharging the keyboard very often.
>
> that is false. bluetooth uses *less* power, with some bluetooth
> keyboards and mice having as much as two years on a single charge.

That is an urban legend. That is not possible.
Even if not used these devices have perhaps only a minimal residual energy.

--
De gustibus non est disputandum

In article <t3ep8e$bna$1@dont-email.me>, Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch>
wrote:

> >>> I didn't know about the 2.4 GHz connection. Maybe that's more reliable
> >>> than bluetooth, maybe not. I'd still rather the wire. (Which probably
> >>> puts me in an extreme minority.)
> >>
> >> It has three advantages over Bluetooth. First, it uses less power so you
> >> won't be recharging the keyboard very often.
> >
> > that is false. bluetooth uses *less* power, with some bluetooth
> > keyboards and mice having as much as two years on a single charge.
>
> That is an urban legend. That is not possible.

it's reality.

here are two:

<https://www.microsoft.com/en-ww/accessories/products/keyboards/microsof
t-bluetooth-keyboard>
Microsoft Bluetooth® Keyboard pairs seamlessly with your laptop via
Bluetooth® and delivers long battery life up to 2 years.

<https://www.logitech.com/en-us/products/keyboards/k380-multi-device.htm
l>
Battery: 2 x AAA
Battery: 24 months

there are also bluetooth devices that use coin batteries which last for
a year or more.

> Even if not used these devices have perhaps only a minimal residual energy.

if it's not used, it will last even longer.

lithium aa/aaa batteries have a ~10 year shelf life.

Am 16.04.22 um 18:14 schrieb nospam:
> life up to 2 years.

No.

And we discuss accumulators not ordinary one-way batteries which are
environmental killing waste from day one and not acceptable anymore.

But even these batteries are considerably drained after a year.

In addition: These performance claims by the manufacturers are never
cross checked by anybody and are *always* unrealistic.

My rechargeable Apple-mouse was said to last 3 month with a full charge.
No way! With my usage profile I can be happy if it lasts 3 weeks.
The completely unacceptable environmental profile of the battery driven
mouse was the reason why I exchanged it for one with an accumulator. 3
weeks max.

--
De gustibus non est disputandum

On 16/04/2022 15:02, nospam wrote:
> In article <t3e7am$7hi$1@dont-email.me>, The Natural Philosopher
> <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>>>> the reason is actually quite simple Apple are NOT primarily a technology
>>>> company, they are a fashion house. change for the sake of change every 6
>>>> months & your customer base will buy everything again because they simply
>>>> must have the latest model or die of embarrassment
>>>
>>> that's nothing more than the usual bashing, and is demonstrably false.
>>
>> Its demonstrably true.
>
> it is not.
>
>> As it is of all consumer product companies. Sales are everything, no
>> matter what the reason for them, and consumers are by their very nature
>> less sophisticated buyers, for whom brand image is usually far more
>> relevant than performance or total lifetime cost.
>
> except that people buy apple products because they do what people want
> them to do, not because of any mythical brand image.
>
No, they buy them because they feel safe with them and convince
themselves that what they do is what they really wanted to do

> performance is as good or better than the competition and total
> lifetime cost is less, often by quite a bit.
>
> <https://bgr.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/galaxy-s21-ultra-vs-iphone-1
> 3-pro-geekench-5-benchmark.jpg>
> <https://bgr.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/pixel-5-vs-iphone-13-pro-gee
> kench-5-benchmark.jpg>
>
> <https://www.computerworld.com/article/3131906/ibm-says-macs-are-even-ch
> eaper-to-run-than-it-thought.html>
> IBM today told the record-setting seventh Jamf Nation User Conference
> that it is saving even more money by deploying Macs across the
> company than it thought: each Mac deployment saves the company up
> to $535 over four years, in contrast to the $270 per Mac it claimed
> last year.
> ...
> This is fully in line with experiences shared in 2015, when Previn
> said just 5 percent of IBM¹s Mac users needed to call the help desk;
> In contrast, an astonishing 40 percent of PC staff request tech
> support help. At IBM last year just 25 staff supported 30,000 Macs.

I have never called the help line for a knife and fork

--
"It is an established fact to 97% confidence limits that left wing
conspirators see right wing conspiracies everywhere"

In article <t3erhr$uoi$1@dont-email.me>, Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch>
wrote:

> > life up to 2 years.
>
> No.

yes.

there are several such models. i linked two. there are others.

> And we discuss accumulators not ordinary one-way batteries which are
> environmental killing waste from day one and not acceptable anymore.

it doesn't matter what type of battery it uses.

> But even these batteries are considerably drained after a year.

not always. it depends on the battery and usage.

