Lewis <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> asked
> The OS has been very stable all along since the first developer beta;
> bugs have mostly been display issues or functionality issues, not
> crashes.

The bugs that matter you will never see because they're zero-day bugs.

The fact is *Apple has _never_ sufficiently tested _any_ iOS release*.

There's no reason to believe Apple suddenly started testing at iOS 15.
--
Nobody spends LESS in R&D in high tech than Apple (nor more in MARKETING).

nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> asked
>> Security researchers at Citizen Lab have discovered an exploit that they
>> believe has been used by government clients of NSO Group, the Israeli
>> spyware company, to silently hack into iPhones and other Apple devices
>> since February 2021.
>
> also android devices.

It's amazing how apologists always blame everyone but Apple for Apple bugs.

In your desperation to blame anyone but Apple, perhaps you missed that the
link badgolferman posted, & the quote you requoted, was an iMessage target.
*Israeli spyware firm targeted Apple devices via iMessage*
<https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/sep/13/nso-group-iphones-apple-devices-hack-patch>

Why are the apologists so *desperate to blame Android for Apple flaws*?

What's worse, is, yet again, Apple screwed up royally in that this exploit
used the same approach as a "previous attack", according to the article.

Yet again, Apple proves to have almost zero QA of the iOS software product.
--
One reason Apple's profits are so high is that Apple's R&D is extremely low.

On 2021-09-14 06:25, badgolferman wrote:
> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>> On 2021-09-13 16:08, badgolferman wrote:
>>> Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> wrote:
>>>> https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT212807 for v14.8's release notes.
>>>>
>>>> Next, v15? ;)
>>>
>>> After the csam debacle I’m suspicious of any future updates slipping that
>>> back door
>>
>> You should be suspicious of your critical reading abilities. Someone
>> writes "backdoor" and you chomp down, hook, line and sinker.
>>
>> Ironically this is a security update to prevent a spyware attack.
>>
>
> Look at it how you want, but when I see news reports like this I don’t
> appreciate Apple purposely introduce ways for governments to continue
> hacking into your phone.
>
> Security researchers at Citizen Lab have discovered an exploit that they
> believe has been used by government clients of NSO Group, the Israeli

Which is what 14.8 addresses. Kind of whooshed over your head I guess....

--
"...there are many humorous things in this world; among them the white
man's notion that he is less savage than the other savages."
-Samuel Clemens

On 2021-09-14 06:44, badgolferman wrote:
> nospam wrote:
>
>>> The discovery, which was made as the researchers were examining
>>> the mobile phone of a Saudi activist, was shared with Apple, which
>>> on Monday released a patch to fix the vulnerability.
>>
>> if you're concerned about someone using the exploit in what is a
>> targeted attack, then update so that it's patched.
>
>
> If that "back door" gets introduced

No "back door" was proposed. Again, it being labeled such doesn't make
it such.

You're intelligent.

I just labeled you that. Doesn't make you that. By all the evidence
anyway.

--
"...there are many humorous things in this world; among them the white
man's notion that he is less savage than the other savages."
-Samuel Clemens

Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
> On 2021-09-14 06:44, badgolferman wrote:
>> nospam wrote:
>>
>>>> The discovery, which was made as the researchers were examining
>>>> the mobile phone of a Saudi activist, was shared with Apple, which
>>>> on Monday released a patch to fix the vulnerability.
>>>
>>> if you're concerned about someone using the exploit in what is a
>>> targeted attack, then update so that it's patched.
>>
>>
>> If that "back door" gets introduced
>
> No "back door" was proposed. Again, it being labeled such doesn't make
> it such.
>
> You're intelligent.
>
> I just labeled you that. Doesn't make you that. By all the evidence
> anyway.
>
>

I guess it all comes down to how you want to look at it. You are willing to
believe anything Apple tells you despite ample evidence they are not always
honest…and I would rather trust my own intuition and deductive reasoning of
what is bound to happen based on past experience.

By the way, I am an aerospace engineer and operate satellites so I have
some sense of logic and future planning. One could say my work is above
your head…

In article <shqu4t$q78$1@dont-email.me>, badgolferman
<REMOVETHISbadgolferman@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> I guess it all comes down to how you want to look at it. You are willing to
> believe anything Apple tells you despite ample evidence they are not always
> honestŠ

what 'ample evidence' is that?

badgolferman <REMOVETHISbadgolferman@gmail.com> asked
>>if you're concerned about someone using the exploit in what is a
>>targeted attack, then update so that it's patched.
>
> If that "back door" gets introduced there will be no end to the patches
> required to control it. It's a meaty feature hackers can't wait to get
> their hooks onto. And you know they will always find a way in
> regardless of what Apple says because that's what always happens.

