Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:

> Path: uni-berlin.de!fu-berlin.de!news.szaf.org!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!reader5.news.weretis.net!news.solani.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
> From: Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch>
> Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android
> Subject: Re: Is Ad-blocking illegal in your country?
> Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2023 07:57:08 +0100
> Message-ID: <ts7e84$nkup$4@solani.org>
> References: <ts2baq$kf15$1@dont-email.me> <ts2dns$m3c1$1@solani.org>
> <ts6cvd$15fft$1@dont-email.me> <xkbeydk1nt7y$.dlg@v.nguard.lh>
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Injection-Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2023 06:57:08 -0000 (UTC)
> Injection-Info: solani.org;
> logging-data="775129"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@news.solani.org"
> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:102.0)
> Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.7.2
> Cancel-Lock: sha1:t54m478HdxRRykGDih6G6BnqxjY=
> Content-Language: de-CH, en-US
> X-User-ID: eJwFwYEBwDAEBMCVCP9kHCX2H6F3MCo7nKBjsVqOujr4MJsV53EMmxRt2ZQ9t7MjHBDr1z8cSxEH
> In-Reply-To: <xkbeydk1nt7y$.dlg@v.nguard.lh>
> Lines: 24
> Xref: uni-berlin.de comp.mobile.android:100669
>
> Am 10.02.23 um 23:43 schrieb VanguardLH:
>> I've seen some users express their hyper-sensitivity regarding ads. Any
>> ad is a bad ad despite these whiners are leeching someone else's
>> resources to provide all the other content. The whine of the super
>> entitled. That's like users that get 1 spam a month, or less, going
>> beserk that they've been spammed.
>>
>> Why do I mention such hyper-sensitivity? Because when Adblock Plus
>> decided to allow "good" ads, by default, to reward sites that didn't use
>> every damn trick to force feed their ad, and enable good ad sources by
>> default (by not blocking them), many Adblock Plus users went beserk.
>
> Correctly so. There are more powerful solutions against unsolicited
> intrusion. Adblock Plus is simply deception and does not prevent the
> more severe techniques. There are much more powerful solutions that are
> in addition *Open Source*.
>
> What "advice" can we expect from people still using such dinosaurs:
> User-Agent: 40tude_Dialog/2.0.15.41 running on a OS that is inherently
> insecure and disrespects the privacy of its users from the very beginning.

And yet the regex filtering on ALL headers still exceeds anything your
Tbird client has. And I can define event, message handling, and custom
scripts that let me tailor the client to how I want rather than put up
with what the Tbird dev community wants to push at me. Dialog was way
in advance to Tbird, and still is 20 years after it was abandoned.

I take it you were an Adblock Plus user that went beserk from your
response here.

As to unsolicited intrusion, that is a lie. YOU connected to the web
site. THEY get to decide what content they deliver to you. Learn what
the hell is your property and what is not. YOUR computer, YOUR client,
but THEIR property at the web site. Stop whining like you are entitled
to dictate what content they deliver. It's not your property!

Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:

> My philosophy is to prevent them all. Most advertisments carry along
> much more severe payloads like tracking element, crosscripting and more.

I would recede from saying "most". "Many" is more appropriate. There
are enough bad actors to ruin the ad experience.

> A script blocker like NoScript is absolutely mandatory. Together with
> uBlock Origin it is an unbeaten team. Works on Windows, Mac, Linux and
> Android which is very important for my environment.
>
> https://noscript.net
>
> The NoScript Security Suite is *Free Open Source Software* (FOSS)
> providing extra protection for Firefox (on Android, too!), Chrome, Edge,
> Brave and other web browsers. Install NoScript now!

Nah, no thanks. I'll continue using uBlock Origin (uBO). I used
NoScript, but moved to uBO. It does more than NoScript. There are
misleading features in NoScript. For example, its cross-site script
protection (XSS) is worthless as it applies ONLY to sites you've already
visited. If you've globally blocked Javascript, XSS isn't possible. If
you've enabled Javascript ONLY for the visited domain, XSS is also
impossible. As I recall with NoScript, any rule you define is global,
so it is applied to all sites even where you don't want it applied. You
have to define an exclusion rule for per-site control. No thanks.
Expert mode in uBO defaults to creating a per-site rule, but I can use
the matrix table to choose the rule is global. NoScript is good. Once
I moved to uBO, there was no desire to go back to NoScript, and doubling
up on having both is inane.

By the way, if you use Chrome, or a variant thereof, you do know that
most adblockers are headed to the chopping block, right? Oh, the joys
of Manifest v3. First they'll disappear from the Chrome store, then
Google will decide to remove Manifest v2 support in Chrome, and it'll
just be Manifest v3 which restricts the size of memory tables and remove
the API that allowed adblockers to block the unwanted resource requests.

For Firefox, their plan is to, for now, support both Manifest v2 and v3.
That won't last.

> NoScript also provides the most powerful anti-XSS protection ever
> available in a browser.

I thought you globally blocked Javascript, by default, so every site you
visit will initially have Javascript disabled until you choose to enable
it there. If so, if and when you enable Javascript for a site, you
don't restrict it to just that domain?

On 2/11/2023 3:13 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
> AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:
>> VanguardLH wrote:

>>> If blocking ads becomes more prevalent, more sites will do what
>>> many are doing now: alerting you that they won't deliver some or
>>> all of their content because you are using an adblocker.

>> Perhaps the ad blockers will update eventually. How about if they
>> build a browser that reports back to the site that all is well but
>> locally still gets rid of the ads?

> Alas, that means wasting bandwidth and CPU to retrieve and process
> the unwanted content, and then modify the rendered version of the web
> page.

It was just an idea.

> Grease Monkey possibly could do what you want.

You misunderstand. My system works fine for ME. My (bad) idea was for
those who might want to read a site refusing to load because of an
adblocker.

> There are links to help resources, but you'll probably want to
> reserve a copy of "Coding with Javascript For Dummies" book before
> you start.

Not me. The last coding I did was in Assembly in the 60s. I went to and
retired from a non-technical profession after that. So I am a registered
non-geek now...

> You'd be doing a lot of work to eliminate the "bad" ads since likely
> you don't care if there are "good" ads.

Bad ads? Good ads? I'm not prejudiced. I prefer to kill ALL ads. Thanks
for your efforts though...