> In addition: These performance claims by the manufacturers are never
> cross checked by anybody and are *always* unrealistic.

actually, they're reasonably accurate.

but if it turns out to be 1.5 years instead of 2 years, very few will
complain.

the fact is that battery life for modern bluetooth devices is not an
issue whatsoever.

On 4/16/2022 3:49 AM, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> On Sat, 16 Apr 2022 06:19:28 GMT
> meff <email@example.com> wrote:
>
>> Oof I'm sorry you lost your parallel port. It must have stung when
>> they took those industry-standard connectors out of computers for
>> USB.
>
> Parallel ports are still used as control interfaces to small CNC
> machines in preference to USB because they provide better real time
> control. Old computers with parallel ports command a surprising premium
> because of this.

You can still buy a PCI card with a parallel port. Old laptops are a
different story. Some had a parallel port, others had a CardBus or
ExpressCard slot and could use a parallel port card. USB parallel port
card adapters are not going to be useful for real-time control.

On 2022-04-16 9:43 a.m., The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 16/04/2022 15:02, nospam wrote:
>> In article <t3e7am$7hi$1@dont-email.me>, The Natural Philosopher
>> <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>>> the reason is actually quite simple Apple are NOT primarily a
>>>>> technology
>>>>> company, they are a fashion house. change for the sake of change
>>>>> every 6
>>>>> months & your customer base will buy everything again because they
>>>>> simply
>>>>> must have the latest model or die of embarrassment
>>>>
>>>> that's nothing more than the usual bashing, and is demonstrably false.
>>>
>>> Its demonstrably true.
>>
>> it is not.
>>
>>> As it is of all consumer product companies. Sales are everything, no
>>> matter what the reason for them, and consumers are by their very nature
>>> less sophisticated buyers, for whom brand image is usually far more
>>> relevant than performance or total lifetime cost.
>>
>> except that people buy apple products because they do what people want
>> them to do, not because of any mythical brand image.
>>
> No, they buy them because they feel safe with them and convince
> themselves that what they do is what they really wanted to do

Riiiiiiiiight.

Everyone in the world who disagrees with you is an easily swayed sheep!

Apple's products have exceptional loyalty. People buy them, and then buy
another and another.

The reasonable conclusion is that they do so because they are satisfied
with them; even happy with them.

>
>
>> performance is as good or better than the competition and total
>> lifetime cost is less, often by quite a bit.
>>
>> <https://bgr.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/galaxy-s21-ultra-vs-iphone-1
>> 3-pro-geekench-5-benchmark.jpg>
>> <https://bgr.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/pixel-5-vs-iphone-13-pro-gee
>> kench-5-benchmark.jpg>
>>
>> <https://www.computerworld.com/article/3131906/ibm-says-macs-are-even-ch
>> eaper-to-run-than-it-thought.html>
>>    IBM today told the record-setting seventh Jamf Nation User Conference
>>    that it is saving even more money by deploying Macs across the
>>    company than it thought: each Mac deployment saves the company up
>>    to $535 over four years, in contrast to the $270 per Mac it claimed
>>    last year.
>> ...
>>    This is fully in line with experiences shared in 2015, when Previn
>>    said just 5 percent of IBM¹s Mac users needed to call the help desk;
>>    In contrast, an astonishing 40 percent of PC staff request tech
>>    support help. At IBM last year just 25 staff supported 30,000 Macs.
>
> I have never called the help line for a knife and fork

Which is relevant...

....how, exactly?

On 2022-04-16 3:55 a.m., The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 16/04/2022 11:41, nospam wrote:
>> In article <t3ds8l$1bvi$1@gioia.aioe.org>, alister
>> <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> the reason is actually quite simple Apple are NOT primarily a technology
>>> company, they are a fashion house. change for the sake of change every 6
>>> months & your customer base will buy everything again because they
>>> simply
>>> must have the latest model or die of embarrassment
>>
>> that's nothing more than the usual bashing, and is demonstrably false.
>
> Its demonstrably true.
>
> As it is of all consumer product companies. Sales are everything, no
> matter what the reason for them, and consumers are by their very nature
> less sophisticated buyers, for whom brand image is usually far more
> relevant than performance or total lifetime cost.

Is that all consumers...

....except you?

You're clever enough to see through it, right?