Hi badgolferman,

Why is it you know, what everyone knows, and yet, the apologists don't?

What's so _different_ about the apologists that they can't comprehend
what's sure to happen time and time again (and again, and again)?

Everyone will target these backdoors - and many will get in.
Why don't the apologists (or Apple) realize that is a basic fact?
--
One reason for Apple's ungodly profits is nobody spends LESS in R&D.

Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> asked
> No "back door" was proposed. Again, it being labeled such doesn't make
> it such.

Can Alan Browne find even a _single_ cite on the Internet that isn't paid
for by Apple that backs up his unorthodox view that a backdoor isn't a
backdoor if Alan Browne says it isn't?

What?
Alan Browne can't find even a _single_ site on the planet that backs him up?

If Alan Browne can't find even a _single_ cite on the entire Internet that
backs up his unorthodox view that the two new backdoors aren't backdoors...

What does that say about Alan Browne's ability to comprehend facts?
--
The only people saying it's not a backdoor are Apple & the apologists.

On 9/13/2021 10:44 AM, Ant wrote:
> https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT212807 for v14.8's release notes.
>
> Next, v15? ;)

Hmm, what about 14.9?

"Apple also has a massive backlog of bugs that it hasn’t fixed,
according to the former employee and a current employee, who also spoke
on the condition of anonymity because of an NDA."

"The unfriendly nature of its bug bounty program has discouraged some
security researchers from pointing out flaws to Apple, these people
said. That’s prompted some to sell them to “gray market” customers like
government agencies or companies that sell sophisticated hacking
services, or go public without notifying Apple, which could put
customers at risk."

From
<https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2021/09/09/apple-bug-bounty/>.

badgolferman <REMOVETHISbadgolferman@gmail.com> asked
> I guess it all comes down to how you want to look at it.

The apologists want to always defend Apple no matter what the cost.

> You are willing to
> believe anything Apple tells you despite ample evidence they are not always
> honest�K

The ample evidence is bulletproof that: *Nobody lies like Apple lies*.
(Apple paid over a billion dollars alone last year for some of those lies.)

> and I would rather trust my own intuition and deductive reasoning of
> what is bound to happen based on past experience.

The entire world, outside of Apple & the apologists, shares your logic.
> By the way, I am an aerospace engineer and operate satellites so I have
> some sense of logic and future planning. One could say my work is above
> your head�K

Indeed.

I think of all the apologists though, nospam is the _least_ ignorant.
--
Yes, I know. That's not saying much. They are apologists after all.

In article <shqv5b$qq$1@dont-email.me>, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
wrote:

> "Apple also has a massive backlog of bugs that it hasn¹t fixed,
> according to the former employee and a current employee, who also spoke
> on the condition of anonymity because of an NDA."

that describes every software company.

nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> asked
>> I guess it all comes down to how you want to look at it. You are willing to
>> believe anything Apple tells you despite ample evidence they are not always
>> honest�
>
> what 'ample evidence' is that?

It's amazing that Apple paid over a billion dollars last year alone for
their public lies to just about everyone, and yet, this nospam is completely
_ignorant_ of why Apple paid those fines & settlements for those lies.

It wouldn't matter if a mountain of evidence of cites were provided.

This nospam & apologist will _always_ be ignorant of facts everyone knows.
--
APple paid a criminal fine to the French prosecutors and Apple settled with
34 US states over their lies about the release notes and throttling lies.

Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> asked
>> Security researchers at Citizen Lab have discovered an exploit that they
>> believe has been used by government clients of NSO Group, the Israeli
>
> Which is what 14.8 addresses. Kind of whooshed over your head I guess....

The reason iOS is so insecure is simply that Apple doesn't invest in iOS QA.

What's revealing is that Alan Browne thinks that this fix solves all the iOS
zero-day holes now and in the future, without realizing _why_ it existed.

Do any of these apologists like Alan Browne own even a grain of logic?

The fact it was publicly exploited and that Apple has so many zero day holes
that hackers stopped accepting them - doesn't impinge on these apologists'
lack of logic.
--
The reason iOS is so insecure is simply that Apple doesn't invest in iOS QA.

nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> asked
>> "Apple also has a massive backlog of bugs that it hasn�t fixed,
>> according to the former employee and a current employee, who also spoke
>> on the condition of anonymity because of an NDA."
>
> that describes every software company.