Am 11.02.23 um 23:18 schrieb VanguardLH:
> Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
>
>> Path: uni-berlin.de!fu-berlin.de!news.szaf.org!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!reader5.news.weretis.net!news.solani.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
>> From: Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch>
>> Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android
>> Subject: Re: Is Ad-blocking illegal in your country?
>> Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2023 07:57:08 +0100
>> Message-ID: <ts7e84$nkup$4@solani.org>
>> References: <ts2baq$kf15$1@dont-email.me> <ts2dns$m3c1$1@solani.org>
>> <ts6cvd$15fft$1@dont-email.me> <xkbeydk1nt7y$.dlg@v.nguard.lh>
>> Mime-Version: 1.0
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>> Injection-Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2023 06:57:08 -0000 (UTC)
>> Injection-Info: solani.org;
>> logging-data="775129"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@news.solani.org"
>> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:102.0)
>> Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.7.2
>> Cancel-Lock: sha1:t54m478HdxRRykGDih6G6BnqxjY=
>> Content-Language: de-CH, en-US
>> X-User-ID: eJwFwYEBwDAEBMCVCP9kHCX2H6F3MCo7nKBjsVqOujr4MJsV53EMmxRt2ZQ9t7MjHBDr1z8cSxEH
>> In-Reply-To: <xkbeydk1nt7y$.dlg@v.nguard.lh>
>> Lines: 24
>> Xref: uni-berlin.de comp.mobile.android:100669
>>
>> Am 10.02.23 um 23:43 schrieb VanguardLH:
>>> I've seen some users express their hyper-sensitivity regarding ads. Any
>>> ad is a bad ad despite these whiners are leeching someone else's
>>> resources to provide all the other content. The whine of the super
>>> entitled. That's like users that get 1 spam a month, or less, going
>>> beserk that they've been spammed.
>>>
>>> Why do I mention such hyper-sensitivity? Because when Adblock Plus
>>> decided to allow "good" ads, by default, to reward sites that didn't use
>>> every damn trick to force feed their ad, and enable good ad sources by
>>> default (by not blocking them), many Adblock Plus users went beserk.
>>
>> Correctly so. There are more powerful solutions against unsolicited
>> intrusion. Adblock Plus is simply deception and does not prevent the
>> more severe techniques. There are much more powerful solutions that are
>> in addition *Open Source*.
>>
>> What "advice" can we expect from people still using such dinosaurs:
>> User-Agent: 40tude_Dialog/2.0.15.41 running on a OS that is inherently
>> insecure and disrespects the privacy of its users from the very beginning.
>
> And yet the regex filtering on ALL headers still exceeds anything your
> Tbird client has. And I can define event, message handling, and custom

40tude does not master UTF-8. That is an absolute killer criterion.
Nothing to add.

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

Am 11.02.23 um 23:40 schrieb VanguardLH:
> Nah, no thanks. I'll continue using uBlock Origin (uBO). I used
> NoScript, but moved to uBO.

I use both simultaneously on all platforms.

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

On 2023-2-11 3:52, VanguardLH wrote:
> ...
To be obedient or to be blocked, you seem to have got the impression by
google's example. That's devil's trick -- but not the case. To bring
google down to their knees, the gov have made great effort, payed much
cost, and borne much pressure. But it still did, to cast the impression
to the world. It seems the strategy kinds of worked. "You want presence
in china? then kneel down before me! or look at google!" Emperor
Qienlong once did similar to an English envoy, and Qing empire was
rotten to die. Now china is more powerful, yet even more dependent to
the world. It cannot afford to be another closed north korea.

Anyway, my point is that mozilla doesn't have to do that blocking. It
should let chinese gov make that choice and take the burden. Making a
tamed version for chinese -- it is a shame to mozilla, and insult to
chinese. I don't even believe mozilla has any market interest in china;
this is all done by foolishness.

--
Regards,
Lu Wei
IM: xmpp:luweitest@riotcat.org
PGP: 0xA12FEF7592CCE1EA

Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:

> Am 11.02.23 um 23:18 schrieb VanguardLH:
>> Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
>>
>>> Path: uni-berlin.de!fu-berlin.de!news.szaf.org!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!reader5.news.weretis.net!news.solani.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
>>> From: Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch>
>>> Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android
>>> Subject: Re: Is Ad-blocking illegal in your country?
>>> Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2023 07:57:08 +0100
>>> Message-ID: <ts7e84$nkup$4@solani.org>
>>> References: <ts2baq$kf15$1@dont-email.me> <ts2dns$m3c1$1@solani.org>
>>> <ts6cvd$15fft$1@dont-email.me> <xkbeydk1nt7y$.dlg@v.nguard.lh>
>>> Mime-Version: 1.0
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>>> Injection-Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2023 06:57:08 -0000 (UTC)
>>> Injection-Info: solani.org;
>>> logging-data="775129"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@news.solani.org"
>>> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:102.0)
>>> Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.7.2
>>> Cancel-Lock: sha1:t54m478HdxRRykGDih6G6BnqxjY=
>>> Content-Language: de-CH, en-US
>>> X-User-ID: eJwFwYEBwDAEBMCVCP9kHCX2H6F3MCo7nKBjsVqOujr4MJsV53EMmxRt2ZQ9t7MjHBDr1z8cSxEH
>>> In-Reply-To: <xkbeydk1nt7y$.dlg@v.nguard.lh>
>>> Lines: 24
>>> Xref: uni-berlin.de comp.mobile.android:100669
>>>
>>> Am 10.02.23 um 23:43 schrieb VanguardLH:
>>>> I've seen some users express their hyper-sensitivity regarding ads. Any
>>>> ad is a bad ad despite these whiners are leeching someone else's
>>>> resources to provide all the other content. The whine of the super
>>>> entitled. That's like users that get 1 spam a month, or less, going
>>>> beserk that they've been spammed.
>>>>
>>>> Why do I mention such hyper-sensitivity? Because when Adblock Plus
>>>> decided to allow "good" ads, by default, to reward sites that didn't use
>>>> every damn trick to force feed their ad, and enable good ad sources by
>>>> default (by not blocking them), many Adblock Plus users went beserk.
>>>
>>> Correctly so. There are more powerful solutions against unsolicited
>>> intrusion. Adblock Plus is simply deception and does not prevent the
>>> more severe techniques. There are much more powerful solutions that are
>>> in addition *Open Source*.
>>>
>>> What "advice" can we expect from people still using such dinosaurs:
>>> User-Agent: 40tude_Dialog/2.0.15.41 running on a OS that is inherently
>>> insecure and disrespects the privacy of its users from the very beginning.
>>
>> And yet the regex filtering on ALL headers still exceeds anything your
>> Tbird client has. And I can define event, message handling, and custom
>
> 40tude does not master UTF-8. That is an absolute killer criterion.
> Nothing to add.

