On 01.08.2021 at 15:11, Carlos E. R. scribbled:

> I have a model of the Hurricane at 1:24 scale, I think it is. Very
> detailed. From Airfix, I suppose. Fragile things, they don't survive a
> zealeous hired house cleaner, even if I told them to not clean the
> cupboard top :-(
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airfix

I built model airplane kits too when I was young — between the ages of
12 and 15 — and Airfix was one of the brands of model kits I used the
most. Others that I used a lot were were Revell, Monogram and
Matchbox.

I mainly built jets — mostly military, and a few civilian — but I also
had a Saturn V rocket (from Airfix) and a WW-II-era American submarine
(from Revell).

I usually stuck to the 1:72 scale, though. But I remember that Airfix
had a couple of 1:24 scale models in their catalogue at the time, among
which a very detailed Hawker Harrier Jump Jet. ;)

I'm not sure which was the last kit I built, but it was either an F-16
kit from Revell or a "Space: 1999" Eagle Transporter from Airfix. At
that point in time I had already turned 15 and had become fully devoted
to my next big obsession, i.e. electric guitars. :)

--
With respect,
= Aragorn

On Sun, 1 Aug 2021 15:11:32 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>
> On 01/08/2021 13.52, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
>> On Sun, 1 Aug 2021 13:14:43 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>
>>> Curious.
>>>
>>> Ah, please, post the link.
>>
>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supermarine_Spitfire#Carburetion_versus_fuel_injection>
>>
>
> Thanks :-)
>
> Didn't know any of this.
>
> I have a model of the Hurricane at 1:24 scale, I think it is. Very
> detailed. From Airfix, I suppose. Fragile things, they don't survive a
> zealeous hired house cleaner, even if I told them to not clean the
> cupboard top :-(

Aww.

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airfix

Became interested in WWII (and the Cold War) over the recent years and
like to learn about lesser known details and quirks.
--
Andreas

On 01/08/2021 15.47, Aragorn wrote:
> On 01.08.2021 at 15:11, Carlos E. R. scribbled:
>
>> I have a model of the Hurricane at 1:24 scale, I think it is. Very
>> detailed. From Airfix, I suppose. Fragile things, they don't survive a
>> zealeous hired house cleaner, even if I told them to not clean the
>> cupboard top :-(
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airfix
>
> I built model airplane kits too when I was young — between the ages of
> 12 and 15 — and Airfix was one of the brands of model kits I used the
> most. Others that I used a lot were were Revell, Monogram and
> Matchbox.
>
> I mainly built jets — mostly military, and a few civilian — but I also
> had a Saturn V rocket (from Airfix)

Me too, I have that rocket :-)

And another of the lunar lander - this one I never finished, the paint
instructions were far from clear.

> and a WW-II-era American submarine
> (from Revell).
>
> I usually stuck to the 1:72 scale, though. But I remember that Airfix
> had a couple of 1:24 scale models in their catalogue at the time, among
> which a very detailed Hawker Harrier Jump Jet. ;)
>
> I'm not sure which was the last kit I built, but it was either an F-16
> kit from Revell or a "Space: 1999" Eagle Transporter from Airfix. At
> that point in time I had already turned 15 and had become fully devoted
> to my next big obsession, i.e. electric guitars. :)

:-)

I know the lunar lander was my last. It must be somewhere in a box.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

On 31/07/2021 12:29, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> On 31/07/2021 10.52, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
>> On Fri, 30 Jul 2021 21:55:16 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>
>>> The Bristol Mercury WWII aircraft engine was well known for pausing for
>>> several seconds with no power at all if you rammed the throttles open.
>>
>> First versions of Supermarine Spitfires had a similar problem stalling on
>> negative Gs, easy prey for ME 109s. The solution, adding a simple ring
>> into the fuel line, an idea by Beatrice Shilling, helped winning the
>> Battle Of Britain (and probably the war).
>>
>
> A ring? Sorry, I don't understand.
>