:-)

On 2022-04-16 1:43 a.m., Jan Panteltje wrote:
> On a sunny day (Sat, 16 Apr 2022 07:36:23 GMT) it happened meff
> <email@example.com> wrote in <Xlu6K.430643$t2Bb.327174@fx98.iad>:
>
>> On 2022-04-16, Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> I have a PCI par port card in one of my PCs
>>> its the only real I/O on a PC.
>>> Now with raspi we have GPIO, a BIG win!!!!
>>>
>>> Apple is overpriced crap.
>>
>> Nobody said anything about Apple being priced well :) I'm just here to
>> say the 3.5mm TRS jack is good to be dead. It was a bad connector and
>> it's well and good to be gone. I really don't care about Apple either
>> way. I'm an Android user myself and I'm _glad_ I don't have to bother
>> with 3.5mm jacks anymore.
>
> We live in a world where making things redundant by introducing new standards
> to seLL new stuf seems to be the normal

Apple didn't delete the 3.5mm (1/8") stereo headphone jack to sell knew
stuff.

They did it because a deep jack like that makes for a mechanism for
damaging the phone if it gets levered.

It's also more difficult to achieve acceptable levels of water
resistance with more openings in the phone; particularly an older port
design never designed with water resistance in mind.

The Lightning port was designed for water resistance.

> I have many 3.5 mm earbuds and expensive Sennheiser headphone with 3.5 mm jacks

<https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MMX62AM/A/lightning-to-35-mm-headphone-jack-adapter>

Solved for $9.

> If Apple or anybody wants to exclude me from using it then they have already lost me as a buyer
> (not that I would even consider Apple).

Showing your open-minded nature!

> I have a Xiaomi Android phone for what was it? 140 Euro or so and it has a 3.5 mm head phone connector
> plenty of apps available for it.
>
> All my rapis have 3.5 mm jacks up to and including the Pi4 8 GB.

What is a "rapi"

> I have USB audio sticks for mike in and audio out for it too with 3.5 mm Jack
> That brings me to all those mikes...

Which can be connected with the same adapter...

In article <t3f0i6$4jt$1@dont-email.me>, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:

> > All my rapis have 3.5 mm jacks up to and including the Pi4 8 GB.
>
> What is a "rapi"

raspberry pi, one of the two groups to which this is cross-posted, for
reasons known only to 'arlen'.

note that the raspberry pi zero (all varieties) does *not* have a 3,5mm
jack.

Alan wrote:
> They did it because a deep jack like that makes for a mechanism for
> damaging the phone if it gets levered.

No quite the oppsite. Given a certain torque (determined by the
outside), the forces damaging stuff inside are smaller the longer the
lever is and vice versa.

--
/¯\ No | Dipl.-Ing. F. Axel Berger Tel: +49/ 221/ 7771 8067
\ / HTML | Roald-Amundsen-Straße 2a Fax: +49/ 221/ 7771 8069
 X in | D-50829 Köln-Ossendorf http://berger-odenthal.de
/ \ Mail | -- No unannounced, large, binary attachments, please! --

On 2022-04-16 2:31 a.m., alister wrote:
> On Sat, 16 Apr 2022 08:50:58 -0000 (UTC), A. Dumas wrote:
>
>> alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>>> the reason is actually quite simple Apple are NOT primarily a
>>> technology company, they are a fashion house. change for the sake of
>>> change every 6 months & your customer base will buy everything again
>>> because they simply must have the latest model or die of embarrassment
>>
>> This is a gross generalisation which might be true for a lot of people
>> and works well for Apple but a generalisation nonetheless. I am an old
>> unix/linux user who switched from Windows to Apple around 2008 because
>> as a developer (formerly web now mostly C) it "just" works. I don't need
>> gamer graphics but I do appreciate not running system updates for a
>> whole day after a week of not using a computer. And yes, I like the
>> aesthetics of both the hardware and (mostly) the software. Linux doesn't
>> work for me as a day to day desktop. I like tinkering as a hobby but I
>> don't want to be a busy system administrator for my own system.
>>
>> I only recently switched from Android to iPhone and yes I miss the
>> headphone jack but I got a €5 adapter. It kinda sucks but modern (high
>> end)
>> Android phones also often don't have it anymore.
>
>
>
> This much is true, unlike most Fashion houses Apple do make high Quality
> products that work well, its not the product I dislike it is the Corporate
> mentality & ethos of the company.
>
>

What specific parts of the "mentality & ethos" do you find objectionable?

In article <625B0804.81E643D3@Berger-Odenthal.De>, Axel Berger
<Spam@Berger-Odenthal.De> wrote:

> Alan wrote:
> > They did it because a deep jack like that makes for a mechanism for
> > damaging the phone if it gets levered.
>
> No quite the oppsite. Given a certain torque (determined by the
> outside), the forces damaging stuff inside are smaller the longer the
> lever is and vice versa.

he's correct. torquing it *will* damage the phone, usually with part of
the plug stuck inside, requiring service to remove the plug and repair
any additional damage.