[snip]

>> I all your driving is local (as mine is), there are no range problems.
>> I'd like a Tesla.
>
> I occasionally have to go 300 miles.Sorry, no EV until they can recharge as
> quickly and easily as my Toyota can refuel.

Sometimes I visit a friend 350 miles away ("in the middle of nowhere",
west Texas). Someday, there'll be as many chargers as there are gas
stations now, but not yet.

[snip]

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"Let me use their own terminology against them. They aborted a child in
the 200th trimester." [Dennis Miller]

On Tue, 1 Feb 2022 11:26:35 -0600, Mark Lloyd <not.email@all.invalid>
wrote:

>
>[snip]
>
>>> I all your driving is local (as mine is), there are no range problems.
>>> I'd like a Tesla.
>>
>> I occasionally have to go 300 miles.Sorry, no EV until they can recharge as
>> quickly and easily as my Toyota can refuel.
>
>Sometimes I visit a friend 350 miles away ("in the middle of nowhere",
>west Texas). Someday, there'll be as many chargers as there are gas
>stations now, but not yet.

Even if there were, stopping to charge your battery would take a long
time and be a royal PITA.

Maybe someday that will be different, but not yet.

On Mon, 31 Jan 2022 21:14:55 -0000, J. P. Gilliver (John) <G6JPG@255soft..uk> wrote:

> On Mon, 31 Jan 2022 at 20:40:41, Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote
> (my responses usually follow points raised):
>> On Mon, 31 Jan 2022 04:35:11 -0000, Bob Campbell <none@none.none> wrote:
>>
>>> Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Why have I not even been offered Windows 11 on 5 of my 7 PCs? I went
>>>> into windows update on all of them and checked for updates.
>>>
>>> Maybe you have just been lucky. It has been “offered” on mine, but they
>>> are all too old, have no TPM and I don’t want 11 anyways.
>>
>> I see no point in sticking to older versions of things.
>
> Conversely, I see no point in getting the latest just because it might
> work - unless I see some obvious advantage to it (and that being
> something I actually want).

So, I've put it on my latest computer, just had to enable TPM in the BIOS.
One word. WTF?! ROUND CORNERS? On the start menu, on application windows! Get that Apple Mac shit off my screen!
So I got rid of that with a coupe of utilities, mainly "startallback", which is free for 30 days, I wasn't told it wasn't completely free! Oh well, there's always piratebay.
But the other computers, two have TPM1.2, the others don't have any, including my 2nd latest one, it just says "plug in an adapter" - not spending money on that.
Found several registry hacks that are meant to make it install, none of them work.
Going to try "Rufus" as recommended on Tom's Hardware: https://www.tomshardware.com/how-to/bypass-windows-11-tpm-requirement
I thougt I was going to hav to find a DVD player in acc cupboard somewhere, I don't have any machines with one, but this will do it with a USB stick, and from within Windows 10 -- two machines won't dispaly to a omnitor until the

On Mon, 31 Jan 2022 21:14:55 -0000, J. P. Gilliver (John) <G6JPG@255soft..uk> wrote:

> On Mon, 31 Jan 2022 at 20:40:41, Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote
> (my responses usually follow points raised):
>> On Mon, 31 Jan 2022 04:35:11 -0000, Bob Campbell <none@none.none> wrote:
>>
>>> Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Why have I not even been offered Windows 11 on 5 of my 7 PCs? I went
>>>> into windows update on all of them and checked for updates.
>>>
>>> Maybe you have just been lucky. It has been “offered” on mine, but they
>>> are all too old, have no TPM and I don’t want 11 anyways.
>>
>> I see no point in sticking to older versions of things.
>
> Conversely, I see no point in getting the latest just because it might
> work - unless I see some obvious advantage to it (and that being
> something I actually want).

Oops, pressed wrong key and it sent, after opening all manner of things I didn't want. I hate shortcut keys. More text added.

So, I've put it on my latest computer, just had to enable TPM in the BIOS.
One word. WTF?! ROUND CORNERS? On the start menu, on application windows! Get that Apple Mac shit off my screen!
So I got rid of that with a couple of utilities, mainly "startallback", which is free for 30 days, I wasn't told it wasn't completely free! Oh well, there's always piratebay.
But the other computers, two have TPM1.2, the others don't have any, including my 2nd latest one, it just says "plug in an adapter" - not spending money on that.
Found several registry hacks that are meant to make it install, none of them work.
Going to try "Rufus" as recommended on Tom's Hardware: https://www.tomshardware.com/how-to/bypass-windows-11-tpm-requirement
I thought I was going to have to find a DVD player in a cupboard somewhere, I don't have any machines with one, but this will do it with a USB stick, and from within Windows 10 - two machines won't display to a monitor until the OS has loaded. Ordering USB stick, mine are only 8GB, it needs 16GB.

On Tue, 01 Feb 2022 02:24:50 -0000, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:

> On 1/31/2022 8:01 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> On Tue, 01 Feb 2022 00:45:58 -0000, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On 1/31/2022 4:56 PM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 31 Jan 2022 at 21:30:43, Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote (my responses usually follow points raised):
>>>>> On Mon, 31 Jan 2022 21:18:52 -0000, J. P. Gilliver (John) <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, 31 Jan 2022 at 19:50:55, Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote
>>>>>> (my responses usually follow points raised):
>>>> []
>>>>>>> Christ, my computers aren't that old. And I would never even put
>>>>>>> Windows 7 on 4GB machine. 4GB machines go in the bin. Using the
>>>>>>> minimum requirement means you've got the disk swapping non-stop,
>>>>>>> slowing the computer down by a factor of a billion, driving you crazy,
>>>>>>> and wearing out the drive.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've been running 7-32 on this laptop with 3G for some years, without
>>>>>> problems; it's only started hitting the limit in the last year or two,
>>>>>> almost entirely due to huge/lazy/nosy scripts on webpages (running
>>>>>> something that deactivates other than the current tab after a definable
>>>>>> time mostly solves that).
>>>>>
>>>>> You'd have to use the PC very little to get away with that little memory. I installed windows 7 on a machine with 4GB and before I'd opened any programs it was swapping like crazy.
>>>>
>>>> It's my main computer; OK, I rarely process video, but I have two browsers open, each with some tens of tabs, a mail/news client, and I not infrequently process audio, and edit a 100-page document with pictures (not at the same time) - so, basically, horses for courses.
>>>>
>>>> I don't know if 7-32 is slightly less resource-hungry than 7-64.
>>>
>>> The benefit of x86 OS, is it functions as a "memory quota" for Firefox
>>> processes. A single Firefox process cannot go past around 1.8GB of RAM.
>>>
>>> Maybe with a little luck, the browser won't "go on a binge".
>>>
>>> I had another one of those "run out of RAM" events here. When
>>> I came back to the PC, there was a dialog saying "low on RAM".
>>> And I had guessed that something I was doing had exited. I at
>>> first assumed it was GIMP the image editor. Because I'd left
>>> a job running where it was converting a 130 page PDF into
>>> "bitmap files".
>>>
>>> But later, when I started the browser (without feeding it a URL),
>>> and a previous page I was viewing re-appeared, that's when I knew
>>> it was the browser that ran out of RAM... again. The browser ran out
>>> of RAM, and it got killed. That's what running an x64 OS does for you.
>>> Lets the ponies out of the barn.
>>
>> I don't get those annoying messages. You have to accept modern programs need more than 2 GB. I was running a 10 GB (on 8 cores) simulation the other day.
>
> The largest job I've run here, had an 80GB footprint, and I had
> assigned a 128GB pagefile. It used around 30GB of the pagefile.
>
> That's Microsoft ICE, panorama software that stitches image
> files together. The run I was doing, had around 70 images in it,
> in a matrix.
>
> Both my machines here, have 64GB of RAM (one uses DDR3, the other
> uses DDR4), but I use part of that for RAMDrives. The benchmark I
> posted earlier, was done on a RAMDrive. If I'd bothered to run it
> on Linux, the Linux TMPFS goes faster than the Windows ones. But there
> aren't nice looking utilities for displaying results.
>
> The RAM on the first machine cost $800, the RAM on the second machine
> only $300. If I was to use DDR5, I don't think I'd be getting good deals
> like that.

So did you get the out of RAM problems above on the big machines or the 32 bit ones?

On Tue, 01 Feb 2022 12:33:26 -0000, Wolffan <akwolffan@zoho.com> wrote:

> On 2022 Jan 31, Commander Kinsey wrote
> (in article <op.1gvulhdemvhs6z@ryzen.lan>):
>
>> On Mon, 31 Jan 2022 21:52:26 -0000, Wolffan<akwolffan@zoho.com> wrote:
>>
>> > On 2022 Jan 31, Commander Kinsey wrote
>> > (in article <op.1gvn32zkmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>):
>> >
>> > > On Mon, 31 Jan 2022 02:35:41 -0000, Wolffan<akwolffan@zoho.com> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > On 2022 Jan 30, Commander Kinsey wrote
>> > > > (in article <op.1gt7q7ovmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>):
>> > > >
>> > > > > On Mon, 31 Jan 2022 01:49:00 -0000, Wolffan<akwolffan@zoho.com> wrote:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > > On 2022 Jan 30, Commander Kinsey wrote
>> > > > > > (in article <op.1gt5zbmtmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>):
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > > So, I only found this out from a pirate website, Microsoft don't bother
>> > > > > > > telling you.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Your computer will not get a Windows 11 upgrade unless you have enabled
>> > > > > > > TPM
>> > > > > > > (trusted platform module) in your computer's BIOS. Most computers have
>> > > > > > > this
>> > > > > > > switched off.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > you’re very late to the party.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > 1. MS _does_ tell people. The requirement for a TPM was clear from the
>> > > > > > first
>> > > > > > announcements. MS went so far as to set up a page on their site.
>> > > > > > https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/whats-new/windows-11-requiremen
>> > > > > > ts
>> > > > > > and this page was the very first hit in a search for ‘hardware
>> > > > > > requirements
>> > > > > > win 11”. Note the date on the page: 30 Nov 2021. Oh.. Wait.
>> > > > > > https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/windows-11-system-requiremen
>> > > > > > ts
>> > > > > > is
>> > > > > > the 3rd hit in that search. That page dates from August... The second
>> > > > > > hit
>> > > > > > also cites the requirement for a TPM, but is undated. All three of the
>> > > > > > first
>> > > > > > 3 hits are from MS. Did you actually do a search?
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Why would I do that?
>> > > >
>> > > > so that you could find out information about the OS prior to doing an
>> > > > update.
>> > >
>> > > Uh, I just press "install" when one appears. I don't research them.
>> >
>> > that’s a bad idea. In the past MS OS updates have broken hardware,
>> > including but not limited to printers, scanners, assorted USB devices
>> > including cell data network cards, 802.11 wireless cards, and Ethernet cards
>> > (you may be detecting a theme...) and video cards. And, in one memorable
>> > instance, sound cards. Just installing runs the risk of hardware not
>> > working.
>> > MS OS updates have also broken software, including software from Adobe,
>> > Quark, and even MS themselves. This especially applies to installers;
>> > notoriously MS Office 2003 worked on Win 8 and up, but its installer had
>> > problems.
>>
>> I've owned about 20 machines, made about 100 machines, and been responsible
>> for repair/upgrade/installation of about 5000 machines. Not once has any of
>> the above happened. Perhaps it's something stupid you're doing?
>
> nope. I had, for example, a HP inkjet printer which worked with Win XP and
> Mac Tiger. When Vista and Leopard arrived, it didn’t work. I contacted HP.
> They said that that printer wasn’t supported on XP and Leopard, that both
> MS and Apple had changed their printing setups (lie; MS had, Apple hadn’t)
> and recommended buying a new printer. I did. A Brother laser. Which still
> works. And works with XP, as well.
>
> Also, I had an Epson scanner which shipped with OCR software. The OCR
> software broke on Win 7; Epson said that I needed to contact the people they
> got the software from; they had a non-OEM version, which would work... but
> they wanted money. I paid for OCR software from a different source. Still
> works.
>
> The sound card broke with Win XP SP3. Apparantly the drivers had a problem.
> it took the vendors six months to kick compatible drivers out the door..

A sound what? It's built into the motherboard for the last few decades.

>> BTW, hardware doesn't break with software.
>
> It does if the drivers don’t work.

Don't use ancient hardware, and never ever buy HP, you're lucky if that works on the intended OS!

Anyway printers are a consumable item, they fall apart mechanically in a year.

The only thing that stopped working on Windows 11 here is a replacement clock. But since that was to fix the broken Windows 10 one, and it now works, I haven't looked into it.

And you said it BROKE hardware. You mean it stops working on that OS. Broken would mean destroyed.

>> > > > > I was waiting for it to appear in Windows Update. I have
>> > > > > 7 PCs. I've only seen it mentioned on the 2 oldest ones, which said "not
>> > > > > compatible" - not sure if that's the TPM or because they're old.
>> > > >
>> > > > probably part of the other hardware requirements, which you’d know about
>> > > > if
>> > > > you looked. Odds are that they have CPUs older than 8th gen. Machines with
>> > > > CPUs older than 8th gen won’t install Win 11... unless you pull a trick.
>> > > > All of my WinBoxes have CPUs which are too old. I could force the install,
>> > > > but I won’t be installing an OS onto unsupported hardware.
>> > >
>> > > No idea what "8th gen" refers to. I have a Ryzen 9 3900XT, an i5 8600K,
>> > > and 5
>> > > very old things.
>> >
>> > 8th gen is the year that CPU was introduced. The i5 8600K is 8th gen, you
>> > can
>> > tell because its name starts with 8. A 8600K will probably be able to run
>> > Win
>> > 11, if the other hardware requirements (TPM 2, enough RAM, enough disk/SSD,
>> > good enough video) are met. AMD doesn’t make things quite as easy to tell;
>> > I think that a Ryzen 3900XT is 3rd gen, but Win 11 wants 4th gen so that one
>> > may not work.
>>
>> I bought it one year ago brand new FFS. So M$ made an OS that needs an AMD
>> newer than 1 year old?!
>>
>> Oh wait, you're entirely wrong.
>> https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/minimum/supported/win
>> dows-11-supported-amd-processors
>
> Cool. So you can use the Ryzen. You did notice the phrase ‘I think’ and
> the phrase ‘may not work’, didn’t you?

You clearly said mine is 3rd gen and windows wants 4th gen. And people tend to say "I think that won't work" when they mean "that won't work". Like if someone is trying to tow a caravan with a Renault 4.

>> > > > > > 2. It’s not the TPM that’s the problem; my main WinBox has a TPM,
>> > > > > > but
>> > > > > > won’t run Win 11 because it has TPM 1.2 and Win 11 requires TPM 2.0 or
>> > > > > > later. (Yes, I know, there’s a way around that requirement. I don’t
>> > > > > > feel
>> > > > > > like forcing installation of an OS, of all things, onto unsupported
>> > > > > > hardware.)
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Does the way around involve buying a TPM chip?
>> > > >
>> > > > that’s one way.
>> > >
>> > > Not spending money just to get 11.
>> >
>> > me either.
>>
>> Neither.
>>
>> > > > There’s also a way to play with the BIOS. And a way to
>> > > > edit the installer script so that it doesn’t look for TPM 2.0. And
>> > > > probably
>> > > > other methods. There are a _lot_ of idiots who absolutely, positively,
>> > > > MUST
>> > > > run Win 11 and will go to considerable lengths to get past any roadblocks
>> > > > MS
>> > > > puts in the way. Me, I say that my WinBoxes will stay with 10, or earlier,
>> > > > until they stop working. Unless I just reformat them and slap Ubuntu on
>> > > > them.
>> > >
>> > > I would like 11 as long as it doesn't fuck something up. If it's just a
>> > > matter of stopping it checking, and the OS will run ok with no TPM, then
>> > > I'll
>> > > do that.
>> >
>> > it’ll install. it’s not supported, so it might not get updates, and it
>> > might stop working for any reason or no reason at all, with or without
>> > warning. And if you complain to MS, they’ll point out that you installed
>> > on
>> > unsupported hardware.
>> >
>> > I’m not going to install an OS onto unsupported hardware.
>>
>> No updates wouldn't bother me. Stopping working would. But if all I've
>> bypassed is security, that shouldn't stop it working surely?
>
> don’t know. not going to find out the hard way.

On Tue, 01 Feb 2022 12:40:23 -0000, Wolffan <akwolffan@zoho.com> wrote:

> On 2022 Jan 31, Commander Kinsey wrote
> (in article <op.1gvx4ghamvhs6z@ryzen.lan>):
>
>> On Mon, 31 Jan 2022 23:42:23 -0000, Ken Blake<Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:
>>
>> > On Mon, 31 Jan 2022 16:57:18 -0500, Wolffan<akwolffan@zoho.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > > On 2022 Jan 31, Commander Kinsey wrote
>> > > (in article <op.1gvpzz2kmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>):
>> > >
>> > > > On Mon, 31 Jan 2022 21:14:55 -0000, J. P. Gilliver
>> > > > (John)<G6JPG@255soft.uk>
>> > > > wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > > On Mon, 31 Jan 2022 at 20:40:41, Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam..com> wrote
>> > > > > (my responses usually follow points raised):
>> > > > > > On Mon, 31 Jan 2022 04:35:11 -0000, Bob Campbell <none@none..none>
>> > > > > > wrote:
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > Why have I not even been offered Windows 11 on 5 of my 7 PCs? I went
>> > > > > > > > into windows update on all of them and checked for updates.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Maybe you have just been lucky. It has been “offered” on mine, but
>> > > > > > > they
>> > > > > > > are all too old, have no TPM and I don’t want 11 anyways.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > I see no point in sticking to older versions of things.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Conversely, I see no point in getting the latest just because it might
>> > > > > work - unless I see some obvious advantage to it (and that being
>> > > > > something I actually want).
>> > > >
>> > > > Why waste time seeing if you want the new things? Just have them all
>> > > > there.
>> > > > It's free. If I offered to replace your car with a newer version of it,
>> > > > would
>> > > > you say no?
>> > >
>> > > That rather depends on which car you were offering. I’d pass on, for
>> > > example, a Caddie with a V8; too expensive upkeep, with gas usage and
>> > > insurance and whatnot.
>> >
>> > For me, "whatnot" includes being a contender for the world's ugliest
>> > car.
>>
>> https://s1.cdn.autoevolution.com/images/news/gallery/this-srx-is-rivaling-for-
>> the-ugliest-cadillac-in-us-photo-gallery_5.jpg
>
> not as ugly as an Aztek. Whoever designed the Aztek should be sacrificed to
> Huitzilopochtli.

Yuck, that's almost as ugly as a BMW.

On Tue, 01 Feb 2022 12:33:26 -0000, Wolffan <akwolffan@zoho.com> wrote:

> On 2022 Jan 31, Commander Kinsey wrote
> (in article <op.1gvulhdemvhs6z@ryzen.lan>):
>
>> On Mon, 31 Jan 2022 21:52:26 -0000, Wolffan<akwolffan@zoho.com> wrote:
>>
>> > On 2022 Jan 31, Commander Kinsey wrote
>> > (in article <op.1gvn32zkmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>):
>> >
>> > > On Mon, 31 Jan 2022 02:35:41 -0000, Wolffan<akwolffan@zoho.com> wrote:
>> > > > There’s also a way to play with the BIOS. And a way to
>> > > > edit the installer script so that it doesn’t look for TPM 2.0. And
>> > > > probably
>> > > > other methods. There are a _lot_ of idiots who absolutely, positively,
>> > > > MUST
>> > > > run Win 11 and will go to considerable lengths to get past any roadblocks
>> > > > MS
>> > > > puts in the way. Me, I say that my WinBoxes will stay with 10, or earlier,
>> > > > until they stop working. Unless I just reformat them and slap Ubuntu on
>> > > > them.
>> > >
>> > > I would like 11 as long as it doesn't fuck something up. If it's just a
>> > > matter of stopping it checking, and the OS will run ok with no TPM, then
>> > > I'll
>> > > do that.
>> >
>> > it’ll install. it’s not supported, so it might not get updates, and it
>> > might stop working for any reason or no reason at all, with or without
>> > warning. And if you complain to MS, they’ll point out that you installed
>> > on
>> > unsupported hardware.
>> >
>> > I’m not going to install an OS onto unsupported hardware.
>>
>> No updates wouldn't bother me. Stopping working would. But if all I've
>> bypassed is security, that shouldn't stop it working surely?
>
> don’t know. not going to find out the hard way.

It makes my Fallout 4 game faster! They must have improved graphics somehow.

On 2/1/2022 4:10 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:

>
> So did you get the out of RAM problems above on the big machines or the 32 bit ones?

The out-of-RAM is on the big machine, because the RAMDrive
uses a lot of it.

If I switched off the RAMDrive, it would still run out of RAM,
but it would take longer.

And it's not a leak. It's some activity some advertising code carries
out in Javascript, and the memory is not being properly returned
via garbage collection inside the browser. This leads to unbounded
behavior.

And that code tries to do that, when the browser is idle and the user
walks away from the machine. It won't do that, if you're moving the
mouse a little bit.

And it's not a Service Worker inside the browser, because a browser
which has Service Worker subsystem disabled, still ran out of RAM.
Both Seamonkey and Firefox can run out of RAM.

If you use About:Memory, that subsystem doesn't always report RAM
usage properly. For example, the browser is using 3GB of RAM, and
About:Memory says the content process is using 500KB or so.

The humorous part, is the browser companies keep claiming they're
writing code to detect the problem and "park" the tab to prevent
it from happening. There's no evidence they have a clue what to
do about it.

Paul

On 2/1/2022 3:12 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> On Mon, 31 Jan 2022 21:14:55 -0000, J. P. Gilliver (John) <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 31 Jan 2022 at 20:40:41, Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote
>> (my responses usually follow points raised):
>>> On Mon, 31 Jan 2022 04:35:11 -0000, Bob Campbell <none@none.none> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Why have I not even been offered Windows 11 on 5 of my 7 PCs?  I went
>>>>> into windows update on all of them and checked for updates.
>>>>
>>>> Maybe you have just been lucky.   It has been “offered” on mine, but they
>>>> are all too old, have no TPM and I don’t want 11 anyways.
>>>
>>> I see no point in sticking to older versions of things.
>>
>> Conversely, I see no point in getting the latest just because it might
>> work - unless I see some obvious advantage to it (and that being
>> something I actually want).
>
> Oops, pressed wrong key and it sent, after opening all manner of things I didn't want.  I hate shortcut keys.  More text added.
>
> So, I've put it on my latest computer, just had to enable TPM in the BIOS.
> One word.  WTF?!  ROUND CORNERS?  On the start menu, on application windows!  Get that Apple Mac shit off my screen!
> So I got rid of that with a couple of utilities, mainly "startallback", which is free for 30 days, I wasn't told it wasn't completely free!  Oh well, there's always piratebay.
> But the other computers, two have TPM1.2, the others don't have any, including my 2nd latest one, it just says "plug in an adapter" - not spending money on that.
> Found several registry hacks that are meant to make it install, none of them work.
> Going to try "Rufus" as recommended on Tom's Hardware: https://www.tomshardware.com/how-to/bypass-windows-11-tpm-requirement
> I thought I was going to have to find a DVD player in a cupboard somewhere, I don't have any machines with one, but this will do it with a USB stick, and from within Windows 10 - two machines won't display to a monitor until the OS has loaded.  Ordering USB stick, mine are only 8GB, it needs 16GB.

When you prepare Rufus USB sticks, the stick only supports Legacy Boot,
or it supports UEFI Boot, but it does not support both.

If you want to do a Clean Install, and prepare a disk drive for UEFI/GPT,
then you want to boot the Rufus stick in UEFI mode. On a clean install,
it will only install according to the mode it is booted in. And Rufus only
supports one mode at the time, which means you have to prepare the
stick correctly for the Clean Install to deliver the goods.

If you're doing a Repair Install on a running system, then mounting the
ISO is enough for that. Or alternately, you can try preparing a folder
with all the goods in it. The goods only have to be available for the first
phase of install, which is why mounting an ISO is good enough for a
Repair install.

If an install image is 5 GB, it should fit on an 8 GB key.
That's if you want to boot from a USB key and do a Clean Install.

Paul

On Tue, 01 Feb 2022 23:40:53 -0000, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:

> On 2/1/2022 4:10 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>
>> So did you get the out of RAM problems above on the big machines or the 32 bit ones?
>
> The out-of-RAM is on the big machine, because the RAMDrive
> uses a lot of it.
>
> If I switched off the RAMDrive, it would still run out of RAM,
> but it would take longer.

I've never found a use for RAMdrives. If you're using the disk a lot, it'll get cached anyway.

> And it's not a leak. It's some activity some advertising code carries
> out in Javascript, and the memory is not being properly returned
> via garbage collection inside the browser. This leads to unbounded
> behavior.
>
> And that code tries to do that, when the browser is idle and the user
> walks away from the machine. It won't do that, if you're moving the
> mouse a little bit.
>
> And it's not a Service Worker inside the browser, because a browser
> which has Service Worker subsystem disabled, still ran out of RAM.
> Both Seamonkey and Firefox can run out of RAM.
>
> If you use About:Memory, that subsystem doesn't always report RAM
> usage properly. For example, the browser is using 3GB of RAM, and
> About:Memory says the content process is using 500KB or so.
>
> The humorous part, is the browser companies keep claiming they're
> writing code to detect the problem and "park" the tab to prevent
> it from happening. There's no evidence they have a clue what to
> do about it.

I'll stick to Opera, I don't get the problem. And maybe you should consider some adblockers? I never see an ad anywhere, including in Youtube. So I assume my computer isn't filling RAM with what yours did.

On Tue, 01 Feb 2022 23:47:13 -0000, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:

> On 2/1/2022 3:12 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> On Mon, 31 Jan 2022 21:14:55 -0000, J. P. Gilliver (John) <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 31 Jan 2022 at 20:40:41, Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote
>>> (my responses usually follow points raised):
>>>> On Mon, 31 Jan 2022 04:35:11 -0000, Bob Campbell <none@none.none> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Why have I not even been offered Windows 11 on 5 of my 7 PCs? I went
>>>>>> into windows update on all of them and checked for updates.
>>>>>
>>>>> Maybe you have just been lucky. It has been “offered” on mine, but they
>>>>> are all too old, have no TPM and I don’t want 11 anyways.
>>>>
>>>> I see no point in sticking to older versions of things.
>>>
>>> Conversely, I see no point in getting the latest just because it might
>>> work - unless I see some obvious advantage to it (and that being
>>> something I actually want).
>>
>> Oops, pressed wrong key and it sent, after opening all manner of things I didn't want. I hate shortcut keys. More text added.
>>
>> So, I've put it on my latest computer, just had to enable TPM in the BIOS.
>> One word. WTF?! ROUND CORNERS? On the start menu, on application windows! Get that Apple Mac shit off my screen!
>> So I got rid of that with a couple of utilities, mainly "startallback", which is free for 30 days, I wasn't told it wasn't completely free! Oh well, there's always piratebay.
>> But the other computers, two have TPM1.2, the others don't have any, including my 2nd latest one, it just says "plug in an adapter" - not spending money on that.
>> Found several registry hacks that are meant to make it install, none of them work.
>> Going to try "Rufus" as recommended on Tom's Hardware: https://www.tomshardware.com/how-to/bypass-windows-11-tpm-requirement
>> I thought I was going to have to find a DVD player in a cupboard somewhere, I don't have any machines with one, but this will do it with a USB stick, and from within Windows 10 - two machines won't display to a monitor until the OS has loaded. Ordering USB stick, mine are only 8GB, it needs 16GB.
>
> When you prepare Rufus USB sticks, the stick only supports Legacy Boot,
> or it supports UEFI Boot, but it does not support both.
>
> If you want to do a Clean Install, and prepare a disk drive for UEFI/GPT,
> then you want to boot the Rufus stick in UEFI mode. On a clean install,
> it will only install according to the mode it is booted in. And Rufus only
> supports one mode at the time, which means you have to prepare the
> stick correctly for the Clean Install to deliver the goods.
>
> If you're doing a Repair Install on a running system, then mounting the
> ISO is enough for that. Or alternately, you can try preparing a folder
> with all the goods in it. The goods only have to be available for the first
> phase of install, which is why mounting an ISO is good enough for a
> Repair install.
>
> If an install image is 5 GB, it should fit on an 8 GB key.
> That's if you want to boot from a USB key and do a Clean Install.

The big one has been ordered anyway, it'll be handy for other things. I bought a half TB.

I want to do in-place installs, since two of the older machines can't display to a monitor (no idea why) and one of them won't even detect a keyboard. They're fine within Windows (locally or using remote access), but not before it's loaded.

On 1/30/2022 5:19 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:

> So, I only found this out from a pirate website, Microsoft don't > bother telling you. Your computer will not get a Windows 11 upgrade
> unless you have enabled TPM (trusted platform module) in your computer's
> BIOS.  Most computers have this switched off.

It's much worse than that, actually. Windows 11 has these two huge bugs:

1. Windows 11 only runs on computers with TPM hardware and firmware,
and only computers less than about 4 years old have TPM.
(You can't "enable" something that doesn't exist!)

2. Windows 11 only runs on recent CPU models (released within the last
4 years or so).

Both of those I consider show-stoppers, because my computers are
all 7-10 years old. If Microsoft doesn't fix those bugs, Windows 10
will be the last MS OS I use, and when MS stops supporting Windows 10,
I'll stop using Microsoft products completely and forever.

In preparation, I've already moved most of my computing operations to
Manjaro Linux.

--
Cheers,
Robbie Hatley
Midway City, CA, USA
perl -E 'say "\154o\156e\167o\154f\100w\145ll\56c\157m";'
https://www.facebook.com/robbie.hatley
https://people.well.com/user/lonewolf/

On 2/2/2022 8:48 AM, Robbie Hatley wrote:
>
> On 1/30/2022 5:19 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>
>> So, I only found this out from a pirate website, Microsoft don't  > bother telling you. Your computer will not get a Windows 11 upgrade
>> unless you have enabled TPM (trusted platform module) in your computer's BIOS.  Most computers have this switched off.
>
> It's much worse than that, actually. Windows 11 has these two huge bugs:
>
> 1. Windows 11 only runs on computers with TPM hardware and firmware,
>    and only computers less than about 4 years old have TPM.
>    (You can't "enable" something that doesn't exist!)
>
> 2. Windows 11 only runs on recent CPU models (released within the last
>    4 years or so).
>
> Both of those I consider show-stoppers, because my computers are
> all 7-10 years old. If Microsoft doesn't fix those bugs, Windows 10
> will be the last MS OS I use, and when MS stops supporting Windows 10,
> I'll stop using Microsoft products completely and forever.
>
> In preparation, I've already moved most of my computing operations to
> Manjaro Linux.
>
>

TPM chips have been around for longer than that.

The first ones might have been placed in business laptops.

The BIOS on the computer I'm typing on, is Dec2013,
and the motherboard has a TPM header. That means
TPM has been around for at least 8 years, and my motherboard
is definitely not the first one to have a header.

Remember, that the header concept was introduced, when
the community complained they would not buy computers
with TPM soldered to them. Making the TPM modules and
offering the header, was after the initial backlash.

Now, when I go here, what I see is not a surprise.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Platform_Module#TPM_implementations

"In 2006, new laptops began being sold with a built-in TPM chip."

That's fifteen years ago.

At the time, the TPM was considered to be an industry
trick for yet another DRM mechanism. Which is why
ordinary people did not want them soldered to the motherboard.

The two machines I own, still have the features I want,
in terms of breadth of usage. I can run "police state"
OSes or "non-police-state" OSes easily on the machines.

But retail motherboard design will not stay like this forever.
The intention is to turn our hardware into smartphones,
that is the target endpoint by Intel. The motherboard makers
try to soften the ideas that Intel presents. That's why
we got a single PCI card slot for our old PCI sound card
for so long. My new motherboard, no longer has a PCI slot,
and that removes some opportunities for me (can't use my
PCI FX5200 for flash upgrading more expensive PCIe video
cards). If I needed to re-work a video card purchased off
Ebay from a coin miner, I can no longer do that on the
new computer.

Paul

On Wed, 2 Feb 2022 05:48:43 -0800, Robbie Hatley
<see.my.signature@for.my.contact.info> wrote:

>
>On 1/30/2022 5:19 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>
>> So, I only found this out from a pirate website, Microsoft don't > bother telling you. Your computer will not get a Windows 11 upgrade
>> unless you have enabled TPM (trusted platform module) in your computer's
>> BIOS.  Most computers have this switched off.
>
>It's much worse than that, actually. Windows 11 has these two huge bugs:
>
>1. Windows 11 only runs on computers with TPM hardware and firmware,
> and only computers less than about 4 years old have TPM.
> (You can't "enable" something that doesn't exist!)
>
>2. Windows 11 only runs on recent CPU models (released within the last
> 4 years or so).
>
>Both of those I consider show-stoppers, because my computers are
>all 7-10 years old. If Microsoft doesn't fix those bugs,

You may not like them, but neither of those things are bugs. A bug is
something that doesn't work the way its specifications say it should
work.

>Windows 10
>will be the last MS OS I use, and when MS stops supporting Windows 10,
>I'll stop using Microsoft products completely and forever.

That's fine with me and with everyone else here. Nobody gives a shit
what operating system you run.

On 2/1/22 17:49, Commander Kinsey wrote:

[snip]

> I've never found a use for RAMdrives.  If you're using the disk a lot,
> it'll get cached anyway.

I once had a system that used a RAMdrive. It used 32-bit Windows XP on a
computer that claimed to allow a maximum of 4GB RAM but actually works
with 8. The RAMdrive used the other 4GB, that Windows wouldn't.

[snip]

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"I have only a small flickering light to guide me in the darkness of a
thick forest. Up comes a theologian and blows it out." -- Denis Diderot

+100

On 2022-02-02 10:05 a.m., Mark Lloyd wrote:
> On 2/1/22 17:49, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>> I've never found a use for RAMdrives.  If you're using the disk a lot,
>> it'll get cached anyway.
>
> I once had a system that used a RAMdrive. It used 32-bit Windows XP on a
> computer that claimed to allow a maximum of 4GB RAM but actually works
> with 8. The RAMdrive used the other 4GB, that Windows wouldn't.
>
> [snip]
>
occupied drive space , yay

On 2/2/2022 12:05 PM, Mark Lloyd wrote:
> On 2/1/22 17:49, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>> I've never found a use for RAMdrives.  If you're using the disk a lot, it'll get cached anyway.
>
> I once had a system that used a RAMdrive. It used 32-bit Windows XP on a computer that claimed to allow a maximum of 4GB RAM but actually works with 8. The RAMdrive used the other 4GB, that Windows wouldn't.
>
> [snip]
>

DataRAM RAMDisk does that.

But you need a certain version.

You can also place a pagefile.sys on it, and on an 8GB
machine, that allows Windows XP 32-bit to use 4GB, while the
other 4GB holds a pagefile. It has to be done in a certain
order, in order that it boot correctly. Paging that way,
is *buttery* smooth. You could run 5GB of programs, and
not even be aware you were swapping.

The only problem with putting the pagefile on the
software RAMDisk, is there can be mis-behaviors in
WinXP. Such as an application program starting and
running (as seen in Task Manager), yet there is
no window open in the desktop view. That's why I had
to stop using that trick. It mostly works, but it's
"not quite there" for a paging cheat.

The developer of the application, stopped presenting
that feature at some point, likely receiving a letter
from a Microsoft lawyer.

The reason this works, is the driver for the RAMDisk
lives in Ring0, and RIng0 has no memory license. it is
Ring3 where the memory license applies. Ring0 is kernel
country. And the kernel can access everything. The mechanism
is also enabled, via the existence of PAE, and the
default enablement of PAE in WinXP SP3.

Paul

On Tue, 1 Feb 2022 at 21:22:22, Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote
(my responses usually follow points raised):
>On Tue, 01 Feb 2022 12:33:26 -0000, Wolffan <akwolffan@zoho.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2022 Jan 31, Commander Kinsey wrote
>> (in article <op.1gvulhdemvhs6z@ryzen.lan>):
[]
>>> BTW, hardware doesn't break with software.
>>
>> It does if the drivers don’t work.
>
>Don't use ancient hardware, and never ever buy HP, you're lucky if that
>works on the intended OS!
>
>Anyway printers are a consumable item, they fall apart mechanically in a year.

A lot of modern ones do, agreed. (And a lot of modern ones, the driver
situation is such that you are lucky if you can find a combination of
OS, driver, and firmware that will run for more than a month or two.
(OK, exaggerating for effect.)

And most modern inkjet ones, the cartridges/ink channels block if you
don't use them for a day or two, and never really recover.

On the other hand, I know of several impact printers that I think will
outlast me. (OK, may need a drop of ink on the ribbon [though WD40 often
works].) [Impact: what everyone calls "dot matrix". But all (other than
golfball/daisywheel/line) print a matrix of dots.] Built like a tank,
they are. And - provided they have an EPSON emulation mode (usually ye
olde DIP switch inside somewhere), there's a driver for them in many
modern OSs. (Though you might have to get a USB/parallel port adapter!)
[]
>>> No updates wouldn't bother me. Stopping working would. But if all I've
>>> bypassed is security, that shouldn't stop it working surely?
>>
>> don’t know. not going to find out the hard way.
>
>It would appear the worst that will happen is a future update won't
>work. But you can get around that. Or not bother. Windows 11 without
>updates is newer than Windows 10 with updates.

It's not just an update not _working_, it's the possibility of an update
_breaking_ something. Which certainly isn't unknown! And if you take
(say) 11 and then no more updates to stop that happening, aren't you the
same as someone sticking with any given version of 10, or 7, or XP?
[]
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

You can believe it if it helps you to sleep. - Quoted by Tom Lehrer (on
religion, in passing), April 2013.
(Apparently he was quoting James Taylor's "Sweet Baby James".)

On Wed, 2 Feb 2022 18:52:23 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
<G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:

>On Tue, 1 Feb 2022 at 21:22:22, Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote
>(my responses usually follow points raised):
>>On Tue, 01 Feb 2022 12:33:26 -0000, Wolffan <akwolffan@zoho.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2022 Jan 31, Commander Kinsey wrote
>>> (in article <op.1gvulhdemvhs6z@ryzen.lan>):
>[]
>>>> BTW, hardware doesn't break with software.
>>>
>>> It does if the drivers don’t work.
>>
>>Don't use ancient hardware, and never ever buy HP, you're lucky if that
>>works on the intended OS!
>>
>>Anyway printers are a consumable item, they fall apart mechanically in a year.
>
>A lot of modern ones do, agreed.

??? Not in my experience. I've never had a printer that failed
anywhere near that quickly.

And if a printer I had failed, it could almost always be repaired for
much less money than buying a new one. I'm never seen one that "fell
apart."

My current printer is a Brother HL-L2300D Monochrome Laser Printer
with Duplex Printing. I've had it for about three years with no
problems.

My wife has a Canon imageCLASS LBP6000 Compact Laser Printer. She's
had it for about eight years with no problems.

I like mine much more than hers. I've been waiting for hers to fail so
I can replace it with one like mine, but it doesn't oblige me.

>(And a lot of modern ones, the driver
>situation is such that you are lucky if you can find a combination of
>OS, driver, and firmware that will run for more than a month or two.
>(OK, exaggerating for effect.)

Exaggerating a lot. The only issue, and only with some printers, is
that if you switch operating systems, you may not be able to find a
driver for the new operating system.

>And most modern inkjet ones, the cartridges/ink channels block if you
>don't use them for a day or two, and never really recover.

A day or two? More likely a month or two. And most recover easily if
you just replace the ink cartridges.

Yes, color lasers are substantially more expensive to buy than
inkjets, but the cost of using them (the cost of the ink cartridges)
is much less. And since I rarely need to print anything in color, I
stick with B&W lasers.

However inkjets do fail more often and more quickly than laser
printers and that's why I only use laser printers.

>On the other hand, I know of several impact printers that I think will
>outlast me. (OK, may need a drop of ink on the ribbon [though WD40 often
>works].) [Impact: what everyone calls "dot matrix".

Perhaps true, but they are much slower than lasers, the quality of the
print is much lower, and they require special paper. It's been about
35 years since I last had one. I'm glad to no longer have one.

On Wed, 2 Feb 2022 at 12:22:00, Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote
(my responses usually follow points raised):
>On Wed, 2 Feb 2022 18:52:23 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
><G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 1 Feb 2022 at 21:22:22, Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote
>>(my responses usually follow points raised):
>>>On Tue, 01 Feb 2022 12:33:26 -0000, Wolffan <akwolffan@zoho.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2022 Jan 31, Commander Kinsey wrote
>>>> (in article <op.1gvulhdemvhs6z@ryzen.lan>):
>>[]
>>>>> BTW, hardware doesn't break with software.
>>>>
>>>> It does if the drivers don’t work.
>>>
>>>Don't use ancient hardware, and never ever buy HP, you're lucky if that
>>>works on the intended OS!
>>>
>>>Anyway printers are a consumable item, they fall apart mechanically
>>>in a year.
>>
>>A lot of modern ones do, agreed.
>
>??? Not in my experience. I've never had a printer that failed
>anywhere near that quickly.

I'm with you, really. I just let "Commander Kinsey"'s "always use the
latest everything - if you use anything at all old, you're a lus3r"
attitude wind me up. I shouldn't have.
>
>And if a printer I had failed, it could almost always be repaired for
>much less money than buying a new one. I'm never seen one that "fell
>apart."

On the whole, I agree - or, you'd carry on with the broken bit.
>
>My current printer is a Brother HL-L2300D Monochrome Laser Printer
>with Duplex Printing. I've had it for about three years with no
>problems.
>
>My wife has a Canon imageCLASS LBP6000 Compact Laser Printer. She's
>had it for about eight years with no problems.

Mine's a Samsung CLP-775 - it's about a two-foot cube, and I suspect
heavier than it's safe for me to lift on my own.
>
>I like mine much more than hers. I've been waiting for hers to fail so
>I can replace it with one like mine, but it doesn't oblige me.
>
>
>>(And a lot of modern ones, the driver
>>situation is such that you are lucky if you can find a combination of
>>OS, driver, and firmware that will run for more than a month or two.
>>(OK, exaggerating for effect.)
>
>
>Exaggerating a lot. The only issue, and only with some printers, is
>that if you switch operating systems, you may not be able to find a
>driver for the new operating system.
>
Yes, you're right (though I think it has been known for W10 updates to
break them, though it's not common). It's the "no driver when you change
OS" thing that infuriates me - that and/or the printer makers and/or
Microsoft's refusal to do universal drivers (for at least printers and
scanners): OK, something that doesn't take advantage of special
properties that particular model has, but it still ought to be usable.
>
>>And most modern inkjet ones, the cartridges/ink channels block if you
>>don't use them for a day or two, and never really recover.
>
>
>A day or two? More likely a month or two. And most recover easily if
>you just replace the ink cartridges.

Again, I exaggerated for effect, perhaps too much. (It also depends
whether the print head is part of the cartridge, so is replaced when you
replace the cartridge, or not. Ideally, like some Xerox models, you have
replaceable ink tanks, but in an assembly - including the head - that is
itself replaceable. Generally, though, you only get user-replaceable
heads where they're resistive; piezo ones, as in EPSON - which, granted,
may give nicer results - usually aren't replaceable.)
>
>Yes, color lasers are substantially more expensive to buy than
>inkjets, but the cost of using them (the cost of the ink cartridges)
>is much less. And since I rarely need to print anything in color, I
>stick with B&W lasers.

I've had _two_ multifunction (i. e. with scanner) colour inkjets )a
Brother and an EPSON) dry up beyond repair (I was doing _very_ little
printing at the time). I think it _might_ be possible to retrieve the
Brother, but with a _lot_ of work, special cleaning cart.s, etcetera.
>
>However inkjets do fail more often and more quickly than laser
>printers and that's why I only use laser printers.
>
[I'm just dreading when I have to replace the toner/drum for my laser.
OK, the cost _per page_ is probably still lower, but the cost of the
cart/drum is still very high!]
>
>>On the other hand, I know of several impact printers that I think will
>>outlast me. (OK, may need a drop of ink on the ribbon [though WD40 often
>>works].) [Impact: what everyone calls "dot matrix".
>
>
>Perhaps true, but they are much slower than lasers, the quality of the
>print is much lower, and they require special paper. It's been about
>35 years since I last had one. I'm glad to no longer have one.

Long time since I did too. The quality can be quite good, but you have
to use them _very_ slowly to get it. you also didn't mention the noise
level (-: - doesn't bother me, but would most people! By special paper,
do you mean with sprocket holes? A lot of the later ones could use cut
sheets.

But I agree, I'd normally recommend a small modern mono laser printer
for most people, unless they _must_ have colour; if then, lasers still
cheaper in the long run, but the initial outlay (including spare toner)
_is_ noticeably higher.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Practicall every British actor with a bus pass is in there ...
Barry Norman (on "The Best Exotic Marigold Hotel" [2011]), RT 2015/12/12-18

On Wed, 02 Feb 2022 16:18:35 -0000, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:

> On 2/2/2022 8:48 AM, Robbie Hatley wrote:
>>
>> On 1/30/2022 5:19 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>
>>> So, I only found this out from a pirate website, Microsoft don't > bother telling you. Your computer will not get a Windows 11 upgrade
>>> unless you have enabled TPM (trusted platform module) in your computer's BIOS. Most computers have this switched off.
>>
>> It's much worse than that, actually. Windows 11 has these two huge bugs:
>>
>> 1. Windows 11 only runs on computers with TPM hardware and firmware,
>> and only computers less than about 4 years old have TPM.
>> (You can't "enable" something that doesn't exist!)
>>
>> 2. Windows 11 only runs on recent CPU models (released within the last
>> 4 years or so).
>>
>> Both of those I consider show-stoppers, because my computers are
>> all 7-10 years old. If Microsoft doesn't fix those bugs, Windows 10
>> will be the last MS OS I use, and when MS stops supporting Windows 10,
>> I'll stop using Microsoft products completely and forever.
>>
>> In preparation, I've already moved most of my computing operations to
>> Manjaro Linux.
>>
>>
>
> TPM chips have been around for longer than that.
>
> The first ones might have been placed in business laptops.
>
> The BIOS on the computer I'm typing on, is Dec2013,
> and the motherboard has a TPM header. That means
> TPM has been around for at least 8 years, and my motherboard
> is definitely not the first one to have a header.
>
> Remember, that the header concept was introduced, when
> the community complained they would not buy computers
> with TPM soldered to them. Making the TPM modules and
> offering the header, was after the initial backlash.
>
> Now, when I go here, what I see is not a surprise.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Platform_Module#TPM_implementations
>
> "In 2006, new laptops began being sold with a built-in TPM chip."
>
> That's fifteen years ago.
>
> At the time, the TPM was considered to be an industry
> trick for yet another DRM mechanism. Which is why
> ordinary people did not want them soldered to the motherboard.
>
> The two machines I own, still have the features I want,
> in terms of breadth of usage. I can run "police state"
> OSes or "non-police-state" OSes easily on the machines.
>
> But retail motherboard design will not stay like this forever.
> The intention is to turn our hardware into smartphones,
> that is the target endpoint by Intel. The motherboard makers
> try to soften the ideas that Intel presents. That's why
> we got a single PCI card slot for our old PCI sound card
> for so long. My new motherboard, no longer has a PCI slot,
> and that removes some opportunities for me (can't use my
> PCI FX5200 for flash upgrading more expensive PCIe video
> cards). If I needed to re-work a video card purchased off
> Ebay from a coin miner, I can no longer do that on the
> new computer.

A computer ans a smartphone are not the same thing. You might aswell compare a car and a bicycle.

On Wed, 02 Feb 2022 16:23:22 -0000, Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:

> On Wed, 2 Feb 2022 05:48:43 -0800, Robbie Hatley
> <see.my.signature@for.my.contact.info> wrote:
>
>> On 1/30/2022 5:19 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>
>>> So, I only found this out from a pirate website, Microsoft don't > bother telling you. Your computer will not get a Windows 11 upgrade
>>> unless you have enabled TPM (trusted platform module) in your computer's
>>> BIOS. Most computers have this switched off.
>>
>> It's much worse than that, actually. Windows 11 has these two huge bugs:
>>
>> 1. Windows 11 only runs on computers with TPM hardware and firmware,
>> and only computers less than about 4 years old have TPM.
>> (You can't "enable" something that doesn't exist!)
>>
>> 2. Windows 11 only runs on recent CPU models (released within the last
>> 4 years or so).
>>
>> Both of those I consider show-stoppers, because my computers are
>> all 7-10 years old. If Microsoft doesn't fix those bugs,
>
>
> You may not like them, but neither of those things are bugs. A bug is
> something that doesn't work the way its specifications say it should
> work.

You're not right in the head. Windows not working on something over 4 years old is a bug, because it doesn't work as it should.

Let's say I designed a car and my design said it would explode if you turned left three times in a row. That is still a bug, even though it's doing what I designed it to do, because nobody in their right mind would want a car to do that.

On Wed, 02 Feb 2022 13:48:43 -0000, Robbie Hatley <see.my.signature@for.my.contact.info> wrote:

>
> On 1/30/2022 5:19 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>
>> So, I only found this out from a pirate website, Microsoft don't > bother telling you. Your computer will not get a Windows 11 upgrade
>> unless you have enabled TPM (trusted platform module) in your computer's
>> BIOS. Most computers have this switched off.
>
> It's much worse than that, actually. Windows 11 has these two huge bugs:
>
> 1. Windows 11 only runs on computers with TPM hardware and firmware,
> and only computers less than about 4 years old have TPM.
> (You can't "enable" something that doesn't exist!)
>
> 2. Windows 11 only runs on recent CPU models (released within the last
> 4 years or so).
>
> Both of those I consider show-stoppers, because my computers are
> all 7-10 years old. If Microsoft doesn't fix those bugs, Windows 10
> will be the last MS OS I use, and when MS stops supporting Windows 10,
> I'll stop using Microsoft products completely and forever.
>
> In preparation, I've already moved most of my computing operations to
> Manjaro Linux.

I've found a way. I've actually got an old DDR2 machine running it right now.

Don't bother with the regedit bullshit "approved by Microsoft", it doesn't work. Quite why they approve something but don't just make it an "are you sure" button is anyone's guess.

Go here:
https://www.tomshardware.com/how-to/bypass-windows-11-tpm-requirement

Scroll down to the heading "How to Bypass Windows 11 TPM Check From Windows Update" and follow the instructions to paste something into a bat file.

You then also need to go back to the top and do the Rufus thing with a flash drive (which by the way only needs to be 8GB, not 16GB).