I'm still old school. Everything Usenet is to be plain text (ASCII-7).
I don't do binary newsgroups. I don't speak or read anything other than
[American] English. I don't want posters inserting fluffy cutsy
characters in their messages. Moving to Tbird gives me nothing I want,
but does lose features that I definitely need.

Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:

> VanguardLH:
>
>> Nah, no thanks. I'll continue using uBlock Origin (uBO). I used
>> NoScript, but moved to uBO.
>
> I use both simultaneously on all platforms.

I don't see the point. What does NoScript do that uBO (in Expert mode)
does not?

At one time, I added uMatrix to uBO, but once I switched to Expert mode
in uBO then uMatrix was superfluous. I think uMatrix got discontinued,
because uBO includes what uMatrix did.

Lu Wei <luweitest@gmail.com> wrote:

> Anyway, my point is that mozilla doesn't have to do that blocking. It
> should let chinese gov make that choice and take the burden. Making a
> tamed version for chinese -- it is a shame to mozilla, and insult to
> chinese. I don't even believe mozilla has any market interest in china;
> this is all done by foolishness.

Wouldn't the China gov't choice be to block the entire Mozilla site
rather than attempt to block specific web pages whose navpath in URLs
can change? Mozilla probably doesn't want everything Mozilla blocked in
China, but that is what would happen if China decided to block Mozilla
in their Great Firewall. Leaving it to the Chinese gov't instead of
placating them in part means Mozilla loses all presence in China.

A full-blown kowtowing bow with forehead pressed to ground is more
degrading than a curtsy dip.

Am 12.02.23 um 17:31 schrieb VanguardLH:
> Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
>> 40tude does not master UTF-8. That is an absolute killer criterion.
>> Nothing to add.
>
> I'm still old school. Everything Usenet is to be plain text (ASCII-7).
> I don't do binary newsgroups. I don't speak or read anything other than
> [American] English. I don't want posters inserting fluffy cutsy
> characters in their messages. Moving to Tbird gives me nothing I want,
> but does lose features that I definitely need.

Small world, I must admit and certainly your choice.

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

Am 12.02.23 um 17:51 schrieb VanguardLH:
> Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
>
>> VanguardLH:
>>
>>> Nah, no thanks. I'll continue using uBlock Origin (uBO). I used
>>> NoScript, but moved to uBO.
>>
>> I use both simultaneously on all platforms.
>
> I don't see the point. What does NoScript do that uBO (in Expert mode)
> does not? >
> At one time, I added uMatrix to uBO,

This is nonsense. NoScript does completely different things than uBlock
Origin that simply works lists.

But I think we better stop the discussion here.

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

On Sun, 12 Feb 2023 10:31:45 -0600, VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:

>I'm still old school. Everything Usenet is to be plain text (ASCII-7).
>I don't do binary newsgroups. I don't speak or read anything other than
>[American] English. I don't want posters inserting fluffy cutsy
>characters in their messages.

Me too, for all the above.

>Moving to Tbird gives me nothing I want,
>but does lose features that I definitely need.

What features would you lose in Thunderbird?

Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:

> Am 12.02.23 um 17:31 schrieb VanguardLH:
>> Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
>>> 40tude does not master UTF-8. That is an absolute killer criterion.
>>> Nothing to add.
>>
>> I'm still old school. Everything Usenet is to be plain text (ASCII-7).
>> I don't do binary newsgroups. I don't speak or read anything other than
>> [American] English. I don't want posters inserting fluffy cutsy
>> characters in their messages. Moving to Tbird gives me nothing I want,
>> but does lose features that I definitely need.
>
> Small world, I must admit and certainly your choice.

Curious as to why you think 40tude Dialog does not support UTF-8? There
are several settings regarding charset support, and I can list the order
of charset rendering, and UTF-8 is among them. Plus I can read posts
encoded using UTF-8.

Currently I have Dialog configured to support the following charsets
when viewing articles: ISO-8859-1, UTF-7, and UTF-8. For posting, I can
use: us-ascii, iso-8859-*, UTF-8, UTF-7, and gb2312. The charsets are
used in those preference orders. I could add lots more, but there's
really no point to do so. Unless I include a non-ASCII character, my
posts will be us-ascii coded, but I can still see view and submit posts
using multiple charsets which includes UTF-8. I just choose not to.

ASCII covers all the characters that I'm likely to need to write an
article. Possibly when I reply the quoted content might require my
article to use UTF-8.

<Aside>

Just for info, I did use Thunderbird several times. I've trialed it
perhaps 5 times over as many years, or more. Every time I'd get peeved
enough with my current choice of newsreader, and when I had time, I'd
trial a slew of newsreaders: Thunderbird, Xnew, XanaNews, Forte Agent,
and others I no longer remember. Each trial was, at least, a month, but
more often a couple months, so it took a while. The longest Tbird
trial, the last one, was for 6 months, but I gave up on it after too
many limitations or disappointments and went back to 40tude Dialog for a
newsreader, and moved to eM Client for an e-mail client (not the UWP app
version which has bugs, like no startup option although I eventually
figured out how to add a UWP app as a startup program, but the Win32
program version).

Each time I went through newsreader trials, 40tude Dialog was trialed
but failed. It didn't meet my criteria for functionality compared to
other newsreaders. Not until I discovered it could be modified with
scripts to add new features, how to customize its GUI, define new
functions, create scripts for handling message delivery (beyond what
filters could do), event scripts, and custom scripts, learning Perl
regex (wow, the learning never stops on that) and finding I could apply
regex to ANY header, not just overview headers, and spent time delving
into all its settings did I decide Dialog was the best choice for me.
It had the power, but mostly after configuration or adaption. It was a
lot more effort than I planned to expend to trial a newsreader, but the
more I'd delve the more I found it had more than other newsreaders.
Sometimes I'm like a pit bull that won't release a tire swing. Politely
that's called determination. However, back then, there was a library of
scripts to review (use as-is or adapt), I knew some of Object Pascal
programming (but not the scope within which my scripts were used since
it wasn't documented), and there was plenty of help. Nowadays Bernd is
the only one that offers help on Dialog, the library site disappeared,
and I don't want to re-learn anymore Object Pascal, especially since I
don't know the variables or objects that in-scope of where I can define
scripts (and, no, I'm not taking over the project). If I had not been
very determined in what might've been my last trial of Dialog to delve
into it, I would've passed on it. The vast majority of users would
never delve into Dialog that far, so they'd pass on it, too.