There's rather a good You tube video on Miss Shilling's Orifice as it
was politely known. AFAICR the problem was that negative G cause the
floats in the carb float chamber to lift off the needles and fuel gushed
in flooding the engines for several seconds. Restricting the max. rate
of fuel into the carb to a little more than full throttle required,
meant the engine only flooded for a split second and recovered much
quicker.
The ring was something like a washer that was placed in the fuel line or
the fuel lines connecting to the carb. It reduced but did not solve the
problem.
In practice pilots had been taught to roll inverted and use up stick to
get the machine into a dive - it wasn't a war losing issue, it was just
something pilots had to learn how to do - like landing a corsair in a
sideslip so you could actually see the carrier deck :-)

Googling Miss Shilling's Orifice will probably net you a much more
accurate and intersting explanatiun, as I said that is from memory only

--
"I am inclined to tell the truth and dislike people who lie consistently.
This makes me unfit for the company of people of a Left persuasion, and
all women"

On 31/07/2021 16:27, bad sector wrote:
> On 7/30/21 8:31 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>> On 31/07/2021 02.00, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>> On 2021-07-30, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 30/07/2021 19:26, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> But at least we learn enough about how an engine works that we know
>>>>> how - and why - to not do things that might make it screw up and stop.
>>>>
>>>> Or not. The Bristol Mercury WWII aircraft engine was well known for
>>>> pausing for several seconds with no power at all if you rammed the
>>>> throttles open.
>>>
>>> Even engines on some light aircraft will stumble if you open the
>>> throttle too fast.  Others will backfire if you close the throttle
>>> too fast.  Don't move the throttle too fast.
>>
>> The Austin 1300 had an oil dampener in the throttle control so that it
>> would move slowly. At least in one direction, I don't remember which.
>
> my 3000 mk-II had 3 SU carbs that I had to tune by sticking
> one end of a hose in my ear and the other near each carb
> to listen to the air pitch and adjust as req'd :-))  It had
> those tapered fuel controll pins pulled out by the manifold
> vacuum (don't remember exactly what I had to adjust though..).
>
>
didn't you have a vacuum gauge?

What you had to get right was that the mechanical linkages between 2 or
3 carbs were all locked in place so all the carbs were closed by the
same amount - because the idle speed settings on multiple SUs meant that
one idle speed - the highest would render the others irrelevant.
I seem to recall that you slackened off the intercarb couplings, with
the engine running, so the carbs were all operating independently and
then adjusted the idle speed on each carbs for a balanced hiss from each
one (or a balanced vacuum with a meter)

THEN you tightened all the couplings . Once tightened the individual
carb idles settings no longer meant anything - it was just the highest
one that set the idle speed for the whole array

The tapered needles were mechanical engine maps! The taper was ground
in so that fuel was adjusted very accurately according to the manifold
vacuum as the needles slid out of the main jets. Not allowing them to
slide out too fast was the purpose of the dampers. Because in addition
to the needles there was a second throttle attached to them so the
actual butterfly valves didn't actually open the throttles directly -
they created a vaccuum that caused the barrels and needles to rise up
and increase air and fuel flow.

It actually worked very well - BMC style engines equipped with SUs were
much more economical than zenith equipped fords; UK has never had any
oil wells of its own, and economy was important.

The strombergs worked ins a similar fashion but instead of a piston the
vacuum operated a rubber diaphragm I think, still damped

But its all a long time ago now

--
The lifetime of any political organisation is about three years before
its been subverted by the people it tried to warn you about.

Anon.

On 01/08/2021 14:04, Bud Frede wrote:
> Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com> writes:
>
>> John Dow <jmd@nelefa.org> writes:
>>
>>> On 2021-07-27, F Russell <fr@random.info> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Therefore, unless you are a TRUE user of GNU/Linux then
>>>> please the get the fuck out.
>>>
>>> You, sir, are a twat.
>>>
>>
>> Well, his name is Fucking Russell, so that fits.
>
>
> Sorry, that was rather insensitive of me. I apologize for my vulgar and
> sexist comment. I was annoyed at usenet trolls this morning and should
> have taken a deep breath before posting in anger.
>
Please don't apologise, It saved me calling him a cunt

--
A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on
its shoes.

On 8/1/21 10:12 PM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 31/07/2021 16:27, bad sector wrote:
>> On 7/30/21 8:31 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>> On 31/07/2021 02.00, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>>> On 2021-07-30, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 30/07/2021 19:26, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> But at least we learn enough about how an engine works that
>>>>>> we know
>>>>>>
>>>>>> how - and why - to not do things that might make it screw
>>>>>> up and stop.
>>>>>
>>>>> Or not. The Bristol Mercury WWII aircraft engine was well
>>>>> known for pausing for several seconds with no power at all if
>>>>> you rammed the
>>>>>
>>>>> throttles open.
>>>>
>>>> Even engines on some light aircraft will stumble if you open
>>>> the throttle too fast. Others will backfire if you close the
>>>> throttle
>>>>
>>>> too fast. Don't move the throttle too fast.
>>>
>>> The Austin 1300 had an oil dampener in the throttle control so
>>> that it would move slowly. At least in one direction, I don't
>>> remember which.
>>
>> my 3000 mk-II had 3 SU carbs that I had to tune by sticking
>>
>> one end of a hose in my ear and the other near each carb to listen
>> to the air pitch and adjust as req'd :-)) It had those tapered
>> fuel controll pins pulled out by the manifold
>>
>> vacuum (don't remember exactly what I had to adjust though..).
>>
> didn't you have a vacuum gauge?
>
> What you had to get right was that the mechanical linkages between 2
> or 3 carbs were all locked in place so all the carbs were closed by
> the same amount - because the idle speed settings on multiple SUs
> meant that one idle speed - the highest would render the others
> irrelevant. I seem to recall that you slackened off the intercarb
> couplings, with the engine running, so the carbs were all operating
> independently and then adjusted the idle speed on each carbs for a
> balanced hiss from each one (or a balanced vacuum with a meter)
>
> THEN you tightened all the couplings . Once tightened the individual
> carb idles settings no longer meant anything - it was just the
> highest one that set the idle speed for the whole array
>
> The tapered needles were mechanical engine maps! The taper was ground
> in so that fuel was adjusted very accurately according to the
> manifold vacuum as the needles slid out of the main jets. Not
> allowing them to slide out too fast was the purpose of the dampers.
> Because in addition to the needles there was a second throttle
> attached to them so the actual butterfly valves didn't actually open
> the throttles directly - they created a vaccuum that caused the
> barrels and needles to rise up and increase air and fuel flow.
>
> It actually worked very well - BMC style engines equipped with SUs
> were much more economical than zenith equipped fords; UK has never
> had any oil wells of its own, and economy was important.
>
> The strombergs worked ins a similar fashion but instead of a piston
> the vacuum operated a rubber diaphragm I think, still damped
>
> But its all a long time ago now

You said it, I don't remember half as much detail,
but listening to each with a hose was definitely the
method. Mine was a 1962, LOVED it! Also had two
vettes at the same time much later ('73-350 & '74-454)
they were just lawn-mower-class trucks, loads of fun
but no finesse. Man, that Healey was balanced just
perfect, I've heard XKE owners say such things too
but never had one of those. Then I got married,
wife, kids, Rabbits, Pintos; took me forever to crawl
back up and convince her that a bullittish Mustang
was in reality very much a family car :-))))