No nospam.
I get it that you blame every software company for Apple's flaws.

What you don't understand is Apple merely advertises that iOS is secure,
and, for some strange reason, that works for Apple (with their user base).

But intelligent people are aware that there are so many zero-day bugs in iOS
that the hackers stopped accepting them. The flaws in iOS are immense.

*There are huge swaths of iOS code that has _never been tested_ nospam.*
That's how little Apple cares about iOS software QA.
--
Nobody in high tech spends LESS than does Apple on Research & Development.

nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> asked
> welcome to software on all platforms.

The apologists blame everyone but Apple for iOS's huge number of bugs.
*It's only Apple where hackers have stopped accepting iOS zero-day bugs*.

Apple _never_ finds their own zero-day bugs - they let others find them for
them, which means the number of unknown zero day bugs is likely tremendous.

Never forget there's nobody in high tech who spends _less_ on R&D than
Apple.
--
Apple is all marketing and almost no R&D (which garners them high profits).

On 9/14/2021 1:09 PM, Robin Goodfellow wrote:

<snip>

> The reason iOS is so insecure is simply that Apple doesn't invest in iOS QA.

Not sure that throwing more money at software testing would address the
problem. It's hard to find these bugs until the software is out being
used by millions of people.

Steve Jobs once stated, “Innovation has nothing to do with how many R&D
dollars you have. It's not about money. It's about the people you have,
how you're led, and how much you get it.”

However it is true, that as a percentage of sales, Apple's expenditures
on R&D are small (7%), compared 13.0% for Nicrosoft, 15.1% for Google,
and 21.0% for Facebook.

In article <shr0v6$dba$1@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

> However it is true, that as a percentage of sales, Apple's expenditures
> on R&D are small (7%), compared 13.0% for Nicrosoft, 15.1% for Google,
> and 21.0% for Facebook.

that's because apple's sales are much higher.

what matters is the actual dollar amount for r&d, not percentage.

On 2021-09-14 16:39, nospam wrote:
> In article <shr0v6$dba$1@dont-email.me>, sms
> <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>
>> However it is true, that as a percentage of sales, Apple's expenditures
>> on R&D are small (7%), compared 13.0% for Nicrosoft, 15.1% for Google,
>> and 21.0% for Facebook.
>
> that's because apple's sales are much higher.
>
> what matters is the actual dollar amount for r&d, not percentage.

There's also a limit to how much R&D you can do, period, with any
reasonable expectation of return. Throwing PhD's and engineers at
things w/o good reason would be silly.

--
"...there are many humorous things in this world; among them the white
man's notion that he is less savage than the other savages."
-Samuel Clemens

On 2021-09-14 15:45, badgolferman wrote:
> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>> On 2021-09-14 06:44, badgolferman wrote:
>>> nospam wrote:
>>>
>>>>> The discovery, which was made as the researchers were examining
>>>>> the mobile phone of a Saudi activist, was shared with Apple, which
>>>>> on Monday released a patch to fix the vulnerability.
>>>>
>>>> if you're concerned about someone using the exploit in what is a
>>>> targeted attack, then update so that it's patched.
>>>
>>>
>>> If that "back door" gets introduced
>>
>> No "back door" was proposed. Again, it being labeled such doesn't make
>> it such.
>>
>> You're intelligent.
>>
>> I just labeled you that. Doesn't make you that. By all the evidence
>> anyway.
>>
>>
>
> I guess it all comes down to how you want to look at it. You are willing to
> believe anything Apple tells you despite ample evidence they are not always
> honest…and I would rather trust my own intuition and deductive reasoning of
> what is bound to happen based on past experience.

What have they done that was deliberately dishonest?

>
> By the way, I am an aerospace engineer and operate satellites so I have
> some sense of logic and future planning. One could say my work is above
> your head…

You'd be surprised how closely we orbit.

But where computers and "what a backdoor" is, you bit the headlines w/o
critical thinking at all.