While my choice of newsreader (40tude Dialog) was abandoned in 2005, how
much of Thunderbird's NNTP code has changed in the last 18 years? That
it has more recent versions doesn't mean much has changed. Other than
OAUTH2, what has changed in Tbird for e-mail support in 18 years? POP
and IMAP pretty much work today as they did 2+ decades ago. New doesn't
mean better, but it does mean possibly more bugs (old bugs fixed, new
bugs introduced). I still drive a 20-year old car. My older car was
16-years old when it got scrapped 7 years ago. A lot of my tools in
home, garage, and car are so old that I can't tell you how old they are.
A crescent wrench works the same back then as now. My vacuum cleaner is
about 18 years old. Old doesn't mean unusable, or even lacking.

I've trialed Tbird many times. Dialog didn't make the cut several
times, and only until I decided to dig deep into it did it excel against
Tbird.

</Aside>

Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:

> VanguardLH:
>
>> Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
>>
>>> VanguardLH:
>>>
>>>> Nah, no thanks. I'll continue using uBlock Origin (uBO). I used
>>>> NoScript, but moved to uBO.
>>>
>>> I use both simultaneously on all platforms.
>>
>> I don't see the point. What does NoScript do that uBO (in Expert mode)
>> does not? >
>> At one time, I added uMatrix to uBO,
>
> This is nonsense. NoScript does completely different things than uBlock
> Origin that simply works lists.
>
> But I think we better stop the discussion here.

Okay, but I was genuinely interested in what you thought NoScript did
that uBlock Origin does not. If there's enough in NoScript that does
not overlap or get obviated by uBO then I might add NoScript. I've used
both, and decided uBO was better and covered what NoScript did.

On 2/12/23 8:57 AM, VanguardLH wrote:

> A full-blown kowtowing bow with forehead pressed to ground is more
> degrading than a curtsy dip.

Remember Obama's 90-degree bow to some middle-eastern oil-sheik? His
staff probably thought it unseemly to do a full kowtow.

--
Cheers, Bev
Warning: Objects in mirror appear smarter than they are.

On 2/12/23 9:04 AM, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
> Am 12.02.23 um 17:31 schrieb VanguardLH:
>> Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
>>> 40tude does not master UTF-8. That is an absolute killer criterion.
>>> Nothing to add.
>>
>> I'm still old school. Everything Usenet is to be plain text (ASCII-7).
>> I don't do binary newsgroups. I don't speak or read anything other than
>> [American] English. I don't want posters inserting fluffy cutsy
>> characters in their messages. Moving to Tbird gives me nothing I want,
>> but does lose features that I definitely need.

I've used TBird for news ever since it was Netscape .9. I used tin
before that. Same comments about fluffiness. I don't even want simple
smileys converted to graphics :-(

> Small world, I must admit and certainly your choice.

--
Cheers, Bev
Warning: Objects in mirror appear smarter than they are.

Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:

> On Sun, 12 Feb 2023 10:31:45 -0600, VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:
>
>>I'm still old school. Everything Usenet is to be plain text (ASCII-7).
>>I don't do binary newsgroups. I don't speak or read anything other than
>>[American] English. I don't want posters inserting fluffy cutsy
>>characters in their messages.
>
> Me too, for all the above.
>
>>Moving to Tbird gives me nothing I want,
>>but does lose features that I definitely need.
>
> What features would you lose in Thunderbird?

The ability to define regex in filters. Not just some of regex, but the
entire Perl regex library.

The ability to exercise my filters on ALL headers, not just overview
headers.

More robust customization of the GUI. Any toolbar can be customized to
add/remove buttons using menu choices, or add a custom toolbar to which
a script has been defined.

Defining custom scripts to assign to buttons to add to toolbars.

Defining scripts on message handling. For example, I have a script that
strips the stupid PGP sig text from the boddies of posts.

Defining event scripts, like what happens on startup and shutdown of
Dialog.

Defining a slew of which charsets to support when viewing posts, or when
submitting them, which gives me an orderly fallback in charsets, and
eliminating using one charset for all.

Multiple views, like "Hide Ignored Messages". I don't delete unwanted
posts. I mark them as Ignored using my filters, and use a default view
of "Hide Ignores Messages". If I need to see those otherwise hidden
messages, I can click on a button that was assigned to the "View All
Messages" view, or use the menu to change views.

When assigning flags (Ignore or Watched) to a message, an option marks
the entire subthread with that flag instead of just the selected message
(by me or by filter). If I don't want to see an unwanted article, like
a troll, spam, malcontent, peurile, proselytizer, etc, I also don't want
to see any replies to the unwanted post. The entire subthread gets
hidden, but I can easily unhide it when needed.

Automatic backup (via scripts defining both action and a timer) of the
message store. However, I've since just used backup and sync programs
to do that since none of the database files are locked to prevent access
during a backup or sync.

Changing fonts anywhere: newsgroup/message list pane, headers for both
newsgroup, headers, and message panes, and in bodies of messages. I can
also choose foreground and background colors. While I upped the DPI in
Windows to make text more legible on a high resolution monitor, some
programs are not DPI-aware, like Dialog, and many other [old] programs.
Viewing [old] non-DPI aware programs on a high resolution monitor means
the same number of pixels, but in a smaller space, so characters get
smaller (same number of pixels on higher resolution means less height
and wide for the characters). By letting me alter font size just about
everywhere, I can effectively make Dialog DPI aware. I would guess
Tbird became DPI-aware a while ago, but I still see users asking how to
change fonts in various parts of its GUI.

Cross-post management. If enabled, options are:
Only apply for articles with an Xref header (*). Xref shows to which
newsgroups an article was submitted. Almost every article I read has
this header. A lot easier than tracking Message-IDs to determine when
an article in one newsgroup appears in another newsgroup.
Mark article: read (*), or do not retrieve article header.
Only check for cross-posts when retrieving new articles. (*)
(*) Those are the settings that I use.

Filters can set weightings on messages with which you could decide to
view messages that only exceed (or don't exceed) a weighting threshold.
One use would be to heavily weight spam or other unwanted articles, and
then use a view that doesn't show messages that meet or exceed a
weighting threshold. I've never used weight (aka scoring). Instead I
use:
Flag the message as Ignored (so it won't be seen in the default "Hide
Ignored Messages" view mode).
Default to the "Hide Ignored Messages" view mode.
Colorize the unwanted message for both background and foreground
colors (in case I switch to "All Messages" view).
With scoring, I could assign a score to each filter, so I'd know which
filter got applied to a message. I don't use scoring, so I use coloring
to decide which filter got applied to a message. There are 41 colors I
can assign to foreground and background giving me 1681 color
combinations to flag a message; however, not all color combos make for
legible text, so the color combo count is lower, but still gives me lots
of colors to flag messages to let me know which rule got exercised on a
message.

Using filters, I can mark messages that are over 30 days (gray
foreground), and those over 60 days (silver background). Messages become
less relevant or important over time. A purge option deletes posts over
90 days since those are way too old for me to spend any time on them.
Purging (expiration) can be set globally, or on a per-group basis.

I can change the pane layout, and also what content is shown in each
pane. I just stick with the 3-pane layout of newsgroups, headers, and
body which I what Tbird shows, too, and Outlook, and lots of other
clients.

Showing the logs is very easy. Enable/disable the log panel. Drag its
top edge to change its size. Logging includes: logging (showing
activity), active threads, queued jobs, and errors. Rather than hide
the log pane, I just drag its top edge down to hide it (the column
headers still show). If something goes awry, I drag it up to see what's
happening now or recently.

I have never encountered database corruption when I compact its
database. I've never had a corrupted database nor a truncated database
after compaction of a corrupt one.

It can do e-mail, like Tbird, but I prefer to keep separate my
newsreader and e-mail clients. I simply don't define any mail servers
in Dialog, so I cannot accidentally send an e-mail using Dialog. I do
e-mail separately in a different client (eM Client). Those who use
Tbird almost invariably use it for both Usenet and e-mail. Occasionally
you'll see someone post an e-mail into Usenet when using a combo client.
I'm not sure you can separate 2 instances of Tbird so one only does
Usenet, and the other only does e-mail. Of course, you could use Tbird
for Usenet, and some other program as the e-mail client.

Searching by Message-ID to find an article is very easy via menu choice.
You can even have it search Google Groups on Message-ID. Alas, Google
thwarted direct access to Usenet articles by requiring a user to log
into Google Groups before a search can then be requested.

You can send Cancels using Dialog; however, most Usenet providers will
ignore them unless sent under very limiting scenarios. The same for
Supercedes (where you want to replace an article with a new one). I've
never tried nor had the need to cancel or superceded any posts.

Some of the above can be performed using add-ons. I don't need add-ons
for Dialog (plus it doesn't that plug-in interface). Dialog was
designed back when old-school programs were self-configurable (i.e., no
add-ons) for GUI and function configurability. While some of the above
is doable using config settings, some involve scripts, and that's where
the differentiation occurs between casual and power users.

If posts are missing in a thread in Dialog (they weren't available at
the server, they expired at the server, or for some reason the server
didn't send them), there is a Reconstruct Thread option. Sometimes I'll
see a subthread that looks orphaned or truncated because I'm missing the
parent articles. I can have Dialog request the server send the missing
articles *if* they're still on the server. Then, if retrieved, I can
see the entire thread from starting post.

If I need to do something now but the client is busy, like downloading
tens of thousands of new messages from a newly subscribed newsgroup, I
can tell Dialog to stop all tasks via menu or a toolbar button. Dialog
then becomes fully responsive without spending CPU cycles on new
articles that I might not care about at the time and can retrieve later.

I can bookmark articles. If I know that I later want to review a
previously viewed article, I can bookmark that article to get back to it
quickly. It is like bookmarks in web browsers: instead of jumping to a
particular web page at a site, I can jump back to a particular article.
Similarly, you can add markers to messages, and then jump forward/back
to marked messages.

I can define multiple identities, as can Tbird. To change identities
when composing a new message, there is a drop-down listbox to make it
easy. I don't remember how you change identities on-the-fly in Tbird.

There's probably some more features that are better or just different in
Dialog than in Tbird, but those are the runs I notice when roaming
through the menu bar in Dialog. It's probably 3+ years since my last
trial of Tbird that lasted 6 months, and several shorter trials before.

On 2/12/2023 8:51 AM, VanguardLH wrote:
> Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
>
>> VanguardLH:
>>
>>> Nah, no thanks. I'll continue using uBlock Origin (uBO). I used
>>> NoScript, but moved to uBO.
>>
>> I use both simultaneously on all platforms.
>
> I don't see the point. What does NoScript do that uBO (in Expert mode)
> does not?
>
> At one time, I added uMatrix to uBO, but once I switched to Expert mode
> in uBO then uMatrix was superfluous. I think uMatrix got discontinued,
> because uBO includes what uMatrix did.

The issue with uBlock Origin and NoScript are that you can't use them on
all platforms since are not available for iOS/iPadOS, though NoScript is
available on Firefox for Android. When the non-WebKit browsers become
available on iOS/iPadOS it's likely that NoScript will be available for
iOS/iPadOS.

I am not replying to anything Vanguard wrote, so I am top-posting this
one comment. I believe everything you've written would make an
excellent post in alt.comp.software.thunderbird, and even
de.comm.software.mozilla.mailnews.
I would suggest you post it there, and if you wish I would do it
referring to it having come from somewhere else. So many points of
interest in this post!

On 2/12/2023 1:08 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
> Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 12 Feb 2023 10:31:45 -0600, VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm still old school. Everything Usenet is to be plain text (ASCII-7).
>>> I don't do binary newsgroups. I don't speak or read anything other than
>>> [American] English. I don't want posters inserting fluffy cutsy
>>> characters in their messages.
>>
>> Me too, for all the above.
>>
>>> Moving to Tbird gives me nothing I want,
>>> but does lose features that I definitely need.
>>
>> What features would you lose in Thunderbird?
>
> The ability to define regex in filters. Not just some of regex, but the
> entire Perl regex library.
>
> The ability to exercise my filters on ALL headers, not just overview
> headers.
>
> More robust customization of the GUI. Any toolbar can be customized to
> add/remove buttons using menu choices, or add a custom toolbar to which
> a script has been defined.
>
> Defining custom scripts to assign to buttons to add to toolbars.
>
> Defining scripts on message handling. For example, I have a script that
> strips the stupid PGP sig text from the boddies of posts.
>
> Defining event scripts, like what happens on startup and shutdown of
> Dialog.
>
> Defining a slew of which charsets to support when viewing posts, or when
> submitting them, which gives me an orderly fallback in charsets, and
> eliminating using one charset for all.
>
> Multiple views, like "Hide Ignored Messages". I don't delete unwanted
> posts. I mark them as Ignored using my filters, and use a default view
> of "Hide Ignores Messages". If I need to see those otherwise hidden
> messages, I can click on a button that was assigned to the "View All
> Messages" view, or use the menu to change views.
>
> When assigning flags (Ignore or Watched) to a message, an option marks
> the entire subthread with that flag instead of just the selected message
> (by me or by filter). If I don't want to see an unwanted article, like
> a troll, spam, malcontent, peurile, proselytizer, etc, I also don't want
> to see any replies to the unwanted post. The entire subthread gets
> hidden, but I can easily unhide it when needed.
>
> Automatic backup (via scripts defining both action and a timer) of the
> message store. However, I've since just used backup and sync programs
> to do that since none of the database files are locked to prevent access
> during a backup or sync.
>
> Changing fonts anywhere: newsgroup/message list pane, headers for both
> newsgroup, headers, and message panes, and in bodies of messages. I can
> also choose foreground and background colors. While I upped the DPI in
> Windows to make text more legible on a high resolution monitor, some
> programs are not DPI-aware, like Dialog, and many other [old] programs.
> Viewing [old] non-DPI aware programs on a high resolution monitor means
> the same number of pixels, but in a smaller space, so characters get
> smaller (same number of pixels on higher resolution means less height
> and wide for the characters). By letting me alter font size just about
> everywhere, I can effectively make Dialog DPI aware. I would guess
> Tbird became DPI-aware a while ago, but I still see users asking how to
> change fonts in various parts of its GUI.
>
> Cross-post management. If enabled, options are:
> Only apply for articles with an Xref header (*). Xref shows to which
> newsgroups an article was submitted. Almost every article I read has
> this header. A lot easier than tracking Message-IDs to determine when
> an article in one newsgroup appears in another newsgroup.
> Mark article: read (*), or do not retrieve article header.
> Only check for cross-posts when retrieving new articles. (*)
> (*) Those are the settings that I use.
>
> Filters can set weightings on messages with which you could decide to
> view messages that only exceed (or don't exceed) a weighting threshold.
> One use would be to heavily weight spam or other unwanted articles, and
> then use a view that doesn't show messages that meet or exceed a
> weighting threshold. I've never used weight (aka scoring). Instead I
> use:
> Flag the message as Ignored (so it won't be seen in the default "Hide
> Ignored Messages" view mode).
> Default to the "Hide Ignored Messages" view mode.
> Colorize the unwanted message for both background and foreground
> colors (in case I switch to "All Messages" view).
> With scoring, I could assign a score to each filter, so I'd know which
> filter got applied to a message. I don't use scoring, so I use coloring
> to decide which filter got applied to a message. There are 41 colors I
> can assign to foreground and background giving me 1681 color
> combinations to flag a message; however, not all color combos make for
> legible text, so the color combo count is lower, but still gives me lots
> of colors to flag messages to let me know which rule got exercised on a
> message.
>
> Using filters, I can mark messages that are over 30 days (gray
> foreground), and those over 60 days (silver background). Messages become
> less relevant or important over time. A purge option deletes posts over
> 90 days since those are way too old for me to spend any time on them.
> Purging (expiration) can be set globally, or on a per-group basis.
>
> I can change the pane layout, and also what content is shown in each
> pane. I just stick with the 3-pane layout of newsgroups, headers, and
> body which I what Tbird shows, too, and Outlook, and lots of other
> clients.
>
> Showing the logs is very easy. Enable/disable the log panel. Drag its
> top edge to change its size. Logging includes: logging (showing
> activity), active threads, queued jobs, and errors. Rather than hide
> the log pane, I just drag its top edge down to hide it (the column
> headers still show). If something goes awry, I drag it up to see what's
> happening now or recently.
>
> I have never encountered database corruption when I compact its
> database. I've never had a corrupted database nor a truncated database
> after compaction of a corrupt one.
>
> It can do e-mail, like Tbird, but I prefer to keep separate my
> newsreader and e-mail clients. I simply don't define any mail servers
> in Dialog, so I cannot accidentally send an e-mail using Dialog. I do
> e-mail separately in a different client (eM Client). Those who use
> Tbird almost invariably use it for both Usenet and e-mail. Occasionally
> you'll see someone post an e-mail into Usenet when using a combo client.
> I'm not sure you can separate 2 instances of Tbird so one only does
> Usenet, and the other only does e-mail. Of course, you could use Tbird
> for Usenet, and some other program as the e-mail client.
>
> Searching by Message-ID to find an article is very easy via menu choice.
> You can even have it search Google Groups on Message-ID. Alas, Google
> thwarted direct access to Usenet articles by requiring a user to log
> into Google Groups before a search can then be requested.
>
> You can send Cancels using Dialog; however, most Usenet providers will
> ignore them unless sent under very limiting scenarios. The same for
> Supercedes (where you want to replace an article with a new one). I've
> never tried nor had the need to cancel or superceded any posts.
>
> Some of the above can be performed using add-ons. I don't need add-ons
> for Dialog (plus it doesn't that plug-in interface). Dialog was
> designed back when old-school programs were self-configurable (i.e., no
> add-ons) for GUI and function configurability. While some of the above
> is doable using config settings, some involve scripts, and that's where
> the differentiation occurs between casual and power users.
>
> If posts are missing in a thread in Dialog (they weren't available at
> the server, they expired at the server, or for some reason the server
> didn't send them), there is a Reconstruct Thread option. Sometimes I'll
> see a subthread that looks orphaned or truncated because I'm missing the
> parent articles. I can have Dialog request the server send the missing
> articles *if* they're still on the server. Then, if retrieved, I can
> see the entire thread from starting post.
>
> If I need to do something now but the client is busy, like downloading
> tens of thousands of new messages from a newly subscribed newsgroup, I
> can tell Dialog to stop all tasks via menu or a toolbar button. Dialog
> then becomes fully responsive without spending CPU cycles on new
> articles that I might not care about at the time and can retrieve later.
>
> I can bookmark articles. If I know that I later want to review a
> previously viewed article, I can bookmark that article to get back to it
> quickly. It is like bookmarks in web browsers: instead of jumping to a
> particular web page at a site, I can jump back to a particular article.
> Similarly, you can add markers to messages, and then jump forward/back
> to marked messages.
>
> I can define multiple identities, as can Tbird. To change identities
> when composing a new message, there is a drop-down listbox to make it
> easy. I don't remember how you change identities on-the-fly in Tbird.
>
> There's probably some more features that are better or just different in
> Dialog than in Tbird, but those are the runs I notice when roaming
> through the menu bar in Dialog. It's probably 3+ years since my last
> trial of Tbird that lasted 6 months, and several shorter trials before.
>
> The one that first comes to mind is full support of Perl regex, and
> exercisable on ANY header, not just overview headers. That affords me
> strong filtering in Usenet, plus narrowed focus by using regex along
> with combining criteria across multiple headers.

The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:

> VanguardLH:
>
>> I'm still old school. Everything Usenet is to be plain text (ASCII-7).
>> I don't do binary newsgroups. I don't speak or read anything other than
>> [American] English. I don't want posters inserting fluffy cutsy
>> characters in their messages. Moving to Tbird gives me nothing I want,
>> but does lose features that I definitely need.
>
> Same comments about fluffiness. I don't even want simple smileys
> converted to graphics :-(

I hate the automatic smiley conversion, too. If you can write well, you
don't need smileys unless you figure your inference will go over the
readers head.

Say you want to show a ratio that involves a formula, like:

2:(N-1)

which then gets shown as:

2<smileyFrown>N-1

Bad enough when OSes when to icons with titles devolving into
heiroglyphics, but emojis pollute messages. Hieroglyphics were
discontinued because they sucked at communication. So what happens now?
Yeah, let's use them in electronic communication or representation.

"A Tale of Two Cities" or any other literary work would sure be
difficult to read if polluted with emojis or emoticons. As bad as
reading Shakespeare, not being used to the lingo of that day, and having
to stop reading to go to a footnote explaining the meaning of a word or
phrase in about every 2nd sentence.

Not every emoticon starts with a colon or semicolon.

x-D or xD = laughing
D:< = disgust
|;-) = cool
%-) = drunk
o7 = salute
x_x = dead person
+_+ = fainted
O_O = surprised
and on and on goes the stupidity.

And then there's the idiots that want to abbreviate everything because
they're limited by the size of texts via phone. Read, stop to decipher,
read some more, stop to lookup what an abbreviation might mean, read
some more, and repeat repeat repeat. They carry over the same behavior
when they send e-mails.

When I get messages with emojis, emoticons, numerous abbreviations (not
common to the audience of a message), I know the mental age of the
sender. I don't really care about having to deal with texting or
e-mailing with kids of any age.

/Smart/phones are making users dumber.

On Sun, 12 Feb 2023 13:08:15 -0600, VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:

>Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 12 Feb 2023 10:31:45 -0600, VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:
>>
>>>I'm still old school. Everything Usenet is to be plain text (ASCII-7).
>>>I don't do binary newsgroups. I don't speak or read anything other than
>>>[American] English. I don't want posters inserting fluffy cutsy
>>>characters in their messages.
>>
>> Me too, for all the above.
>>
>>>Moving to Tbird gives me nothing I want,
>>>but does lose features that I definitely need.
>>
>> What features would you lose in Thunderbird?
>
>The ability to define regex in filters. Not just some of regex, but the
>entire Perl regex library.
>
>The ability to exercise my filters on ALL headers, not just overview
>headers.
>
>More robust customization of the GUI. Any toolbar can be customized to
>add/remove buttons using menu choices, or add a custom toolbar to which
>a script has been defined.
>
>Defining custom scripts to assign to buttons to add to toolbars.
>
>Defining scripts on message handling. For example, I have a script that
>strips the stupid PGP sig text from the boddies of posts.
>
>Defining event scripts, like what happens on startup and shutdown of
>Dialog.
>
>Defining a slew of which charsets to support when viewing posts, or when
>submitting them, which gives me an orderly fallback in charsets, and
>eliminating using one charset for all.
>
>Multiple views, like "Hide Ignored Messages". I don't delete unwanted
>posts. I mark them as Ignored using my filters, and use a default view
>of "Hide Ignores Messages". If I need to see those otherwise hidden
>messages, I can click on a button that was assigned to the "View All
>Messages" view, or use the menu to change views.
>
>When assigning flags (Ignore or Watched) to a message, an option marks
>the entire subthread with that flag instead of just the selected message
>(by me or by filter). If I don't want to see an unwanted article, like
>a troll, spam, malcontent, peurile, proselytizer, etc, I also don't want
>to see any replies to the unwanted post. The entire subthread gets
>hidden, but I can easily unhide it when needed.
>
>Automatic backup (via scripts defining both action and a timer) of the
>message store. However, I've since just used backup and sync programs
>to do that since none of the database files are locked to prevent access
>during a backup or sync.
>
>Changing fonts anywhere: newsgroup/message list pane, headers for both
>newsgroup, headers, and message panes, and in bodies of messages. I can
>also choose foreground and background colors. While I upped the DPI in
>Windows to make text more legible on a high resolution monitor, some
>programs are not DPI-aware, like Dialog, and many other [old] programs.
>Viewing [old] non-DPI aware programs on a high resolution monitor means
>the same number of pixels, but in a smaller space, so characters get
>smaller (same number of pixels on higher resolution means less height
>and wide for the characters). By letting me alter font size just about
>everywhere, I can effectively make Dialog DPI aware. I would guess
>Tbird became DPI-aware a while ago, but I still see users asking how to
>change fonts in various parts of its GUI.
>
>Cross-post management. If enabled, options are:
> Only apply for articles with an Xref header (*). Xref shows to which
>newsgroups an article was submitted. Almost every article I read has
>this header. A lot easier than tracking Message-IDs to determine when
>an article in one newsgroup appears in another newsgroup.
> Mark article: read (*), or do not retrieve article header.
> Only check for cross-posts when retrieving new articles. (*)
>(*) Those are the settings that I use.
>
>Filters can set weightings on messages with which you could decide to
>view messages that only exceed (or don't exceed) a weighting threshold.
>One use would be to heavily weight spam or other unwanted articles, and
>then use a view that doesn't show messages that meet or exceed a
>weighting threshold. I've never used weight (aka scoring). Instead I
>use:
> Flag the message as Ignored (so it won't be seen in the default "Hide
>Ignored Messages" view mode).
> Default to the "Hide Ignored Messages" view mode.
> Colorize the unwanted message for both background and foreground
>colors (in case I switch to "All Messages" view).
>With scoring, I could assign a score to each filter, so I'd know which
>filter got applied to a message. I don't use scoring, so I use coloring
>to decide which filter got applied to a message. There are 41 colors I
>can assign to foreground and background giving me 1681 color
>combinations to flag a message; however, not all color combos make for
>legible text, so the color combo count is lower, but still gives me lots
>of colors to flag messages to let me know which rule got exercised on a
>message.
>
>Using filters, I can mark messages that are over 30 days (gray
>foreground), and those over 60 days (silver background). Messages become
>less relevant or important over time. A purge option deletes posts over
>90 days since those are way too old for me to spend any time on them.
>Purging (expiration) can be set globally, or on a per-group basis.
>
>I can change the pane layout, and also what content is shown in each
>pane. I just stick with the 3-pane layout of newsgroups, headers, and
>body which I what Tbird shows, too, and Outlook, and lots of other
>clients.
>
>Showing the logs is very easy. Enable/disable the log panel. Drag its
>top edge to change its size. Logging includes: logging (showing
>activity), active threads, queued jobs, and errors. Rather than hide
>the log pane, I just drag its top edge down to hide it (the column
>headers still show). If something goes awry, I drag it up to see what's
>happening now or recently.
>
>I have never encountered database corruption when I compact its
>database. I've never had a corrupted database nor a truncated database
>after compaction of a corrupt one.

>It can do e-mail, like Tbird, but I prefer to keep separate my
>newsreader and e-mail clients. I simply don't define any mail servers
>in Dialog, so I cannot accidentally send an e-mail using Dialog. I do
>e-mail separately in a different client (eM Client). Those who use
>Tbird almost invariably use it for both Usenet and e-mail.

I do e-mail on Thunderbird and Usenet on Agent 6, mostly because when
I did both in TBird, I had problems with Usenet there.

>Occasionally
>you'll see someone post an e-mail into Usenet when using a combo client.

Yes, I've seen it several times, although I've never done it myself.

>I'm not sure you can separate 2 instances of Tbird so one only does
>Usenet, and the other only does e-mail. Of course, you could use Tbird
>for Usenet, and some other program as the e-mail client.

Or the other way around, as I do,

>Searching by Message-ID to find an article is very easy via menu choice.
>You can even have it search Google Groups on Message-ID. Alas, Google
>thwarted direct access to Usenet articles by requiring a user to log
>into Google Groups before a search can then be requested.
>
>You can send Cancels using Dialog; however, most Usenet providers will
>ignore them unless sent under very limiting scenarios. The same for
>Supercedes (where you want to replace an article with a new one). I've
>never tried nor had the need to cancel or superceded any posts.
>
>Some of the above can be performed using add-ons. I don't need add-ons
>for Dialog (plus it doesn't that plug-in interface). Dialog was
>designed back when old-school programs were self-configurable (i.e., no
>add-ons) for GUI and function configurability. While some of the above
>is doable using config settings, some involve scripts, and that's where
>the differentiation occurs between casual and power users.
>
>If posts are missing in a thread in Dialog (they weren't available at
>the server, they expired at the server, or for some reason the server
>didn't send them), there is a Reconstruct Thread option. Sometimes I'll
>see a subthread that looks orphaned or truncated because I'm missing the
>parent articles. I can have Dialog request the server send the missing
>articles *if* they're still on the server. Then, if retrieved, I can
>see the entire thread from starting post.
>
>If I need to do something now but the client is busy, like downloading
>tens of thousands of new messages from a newly subscribed newsgroup, I
>can tell Dialog to stop all tasks via menu or a toolbar button. Dialog
>then becomes fully responsive without spending CPU cycles on new
>articles that I might not care about at the time and can retrieve later.
>
>I can bookmark articles. If I know that I later want to review a
>previously viewed article, I can bookmark that article to get back to it
>quickly. It is like bookmarks in web browsers: instead of jumping to a
>particular web page at a site, I can jump back to a particular article.
>Similarly, you can add markers to messages, and then jump forward/back
>to marked messages.
>
>I can define multiple identities, as can Tbird. To change identities
>when composing a new message, there is a drop-down listbox to make it
>easy. I don't remember how you change identities on-the-fly in Tbird.
>
>There's probably some more features that are better or just different in
>Dialog than in Tbird, but those are the runs I notice when roaming
>through the menu bar in Dialog. It's probably 3+ years since my last
>trial of Tbird that lasted 6 months, and several shorter trials before.
>
>The one that first comes to mind is full support of Perl regex, and
>exercisable on ANY header, not just overview headers. That affords me
>strong filtering in Usenet, plus narrowed focus by using regex along
>with combining criteria across multiple headers.

In article <tsbf3m$1rl9m$2@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

> The issue with uBlock Origin and NoScript are that you can't use them on
> all platforms since are not available for iOS/iPadOS, though NoScript is
> available on Firefox for Android.

there are equivalents on ios that work as well or better.

> When the non-WebKit browsers become
> available on iOS/iPadOS it's likely that NoScript will be available for
> iOS/iPadOS.

again, that is not why.

sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

> The issue with uBlock Origin and NoScript are that you can't use them on
> all platforms since are not available for iOS/iPadOS, though NoScript is
> available on Firefox for Android. When the non-WebKit browsers become
> available on iOS/iPadOS it's likely that NoScript will be available for
> iOS/iPadOS.

Firefox for Android supports add-ons. I use uBlock Origin there, too.
I'm back on Android 8.0, the latest LG provided for my LG V20 phone that
they came out with in 2016 and then discontinued back in 2019. Got 1 OS
update in that time, none since. Now LG dropped out of the smartphone
market, so no OS update will ever be forthcoming. Don't know if later
versions of Android prevents Firefox from support add-ons.

While Chrome for Desktop supports add-ons, Chrome for Android does not.
Tis why Firefox is my primary web browser on my Android phone.

I just check my iPad (iPadOS16), and Firefox over there doesn't support
add-ons. I don't like Apple stuff, but this was a free gift, so I
figured to keep it for doc reading (bigger portable screen). Wonder why
Firefox foregoed add-ons in iPadOS. Might have something to do with
Apple's proprietary extension system. Yeah, I'm not surprised, that's
Apple for you.

sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> wrote:

> I am not replying to anything Vanguard wrote, so I am top-posting this
> one comment. I believe everything you've written would make an
> excellent post in alt.comp.software.thunderbird, and even
> de.comm.software.mozilla.mailnews.
> I would suggest you post it there, and if you wish I would do it
> referring to it having come from somewhere else. So many points of
> interest in this post!

Alas, Mozilla doesn't visit Usenet, especially since they shut down
their servers. I don't if they listen over in their discussion forums.
About the only way to get Mozilla's ears, well, those of the Tbird dev
group, is to submit a Bugzilla ticket, or participate in the dev forums.

Since I quit using TBird about 3 years ago, probably not appropriate for
me to issue any RFE (Request For Enhancement) tickets at Bugzilla since
I could verify or reproduce the requests. I'd not only be an outsider
(of the dev community) but a non-user.

Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:

> Thanks. That's a lot of differences. I'm not sure I want all of those
> features, but some of them might be valuable. Should I try 40tude
> dialog? Is it hard to use? Hard to learn?
>
> If I try it, it won't be for a while; I'm in the midst of too many
> other projects now.

I wouldn't try Dialog unless you want to get into writing scripts and
learn some regex (you can learn more as you go). It is usable as-is
when installed, but typical users would find it missing some features
available in the other NNTP clients. It's not until you get into
customizing its GUI, defining scripts, and using regex in filters on any
header that it shines, and those features are beyond normal users. It's
like getting someone who know batch script in DOS/command shell to learn
Powershell: a big jump.

If you're happy with what your NNTP client can do, and you're not
looking for something that you yourself have experienced as missing, I'd
stick with what you're using.