On 02/08/2021 04:05, bad sector wrote:
> On 8/1/21 10:12 PM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 31/07/2021 16:27, bad sector wrote:
>>> On 7/30/21 8:31 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>>> On 31/07/2021 02.00, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>>>> On 2021-07-30, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 30/07/2021 19:26, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But at least we learn enough about how an engine works that
>>>>>>>  we know
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> how - and why - to not do things that might make it screw
>>>>>>> up and stop.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Or not. The Bristol Mercury WWII aircraft engine was well known
>>>>>> for pausing for several seconds with no power at all if
>>>>>>  you rammed the
>>>>>>
>>>>>> throttles open.
>>>>>
>>>>> Even engines on some light aircraft will stumble if you open the
>>>>> throttle too fast. Others will backfire if you close the throttle
>>>>>
>>>>> too fast. Don't move the throttle too fast.
>>>>
>>>> The Austin 1300 had an oil dampener in the throttle control so
>>>> that it would move slowly. At least in one direction, I don't
>>>> remember which.
>>>
>>> my 3000 mk-II had 3 SU carbs that I had to tune by sticking
>>>
>>> one end of a hose in my ear and the other near each carb to listen
>>>  to the air pitch and adjust as req'd :-))  It had those tapered fuel
>>> controll pins pulled out by the manifold
>>>
>>> vacuum (don't remember exactly what I had to adjust though..).
>>>
>> didn't you have a vacuum gauge?
>>
>> What you had to get right was that the mechanical linkages between 2
>>  or 3 carbs were all locked in place so all the carbs were closed by
>>  the same amount - because the idle speed settings on multiple SUs
>> meant that one idle speed - the highest would render the others
>> irrelevant. I seem to recall that you slackened off the intercarb
>> couplings, with the engine running, so the carbs were all operating
>> independently and then adjusted the idle speed on each carbs for a
>> balanced hiss from each one (or a balanced vacuum with a meter)
>>
>> THEN you tightened all the couplings . Once tightened the individual
>>  carb idles settings no longer meant anything - it was just the
>> highest one that set the idle speed for the whole array
>>
>> The tapered needles were mechanical engine maps! The taper was ground
>> in so that fuel was adjusted very accurately according to the manifold
>> vacuum as the needles slid out of the main jets. Not allowing them to
>> slide out too fast was the purpose of the dampers. Because in addition
>> to the needles there was a second throttle attached to them so the
>> actual butterfly valves didn't actually open
>> the throttles directly - they created a vaccuum that caused the
>> barrels and needles to rise up and increase air and fuel flow.
>>
>> It actually worked very well - BMC style engines equipped with SUs
>> were much more economical than zenith equipped fords; UK has never had
>> any oil wells of its own, and economy was important.
>>
>> The strombergs worked ins a similar fashion but instead of a piston
>> the vacuum operated a rubber diaphragm I think, still damped
>>
>> But its all a long time ago now
>
> You said it, I don't remember half as much detail,
> but listening to each with a hose was definitely the
> method. Mine was a 1962, LOVED it! Also had two
> vettes at the same time much later ('73-350 & '74-454)
> they were just lawn-mower-class trucks, loads of fun
> but no finesse. Man, that Healey was balanced just
> perfect, I've heard XKE owners say such things too
> but never had one of those. Then I got married,
> wife, kids, Rabbits, Pintos; took me forever to crawl
> back up and convince her that a bullittish Mustang
> was in reality very much a family car  :-))))
>
running an old jaguar xf 3.0s twin v6 turbodiesel 270bhp
That really is a 140mph family car

--
In a Time of Universal Deceit, Telling the Truth Is a Revolutionary Act.

- George Orwell

On 02/08/2021 03.54, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 31/07/2021 12:29, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>> On 31/07/2021 10.52, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
>>> On Fri, 30 Jul 2021 21:55:16 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The Bristol Mercury WWII aircraft engine was well known for pausing for
>>>> several seconds with no power at all if you rammed the throttles open.
>>>
>>> First versions of Supermarine Spitfires had a similar problem
>>> stalling on
>>> negative Gs, easy prey for ME 109s. The solution, adding a simple ring
>>> into the fuel line, an idea by Beatrice Shilling, helped winning the
>>> Battle Of Britain (and probably the war).
>>>
>>
>> A ring? Sorry, I don't understand.
>>
>
> There's rather a good You tube video on Miss Shilling's Orifice as it
> was politely known. AFAICR the problem was that negative G cause the
> floats in the carb float chamber to lift off the needles and fuel gushed
> in flooding the engines for several seconds. Restricting the max. rate
> of fuel into the carb to a little more than full throttle required,
> meant the engine only flooded for a split second and recovered much
> quicker.
> The ring was something like a washer that was placed in the fuel line or
> the fuel lines connecting to the carb. It reduced but did not solve the
> problem.
> In practice pilots had been taught to roll inverted and use up stick to
> get the machine into a dive - it wasn't a war losing issue, it was just
> something pilots had to learn how to do - like landing a corsair in a
> sideslip so you could actually see the carrier deck :-)
>
> Googling  Miss Shilling's Orifice will probably net you a much more
> accurate and intersting explanatiun, as I said that is from memory only

Oh, I can understand that the float at negative G gets wacked and the
chamber floods. I always wondered how to manage a carburator in a plane.

Aviation must be full of those things. There is a jet that is used in
Spain for training purposes only, and also for acrobatics. Well, the
thing is that it is not designed to fly inverted because the oil in the
engine goes to the "roof" and the pump runs dry. Well, the pilots
devised "something" that allow them to fly inverted for some little time
(that they have to control).

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

On 8/2/21 4:54 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> xf 3.0s twin v6 turbodiesel

"The child is grown, The dream is gone" :-)

Now it's a Subaroo outback and a Totoyahaha Tundra,
everything is digital: puke, puke, puke.

On 02/08/2021 14.43, bad sector wrote:
> On 8/2/21 4:54 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> xf 3.0s twin v6 turbodiesel
>
> "The child is grown, The dream is gone" :-)
>
> Now it's a Subaroo outback and a Totoyahaha Tundra,
> everything is digital: puke, puke, puke.

Heh :-)

I went into electronics in order to create all those electronics :-)

Only that it was not me in the end.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

On 8/2/21 2:26 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> On 02/08/2021 14.43, bad sector wrote:
>> On 8/2/21 4:54 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>> xf 3.0s twin v6 turbodiesel
>>
>> "The child is grown, The dream is gone" :-)
>>
>> Now it's a Subaroo outback and a Totoyahaha Tundra,
>> everything is digital: puke, puke, puke.
>
> Heh :-)
>
> I went into electronics in order to create all those electronics :-)

Fuck you!

In the 70's one of my brothers in law had one of them
Chrysler muscle cars (actually all 3 of them did). This
one was probably a ragtop 'cuda. It was full of bikini girls
cruising at a good clip downhill on a steep 1km stretch
toward a dock at the bottom when he realized he had no
brakes. He put it in reverse and floored it, enter the mother
of all smoke shows, but he managed to stop (I think it
was an automatic). Try THAT with one of todays AI cars
that haven't got a single mechanical control :-)

> Only that it was not me in the end.
>
>
> --
> Cheers,
> Carlos E.R.
>

On Mon, 2 Aug 2021 16:37:48 -0400, bad sector wrote:
>
> In the 70's one of my brothers in law had one of them
> Chrysler muscle cars (actually all 3 of them did). This
> one was probably a ragtop 'cuda. It was full of bikini girls
> cruising at a good clip downhill on a steep 1km stretch
> toward a dock at the bottom when he realized he had no
> brakes. He put it in reverse and floored it, enter the mother
> of all smoke shows, but he managed to stop (I think it
> was an automatic). Try THAT with one of todays AI cars
> that haven't got a single mechanical control :-)

Being from Europe all of my cars had manual transmission. My Beetle needed
some pumping on the pedal to build up pressure to brake. Hydraulics were
leaking. I could instead also shift to a lower gear. The engine was
screaming but that slows the car down. And I was always looking for a
"soft target" (excluding humans and animals) next to the road to bump in
in case both other options failed.
--
Andreas

PGP fingerprint 952B0A9F12C2FD6C9F7E68DAA9C2EA89D1A370E0

On 8/2/21 6:27 PM, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
> On Mon, 2 Aug 2021 16:37:48 -0400, bad sector wrote:
>>
>> In the 70's one of my brothers in law had one of them
>> Chrysler muscle cars (actually all 3 of them did). This
>> one was probably a ragtop 'cuda. It was full of bikini girls
>> cruising at a good clip downhill on a steep 1km stretch
>> toward a dock at the bottom when he realized he had no
>> brakes. He put it in reverse and floored it, enter the mother
>> of all smoke shows, but he managed to stop (I think it
>> was an automatic). Try THAT with one of todays AI cars
>> that haven't got a single mechanical control :-)
>
> Being from Europe all of my cars had manual transmission. My Beetle needed
> some pumping on the pedal to build up pressure to brake. Hydraulics were
> leaking. I could instead also shift to a lower gear. The engine was
> screaming but that slows the car down. And I was always looking for a
> "soft target" (excluding humans and animals) next to the road to bump in
> in case both other options failed.
> --
> Andreas
>
> PGP fingerprint 952B0A9F12C2FD6C9F7E68DAA9C2EA89D1A370E0

My earlier cited Healey ran out gas two blocks from a garage.
I made it on the starter, forget what gear; first electric car ever,
take THAT, Elon :-))

Carlos E. R. wrote:
> On 02/08/2021 14.43, bad sector wrote:
>> On 8/2/21 4:54 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>> xf 3.0s twin v6 turbodiesel
>> "The child is grown, The dream is gone" :-)
>>
>> Now it's a Subaroo outback and a Totoyahaha Tundra,
>> everything is digital: puke, puke, puke.
>
> Heh :-)
>
> I went into electronics in order to create all those electronics :-)
>
> Only that it was not me in the end.

The part that provides closed loop feedback on the engine,
that was a great idea.

But the part the consumer sees, that's just awful.

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2017/05/the-state-of-the-car-computer-forget-horsepower-we-want-megahertz/

Paul

On 03/08/2021 00.27, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
> On Mon, 2 Aug 2021 16:37:48 -0400, bad sector wrote:
>>
>> In the 70's one of my brothers in law had one of them
>> Chrysler muscle cars (actually all 3 of them did). This
>> one was probably a ragtop 'cuda. It was full of bikini girls
>> cruising at a good clip downhill on a steep 1km stretch
>> toward a dock at the bottom when he realized he had no
>> brakes. He put it in reverse and floored it, enter the mother
>> of all smoke shows, but he managed to stop (I think it
>> was an automatic). Try THAT with one of todays AI cars
>> that haven't got a single mechanical control :-)
>
> Being from Europe all of my cars had manual transmission. My Beetle needed
> some pumping on the pedal to build up pressure to brake. Hydraulics were
> leaking. I could instead also shift to a lower gear. The engine was
> screaming but that slows the car down. And I was always looking for a
> "soft target" (excluding humans and animals) next to the road to bump in
> in case both other options failed.
>

Plus, here all cars have a hand brake, typically operated by cable.

A good AI though, would detect the breakage of the brakes in advance and
would not allow the car to be moved :-p

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

On 03/08/2021 00.57, Paul wrote:
> Carlos E. R. wrote:
>> On 02/08/2021 14.43, bad sector wrote:
>>> On 8/2/21 4:54 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>> xf 3.0s twin v6 turbodiesel
>>> "The child is grown, The dream is gone" :-)
>>>
>>> Now it's a Subaroo outback and a Totoyahaha Tundra,
>>> everything is digital: puke, puke, puke.
>>
>> Heh :-)
>>
>> I went into electronics in order to create all those electronics :-)
>>
>> Only that it was not me in the end.
>
> The part that provides closed loop feedback on the engine,
> that was a great idea.

There are millions of places where electronics replace and improve on
mechanical controllers. The obvious one is the electronic ignition, and
then the system that controls the advance of the ignition point
according to current engine status and what the human demands at that
moment. Then adding electronic fuel injection system, multitude of
sensors, and a computer to control all that.

Regretfully, the more complex a system is, the more prone to failure it
is. That's something that needs lots of improvement.

Not that I specifically wanted to work on car electronics, but
electronic systems in general, improving on existing systems. But life
had other plans.

>
> But the part the consumer sees, that's just awful.
>
> https://arstechnica.com/cars/2017/05/the-state-of-the-car-computer-forget-horsepower-we-want-megahertz/

That's a totally different aspect.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

On 2021-08-02, bad sector <forgetski@postit_INVALID_.gov> wrote:
> On 8/2/21 2:26 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>> On 02/08/2021 14.43, bad sector wrote:
>>> On 8/2/21 4:54 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>> xf 3.0s twin v6 turbodiesel
>>>
>>> "The child is grown, The dream is gone" :-)
>>>
>>> Now it's a Subaroo outback and a Totoyahaha Tundra,
>>> everything is digital: puke, puke, puke.
>>
>> Heh :-)
>>
>> I went into electronics in order to create all those electronics :-)
>
> Fuck you!
>
> In the 70's one of my brothers in law had one of them
> Chrysler muscle cars (actually all 3 of them did). This
> one was probably a ragtop 'cuda. It was full of bikini girls
> cruising at a good clip downhill on a steep 1km stretch
> toward a dock at the bottom when he realized he had no
> brakes. He put it in reverse and floored it, enter the mother
> of all smoke shows, but he managed to stop (I think it
> was an automatic). Try THAT with one of todays AI cars
> that haven't got a single mechanical control :-)

The last time I ran out of brakes and engine on a hill, I stopped by getting the car
sideways on a wide gravelly patch.

--
Jasen.

On 8/2/21 6:27 PM, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
> On Mon, 2 Aug 2021 16:37:48 -0400, bad sector wrote:
>>
>> In the 70's one of my brothers in law had one of them
>> Chrysler muscle cars (actually all 3 of them did). This
>> one was probably a ragtop 'cuda. It was full of bikini girls
>> cruising at a good clip downhill on a steep 1km stretch
>> toward a dock at the bottom when he realized he had no
>> brakes. He put it in reverse and floored it, enter the mother
>> of all smoke shows, but he managed to stop (I think it
>> was an automatic). Try THAT with one of todays AI cars
>> that haven't got a single mechanical control :-)
>
> Being from Europe all of my cars had manual transmission. My Beetle needed
> some pumping on the pedal to build up pressure to brake. Hydraulics were
> leaking. I could instead also shift to a lower gear. The engine was
> screaming but that slows the car down. And I was always looking for a
> "soft target" (excluding humans and animals) next to the road to bump in
> in case both other options failed.
> --
> Andreas
>
> PGP fingerprint 952B0A9F12C2FD6C9F7E68DAA9C2EA89D1A370E0

My earlier cited Healey ran out gas two blocks from a garage.
I made it on the starter, forget what gear; first electric car ever,
take THAT, Elon :-))

On 02.08.2021 at 18:37, bad sector scribbled:

> On 8/2/21 6:27 PM, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
> > On Mon, 2 Aug 2021 16:37:48 -0400, bad sector wrote:
> >>
> >> In the 70's one of my brothers in law had one of them
> >> Chrysler muscle cars (actually all 3 of them did). This
> >> one was probably a ragtop 'cuda. It was full of bikini girls
> >> cruising at a good clip downhill on a steep 1km stretch
> >> toward a dock at the bottom when he realized he had no
> >> brakes. He put it in reverse and floored it, enter the mother
> >> of all smoke shows, but he managed to stop (I think it
> >> was an automatic). Try THAT with one of todays AI cars
> >> that haven't got a single mechanical control :-)
> >
> > Being from Europe all of my cars had manual transmission. My Beetle
> > needed some pumping on the pedal to build up pressure to brake.
> > Hydraulics were leaking. I could instead also shift to a lower
> > gear. The engine was screaming but that slows the car down. And I
> > was always looking for a "soft target" (excluding humans and
> > animals) next to the road to bump in in case both other options
> > failed. --
> > Andreas
> >
> > PGP fingerprint 952B0A9F12C2FD6C9F7E68DAA9C2EA89D1A370E0
>
> My earlier cited Healey ran out gas two blocks from a garage.
> I made it on the starter, forget what gear; first electric car ever,
> take THAT, Elon :-))

Actually, the first ever electric car was built somewhere in the 1920s.
;)

--
With respect,
= Aragorn =

On 8/3/21 4:26 AM, Jasen Betts wrote:
> On 2021-08-02, bad sector <forgetski@postit_INVALID_.gov> wrote:
>> On 8/2/21 2:26 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>> On 02/08/2021 14.43, bad sector wrote:
>>>> On 8/2/21 4:54 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>> xf 3.0s twin v6 turbodiesel
>>>>
>>>> "The child is grown, The dream is gone" :-)
>>>>
>>>> Now it's a Subaroo outback and a Totoyahaha Tundra,
>>>> everything is digital: puke, puke, puke.
>>>
>>> Heh :-)
>>>
>>> I went into electronics in order to create all those electronics :-)
>>
>> Fuck you!
>>
>> In the 70's one of my brothers in law had one of them
>> Chrysler muscle cars (actually all 3 of them did). This
>> one was probably a ragtop 'cuda. It was full of bikini girls
>> cruising at a good clip downhill on a steep 1km stretch
>> toward a dock at the bottom when he realized he had no
>> brakes. He put it in reverse and floored it, enter the mother
>> of all smoke shows, but he managed to stop (I think it
>> was an automatic). Try THAT with one of todays AI cars
>> that haven't got a single mechanical control :-)
>
> The last time I ran out of brakes and engine on a hill, I stopped by getting the car
> sideways on a wide gravelly patch.

The human brain is unbelievably capable; admittedly that's
a conditional state. Still, thanks to electronics and digital
services today's cars are so loaded with suicidal safety-traps
that I wonder if we evolved from monkeys or they from us!

On 03.08.2021 at 06:19, bad sector scribbled:

> The human brain is unbelievably capable; admittedly that's
> a conditional state. Still, thanks to electronics and digital
> services today's cars are so loaded with suicidal safety-traps
> that I wonder if we evolved from monkeys or they from us!

I am fairly convinced that humans evolved from lemmings. :p

--
With respect,
= Aragorn =

On Mon, 2 Aug 2021 18:37:18 -0400, bad sector wrote:
>
> My earlier cited Healey ran out gas two blocks from a garage.
> I made it on the starter, forget what gear; first electric car ever,
> take THAT, Elon :-))

Yes, the starter. I forgot about this.

Similar, when my battery died I pushed the car on the road which
conveniently went downhill just behind the house. Putting on 2nd gear and
releasing the clutch would start the engine. AFAIK this is not working
with automatic transmission.
--
Andreas

On Tue, 3 Aug 2021 00:57:28 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>
> On 03/08/2021 00.27, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
>>
>> Being from Europe all of my cars had manual transmission. My Beetle needed
>> some pumping on the pedal to build up pressure to brake. Hydraulics were
>> leaking. I could instead also shift to a lower gear. The engine was
>> screaming but that slows the car down. And I was always looking for a
>> "soft target" (excluding humans and animals) next to the road to bump in
>> in case both other options failed.
>>
>
> Plus, here all cars have a hand brake, typically operated by cable.

That too. Mine was also worn out already so not much of a help in case of
an emergency. Wouldn't even hold the car in place at some locations. I
put in a gear to achieve this.
--
Andreas

On 03/08/2021 10.26, Jasen Betts wrote:
> On 2021-08-02, bad sector <forgetski@postit_INVALID_.gov> wrote:
>> On 8/2/21 2:26 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>> On 02/08/2021 14.43, bad sector wrote:
>>>> On 8/2/21 4:54 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

....

> The last time I ran out of brakes and engine on a hill, I stopped by getting the car
> sideways on a wide gravelly patch.

Last time? So it has happened to you more than once? Wow.

It has never happened to me, nor to anyone I know. How do you do
maintenance? Here cars are subject to mandatory periodical inspections,
and of course the brakes are inspected with some care.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.