--
"...there are many humorous things in this world; among them the white
man's notion that he is less savage than the other savages."
-Samuel Clemens

In article <%Y70J.120596$o45.78293@fx46.iad>, Alan Browne
<bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:

> >> However it is true, that as a percentage of sales, Apple's expenditures
> >> on R&D are small (7%), compared 13.0% for Nicrosoft, 15.1% for Google,
> >> and 21.0% for Facebook.
> >
> > that's because apple's sales are much higher.
> >
> > what matters is the actual dollar amount for r&d, not percentage.
>
> There's also a limit to how much R&D you can do, period, with any
> reasonable expectation of return. Throwing PhD's and engineers at
> things w/o good reason would be silly.

that too.

the point is the percentage is small because the denominator is very
big.

In message <shqv5b$qq$1@dont-email.me> sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
> "Apple also has a massive backlog of bugs that it hasn’t fixed,
> according to the former employee and a current employee, who also spoke
> on the condition of anonymity because of an NDA."

> "The unfriendly nature of its bug bounty program has discouraged some
> security researchers from pointing out flaws to Apple, these people
> said. That’s prompted some to sell them to “gray market” customers like
> government agencies or companies that sell sophisticated hacking
> services, or go public without notifying Apple, which could put
> customers at risk."

Microsoft has known about the critical Outlook flaws fore over a year.
they didn't bother to fix them, ort of, until they were publicly
exposed.

Microsoft has know about their print spooler issues for DECADES. They
have failed to fix them, and no describe them as "insecure by design"
and offer no reasonable mitigation.

Android "security" is a bad joke that is easily bypassed by anyone with
access to google for a few minutes. and anyone with physical access to
the device.

Yes, Apple was late to the bug bounty program and it still goes very much
against how they think of the company. These things have to be around
long enough to replace the institutional mindset that prevented them
being implemented in the first place, but at least Apple isn't sitting
on them for years and years and then saying "Yeah, fuck you all, we're
not fixing that. Not now, not ever. Suck it."

--
Tina... homecoming is spelled c *O* m

In message <N_70J.120597$o45.30728@fx46.iad> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
> On 2021-09-14 15:45, badgolferman wrote:

>> I guess it all comes down to how you want to look at it. You are willing to
>> believe anything Apple tells you despite ample evidence they are not always
>> honest…and I would rather trust my own intuition and deductive reasoning of
>> what is bound to happen based on past experience.

> What have they done that was deliberately dishonest?

Nothing, he's trolling bullshit. Again.

--
"Are you pondering what I'm pondering?"
"Well, I think so hiccup, but Kevin Costner with an English accent?"

In message <pi60J.82841$Kv2.29969@fx47.iad> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
> On 2021-09-14 06:25, badgolferman wrote:
>> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>>> On 2021-09-13 16:08, badgolferman wrote:
>>>> Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> wrote:
>>>>> https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT212807 for v14.8's release notes.
>>>>>
>>>>> Next, v15? ;)
>>>>
>>>> After the csam debacle I’m suspicious of any future updates slipping that
>>>> back door
>>>
>>> You should be suspicious of your critical reading abilities. Someone
>>> writes "backdoor" and you chomp down, hook, line and sinker.
>>>
>>> Ironically this is a security update to prevent a spyware attack.
>>>
>>
>> Look at it how you want, but when I see news reports like this I don’t
>> appreciate Apple purposely introduce ways for governments to continue
>> hacking into your phone.
>>
>> Security researchers at Citizen Lab have discovered an exploit that they
>> believe has been used by government clients of NSO Group, the Israeli

And which they cannot even detect on Android because the security on
android is so complete shit it is incapable of showing if it is
infected.

--
YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN
THEY BECOME? --Hogfather

In message <140920211639063326%nospam@nospam.invalid> nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> In article <shr0v6$dba$1@dont-email.me>, sms
> <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

>> However it is true, that as a percentage of sales, Apple's expenditures
>> on R&D are small (7%), compared 13.0% for Nicrosoft, 15.1% for Google,
>> and 21.0% for Facebook.

> that's because apple's sales are much higher.

> what matters is the actual dollar amount for r&d, not percentage.

What matters is how effective the R&D is ate developing new products,
patents, and improvements to existing products and technology.

--
"If you want to get rich from writing, write the sort of thing that's
read by persons who move their lips when they're reading to
themselves." - Don Marquis

On 2021-09-14, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> In article <shqu4t$q78$1@dont-email.me>, badgolferman
><REMOVETHISbadgolferman@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> I guess it all comes down to how you want to look at it. You are
>> willing to believe anything Apple tells you despite ample evidence
>> they are not always honestŠ
>
> what 'ample evidence' is that?

All of his feelyfeels. Tons of them!

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR