On Sun, 12 Feb 2023 14:20:33 -0600, VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:

>Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:
>
>> Thanks. That's a lot of differences. I'm not sure I want all of those
>> features, but some of them might be valuable. Should I try 40tude
>> dialog? Is it hard to use? Hard to learn?
>>
>> If I try it, it won't be for a while; I'm in the midst of too many
>> other projects now.
>
>I wouldn't try Dialog unless you want to get into writing scripts and
>learn some regex (you can learn more as you go). It is usable as-is
>when installed, but typical users would find it missing some features
>available in the other NNTP clients. It's not until you get into
>customizing its GUI, defining scripts, and using regex in filters on any
>header that it shines, and those features are beyond normal users. It's
>like getting someone who know batch script in DOS/command shell to learn
>Powershell: a big jump.
>
>If you're happy with what your NNTP client can do, and you're not
>looking for something that you yourself have experienced as missing, I'd
>stick with what you're using.

OK, thanks again. I'll take your advice and stick with Agent.

On 2/12/23 11:45 AM, VanguardLH wrote:
> The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> VanguardLH:
>>
>>> I'm still old school. Everything Usenet is to be plain text (ASCII-7).
>>> I don't do binary newsgroups. I don't speak or read anything other than
>>> [American] English. I don't want posters inserting fluffy cutsy
>>> characters in their messages. Moving to Tbird gives me nothing I want,
>>> but does lose features that I definitely need.

Impressive post later on. I've been wondering this for a while -- Are
you by any chance a native English speaker, or did you learn it as a
second language?

>> Same comments about fluffiness. I don't even want simple smileys
>> converted to graphics :-(

I just checked my TB preferences -- I had the CONVERT TO GRAPHICS
switched on. Curses. One problem solved. I don't remember turning
that on, but I must have done it.

> I hate the automatic smiley conversion, too. If you can write well, you
> don't need smileys unless you figure your inference will go over the
> readers head.

I use the frowney :-( frequently, It just seems appropriate, somehow.
Certainly easier than a long stream of profanity.

> Say you want to show a ratio that involves a formula, like:
>
> 2:(N-1)
>
> which then gets shown as:
>
> 2<smileyFrown>N-1
>
> Bad enough when OSes when to icons with titles devolving into
> heiroglyphics, but emojis pollute messages. Hieroglyphics were
> discontinued because they sucked at communication. So what happens now?
> Yeah, let's use them in electronic communication or representation.
>
> "A Tale of Two Cities" or any other literary work would sure be
> difficult to read if polluted with emojis or emoticons. As bad as
> reading Shakespeare, not being used to the lingo of that day, and having
> to stop reading to go to a footnote explaining the meaning of a word or
> phrase in about every 2nd sentence.

Only need two: Smiley and frowney. Anything more complex than those
requires actual WORDS.

> And then there's the idiots that want to abbreviate everything because
> they're limited by the size of texts via phone.

I understand that. I'm a lousy thumb typist and the less of it I have
to do the better. Fortunately I can dictate the few messages I need to
send with my phone. I'm amazed at how good google's voice-to-text
function is.

> When I get messages with emojis, emoticons, numerous abbreviations (not
> common to the audience of a message), I know the mental age of the
> sender. I don't really care about having to deal with texting or
> e-mailing with kids of any age.

Yup.

> /Smart/phones are making users dumber.

Phone usage + IQ is a constant.

--
Cheers, Bev
If voting could really change things, it would be illegal.
--Revolution Books, New York, New York

The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:

> Are you by any chance a native English speaker, or did you learn it as
> a second language?

Nope. Born in the USA. Parents were born here. Grandparents, too, and
great grandparents. I learned very early that how you speak is not how
you write. Speaking is a copied skill: you learned by copying what you
heard. Writing is an art form. I did like Shakespeare who deliberately
misused words and phrases to better convey what he meant. Much of what
we write is canned language, so the higher the glossary of pre-canned
phrases to which you are learned the more ammo you have to use.

Nowadays in my late sixties, I'm finding my fingers don't obey. They
type out words that may be close, but are incorrect. I touch type, and
am reasonably fast, so muscle memory often takes over when I'm typing
quickly.

> I use the frowney :-( frequently, It just seems appropriate, somehow.
> Certainly easier than a long stream of profanity.

"Alas, I find emoticons represent lack of glossary to effect emotive
content." Notice no emoticon was needed to relate my dismay. "Alas"
obviates the need for a frowney.

> Only need two: Smiley and frowney. Anything more complex than those
> requires actual WORDS.

The lexicon of emojis and emoticons is huge. Probably why users now
rely on software to do the text-to-graphic conversion.

> I understand that. I'm a lousy thumb typist and the less of it I have
> to do the better. Fortunately I can dictate the few messages I need to
> send with my phone. I'm amazed at how good google's voice-to-text
> function is.

I can type faster than I, or most people, can speak. Transliteration
from verbal to written would slow me down. I've tried the voice-to-text
function. Way too many errors. I don't slur my words. I learned early
to pronounce, not talk like I have marbles in my mouth. Most folks say
"budder" instead of "butter". Lazy tongues.

During summers between 10th to 11th, and 11th to 12th grades, I was
attending college taking calculus, physics, and completing the
Composition requirements (yeah, you have to take some Arts classes
despite you majoring in a technical field). My first year (after high
school) had me taking Technical Writing. Everyone else in the class was
in their 4th year, or beyond, and only took the class because it was a
requirement, and most feared speaking in public to read their essays. I
found it fun. When I presented our group's essay, I didn't just and up
to read a boring string of words. I used the blackboard to illustrate
the principles involved (our topic was fiber optics in communication).

>> VanguardLH: /Smart/phones are making users dumber.
>
> Phone usage + IQ is a constant.

Yep. More phone usage means lower IQ, so together they combine to a
constant. However, it appears there some corrosion in the constant:
it's getting lower: IQ loss is no longer linear to phone use increase.
Amazing how many folks suffer phone deficient disease (aka nomophobia)
when they lose their phone, are forced not to use it, or the battery
dies (and they have no battery pack since spare batteries are becoming a
thing of the past with few phones allowing easy swapping the battery).
They even freeze while walking when they can't get a signal.

On 2/12/23 5:42 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
> The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Are you by any chance a native English speaker, or did you learn it as
>> a second language?
>
> Nope. Born in the USA. Parents were born here. Grandparents, too, and
> great grandparents.

Mea culpa. I thought you were the Spaniard :-( Who am I thinking of?
If you think that's bad, you should see how bad I am with faces. Not
quite protopagnosia, but enough to be annoying.

> I learned very early that how you speak is not how
> you write. Speaking is a copied skill: you learned by copying what you
> heard. Writing is an art form. I did like Shakespeare who deliberately
> misused words and phrases to better convey what he meant. Much of what
> we write is canned language, so the higher the glossary of pre-canned
> phrases to which you are learned the more ammo you have to use.

I read Little Women over and over when I was a kid. When I read part of
it again in MUCH later life I was amazed at how many of my speech
patterns came from that book.

> Nowadays in my late sixties, I'm finding my fingers don't obey. They
> type out words that may be close, but are incorrect. I touch type, and
> am reasonably fast, so muscle memory often takes over when I'm typing
> quickly.

What I find disturbing is typing one of the to/two/too or
there/their/they're words wrong. I've known the difference since I was
LITTLE, for chrissake, but apparently my fingers are confused.

>> I use the frowney :-( frequently, It just seems appropriate, somehow.
>> Certainly easier than a long stream of profanity.
>
> "Alas, I find emoticons represent lack of glossary to effect emotive
> content." Notice no emoticon was needed to relate my dismay. "Alas"
> obviates the need for a frowney.

Opinions, like recollections, may differ.

>> Only need two: Smiley and frowney. Anything more complex than those
>> requires actual WORDS.
>
> The lexicon of emojis and emoticons is huge. Probably why users now
> rely on software to do the text-to-graphic conversion.
>
>> I understand that. I'm a lousy thumb typist and the less of it I have
>> to do the better. Fortunately I can dictate the few messages I need to
>> send with my phone. I'm amazed at how good google's voice-to-text
>> function is.
>
> I can type faster than I, or most people, can speak.

Fastest typist I ever knew was my friend the baton twirler. 120 wpm.
Best I could ever manage was 90, but I consistently could do 80. People
talk lots faster than that. I could write shorthand pretty fast, but
couldn't read it worth shit.

> During summers between 10th to 11th, and 11th to 12th grades, I was
> attending college taking calculus, physics, and completing the

Excellent. My son took HS classes in 6th grade and helped the math
teacher set up the HS computers. Son was contemptuous -- they just did
word processing. The school system was shafted royally when they bought
their first system and it took them a LONG time afterward before they
replaced it.

> Composition requirements (yeah, you have to take some Arts classes
> despite you majoring in a technical field).

Hubby was a Physics major at Caltech. The curriculum was the same for
all physics majors, and was heavy in the liberal arts as well as science.

> My first year (after high
> school) had me taking Technical Writing. Everyone else in the class was
> in their 4th year, or beyond, and only took the class because it was a
> requirement, and most feared speaking in public to read their essays. I
> found it fun. When I presented our group's essay, I didn't just and up
> to read a boring string of words. I used the blackboard to illustrate
> the principles involved (our topic was fiber optics in communication).

I was his secretary for a while. He wrote papers by hand and needed
almost NO correction. When we got a computer 2 decades later his
writing wasn't as elegant as when it was hand-written. There must be a
moral of some sort there.

>>> VanguardLH: /Smart/phones are making users dumber.
>>
>> Phone usage + IQ is a constant.
>
> Yep. More phone usage means lower IQ, so together they combine to a
> constant. However, it appears there some corrosion in the constant:
> it's getting lower: IQ loss is no longer linear to phone use increase.

I swear people are getting dumber. I know it's the schools. Daughter
didn't think she was as well educated as I was and was absolutely sure
that her kids got a worse education than she did -- she was heavily into
PTA and substituting and generally being a pain in the ass, and she was
generally outraged at the schools' performance -- and this was a
moderately wealthy city, not a ghetto.

> Amazing how many folks suffer phone deficient disease (aka nomophobia)
> when they lose their phone, are forced not to use it, or the battery
> dies (and they have no battery pack since spare batteries are becoming a
> thing of the past with few phones allowing easy swapping the battery).

Now that I'm used to it I don't like to leave it home, but it's mainly
in my purse just in case I might need it -- like the buck knife that
just gets used to cut dim sum into sharable hunks when the cart-lady
doesn't do it. When my grandspawn were in pre-school they had a
Thanksgiving lunch to which all the grandparents were invited. Along
with the veg the staff handed out chunks of turkey and plastic forks.
Ha. So I cut up our turkey and offered to help the other children. The
grandparents actually flinched.

> They even freeze while walking when they can't get a signal.

It's creepy watching kids cross streets. Also amazing, because the
screens are way too dark to see in full sun.

--
Cheers, Bev
That's my opinion. Ought to be yours.

Am 13.02.23 um 07:42 schrieb The Real Bev:
> Mea culpa. I thought you were the Spaniard 🙁 Who am I thinking of?

Carlos E.R.?

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

On 2023-2-13 3:08, VanguardLH wrote:
>>
>>> Moving to Tbird gives me nothing I want,
>>> but does lose features that I definitely need.
>>
>> What features would you lose in Thunderbird?
>
> The ability to define regex in filters. Not just some of regex, but the
> entire Perl regex library.
>
> The ability to exercise my filters on ALL headers, not just overview
> headers.
>
I am using Thunderbird 52.9 on WindowsXP, so I'd like to give some info I know. Regex support in filters could be added by extension "Expression Search / Google Mail UI":
https://addons.thunderbird.net/en-US/thunderbird/addon/gmailui/
This example seems fit:
headerre:List-Id=/all-test/i or h:list-id or h:sender=/^Bob/ or hr:header~/^value/

This expression searches all messages in the current folder or view with Regular Expressions in the header of the message. The header should be already saved in Thunderbird's .msf database. You can config the headers in 'options/Search More Headers', If you added one header, it will only affect newly added emails unless you do 'repaire folder'.

> More robust customization of the GUI. Any toolbar can be customized to
> add/remove buttons using menu choices, or add a custom toolbar to which
> a script has been defined.
>
> Defining custom scripts to assign to buttons to add to toolbars.
>
The extension "Toolbar Buttons" adds many buttons, and "Custom Buttons" is the one for advanced coders:
https://custombuttons.sourceforge.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=986
https://www.mediafire.com/file/wpf38lupdi4fo0s/custom_buttons-0.0.5.8.9-fixed8-signed.xpi/file

> Defining scripts on message handling. For example, I have a script that
> strips the stupid PGP sig text from the boddies of posts.
>
I think the extension "FiltaQuilla" could do this, however its "javascript actions" are beyond my scope:
https://quickfilters.quickfolders.org/filtaquilla.html

> Defining event scripts, like what happens on startup and shutdown of
> Dialog.
>
ChatGPT tells me: install a script as extension (extensions.autoDisableScopes should set to 0 first) could let it run when TB starts; but there is no way to do this when TB exits.

> Defining a slew of which charsets to support when viewing posts, or when
> submitting them, which gives me an orderly fallback in charsets, and
> eliminating using one charset for all.
>
TB auto-selects appropriate charset (according to "Content-Type:" header I think), or you could select manually (for those without "Content-Type:" headers, as from OE) . The default|fallback charset could be set separately for receiving and sending. The reply is set to the same with the original post, unless overridden.

> Multiple views, like "Hide Ignored Messages". I don't delete unwanted
> posts. I mark them as Ignored using my filters, and use a default view
> of "Hide Ignores Messages". If I need to see those otherwise hidden
> messages, I can click on a button that was assigned to the "View All
> Messages" view, or use the menu to change views.
>
> When assigning flags (Ignore or Watched) to a message, an option marks
> the entire subthread with that flag instead of just the selected message
> (by me or by filter). If I don't want to see an unwanted article, like
> a troll, spam, malcontent, peurile, proselytizer, etc, I also don't want
> to see any replies to the unwanted post. The entire subthread gets
> hidden, but I can easily unhide it when needed.
>
TB could ignore thread or sub-thread manually or by filter. The ignored message and its followups do not show up, unless manually chosen to display in menu.

> Changing fonts anywhere: newsgroup/message list pane, headers for both
> newsgroup, headers, and message panes, and in bodies of messages. I can
> also choose foreground and background colors. While I upped the DPI in
> Windows to make text more legible on a high resolution monitor, some
> programs are not DPI-aware, like Dialog, and many other [old] programs.
> Viewing [old] non-DPI aware programs on a high resolution monitor means
> the same number of pixels, but in a smaller space, so characters get
> smaller (same number of pixels on higher resolution means less height
> and wide for the characters). By letting me alter font size just about
> everywhere, I can effectively make Dialog DPI aware. I would guess
> Tbird became DPI-aware a while ago, but I still see users asking how to
> change fonts in various parts of its GUI.
>
I think a UserChrome.css file could do this:
http://kb.mozillazine.org/UserChrome.css

> Cross-post management. If enabled, options are:
> Only apply for articles with an Xref header (*). Xref shows to which
> newsgroups an article was submitted. Almost every article I read has
> this header. A lot easier than tracking Message-IDs to determine when
> an article in one newsgroup appears in another newsgroup.
> Mark article: read (*), or do not retrieve article header.
> Only check for cross-posts when retrieving new articles. (*)
> (*) Those are the settings that I use.
>
I filter xpost at Hamster gateway, but I think the same could be done at TB by a regex filter rule for "Newsgroups:" header.

> Filters can set weightings on messages with which you could decide to
> view messages that only exceed (or don't exceed) a weighting threshold.
> One use would be to heavily weight spam or other unwanted articles, and
> then use a view that doesn't show messages that meet or exceed a
> weighting threshold. I've never used weight (aka scoring). Instead I
> use:
> Flag the message as Ignored (so it won't be seen in the default "Hide
> Ignored Messages" view mode).
> Default to the "Hide Ignored Messages" view mode.
> Colorize the unwanted message for both background and foreground
> colors (in case I switch to "All Messages" view).
> With scoring, I could assign a score to each filter, so I'd know which
> filter got applied to a message. I don't use scoring, so I use coloring
> to decide which filter got applied to a message. There are 41 colors I
> can assign to foreground and background giving me 1681 color
> combinations to flag a message; however, not all color combos make for
> legible text, so the color combo count is lower, but still gives me lots
> of colors to flag messages to let me know which rule got exercised on a
> message.
>
You practice is worth learning, though lacking scoring support directly is truly a deficiency. Though I can think of a way to imitate scoring: since you can write javascript, you could create javascript filter rule and actions (FiltaQuilla needed) to do it. I wonder if it is feasible.

> Using filters, I can mark messages that are over 30 days (gray
> foreground), and those over 60 days (silver background). Messages become
> less relevant or important over time. A purge option deletes posts over
> 90 days since those are way too old for me to spend any time on them.
> Purging (expiration) can be set globally, or on a per-group basis.
>
The message folder property has "retention policy" setting to keep x days. If you want to run script globally, maybe other script extension like Greasemonkey should be used.>
> Showing the logs is very easy. Enable/disable the log panel. Drag its
> top edge to change its size. Logging includes: logging (showing
> activity), active threads, queued jobs, and errors. Rather than hide
> the log pane, I just drag its top edge down to hide it (the column
> headers still show). If something goes awry, I drag it up to see what's
> happening now or recently.
>
TB has error console but I seldom check it. It's not for average users.

> It can do e-mail, like Tbird, but I prefer to keep separate my
> newsreader and e-mail clients. I simply don't define any mail servers
> in Dialog, so I cannot accidentally send an e-mail using Dialog. I do
> e-mail separately in a different client (eM Client). Those who use
> Tbird almost invariably use it for both Usenet and e-mail. Occasionally
> you'll see someone post an e-mail into Usenet when using a combo client.
> I'm not sure you can separate 2 instances of Tbird so one only does
> Usenet, and the other only does e-mail. Of course, you could use Tbird
> for Usenet, and some other program as the e-mail client.
>
I see posting to Usenet and sending e-mail simultaneously a feature, though I haven't used it but I can imagine the situation when it is useful.
>
> If posts are missing in a thread in Dialog (they weren't available at
> the server, they expired at the server, or for some reason the server
> didn't send them), there is a Reconstruct Thread option. Sometimes I'll
> see a subthread that looks orphaned or truncated because I'm missing the
> parent articles. I can have Dialog request the server send the missing
> articles *if* they're still on the server. Then, if retrieved, I can
> see the entire thread from starting post.
>
That's awesome, but I doubt if the article is not on the server, most server will just refuse the request instead of fetching it from peers.

On 2023-2-13 0:57, VanguardLH wrote:
> Lu Wei <luweitest@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Anyway, my point is that mozilla doesn't have to do that blocking. It
>> should let chinese gov make that choice and take the burden. Making a
>> tamed version for chinese -- it is a shame to mozilla, and insult to
>> chinese. I don't even believe mozilla has any market interest in china;
>> this is all done by foolishness.
>
> Wouldn't the China gov't choice be to block the entire Mozilla site
> rather than attempt to block specific web pages whose navpath in URLs
> can change? Mozilla probably doesn't want everything Mozilla blocked in
> China, but that is what would happen if China decided to block Mozilla
> in their Great Firewall. Leaving it to the Chinese gov't instead of
> placating them in part means Mozilla loses all presence in China.
>
No, as I said in the previous post, the gov won't play "kneel or block"
to all sites of the world foolishly. As in mozilla's case, it is rather
a trivial thing to take it seriously in gov's sight, as my claiming I am
using Noscript and uBlock; they will not knock my door for that
"illegal" action. What provokes them, is rumors as Führer's incapability
-- I did not say or imply anything about that, definitely not.

Even if Mozilla loses all presence in China, I don't think it will
result in any adverse effect on mozilla (it has no profit from china I
think); It will even add good morality impression marks, like google has
deserved, and that will give advantage for future, and vanguards already.

--
Regards,
Lu Wei
IM: xmpp:luweitest@riotcat.org
PGP: 0xA12FEF7592CCE1EA

"Lu Wei" <luweitest@gmail.com> wrote

| Even if Mozilla loses all presence in China, I don't think it will
| result in any adverse effect on mozilla (it has no profit from china I
| think); It will even add good morality impression marks, like google has
| deserved, and that will give advantage for future, and vanguards already.
|

I think that's wishful thinking. Many years ago, Bill
Gates was asked about the widespread theft of Windows
in China. He answered that it didn't bother him because
they would eventually be Windows customers. He apparently
saw the theft as a kind of free sample marketing. Bill
Gates thought he was very, very brilliant, and he'd
already arranged a scam that paid him a fee for every
computer sold in the West. He no doubt figured he'd get
the same arrangement in China. I presume he also
calculated kickback fees for party officials. Business
is business.

That seems to be the general corporate thinking.
They don't really care that China is a dishonest,
oppressive regime. Apple and Dell don't care that their
products are made by virtual slave labor. They only care
that Chinese labor saves them money. Greed makes
each company ignore all else and just look for ways to
find profits. They'd happily sell China prison camp software
for use in China's Tibetan genocide if they thought they
could make a profit.

And despite US free press, the news would probably
never reach the US population. They're too busy diddling
their iPhones, looking for bargains, and reading quotes
from rock stars. Apple's behavior is currently
public knowledge, yet it has no effect on their sales
or the devotion of their customers. That may be difficult
to understand in China. I don't know. The mainstream
media in the US doesn't censor, per se. But to stay
mainstream they must reflect the public consensus. That
means avoiding real controversy. There's a great deal of
information, of all kinds, that goes unnoticed. And there's
a great deal of propaganda.

A good example was the US
COVID response. The CDC told the public that masks
were useless or even bad, because they wanted to make
sure hospitals were not short of asks. It was an understandable,
calculated lie. The surprising thing was that nearly the entire
public then became religiously anti-mask, vehemently
regarding masks as somewhere between dangerous to
health and anti-patriotic.

On 2/13/2023 7:46 AM, Newyana2 preached off-topic:
> A good example was the US
> COVID response. The CDC told the public that masks
> were useless or even bad, because they wanted to make
> sure hospitals were not short of asks. It was an understandable,
> calculated lie. The surprising thing was that nearly the entire
> public then became religiously anti-mask, vehemently
> regarding masks as somewhere between dangerous to
> health and anti-patriotic.

Ah, now I remember one of the reasons I plonked your dumb ass. Please
stop nymshifting.

Am 13.02.23 um 14:46 schrieb Newyana2:
> "Lu Wei" <luweitest@gmail.com> wrote
>
> | Even if Mozilla loses all presence in China, I don't think it will
> | result in any adverse effect on mozilla (it has no profit from china I
> | think); It will even add good morality impression marks, like google has
> | deserved, and that will give advantage for future, and vanguards already.
> |
>
> I think that's wishful thinking. Many years ago, Bill
> Gates was asked about the widespread theft of Windows
> in China. He answered that it didn't bother him because
> they would eventually be Windows customers. He apparently
> saw the theft as a kind of free sample marketing. Bill
> Gates thought he was very, very brilliant, and he'd
> already arranged a scam that paid him a fee for every
> computer sold in the West. He no doubt figured he'd get
> the same arrangement in China. I presume he also
> calculated kickback fees for party officials. Business
> is business.

..
..
..

> A good example was the US
> COVID response. The CDC told the public that masks
> were useless or even bad, because they wanted to make
> sure hospitals were not short of asks. It was an understandable,
> calculated lie. The surprising thing was that nearly the entire
> public then became religiously anti-mask, vehemently
> regarding masks as somewhere between dangerous to
> health and anti-patriotic.

You get more and more senile almost by the day.
What has your lengthy bullshit to do with ad-blocking or Android?

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

Am 13.02.23 um 16:14 schrieb sticks:
> On 2/13/2023 7:46 AM, Newyana2 preached off-topic:
>> A good example was the US
>> COVID response. The CDC told the public that masks
>> were useless or even bad, because they wanted to make
>> sure hospitals were not short of asks. It was an understandable,
>> calculated lie. The surprising thing was that nearly the entire
>> public then became religiously anti-mask, vehemently
>> regarding masks as somewhere between dangerous to
>> health and anti-patriotic.
>
> Ah, now I remember one of the reasons I plonked your dumb ass. Please
> stop nymshifting.

+1

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

On Sun, 12 Feb 2023 19:42:35 -0600, VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:

>The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Are you by any chance a native English speaker, or did you learn it as
>> a second language?
>
>Nope. Born in the USA. Parents were born here. Grandparents, too, and
>great grandparents.

I remember asking you that exact same question quite a few years ago in
one of the Win groups. I asked because you frequently use a sentence
structure that I find jarring. All of the words are there, but they're
in an unusual order. I assumed you were simply mentally translating
another language to English, but I guess not.

On 2/12/23 11:01 PM, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
> Am 13.02.23 um 07:42 schrieb The Real Bev:
>> Mea culpa. I thought you were the Spaniard 🙁 Who am I thinking of?
>
> Carlos E.R.?

Seems reasonable! I thought of him about an hour after I posted that.

--
Cheers, Bev
"If you expect to score points by whining, join a European soccer team."
--Demotivators poster

On 2023-02-13 20:52, The Real Bev wrote:
> On 2/12/23 11:01 PM, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>> Am 13.02.23 um 07:42 schrieb The Real Bev:
>>> Mea culpa.  I thought you were the Spaniard 🙁  Who am I thinking of?
>>
>> Carlos E.R.?
>
> Seems reasonable!  I thought of him about an hour after I posted that.
>

:-)

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

On 2/13/23 12:32 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> On 2023-02-13 20:52, The Real Bev wrote:
>> On 2/12/23 11:01 PM, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>>> Am 13.02.23 um 07:42 schrieb The Real Bev:
>>>> Mea culpa.  I thought you were the Spaniard 🙁  Who am I thinking of?
>>>
>>> Carlos E.R.?
>>
>> Seems reasonable!  I thought of him about an hour after I posted that.
>>
>
> :-)

OK, same question our of sheer curiosity: Your English is perfect. Did
you learn English as a second language or did you grow up speaking it?

I was pretty good at French and Spanish in school, but I never felt I
was really fluent even though I was able to get by when we spent 2 weeks
in Paris. It was WORK! Being the best among a mess of incompetents
isn't really something to brag about.

--
Cheers, Bev
Is it sick to think that 'Commando' is a really fun movie?

Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> wrote:

> VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:
>
>> The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Are you by any chance a native English speaker, or did you learn it as
>>> a second language?
>>
>> Nope. Born in the USA. Parents were born here. Grandparents, too,
>> and great grandparents.
>
> I remember asking you that exact same question quite a few years ago
> in one of the Win groups. I asked because you frequently use a
> sentence structure that I find jarring. All of the words are there,
> but they're in an unusual order. I assumed you were simply mentally
> translating another language to English, but I guess not.

Ever have your English/Composition teacher condemn the use of sentences
that end with a preposition, like they say to never end a sentence with
the word "with"?

Never end a sentence with a preposition unless there is nothing else
to end it with.
Never end a sentence with a preposition unless with which there is
nothing else to end it.

The last one is clunky. Sometimes when you try to get the grammar
correct (versus the underlying linguistics), you'll sound like Yoda.
Grammar attempts to put structure atop of linguistics, but sometimes
grammar fails.

Often I omit "I" at the start of a sentence, because lots of continguous
sentences would all be "I this", "I that", and "I whatever. I may even
deliberately violate grammar to better relate my meaning. Sometimes
I've been tricky in construct when replying to someone that I want to
insult, but not be obvious. They'll respond with an angry reply, I tell
them to reread my reply, they decide I wasn't insulting them, but I was.

On 2023-02-13 22:12, The Real Bev wrote:
> On 2/13/23 12:32 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>> On 2023-02-13 20:52, The Real Bev wrote:
>>> On 2/12/23 11:01 PM, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>>>> Am 13.02.23 um 07:42 schrieb The Real Bev:
>>>>> Mea culpa.  I thought you were the Spaniard 🙁  Who am I thinking of?
>>>>
>>>> Carlos E.R.?
>>>
>>> Seems reasonable!  I thought of him about an hour after I posted that.
>>>
>>
>> :-)
>
> OK, same question our of sheer curiosity:  Your English is perfect.  Did
> you learn English as a second language or did you grow up speaking it?

I started learning maybe when I was twelve. My father insisted, and I
hated it. My father taught me, and two of my friends, one summer. My two
pals soon ran away (even though they got the lessons gratis), but I
wasn't permitted to run.

So I learned...

At the time, schools started to teach one foreign language. Most
students choose French, being easier. Most of them thought stupid to
learn a language. Except those that later worked in the tourism sector.

I was sent a month to Britain on four years for practicing. I was a
ravenous reader, so I bought English books, mostly from Enid Blyton. I
cheated, I claimed I was studying English, not enjoying a novel :-D

But yes, my vocabulary and writing skills comes from that.

I also went to a College in Ottawa, later. Electronics. One subject was
English, aka Technical Writing. The teacher once told me that I was
better than the locals. I was utterly astonished.

But my listening skills are not that good. I need help with subtitles in
order to follow the 100% of the movies. Without that help I miss a
percent. Not with a direct conversation with a person, then I get almost
all, at least after I get used to their accent.

> I was pretty good at French and Spanish in school, but I never felt I
> was really fluent even though I was able to get by when we spent 2 weeks
> in Paris.  It was WORK!   Being the best among a mess of incompetents
> isn't really something to brag about.

:-)

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

Lu Wei <luweitest@gmail.com> wrote:

> VanguardLH wrote:
>
>> The ability to define regex in filters. Not just some of regex, but
>> the entire Perl regex library.
>>
>> The ability to exercise my filters on ALL headers, not just overview
>> headers.
>
> I am using Thunderbird 52.9 on WindowsXP, so I'd like to give some
> info I know. Regex support in filters could be added by extension
> "Expression Search / Google Mail UI":
> https://addons.thunderbird.net/en-US/thunderbird/addon/gmailui/

A popular one is FiltaQuilla; however, from someone else's testing, it
only works on e-mail, not newsgroups. Never tested the one you mention.

>> Defining custom scripts to assign to buttons to add to toolbars.
>
> The extension "Toolbar Buttons" adds many buttons, and "Custom Buttons" is the one for advanced coders:
> https://custombuttons.sourceforge.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=986
> https://www.mediafire.com/file/wpf38lupdi4fo0s/custom_buttons-0.0.5.8.9-fixed8-signed.xpi/file
>
>> Defining scripts on message handling. For example, I have a script
>> that strips the stupid PGP sig text from the boddies of posts.
>
> I think the extension "FiltaQuilla" could do this, however its
> "javascript actions" are beyond my scope:
> https://quickfilters.quickfolders.org/filtaquilla.html

I don't remember it could modify the contents (bodies) of messages, but
maybe it can. Yet you need an add-on for that in Tbird. However, you
are adding a script to modify content. So, in either case, you add
something that wasn't there.

>> Defining event scripts, like what happens on startup and shutdown of
>> Dialog.
>
> ChatGPT tells me: install a script as extension
> (extensions.autoDisableScopes should set to 0 first) could let it run
> when TB starts; but there is no way to do this when TB exits.
>
>> Defining a slew of which charsets to support when viewing posts, or when
>> submitting them, which gives me an orderly fallback in charsets, and
>> eliminating using one charset for all.
>>
> TB auto-selects appropriate charset (according to "Content-Type:"
> header I think), or you could select manually (for those without
> "Content-Type:" headers, as from OE) . The default|fallback charset
> could be set separately for receiving and sending. The reply is set
> to the same with the original post, unless overridden.

I couldn't remember playing with Tbird on those fallback settings.

>> When assigning flags (Ignore or Watched) to a message, an option
>> marks the entire subthread with that flag instead of just the
>> selected message (by me or by filter). ... The entire subthread
>> gets hidden, but I can easily unhide it when needed.
>
> TB could ignore thread or sub-thread manually or by filter. The
> ignored message and its followups do not show up, unless manually
> chosen to display in menu.

Nice to know.

>> Changing fonts anywhere: newsgroup/message list pane, headers for
>> both newsgroup, headers, and message panes, and in bodies of
>> messages. I can also choose foreground and background colors. ... I
>> still see users asking how to change fonts in various parts of its
>> GUI.
>
> I think a UserChrome.css file could do this:
> http://kb.mozillazine.org/UserChrome.css

I've seen lots of users asking how to modify the GUI. They don't know
Javascript, so they need help from someone else on the CSS syntax, plus
the scope is not defined, so they don't know what variables, objects, or
attributes are within scope. They usually have to get the code from
elsewhere. Don't need any of that in Dialog.

Also, I don't remember from where, but I feel support for userchrome.css
is planned to go away. That will piss off a lot of Tbird users, but
Mozilla didn't care about all users of XUL/XPCOM add-ons when they
switched Firefox to Webkit extensions. Maybe that's why you're still
back on the v52ESR release of Tbird, too.

>> Cross-post management. ...
>
> I filter xpost at Hamster gateway, but I think the same could be done
> at TB by a regex filter rule for "Newsgroups:" header.

Except the Newsgroups header is not an overview header at most Usenet
providers. To check if your choice(s) for NNTP server(s) include
Newsgroups as an overview header, try the following in a command shell:

telnet <NNTPserverhostname> 119
list overview.fmt
quit

When I do that at news.individual.net and news.eternal-september.org
(AIOE seems to still be down), Newsgroups is not one of the overview
headers. The overview headers is what your client gets when it requests
an article. You get the other (non-overview) headers when your client
requests the bodies of the articles. And there's the trick for many
NNTP client: configure it to retrieve not just headers but full messages
(headers + bodies). This is okay in text-only newsgroups, or at NNTP
servers that only carry text-only newsgroups, but don't do this if your
client connects to an NNTP server that also serves binary newsgroups.
You definitely don't want to waste time and bandwidth waiting to
download the bodies of binary posts. Instead of waiting until whenever
you choose a message in the header list pane to then retrieve the body
of a message, your client retrieves whole messages when it polls for new
messages. That will ensure you get all headers.

A client, if capable, can issue the XPAT command to the NNTP server.
That asks the server to deliver specific headers from specific articles
base on pattern matching on the contents of the headers of the matching
articles. Rare few servers will support that command. It requests the
server to do a lot of searching on your behalf. Most providers figure
if you want to search on a post then you do it in what your client
retrieved. As I recall, XPAT has vulnerabilities, and why servers also
choose not to support XPAT.

In Tbird, from what I've read in other posts, users have to go through a
special procedure to define non-overview headers, like Newsgroups. Only
after they define the special header can they test on it. You'd still
be stuck with the limited filtering rules in Tbird until you install an
add-on that gives you regex support. Regex isn't just about have far
more robust matching on strings, but also letting you more narrowly
focus the match to eliminate false positives.

>> Showing the logs is very easy. Enable/disable the log panel. ...
>
> TB has error console but I seldom check it. It's not for average users.

I keep seeing posts that tell someone to enable logging to diagnose what
is happening. From what I see at:

https://quickfolders.org/images/support/console-search.png

it looks usable enough to diagnose many problems.

>
>> It can do e-mail, like Tbird, but I prefer to keep separate my
>> newsreader and e-mail clients. I simply don't define any mail servers
>> in Dialog, so I cannot accidentally send an e-mail using Dialog. I do
>> e-mail separately in a different client (eM Client). Those who use
>> Tbird almost invariably use it for both Usenet and e-mail. Occasionally
>> you'll see someone post an e-mail into Usenet when using a combo client.
>> I'm not sure you can separate 2 instances of Tbird so one only does
>> Usenet, and the other only does e-mail. Of course, you could use Tbird
>> for Usenet, and some other program as the e-mail client.
>>
> I see posting to Usenet and sending e-mail simultaneously a feature,
> though I haven't used it but I can imagine the situation when it is
> useful.

Luckily you've never been trapped by a troll who added a header that had
replies get sent via e-mail. Yep, you can have replies to your post go
to e-mail. By adding the following headers (either one), the poster is
trying to get respondents to send their replies via e-mail instead of to
Usenet:

Followup-To: poster
Mail-Copies-To: <emailAddrs>

In addition, I can set a flag (show the header, bold it, and colorize
it) in the message pane when specific headers are present, like when
someone tries to yank the discussion to one of the cross-posted
newsgroups, or to a wholly different newsgroup. The flagging warns me
of the use of a specified header. Trolls will attempt to divert replies
to *.test to hide the replies, or flame other newsgroups by dumping your
reply where it doesn't belong. Some folks will cross-post, but they
only monitor one of the newsgroups, to they use FollowUp-To to direct
replies to their "home" newsgroup the result of which is the discussion
gets yanked from participants in the other newsgroups. Very rude.
Should anyone use the FollowUp-To, X-No-Archive, X-Yes-Archive, or
Mail-Copies-To header, the toolbar of the message pane will show the
header in bold and colorized to warn me. If someone cross-posts (there
are commas in the Newsgroups header), the Newsgroups field in the
toolbar gets bolded to alert me to a cross-posting. When I select a
message, the Message pane's toolbar duplicates the Subject that I see in
the Headers pane, so too often I just start reading the body instead of
looking at the headers. These alerts help me from falling into someone
else's trap, or to decide how I want to handle the message.

On Mon, 13 Feb 2023 22:40:00 +0100, "Carlos E. R."
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

>On 2023-02-13 22:12, The Real Bev wrote:
>> On 2/13/23 12:32 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>> On 2023-02-13 20:52, The Real Bev wrote:
>>>> On 2/12/23 11:01 PM, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>>>>> Am 13.02.23 um 07:42 schrieb The Real Bev:
>>>>>> Mea culpa.  I thought you were the Spaniard ?  Who am I thinking of?
>>>>>
>>>>> Carlos E.R.?
>>>>
>>>> Seems reasonable!  I thought of him about an hour after I posted that.
>>>>
>>>
>>> :-)
>>
>> OK, same question our of sheer curiosity:  Your English is perfect.  Did
>> you learn English as a second language or did you grow up speaking it?
>
>I started learning maybe when I was twelve. My father insisted, and I
>hated it. My father taught me, and two of my friends, one summer. My two
>pals soon ran away (even though they got the lessons gratis), but I
>wasn't permitted to run.
>
>So I learned...
>
>At the time, schools started to teach one foreign language. Most
>students choose French, being easier. Most of them thought stupid to
>learn a language. Except those that later worked in the tourism sector.
>
>
>I was sent a month to Britain on four years for practicing. I was a
>ravenous reader, so I bought English books, mostly from Enid Blyton. I
>cheated, I claimed I was studying English, not enjoying a novel :-D
>
>But yes, my vocabulary and writing skills comes from that.
>
>I also went to a College in Ottawa, later. Electronics. One subject was
>English, aka Technical Writing. The teacher once told me that I was
>better than the locals. I was utterly astonished.
>
>But my listening skills are not that good.

Listening to a foreign language is a lot harder than reading and
writing. You can read and write at whatever speed you're comfortable
with, but you have to listen at the speaker's speed.

The language besides English I know best is Italian. I'm far from
fluent, but I can read it fairly well, although I miss a word now and
then. But listening? I understand next to nothing unless they are all
short simple sentences spoken very slowly.

I need help with subtitles in
>order to follow the 100% of the movies. Without that help I miss a
>percent. Not with a direct conversation with a person, then I get almost
>all, at least after I get used to their accent.
>
>
>
>> I was pretty good at French and Spanish in school, but I never felt I
>> was really fluent even though I was able to get by when we spent 2 weeks
>> in Paris.  It was WORK!   Being the best among a mess of incompetents
>> isn't really something to brag about.
>
>:-)

On Mon, 13 Feb 2023 15:32:23 -0600, VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:

>Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> wrote:
>
>> VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:
>>
>>> The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Are you by any chance a native English speaker, or did you learn it as
>>>> a second language?
>>>
>>> Nope. Born in the USA. Parents were born here. Grandparents, too,
>>> and great grandparents.
>>
>> I remember asking you that exact same question quite a few years ago
>> in one of the Win groups. I asked because you frequently use a
>> sentence structure that I find jarring. All of the words are there,
>> but they're in an unusual order. I assumed you were simply mentally
>> translating another language to English, but I guess not.
>
>Ever have your English/Composition teacher condemn the use of sentences
>that end with a preposition, like they say to never end a sentence with
>the word "with"?

"There are some things up with which I shall not put," supposedly by
Winston Churchill, but probably not

**************

"Where's the train at?"

"Didn't you ever go school? Didn't you learn never to end a sentence
with a preposition?

"OK, where's the train at, asshole?"

*************

As far as I'm concerned, there's nothing wrong with ending a sentence
with a preposition.

Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:

> Listening to a foreign language is a lot harder than reading and
> writing. You can read and write at whatever speed you're comfortable
> with, but you have to listen at the speaker's speed.

The biggest problem with listening is knowing where words start and end.
When speaking, words just keep flowing, so they sound like one
continuous utterance until the speaker runs out of breath.

What you read:
Go to the next station, get off, and head straight out the front door.

What you hear:
Gotothenextstation getoff andheadstraightoutthedoor.

On Mon, 13 Feb 2023 20:58:19 -0600, VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:

>Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:
>
>> Listening to a foreign language is a lot harder than reading and
>> writing. You can read and write at whatever speed you're comfortable
>> with, but you have to listen at the speaker's speed.
>
>The biggest problem with listening is knowing where words start and end.
>When speaking, words just keep flowing, so they sound like one
>continuous utterance until the speaker runs out of breath.
>
>What you read:
>Go to the next station, get off, and head straight out the front door.
>
>What you hear:
>Gotothenextstation getoff andheadstraightoutthedoor.

When the language in question is German, sometimes the words are
actually as long as they appear to be.

On 2023-2-14 7:56, VanguardLH wrote:
> Lu Wei <luweitest@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> VanguardLH wrote:
>>
>>> The ability to define regex in filters. Not just some of regex, but
>>> the entire Perl regex library.
>>>
>>> The ability to exercise my filters on ALL headers, not just overview
>>> headers.
>>
>> I am using Thunderbird 52.9 on WindowsXP, so I'd like to give some
>> info I know. Regex support in filters could be added by extension
>> "Expression Search / Google Mail UI":
>> https://addons.thunderbird.net/en-US/thunderbird/addon/gmailui/
>
> A popular one is FiltaQuilla; however, from someone else's testing, it
> only works on e-mail, not newsgroups. Never tested the one you mention.
>
Yes, FiltaQuilla is not on par with "Expression Search/gmailui" in this:
it's only for message filter, not for expression search, and the main
filter option (subject or header regex) do not work for newsgroups.
However, some filter option (bcc, javascript, tag of Thread Head, tag of
Thread Message) work, but I do not use them.

>>> Changing fonts anywhere: newsgroup/message list pane, headers for
>>> both newsgroup, headers, and message panes, and in bodies of
>>> messages. I can also choose foreground and background colors. ... I
>>> still see users asking how to change fonts in various parts of its
>>> GUI.
>>
>> I think a UserChrome.css file could do this:
>> http://kb.mozillazine.org/UserChrome.css
>
> I've seen lots of users asking how to modify the GUI. They don't know
> Javascript, so they need help from someone else on the CSS syntax, plus
> the scope is not defined, so they don't know what variables, objects, or
> attributes are within scope. They usually have to get the code from
> elsewhere. Don't need any of that in Dialog.
>
Yes, that DIY expects advanced coders so I never used it. If I need to
modify the GUI, I would ask for help, or luckily, find a suitable template.

> Also, I don't remember from where, but I feel support for userchrome.css
> is planned to go away. That will piss off a lot of Tbird users, but
> Mozilla didn't care about all users of XUL/XPCOM add-ons when they
> switched Firefox to Webkit extensions. Maybe that's why you're still
> back on the v52ESR release of Tbird, too.
>
Yes, not only they ditched XUL, but also windowsxp, so I have to remain
on v52. I have switched firefox browser to Serpent 52, which is
developed from Firefox 52ESR, but for e-mail|newsgroup clients I have no
urge to change. Maybe I will try BOC mailnews or HBL icedove (both
developed on UXP platform like Serpent, derived from XUL) someday.

>>> Cross-post management. ...
>>
>> I filter xpost at Hamster gateway, but I think the same could be done
>> at TB by a regex filter rule for "Newsgroups:" header.
>
> Except the Newsgroups header is not an overview header at most Usenet
> providers. To check if your choice(s) for NNTP server(s) include
> Newsgroups as an overview header, try the following in a command shell:
>
> telnet <NNTPserverhostname> 119
> list overview.fmt
> quit
>
> When I do that at news.individual.net and news.eternal-september.org
> (AIOE seems to still be down), Newsgroups is not one of the overview
> headers. The overview headers is what your client gets when it requests
> an article. You get the other (non-overview) headers when your client
> requests the bodies of the articles. And there's the trick for many
> NNTP client: configure it to retrieve not just headers but full messages
> (headers + bodies). This is okay in text-only newsgroups, or at NNTP
> servers that only carry text-only newsgroups, but don't do this if your
> client connects to an NNTP server that also serves binary newsgroups.
> You definitely don't want to waste time and bandwidth waiting to
> download the bodies of binary posts. Instead of waiting until whenever
> you choose a message in the header list pane to then retrieve the body
> of a message, your client retrieves whole messages when it polls for new
> messages. That will ensure you get all headers.
>
> A client, if capable, can issue the XPAT command to the NNTP server.
> That asks the server to deliver specific headers from specific articles
> base on pattern matching on the contents of the headers of the matching
> articles. Rare few servers will support that command. It requests the
> server to do a lot of searching on your behalf. Most providers figure
> if you want to search on a post then you do it in what your client
> retrieved. As I recall, XPAT has vulnerabilities, and why servers also
> choose not to support XPAT.
>
> In Tbird, from what I've read in other posts, users have to go through a
> special procedure to define non-overview headers, like Newsgroups. Only
> after they define the special header can they test on it. You'd still
> be stuck with the limited filtering rules in Tbird until you install an
> add-on that gives you regex support. Regex isn't just about have far
> more robust matching on strings, but also letting you more narrowly
> focus the match to eliminate false positives.
>
I did more test to find that my previous thought to use regex filter
rule on Newsgroups header is not possible. TB supports simple match rule
on Newsgroups header, in fact any header could be filtered by selecting
"customize..." at filter rule dialogue, but regex match is only
supported by "Expression Search/gmailui"; however, for unknown reason,
the "headerex: Newsgroups" filter syntax added by the extension do not
work as expected.

>> I see posting to Usenet and sending e-mail simultaneously a feature,
>> though I haven't used it but I can imagine the situation when it is
>> useful.
>
> Luckily you've never been trapped by a troll who added a header that had
> replies get sent via e-mail. Yep, you can have replies to your post go
> to e-mail. By adding the following headers (either one), the poster is
> trying to get respondents to send their replies via e-mail instead of to
> Usenet:
>
> Followup-To: poster
> Mail-Copies-To: <emailAddrs>
>
> In addition, I can set a flag (show the header, bold it, and colorize
> it) in the message pane when specific headers are present, like when
> someone tries to yank the discussion to one of the cross-posted
> newsgroups, or to a wholly different newsgroup. The flagging warns me
> of the use of a specified header. Trolls will attempt to divert replies
> to *.test to hide the replies, or flame other newsgroups by dumping your
> reply where it doesn't belong. Some folks will cross-post, but they
> only monitor one of the newsgroups, to they use FollowUp-To to direct
> replies to their "home" newsgroup the result of which is the discussion
> gets yanked from participants in the other newsgroups. Very rude.
> Should anyone use the FollowUp-To, X-No-Archive, X-Yes-Archive, or
> Mail-Copies-To header, the toolbar of the message pane will show the
> header in bold and colorized to warn me. If someone cross-posts (there
> are commas in the Newsgroups header), the Newsgroups field in the
> toolbar gets bolded to alert me to a cross-posting. When I select a
> message, the Message pane's toolbar duplicates the Subject that I see in
> the Headers pane, so too often I just start reading the body instead of
> looking at the headers. These alerts help me from falling into someone
> else's trap, or to decide how I want to handle the message.
>
> Also, users of combo clients can make the mistake of sending e-mail to
> Usenet exposing some rather personal traits or information. Just click
> the wrong toolbar button.
>
> You might send an e-mail to Usenet where it never dies. You might send
> newsgroup message to e-mail, and wonder why your article never shows up.
> Besides the covert attempt to redirect replies to e-mail, it's pretty
> easy to tap the wrong toolbar button.
>
Thanks for the explanation, however I still think the author of the post
has the reason to set such headers. They exist for a purpose, though
could be misused or abused. As their usage are rare, the replier may be
"trapped" or misleaded; yet I think users should check the post headers
before sending, as a custom to reply e-mail -- check the correct
identity, to and cc list, missing attachments (although empty attachment
now normally reminded by client), etc.

>>> If posts are missing in a thread in Dialog (they weren't available at
>>> the server, they expired at the server, or for some reason the
>>> server didn't send them), there is a Reconstruct Thread option.
>>> Sometimes I'll see a subthread that looks orphaned or truncated
>>> because I'm missing the parent articles. I can have Dialog request
>>> the server send the missing articles *if* they're still on the
>>> server. Then, if retrieved, I can see the entire thread from
>>> starting post.
>>
>> That's awesome, but I doubt if the article is not on the server, most
>> server will just refuse the request instead of fetching it from
>> peers.
>
> No peering involved. The client asks the server for old messages, not
> to get them from anywhere else. When your client asks for new messages,
> it isn't retrieving old messages, and it's those old messages that are
> needed to reconstruct a thread.
>
> My bad for the misleading "not at the server". If the old messages are
> not at the server, you don't get them, so reconstruction doesn't always
> work. Reconstruction, if it works, is easy to rebuild a discussion
> than, say, having to use Message-IDs in the References header to search
> at Howard Knight's archive (http://al.howardknight.net/). Retention and
> cancels can affect if old messages are on the server. Clients retrieve
> new messages based on a range of high and low water marks when
> requesting new messages from the server. About the only time you get
> all messages retrieved is when you subscribe to a newsgroup, or do a
> refresh on messages, but that means retrieving ALL messages available at
> the server instead of just a few old ones.
>
I see. The similar could be done in TB by clicking the Message-IDs in
the References header all the way up, but not in a single command.

On 2023-02-14 03:58, VanguardLH wrote:
> Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:
>
>> Listening to a foreign language is a lot harder than reading and
>> writing. You can read and write at whatever speed you're comfortable
>> with, but you have to listen at the speaker's speed.
>
> The biggest problem with listening is knowing where words start and end.
> When speaking, words just keep flowing, so they sound like one
> continuous utterance until the speaker runs out of breath.
>
> What you read:
> Go to the next station, get off, and head straight out the front door.
>
> What you hear:
> Gotothenextstation getoff andheadstraightoutthedoor.

I think I have more difficulties with recordings, like movies, or "meet"
conversations. I have almost no problems in person, at least once I get
used to the person accent.

Someone said that two marks were telephone conversations, and maths. The
former I can, the later I can't. I don't know how to add two and three :-)

Another mark are dreams. I do dream in English some times.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On Mon, 13 Feb 2023 20:58:19 -0600, VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:

>Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:
>
>> Listening to a foreign language is a lot harder than reading and
>> writing. You can read and write at whatever speed you're comfortable
>> with, but you have to listen at the speaker's speed.
>
>The biggest problem with listening is knowing where words start and end.

Yes, but how much of a problem that is largely depends on what
language is being spoken. For example, to me, French is much harder in
that respect than Italian.

>When speaking, words just keep flowing, so they sound like one
>continuous utterance until the speaker runs out of breath.
>
>What you read:
>Go to the next station, get off, and head straight out the front door.
>
>What you hear:
>Gotothenextstation getoff andheadstraightoutthedoor.